Beyond the Grades: Finding the Right School Culture for Your Child's Emotional Health with Rachel

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[00:00:21] Welcome back to Kids these Days. Insights for every stage of Child and Family development. I'm Dr. Courtney Lynn, licensed psychologist and owner of Integrated Behavioral Health, and I am your host. Today we are diving in to one of the most stressful parts about parenthood. Navigating the school system. I always feel like with all of the educational jargon and report cards that are numbers or letters or advocating for your child, 5 0 4 plans versus IEPs, there's so much and it's like a totally different language.

[00:00:55] So I am really thrilled to introduce our guest today. Rachel Chop. She is [00:01:00] the founder of Allied Education and an educational consultant. She offers families the unique advantage of having a K through 12 veteran in their corner to serve as an ally while they navigate all things education. With deep experience as a teacher, administrator, and curriculum lead, she specializes in translating complex school data and turning school confusion into clear action.

[00:01:24] As a partner, Rachel works with families across the country so they can cut through the noise and move beyond guessing to becoming their child's most powerful informed advocate. Rachel, I am so excited to have you join us. Our mission here is to help parents move beyond guessing, and I know her expertise is exactly what everyone needs.

[00:01:44] So I'm looking forward to our interview today.

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[00:01:48] Courtney: Hi Rachel. How's it going?

[00:01:51] Rachel: Good. How are you, Courtney?

[00:01:53] Courtney: Doing pretty well. I am so excited for this chat today.

[00:01:58] Rachel: Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

[00:01:59] Courtney: [00:02:00] Oh, of course. I read off your bio before this, and I was saying that. Parents don't get trained for their kids to go to school. Like There's so much jargon and all of these things that happen um, that if you don't know, you can kind of get like washed, washed away in all of the overwhelm,

[00:02:22] Rachel: no, absolutely. I talk to parents a lot about, just hiring a translator because they don't understand all the things that they're hearing from the schools and their teachers and they just need an ally to be with them on the journey.

[00:02:36] Courtney: Yeah, absolutely. I know we do, you know that we do like evaluations for autism, a DH, adhd, all of the things, and we always recommend educational advocates because it's just so hard. You know, Like as a parent you get all of this information and then like you said, you need a translator, like don't know what to do with it.

[00:02:53] Rachel: Absolutely. And for a lot of those families, like having someone in the room with them can be really helpful because [00:03:00] it gets a little overwhelming.

[00:03:01] Courtney: Yeah. Well, I am grateful for everything that you do and being able to support those families. Um, I figured we could start today with one of the most frequent and most confusing questions that I get asked is the difference between a 5 0 4 plan and an IEP. And if your kid has a diagnosis of A DHD or anxiety or a learning disability.

[00:03:28] Courtney: Do you need a 5 0 4 plan? Do you need an IEP? This comes up all of the time, so I would love to hear your explanation of this.

[00:03:36] Rachel: Yeah, so I think the easiest way for families to really think about this is a 5 0 4 is the environment and an IEP is the curriculum or the way they're taught. And I think that's just an easy way to think about it, right? Environmental needs where, when, how, and kind of [00:04:00] IEP is very much specific tailored personalized education supports.

[00:04:05] Rachel: Um, So they are very different. I know you probably see this, especially with students with A DHD, A lot of times they'll get this diagnosis and then schools will immediately push them into a five by four plan because it's the easiest I. Kind of thing for the school to implement.

[00:04:24] Rachel: It doesn't come with a lot of legal requirements that an IEP comes with. So 5 0 4 was, created this rehabilitation act and a 5 0 4 is your whole life. So you will get the kind of benefits of a 5 0 4 plan, not only in your elementary school, middle school, high school, but in college, in your workplace all over the place.

[00:04:46] Rachel: It's just essentially saying that. You should not be, kinda unsuccessful due to your disability, or you should not have your needs met. So that's when we hear a lot of things, like extra time on [00:05:00] tests, preferential seating tech support, if you have a visual impairment or a hearing impairment.

[00:05:06] Rachel: So these are very much like.. Accommodations. so, you know, A 5 0 4 plan doesn't necessarily have to have. Have to have specified meeting times. You're not going to get, really indivi individualized education support because it's not really an education plan. It's a civil rights plan.

[00:05:28] Rachel: It's making sure that you're not , reprimanded because you need help with organization of your items in the classroom or the workplace. IEP is an education plan. It is, you know, an education. Legislation. And it comes with a lot of legally mandated requirements.

[00:05:50] Rachel: So this A DHD child, for example, their grades, their classroom success is struggling due to [00:06:00] their disability. So not just they're unfocused and they can't keep up with their books, but they are not able to access the curriculum. They're not able to kind of read at the level they need to be reading at, do math at the level they need to be doing it at, at grade level.

[00:06:17] Rachel: So we need to change the way we are teaching or give them extra educational supports to allow them to be successful. So that is being pulled out. Having time with a special education teacher having a co-teacher come into class specifically to support this student. And then mandated plans and goals.

[00:06:43] Rachel: This kid will be able to read on grade level with 80% accuracy by. Christmas right by the holiday break. And then we will meet specific times throughout the year with parent, [00:07:00] with gen ed, teacher, with sped teacher, with admin, a whole group of people that can support this student. And another differentiation between an IEP and A 5 0 4 is that an IEP comes with other services offered.

[00:07:16] Rachel: So this child might need. Occupational therapy support, right? They might need help with speech therapy. So speech pathologist would come into the school and support them, and that is written into their goals, written into their plan. And it is a legally binding document that this child will get the supports.

[00:07:37] Rachel: A 5 0 4 sometimes could come with some sort of services, but that is not common and that is not mandated by law. You should think about it as a parent of small environmental changes to support your child. As, As a 5 0 4 large curriculum, individualized education support is an IEP [00:08:00] and. Most of the time a student who qualifies for a 5 0 4 has already been identified. They most of the time have already had evaluation to say that they need support, they're already in the system, and already have the documentation to move them into an IEP if that is something that you would like to happen.

[00:08:20] Rachel: I think sometimes schools lead parents to believe that these are so different that, oh, your kid only needs some , you know. accommodations in the classroom. Not that big a deal. But if you as a parent have your intuition and don't necessarily agree with that, it is very easy to ask for more evaluation or a meeting to discuss, whether or not they would qualify for an IEP.

[00:08:46] Courtney: Okay. You said so many things that were so helpful. I love the overarching like 5 0 4 plan environmental change. Is IEP curriculum changes? As you were saying that, I had a million questions running through my mind of things that I [00:09:00] hear from parents.

[00:09:01] Courtney: One of the misconceptions that you just clarified is you, don't you, it's not like you can only have one of them. If you have a 5 0 4 plan, you can't have an I eep if you have an iep, can't have a 5 0 4 plan. One thing I hear a lot from parents and you know, I have a background in school psych, so I can kind of understand like where schools are coming from to some extent is school saying this disability, A, DH, D, anxiety, autism, whatever it is, is not impacting their learning.

[00:09:32] Courtney: That's kind of part one, and then also something that we see is like. the child, maybe they are, meeting expectations, learning, but their behavior is really getting in the way of them being able to access the material. And so, you know, accommodations that are on a 5 0 4 plan, like preferential seating, like you said, sitting close to the teacher, et cetera, at some point seem like they're not enough because now they're falling behind because they [00:10:00] can't sit during circle time.

[00:10:01] Courtney: So I think those are probably two different. Questions, thoughts, but would love. Yeah. I know you have lots to say.

[00:10:09] Rachel: Yeah, I mean, I think, at the end of the day I start all parent conversations with the premise that. Teachers want what's best for your kids. You want what's best for your kids. Working together and collaborating is the best way to have your child be successful and get what they need, right?

[00:10:27] Rachel: IEPs are a lot of work for everyone inside the school. And there are a lot of work for a reason because students need a lot of extra support. We can talk about funding and all kinds of stuff all day, but at the end of the day, if a student needs that level of support to be academically, socially, emotionally successful, then that's what we need to be doing.

[00:10:57] Rachel: And again, it's a lot of work, right? [00:11:00] Five of fours. It's like, five kids could need preferential treatment, right? Like, That's easy. We'll set kids around, we'll move our, locations of the chit chatty students and you know, we'll solve all the problems. But then we see these high level students who still need more supports.

[00:11:20] Rachel: And if you are seeing that your 5 0 4 is not allowing your student to. Graduate off of some of these behaviors or attention issues, right? They're still not able to keep up with things, still not able to complete work in, you know, a timely manner , . If you're seeing that your student is still struggling even with a 5 0 4 plan and these kind of basic accommodations, then you should be having a conversation with your school around more evaluative tools, more time, more conversations to see if they do need to move into, uh, onto an [00:12:00] IEP.

[00:12:00] Rachel: Because a 5 0 4 is not gonna meet the needs of every student that needs a lot more individualized education support.

[00:12:09] Courtney: Yeah. Yeah. I like how you keep kind of weaving into like. the parents' intuition, like you are the one that is at home doing homework with your kid while they're crying hysterically because they don't understand the math problem or the reading is so hard, right? They might be holding it together in school all day, but I do feel like parents do know a lot, which you know is why what you do is so helpful because it's challenging for a parent to know, like.

[00:12:38] Courtney: Y you know, reading a book with my kid at night when we're supposed to be having this lovely time reading a book together is so painful for everyone involved. And then the school's like, oh, I think that they're fine. Like, It's hard to be able to trust yourself. And so, yeah, I think that, you've kind of alluded to that many times of being able to, just get the [00:13:00] support that kids need.

[00:13:01] Rachel: Yeah. And I think, knowledge breeds confidence,? So the more you know, the more you know how to advocate ? And a lot of parents just don't have the verbiage. You shouldn't have to be an educational attorney. You shouldn't have to be a career educator. You shouldn't have to be a principal.

[00:13:26] Rachel: You shouldn't have to have all of this expertise to be able to advocate for your kiddo. And I think that parents a lot of times just feel ill prepared to have these conversations with the school It's, it's all about how we come to these conversations and bridging these gaps. And, teachers want what's best for your kid.

[00:13:48] Rachel: Admin wants what's best for your kid, let's work together to get there. But a lot of times. Parents have to take the reins. They have to have these tough conversations, and they [00:14:00] have to do it in a way that shows that they have an understanding of what their student actually needs.

[00:14:07] Courtney: Right, which I feel like that part is challenging. I wanna come back to that, of how to bridge that conversation, which I know you are great at. With one last like kinda misconception or that. I hear a lot. Okay. With MTSS and multi-tiered systems of support and response to intervention, all those things, which I think are wonderful and, you know, implemented to varying degrees across school districts one of the things that comes up often, I'm curious, your response to this are schools saying the interventions that they're getting now because they're in this MTSS system.

[00:14:45] Courtney: Response to intervention are what they would be getting if they had an IEP, there would be nothing different between what we're providing them. Now I see you shaking your head For those who can't see or not on video the intervention that they're getting now is what they would be getting [00:15:00] if they had an IEP.

[00:15:02] Rachel: It doesn't matter. It does not matter. Absolutely not. Because guess what? MTSS is not a legally binding document. Okay? We can give interventions to whole groups of students. We can do pullouts and push-ins and we can have co-teachers and we, we can do all sorts of things, right? And this conversation is not necessarily just for like, , IEP students, but a LP students, right?

[00:15:26] Rachel: We've got highly gifted students that need support to make sure that they are where they need to be, that they're achieving growth. And at the end of the day. Those are legally binding documents that give teachers, administrators. Gen ed teachers, sped teachers, a framework of how they need to support these students, a framework that their parents had a voice in creating that their, special service providers, the OTs the speech language pathologists, [00:16:00] all of these other, they're therapists, right?

[00:16:01] Rachel: Had a hand in creating, I think that my child needs X, Y, Z. Data is showing us, the evaluations are showing us that they need all of these things. We have to provide them unless you have that document right, and, and then we're gonna touch base a million times to make sure that we're meeting these goals.

[00:16:24] Rachel: Do we need to change these goals? Do they need to come off some of these goals because they're able to do them really effectively? And this is wonderful. If that document is not there, there is no guarantee that they will be receiving any of those. And you as a parent and your student are not guaranteed to receive any of this individualized education because there's no document.

[00:16:50] Rachel: So if your school is saying those things. Then you say, those all sound absolutely wonderful and I would love for all of those goals to be [00:17:00] part of their IEP plan

[00:17:02] Courtney: Keep, Keep doing it

[00:17:04] Rachel: keep doing it, girl. Keep doing it, Keep doing it, but make sure it's written down and make sure it's in a binding document because we are so crazy busy in schools.

[00:17:17] Rachel: SPED teachers have a million kids on their caseloads. They're so. busy. We cannot guarantee that any student that is not being mandated to be supported when they need these services, right? Do we have documentation that they need these services? Then we need to make sure that we're providing them and the only way that we're scheduling.

[00:17:39] Rachel: SPED providers that we're scheduling service providers that we're putting these people's names on a calendar to give that to your student is if we're mandated to do it,

[00:17:48] Courtney: Totally. Yeah. Yeah. And it brings up a good point too, that I try to reiterate to parents. 'cause they'll be like, the teacher's so great this year. You know, They got all, they have all these things in place. We're doing a reward [00:18:00] chart, you know, all of this stuff. And I'm like, to your point, that's great.

[00:18:04] Courtney: And we need to have all these things written down because they are working so well, so that at the start of next year, we can just. Get rolling with it instead of, you know, waiting three months for the teacher to get to know the student, et cetera. So having, I like to your point though, and even the way you communicated it that's great.

[00:18:24] Courtney: These interventions are so wonderful, so we should put them in their IEP. So that's written document. So I think that kind of goes back to that question. What are some ways that you. Find helpful to open that conversation up with schools to, basically say to the schools like, my student needs more support and you need to do something about it in a way that will be effective.

[00:18:52] Rachel: Yeah. I spend a lot of time drafting emails for families sitting in these meetings, [00:19:00] just like being a sounding board for families that are trying to figure out how to navigate this. Um, And there's a couple of things that, you know everyone needs to know when they're going through this process.

[00:19:15] Rachel: Everything needs to be in writing. Every single thing. This is not a conversation you have at Parent-Teacher Conference. It's a conversation you have at parent-teacher conference about what's going on. This is what I'm seeing. What are you seeing? You know, We went and got them tested for X, Y, Z, and this is what, the data showed.

[00:19:33] Rachel: What do you think about, you know, you can have a conversation. Sure. But the second an email is sent, the clock starts. You need to have every single thing dated. You need to have every single thing in email, in writing, and the second you request an IEP evaluation or meeting, the law is involved.

[00:19:57] Rachel: So there is absolutely no [00:20:00] reason anyone should deny you that meeting. If you are requesting it, it has to happen. And so keeping that in mind how you request that meeting is very important. Again, I lead every conversation I have with every single family. As someone who was a teacher. Was an admin, was supporting children for years and years and, working really hard to teach children.

[00:20:31] Rachel: Okay, so we're gonna start every single conversation with, just from a place of positive intent. We're gonna assume that everyone wants to do what's best for your kid. We are go, it's all about collaboration, not confrontation. We're not starting the email with I have a diagnosis of A DHD, I know he's not being served in your class.

[00:20:53] Rachel: This is what needs to happen. That is not gonna get you anywhere. Okay. Do they legally have to have that [00:21:00] meeting with you? Yes. Do they, are they like. Yay. Let's help this kid and work with this parent. No, they're scared. They're scared, they're overwhelmed, and they're like, great. Okay we're doing everything wrong again.

[00:21:15] Rachel: No. Okay, so we're gonna assume positive intent. We're gonna validate the teacher. We're gonna say thank you so much for all you're doing for. Joey in class, he's having a great year, but as we talked about in parent teacher conference, he's really struggling with X, Y, Z. His evaluation said this and this.

[00:21:36] Rachel: And you wanna include that. A lot of times your, your paperwork is 20 pages long or something. Just take like the top bullet points, summarize them in an attachment and put that in there. You want a piece of documentation of his evaluation in your email but you want to make sure that you're focusing [00:22:00] on the obstacle and how you're all working to support it.

[00:22:05] Rachel: So we know that my daughter has A-D-A-D-H-D. She's struggling with X, Y, Z. You've done so much this year to help, but I think she could need a little bit more support. I request an IEP meeting These are weeks that work for me. Let me know what works for you. I'm so excited for us to work together to support my daughter, to get where she needs to be, right?

[00:22:32] Rachel: That is gonna be met with such like a level of relief. Schools are constantly these days, especially like the bad guys, right? And how can we all work together to give them all of the tools that they need, whether that's an environmental change on a 5 0 4 or a.

[00:22:53] Rachel: Like more in depth personalized education support to meet them where they are and get [00:23:00] them where they need to be.

[00:23:01] Courtney: Yeah, as you're saying this, I'm like, okay, gentleness break. 'cause I'm sure there's a million parents that are like, you know, oh, I should have asked it this way. And you know, I have done it all wrong. And that's not the case.

[00:23:17] Rachel: There's always time to fix it.

[00:23:19] Courtney: Right. We can always go back and have conversations.

[00:23:22] Courtney: There's always new information that we're getting with each school year. Every teacher is different every year too, so there's always, it's never too late to, get the conversation going. And I'm curious your thoughts on what is reasonable as someone who was a teacher, you know yourself what is reasonable to be asking a school to do?

[00:23:45] Courtney: And I'm thinking about, you know, some of the younger kids that I see who have behavior concerns. You know what, or like executive function needs, like what is reasonable for schools and teachers to be able to implement?

[00:23:58] Rachel: Yeah, I think a [00:24:00] 5 0 4 reasonable. Expectation is different than an IEP reasonable expectation, an IEP, reasonable expectation. Like I said, you're sitting down in a room full of experts and they're going over based on their expertise, what expectations are and what things can be implemented, and what things can are reasonable to expect to happen, and then those things are met and do happen.

[00:24:32] Rachel: With a 5 0 4, it gets tricky because it's also so many different things, right? Like my child's struggling with anxiety. My child's struggling with depression. I work with students who have like temporary five oh fours, almost like temporary accommodations. Like they have a health thing that they need accommodations for in the moment.

[00:24:54] Rachel: They need more bathroom breaks, or they need water breaks, or they need to go take a lap somewhere, [00:25:00] right? Those are very different in that a lot of times it's a parent making the request or it's their doctor. It's a pediatrician sending us an email and saying, you know, . this child is struggling with these health things, I think that this, and this would be good accommodations for them for the next three months.

[00:25:26] Rachel: And then we can reevaluate. A lot of time, I spend a lot of time creating behavior plans and coaching parents and the schools on how to implement those at home and at school to, to have the child just have more like consistent behavior expectations. So there's no like set reasonable expectation.

[00:25:46] Courtney: And this is 5 0 4 plan.

[00:25:48] Rachel: Yeah, I think with a 5 0 4, it's very much do you have a teacher that wants to support you in this? Because again, they are not necessarily mandated to [00:26:00] do some of these things. So you can have a 5 0 4 that says your child has a DD, they need.

[00:26:08] Rachel: Preferential seating or something. But if the parent comes in and says, I really think it would be good for him if he could like, take a two minute walk around the school just to like get him moving a little bit. And the teacher could say, no, that's not reasonable. No, we have preferential seating.

[00:26:30] Rachel: We're doing, you know, helping him clean out his backpack at the end of every day so he can keep up with things better, but it is not safe. Or I don't have time to watch him. We're not letting him just walk around the school. Whereas another teacher would say. We can figure this out. You know, I'll have him take a book to Ms.

[00:26:50] Rachel: Johnson's class every day at 10:00 AM and he'll deliver something just so he can get up and move around. So [00:27:00] it's very much, a lot of these like 5 0 4 accommodations, sometimes the teacher or the school's definition of reasonable expectations is different. And depending on who your teacher is, who your admin is, you know what's happening in the school is going to dictate the types of accommodations that you're gonna successfully be able to have.

[00:27:25] Rachel: You'll get some, and yes that's legally required that you are not being held back from achieving what you need to based on your disability. But it's also like. there are limits to that based on who you're working with.

[00:27:42] Courtney: Right. Okay. So there, I mean, there's a big difference between an IP and a 5 0 4 plan. They're not the same. And so even having extra time and a on a 5 0 4 plan doesn't actually mean that they, or that one feels more reasonable.

[00:27:58] Rachel: There will be [00:28:00] things on the 5 0 4 4 plan that they have to meet, right? Like extra time during testing, seat preferential, seatings, whatever. They'll make a plan and they'll have to like provide some of these accom environmental accommodations. Okay. Keep thinking about the kind of where and when type piece, but they don't, they're not a living document, if you will.

[00:28:25] Rachel: An IEP, you get to. Change those things. You get to have meetings, you get to talk to a bunch of people, you get to talk to a bunch of experts about how to support this kid individually over time. Are they going up on services? Are they coming off of some services? All of these things. A 5 0 4, it's like you write down what their diagnosis is.

[00:28:45] Rachel: You write down a couple things that you know y'all could meet. And then if a parent's like, I think it would be really helpful if Joey did this. The teacher could be like. No, we're doing X, Y, Z. We don't need to add A, B, C,

[00:28:59] Courtney: I feel [00:29:00] like it changes as kids get older. 'cause then they're in middle school and then they have five different teachers and it's almost like the student has to be the one advocating for those things because at that point, the teachers aren't paying attention to who needs to do small room testing all the time.

[00:29:16] Courtney: They really, the student kind of has to take some accounta,

[00:29:19] Rachel: And the school for things like that, because there are, I mean there, I think the last time I was reading something, there were like 18 million kids in the US on a 5 0 4, right? Like There's so many kids who require things like extra time on tests, right? So that's fine, because they'll just come in, they'll take a crew of 'em and they'll go and they'll sit in a different room.

[00:29:40] Rachel: Or a quiet room for testing. They'll take 'em and they'll spread 'em out across campus, whatever. But when we're talking about the curriculum actually changing, we're talking about, individualized services for your child. That is not a 5 0 4. And there, there's very [00:30:00] different um, access points to services for your kids.

[00:30:04] Courtney: So as a parent, when would you say, and this is a very broad question, so there might not be an answer, like when would you say it's time to email the school and we really need to request meeting to discuss an IE.

[00:30:24] Rachel: Yeah, I think when you see your child's disability. Impairing their ability to learn, impairing their ability to be successful, impairing their confidence. You know, You could have an A DHD kid that's killing it, that's doing great, that you don't really see it impacting them. You got a diagnosis.

[00:30:49] Rachel: 'cause when they were younger, they were bouncing off the walls and not really able to focus and you didn't really understand what was going on. You got this diagnosis, you. Did some stuff at home. You read some books. You [00:31:00] told the kid's teacher, you guys worked together, but now they're in middle school and they can't get their work done on time.

[00:31:07] Rachel: They can't get these huge readings done, right? Like they can't finish this whole novel and be able to comprehend what they're reading because they can't stay focused when they're reading. Um, you, You start seeing, they have a five page math test. They shut down by page two because they just don't have the kind of focus, yeah, like the stamina to continue to stay focused through this entire thing.

[00:31:37] Rachel: When you start hearing those things from your student, when you start seeing that reflected in the way they view themselves, the way they view their abilities, you need to like, put things in place so that this doesn't become some really long-term detrimental issue for them. Where they are not able to continue to be successful [00:32:00] because they don't believe that they can be successful.

[00:32:02] Rachel: We need to give them the tools to understand that we just need to tweak some things. We just need to change some stuff. We need to give you a little bit of extra support 'cause your brain works a little differently than other people. When you have those supports, look at how successful you are.

[00:32:17] Rachel: And I think that parents a lot of times don't want their kid to be different. They want their kid to succeed at the same level as everyone else. But we know we don't do that as adults. We don't do that out in the real world. And we need to make sure that everything is equitable. And equitable means different things for different people.

[00:32:38] Rachel: And so I think if you start seeing it reflected in their work, if you start hearing from their teachers that they're struggling, if you start seeing in them a lack of confidence and their ability to continue to grow the way they should academically, then yeah, absolutely. Take action and request a [00:33:00] conversation.

[00:33:00] Courtney: Yeah, I think that's really helpful and I love that you're. Pointing the child's confidence out because I think that is such a big thing, right? Kids know, when they get grouped into math groups, they know what math group they're in. I mean, It's so, you know, I've. Lots of thoughts about that, you know, as well.

[00:33:21] Courtney: But yeah, kids know, and so when they, when that's impacting their confidence and impacting the way that they're viewing themselves and their self-concepts, yeah, we wanna make sure that, we're giving them the support that they need. And. It's hard. It's just hard to know, you know, like I'm not all parents even know that a 5 0 4 plan or IEP exists, right?

[00:33:42] Courtney: They think, oh, I need to get outside tutoring or need to work on this and my kid just needs to power through. So it's just really hard, you know, everything that you have shared has been so informative. 'cause it's really hard to know when you don't know. Like you said, you're not an educational attorney.

[00:33:58] Rachel: yeah, you can't access [00:34:00] services if you don't know services exist . If you don't even know how your child is functioning in the world compared to those around them. And so I think not only did parents not.

[00:34:11] Rachel: Necessarily no services, but they don't know diagnoses and they,, , so many parents like run from those things, which I understand because it can be a whole thing, right? I have so much grace for parents who are like, I just don't want a label, or I just don't want my child to believe this about themselves.

[00:34:35] Rachel: I think that's around messaging and just like cultural norms and our kind of view of what a successful child is or a good kid is. And so I think we have a lot of um, growth to do there as a whole society. Because I think. Learning as much as you can about yourself, how your brain individually works, how you like to do things, your [00:35:00] preference in how you learn and how you take ownership around your education or your profession.

[00:35:06] Rachel: The better off you're gonna be, right then, like keeping it from. Yourself or like keeping yourself from knowing your, your full kind of self. So I understand that some parents are scared of it. But I also hear lots that parents just don't know. They don't know. And so I think services like yours where parents can come in and gain actual.

[00:35:29] Rachel: Scientific information around their child and then understanding what services are available to them. That's like the root cause of all of this, right? Like That's the foundational piece to long-term success educationally is understanding what we're working with and how to support it.

[00:35:48] Courtney: Okay, so before we wrap up, what would be, and. Because I have lots of thoughts on this. What would be, if you were to like tell a parent they're feeling [00:36:00] scared, right? Their child is, falling behind academically. They're worried that if they have an IEP that's gonna. Put them at a disadvantage.

[00:36:11] Courtney: Disadvantage when they go to apply for colleges. What would be something from your perspective as the educational advocate and expert in this area, that you would say to parents, I know I wanna like dive into the fears and where there's come from and all the things, but

[00:36:27] Rachel: exactly.

[00:36:28] Courtney: I'm like, what is, what would you say?

[00:36:30] Rachel: What I would really say is this all kind of very much for me depends on. How old your child is. Um, 'Cause I think I would say different things to different ages. If this is a young child, like early elementary, mid elementary I think the conversation around this being used as a tool to create advocacy in the child.

[00:36:56] Rachel: And having them gather [00:37:00] information through these years of supports of, this is the best way I learn. These are tools that I can use to manage my A DHD. Or still be really successful. Learn how to put, executive functioning things in place to make it be. Successful long-term in organization and focus.

[00:37:23] Rachel: And then they graduate from an IEP. They come off of it in middle school. They come off of it in high school because they've learned the tools and the skills they need to be successful independently. They don't need to be doing pullouts anymore. They learned all those tools as a fourth grader.

[00:37:41] Rachel: They don't need to have a sped teacher teaching them how to organize their notebook. They learned how to do that. They learned how to put in calendar reminders or little checklists on their desks or all these things. To give them the tools to kind of move past mandated supports. [00:38:00] And so I think that explaining to parents that this is a tool to support their child's growth, not a lifetime commitment.

[00:38:13] Rachel: Right? This is not. Yes, Yes. And this is not something that has to stick around forever. Like we're most successful at schools when we teach children how to be successful and they come off of some of these needed. We know how to like still learn through dyslexia. We know how to put things in place to help our neurodivergent kids.

[00:38:37] Rachel: They learn that and then isn't that so great? They can go on to higher education or into the workplace with tools to be successful without having everyday supports. Isn't that the goal? So I think framing it that way, especially for parents who are scared of a [00:39:00] label, scared of what this means for them long term, the hope is they don't need it long term.

[00:39:06] Rachel: The hope is we're getting them to a place where they can be individually successful.

[00:39:10] Courtney: yeah. That's super helpful. I like, yeah, framing it as a tool and also. It's helpful for you to just reiterate that. It doesn't mean that they have to have it forever. 'cause I do have parents ask me that, like if they, you know, have a diagnosis of a specific learning disability and reading, does this mean that it's gonna be forever?

[00:39:28] Courtney: And to your point, like they might need some extra supports now and they might, you know, use this time to really learn about what's gonna make them most successful and then they might not need it in the future.

[00:39:38] Rachel: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:39:41] Courtney: Thank you so much, Rachel. Any last minute things that you wanna say to parents?

[00:39:48] Rachel: I think at the end of the day, like we need to give ourselves a lot of grace as parents. Especially navigating [00:40:00] something as difficult as K 12 education. I have done this for a really long time. I know a lot about it, and there are still days where I'm having a conversation with a teacher and I'm like, man, tell me more about that.

[00:40:15] Rachel: I don't really get it. Or, oh, my kid was struggling with that. Huh? I wonder why? What do you think? We need to be able to be curious. It's not a fight. We're not ag, we're not against each other, right? We need to be curious. We need to work together to make sure that all of our students, especially ones who need a little bit of extra support love school and love learning and want to, um. move through life as like informed people. And I think that the more we engage and learn and ask for help [00:41:00] hire people who can be the experts. 'cause you don't have to be the expert at everything, moms and dads. The more our kids see that and they wanna learn and they wanna advocate for themselves.

[00:41:10] Rachel: They wanna find helpers who can help them be the most successful. And, just have a lifelong, desire to learn and go to school and, believe in themselves really, and believe that they can do it.

[00:41:23] Courtney: I love that. It's a great way to end this, helping our kids believe in themselves. So I appreciate your time so much, and I know there's a million more questions we can talk about, so we'll

[00:41:35] Rachel: Yeah, we will. Sounds good. Thanks so much for having me, Courtney.

[00:41:38] Courtney: Thanks Rachel.

[00:41:39] Rachel: I.

[00:41:40] For our listeners, if you are struggling to make sense of school documents or need an ally to advocate for your child, you can find Rachel's practice and her resources at the website linked in our show notes. Thank you again, Rachel, for sharing your expertise on kids these days. Thank you for [00:42:00] listening.

[00:42:00] If anything we discussed today resonated with you, you can find a link to book a complimentary consult with our specialized team at Integrated Behavioral Health in the show notes. Remember, you don't have to be perfect to be a great parent. We are all learning about how to raise kids these days.

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