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Hi it's Rob and Kennedy. Hello. Today on the Email Marketing Show, we're talking to the Melissa Litchfield about email metrics for your product launch, what to look for, what not to look for, and what the fuck it all means. Now before we dive into this amazing conversation, we've got something we would love to give you completely for free. One of the things we love to talk about is increasing the click through rate getting more people to hey, it's Rob and Kennedy.

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Hello, today on the Email Marketing Show, we're talking to the Melissa Litchfield about email metrics for your product launch, what to look for, what not to look for,

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and what the fuck it all means. Now, before we dive into this amazing conversation, we've got something we would love to give you completely for free. One of the things we'd love to talk about is increasing the click through rate getting more people to click to more of your office so that more people can buy more frequently. So we put together a really cool free resource called click tracks. It's one of 12 super creative ways that you can get more clicks from every single email that you send. In fact, from the very next email that you send, you can get it completely for free. All you have to do is head over to email marketing heroes.com forward slash tricks you can get started today. He wants to learn to dance but he's got no rhythm and crippling insecurities about it. It's comedy hypnotist Robert sample and there's a photo of him in a shirt and jeans and surprises on a three piece suit on the beach in Phuket Thailand, it's psychological Margarita Kennedy.

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I remember years ago doing a gig in addition Palomar and after the

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demo was dancing. Also passionate. I'm loving it. It's amazing. Phenomenal ballroom dancing

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around the dance floor Yeah, that's for sure. Yep, yep, yep, yep. Yeah, I there is a photo of me since you asked.

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I can't hear the thing.

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So yeah, I basically I was working on a cruise ship years ago now and yeah, I was like, ah, because I was like darting around one minute. I'd be in Antarctica that I'll be in Iceland and Greenland. And then if I was like, now you go to Thailand, it was like I have a bachelor's. So I'm there was my first visit to Phuket. And I'm like, All right, everybody's like yeah, let's go Kennedy. Let's go for like drinks on the beach. And I'm like, I'll meet you there. And then I show up a long sleeve shirt, button. You know, the whole thing jeans, a pair of dress shoes, and they're all like the bikinis are like dancers that are like beautiful and I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, there's a photo of me in a fool. Or get up. Clueless mate clueless completely unprepared. I should just say hello. Every week on this show. We show you how to make more sales and earn more money easy for me to say with your email subscribers. We talk about email marketing strategies, psychology tactics, and share what's working right now to make more sales online making you the email marketing hero of your business, the brand new episode every Monday and Wednesday. Make sure to subscribe button on your podcast player. And also snap a screenshot of this episode. Share it on Instagram tag us at Rob and Kennedy. We'd love to know what episodes are floating your boat and what you are listening to awesomesauce Rob, we've got our friend Melissa Litchfield. In the wings. I've put up a table of romances. You can't speak for a bit but we'll get it we'll take off in a second and one of these three things is true about our mate Melissa Are you ready? I'm gonna look away so I can't get there just to get a full disclosure because that's kind of silly to have these things are bullshit and not true but that well it's I don't think I mean, I'm waiting for the day we do this in the light shed on all right, straight faces. Here we go. Melissa, perform an operation on a crocodile which ended in losing two teeth. Her or the crocodile? I don't have any information. I want people to forgive me. Okay.

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You sound like an examiner.

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Okay, second one. Did she cry for one hour when one of her favourite Nemo slippers got covered in vomit? Or did she sneak off for a pee in a bush and came back covered in scratches from the thorns and got busted.

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I'm going to just go for it helpful either. I think it was the

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NEMO slippers. Melissa, which one of those three things is true?

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The third one the restroom really bad and came out with bloody legs from the corner running through.

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She was next to like a lake or some water so she was like

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damn it. Yeah. There was nowhere to go but in the bushes and lo and behold they were covered in thorns. So therefore I was as well

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scraped scars both emotionally and physically.

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I husband I'll never let that down.

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Neither will I know the law podcast listeners. They're going to remember that time now.

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I'm just gonna be honest. For you, Melissa from now on.

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Anyway, Instagram knows that so I got a special

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episode. Let's get into this because you help a lot of people with launches and stuff out through your work and for your agency and stuff like this up. When people are sort of do it looking at their Lord who've done a launch there's all the hard work and now they're in the sort of autopsy phase of of their of their launch, sort of dissecting it. What happened, what worked well. What do you find that people are mostly sort of looking at in this sort of post launch phase to see whether it was successful or not? What are people looking at?

Unknown 5:45

Yeah, so we're more often than not most people come to me saying that I had a failed launch. I only mail right like I've only made this amount of sales. So they're looking at the end result, right the revenue, how much revenue they brought in or how many sales or new students they brought into their programme or their digital programme, or maybe they weren't doing like a digital product launch. But I tend to ask a lot of questions after that because we need more information, obviously, right. So let's take it a step backwards. You know, how many people showed up to your webinar? How many people showed up live where they're, you know, good. 50% of the leads dropped off within the first five minutes. If that's a yes, it's usually like a hook issue. Right? And then I usually ask like, Okay, well, how many people stayed until the pitch and did you actually sell any any of your programmes or courts spots live? Because that will really show how not persuasive but like were you actually hitting on the pain points and agitating a problem and showing that you had the perfect solution for them at that very moment in time? If not, you may have to rework your pitch, right? So I tend to take them like a step backwards step, you know, keep going backwards, keep going backwards. If if for whatever reason the webinar was perfect, right, then I'm like, Okay, well, what were the email open rates, so that's where we really dial in and dive into the email metrics. So I asked about email open rates, click through rates, where there are enough people even opening the emails, and if so, did at least 2% of those people that open the emails even click through to your offer page? So we can diagnose several steps within the funnel and even in the email sequences to really nail down okay, what was the actual thing that needs to be fixed or tweaked? And then sometimes, I mean, more often than not, I feel like it's even a step back further than that, right? So how many people were on the actual webinar? Or how many people actually registered? Right? If that number is less than 100 people, you probably just have a traffic issue issue, right? So you just need a bigger pool. of people signing up for the free event or whatever hype event that you're hosting. So I want to just like nail it home for your audience and listeners right now is that more often than not it's like multiple things happening within the funnel. It's not just the ultimate end result, right? How much revenue or money was generated? And I know that most people's probably spend a tonne of time, right, lots of effort and time just prepping everything in you know, basically in preparation for this launch. But it's not not to say that like you're you had to feel born right or that your efforts didn't mean anything most of the time. If your email open rates are great and your webinar metrics are great, and you had enough people do to your sales page. It can be one of two things. Usually it's a traffic issue, or it's a messaging issue on a sales page. So like if you're getting enough people clicking through to your emails, which Robin Kennedy have an awesome resource that they mentioned earlier on his podcast, I kind of want to download that how to how to get more clicks to your sales page. So more often than not, I feel like it could either be a traffic issue or a sales page offer messaging issue if all of those other metrics

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sound perfect. So let's let's really zoom in on this because that's a really nice overview. I'm getting sort of gain and get into the weeds a little bit more on getting the details. So I think you're right, I think it's easy for any of us who doesn't want to go cool. Like I've heard people do a launch and they make you know, I saw that person they did a million dollars and I think it'd be good a million dollars in a day from a webinar. Brilliant. I mean, who doesn't want that? Of course, that's not the reality of the situation. Nobody did the million dollars in a day. That didn't happen, right? Ever. The million dollars in the day that what maybe that's how much got banked.

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is if your sales page is converting at 5%, you might go, that's good. You might go, that's bad. I don't care,

right? If you have a small amount of people

looking at, exactly, if you've got 100 million people looking at it, and you've got a 5% conversion rate, you're gonna have a lovely time if your economics are good, if you're, if your price point means that you can make a lot of money back, so yeah, okay, so, client comes to you. They say, ah, Melissa, Help, please. We only made insert number. Let's just call it 100,000. Just to make it an easy number to talk about, right? I only made amazingly terrible I would have a bed for 100 grand right I only made 100 Grand i was expecting insert bigger number. What is the first thing you're going to look at your first question, what's the first diagnostic?

You're going to take a look at? Yeah, I usually ask well, how many people were registered for your your hype? event or your free challenge? masterclass. Usually, yeah, that's usually like my first question. And then I'm like, Okay, now let's dive into the actual metrics of that live or hype event, right? Like, what was the engagement rate like or if you were hosting a webinar, how many people actually showed up? Right? There's a lot of webinar metrics, just tied to the actual webinar itself. So

you've got your protocol, you've got all those sort of things if it is a webinar, but I think what's a really nice metric to look at here is okay, we had, let's say the outcome was weighed 100,000. And you say, how many people do we have register for the event itself? And if that's 100,000 as well, you divide one number by the other then you go well for every person who registered, you made $1. That's not like your earnings. Exactly, exactly. So what we want to really be doing is called cool well is our earning per registrant good enough? Is there a huge gap there, I

guess is what you're saying. Yeah, yeah. And I feel like most of most of times, like a really big indicator. It's like the drop off right? Well, like how many people are dropping off within the first five minutes of your webinar? And you might have heard this in the industry, but I feel like most time when people like go everything, right, it's like they had like a few couple great live launches and when they turn everything to like an automated sales system and they go evergreen, they don't do anything to the recording itself. And then people are hanging out for like, 510 minutes waiting, just waiting for more people to hop on, you know, and it's like, there there sometimes is a gap there a disconnect from going from live launching to going evergreen, and I feel like that's usually like one of the biggest indicators that I've seen just from my clients. When trying to diagnose you know, their newly turned evergreen webinar funnel. It's like the recording they kind of just they took like the lazy way out and they're like, we're just going to pop it but I can do anything recording we're just gonna run traffic to it

so so yeah, I'm interested in your experience. Do you find that people have higher expectations of so for example, we've seen in the past people have said, Oh, my click through rates really low. We say, what is it like, like, 12%? And we're like, no, no, I realised, you know, because it's way off a 101st child, if I got 12% Do you find that all have unnecessarily high expectations as to what a metric should be? Because, you know, two or 3% Sounds like a low number, because in most of us, you know, if you went to if you went to a doctor and said, Hey, listen how healthy am I as a percentage and when I like to present you know, you would you would panic. So I think, in most parts of life, right, but where does that sit in terms of this industry?

Yeah, I mean, you kind of have to think about okay, what sort of call to action are you requesting from you know, each person that's opening the email? Are you giving them something for free? To download? Obviously, your click through rate should be a lot higher than 2%. Right? But in terms of like sales emails, I find that it's normally in between like two to six for like live launches for evergreen it's typically a little bit lower. Because you know, you have like more excitement, more engagement when you are live launching and there's, there's like an active you know, like, set time and date period that the cart is closing. But if you have super engaging like storytelling type emails, where you're literally like, you're speaking to them, you know, and they're like, Oh, my God, this is exactly where I am right now. Rob has this product that can get me to this point where I'm looking to be and he has all this proof in his email showing me that Hey, he is the expert. He is the thought leader in this space. He has helped other people in my same situation, achieve the, you know, the one desire that I have, whatever that may be, but yeah, so I really I really think it comes down to the messaging and the emails and you know, how engaging they are obviously, like the click through rate to I think also indicates how strong of an

offer you have as well. That's interesting. I think another thing to bear in mind as well with that is dates going to your click through rates gonna depend on how blind or open the result of the clickers so for example, if they don't know whether it's free or a paid offer, because you're saying hey, I just made this really cool new thing Click here to find out the information which is what we often start what we call a seed email with then you might get a higher click through rate or something more blind, but there is little there is lower that at the cost of buyer intent, what is the intent on the get to the page you're gonna get a lot more abandonment you're gonna get a lot more of these to call bounce rate back in the I think SEO people are probably still use that word, I guess, but I don't know. Well, but yeah, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So.

Okay. Okay. I like that. So, one of the things you mentioned is what is webinars? You mentioned challenges to both of those in both of those instances, they have like multiple steps to this process that you got to push people through, which is both a challenge because with every step, there's a drop off, but it's also an opportunity because every step, there's something to optimise. If it's just send an email to a sales page, and then people do or don't buy. It's quite woolly as to like figure out where to figure out what to optimise. Whereas, for example, we did a five day challenge a couple years ago, and we tried something we tried to be clever, so we'd put an extra step in between the whole challenge was hosted in a Facebook group. So we put an extra step in between somebody registering and getting into the Facebook group. I remember it was no big deal, opt into a bot or something like that. And what we found is it just crippled the number of people who went from registering to actually getting into the Facebook group. And now we had our emails had to do a lot of hard work after the fact they'd be like, Oh, by the way, don't forget to come and join the Facebook group. So again, every step that you put in place is is a is a threat, but it's also a big opportunity. For like optimization, I guess where in that process. You mentioned a webinar and a challenge. Were in that process. Do you kind of start

with Oh, yeah, and that was a good point to mention about challenges is that it is a huge barrier to get someone from registering Right Prime just like a simple opt in page to actually physically pull a cake to join a facebook group. So it's interesting that you mentioned the survey because I knew you kind of said that it was a huge barrier right to getting people actually to convert from registering to challenge participant. So in terms of that, I mean, you can also you can look at the number of registrants versus the amount of people in the challenge or in the Facebook group. This has happened to multiple my clients so like you're not you're not the only one that struggles with this. So what we try to do is make it super simple or easy. Like a one click registration, especially if you're driving, you know people existing to your email left to a new challenge or a new webinar. So I feel like making it super simple for existing email subscribers and for new email subscribers, potentially having some sort of video on a thank you page with like the button right there below to click and also a series of emails like driving them to join the Facebook group, like letting them know that it's very clear that like, hey, the actual content that you're looking for, is going to be hosted in this separate group. All they have to do is click here to join. So one particular software that my clients have used is URL genius. I believe that's what it's called. So instead of opening up like a browser, sort of URL from the email, which then would force them to log into like their, their Facebook account, which is a huge barrier, right? You can either Then mobile link for like the actual group, which is what I do, it's free. Or you can use a software like URL genius where it would just automatically like open the app for them. So there's a couple of techniques that you could particularly do, you know, lessen the barrier to make it as easy as possible

for that person to go from registrant to challenger. I think this is a really interesting thing when looking at your results to go okay, let's look at the barriers we've accidentally created just by trying to do lots of things because there's so many things we'd love every new subscriber to do isn't over, they come in, we want them to join our Facebook group, and at the same time, take the survey and at the same time whitelist our emails at the same time open to reply to the email at the same time wanting to tell them which segment belongs to and we could go out and we go and look into all those things. So thinking about okay, we needed to get into one thing at a time. And we need to do those things in the order for balancing us getting the result we want. And not pissing them off and not having people feel like they're lost or like this thing, but where the hell is the thing? And I think it's interesting. It's like the number of people and when we've done this, you know, we just actually just about the changes. When we were doing offers on webinars, we would send people from the webinar, here's the URL you need to go to, and there'll be like a summary page of what's in the offer and then on that page to click to go with the cart. And then our coach the other day was like, take me straight to the car, but like, obviously, you know, and we're not we're obviously not doing that. Again, it's just like how many pieces of every time you add on

a thing and you're adding friction between some people are going to stop? Yeah, it's almost like you know, in terms of like the cost per lead versus a cost per registrant like your your ask is, and this is in terms of like advertising, you're asking a lot higher versus like you're giving something for free via a download that they consume at any point in time that's convenient to them, versus them registering for a 60 minute webinar tomorrow at 3pm. You know, so like, you're asking a lot higher and obviously there's an intent to learn and consume the content and eventually buy so that's Yeah, exactly what you're saying. Like there's only so many things that they can process at that time. Do and like yeah, when call to action is, is the goal because

I mean, aren't you most subscribers, they've got so many things going on, right? are asking them to take that call to action. That's the problem. Everybody's doing this email marketing stuff. It's like it's finally caught on. You're doing your job. So you know, and I think the other thing you can do, of course, is to help with this. reducing friction. If you can make it one thing passes on to the other. So let's say for example, you needed somebody to register for a webinar. Okay. Then I guess on the next page, if you needed to have them fill out a survey because of something in your process. Then make sure that your URL of the of the survey that go to is the page what they don't need to go to next. It could be the Facebook group, it could be the whatever so make sure one thing is hanging on to the next. So not there is some kind of sense of look, I really liked this idea of just I took a step back again, just be like okay, we often and we all do it, like sit down and look at our final number of illogical that's socked rather than going it but which bit of it was the bottleneck, which bit was the squeeze that really took the emotion out of it. And you were saying when we were just chatting before we hit record here that you find oftentimes with clients, it's generally there's just not a big enough pool of people. It's just generally there's not enough registrants,

which means it's traffic. Right? Right. It's a traffic problem. It's not necessarily conversion rate problem. But in terms of just as an example, someone came to me and they're DMS. And they were actually from a different programme that I'm a conversion coach. And they're like, Melissa, I just finished my launch like, and she gave me all the launch numbers and the stats. And I was like, Okay, you made three sales. And I was like, wow, how many people did you get to register for the webinar? And she was like, Oh, 67 and I was like, Oh, I was like, that's why I was like you just didn't have enough people was like you had a decent conversion, I think was around 5%. I was like, we just need more traffic, any more page viewers to do that registering page. And then obviously, if it's converting above 30% or higher on the actual landing page, then we can expect to aim for like a higher bigger numbers so that we have a bigger pool of data to look at in terms of okay, what's this actually

successful launch? Or was this just a traffic issue? Right? Yeah, a lot of making sure you've got enough data a lot. People are willing to sell very many and you go how many clicks did you send to the offer and they go 12 And you go, unless you've got like, like 100 clicks to anything 100 Because then you can get at percent unless you've got 100 people there's not a percent on the table. Yeah, you know,

and you just realise like, it has to be 100 It does. Yeah, and honestly, sometimes it really is a numbers game, right? I think it's a numbers game at the top right top of funnel. And then obviously when you get to bottom a funnel, that's where the percentages and the data comes in. But yeah, it's sometimes it's a numbers game. It's not enough. People just viewing that first type of funnel

offer which is usually your pre pre hype events. In case it helps anybody listen, the way that we do this, I'm sure you do the same thing but it's gonna be a different approach. Definitely share it if you have is if we know we need to get 100 people to see the webinar the conversion of the VSL but whatever it is, right. Okay, we need 100 people to see that to see if it's gonna convert, which means we need to get if we're gonna get to 10% of the people who opt in to actually watch the VSL we need 1000 people to register. We need to make sure that the thing we're trying to ultimately measure gets 100 impressions. That might mean you might need 10,000 people seeing your ad to even get 100 People 80% of those Exactly. So you gotta reverse engineer those percent just to make sure you end up with that magic 100%. Like I said, this 100 is really important,

just because otherwise you don't even have a percentage to play with. Yes, honestly. And this ties back into like, email list growth, right? Sometimes I'm like, Okay, well, did you grow your audience in between each launch by at least like 30% and I like, ya know, that my list has stayed the same. Okay, there's opportunity there, right? Yeah. Yeah, sometimes it's really just and that kind of ties into like, okay, it's not just sometimes just traffic but are you also growing your email list? You know, consistently throughout that nurture period of time before you even launch but that also helps with you know, people viewing your webinar registration

page, you know, see more email subscribers, that's all I love it. This is such an awesome discussion, a way of thinking about this stuff and and really dissecting what it is that we've been working on. Thanks so much this chat is so this has been really good fun to throw this idea around. I've really enjoyed this chat. If you want to find out more

about you what you're doing and how they can get in touch. Where should they go? Yeah, let's go media.org or on Instagram, also tick tock as well, which really gives my handle I am really quickly a digital advertising agency. So I'm the CEO of electro media and we specialise in helping course creators launch and skyrocket their

course revenue with paid traffic and sales funnels. Yeah. So to find out about all the ways I'm looking to help you do that, definitely go and check out litical media.org or social media on the Instagram and you also get some great content and great tips and stuff along the way as well. Now it's time for this week's subject line of the week subject line of the week. Melissa, you send a whole bunch of emails from people with their launches how people write emails, or launch code and other people's programmes and stuff. Give it share with us all a subject line that you just really like that has worked

well for you why you find interesting. Yeah, so we were talking about this before we hit record, but it feels like people love the tea. So if you have some sort of like gossip or Intel, I mean, obviously don't get gossip in the actual email. But one recent subject headwind that I signed was why I'm not joining another mastermind this year. And if people are like, well, I want to know why, like, Why Why should I be joining a mastermind, right, so I did get some

email responses from that email that people wanted to tell me they wanted to know, like, joining another, and then something that everybody else seems to be doing sounds controversial, which most of mine pista Ross, I'm

not gonna get the I'm gonna get the lowdown on this. I love that. I love a negative connotation, but

like I put a positive spin on it, obviously. The inside Yeah, I think it's great. That's this week's subject line of the week subject line of the week. Awesome sauce. Well, Melissa litical, thank you so much for joining us on the Email Marketing Show, folks. If you haven't already, go check out Melissa's content. And if you haven't already, also hit Subscribe on your podcast player. We're back next week for another email marketing Wednesday on the Email Marketing Show. We'll see you there.