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Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be.

Scott Lewton and special guest hosts Claudia Freed and Rodney Apple with you here on Supply Chain Now.

Welcome to today's live stream.

Hey, Claudia, how you doing?

I'm great.

I am doing great.

I'm so happy to be here with you guys.

We are delighted.

It's so great to see you again.

And gosh, a one, two punch.

Rodney Apple, how you doing?

Very good, Scott.

It's always a pleasure to see you.

And I'm very happy to be on this segment of your show, me and you both.

Between you and Claudia, y' all get ready.

Cause we can solve all the world's ills right now with these two gurus.

Hey, folks, today, as always, is the Buzz where every Monday at 12 noon Eastern time, we discuss a variety of news and developments across global supply chain and global business.

And hey, those tuned into the live stream.

Hey, we're going to keep it real.

We recorded today's session because our team is out there working hard at Gartner Supply Chain Symposium.

But we'll be back live next week.

But no biggie.

We've got an outstanding show here today, folks.

Lots of great topics.

We're going to be diving into building sustainable supply chains, key lessons learned From Earth Day 2025, forces shaping the supply chain talent landscape, and a whole bunch more.

Claudia, it should be a great show, huh?

We could talk all day.

So we're just going to have to pack these high energy and get all the points across because there's a lot happening in supply chains.

So true, you know.

And Rodney, did you eat your Wheaties?

Because we got a lot to get to today.

I did.

I had yogurt, actually, but that'll do.

You know, I keep getting told I've got to update that reference because Wheaties isn't cool like in the 80s when all the commercials were on.

So what to find a suitable yogurt that might be the new power breakfast choice?

I don't know.

But regardless, folks, stay tuned for a great show.

All right, so we've been fortunate to have Claudia and Rodney with us on episodes in the past, but it's been a little while.

So for the benefit of our newer audience members, I want to start by offering a few fun warmup questions to both of these longtime friends and supply chain pros here.

So, Claudia, I'm Going to start with you.

I think I've got an image here.

Cause we caught up at Promat this year and look at this.

If there's one image that captures some of the irresistible spirit and passion Claudia has, this is it.

By the way, man, Promat up in Chicago drew 54,000 people this year.

That was incredible.

But Claudia, it's hosted by the great city of Chicago.

We had a wonderful time.

And you being a resident of that wonderful city, my question to you.

For folks that are venturing into Chicago for one of the many events it hosts, what's a key tip or two by someone that knows what they're talking about?

Well, first of all, check social media because there are some events that are now being covered in national media.

Unfortunately, every major city has to be thinking about safety first.

So I will suggest that if it is a beautiful summer day, you want to know what's going on socially on the streets and just be safe.

However, if you are coming to Chicago for an event like Promad where people are here visiting for two or three days, if you like architecture, I would highly encourage any visitor to do a special tour by the architectural Foundation.

It is one of the highest ranked city tours all over the world.

And you get on a boat and you actually learn about the history of Chicago in a beautiful setting.

Also think you should go to visit some of our fantastic Mexican cooking that is in Chicago and Pilsen and in some of the neighborhoods.

And there's a great transportation system here all the way from o' Hare to Pilsen to Chinatown.

So come and explore and pack light because if you can jam everything in your very small carry on, you really can be efficient.

Moving in the city, taking the l, the subways, and you don't have to get stuck on the exposure.

You jam packed that in about two minutes time.

And Rodney, did you catch that?

Whether it is travel or supply chain or running businesses, Claudia is efficient.

I love that.

And I look forward to being back into the wonderful city of Chicago soon.

But Rodney, speaking of wonderful cities and parts of the country and parts of the world, I miss those days where you and I would grab lunch at some delicious microbreweries or barbecue restaurants in beautiful Ashfield, North Carolina.

And we know that that area is rebounding with incredible spirit.

And we're with you every step of the way.

It's to hear about some signs of recovery you were sharing with us pre show.

But on a much, much lighter note, what's one of your favorite restaurants or venues in that area where you can Relax or just enjoy life.

Yes, Scott, we are rebounding and it's good to see progress.

It's been a little over six months ago since Helene hit and did a lot of damage, but it's refreshing to see.

You know, I'm looking out the window now.

I'm in the busy section of the South Slope Brewing district.

It is a vibrant area and there's lots of really neat independently owned restauran and shops.

Breweries, distilleries, cideries.

We've got it all down here.

I can walk to about 10 breweries within like a two block radius.

But I would say this area is cool.

You can walk right into downtown.

One of my favorite restaurants is Curate.

It's a Spanish tapas restaurant.

Very famous James Beard award winning chefs.

Wow.

And then you've got Sierra Nevada, of course.

I call it Malt Disney.

So from a supply chain perspective, a lot of supply chain going on there, but it is on 200 acres right on the French Broad River.

It's beautiful.

So when you come here, check those two places out in particular, hit the South Slope and you certainly want to hit the trails.

We've got three national forests, two national parks nearby, and so there's a lot to do on the outdoor scene as well.

So, folks, Rodney, I tell you, both of y' all should be highly sought after travel guides for your respective parts of the world.

But folks, get up there and see Asheville.

It's open for business and it is such a beautiful Asheville in Chicago.

Such beautiful places to visit.

Rodney, I learned a new word and Claudia, you may have caught that.

A cidery.

I've never heard that word before, Rodney.

I'm going to have to write that one down.

Did you hear that too, Claudia?

I did, but I don't know what it means.

So, Rodney, fill us in.

Okay.

You take a look at my last name, and it's basically apple, you know, type, different types of apple cideries and things like that.

I'm not a huge fan.

It's a little too sweet for my taste buds.

But they're very popular and they're gaining a lot of popularity as well.

And we've got one a block over and I think there's another one in town as well.

So.

Okay.

Yeah.

Incredible.

All right, so I've written that down.

I have been working on my vocabulary, Claudia and Rodney, and this wrote down soldery.

And I added it to two other words I've recently come across that I've never used.

Vexatious and concomitant.

And I'm probably mispronouncing that concomitant yes audio.

So we're working on my on expanding my horizons vocabulary next show it's there's.

Going to be a quiz.

That's right folks.

You know and that's a see it's a really interesting way to learn a foreign language as I have had to learn to speak English all these years.

Ah well hey, and your English vocabulary is bigger than mine so I'm have to really work on that.

Claudia but regardless, great to have y' all here.

Appreciate what you shared about Chicago and Asheville respectively.

And we got a lot of good stuff to dive into and we're going to start with this folks.

We've got a great lead article.

This comes to us from Forbes and it encourages organizations to build a sustainable supply chain for a competitive advantage.

Now I'm going to unpack this a bit and then we'll get Claudia and Rod needs to take here.

So the author is Greg Hewitt with DHL Express Us.

And Greg says it's beyond time to reimagine your company's entire supply chain, especially given its role in any organization's carbon footprint.

Now he points out how the business case for building a green supply chain is a really strong one where the returns on the investment include improving efficiencies, lowering costs, improving customer engagement.

And it can also help win business hit that top line as some customers in the market will pay more for sustainable products and organizations that can deliver them.

Now Hewitt points to three areas to investigate ASAP as you look to build a more sustainable supply chain.

Number one, really understanding the manufacturing component in your supply chain ecosystem.

You know thy business like yourself.

Number two, focusing more on green logistics where you can reduce touches, waste, excess inventory, energy usage and a whole bunch more.

And I know Claudia's gonna get a kick out of this last one.

Shine a big old bright light on reverse logistics, returns management and overall circularity that can be baked into your supp.

So Claudia, and that's just a high level of that whole read.

There's a whole bunch there, a whole bunch to talk about.

But Claudia, your take on all of that.

I have great respect for the Forbes Business Council content and particularly dhl.

I remember in Argentina the first time that I ever saw a package being delivered in a rural area when I was growing up there it was a DHL carrier.

So I value a part of the supply chain now is having this content that we all get to explore.

Back to the premise of this sustainable supply chains.

There are others obviously in the field that come to my mind as being true leaders in this space.

But I would offer my take on the article and in the concept of these supply chains that are greener and more sustainable and really a couple of concepts.

I agree with the article about this becoming more of a priority where I would expand or perhaps push a little further is that a lot of the supply chain efforts and sustainability and sustainable supply chains.

First of all, we have to make sure that it's a holistic view when it comes to natural resources.

Think of the manufacturing point made by the article.

We focus quite a bit on carbon footprint.

What I am hearing more and more and through even we'll talk a little bit later about Earth Day is really carbon footprint is right now almost the baseline.

The real challenge is to begin to think about other natural resources such as water footprint.

So natural resources, carbon footprint and water footprint, when we think about energy.

With regards to the second piece, which is the green transportation, for many years here at EAL Green, we have partnered with carriers to do all the best practices, some of which we have learned here from Supply Chain.

Now, experts about the efficiency of your transportation components, your partners, are they using the right vehicles, the right design for trucks, Are we using intermodal?

Is that the last mile really the most efficient way for our supply chain, which focuses on reverse logistics, redistributing products that normally couldn't have ended up on the landfill.

And the third component is this idea of this becoming now a sustainable supply chain, a real priority for businesses in the sense that what we are observing is that reverse logistics, which up until a few years ago was kind of like when I tell somebody we convert a snowblower into a scholarship, they will really scratch their heads and say what?

Reverse logistics was sort of the cousin, right?

There wasn't the right language to describe that.

And until we became a member of the community.

So I just read an article that if you look at the experts that are talking about reverse logistics, there is a point where some of the product that is being returned may actually in fact exceed the sales for that company for that period.

So when you are thinking about this tilting the other way, you think about risk management.

So I think that one aspect of the article that I would expand on would be think about natural resources in a broader way and think about risk management in not only the forward looking side of the supply chain, but also on the reverse side.

Claudia, Excellent.

And folks, if you've been tuned into supply Chain now for any stretch over the course of our existence, you know that we try to Shine a bigger light on this really important part of the global supply chain ecosystem, which doesn't get as much attention as the other side, the forward side.

That's reverse logistics, returns management, and the circularity of movement that continues to gain momentum.

So more on that, but good stuff there.

Claudia, Rodney, your thoughts on this interesting read from our friends at Forbes about building a sustainable supply chain for a competitive advantage.

Well, like you, Scott, it's been around for a while.

I think there's two things.

Some companies look at it as more of an expense.

You know, this is going to be.

There's going to be a cost of this, and we've got to do this for the environment.

You know, some look at it from a PR perspective, especially those that crank out a lot of waste in the environment.

In reality, it's good business, it's profitable business.

It can certainly add dollars to your bottom line.

And so while, you know, you want to do the right things for the environment, you want companies to do that, there's also, it's advantageous for business.

So as we have F on our own Supply Chain Careers podcast, this is a super hot topic these days.

And on the recruitment side, and I have an environmental science degree, so I'm a big fan, naturally.

Okay.

Even though I never used it.

I'm sure you've used that time or a thousand in your career.

Maybe a little bit.

But I've had those health, safety, environment, sustainability functions, you know, 25 plus years of recruiting and supply chain.

And I go back to, you know, Coca Cola uses a lot of water, a lot of energy and a lot of carbon.

So they hit the three that you talked about, Claudia.

And I had that function and I.

It was really fascinating to see the investments they were bringing in, you know, from a talent, you know, from resources and tools to try to reduce their impact on the environment.

Reduce water usage.

It's not just the water that goes into the Coke.

There's a lot of water that goes into the whole processing.

And so, you know, clean in place when you switch lines and things like that.

So I'm a big proponent and I can certainly share more.

I think it should be a philosophy too.

I like to compare it.

There's some parallels between sustainability and continuous improvement.

You know, continuous improvement.

You typically see those CI teams, I've stood those up and recruit for those all the time, you know, lean Six Sigma kind of folks.

But where you get the real value is embedding that culture of continuous improvement within, throughout the organization, out into your factory and footprint distribution centers.

Et cetera, and even really across your business functions.

And I would say equally important is thinking about sustainability.

It shouldn't just be a centralized team that goes out and works on projects.

It really should be something that's interwoven throughout the organization where you have that culture of sustainability.

Well said, well said.

And I want to add two points based on kind of what y' all both shared.

Number one, that prevalent mindset where it's all baked into the organization, everyone plays a part.

Right.

That's so important.

It's a great call out, Rodney.

And the other thing going back to Claudia's emphasis on energy, you know, if you don't like talking about and reading about or being a part of energy initiatives, you're going to hate the years coming up because as we all know, with the advent of this golden age of supply chain tech that's in large part powered by AI, this amazing what real outcomes that the companies have gotten it right, how they're using AI.

But given all the copious amounts of energy, we're going to have to figure out and reinvent the energy proposition.

But the good news is my humble, not very bold, not very fearless prediction is that that yin and yang between companies really wanting to ramp up their use of AI and the energy, how the energy equation's impacted.

We're going to have some breakthroughs.

We're going to have more breakthroughs and more usage of green energy, renewable energy.

And as we've been talking about for quite some, I think the new nuclear age and modern day nuclear and more tactical nuclear.

I think there's a, there's gonna be a growing business case that we see there as well.

Claudia, before we shift over into some key takeaways from Earth Day, your final word on this article from Forbes, final.

Word is that if you're not thinking sustainability, you're not winning business.

That is quite a final word, Claudia.

I like that.

I like that.

And you and Rodney, clearly the business case is there folks.

Okay, I want to shift over and talk about the 55th year of Earth Day.

Earth Day 2025 was just a couple weeks ago.

I want to get some of both of yalls key takeaways from this annual call to action that drives real action oftentimes.

Now I want to start with you, Claudia.

So Claudia, you've got an incredible track record of innovative and transformational leadership, especially in the ESG and supply chain space.

And I know that sustainability and circularity and the re economy is near and dear to your heart.

So what are some of your top Key takeaways from this year's Earth Day.

I went to a fantastic event at a place that I hadn't visited before called the Climate Action Museum.

And speaking about visitors to Chicago, I encourage anyone visiting Chicago to visit the place.

It's called the Climate action museum.

Because EAL Green is a 42 year old organization, it is absolutely critical for us to be out there in the world learning from the best of the best in terms of what is new, what are some of the things that are being discussed in those settings.

In particular, this was a hero's award for individuals that have been focusing on climate, climate reporting, climate metrics, the impact of climate on our society.

Fascinating group, small group here in Chicago.

What I took away, first of all, I said to myself, it is Earth Day, I have to be participating, actively participating.

And I think that that in itself is one of the takeaways is that sustainability, circular economy.

Those are very intentional activities.

One has to take the initiat initiative to participate, to learn, to be active, to bring in good idea back to your organization and implement.

So besides the personal motivation, when I went to the Heroes Award, the room was full of architects and I thought, hmm, this is interesting.

And what I learned, Scott Rodney, is that the way that architecture, buildings and space are beginning to think about sustainability is below the surface.

It's material.

What are materials that are going to be kinder in the long term for both not only energy conservation, but actually energy regeneration.

So there is tremendous scientific development going on in what type of material do we use that will empower the Earth to continue to grow beautiful trees in a landscape situation?

And as the mother of a landscape architect, I am keenly aware of again, the role that water plays.

So one of the things that I took away from Earth Day really is the fact that while we think about sustainability in the supply chain, there is a fair amount of energy being spent on designing for sustainability, which is very interesting.

From raw materials to again, more efficient designs theoretically will eliminate waste, more efficient design, maybe easier and lighter to transport.

So I agree with you that.

But in the moment of a lot of breakthroughs that we don't even know yet.

That's right.

I like how practically optimistic you are, Claudia.

We live in amazing times and what delivers these amazing times, I'm hoping enables us to get smarter and much more sustainable in our approach.

Rodney, your thoughts on what Claudia just shared or on Earth Day 2025 in general?

Well, Scott, it's funny, I got in the car this morning, I dropped my kids off to school, you know, they big time celebration at the Earth Day at school.

They're in elementary at the same school, which makes it convenient from a logistics perspective and save a little bit of gas on the environment, my carbon footprint, why not having to take them to two different schools.

So anyway, my daughter, she's seven, and she said she was talking about Earth Day as we got to the car, leaving for school.

And my comment back to her was, Ansley, every day is Earth Day.

You know, and so I look at it, my philosophy on it, as someone that can't even throw a toothpick out the window.

It's, you know, it's.

I get so frustrated.

We've had some wildfires around here recently and came upon one on the highway just leaving the house, Interstate 26.

And there's a brush fire.

You know, there's a no burn throughout North Carolina ban.

It's just frustrating.

So the throwing out of cigarette butts and trash, it's always been a pet peeve of mine.

But then to see it cause a lot of damage from a, you know, wildfire perspective, you.

You have to think about that as well.

But I think, you know, my point is education.

I think it starts at home and I think, think, you know, I've always told our kids, they see trash on the side of the street, they make a comment about it, you know, they pick it up.

And I think we, as parents, you know, we have to educate our kids on the importance of, you know, we have one planet to take care of.

And, you know, it's educating our kids.

And I think our schools are doing a pretty good job at that.

But the more people that do it, and, you know, you don't want to chastise someone for littering, but you do.

You know, I do see someone throw something out in front of me.

I'm hawking the horn and, you know, hey, you know, water, pick that back up.

What are you doing?

So that's a little bit different spin than Claudia's.

I certainly echo.

And we have a lot of our clients, too.

They're always looking at ways to make their products more efficient.

So that's a pretty common denominator from companies that embrace sustainability, especially in their product design.

So I echo what Claudia said, and I agree 100%.

Yeah, there's a great common thread between what you all both shared because Claudia started out by talking about how important it was to actively participate right in Earth Day.

And Rodney, what you're talking about, in my ears at least every day is Earth Day, which is important for us to wrap our heads around.

But also it sees little things that we can do and call attention to and not do things we shouldn't do and call attention to.

Because how we make progress and how we move mountains is all.

I heard one wonderful interviewee say it one time years ago.

It's a multitude of small nudges how we move these mountains.

And if we can start changing the mindset of just looking at things differently.

For example, Claudia and Rodney.

Claudia, you mentioned the Reverse Logistics Association.

Tony Schroeder, big shout out to the rla.

I toured a returns processing center, one of three that a really large retailer had at the time.

They've since grown a fourth one, I believe, and at the peak, they were processing 300 trailers per week of returns.

I challenge any supply chain team out there, especially companies that make stuff, tour one of those centers.

It will change your mindset in terms of how you view returns and the processes, including design, that leads to them.

And then secondly, kind of on the other side, Claudia mentioned diverting, while back diverting anything to our landfills.

I have the distinction of passing by a landfill out where I live.

And Rodney and Claudia, that thing started as a hill when we first moved out here.

That thing is almost Mount Everest now.

And I keep thinking, there's got to be a better way.

It's got to be a better way.

So anyway, Rodney and Claudia very well said.

Loved your key takeaways on Earth Day.

Raise your hand if you want some good news.

Yeah, all of us do, right?

A couple things.

I want to make sure, Claudia, that we keep Rodney happy.

I don't want him honking his horn or pulling me over.

I'm doing the wrong thing.

All right.

Some companies out there are taking Earth Day and taking sustainability and really driving more meaningfully into your overall business strategy.

So according to Sustainability magazine, Starbucks aims to certify 10,000 greener stores by 2025, halving emissions by 50% by 2030, Apple is cutting its carbon footprint by 45%.

They started, I guess, in 2015 and plans to make all products carbon neutral by 2030.

Asics.

I'll stop with this one.

Asics, the famous shoe brand.

I had a nice pair of those back in middle school.

Back in the day, Asics launched an eco collection using circular manufacturing and recycled textiles.

Love that.

So, Claudia and Rodney, kudos to those companies out there.

Really working hard to try to figure out how to take the right thing that there's clearly a business case for and moving it upstream into how we move.

Make, source, distribute, you name IT products out there.

Okay, are y' all ready to make the shift and talk more about supply chain talent?

Back to Claudia's point, this should have been a six hour episode because he these are big, big topics but we got the right people to talk through them and really enjoyed both of your perspective thus far.

So the critical element that is supply chain talent, the beautiful human factor that continues to make things happen every single day across global supply chain.

Christine Corson recently published a great read in Retail Touch Points that focused on how innovation and sustainability will reshape supply chain talent in 2025.

Now she cites a variety of factors at play and we're get both of y' all to weigh in here.

From sustainability's growing influence on supply chain roles and positions, we were kind of just talking about some of that to how automation, if anyone with a heartbeat out there, you know, automation is impacting talent needs such as increasing, increasing demand rather for proficient tech focused professionals.

And then thirdly the ongoing talent shortage and there's a variety of data points out there.

We recently spoke with the Manufacturing Institute's leader who's really looking at the shortage when it comes to the manufacturing industry here in the States.

All of that, the talent gap in general is fueling hiring managers willingness to accept more and more of the quote unquote perfect matches and look for more cross functional skills, well rounded candidates which might offer more versatility in value.

Okay, so Rodney, I hope you got all that right because you've spent over 20 years of end to end supply chain recruiting and executive search experience.

You've built one of the most successful supply chain recruiting firms in the country.

Your take on how these forces are shaping the supply chain talent workforce?

Yeah Scott, it's interesting having recruited in this space for so long and watching it evolve.

You know we're industry agnostic.

You know, we work with Fortune 500 down to startups and everything in between across all functions.

And so it's a unique perspective for sure.

And things have certainly evolved.

And on the topic of innovation and technology, we were always seeing rapid advancements.

You touched on AI earlier.

There's a lot of shiny objects that are coming into play.

I think a lot of companies are trying to be that next big thing and we're working with a client right now, supply chain tech company.

They think they're the next, next, you know, multi billion dollar supply chain AI company.

And I think a lot of companies think that too.

And it is a big thing.

And I think when you look at the from the lens of skills that are being shaped and evolving.

We're certainly seeing more demand for that talent.

But also Scott, where I see gaps and shortages is really, I'm going to go back to soft skills.

I think we're cranking out students right now.

The last time I checked a year or two ago, we have universities that teach supply chain programs.

It's easily over 120, 25 right now, just in the United States.

20, what was it, 25 years, whatever.

I got started in supply chain recruitment.

I think there were about six, you know, the suspects.

Right.

It was, you know, Tennessee, Michigan State, Penn State, Ohio State and a few others.

And back then, Scott and Claudia, it was really challenging to find the technical, the analytical skills, the soft skills were in abundance.

And if, and now it's been flipped and we see candidates come out of school with incredible analytical data.

Analytical skills, data science, technology skills.

They know how to work the systems coming out of the gate.

But where they're lacking is with the soft skills.

And we hear this day in, day out.

And if you think about things from a job level perspective, where are those gaps?

Is it entry junior?

It used to be we'd struggled all the time, like sometimes the analyst, engineers, demand planners were always a challenge, you know, now we're seeing those roles, you know, we don't get a lot of those roles anymore.

It's mid level and executive level where the gaps are at.

I think that's due to aging workforce and the baby boomer generation is what, next four years that generation will be at full retirement age.

So it's just been fascinating to see that 180 degree spin.

That's what we're seeing in the mid level.

That's where companies tell us they're having the most pain, is that mid level management up to executive and in particular Scott is going to be with transformation and change agent.

You just touched on automation.

It's not so much about the functional technical expertise needed with these systems.

A lot of it comes down to getting the organization to change, implementing that across the workforce, across the shop floor.

That's where the rubber hits the road.

That's where a lot of these implementations or transformations fail, is getting it to stick, you know, making it sustainable throughout the workforce.

That's my take on supply chain talent, you know, where some of the gaps are at.

Another interesting data point.

We study a lot of data, especially in marketing and their marketing team here.

And you know, we're seeing right now, you know, tariffs are certainly wreaking havoc as everyone is aware of and people are so sick of The T word.

Right.

But we're also seeing getting a lot of needs.

I kind of was pretty worried, like, I go, what's this going to do to our business?

What's it going to do to the overall workforce?

And I think when you see these massive shifts in policy and regulatory change, global trade chains, it actually creates demand for supply chain people.

Now, with that said, back to my point on the data analytics, you know, that we're tracking, this is our, just our unique perspective, but we're seeing one of the most major upticks in job seekers, you know, applicants coming in that are looking for work.

So on one hand, you know, you see a lot of companies laying off, but on the other hand, you know, we're getting swamped with needs.

And again, it's a lot of those transformational change leaders.

You know, talked to a guy yesterday, CEO, my current head of supply chain.

You know, we.

We got to make a major shift with our network and our supply, right?

And this person just cannot stay on top of it.

And this person's a former chief spotching officer himself, now CEO.

He goes, I know exactly what needs to occur, but I don't have the right leader to go out and make this happen.

And so that's a lot to take in that I packed in there.

But that's just what I'm seeing right now.

From our perspective, there's still a lot of demand.

And I think the good news is if you work in supply chain, it's still a very safe place to work and it's growing and evolving.

There's lots of good news there.

And folks, Claudia and Rodney both are illustrating they don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk.

They bring it, and they're both bringing it here today.

Lots of value.

Claudia, whether we go back to Rodney's kind of state of the union on supply chain talent, a lot of good stuff.

They know it.

They deal in the volume or the article that we were sharing earlier from retail touch points, your thoughts from the supply chain talent standpoint, There are a.

Couple of things that really are important to highlight.

And I'll start with Rodney's comments about this soft skill.

I wish that we had a different name, right, because there's nothing soft about conflict resolution, vision, accepting the responsibility, the accountability that comes with change management in supply chain.

And those are some of the few examples of where the soft skills, whether it's negotiating or motivating your team.

So on the one level, it really does come down to having the right people in the right spot.

But when it comes to education.

And back to the article, I think Rodney mentioned about 1002025 colleges and universities offering supply chain management degrees in the United States, which is fantastic and it's a really great progress made from the nine or eight that started it.

But when you think that there are 4,390 colleges and universities in the country, 125 is nothing.

Wow.

So on the one level, yes, there is progress being made and I believe that the CEOs that are opening up the C suite for chief supply chain Officer are also helping elevate the why would I study supply chain management?

Right.

So creating that demand and that career path that everyone aspires like those of us.

I've been here for 30 years at EAL, so I have seen it from where I didn't even know what those two words together meant, let alone finding a way to create value.

But back to the concept of this gap that you also mentioned, Rodney, about traditional liberal arts education becoming more business focused and determining how to create a curriculum that will lead to somebody having a career in supply chain.

And that is where you go to find some of this talent.

The unfortunate thing is that traditional curriculum development is a long term proposition in college, in order to get a degree granting institution to approve a curriculum, it takes years.

So where has the industry gone to satisfy and cover that gap up is a lot of hyper micro learning, small, highly focused degrees or enhancements to degrees.

And so that is the area of certificates and professional development.

So online platforms that are beginning to offer certain aspects of supply chain elements and whether it's sustainable supply chain.

And there are two colleges in the hello United States that talk about sustainable supply chains with a reverse logistics aspect.

So just two, just two.

That's a big opportunity.

And I said, well, Europe, to your point earlier, Ron, and the reference about tariffs, typically when we think about policy, whether it's in reclaiming electronics or in whether it's setting digital privacy laws, we look to Europe sometimes for certain guidance on how fast they move because they can make decisions in the European market.

And I took a look, is this only a deficiency in the United States market?

In higher education, Europe is the same thing.

So on the one level, industry is requiring this talent development in understanding what is the circular economy, what is reverse logistics, what are the environmental implications of these return centers or the cloud AI or whatever the environmental aspects of that.

And yet we are not able to yet teach that in, in an academic setting.

So I do agree with the article.

I would say that we need to learn A lot more.

And encourage more communities and private institutions to embrace this shift in creating the jobs of tomorrow.

Well said, Claudia.

I'm going to go back to and right, I'm gonna get your reaction to what Claudia just shared there in a second, but go back to where you started.

There's nothing soft when it comes to the conflict resolution.

And it is so true.

Talking about soft skills and kind of how we refer to it, you know, we've been talking about this quite a bit in 2025, given all the DIs and the conflict and the velocity of changes and trade policies and all this stuff.

And it's put such a heightened amount of pressure on our teams and our people and even more so the relationships that of course, make any supply chain ecosystem happen.

And that by extension, Rodney and Claudia puts more pressure on those soft skills, or whatever we want to call them, that help us navigate and problem solve even the most basic of problems or new profound global seismic complexities.

Right.

And going back to what Rodney said, how he's seen things flip.

Rodney, I think if I heard you right, back in the day, folks were coming out with tons and tons of soft skills.

They were very abundant.

And now they've got the hard skills, the data analytics, the technologists, the coding, you name it.

But there's a deficit of soft skills.

That is such an interesting shift that you point out right now.

I'm gonna give you the final word here on supply chain talent in this landscape we're in right now.

Yeah, it is interesting dynamic.

I think we can maybe.

I don't want to point there's one factor involved, but I do think we know that our younger generations kind of grow up with technology.

And while they're not born with a cell phone in their hand, you know, my kids are 7 and 10 and they can get on there and just.

It doesn't take them long to pick this stuff up.

And, you know, there's so many pros and cons to it, but I do think that that's communicating.

You know, see my son playing Fortnite and he's yelling and screaming like, I'm like, what are you doing?

Same.

Oh, gosh.

And it's.

It's just.

I just think it's just a different way they communicate.

And we have to again, back as educators, as parents, you know, we have to do a better job of letting them like resiliency, like, you know, letting them fail, letting them make mistakes, encouraging them to take initiatives that are going to bring out that confidence and courage on the communication side, it's you know, I don't think there's really one solution out there, but it is becoming a detriment on the leadership aspect and it certainly keeps us busy with leaders that just aren't cutting it.

I'm constantly asked to find, you know, these change agents and transformational leadership.

And it does come back to leading, you know, from out front, from that servant leadership model.

The generations today, you know, they have to be managed differently across generations.

And so companies need to embrace that diversity of the workforce and you know, the different wants and needs to be successful.

Explain the why, get them involved with the solution early on.

These folks don't like to be dropped.

Okay, here it is.

Now go do it.

They need to know the why, you know, you have to have a purpose type of environment.

So the culture, you know, is super important as well if you want to be able to attract and retain.

And one more comment on that too.

We talked about sustainability.

It's also, you know, nowadays with the cell phones and you got information overload everywhere, you know, people are enormously aware of what companies are doing, the waste they're putting out, the harm they're causing to the environment, and they're making conscious decisions on the types of products, types of companies that they're shopping for.

So to gain these customers, retain these customers.

And I would say that parallels into attracting entertaining talent, you need to have a focus on this as an employer if you want to bring in the best and retain the best as well.

Excellent, Rodney.

That branding, it's not just about customers, it's about gaining the top talent, any talent maybe.

But Claudia, you were nodding your head to a lot of points.

Rodney was saying there's pull out one or two of the most important things.

In your view that's coming out on the table here?

Well, I would venture to offer Ronnie a rethought on that connection with the talent balancing the need for employers to have talented and capable individuals with good people that you work with every day.

And so it's kind of like the phrase should be something like daily grind with a purpose, you know, because it's hard work to be in a corporate environment, whether it's a nonprofit that is going through a massive digital transformation, as we have done here at EAL with our friends at Oracle for the last three years.

Talk about change.

You need the skills and you also need the ability to work with good people that are going to come along and believe in your vision that the change is going to benefit everyone.

And this concept that Ronnie was talking about, I just Heard somebody launching a program on active listening.

So what was that, Claudia?

What was that exactly?

Very, very well played.

Active listening.

So who would have thought, right, that we need to be taught.

However it makes sense.

Because whether you're reading a book called Focus or you are going back to Simon Sinecik and talking about the purpose of why or why your why, it comes down to be able to communicate with the other person with respect, with empathy, with understanding.

And again, I think we, in some ways, because of the pandemic, we pushed it a little too much in terms of that we are all a family in corporations.

It doesn't work.

I mean, I love my team members, but they don't want to live and eat and talk the same thing 24 7.

Yeah, but it's a healthy balance.

That's why when I get out of here, I ride my bike and I don't want to see anybody that I talk to every day.

I have my E bike and I just go for miles or I go do aqua boxing.

That's the latest thing that I'm doing now.

It's because it is a healthy balance.

Right.

In having outside interest.

So that when you come back to deal with a problem that was left from yesterday on Monday afternoon or Friday, you do have the ability to pay attention, to show respect to the other person.

Most problems can be fixed if you have the people side of it in the right place.

Days.

Yes.

All right.

Lots of lessons learned from both of y' all here today.

I'm going to add.

So treat them like family in terms of your colleagues, but just know that they're not family and they need breaks and they want their own time and they need their own time where they forget about everything that happens at work.

That's a great call out a couple of things related and perhaps unrelated.

Both of y' all were referencing the explosion of supply chain management programs across the country.

And Claudia, you also kind of mentioned how we got to get there with reverse logistics.

I think you said, George, two schools only offering that.

You know what I might would suggest, because we've seen this, of course, when it comes to the marketing and the storytelling of what goes on in supply chain, you know, that's one of the things where supply chain has really upped its game as an industry and pulling talent in.

And clearly, by extension, we're telling the story of why we need our own programs out in the academia landscape.

And that's really just the art of storytelling and how it continues to permeate more and more the global supply chain.

Is an interesting one.

And Claudia, I am am very optimistic that as reverse logistics and returns management and the whole circularity movement garners more steam, we're going to be able to tell that story and answer that why to where we'll have hundreds of programs related to that craft across the globe as well.

And then the other thing, some good news folks.

We talked a lot about the profession and jobs and careers and stuff.

So folks, a couple weeks ago I was talking about and I've got it right over here.

So that's why I'm using my cheat sheet over here.

The Future of Jobs report is put out by the World Economic Forum and it's chock full of data.

I think they interviewed over a thousand global employers.

We're not going to do it justice here.

But a couple things, Rodney and Claudia both talked about investing in our team members in a broad way.

But Caterpillar, the report talks about how 39% of workers existing skill sets on average will be transformed or they'll become outdated by 2030 is what the data suggests from this report from World Economic Forum.

If that does it scream at you and brought it in shining lights and loud noises like Rodney Apples driving behind you and you just throwing something out the window.

It should because we got to invest in ourselves, we got to invest in our teams because that's the pace of things, right?

And to that end, Caterpillar, they're investing $100 million over the next five years in their team upskilling in robotics, automation, artificial intelligence technologies including digital twins and machine language models, helping their team members add to their skill sets, add to their promotability, add to their hireability, makeability, you name it.

That's good news and hopefully we'll see more companies like that take similar steps.

Claudia and Rodney, as I was sharing this report a couple weeks ago, one of my dear friends Theo in the comments said something like and I can't pull it up.

It said something like that's wonderful and we all need to learn and be educated, but whose responsibility is it?

Is it the employers?

Is it the industry?

Is it the individual?

And that instantly brought a circle of finger pointing in my mind.

So Rodney, quick comment there on companies investing in their team members.

The skillset shifts and then we're going to make sure folks know how to connect with you both.

Rodney, quick thoughts there.

Yeah, I'll share some thoughts on you talk about AI and automation in particular and I think if you look at the automation piece and Scott, I know you've interviewed plenty of people like this on your podcast, but a lot of it is trying to whether they save money or break even from What I hear CEOs are looking at this and heads of supply chain is really getting rid of those mundane jobs, the ones that generate all the workers.

Comp claims the high turnover roles that lead to unemployment claims those are the jobs that are being replaced.

That's the highest priority.

And so we're seeing that as a way to kind of help really get rid of those tough jobs.

Secondly, I think it's a great way to retain, I think companies that have robots or cobots as they're calling them are winning the talent race people.

It's a cool, you know when you got, you're working alongside of some super cool technology, it helps with retention of employees as well.

So we're seeing that.

I think the AI piece too is very similar.

It's, it's getting rid of those mundane, what I would say more like tasks, repetitive tasks, a lot of ways to automate, gain a lot more productivity in turn freeing up employees to work on more value generating activities for their employers.

So those are my comments and then the last thing I want to bring up is and this is becoming a big concern as we talk to you know, chief supply chain officers and heads of manufacturing or heads of HR is in operations.

And so we're seeing as we talk about these 125/univers universities teaching supply chain, a lot of it's technology, engineering, STEM type programs, call it the sexier side of supply chain if you will.

A whole lot of people are moving into those functions and they're avoiding the roles in operations, whether it be manufacturing.

And we can certainly talk about a lot of reshoring and near shoring and what are we going to do to fill all these manufacturing jobs that are coming with all these many billion dollars of investments that we've been reading about here lately.

And pharmaceutical is an example.

But a lot of people are concerned about, you know, it goes back to what I said earlier around the gaps in mid management and upper management.

We're not seeing the newer generations pursue careers in warehousing, distribution, manufacturing.

And so that's creating a big sounding the alarm if you will.

How are we going to get people interested in those opportunities.

And I think it goes full circle to technology and you know, the automation and the robots, I mean that's a way to get people into it.

And then chief supply chain officers are worried about where are my next chief supply chain officers coming from if they don't go out in the operations?

We're not going to hire them.

They can't just be a pure technology person or somebody that just does, you know, forecast.

It might be a cobot, Rodney.

Maybe a cobot.

Might be a cobot.

Yeah.

So those are the.

That's my take on this.

And I think back to your point is that the employees responsibility, employer and it's all of the above.

You know, we've.

That's right.

We have to.

You own your career and if you don't take that mindset of owning your career, someone will own it for you.

I've always said that you have to be proactive and then the employer's job is to understand where people want to go and really help and develop and support them in getting there.

Love it, Rodney.

All right, Claudia, your thoughts on really anything we've talked about here today before we make sure folks know how to connect with you.

Both your final thoughts here.

First of all, I want to say thank you, Rodney and Scott and your entire team for having us here.

Of course, the way that we have experience at EAL, we are 12 employees.

We are a nonprofit organization.

We are very fortunate and blessed to work with pro bono companies that have the expertise, whether is Dell Technologies lending their best and brightest to help us put together a business plan or our friends at Oracle and netsuite with rolling out some AI features which we are very excited to be talking about at the upcoming Suite World conference in Las Vegas in October.

So what we have seen that the organization can be very small, can be very, very large, but technology has enabled EAL to make this idea of innovation more visible, more accessible to some of the employees that probably were so focused, as you said, on the day to day, the operational thing that they didn't have the opportunity to focus on, you know, what is all this technology about?

So for us, we have used technology as a way to integrate their point of views, their experience.

And as a result of that, we have seen a higher engagement within our small workforce as a result of technology.

The other thing that we have found is that when you have a culture, as we talked at the very beginning of, of innovation and thinking out of the box, developing that value proposition in a cultural sense at an organization remains very important.

So it's one more thing that CEOs have to worry about, right?

It's not only are you doing all the right things that the environment, policymakers and banks expect, but are you cultivating an atmosphere, communicating your values, living by example and that service oriented mentality which is so important and CEOs need to take the time to be able to.

To think about what does that mean?

And to continue to be a good role model.

Because when you have a lifelong learner, I mean, my daughters are 34 years old, and I hope that they continue to learn the rest of their lives.

But you guys have young kids, so develop that appetite for being curious and loving books or whatever mechanism they learn.

But when you have a team of individuals that are motivated by learning, I believe that tall mountain of soft skills, it's a little easier to climb.

Well said.

I like picturing that tall mountain of soft skills, as you mentioned, much better than that tall mountain of landfill out in my neck of the woods here.

But, Claudia, well said.

I love your challenges.

I love the questions that you mentioned that CEOs or really any leader need to be asking themselves.

And of course, Rodney, I really appreciate what you've shared and some of the shifts, those important shifts that are taking place that you brought out to our attention.

Y' all both have got a really long track record of doing big things in industry and.

And great to have both of y' all here.

So let's do this.

I want to make sure that our audience out there, smartest audience all of the land, can make y' all their friend as much as I've made y' all my friend, because I'll tell you, they bring a lot to the table.

So, Claudia Freed, President CEO with EAL Green.

How can folks connect with you?

They can come to Supply Chain now and find me there.

Secondly, LinkedIn.

Claudia Fried, eilgreen.org I enjoy posting content that relates to.

Relates to the life that we live here in Chicago and Beyond.

Obviously, our eal green.org we are a nonprofit, so that all means that we are a 501c3 organization.

Click in there.

Contact me on that platform as well.

Just that easy.

Outstanding.

I appreciate that, Claudia.

And lots of events Claudia's out, including some that she keynotes.

We talked about.

Promat.

That was really cool to see you there.

Okay.

Rodney Apple, managing partner at SCM Talent Group, as well as folks you got to check out.

I think we've got an image from some of your last episodes there.

Supply Chain Careers podcast, highly ranked.

You can find it wherever you get your podcast from.

Good work that Rodney and the team are doing, I think uncovering people's journey and their eureka moments, whether they're reflecting back or kind of, you know, what they see in the path ahead.

Doing great work there, Rodney.

I appreciate that.

Helping a lot of folks.

How can folks track you down.

It's pretty simple.

Scott.

SEM.

I think we all know what that stands for.

Supply chain management.

Right?

Right.

Semtalent.com and I think what you'll find there.

I know a lot of folks come in looking for jobs and whatnot, but I've taken my decades of experience and recruiting in this fascinating space of supply chain and one of our core values is giving back.

And what that means is not just charitable contributions but sharing our thoughts and advice in terms of we really strive to be at that intersection of supply chain and talent.

So there's a wealth of it's mostly educational, advice oriented content on how things folks can really accelerate advance their careers in supply chain, you know, from early stage to, you know, leadership and beyond.

So I just wanted to kind of highlight that that's really what our podcast is about.

It's me as the supply chain talent guy and we got three legs of the stool.

It's Chris Gaffney's supply chain executive who's one of the best leaders and developers of people I've ever come across.

And then we've got Dr.

Mike Ogle who is our supply chain academia guy.

And that's the three different perspectives we bring.

Is the, the, is the academia somebody that's been a real live executive I worked with at Coca Cola, Chris Gaffney and myself as that talent person.

So.

And obviously LinkedIn there might be one other Rodney Apple on there, but gotta add D easy to put me into Google.

You're gonna, I've got a unique name so you're gonna find me and so just I welcome invites on LinkedIn and I'm always happy to help folks out whether they need help with talent or whether they need help with their own careers.

Outstanding.

Appreciate that.

Big thanks.

Claudia Fried and Rodney Apple, two of the best out there.

Really enjoyed Yalls perspective and expertise that y' all shared with us here on the Buzz.

Folks, we may run over a couple minutes.

My apologies.

We just had so much to get to and a lot of value there.

I got my 18 pages of notes from Claudia and Rodney here today, but here's the deal.

First off, I want to thank Amanda and Tricia behind the scenes for helping to make production happen each and every day.

And of course, big thanks to our global audience for joining smartest one in all the land.

We'll be back live next week, so stay tuned.

But here you go.

Home homework.

It's a big homework assignment because Claudia and Rodney really brought it here today.

You got to take one thing you learned from our esteemed panel here today and put it into practice.

Share it with the team.

It's all about deeds, not words.

That's how we're going to transform how we do supply chain, leaving no one behind, creating opportunities, helping them develop themselves, learn new things, and stay ahead in these ever faster moving times.

So with all that said, on behalf the entire Supply Chain now team Scott Luden, Challenge you.

Do good, give forward.

Be the change that's needed.

We'll see you next time right back here on Supply Chain Now.

Thanks everybody.

Join the Supply Chain now community.

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