Hello everyone.
Welcome to this week's edition of
Scaling Expertise, where we talk
to experts who have scaled their
expertise and also can give you
tips about how you can scale yours.
So this week I'm very excited
for my guest, Jason Van Orden.
Welcome Jason.
Hi, you're in.
So good to be here.
Thank you.
Yeah, I mean, we talk about
a lot of the same things.
We want to help experts, maximize
the volume of their expertise.
I think this gonna be
a great conversation.
Lots of good nuggets for
everyone, and frankly, since
I'm, I. Always in the, process of
trying to maximize my expertise.
You're the perfect person
for me to talk to as well.
Wonderful.
So I'll, I'll be, trying to get
some free advice at the same time
that we have this conversation.
Perfect.
Let's do it.
know, one of the things I
noticed about you is that you
launched a podcast in 2005.
Is this a true.
Is this?
Yeah.
Yeah, it was.
I launched a couple of podcasts.
In fact, I launched three podcasts in 2005
because I was so curious and fascinated.
Now, the short of the story is that one
of them, took off unexpectedly and became
a top 10 business show within a couple
of years, and, became my primary business
when that was not at all what I expected.
It was just a friend and I.
Getting on and talking about our internet
businesses and how we were trying to carve
our own path as entrepreneurs, former
employees, and I guess it resonated.
that was a huge turning point
in my entrepreneurial journey
was, gaining that audience.
Mm-hmm.
And so, yeah, I'm a big fan of podcasts
as a way to get the word out and grow
an audience and connect with people.
And, don't have an active
podcast right now, but I Sure.
Like going on other people's podcasts.
Yeah.
That's great.
And when I think about 2005, I'm like, did
I even know there were podcasts in 2005?
Right.
I
don't think I did.
Well, the joke that I say is that
sometimes when I first found out
about podcasting at the beginning
of 2005, I searched for it and
Google, I'm like, what is this word?
And Google tried to correct me
because it was like, do you mean fly?
You know, Google used to say, do you mean
like, you mean fly casting or, because
it didn't know what podcasting was yet.
Um, oh, that's crazy.
Very different world now though.
A hundred percent.
I mean, you know, there's so many things.
Frankly, as a, I call myself kind of
a Luddite regarding using technology.
I'm a big fan, just
figuring out how to use it.
for something like, podcasting in
the early days, like I. Right now,
frankly, I have a plug and play kind
of podcast process where all I do
is show up here and talk to the nice
people, and then somebody else takes
it from there and, figure that out.
That's perfect.
We've got all the props.
Me.
All right.
So Introduce yourself
to the people, please.
Oh, yeah, sure.
So, I'm Jason Van Orden.
I'm a business growth strategist.
I work with consultants and coaches
and other kinds of experts like that.
mission simply put is to help.
Smart people with really important,
impactful ideas to reach more of
the people that they are uniquely
positioned to serve in the world.
And speaking of podcasting, all the
wonderful channels we have, like there's
such a huge opportunity these days for.
Experts, people with a message
to reach their audience.
And so, know, more specifically, I'm
that strategist that helps them when
they have reached a point where, like,
what got me here is it is not what's
gonna get me there, I don't think.
Mm-hmm.
And so I don't know what to shift.
And so they need that second person, that
outside perspective and experience to help
them look at it and go, here's where you
should focus to get where you want to go.
But brass tacks, when it comes down to it,
we're often looking at their messaging.
Making their offers more scalable, which
I'm sure as some will talk about mm-hmm.
You know, designing their signature
method and things like that.
what do they need to do to reach
that bigger audience and deliver
value at scale without burning out
and without losing their unique edge
and their, you know, unique voice.
That is fantastic.
just on one more on the podcast,
like how did you monetize that back?
Like, were there ads or what was
Yeah.
Okay.
it's so funny, like I was on a panel
once at a conference in like 2008.
By that time I was monetizing my
podcast and I remember, you know,
it was like five of us and they were
going one by one through the panel.
Like, how do you monetize a podcast?
'cause that's what
everyone wanted to know.
And all of 'em were like, advertising,
advertising, sponsors, advertising.
And most of them had like
ad networks and things.
then it got to me I'm like, well.
Actually, we monetize it indirectly
through courses and coaching and mm-hmm.
our products that we've packaged,
our knowledge that we've
packaged up in ways for people.
And so the podcast of what brought
people in and earned their trust and
eventually they'd end up like on an
email list or somewhere where we could.
deliver value, but also
promote our programs.
Mm-hmm.
And so we had a membership program and
courses that we sold over those years.
and I remember everybody looked
at me funny on that panel, but I
think it's one of the best ways
to like monetize your podcast is
it's kind of that indirect method.
I mean, there's wonderful
way, lots of wonderful ways,
but that's how I did mm-hmm.
Was, you know, it was an indirect
way of bringing awareness
to my, Coaching and courses.
Yeah, I mean, it reminds me of where
people talk about, you know, write a book.
you are not gonna make any money.
And we might, you know, but more
about how it gets you out there
as a marketing tool, as a lead
generator, even as a closer sometimes
depending on, if it's good enough.
and that brings us to the
topic of intellectual property.
I'm going a little bit outta order
here because you started talking
about this, but, I'm always afraid to
use the term intellectual property.
Because sometimes that shuts
people down, but how do you think
about like, creating that asset
that people can help use to scale?
Do you think about it in terms like
directly as intellectual property,
or do you just think about it as.
A tool how do you look
at it and talk about it?
Yeah, I mean this is, it's a really
good question because something we
always have to think about is, are
we using the right words to resonate
with the people that we want to reach?
Right?
Yeah.
And intellectual property
obviously is gonna bring certain
connotations and things, and I
do use that phrase, sometimes
your IP or intellectual property.
Right.
sometimes I'll refer to
it often as body of work.
Mm-hmm.
is another thing that I'll use.
And then more generally,
sometimes I'm just like, you
know, Hey, I'm here to help you.
Package and communicate and deliver
your unique knowledge in a way
that's, you know, and so it's
a little bit more like mm-hmm.
Right.
speaking to exactly what they want to do.
a phrase that I use a lot, that's
not necessarily something that people
right off the top of their heads are
thinking about, but as soon as I bring
it up seems to resonate, at least with
the people that I am trying to speak
with, is, you know, your signature
method or your signature process, like
your unique approach to guiding your
ideal client from, know, where they're.
At when they sign up to work with
you through the challenges and
milestones to get them to those
outcomes that they want the most.
And you know, we all have
that unique approach.
I mean, certainly we might borrow
some of the same principles and best
practices that other experts do.
Mm-hmm.
But in the end, we do have a unique
approach with our perspective and
our values and our vision and how we.
synthesize and present things.
So I don't know.
Those are some of the different
ways I think about and refer to.
Yeah.
This idea of knowledge that
can be turned into, an asset.
But one of the fundamental building blocks
is that idea of a signature process.
Mm-hmm.
Or signature method.
Yeah.
I think that's so
important because so many.
Experts, consultants, know, they
know how to sell their time.
And they're thinking about this process to
build a scalable business, and they really
don't think that they have any assets.
Only as that is their time and
they're kind of starting from scratch.
Like, what do I. Do, like, how do I even,
you know, I was, talking to a group of
people and it was a pretty generic group.
Like it wasn't just experts.
It and the question was like,
how do I know I have expertise
or what is a niche and, not.
Questions for a lawyer, but
you know, I I do my best.
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
But it was definitely about, who
are you talking to all the time?
what are their common problems?
What are the common solutions?
Mm-hmm.
How do you steer people from getting
out of the, okay, I just do what
people need me to do to being
proactive about, okay, this is what
I do and this is how I make the.
Impact.
Right?
Yeah, and it's, I mean, one of the common
frustrations that I'm trying to speak
to, and I'm sure you are as well, is that
People know that it's like, you
know, there's so much more I
could be doing with my ideas.
Mm-hmm.
Or they just wanna grow their income and
help more people, but they're like, yeah,
they've run into that ceiling and mm-hmm.
They're maybe feeling stretched thin,
burned out, and they're like, okay, this
isn't sustainable the way I'm doing it.
and so that's the moment where I come
in and, one of the first principles
to realize is something that I think
you kind of touched on there, and
it's like you need to detach the value
from your time or even your presence.
Hm, to your knowledge.
Yeah.
The intellectual property, whatever
you want to call it, right?
Mm-hmm.
So that, that's like principle number one.
Principle number two, which often people
don't think about, is that you need to
organize it in a way that it can be, need
to be able to deliver it more efficiently,
or, if you're customizing every single
solution that you provide, you're
gonna be spreading yourself too thin.
So that's where it's like.
Actually, maybe principle too is like
being very clear about here's the best
people that I can help the most and here's
that, signature way that I help them.
Mm-hmm.
And
once you've, because some people are
like, oh, I serve all these different
audiences and all these different ways.
And that can be very fulfilling,
but it's also, you just have
to accept the fact that.
You also are spreading yourself very thin.
So then if you're like,
okay, I need to organize it.
And the analogy I use is, you
know, so often we might realize as
entrepreneurs at some point we come
to the, where it's like, okay, I
can't wear all the hats anymore.
I need to maybe hire assistance
and I need to create systems and
standard operating procedures or
whatever lingo you want to use.
and so we think about that in terms of
the admin of our business, but then we
don't apply that same principle to the.
Knowledge or the product
of our, of our business.
So true as well.
So that's like the third principle
is like, it's absolutely important
to have that systemization.
And then the last principle I'd
put in there is that, there's this.
Very basic image I'll put up sometimes
that, makes it click for people.
And that is like, I'll show them no, I'll,
I'll show their client on one side, know,
as like a circle or square, whatever.
And the outcome the client wants to get
to on the other side of the diagram.
then I put them the expert there in
the middle and then said, most of
you're selling yourselves this way.
And so they sign up and they are
expecting you to be on the phone.
They are buying into you because
you've sold as you, your time,
your presence is what you've sold.
Mm-hmm.
Now.
Then I say, okay, I show a second diagram
where they slide out of the way and their
signature method shows up in the middle.
And it's like when that's the thing
that you've branded and put forward,
that's what they are buying into.
And therefore, yes, you might still
be involved and they know that it
came outta your mind and that they can
trust it, but you've branded it as.
That is the thing.
That is gonna get you
to where you want to go.
Mm-hmm.
And so over time, if there are team
members who come in and facilitate part
of the process, or eventually you're
certifying people in your process or
whatever model you wanna go with mm-hmm.
You're
able to, like, that's what people are
okay with and expecting when they come in.
Right.
And so all of those principles add
up to like, hey, those are some
of the key mindset and operational
shifts that you need to make to
have that business that has more.
Capacity, more capacity to
serve, more capacity to make
money, whatever the case, may be.
that's how think of it, making that
shift, to a more scalable, knowledge
based, expert based business.
I.
Yeah.
You are literally just
described my business, so Yeah,
yeah.
Right.
Like serve, and I learned that,
I mean, the before differently.
I mean before, not the after,
just, yeah.
But yeah, so about me,
I mean, it is tough.
I mean lawyers have a tough time.
not selling themselves, this is what,
these are my old clients and as opposed
to selling transformations, and for
me it's been a real challenge to.
Break away from the temptation,
especially, you know, you get
referrals that are anywhere.
like, oh, she's an IP lawyer.
Referrals are all over the place, right?
Mm. I don't do it all, so those are easy.
Some I can do, but should I do it?
Mm-hmm.
Uh, well, that person sent them, so, know,
I wanna honor the referral, so I'll do it.
And boy do I get all over the place.
these are one-offs.
There's no system, and
that is a real frustration.
And that's kind of where I am trying
to, stick to what I want to, help people
with, yeah, be able to say no to the
things that I can do but shouldn't do.
and have that kind of.
Branded transformation as opposed to.
Services for hire,
And part of that is narrowing the scope
of who you think of as your ideal clients.
Mm-hmm.
And which problems you think of
yourself as being best to solve.
And I mm-hmm.
I get it.
That it's, it's really hard.
For us sometimes to make that transition
from, well, I don't wanna exclude
anyone, I don't wanna leave anyone out.
I don't wanna leave money on the table.
I can totally do this.
I could create value and when I help
clients create a signature method,
one of the surprising there's a whole
stack of benefits that come out of
it, and scalability is just one.
But a mutual friend of ours,
Erica Holt Hausen, I think that's
actually how we met, and Yes.
Mm-hmm.
I helped her with her signature
method and one of the.
When I was talking to her, she
said, you know, one of the things
that I didn't expect is that it has
become a strategic filter for me.
Mm-hmm.
Meaning that now that clarified so
well, like who I serve and how I
do it, and what outcomes I deliver.
That when opportunities come up,
when ideas come up, when referrals
come my way or whatever, I run it
through like, does it fit this model?
Right.
And if not, then.
I'm ready to send them elsewhere
or give them an idea to run with
or point them to whatever I can.
but I get it, like that transition
is hard to make and it's completely
natural earlier on in our business
as experts, whatever our model is
to want to try d serving lots of,
we shouldn't, we should like, Hey,
where do I create the greatest value?
Who do I enjoy working with most?
Who do I have the best access to?
Right.
And then at some point, I think
it is important to, yeah, start.
Shoring that in and narrowing that scope.
and then it can really help with that.
And it feels like a
leap of faith sometimes.
'cause you're like, okay, now I gotta
go all in on that and hope it brings in
enough leads and high enough, command
high enough prices to make what I need.
All all the things that
we worry about, right?
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
But, um, so I get it.
But that is a, critical shift to make.
Yeah.
I feel like I'm on the precipice of
something, but I can't quite, yeah.
Like,
do But, I'm getting there, you know, every
time something comes in that's not the
right fit and you're like, I will never
do that again, so I might just be right.
A process of elimination,
right?
I'm like, okay, I'm not doing that again.
Yeah,
and that is some of it like
process of elimination and
like, oh, that wasn't good.
So what are the filter criteria I can
use in the future to get myself to say
no or recognize it when it, it comes up?
but I'll say, you know, from the
outside, you've figured out how to
deliver interesting and valuable ideas.
I tune into your email newsletter
in your live streams and stuff,
so you've got that dialed in.
But Yeah.
Isn't it funny that then sometimes on
the inside there's just still like,
oh, I'm trying to, like, I'm so close.
But what is that?
Thing.
I have no doubt that you'll figure it out.
Very good.
So, let's talk about your business.
So we know you started back 2005
with your podcast, but you've
evolved to where you are today.
Tell us about that evolution
and how you have developed.
Your signature method
helping other people.
Yeah.
Like their signature method.
Yeah, sure.
I mean, speaking of trying a lot of
things out, I mean, there've been so
many breadcrumbs over my, like two
decades of being an entrepreneur.
We talked about how I got my start
in podcasting, you know, that was a
good fit for, had technical skills as
a former programmer, and I had audio
skills as a former musician, and I.
have teaching skills in my
DNA and background and right.
And so it's like figuring out
like where you create that best
value and it's like mm-hmm.
From podcasting and that
business that took off for 10
years, like that was wonderful.
And I helped a lot of people.
People wanted to get out of a job
and start something meaningful, like
make that shift and really ultimately
figure out what they wanted in life.
Right.
And then at some point, like that
container for my strengths, my strengths
of like, taking ideas and, organizing
them, whether to teach them myself
or help others do that on their own.
I was like, okay, something needs to shift
'cause this isn't doing it for me anymore.
And so about 10 years ago I started
doing a little bit more exploration.
I went back into consulting to see
where I created the best value and
that's where I made a shift eventually
to work with coaches and consultants.
I wanted to apply all my knowledge
and experience to, again, people with
important ideas that needed to get
them out there and move away from
working with your beginners, which
was fun, but I needed the challenge
and I needed to get out of the like.
You can make money online business.
'cause then that's what
it was turning into.
It was so noisy.
I'm like, I'm not gonna
market in that anymore.
I don't want to.
So I guess, know, one of the
points I'm making is like, yeah.
I think we come in and out of
that exploration at times too.
And so, like, I've had a signature
method for launching a business
podcast and that's for a while I was a
consultant that helped people do that.
Mm-hmm.
Oh 5, 0 6, 0 7, know, and then
I've had signature method for.
How to figure out what your
business is when you've never
started a business before, right?
Mm-hmm.
Well, now I have signature methods
for like, how do you organize
your ip, your knowledge and
how do you communicate it best?
but inside of that, like, you know,
the strengths are the through line.
And whether we're like showing up as a
lawyer who's got billable hours or as
somebody with a podcast who I've learned
over time that where I create really
great value is I'm a good systems thinker.
I'm good at helping people zoom in and
zoom out when they need to pick the golden
nuggets out of what they are creating to
realize, no, this is one of the things
you need to double down on and really
bring forward and highlight, one of the
things I'll say is sometimes, like my
clients show up with this beautiful mess
of assets and by that I mean like they
might have written a book, you know, and
they're proud of that book, and then like
they do some speaking over here and their
site has a bunch of content on it and
they've got different opportunities and
all this stuff, all this content, all this
they just haven't figured out how to like
really snap it together into like mm-hmm.
This is the business model and
approach to your career that's
gonna take you where you want to.
Mm-hmm.
Go.
Mm-hmm.
And so I like bringing that, order
and That shine as much as it can.
Mm-hmm.
And so that's what's always
been inside of, my approach.
Whether my signature method is
called this or that, or, is aimed
at this audience or that audience.
hopefully I'm kind of
answering your question.
Yeah.
But that's one important thing, I think.
Mm-hmm.
Just speaking of my journey
and where I've come and mm-hmm.
The, the most recent iteration,
it's funny, it's like every
decade is now with ai.
It's kind of like when I found
podcasting and dove into that.
There's like a unique
convergence right now.
I think of my knowledge, a Venn
diagram of everything I've been doing
with clients for 20 years now, being
able to infuse AI into that, both in
serving my clients, but helping them.
To leverage it responsibly.
Mm-hmm.
Hopefully, ethically, there's
lots for us to figure out, but
also powerfully, again, to package
and communicate and deliver Yeah.
Their ideas at scale.
And so that's where I'm headed next.
And so my signature methods are adapting
a bit now to like, bring in, AI as well.
now we are converging there.
I mean, as a copyright lawyer
'cause I'm not all the other types
of ip, I'm a copyright lawyer and
with the issues involving using
AI being copyright issues mm-hmm.
It kind of pulled me in and it surprised,
you know, again, I'm a proud Luddite,
but I'm like, there's no light.
When I first heard about ai.
and it was in the context of doing
a continuing legal education.
I just needed some hours
this popped up as available.
I'll listen to this CLE about AI
while I'm checking email, and I'm just
listening just three years ago, I guess.
and then they started talking about
chat, GPT, and I can do this and that.
I'm like, what?
and then I dove in and then that was it.
Originally, I'm like, well,
it's changing so fast.
How can I kind of stay ahead of it?
Like I can't stay ahead of
it, but I can stay ahead of.
Everyone else, like, you know?
Right.
You sure?
Right, right.
Like, I'm not in it, but I can be
the interpreter between, using AI and
the legal issues regarding using ai.
Yeah.
yeah, so that's been an
interesting journey as well.
And falling in love with AI, frankly.
awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Exactly.
So you mentioned that, know, you didn't
want to work with kind of the beginners as
much anymore, or you're not working with
them what stage of development are your
clients typically when they come to you?
I mean, I typically don't say like,
oh, they have to have been in business
for X amount of years or whatever.
'cause like everyone's, different and,
I've worked with people who are like
recently outta corporate and going into
consulting and like very quickly are in
a place where I can absolutely help them.
Mm-hmm.
Given what they have to work with.
So what I usually tell people is that
the people that I can help best are.
They already have a pretty good
idea of who they serve best.
I mean, there's always some cleanup.
I mean, even people who have been doing
business a long time, there's always
some cleanup, but let's make sure
we're really clear about who your ideal
client is, what's going on in their
mind and what language they're using.
But you need to like, know how to
deliver value and results to them.
Mm-hmm.
Like we all go through our growth period
of like finding our expertise and figuring
out how we can dependably deliver great
results to the clients that we serve.
But yeah, if you haven't crossed
that bridge yet, then I could still
help, but like, you know, I've chosen
where I focus my efforts on, hey, you
already know you deliver great value.
You just know that, again, like the
model needs to shift or you need
to extract yourself from some parts
and focus yourself more on others.
And you're just not sure how to make that
shift or what systems to put in place or
what bottleneck is, needs to be removed.
You're serving clients consistently,
making some, some money.
Yes.
There's still maybe boom and
bust cycles in your business
like we all have going on.
but you're at that precipice, that
inflection point that, um, Maybe a
transition or you just, you're feeling
that ceiling And now you're like,
okay, I need somebody to help shine
a light on which direction to go now.
And so that's, that's how I describe,
it's a little harder sometimes if you like
said in one sentence, who do you serve?
You know, like experience coaches and
consultants who are delivering great
results to their, their clients, but
want to do it at a bigger scale, I guess
would be the short version of that.
but that's how I think of it.
Yeah.
You know where I find trouble is, and this
is from an IP perspective, is coaches who
have a bunch of certifications and they're
using a bunch of third party materials,
and so they don't actually own anything.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm like, I don't know.
How to help you create a protectable work,
right.
If you don't own anything, you know?
And so how do you, like, do you come
across that and how do you help them
kind of create a signature method out
of, a bunch of assessments that they got
from, you know, the other places and,
yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
This is a really, Good question.
And, a couple of things.
I think there are different types of
coaches and some will be happy to,
go and certify in Donald Miller's
story, brand system and just is gonna
be really good at helping apply that
to all kinds of, clients and they're
happy to have learned that and just.
Be a purveyor of that awesome system.
And then I think there are some who just
feel a little more driven to like, nah, I
wanna like add something to my industry.
I want to leave a legacy, or
I want to, you know, whatever,
you know is, is driving them.
And so I think sort of naturally, I think.
I tend to attract, at least the ones
who approach to work me a little
more the the latter and mm-hmm.
And they are realizing, Hey, I've
been doing this for a while and
yes, I've synthesized and learned
a lot, but I really have something
unique to how I'm doing this now.
Now, of course, I mean there's all
kinds of tools that I'll refer to.
I'll talk about, Dan Sullivan's unique
ability, you know, from Strategic Coach.
And that's an amazing, anyway,
but when I'm suggesting that
clients, I'm very much saying like.
Hey, it's his thing and I recommend
getting this book, or I'm gonna buy it
for you and we're gonna gonna, I'll help
you go through the process know, but a
lot of what I'm helping them do is figure
out what have they managed to synthesize
from just what's best practices and.
Right.
I guess common knowledge
maybe for a lack of better.
and where the trick comes in is that
sometimes people feel, well, there's
nothing special about what I do.
Like I think every expert like me
knows that you need to do AB and
C and avoid de and f or whatever.
Mm-hmm.
that might be true to a
degree, but look like.
you still again, have like a different,
perspective approach, set of values.
Mm-hmm.
there are some people that I'm not the
right fit to help them with marketing.
'cause they just wanna be a lot more like
go, go, go and like, whatever, you know?
And, then there's people I
attract 'cause they're like, ooh.
Chase market's different.
It doesn't feel so pushy.
It it feels more organic.
It feels more, mm-hmm.
You know, and so they like to
come and learn marketing from me
because that's how I want to market.
So that's where like knowing who you serve
and what they're looking for and what they
value, and then packaging and delivering
and communicating in a way that's not
only relevant to what they need, but
resonant in a way where they're like,
you're the person that I want to help me.
I don't want just to.
Have a great, website and messaging.
I want somebody who.
Is like steeped in this
philosophy of mm-hmm.
Of doing those things.
and so that's where I like to
try to help pull out like what
is unique about their voice.
Mm-hmm.
What are they doing that maybe others
aren't doing, or how can we position it
because there's something that they're
saying that's not the common knowledge.
They might not be the only one saying it.
Mm-hmm.
But it's not, you know, it hasn't
become the common knowledge in
their industry and they've got like.
A contrarian view or like, Hey, this
is, we really need to go in this
direction 'cause it's not serving
us anymore the way we used to do it.
And that's exciting to help somebody Yes.
Own that message and push it forward.
that's in there if you are that
type of coach that wants to go that
direction and nothing wrong with
being like, I've got my certifications
and I've got my licenses and mm-hmm.
I mean, I got started doing
that kind of stuff too.
Licensing other people's stuff so.
Yeah.
That's great.
Well, speaking of how you work, tell
me how do you work with your clients?
What is your preferred method
of working with clients?
Yeah, so, in terms of like the container
that it takes, it's either I have,
a group program and that's, Built
to be very like directional towards
getting, scaling and fixing their
business model and optimizing it.
And sometimes people, they'll be in
that program for six months, sometimes
two years, not because, you know, I've
made them dependent on me because we
just keep finding more things mm-hmm.
That we can do, right?
Mm-hmm.
And then I'll do a bit of one-on-one.
Now I limit that because,
I want to scale my impact.
Right.
I do like a limited amount of that.
And you know, the cool thing is
like whether you're in the group
container or in this one-on-one
extended or even a like, Hey, I
just need this one thing done.
Can I work with you for a month, Jason
Container that I'm plucking out the
piece of my model and the bits of
my frameworks that are relevant to
them, and I'm able to very quickly,
cause I've got these modules, snap 'em
together in a way that feels, structured
but still, customized to mm-hmm.
To them.
So they feel like I, you know,
we're hanging on a lattice work.
Their vision, strengths,
goals, and so forth.
Mm-hmm.
and that's how I try to help my clients
to think about their work as well.
Mm-hmm.
so I always say, when you come to work
with me, you're getting an action plan.
I. I'm helping you do that.
Zoom in, zoom out, strategize, okay,
here's the thing we need to focus
on to get you where you want to go.
Then I'm like, here are tools and
templates because I've created
these and refined them over years.
This is my framework that's gonna help
you do that thing we just identified.
I. Whether that's a set of
worksheets or a process, whatever.
Mm-hmm.
And then support, and it's like you're
on the phone with me or in these
group calls or email access to get the
guidance and feedback that you need.
And that support piece varies depending
on like, which container you've signed
up for and how that's, you know, your
budget and what you decided you need.
But it's very easy for me to have
those different containers because
it's still all foundationally.
built around how I have modularized
my intellectual property, my
ip, my expert, my expertise.
That's fantastic.
I love that.
another thing that I'm struggling with,
which is that I've had kind of pieces,
you know, I have kind of a process to go
through to get to the point where you have
all your intellectual property protected.
and licensed but I found
ultimately that I needed to.
Know that they owned and had the rights to
everything that was part of that license.
Right.
And so I'm like, I can't
really do that part.
Like to me, someone could do it.
I can't do that part unless I know
that you own everything and have the
rights to license all this stuff.
Right.
And unless I, and so I'm
like, I can't actually.
Sell them that part without
selling this other part.
And so that's something I'm working on.
There's like a certain
degree of, discovery that
you need to do to know that.
Yeah.
That it's ethically can apply
your signature process to
what they're bringing in.
Yeah.
That, that makes sense.
And so that's where, you know, it's like,
yeah, either you figure out the filters
to filter people in and out, or a lot
of times my clients will have some sort
of assessment or intake or something on
the front end that helps them to then.
Either decide which container's the
best one to put that person into.
Mm-hmm.
Or, know, formulate the path through
their offer and system that is going
to match or to tell 'em, it's like,
Hey, you're not quite ready yet.
Mm-hmm.
Here's what I'm seeing.
Mm-hmm.
So I recommend this and this and
this, and then come back when
you're ready for that next piece.
And so, yeah, having, yeah.
Intake assessment filters on the front
end is an important piece that I'll also
explore a lot with my clients for that.
Very reason and many others as well.
Yeah, not having the right
intake has gotten me in trouble.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
All of us.
Yeah.
I think that's one of those that
bites us and we're like, oh, I
don't want that to happen again.
Yes.
that's where it comes in a lot.
So tell everyone where they can
find you and if there's something
new and exciting, you wanna.
Announce as well.
I'd welcome that, but I'm sure
people wanna follow up with you.
Yeah, sure.
So, you can find me@jasonvanorden.com.
I will admit that right now there's a
bit of cobbler without the shoes where
my site badly needs to be updated with my
latest, like stuff that I'm focused on.
Yes.
the exciting thing is I am full force
ahead with a research project that's
basically asking the question of what do.
Experts, coaches, consultants,
need in order to leverage AI
to deliver impact at scale.
And so like, what are the
things getting in their way?
What are the things they need to know that
they don't know that they need to know?
And then what are the systems I can
create to facilitate all of that?
So I'm very excited about, and, one
of the thing I'll mention if it's
okay, I just have a, a free gift
here that I can point people to.
if you go to jason van
method, all one word, signature method,
what that'll do is it'll take you to.
a paired down, but great to get you
started, version of my Signature
Method framework to at least get you
starting to play around with organizing,
and, giving a taste of that process.
So, you know, you download this,
there's a worksheet, give it about,
30 minutes to an hour Have your
time to really sit with your stuff
it'll get you, to a first draft.
Of course, we we want
to like prove it out.
There's lots of stuff we want to do
to make sure you're really ready to
leverage that, but it's a great place
to start if anyone's thinking like,
oh, maybe I have a signature method.
Mm-hmm.
So, jason van orden.com/.
Signature method, all one word.
I will make sure that that URL
is set up correctly as soon
as we're done, talking here.
Perfect.
And we'll make sure it is in the show
notes that everyone can get access to that
fantastic resource and connect with you.
Thank you so much, Jason.
This has been great conversation.
Thank you for the free advice.
Yeah,
my pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
I really appreciate it.
It.