Foreign.

Welcome to around the House with Eric G. Your trusted source for all things home improvement.

Whether you're tackling a DIY project, hiring it out, or just trying to keep your home running smoothly, you're in the right place.

With over 30 years of remodeling experience, certified kitchen designer Eric G. Takes you behind the scenes with expert advice, industry trends and the latest innovations for your home.

And John Dudley, former contractor and contractor business consultant is here today in the copilot seat.

It's everything you need to know without the fluff.

Now here's your host, Eric G. Welcome.

To the around the House show, the next generation of home improvement.

I'm Eric G. Thanks for joining us today.

We have back in the studio from his infamous move that we talked about last weekend.

John Dudley.

Welcome back, brother.

Thanks, brother.

Thanks for having me.

How's things good?

Crazy city there.

Yeah, you got some nice new digs.

I like it.

Not too bad, not too bad.

A little smaller than I like, but it's all right for now.

Yeah, it doesn't have that third floor recording studio, does it?

But that's the next one, right?

No, it's got my drums right here next to me, next to the kitchen.

Still looking for space here.

Yeah, you'll get it.

You'll get it today, brother.

I wanted to talk about our annual show that we do and that is the 2025 Cost vs. Value report.

We teased a little bit about it last week and I was a little scared because they got bought out.

It used to be Remodeling magazine and they owned it forever.

Now a company called Zonda had bought it and it seemed like it was a few weeks late and I was like, oh, are they going to continue to do that?

Thankfully, it's out again.

And this is such a great thing for homeowners, for contractors, for anybody out there, because what's the biggest question people have?

What's this going to cost me?

What's it cost to have somebody come in and do this project?

And this project is really something.

That's what it's going to cost if you pay a licensed bond and insured contractor to come do it for you.

And one thing that I want to say that's not on this is that we have that brand new 50% tariff that's coming out or that came out this week on imported bathroom vanities, kitchen cabinets and materials of the.

So all of those, this has been a battle we've talked about for probably seven or eight years on the show.

But that's something that's pretty new that just came out this week.

So all of those kind of RTA imported stuff is going to be way more expensive in October.

So that's just something for everybody to think about of how that's going to work.

Johnny, you ready to dive in on this man?

Because I know you're going to be shocked by some of these prices.

Because I'm shocked on some of these prices and you haven't been in the states for a couple years.

Yeah, I'm a little out of the loop.

So yeah, I'm excited to hear what kind of craziness has gone on up there.

So here's the lumber quotes and things like that from my little brother and I'm like, you what?

Huh?

What?

Yeah, no.

Insanity it is, brother.

Here we go.

I want to talk about what a mid range miner kitchen model is.

And you can look at the numbers on it, but it doesn't really tell the story right.

So it's all about the specs just like any building project.

So a mid range minor kitchen remodel is to update a functional but dated 200 square foot kitchen.

You're leaving the cabinet boxes of 30 lineal feet in place.

But you're replacing the fronts with new shaker style wood panels and drawer fronts including new hardware.

Replace the cooktop oven range and a slide in refrigerator with new energy efficient models.

Install mid price sink and faucet.

You're replacing that 30 lineal feet of laminate countertop and repainting trim.

You're adding paint or wall coverings.

Remove and replace resilient flooring.

So it's about as cheap of a fluff and buff as you're going to get.

You're not putting in the quartz countertops, you're not doing the stainless steel appliances right, all those things.

And then you're not changing the design, you're just trying to make it look a little better.

You're just updating your rental is what it sounds like.

Yeah.

Really.

I mean it's.

I wouldn't call it mid range.

I'd call it about as basic as you can get without doing anything to it.

The national average on this cost job cost is 28,458.

So that's what that is to have somebody do it.

Now if you were in Seattle where you and I used to be, that's at 32, 271.

So here's the interesting part though.

The resale value at 28,458 is at 32,141.

So you get 112.9% return on that.

So if you were to go put your house in the market, that's 12% in the bank, which isn't bad for a remodeling project.

So the next one here gets crazy.

This is your mid range and this is what I call more of the.

I don't know if you call it's a mid range.

So let's talk about that because that's interesting.

The mid range one here.

Update the Same kind of 200 square foot kitchen with semi custom wood cabinets.

Installing a 3 by 5 island laminate countertops, standard double tub, stainless steel sink with single over faucet, energy efficient range ventilation system, microwave, dishwasher, garbage disposal, custom lighting, the same new resilient flooring.

So you got like quick flooring in there.

And finished with painted walls, trim and ceiling.

So this is where this gets insane.

And it comes down to cabinetry.

And if you're buying American made cabinetry, that's cool.

If you're buying something that's imported, it's going way up.

That job cost now jumped to 80 2007, 93 on average.

Now if you're in the countertops, that's laminate countertops.

Yeah.

That makes my stomach ache.

Right, it does mine too.

If you're in Seattle, hold your beer.

95, 542.

Come on.

Right.

And these are like mid range appliances, Delta faucets, nothing fancy.

They're not in there.

No.

You're getting every 100k.

Yeah.

So cost recouped on the national average is 50.9%.

So every dollar you spend, you get 50 cents back.

Now this is why I wanted to start out with kitchens.

To hit the good, better, best on here.

When we go to the upscale, this is where you got to hold on to your wallet.

And again it comes down to the specs.

Again same 200 square foot island kitchen with 30 lineal feet of custom white cabinets with built in sliding shelves, stone countertops, ceramic backsplash under mount sink, designer faucet, water filtration system built in refrigerator, commercial grade cooktop and vent hood, wall oven built in microwave, low voltage under cabinet lights, tile flooring, things like that.

You know what I, what you would almost call an upper mid range.

Right?

This is fly on Mercer Island.

Yeah, exactly.

This is just that nicer house in the neighborhood.

National average 164.

$104.

Dude, that's about a hundred K more than what we were doing exactly that for granted 15 years ago.

Yeah, 100 grand more.

That's that's.

You just listed out a $65,000 kitchen.

Yeah, yep, exactly.

Yep.

And I was putting that stuff.

I can picture a kitchen I did in Mercer island.

The white cabinets, the big island, the D. And it was like 62, five or something like that.

Exactly.

Now in Seattle it's $188,000.

So at a get out of town.

Four more thousand dollars to that.

So now here's the bad part.

Your cost recouped is 35.7% not agreed.

Fancy.

That's what you get for being fancy.

And that's.

And again, that's why you're seeing more and more people do the diy right.

It just adds up.

Just adds up.

So those are just the basics on a kitchen model.

So I know people are sitting there going, holy smokes, this is getting expensive.

One of the things that you notice in here though too is that the cost recouped is what an appraiser would say you get.

The cost recouped is.

But like with my house for instance, that I was selling.

The interesting part of that is you might not get the cost recoup, but maybe it'll help you sell the house.

So you got to keep that in mind.

If you're selling a, let's say a $400,000 house in a neighborhood and you look up the comps in your area like an appraiser would and they all have new kitchens and you've got a 35 year old kitchen, you're probably going to be the lowest on the totem pole.

Unless you got a pool or something cool that somebody wants.

So that's the thing.

Half the time, half the time you're going to sell it and return on investment be damned.

Because if kitchen's ugly, it's got to be fixed.

That's the first thing they look at, kitchen.

It's the main part of the house, return or not.

If you want to get your house sold within whatever you want, if you want to let it sit on the market for a year and have to knock your price down anyway, that's the money you lose that you could have spent on just updating the kitchen, even medium.

Yeah, absolutely.

It still would have looked better than what you had.

Now when we come back, let's talk about bath remodels and then after that we'll talk about what some of the best returns are because that's where the money is, where you can get the most for your dollar.

We'll do that just as soon as around the house returns don't change that dial.

That's a wrap for this segment of around the don't go anywhere.

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Welcome back to the around the House show, the next generation of home improvement.

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Com.

Johnny and I have been talking here and I wish we were doing this live because the discussions we have offline sometimes is kind of crazy.

But we're talking during the break here.

I mean, I tell you what, this stuff is expensive on this cost value report and how much it has gone up this year is absolutely insane.

And what's funny too is the values have tweaked a little bit as well of what the return would be if you're going to put it up for sale.

It's just wild.

As you well know right now.

Selling your own place.

Absolutely.

So let's dive into this one here.

So bath remodels mid range.

And again let's go into this one because this one, it's funny when you read this because when you read this you have to pay attention to what they say and what they don't say.

So the mid range bathroom bottle is updated.

An existing 5x7 bathroom.

Actually, let's do this one here.

I'm going to go here.

Yeah, we'll go the mid range first.

Yeah, we'll go mid range.

So 5 by 7 bathroom with ceramic tile floor.

And this is your general hall bath where you got like 7ft long, 5 foot wide tubs in the end.

We all seen them out there.

You're gonna put in that a 30 by 60 porcelain on steel tub, which is about the cheapest tub you can get.

It is with a ceramic tile surround, new single lever shower control.

Replace fixtures with new standard white toilet, solid surface.

Vanity counter with integral sink and recessed medicine cabinet with light.

What's it not say?

Cabinets.

Yeah.

You're gonna reuse or paint or you.

Know, reuse a poly top on the cabinet that's there.

Yep, absolutely.

So again, this is not a mid range.

This is about as cheap as you're gonna do it.

So now if we go into these prices, this is where it gets crazy.

And what's sad is you might be taking out some acrylic tub that's way nicer, you know, and putting a steel one.

It's not good except for the fact that it's peak.

Well, very good.

I like the peach ones.

It's coming back.

Coming back.

You would national average 26,138 bucks with an cost recoup.

Yeah.

That used to be an $8,000 job.

Yeah.

Now if you want to do it in Seattle, better come up with another 10 grand because it's 36, 146.

Get out.

Dude, that's insane.

Yeah.

And I'll tell you why.

When you start looking at some of these cities and here's my little soapbox real quick, people go, what are you talking about?

Why is it that when you look at what the permit fees for some of these cities on the left coast out here is, it's insane.

Like they just removed, I think last week in or the week before in Portland, a problem where if I did a kitchen model or a remodeling project that was over 25 grand, your perm, your permits, instead of just getting a counter permit for it, it went over to urban forestry.

And they told you if you didn't have enough trees, you'd have to plant up to three trees for cost of about 3,500 bucks in your yard for your kitchen remodel.

What on earth?

You didn't have enough trees in the neighborhood.

So we would get 3,500 hobbies.

Yeah, we're creating crap like that.

It's because people don't have enough hobbies.

Come on.

Actually, I mean, I like trees, but trees are great.

They make good cabinets.

Yeah, they're the ones that are going to be blocking up the sewer system.

They're the ones that are lifting the sidewalks out front.

You know, the City workers busy.

Yeah, absolutely.

So that one's kind of interesting, you know, really as far as a mid range, you do get a 80% return on that.

Now let's go to the upscale which is what I call a regular simple bath remodel.

That one is interesting.

So same five by seven hall bath.

So you're going to do and this is where it gets interesting here.

You're going to expand it to 100 square feet with a large ceramic tile floor in floor heating, 42 by 42 Neo angle shower or ceramic tile walls, body spray fixtures, frameless glass shower enclosure.

Add heated towel bars.

Install freestanding soaker tub with high end faucets and a compartmentalized commode area with a one piece toilet.

Install custom vanity and stone countertop with two sinks.

So really I wouldn't call that an upscale bathroom model.

I call that an average master bath remodel.

Yeah, fair.

That's not really upscale.

That's just kind of that master bath.

Upscale I think would not be the right word for that.

But if we go into that one here, national average $81,612 with a 41.7%.

Now hold on to your beer people because it's $107.451 in Seattle with a 35%.

So insane, thousand dollar bathroom remodels.

Yeah.

So I'm going to.

Let's take a look at building one for grandma.

You're going into grandma or your parents or whoever's house or maybe it's even your own and you want to do an ADA type bathroom.

You know, so something that is universal design.

So you're going to take a five by seven space that's going to be wheelchair accessible, zero threshold, 36 inch wide door, flat panel, electric switches at sitting level.

Replace toilet with comfort height fixture featuring elongated bowl, bidet type circle.

You're going to take out the existing bathtub.

Install curbless tiled walk in shower, adjustable shower head, fold out seat, bi directional glass door.

You're going to put in flooring with radiant heat beneath luxury vinyl tile flooring.

Install adaptive living vanity with easy grip handles, LED lights, infrared ceiling height, night light, ultra quiet vent fan, humidity sensing, ceramic tiles on walls nine and a pac man machine.

You see where I'm going.

We're getting into the full ADA but like it, make it look pretty situation here.

So this is what that cost is.

Now this cost is.

Oh, I don't even looked at it yet.

But that cost is going to be so much cheaper than putting grandma on a home but this is where it's going to get crazy.

$83 with a 61.2% return.

Now in Seattle, that's at 58, 151.

So that is crazy.

Without the Pac man machine.

Yeah, your eyes are like as big as.

I can't.

It's ridiculous.

It's ridiculous.

If it came with a Pac man machine, I'd be down.

Okay, there you go.

Now the last one here I want to hit before we go out to break, which is crazy here.

Now this is the bathroom edition, upscale.

So there's ones we're skipping over here because we're not going to hit all of these.

But this is kind of the next one.

So you want to do a bathroom addition.

You're like, I like my house.

It's smaller.

It's got one and a half baths in it that I've got on the market.

And that one there, people really want a two bath house.

So I looked at doing this.

So an upscale bathroom addition is adding a 100 sq ft primary bathroom with large ceramic tile floor in floor heating.

You know, basically it's the other one.

So you're going to do the 42 by 42 new angle shower, tile everywhere, glass door, soaker tub, you know, one piece toilet.

All the things that we talked about before.

So you're taking that upscale remodel and doing it as a bath addition now.

Dude, this is insane.

If you're looking at that bathroom addition for the mid range, sorry, upscale, 111,255 with a 36.4.

Now if you're in Seattle, it's going to cost a little bit more.

That's $146,000 to add about $146,000 to add a bathroom.

How many houses I bought for less than that?

I know now we're sounding like old boomers.

Now.

I am old.

So I'll just cough it up.

I'll tell you what, you find me, find me the bathroom model that comes with a tiger and costs be damned.

I mean, yeah, man, that is incredible.

All right, we come back for break, guys.

We're going to talk about some of the ones on here that will give you the best return.

And then the last segment, we're going to talk about the bottom ones that are the ones that give you the worst return.

We'll do that just as soon as around the House returns.

Stick around.

We're hitting the pause button to check our blueprints.

Don't start remodeling without us.

Around the House returns in a FL welcome back to the around the house show.

If you want to find out more about the show, catch us at aroundthehouseonline.com now let's get back to the show with Eric G. And Johnny D. Welcome.

Back to the around the house show.

The next generation of home improvement.

Thanks for joining me today.

I'm sitting here with my good friend and co host here, John Dudley.

Thanks for coming back this week and man, your house is looking good.

We talked about it in the first segment, but I like the background there, man.

Coming together.

Yeah.

Notice the amp takes center stage.

Of course, it's more important than television above it.

There's a television above it.

But really it's all about the amp.

It's all about the app.

Well, the amp cost more than the television, so that's the first thing that I'm certain of.

Well, this segment here in our cost versus value report.

I wanted to talk about kind of the top ones that give you the biggest return.

What are the things as you as a homeowner go, all right, my money's tight.

If I'm going to spend money, I want it to make a difference to the value of my home.

And I thought what not.

Best to go down through the list here and talk about the top ones.

The first one, the biggest one, garage door replacement.

Got that wood garage door or that cheesy dented up, you know, stamp steel white one with no insulation in it that looks, you know, looks like it's been hit with hail or somebody cut a hole in it to make the garage into a grow room.

Yeah, I've seen that many times.

We all know the one.

We all know the ones.

Those are the ones that really can get a big difference here on return.

So what you're going to do is it's going to remove, Dispose of existing 16x7 garage door, install 4 section garage door with lifetime warranty on new heavy duty galvanized steel tracks.

Going to reuse the existing motor.

Knee door is high tensile strength steel with two coats of factory applied paint, foam insulated to a minimum of R12 with thermal seals between pinch resistant panels.

And it's got glass in the top.

So pretty standard.

Maybe it's even that 1980s wagon wheel design where you got the wagon wheels across the top, right?

Yep.

Which yeah, every spec home did 20 years ago.

I'll tell you what though, it's amazing how much people will look past once they get inside the house with a new front door and a new garage door.

Amen.

And a fresh coat of Paint on the exterior.

Like it's first impression, Right.

So they drive up and oh, wow, that's a nice looking place.

Your bathroom could be dated.

You're, you know, all these other things.

It's funny because I'm going through this with my mom right now.

She's on taps island.

She's.

I gotta fix all these things to sell the place.

I gotta paint all the trim in the house.

And I'm like, mom, stop.

Like you got a new roof on the place, you got a new garage door.

They don't care about the baseboards being painted.

Trust me.

And how screwed up can they be?

She lives there alone.

It's not like she's got nine kids kicking the baseboards all day.

No.

So pick your battles.

When you're thinking about all this stuff, that's I guess what I'm trying to say.

Oh yeah.

Super important.

Super important.

Well, this is crazy.

So groceries gone up a little bit, but not that crazy.

Well, average 4,672.

Resale value 12,507.

So that is a 267% value add.

Now I was just going to say for 4k, 4500.

Worth every penny for that first impression.

Man, that's a great way to put your dollar in.

Seattle's not too bad actually.

If you look up there as an example, you know, they're only up 5,290.

So that's probably just sales tax.

Yeah, yeah, right.

You know, that's not too bad up there.

Really.

So really that's, that's a big deal.

When I added online, I went all out.

And again, depending on where you're at, these garage doors could be more.

Because if you're in Florida, they have to have ones.

Or Gulf coast states, they have to have stuff that's hurricane rated.

So they got.

Yeah.

You know, steel brackets behind them.

You know mine, I did, I did a clue pay about four years ago that they built it out of aluminum.

It's all glass panels that are, that are the frosted look, it's a black powder coat.

But what they did is when they built it, instead of just having those cheesy foam panels in it, they inserted spray foam in it.

So it's super solid.

So you can't hear a car park up out in front of it.

It's super quiet, which is what I wanted because I was recording the show in there at the time.

So that was.

Right.

You know, it was really cool to have that.

And man, talk about insulated.

Even with the glass, it Was cool.

Oh it was super cool.

But that's the big one right there.

That's the number one out of those.

Now the next one here is interesting and a close second.

You just talked about it.

Entry door replacement steel.

2435 is the job cost on that with a 52, 75,270 dollar resale value.

So that's at 206, 216.4% starting to.

I'm not going to say, not going to say $2,500 is cheap to put a front door in.

But if you spent fifteen hundred dollars on a nice door, okay, you're in.

There and what they say on this, just to give you the, the, the show on this one and this is kind of an interesting one.

You're taking a 3068 entry door jams replaced with a new 20 gauge steel unit.

It's got a half glass panel jams, aluminum threshold composite stop.

Factory finished, same color both sides.

Brick mold.

Get the casings, replace the existing lock set with a new board lock.

So yeah, it's.

Yeah.

Nice.

That's a mid range door.

Yeah.

You know it's not the cheapest, not the most expensive, not the $199.

Stanley.

Yeah, yeah, not too bad.

So if you look here, the next one is up there close in that same game.

Actually a little bit better on that one.

So manufactured stone veneer to the front of the house.

Really?

So what they're saying on the manufactured stone veneer, which is interesting and I think this is one of those that you go wow, okay, you're going to take away 300 square feet of existing siding from the bottom third of the street facing facade.

Replace with ad veneer including 36 lineal feet of sills, 40 lineal feet of corners, one address block, two layers of water resistant barrier over bare sheathing, corrosion resistant lath and fasteners, half inch mortar, scratch coat setting bed outline the archway using a 8 by 10 keystone.

Now I would save some money.

I probably wouldn't do the stone veneer like that.

If it was me, I'd do my friends over at Evolved Stone because then you just don't have to worry about the mason out there.

You probably haven't seen this product Johnny, but Evolve stone, you hang it up, it looks just like stone.

It's made out of a fiberglass composite material and you nail it up there so it just finish nailer nice.

So you don't have to have all that other stuff in there.

So it really holds up I think better than that.

But stone veneer in 702 to do that values at 24,328 on the.

On the national average.

So a 207.9% return.

Again, exterior, aesthetic, man, it's so important.

Now, here's what's interesting in Seattle.

This is where style starts to come into this.

Yeah, for sure.

Style comes into this.

Seattle is either very old houses, which aren't old.

They're just like 1920s, 1930s, 1940s.

Not much beyond the late 1800s in Seattle, but they're a more contemporary market, for sure.

So what was on the national average, an $11,000 cost is only 13,643 in Seattle.

The return on a national average is 24,328.

The return in Seattle is only 12,244.

People go, I don't care.

That looks like a midwestern house.

It doesn't fit the market.

So their return is only 89.7.

So that's where it gets a little interesting there is it has to fit the market as well.

Yeah.

I mean, stone facade doesn't really fit in a lot of places Unless it's, you know, gated communities.

Like, they did some of those places out in puyallup where they got these modern homes.

They built a ton in the 90s and the 2000s.

They all had the stone around them, and it was cute and neat.

But, you know, you don't do it in Arizona.

Exactly.

Yeah.

You just don't see it the same way.

So it's.

It's just depending on the.

On the market and what you're doing.

Before we go out to break here, Just wanted to hit some of the other ones that we're close to on that, that were kind of honorable mentions.

Is you're getting up there fiber cement siting.

And I want to talk about that super quick, because fiber cement siding.

National average gave you 113.7% return, but again, it cost eight more thousand to do it in Seattle.

So you only got a 56.2% return there.

So, you know, what was 113 on a national average is only 56.7 return.

Again, that's one of those things that you look at and go, wow, that's crazy.

So the other one is there wasn't.

Yeah.

Enough reasons to maybe want to leave Seattle.

Well, I left Seattle, so that tells you something.

Sorry, Seattle.

I say that with all the love in my heart.

Absolutely.

I still go out there and get another trip planned to get up there, because I just love it.

But Living there was getting too crazy.

The other one here, that's interesting, that's newer on this list is a backup power generator for when you lose power.

95.3% return rate, 13,534 is the national average.

12,902.

The problem is, is in Seattle it's a $17,000 project with an 8,600.

So again, what was 95% is 50% in Seattle, which is crazy because they got plenty of storms up there and you lose a lot of power.

So that one is a little bit of a head scratcher.

Now when we come back, I want to talk about the worst investments you can do for your house.

We'll do that just as soon as.

Around the House returns grabbing a quick break to tighten some loose screws.

Ours, not yours.

Around the house.

We'll be back before your paint dries.

Welcome back to the around the House show, the next generation of home improvement.

We have been sitting here talking about the cost versus value report for 2025 through 2026.

And this is an interesting one.

And in this last segment, Johnny, I wanted to talk about really what are the worst investments out there?

And some of these are shocking at how high price they are, which again, many of these most expensive projects just don't give you the return that you think you're getting.

But again, it has to fall into the context of what your home is, you know, and what you're getting out of it.

One of the most impressive things too is these costs are insane.

So the number one that I see on this list on a national basis is that primary suite edition upscale.

So that's adding that master bedroom, master bathroom on there.

On a national average that's a $351,000 addition with an 18 return rate.

Now in Seattle, that's a Fuller with a 15.9% return rate.

And goodbye.

Yeah, yeah.

You're not getting that back, brother.

You're not.

Next time, which space do you need to sleep?

Come on.

Yeah, I think coming up here on second is the primary suite edition mid range, the 175 17.

That's got a 32.3% return rate.

Now some of these are getting pretty crazy here too.

When you get into some of this other stuff in here, solar power installation on a national average dollars 937.

So 55,000 bucks, almost 56,000 bucks.

Adds value of 16, 6, 25.

So you get a 29.7 return on that investment.

Now you'd think in Seattle where they're pro solar Pro everything else up there?

Not at all.

I don't know why they never see the sun.

I don't know.

Yeah, exactly.

We can make that fun of that.

That's why my doctor goes, where do you live?

Oh, you need vitamin D. Let's try out with four times the legal limit, 69,330 in Seattle with a 24.2% return.

So that's just not good money, not good money on that.

Now there could be, you know, I think maybe some of them are gone, but you could have some rebates and things like that that could change it.

But that's where you really got to take a look at that.

So really, when you go down the list, any of the upper end things that you do have a low return rate, even metal roofing at 51,865 is a 50% return rate.

And so like your bathroom additions and the upscale and the suite, it's all in the mid-30s as far as your return rates.

And so that's where the expense goes.

Darn right.

It gets crazy.

Now on what's interesting is you can go on this list, Johnny, as a consumer, put in your zip code or put in your city that's closest to you and they have it in many of the markets in your area.

So you just pick your region, go in there and you can look it up for yourself and see what the dollars are here and what it's going to work out for you.

But it's very interesting on here some of the new stuff they've done like H vac conversion, electrification.

So basically I think on that you're adding a heat pump.

Let's look at the specs on that.

Let's see if we go into that one.

And it's, this is kind of interesting too because H vac equipment has gone up so, so high.

It's absolutely insane.

If you haven't done an H VAC system in 10 or 15 years, hold on to your wallet.

It's not going to be, not going to be comfortable because the changes they've made to going to greener refrigerants in there, to getting the most out of it with the computers that work and all that stuff.

It gets crazy.

So you're going to go from a fossil fuel furnace to an electric heat pump, basically.

So you're going to remove and dispose of existing natural gas, propane oil furnace, install electric heat pump and heat to cool, heat and cool 2,000 square foot home.

So you're going to take out any existing metal ductwork that can't be used.

Patch drywall, touch up paint.

This isn't even.

This is doing a mini split heat pump.

This isn't even using the existing ducting.

So this is taking out everything and putting in the mini splits.

Now.

I understand.

So you're going to have new wiring for service from the service panel, five line sets, five indoor wall units in that 2,000 square foot.

So you're just abandoning the whole thing, which me seems way high on this because I look at that and go, you probably could have put in a.

A central H vac system and earlier easier.

But that's okay as far as.

Tell me, because I got a guess.

You got a guess?

All right, let's do this.

I think.

I think it's tripled at least.

You're close.

You're close.

National average 19,004.

84 with a 72.1% rate now.

Well, I had it figured at what six grand used to do for us, and I tripled it and I figured 18.

So I was pretty damn close.

You're right.

Right there.

Except, Johnny, that was the national average, not the Seattle average.

Where you were.

There's always a but.

There's always the but right In Seattle, it's gone way worse.

$26,000 with a 36.8% return rate.

Man, Think about this.

I put in right before COVID It was the best timing ever.

In 2019, I put in a new central heating and cooling system on my house.

I had just an electric central furnace.

That was it.

Now I did more stuff to it.

I added the ac.

I put in a dual zone so my bedroom upstairs would have its own thermostat and retail.

Back then, that was like $26,000.

And that project now is probably 32, 33 easily.

And that's what's interesting.

So that adds up really quick.

So here's the thing.

And this is one of the things I learned of putting my house on the market.

If you're doing any of these things that are here, you really need to talk first.

If you're going to be selling in five years, have your preferred realtor come over and have a chat with you and run some comps.

Because I actually had to dial back some of the project stuff at my.

Because I wasn't going to get the return out of it.

Because I looked at stuff.

And for the square footage of mine, unless you have someone that comes in with a cash offer, you still have to pass that appraisal, and you still have to pass all of those other things.

And so if you've got a $400,000 house that you put a bunch of money in, you, I'm going to sell it for 525.

And there's no house anywhere near you that's selling in that area.

Price point is 450 squad.

Unless someone's going to pay cash for it, which is kind of rare, you're not going to pass appraisal, which means they have to come up with more money or you're just not going to sell it because the deal's going to fall through.

You see that mistake a lot with people that are out there thinking they're going to flip something, they're going to put it in this really nice kitchen to all it up that way over, build or remodel for the neighborhood.

And that's exactly the issue.

The bank's like, it won't appraise for even within $200,000 of what you just put into it.

Sorry.

Gonna have to wait a few years, son.

Yeah, like that's a.

That's a tough cookie to swallow.

I've had two buddies of mine that are not really in the building.

They're handy, but not in the building industry.

But they've bought and sold houses.

He's like, so just list it, what it's worth.

What are you talking about?

I'm like, it's just not that easy.

You can list it, but why sit there and have that thing on the market for six months or six years?

My house, I got an offer in on it within two weeks of selling, and I was pushing the upper limit.

So that's one of those things.

How fast do you want to sell it?

What's it mean to you?

And if it's sitting on the market, you're going to have to drop prices to me.

If it's been sitting.

Sitting on the market for a few weeks and you don't have enough movement, drop the price.

Drop the price.

Yeah.

You're trying to move it.

The longer it sits, the harder it is to sell.

Because people look at and go, what's wrong with that house?

It's been on the market for 60 days.

Yep, that's always the first thought.

It's been on the market for 90 day.

I don't know, something's wrong with it.

I tell you what, it's one of those things, too.

I was, we should do a show sometime.

It's maybe just podcast only, where I pull up real estate listings and we look at the quality of craftsmanship because we could have some fun stuff.

Some of this stuff I've seen out there, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm not the best craftsperson out there, but some of this stuff looks like 8 year olds were building stuff in second grade.

So it's tough.

It's tough indeed.

All right, well guys, that wraps up our discussion here about the 2025 Cost vs. Value report.

You can find out more about that.

Just jump on and search it.

I'll put a link on the podcast if you're listening there.

Just.

It's Zonda Z o N D A Cost versus Value.

I'm not going to give you their long website for it, but you can find it.

Right.

And then you could put in to find out what's good in your area.

And thanks, Zonda, for the, for creating this every single year so we can get a taste of what things cost out there so we can talk about it here and get you more informed.

That cost versus Value, I think is an important tool for people to understand nationally where costs are so you don't have to go through the whole process.

Right.

How many times did you as a contractor, Johnny, go through the process of getting a quote and people are like, holy smokes, I'm 100 grand over budget and I'm not getting what I want.

Yeah.

Yep.

It just adds up quickly.

It adds up quickly.

You know, Johnny, I'm super excited that we got the Pro Insider back up and running.

We took a two year break.

I had a lot going on with the TV show, but man, I'm so excited to be helping contractors, designers, inventors, business owners out there and really help them give our 70 plus years of knowledge and get them headed the right direction.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I think, yeah.

A lot of valuable information will be dropping in there as we further this out.

Keep building it out, keep providing good tips and good ideas, all the new.

Stuff, all the fun parts, man.

Because here's the thing, I mean, and you know this and I know this, we've all been working together trying to build our own businesses, our own contracting companies, my design firms.

And there's so many things you and I both learned the freaking hard way.

And for all you pros out there, we can save you some pain and probably make you a lot more money at the same time.

Yeah.

When you realize you've been doing it this way for two years, suffering and somebody turns you on to, oh, we got one of these.

It does it in.

You're like, no, no, two minutes.

Don't do it, don't do it.

So check out on the podcast or just head over to aroundthehouse online.com, because we do have our own page up on the website there that you can go over for the Pro Insider and just check it out there.

Well, Johnny, it's time to step out.

It's the end of our number one man, so we better get to it.

Get ready for hour number two.

Here we go.

All right, I'm Eric G. And you've been listening to around the House.

We'll see you soon.