But you have to know the difference between your rivers and your seas, right?

And so releasing a lot of music has created touring as the sea, right?

By putting out all this music, now I know all Ty Dolla signs music.

I wouldn't have bought his music before, but now I know his music, so I'll go see him perform because I'm connected to that experience.

And the reason we've seen so many people be able to tour now in a way that wasn't possible before is because we know their music well.

What about without touring being an option?

So without touring being an option, now you have to engage your audience because now it's like, you know, and I've been seeing it happening a lot more with COVID And no, I am Jamaican, so big of all the Jamaican artists.

Because one of the things that I've been seeing Jamaican artists do way more than any other genre right now is get on Instagram lives with random DJs, right?

With random people, with random influencers.

Like, yo, Christopher Martin and I were texting the other day and like, you know, he's like, rooks, you know, this, this create fake consultations.

I need to.

I need to take one like, you know, like that.

That is what it goes against the stickiness.

Because now, even if I'm not looking for, you know, Christopher Martin's big, big song that just came out on Aircraft rhydm, I'm.

I'm so much more aware of him because I saw him on this person with 500 followers Instagram story and this DJ from the UK that nobody cared about before.

The intentionality of knowing your market now is so important so that you can stay afloat so that when you do release, you know, and I want to bashment TV out in.

Out in Miami, you know, Beanie man and, and.

And Bounty had their, Their, their verses, right?

Legendary, Legendary.

But, yo, check out these guys in Miami.

They immediately same day released a Beanie Man Bounty Killer T shirt.

Sold out within 24.

Did Beanie man or Bounty Killer put out that T shirt?

Right?

Like, so it's not about.

I don't think.

I think music is one way to engage your audience.

But merch.

And merch is an incredible.

Honestly, people underestimate merch so much that I think that, you know, when we talk about how our artists gonna stay afloat, yeah, it's that merch.

It's releasing the ep, but then also selling the private EP online to, like, your.

Your client to your clients to your consumers.

Beyonce already pre sales, pre sells offer stuff.

Beyonce said all right, I'll do the Disney movie.

And I think that if you don't understand the business of stuff, you'll think that, oh, well, Beyonce just released a surprise album.

Disney already paid for that album, right?

Like, well, Beyonce released Homecoming.

Surprise.

Netflix.

Already people are pre selling, you know, all of this music to us, and we're getting it for free.

And then artists who are trying to build in the same way are looking at people who already have.

Have collected their check on the back end from before the music even came out and said, well, you know what, if Beyonce released as us, you know, many artists now, like, I need to do a surprise album.

A surprise album.

It's only a surprise to you.

It's not a surprise to the other.

It's not a surprise to the producers, to the.

To Netflix is not.

It's surprise to you.

So that you feel like you're, like you're being gifted something.

But that's all going back to like, business plan and marketing.

Because it did feel like a surprise.

Like when Lemonade came out.

Yeah, Lemonade.

You're like, wow, well, who shot those things?

She's, you know, she just beat up a fire hydrant in the middle of the street.

What street was that?

Like, you know, like, it's.

It's just a surprise to us.

And I.

And one of the things I always tell you know, any of my clients, are you in the audience or are you on the stage?

You know, you can't be in both.

You can't have an audience reaction to building your business plan because of what you saw somebody else do.

You need to go and do the research and figure out how these relationships are being made, what is being supported and how it's being done.

Because like I said, you know, an album comes out and, you know, John Legend just released his album.

I'm pretty sure John Legend already has a million placements for those songs.

So it doesn't matter if it does well or not.

Could you tell the audience what a placement is as well?

So, yeah, like, a placement is like Sync Sync.

So.

So one thing I am launching in the near future is Sandbox Sync.

We have been working for the last two years to develop this across the country.

Very excited to premiere Sandbox Sync, which is like an urban.

I don't even know what to call it anymore.

Like, is an R and B, hip hop, reggae, dancehall world music digital library for music supervisors and for people trying to place music that is all Canadian content that follows all the maple rules.

So we've been building this for the past two years because we're trying to get artist placements.

So placements are, you know, in movies, in film, in, in, on tv.

You know, when they want to sell some XL gum, is it your song that's playing in the background?

Right.

You know, and I think that this is where a lot of people don't realize the value of understanding the music industry push a T Guan's so like, you know, invincible because he made the McDonald's jingle.

Right.

He's made more money from the McDonald's jingle than people who are.

So you have to really understand when a Justin Timberlake is doing super well, but he's saying what that means to his.

His bottom line.

Yeah, right.

And so like placements are incredibly important and that is actually the way of the future.

When you think about how people are consuming media.

People are watching 10 Netflix shows back to back within a 48 hour period of time.

You know, just recently I, I watched May I Destroy youy by a Michaela.

Michaela, she's from the uk.

She did chewing gum, Michaela Cole or something.

What stream is that?

What platform?

So it's on hbo, but you know, the first thing that comes out and shout out my girl, Lil Sims, like little Sims.

Every time she comes to Canada, we link up.

But like Lil Sims has like four placements on that.

It's on hbo.

You.

Most people don't know who Lil Sims is, but Little Sims has gotten placement after placement after.

That's their game over there.

Like, you know what I mean?

And like, you don't have to be a incredibly commercially successful artist to be an incredibly successful artist financially.

And to those who don't know, the maple rules aren't just like the laws of syrup in Canada.

Yeah, it's maple made in Canada.

Artist is Canadian, production is Canadian and the label is Canadian.

So that's a maple made.

It's actually really cool.

I was like, did they come up with maple first?

But it's actually very smart.

But yeah, so that's, that's pretty much one of the biggest things I'm excited to bring to the market here because I do think that placements are the, are the way of the future.

Definitely.

Yeah.

Wow.

That's incredible.

So I've been sitting here listening.

I've known you for a good while now.

Good.

I would say like 10 years.

Yeah.

But I've learned so much about you too, actually.

I'm just mesmerized.

I'm sitting here listening.

I'm like, I've learned so much about how much you've been able to accomplish and how much you've been able to help others and relationships that you fostered and from where you were then to where you are now.

I mean, it's been incredible to watch and even just to hear about some of the journey here today, if it's okay, I want to go back a little bit too, so you can maybe fill in some of the blanks here.

It is a Thursday, right?

A little throwback Thursday vibe.

Yeah.

So let's go back a little bit and just fill in some of the blanks and just tell your story from there.

So I know you did.

You dropped some names, too.

You mentioned Drake, which we always have to do, being from Canada.

Can you tell us a little bit about some work that you did with drake back in 2011 12.

So it was really cool to, like, watch Drake's coming up because, you know, I will always have the most respect for Drake as somebody in the music industry in Canada, because nobody valued him.

I don't.

I don't.

I don't know why people don't really want to acknowledge or be honest about the fact that nobody cared about Drake.

You know, you would walk.

You.

I had.

I was so obsessed with Drake when I was younger that I would walk into rooms and like, talk about Drake and people like, yo, nobody cares about that guy.

I'm like, yo, I had two ipods.

One was just for Drake.

I was that obsessed with him.

I was like, this is my.

Because I used to skateboard, and I would just skate to Drake.

Okay.

Back when you only had, like, a gig.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

That's why you needed two ipods, because I was like, okay, I want to listen to 24 songs.

Okay?

So, like, yeah, back in the day, like, I.

I was up, and I would walk into rooms, and people really didn't rate this guy.

But, like, one of the things that he did from the jump was put together his business, you know what I mean?

And his team.

And, like, thinking about the longevity of how to.

You know, I dare say, as well, Drake was fun.

One of the first influencer crossovers from television.

Drake, whether you're talking about, like, Canadian or not, globally, I feel like Drake was one of the first people that really used, hey, I'm on tv.

Let me drop some music, and let me allow my followers from my TV career to engage with my music career.

And then went and, you know, in different areas, in different spaces, decided that he was gonna, like, plant these seeds.

But, you know, watching him was so important.

To me that working with him was like the, the main goal.

It wasn't about, you know, how popular he'd become or whatever.

Like being around celebrities.

Like, you know, shout out my mom's.

I grew up around celebrities.

You know, my mom was a, a model.

One of the first black models ever signed to Eleanor Fulcher.

You know, she was on Heat in the Night.

You know, shout out my godparents, like they're the founders of Carabana.

Like, I grew up around celebrities, you know, so I, I'm not mesmerized by that life, but when I had the opportunity to, to, for, for, for Drake to do the co write placement with, with, with my artist at the time for Rita Ora, you know, just even the way he navigated it, the way he dealt with it, you know, getting to work with his lawyers, you know, one of the things I really will shell Drake out on was the fact that he dealt with me first and then it was like, talk to the lawyers, you know, and then any issue I had, I was able to like, hey, I'm, I'm like trying to.

Because he understood I was learning.

Hey, I'm trying to navigate this.

Well, okay, cool.

Like, I understand where you're at.

This is how you should talk to the lawyers.

And so, you know, in many ways I feel like if this environment was more receptive to him, I think that he's, he would have been able to teach us a lot.

But even in the height of his career in the States before, like, you know, he became what he.

People were still denying his, his success here.

Yeah.

Which was like.

And I think a part of that.

You know, this is a little off topic of the work I've done, but the Canadian music industry is slow to supporting what they didn't build.

Right.

Canada is like very like, wait, did we fund that?

Did we touch that?

Okay, let's ignore it.

Like, that's the craziest thing that I see here with funders that I see here with, you know, did you get shortlisted or long listed for a Polaris prize or a Prison prize?

Well, did you get funded?

If you got funded, I'm sure you.

Made the list and that's why we have Maple in the first place.

Exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

It's, it's so.

But yes, working with Drake was incredible.

Shout out Drake for coming to the, to the release party.

People were like, oh my gosh, she works.

You really, you really know him.

Like, he really, he's really here, you know, and it, you know, to this day, like always somebody that shows love and.

And is supportive.

So, you know, shout out Drake and OVO and.

And what they're doing.

Wow.

So I.

I know Anthony had asked about the beginnings.

Can you specifically talk about how you got into artist management?

Yeah, you know, I was a little bit of a rambunctious kid.

No, I.

Honestly, I.

I was out of my house at 15, and, you know, it's so crazy to me now.

Like, I came out as, like, queer when I was, like, 15, and it was very disruptive to, like, my life.

Like, I was like a.

A quad.

A varsity basketball player on the debate team, honor roll.

And, like, now I'm out my house and, like, you know, I grew up pretty sheltered.

You know, I just, like, went to church most of my life.

And, you know, secular music was like.

Like, to this day, people were like, yo, you know this Wu Tang song, and I'm like, I know Kirk Franklin song, Fred Hammond's song.

And, like, you know, I really.

In church, like, for real, in church.

And, like, so, you know, coming out and then, like, being put into this new world where, like, you know, at the time, like, 50 Cent was, like, dropping and, like, gangster rap had become, like, so popular.

Like, I felt like, you know, I was just, like, dropped into this other life.

But, you know, within that, I realized the influence of music, right?

Like, I never really understood how powerful music was until, like, G Unit releases these really ugly tank tops and everybody's wearing them.

You know, I'm like, did you see yourself?

They're like G Unit.

Like, you know, I didn't really understand the.

The.

The impact of music in that way because, like I said, I grew up in church, and you just wore church clothes.

Like, I didn't own Air Force ones or, like, you know, sneakers that were, like, a part of the hip hop culture.

I wasn't a part of the hip hop culture.

And.

And, you know, being Jamaican, like, hip hop even to this day in Jamaica is not a popular, like, music.

Like, you know, you don't hear people listening to rap in Jamaica really, you know, so, you know, like, for me, getting dropped into it, it was just so infectious how much influence it had.

And then, you know, around, like, 18 years, 18, 19, I met a young woman who's now who used to be called PG but now goes by Layla Day.

And it was literally like this one moment in my life where I don't know if anyone's from Scarborough.

There's this thing called, like, Lion's Den.

And there was this competition there called Rock the Mic.

Yeah, Rock the mic.

And it's so crazy to me how, like, things can't sustain in Toronto.

Like, this is something, like, people don't.

But really nothing sustains here.

But that thing was, like, the most popping thing for like, a year and a half.

Like, everybody was there.

Johnny Rocks was there.

Kim Davis was there, and Drina Mill was there.

Layla was there.

Like, everybody would go there and perform.

Tory Lanez.

I met Tory Lanez at this thing, his first performance ever on God.

Like, that's why Tory still comes to Sandbox when he, like, on God was Tory Lanez.

And they booed him.

Wow.

And this guy jumped up on the table and said, I swear to God, y'all gonna regret this day.

I'm gonna be the biggest.

Like, jumped on the table.

Okay.

And I was like, yo.

And after that, like, I pulled up on him, like, yo, you were actually super dope.

And, like, tried to get him into studios, but his story is real.

Like, he really couldn't afford to come from Brampton to Toronto to get into studios, you know?

So we continued to build and have a relationship.