America murdered Roger Fortson. He was murdered by Congress who refuses to pass any law that spots police brutality or any hate crime against black people. He was murdered by white Americans who look the other way while countless crimes and racism are committed against blacks daily. And he was murdered by black Americans who refused to vote and sit on the sidelines while black men are gunned down daily across this country. We'll discuss race and how it plays a factor and how we didn't even talk about this topic because we were afraid.

A Black Executive Perspective.

Welcome to a Black Executive Perspective podcast, a safe space where we discuss all matters related to race, especially race in corporate America. I'm your host, Tony Tidbit.

And I'm your co-host, Chris p Reed.

So again, we wanna thank our partners here at the University of New Haven, WNHU 88.7 on the Richter Dial. Thank you for your partnership, allowing a Black executive Perspective podcast to come in and talk about a serious topic.

And also, we don't wanna forget to shout out our partners at Code M Magazine, whose mission is saving the black family by first saving the black man. Check 'em out@codemmagazine.com. That's code M two M magazine.com.

That's right, definitely check them out. And speaking of that, we're going to talk about an article that Code M magazine wrote for their June, uh, uh, monthly, uh, publication. Um, and that, that article, it's about Roger Fortson, a young Black airman who was fatally shot by the police at his own home. We're joined by Brad Bowling, who's the president of Code M magazine, who's here to talk about his compelling article, Murdered by America. We'll We will discuss the devastating escalation from a simple noise complaint to a fatal misunderstanding. We'll examine the systemic issues of police brutality and racial profiling that contributed to this tragedy and also play, pay homage to Roger's life and inspirations. Brad Bowling, president of Code M magazine. Welcome to a Black Executive Perspective podcast, my brother.

Thank you, Tony and Chris. It's a pleasure to be here.

Well, thank you, my man. And listen, I got to give you a lot of credit. Um, the article that you wrote murdered in America about Roger Fordson was, you know, very, um, you know, really bothered me, um, in terms of what happened to that young man. How it transpired, but we want to dive in today in terms of your perspective, how you wrote it, and we want to get a better understanding in terms of not just what happened, but also who he was. And then more importantly, you know, how do we move forward as a society to stop these tragic events from moving forward? All right. So are you ready to talk about it?

Let's go.

All right, buddy. Let's talk about it.

So, so Brad, the 1 thing I wanted to get across was how this all began. Like, the reason that we're here is obviously for tragic. This tragic incident occurred and it brought us here to speak on it. So give me your perspective on how the incident unfolded. And give us a little bit of Roger's story.

So basically Roger Fortson, uh, is a 23 year, was a 23 year old us, uh, air servicemen who arrived home, uh, 30 minutes prior to the incident. He was FaceTime and his girlfriend, when he heard a knock at the door, the knock at the door was a, a sheriff officer who is responding to a noise complaint and ended up going to the wrong apartment. And as he knocked on the door, As Roger was alerted to this, he went, looked through the peephole. He didn't see anyone. He went back, sat down, heard a second knock. And out of abundance of precaution, he grabbed a service weapon to make sure he wasn't being robbed or, you know, um, assaulted, answered the door with the service weapon down at his side. As he opened the door before the sheriff said anything to him, he shot him six times. ultimately killing him. He died at the hospital. Uh, and so since this is just another example of black men under attack in America, I wanted to write the article because we need to revisit the conversation on, is it safe to call the police anymore? You know, how do we respond to the police? I'll just keep it at that. I'll keep it at that.

You know, let me, I want to read, uh, the beginning of your piece because you say something that, um, for a person who may not have known the story, but read your article, they would probably be like, wow. All right. So let me, let me, let me just read this. You says in your article, and I quote, America murdered Roger Fortson. He was murdered by Congress who refuses to pass any law that spots police brutality or any hate crime against black people. He was murdered by white Americans who look the other way while countless crimes and racism are committed against blacks daily. And he was murdered by black Americans who refuse to vote And sit on the sidelines while black men are gunned down daily across this country. So tell us a little bit in terms of the thought process when you said he was murdered by America and you pretty much included You know, every aspect of American life.

Yes. You know, Tony, Roger Fortson was an American hero. He was the kind of son that every father could be a proud of. Whether you were white, black, Asian, uh, Mexican, he, he was the Patriot we need right now in America. You know, he loved his country and we need young men like him. Uh, because he, he, he was on a path to become whatever he wanted to be. His life was cut short. By circumstances beyond his control, but at the same time. Were they so look at Congress when the Asians were being harassed in the country? We passed an anti asian bill right away.

Mm

hmm But we don't do that for blacks. So Congress is slow to act. We've had police profiling in this country forever But yet we do not have any laws in the books to protect us from police profiling. There is no protocol that police need to follow when dealing with us. Um, if you take a look at white people, you know, if you can, if white people continue to turn and look the other way, acting like, Hey, since this doesn't bother me, I don't have to be involved. If you're not upset because this American hero was gunned down, your child might be next. And then what are you doing to support this? And when I say support it, I mean, what are you doing to change the behavior of society? And then finally, I'm mad at our brothers and sisters who don't go vote, you know, who aren't joining the urban league, who aren't joining the, uh, you know, uh, NAACP, who aren't. You know, going to different organizational meetings to make sure that their voice is heard, or at least their vote is counted in the right direction. So then we can have the power to affect law change. So, yes, everybody's a culprit.

I think it, it comes off as incendiary for you to, you know, uh, Blame or, or, or put the onus on America itself. And I think that was a powerful statement. I'm sure it was by design. My question to you is one of the things that's come to light for us as, as black males, for sure, is that a lot of this stuff has been going on for a long time. It's this footage, this video evidence that is allowing for us to have more insight and more people to see kind of the lives that we've lived for so long. So what do you say about the body cam footage? In this and how things weren't done immediate, you know, based off of the evidence that was provided. And then also the people that are affected closely, which were his folks, his parents, his friends, loved ones, and things of that nature. What was their reaction to some of these things? How hard is that? Yeah.

So, you know, the video evidence is, is condemning, right? You can't unsee it. Once you see it, it was just as bad as watching George Floyd get murdered.

Right?

Um, and so when you watch the young man, open the door. There was no conversation. There was no de escalation. There was no, there was nothing. As soon as he saw him, he shot him. As soon as he saw the gun in his hand. Now we all understand that police need to come home at night. We respect police officers. I have police officers in my family. My uncle's a detective. I have family who serve in the military. I have respect for the police. But you know, the one thing that Mrs Fortson said as we interviewed her, you know, we can no longer tell our Children that the police are here to protect and serve. That's just not true for black people. So we can no longer lie to our children that they can expect a positive encounter if they do go to the police. You know, if we have a child with a mental issue and they're acting out, you know, we can no longer call the police to calm that child down because our sons are being murdered. you know, when they're having an episode or they're having an attack or they're having some type of anxiety, anxiety attack, you know, we need an alternative to calling the police because our kids are being gunned down unjustly without cause. Uh, and then the repercussions sometimes are not fair for the people who are, who are harming our kids. So, you know, his family was devastated. Roger Fortson was the third born out of five. He was the pillar of his community. He graduated high school with honors. And so, you know, he represented black America well, and we, you know, we lost, you know, a representation of us, the best of us. And so, you know, I have a 25 year old son. I have a 19 year old son. They're both bright young man. They speak well. They're Roger Fortson.

Right.

So if Roger, who did everything right, can't get any respect, what do I tell my two sons?

Right, right. You know, one of the things, and I love, and again, if I'm talking to our audience, if you have not read this article, you need to go to Code M Magazine and read it because, um, As Chris stated, very powerful, um, as Brad has been talking about, really diving into the, the issues, but not just the issues, the fear, alright? In terms of what happens to, to African American males when it comes to the police. But you wrote this, and I wanna go to this, and you just spoke to it a little bit. And I quote, Black fathers in America are starting to prepare for the fact that it's not a matter of if, but a matter of time when they or their sons will have to deal with some type of police profiling. Black men used to be able to consider that if they went to school. Picked the right path of a career, spoke proper English, and lived a certain lifestyle that they would somehow avoid the typical police black man interaction that is seen played out all repeatedly. You stated just a few minutes ago, Fortson was different. He graduated from high school and he fit that profile. But he still was gunned down in his home. Talk a little bit about that, my brother.

You know, it's, it's devastating, uh, because again, it's not a matter of if it's a matter of when our children, our young men, and even us, you know, I know we're, we're all above 40, but it's not a matter of if it's a matter of when, and what you have to pray at this point is that your son will survive the encounter. Now that is a horrible proposition to have to live with is that you can't do anything to protect your child. Your child could be doing everything right. He could be in the right community. Robert Fortune wasn't in the hood. He was in, he was in a nice apartment building paying 18, 2, 000 a month. You know, the, the, the apartment building he lived in was 80 percent military guys, 80 percent military. Why didn't the sheriff? Take that into account when he went to the house, why didn't he have some respect and some patience and show some grace as he went because nine times out of 10, he probably was going to call in a service member, active service member. So he walked to the apartment building knowing it's 80 percent because that's where he lives. That's what he serves. He knew that apartment building was service members, but yet he still went, didn't deescalate. Didn't have a conversation. So I don't know what to do at this point. So the article was written out of frustration, Chris, you are corrected. It is in it. I need to get people off the fence. The goal is to get people off the fence, to have a discussion about this, to figure out what can we do, because this is everybody's problem. And that's why I wrote it from the perspective that America murdered him, because this is America. This is an American problem. This is not a white, it's not a black, it's an everybody everyday problem. And we've got to figure out a way because we're losing people. And, you know, I'm not, I don't want to sit here and Say that the other people were less human because they were gunned down because their backgrounds are not as exemplary as Rogers, right? I'm not saying that. So, you know, it's, it's just maddening because this young man had a future. He was doing everything right.

Let me dig in and take this in a, in a slightly different direction in the regard of what you just said. And I know that Tony is a veteran and I know my grandfather fought in, in World War II and one of the things that we hear time and time again is when people got back from over there, black folks. Got back from over there fighting for this country. They were still treated poorly. The V you know, people in Vietnam war, all this other kind of stuff. Is there a situation? Because I thought we had got to the point where, uh, thank you for your service and saluting our troops. And, and that type of respect could be, uh, cascaded onto us, or we could absorb some of that as black, you know, men and women, but I'm the guy in Virginia that got pulled over and harassed. Uh, and so why is the military? Is the military involved in this after all, or is there anything to do with, cause you said just earlier, he would have to, uh, approach somebody in the service that he didn't have the respect for that because of that person's skin color, all the respect was alleviated. From him actually being a, a, a server to our country, why is that not something that's even brought up at this point?

Well, you know, this is the, this is the reason why we're having this conversation, uh, because unfortunately, the color of his skin superseded anything that he did the young man that got pulled over for having temporary tags that the officer couldn't see. So this, the case you're talking about in Virginia where the, the, the guy was in uniform coming home from work, in

uniform, in uniform,

pulled over. They couldn't see the temporary tag in his SUV because of the tenant windows in the back, but they did not handle that with grace. There was no de escalation. And so the same thing with Roger, he didn't see uniform. Obviously he was not in uniform. Uh, but before he found out the character of this man, He shot him dead. And the problem that I have with that is that that could have been my 19 year old who goes to Mount Union and plays lacrosse. It could have been my 25 year old, you know, who went to school and is working and he's, he's just a decent young man and he's at the wrong place with the wrong officer with the wrong attitude. And now he's dead. And so, you know, I can't, I I can, I can't protect my sons. They're out there driving, they're living, they got girlfriends, they have jobs, they want to go to dinner, they want to do everything a typical American expects to be able to do without harm. And we no longer can guarantee that. So we need to have a divisive conversation about this. We need to get angry about this. There's no protest that can help this. There's no break in the mirror wall or glass that can that can do this. We must get out and vote. We got to join some organizations. We got to get in our politicians ears and we have to demand change.

So, so the thing about it is before we go, we have a clip that we want to play, but before we go to that clip, it's devastating for you to say. There's no such thing as being on base. There's no such thing as being safe. I think that what Tony was saying earlier is you check off these boxes and you do everything the right way. You're affiliated with the nation being a military officer. You go to school, you do this, you do that. So if there's not a place for us, cause that's what it sounds like underlying is what you're saying is no matter what you do, where you go, how you do it, there is no assured safety. There is no base for us to rest on and kind of, you know, just relax and lower our shoulders. We always have to be vigilant. We always have to be extra perceptive. And that's a miserable, miserable experience to have had. Uh, Noel, can you know, producer, can we play the clip that we have, uh, For the first clip,

deputy who shot and killed Senior Airman Roger Fortson has been terminated. The

Oglosa County Sheriff's Office revealing just an hour ago that Deputy Eddie Duran was fired following the completion of an internal investigation. The investigation determined Durand's use of deadly force was not objectively reasonable and therefore violated agency policy. This is separate from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement's investigation, which will determine if Durand should be criminally charged. On May 3rd, Durand was directed to Fortson's apartment by people at the complex who reported a disturbance. Durand knocked three times. When Fortson answered the door, he was holding a gun by his side. The sheriff's office says Duran confirmed that senior airman Fortson did not physically resist him, and the investigation concluded that Fortson did not point the gun at the deputy. Sheriff Eric Aydin said in a release, this tragic incident should have never occurred. The objective facts do not support the use of deadly force as an appropriate response to Mr. Fortson's actions. Mr. Fortson did not commit any crime by all accounts. He was an exceptional airman and individual.

Let me ask you a question, Brad, before I told Tony, you got a lot in this, but let me ask you this question because this is where insult has met injury. You know, how is it not automatic that, and I want to say, Obvious, um, so objectively reasonable that that the force was not exactly reasonable was deemed and it was in violation, direct violation of the policies. How does that not automatically equate to charges and how is this person allowed to exercise their freedoms after it has been determined that these things have been violated? So, this person is still walking around and, and, and being able to contemplate different avenues and things of that nature. Why isn't there something put in place for officers as you said, is that an act of Congress? Is that a local thing? What is it that has to happen for these people to have to be? Held accountable for some of these actions that are devastating to lives and families and communities.

That's a loaded question. Okay, and so we could almost have a whole nother podcast about how police were created what police represented through Jim Crow. post slavery, right? So we all, we all understand the role that the police had of returning slaves back to the slave owner back in, you know, the 16 to 1700s. Today, the police have a very, very strong organization. They lobby very heavily. They protect their own, uh, and so they want to move with an abundance of caution before they decide to terminate and then prosecute a police officer for doing his job. Now, I have nothing but the, but respect for the police.

Correct.

I understand their role and how hard it is. You know, police officers die in the line of duty on a daily basis in the United States. We understand that. So we're not. Sitting here is saying that, you know, we don't appreciate. The sacrifice that police officers make on a daily basis. What we're, what we're saying though, is that We need our police officers to view us as they do everyone else. You know, there are several examples of white people walking down the street with guns who were never murdered. White people who have committed crimes, murders, mass shootings, who were taken to get food afterwards. You know, white people who survived the encounter and are serving time in jail. White people who've blown up entire buildings, uh, who are sitting in jail today. And so I would have rather he listen, and I'm not saying that Robert George Fortson deserved anything, but I would have rather him been tased and has survived the encounter where the officer could apologize. Robert Fortson himself could have said, I forgive you because I'm a patriot because I understand the role you play because I one day want to be an officer because this is what I'm going for to. I'm a brother of yours, but he was not given that opportunity because because the police officer went in with. A preconception of what black people are, and he killed him. And so the question is, who are we hiring as police officers?

Well, here's the thing though, and I'm backing up a little bit guys, because, um, you know, obviously this, you know, makes us all upset. Okay? Like you said, it could happen to anybody. But here's the underlying issue. Okay? The underlying, and if you look at the clip, Okay, the body cam, the full body cam footage, okay? Um, and I'm going to say it just like it is. A lot of white people are afraid of black people, okay, especially black males. That's what this was about. This wasn't about all the stuff you just got done saying, Brad, in terms of procedure and stuff to that nature. This was about as soon as he saw him, okay, they'll, he didn't come with the gun. Like, the gun was already in a holster, so as soon as he saw them, he pulled the holster out and started shooting, because of his fear of black men. That's the issue here, okay? And now, to your point, and what you wrote in the article. You can take away some of the, the narratives that, you know, popular, uh, you know, certain individuals will say, Oh, he was a criminal or he was a drug dealer, or he was trying to, you know, come up with reasons why it was okay to, to kill somebody. He didn't, and let's be fair to the majority of people who face police brutality, don't fall into that, that, that segment either. But here's a, here's a a, a a, a, a, a military, you know, person that has an impeccable record. Here's an individual that had did nothing wrong, no criminal record, whatever case may be, he didn't even get a chance to say boo. So the issue is, is that the fear and this, this issue of fear has gone back for centuries. And if we really unpack it. And, and that's why I love what you wrote in the article, and I just read that excerpt. It doesn't matter what position you have. You can be a judge. You can be a major league, uh, a sports person. You could be a doctor. You can be anything. It doesn't matter how well you speak. It doesn't matter. What neighborhood you live in because those things didn't matter with Roger Fortson, okay? But the bottom line is what matters is is when somebody sees your skin And they're already, like you said a minute ago, have preconceived notions that this black person is a threat to me, regardless of where he lives at, what he does from a daily occupation, and then I need to attack him immediately for my own life. That's the issue, and we, you don't hear a lot of people talking about that, right? And that's not something to be fair. And I love to hear your point on this, that legislation can right away. All right, because that is a human fear that's been built up for centuries. And, and although Unfortunately, he lost his life, but in all walks of life, we deal with that fear in corporate America, in every industry, in terms of when white people perceive black people as a certain thing. Let me hear your thoughts on that.

Yeah, I mean, it's tragic. And you know, it's a part of the American fabric. There's not enough D. E. I. To fix it. We really need to get to the infrastructure of how police officers are trained. I, you know, they need to go through some type of sympathy training. I know that they live stressful lives, but they need to have empathy when they're out working. And we've got to find a way To retrain officers to view everybody as equal. And it starts with conversations like this, having these conversations out in the open, demanding a change, exposing, you know, the truth for what it is, is where we need to start. And so maybe he starts here and maybe this grows into a movement where, you know, we can affect change guys. Because something has to happen.

Yeah, it definitely has. Let's go into some of the broader aspects of this, right? And then I want to back up, and I want you to really talk about how his parents are doing, and more importantly, the person, okay? But you said something, you wrote it, how Black fathers or people of color, how they deal when they see these things, or watch them, or listen to them. The, the, the, uh, Overall effect that doesn't just go away. It lasts for a long period of time. So let's play the next clip. And I want to hear your thoughts on this.

This isn't the first time the public has seen footage of the deadly use of force against black people in California. Black people are over represented in police use of force incidents. The state's Public Policy Institute, saying they account for nearly 20 percent of serious injuries and fatalities, while only making up less than 6 percent of the population, Robinson says. In each case, he immediately thinks of the families.

This person is somebody's son. This is somebody's grandson. You know, I just go right there, you know, and, uh, I think of how tremendous a loss would be, um, in my family.

So what should think about that? So number one, let's just be clear. This is the state of California. Okay. So this is specific to California. 6 percent of the population of the state of California is black. However, if I remember the quote right, 20 something percent of the police brutality that happens is against people of color or black people, which really doesn't make any sense. Number two, as the brother stated, when you see all these things, the first thing you start thinking is, Hey, that was somebody's brother, that was somebody's father, that was somebody's cousin, that was somebody's nephew, and that could happen to my, that could happen to my family. So talk a little bit about the overarching systemic issues from a mental health standpoint.

So, you know, I talked to his mother at length, uh, for the interview and, you know, we became friends throughout that. That, that interview process and you know, her pain runs deep, but I need you guys to understand the ramifications of what happened because Mrs. Fortson lost a son. She lost a hero. She lost a gift. You know, Roger was a hero to his family. You know, we all have family members who excel more than others who believe more than others. And we, and we, and we get that everybody can't be the same, but you know, United States government spent millions training Roger to become the man that he was. Look at the ripple effect that his death has caused. For his family who potentially have lost thousands and thousands of dollars, his potential wife, his potential children, the legacy he could have left behind for generations. I mean, this is systemic when you lose a person like this. The mental toll that it takes on you is devastating. His mother will never

recover the same. Never.

He has a little sister. If you, if you go on, you look at the article, one of the first photos, when you turn the page, I think it's 41 or 42. But when you look at the photo of him and his little sister, she is in uniform, mimicking him, the influence he had on his immediate family. This little girl will never be able to get him back to continue to follow in his footsteps. So what are the ramifications for her? Does she, is her life derailed or does she continue? We don't know. And so it's, it's devastating. Gentlemen, the 40 pound backpack that we all wear when we get up in the morning, when we have to walk out the door, it's real, it's real. Black men are suffering. We're suffering in silence. You know, we need to communicate. We need to honor him. We need to reach out to each other. Um, this, this impacted me personally, not only because I'm a black man, but because I have two sons that I love. That I can't protect when they're out driving and they're getting ice cream. And next thing you know, I get the phone call that they've been shot because maybe they didn't put their hands at 10 and two. Maybe they didn't roll down the windows. Maybe they didn't take the key out the ignition and turn the car. Maybe they were so scared that they didn't call me on speaker phone. Uh, and, and the officers saw maybe, you know, something on the dashboard they thought was a weapon and now they're dead. I can't protect my kids, gentlemen, and I don't know what to do.

Let me say this, because when we talk about the mental health aspect of this, this went from zero to 60 really quick. He showed up, he being the officer, Showed up for a noise complaint and turned into a murder. So his heightened sense of, uh, sensitivity shouldn't, it shouldn't even you showed up. It wasn't like you showed up to shots fired or, uh, you know, something traumatic. Absolutely. So you shouldn't have been on 10. He went from zero to 80. Or zero to a hundred. It's

worse than that because he heard no noise.

But again, he should

have been de escalating from that. If you, I wrote in the article, if you listen, you can hear birds chirping as he's knocking on a door.

I still say, and again, I know you guys agree with this. That just epitomizes the fear that he had towards black people. There's no other reason, there's nothing else you could come up with to say that's not accurate, unless he went there to murder somebody, alright? This shows flat out that the person was, and this is not just him, it's part of society, I hate to say it, is that they are afraid of us. Okay, because there's no other reason for him to do what he did

and we can't shrink there. There's not enough shrinking we can do.

You can't. That's my point here, right? You can't. There's no law you can write against fear. Okay, and I'm not giving them excuses. I'm just telling you what it is because there's no reason this young man should be dead today. Okay, because he didn't do anything. All right, so that's the only thing. And we've seen this happen many a time, not to this, well, sometimes even to this level. But this is where I want to get to. I want to ask you two quick questions. Number one, are you surprised that where everybody is, you know, I don't want to say, we're all devastated. You don't see the, the fervor, um, around Roger that you did around George Floyd. Okay. So are you surprised by that?

So the answer to that is yes and no. And let me kind of explain that answer. Yes. I'm a little surprised, but at the same time, the mother and the family, because Ben Crump is the, is the attorney, his law firm is representing, uh, the Fortson family. They've asked for people to be patient because he's being supported by the U S air force. Uh, they've come out with flying colors to support the family. Uh, they do not want to have anyone else be harmed. Uh, by protesting. And so they've asked for the country to be patient, uh, to, to, to reserve our anger for a minute to see if the sheriff's office and ultimately the prosecutor, the prosecutor does the right thing. And so that's why we haven't seen anything. And so that's why my answer is yes or no. Yes. I'm surprised that we didn't, but at the same time, as I learned more and interviewed the family, since they asked for patients. Uh, the country is giving them that.

Let me, so, and I hear that, and, and, and I, and it's great that people respect their wishes. So, I'm not even talking from a protest standpoint. I'm not talking from people, you know, going to the streets, or, I'm just talking in terms of story, staying out there, and being just more prevalent. Right? That's what I'm talking about. So you don't, you don't see, let's be fair here. This was done on what, May 3rd, okay? Yes. Your article came out for your June publication, which was June 4th, alright? I'm, and maybe it's me, but I haven't seen a whole lot. Follow up, I'm talking about in terms of follow up reporting, you know, the, until actually yesterday or the day before yesterday when they fired the officer. So that's what I'm saying is I haven't seen a lot of people really talk about this outside of the first maybe three, four days, week, and it kind of died away.

You, you are correct. The article has not grown the legs that I would have hoped it would have grown, uh, through this tragedy. But this is the kind of conversation we need to have about media in America and how, how black people are portrayed in media. That's one of the things that, you know, we go around the country, we do speaking engagements talking about these, the state of media and black media. Um, we just simply do not have. The representation that we deserve, uh, from the major news organizations that report on news. Now you see Trump in the news on a daily basis, but you know, Roger Fortson, who was an American Patriot to me who deserved more coverage than this. He's not getting the coverage that I would have expected. And so we need to turn a dial up on this. Hopefully, as this progresses and the investigation is completed, we begin to see more, but we definitely, you know, we need to get to the water cooler. We need to go to the barbershop. We need to spread the word. Please share the article if you can. We need to continue to talk about this because I guarantee you we will be sitting here again when we talk about the next person who got gunned down by the police who did not deserve it. And I'm trying to avoid that by having this conversation now so we can avoid that in the future.

You said something that affected me deeply, um, that I hadn't thought of and I try to think all the angles most of the time, but you talked about the personal impact, uh, for you having boys. And then you talked about the assault on the community or the possibilities of what Roger could have provided to his family and community. And I think that although there may be some sense of justice, as it relates to him as the individual, we never recoup, it's kind of like generational wealth. We never recoup the, the, the assault on the community. The wake that it left behind, can you speak to that a little bit as far as what he had in store and the possibilities that existed for this young brother and what we all lost out on collectively as him being our next senator, our next, you know, uh, principal or whatever the case may

be. Yeah. Roger Fortson was on a trajectory. Probably he could have become the president of the United States. This young man was exemplary. I mean, he chose to go to the U. S. Air Force right out of high school because he wanted to serve his country. More importantly, he wanted to not have to pay for college. You know, there's a great debate of college is worth it. And if the fee of college after you graduate paying 567 100 a month back to pay for your tuition is worth it. Roger Forth, he had the foresight to say, you know what, I want to be educated, but I don't want the debt. So what can I do to educate myself but not take on that debt? So he went to the U. S. Air Force because he was a patriot of the country. He loved his family. He loved himself and he loved his country. He was going to use the GI Bill to then go to college, get his four year degree. He was doing it in the right way. But the young man wanted to become a fighter pilot. He wanted to become one of the most respected things you can be in this country. And we need to understand that the kind of example he would have been for so many people. So the ripple effect of his death is on it's untold. We don't know what impact this young man had or would have had on society. We already can tell you that his family is devastated. His two older siblings who looked down at him for inspiration and his two younger siblings who looked up to him for inspiration. We don't, we can't tell you now what path is, is laid out for them in the future. You know, his mother, um, you know, talking to her. She's my mother. She's your mother's

right?

She's black. America's mother,

right?

Because she was raising a superstar and she relished in the fact that she was blessed to be able to give birth to a man of his caliber. So she was proud.

Right? Right.

And now, you know, when I, when I talked to her, she's in pain, you know, she said, Brad, I don't know. People ask me, you know, how I have the strength to continue. She said, I'm not operating out of strength. I'm operating out of pain. They stole my gift.

Right?

Since he was four years old, she called him her gift. He exemplified excellence at four gentlemen, the woman he was supposed to marry, the children he was supposed to have. We don't know the ripple effect of the economic impact of his death is going to have in a black community. And then the circle around him, it's millions,

right? Right.

Right. Let me ask the story. We don't tell.

Let me ask you this, my friend, the way I started with my first when, when I read your, your excerpt in the beginning, um, I want to get your thoughts, um, because you said, uh, and your article is, is titled, uh, murdered by America. And you said Roger Fortson was murdered by America. He was murdered by Congress, he was murdered by white Americans, and he was murdered by black Americans. Give us some, your thoughts in terms of how these three bodies can come together. And what solutions can we all do, right, to be able to hopefully not see this happen again.

So, you know, one of the unfortunate ripple effects that happens in the black community is that eventually ripples into white. If you take a look at San Diego, excuse me, San Francisco and what's happening out there, you're starting to see crime permeate into areas where it shouldn't be. Right. So we need white America and black America to come together. Because we have more in common now than we've ever had.

It's so true.

This is not about money anymore. This is about quality of life. Right. And so we need to come together to demand change from our Congress to then treat everybody equal. Um, So hold on,

Brad. When you say demand change from my, our Congress specifically, what do you mean?

I'm talking about the fact that we need to enact, uh, police profiling laws. We need to hold our officers at a higher standard. But let me tell you something. We also need to work with our police officers to give them empathy training. I personally believe that DEI is not enough. When you have empathy for your fellow human, you. You perform better when we see somebody in a wheelchair, we open the door. When we see somebody struggling, we help, you know, and I don't, I don't want to get into politics, but you know, when the, when the Bush era eliminated mental health, uh, uh, mental health funding, our police departments became the warehouses for mental health patients. So, you know, we've asked our police officers to be not only our protectors, but to come in and provide mental health, uh, for society. That is not fair. So I'm not sitting here blaming police alone. Our police officers need our support. They need our encouragement. We need to work with them to create empathetic environment where police officers are Are given the tools to better deal with society. And so that's, that's when I say, you know, or when you want to answer your question, that those are the steps I believe I would like to see us take as a society to, to fix this problem. Cause at some point, this is going to be all of our problems. At some point, you're going to hear white people getting gunned down. At some point, you're going to hear the wrong person get killed.

What role do the people in your profession have at shaping how we, uh, address this? Are you talking about journalists?

Well, I mean, we're trying to do our part by bringing this to light. We want to make sure that we keep Roger, Roger's story in the forefront, you know, code him. We have a commitment to, to the culture of being black. Uh, you know, our job is to, is to tell these stories and bring them to light. So then people can affect change. So they're aware. Uh, so then they can make better decisions going forward, understanding, you know, What we have to deal with being black in this country, and we have, we have white readers at CODA, and we're hoping that the people who are white that read the magazine decide to get involved. And so that's, that's the role we're trying to play. We're trying to do our part as an organization. You know, our executive team, we're considering having some type of scholarship for Roger Fortson going forward. Through code and foundation, where maybe potentially a young person who wants to go to the military, we provide some kind of aid. Maybe we start communicating with police departments across the country, and we do some type of empathy training where we go in and we speak to them about what black men are going through. But something needs to be done. Uh, to affect change with this because I'm telling you right now, uh, I, I, Mrs. Fortson is my hero because I don't know what I would do if one of my sons was murdered, uh, unnecessarily for just simply being black.

The tough part about it is he was murdered because he was black. But if you take away the fact that he was black, he happened to be black. So, you know, some people say. I'm a black vice president or I'm a vice president happens to be black. He was an American hero and American soldier and American success story. So the fact that we don't have more outlets like yours, uh, clamoring to the fact that an American. Serving US military, you know, uh, uh, personnel was gunned down or murdered over some bs. That's the car. That's,

that's my point. That makes sense to me, that's outrageous, right? That sense. And that's why I

preface that point in the article that I wanna make sure that people understand that this was an American patriot, right? This is the kind of American son that we all wish we could have had, and the country needed Roger Fortune. If you take a look at what's going on around the world, we need more patriots. We need more people to love this country and to make that sacrifice that he was willing to make by joining the armed services for us. He was doing that for you, Tony. He was doing it for you, Chris. And he was doing it for me. He was doing it for me. We need to put this man, we need to honor him the way he should be honored.

Well, I can say this, um, and I'm pretty sure Chris will agree with me. You did that by writing this article. My brother code M did that by chatting with his mother and his family. Code M, which means you, and Bilal, telling his story about who he is. Right and keeping his memory alive. So I want to applaud you Okay not just because you're on a black executive perspective because we had nothing to do with you writing this article and putting him on the cover and we need more Media publications doing the exact same thing because it's quick to somebody's dealing drugs or whatever Oh, they'll be on the cover Or if there's a migrant running across and they did, they did some type of crime, they'll be on the cover. Right? But here's an American patriot. Who is at home and here's the thing I would say this, um, and you talked about empathy training, which is very key for police had they saw him as a person versus as a group of black people. Do you think he would be alive today?

I do. I really do. Yeah, Tony. I really do. Yeah, I really do. Yeah, I, you know, when they, when they found out the apartment number, I wish there was a way that they could have found out who rented that apartment and then get the background in that person, you

know, I,

there are so many scenarios in which I played this over in my head that hopefully would have brought a different outcome. And unfortunately, you know, with his passing, we, we can't go back and redo this, but what we can do is we can save the next person by demanding change. Yeah.

Exactly. And, and, and by saving the next person, and I loved it, and this is my, and I want to get your final thoughts, but by saving the next, the next person, the individual has to see that person. Yeah, as a person, as an individual versus a group, okay, because when you see that person as an individual, then I would, that's where the empathy comes in versus this group. And this group is going to attack me versus this person. You see my point, my brother, you agree with that.

Do you guys understand that Roger Fortson served three tours overseas and he saved ten people in an airplane when they were under attack? He saved ten people? This man was an American hero and I want to make sure that I tell that story because I need you to understand how important he was to our country.

I think the saddest part though, we keep having Alternate alternative variations of the same story based on the same action predicated by fear. So regardless of the, the, the resume or the profile, this one is a great one, an exemplary one, but people dying unnecessarily is tragic no matter what country, no matter what race, no matter what opportunities. And so moving forward, how do we stop having the same variation? Yeah. Or different variations of the same conversation, Brad, how do we, what, what steps need to be taken, even if it's pie in the sky, even if it's wishful thinking, what the hell has to happen for us not to keep reading about this stuff over and over again to the point where somewhat numb and desensitized to somebody got shot down by the police. And the police is still walking around, you know, comfortably.

Well, again, we need to have, uh, anti police profiling laws in the country to hold them to a higher standard. But at the same time, we need to offer empathy training to our police officers because they are here to protect and serve. And listen, the majority of police officers are good. They're decent

people. Yes.

They're good people.

So true.

We, we all know police officers. I have friends who are police officers. I have nothing but respect for our men who protect and serve, but, but we have a problem. We have to admit that we have a problem. We need to get, sit down with them at a table and not preach, not demand, you know, but we, we need to recommend empathy training. We need to go in there and enact some type of, you know, um, uh, I don't know if it's, okay. Programs where, you know, we sit down with the police and these, these, these are, these things are happening all over the country where you have citizen, citizens joining the police force. They have these oversight committees where, you know, average citizens join the police force, but I don't see empathy training. We need empathy training. You know, police officers have some of the highest divorce rates in the country, right? So there's a problem within the police community in itself that we need to address because they have high stress lives. And so we need to find a way to support our police officers to help them understand that we're not here to harm them. Now, of course, I can't speak for every black man, but I can speak for myself and you guys. I'm sure I can speak for you that we're not here to cause harm, but we need to press upon them. Please don't judge a book by its cover. Take a look at the deeper, the deeper, uh, person inside. And so that's a loaded question, Chris, on what we can do. This is the beginning of it. Uh, you know, we need to make sure that we vote at a local level. We need to make sure that we demand. These laws be passed and we need to make sure we keep this throughout in the forefront. And there's a part two to this. There's a part two to this because it's next, what do we do to create more accountability with our police? And so that's where it starts.

Well, my brother, like I said earlier, um, I'm thankful for you. Um, and I'm pretty sure obviously they're going through a lot of pain right now, but I'm pretty sure his family is thankful for you guys as well. And we should all, um, keep his memory alive. And more importantly, let's try to make a positive out of a very tragic situation. And Remember him, but also act. So, uh, hopefully not another family. We'll have to deal with such a, a heinous, very tough, um, situation like his family is dealing with. So we want to thank you, my brother, Brad Bowling president of CODE M Magazine for coming on a black executive perspective podcast, sharing your perspective on the article that you wrote murdered by America.

Thank you guys. Appreciate you, Chris. Appreciate you, Tony.

Let me ask you this before we, uh, get through here. Is there anything else or anything more that we at a black executive perspective podcast could do to help you in this cause or others?

Man, you guys have been fantastic. The fact that we're on here having this discussion is very important. Um, we need, uh, a black executive perspective to continue to bring these tough conversations to the public. And I mean, these are some tough conversations that guys, I mean, you know, this is a, in a very emotional conversation we're having, I mean, It's tough, bro. When I think about my two sons, I get emotional myself because I felt like Roger Forson could have been my son, you know, and I, I don't know what I, what I would do if this happened to two of my boys. I'm sitting here trying right now on this podcast with you two to try and to find a way to protect my two boys. And this is one of the best ways I can think to do it.

Well, I can tell you this, my brother. Um, Your request is something that we're going to do regardless, right? We're going to keep talking about these conversations. Our goal is to educate people. We want to hold people accountable, but we have to educate them. All right, because that's how change starts. There's a lot of things that need to be done and they can be done, but first we got to get everyone on the same mindset because when we're on the same mindset and we come together, we can make change. So. But again, it started with you today, it started with you and your, your editor, putting this together and spending time with the family and keeping his story alive. And we look forward to having you come back on the Black Executive Perspective podcast to talk about a lot more stories that you guys keep alive, that you educate people. So again, we want to thank you for joining.

All right, man, you guys have a great day.

You too, my friend, you too. So I think it's now time for Tony's Tidbit. And the Tidbit today is by Martin Luther King Jr. Change does not roll in on the wheels of inavailability, but comes through continuous struggle. And so, we must straighten our backs and work for our freedom. A man can't ride you unless your back is bent. And again, that's from Martin Luther King Jr. And one thing I want to add to the tidbit, and our guest today, Brad Bowling spoke about it when he talked about empathy training for police. I just don't think empathy training is just for the police. I think empathy training is for all of us. We have to stop seeing people as groups, and we have to start seeing people as individuals. Because when we see people as individuals, then we see the humanity in that individual. And nine times out of ten, we provide that courtesy to that other human being. So that's something that we're asking all of us, all of you. to really take a step back and work on not seeing people as a group. See them as God made human being who wants the same things that you want, who wants to see their families grow, they want to see their kids go to school, and they want to see their kids become more successful in them, and that their kids outlive them. And so if everybody can do that, that first little step, That'll stop tragedies like this.

Well, before we get out of here, we want to thank you guys again for spending time with this episode, and hope that you enjoyed it, Murdered by America. And we also want to remind you of our call to action. We have a call to action. We remind you that we to incorporate less L E S S

and L stands for learn. If it's anything, and this, this episode epitomizes why this call to action is so important. You want to learn about people that you don't know, people of different races, different cultures, because by doing that, you'll see them as human beings and you become more enlightened.

And E is for empathy. You want to understand diverse perspectives and you want to be right before you're fast. I think we're so quick to judge and quick to castigate folks, but you want to have empathy for your fellow human being.

And then the other S stands for share. You want to share what you've learned to your friends and family so they can become enlightened as well.

And then the last S is for stop. Actively work to stop discrimination and foster inclusivity. This will help build a fairer, more understanding world. Let's all do this every day if we can, and you'll see the change that you want to, you'll be the change that you want to see. So if you hear somebody say something out of pocket. Check them on that. Let them know there's a better way we can be better, but we have to make actions to do so. And less incorporates those actions that we should be taking.

Absolutely, Chris. So please everyone take this call to action. Less L E S S. This is something that every individual can do. And if you can do it, we'll start as Chris says, being able to see the change that we want to see. So we want to thank you again for tuning in to another episode of a Black Executive Perspective podcast. Murdered by America by CodeM Magazine with our guest Brad Bowling. And you can be able to follow a Black Executive Perspective on all our socials. LinkedIn, X, Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook ablackexec.

And then also go to our website and sign up for our newsletter. Please leave us reviews and subscribe wherever you are listening to this podcast that helps us get better for you. Give us the things that you care and are close to your heart, and we'll try to discuss those things.

Exactly, Chris. So again, we want to thank our guest president of CODE M magazine, Brad Bowling. For my cohost, Chris P. Reed. Thanks a lot, Chris, buddy. Always, you always bring it. And then for our producer, Noelle Miller, who makes everything happen in the background. We want to thank her. And again, we want to thank you for tuning in. We talked about it. We love you and we're out.

A Black Executive Perspective.