Visibility grows through trust, not cold

outreach, right? Because the best pitches, they feel like a

continuation of an existing relationship. That's to me,

that's what creates the best episodes.

This is the entrepreneur school podcast

where we believe you can run a thriving business and still make

your family a priority. This show is all about supporting

you, the emerging or early stage Entrepreneur on your journey

from solopreneur to CEO while wearing all of the other hats in

your life. My name is Kelly Sinclair, and I'm a brand and

marketing strategist who started a business with two kids under

three. I'm a corporate PR girl turned entrepreneur after I

learned the hard way that life is too short to waste doing

things that burn you out on this show, you'll hear inspiring

stories from other business owners on their journey and

learn strategies to help you grow a profitable business while

making it all fit into the life that you want. Welcome to

entrepreneur School.

Hello, hello and welcome back to another round of the summer

strategy snack series. This is your quick hit guide to staying

visible in your business without creating content or relying on

social media. In case you didn't know, I'm taking the entire

summer off of social OMG. I'm writing about it in my email

diaries. So make sure that you are on my email list and

following along to this series, because every episode dives into

one visibility strategy that you can start implementing now. And

I've also created a free resource to help you build your

visibility habit over the summer. It's called the 90 day

visibility sprint starter kit, and you can find the link to

grab these actual tools that I use for planning and tracking

visibility in the show notes. Okay, so I feel like I have been

saving up to record this episode for months. Today, we are

talking about podcast pitches, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

I get pitched by dozens of people every single week, and

honestly, most of these pitches are really bad, so sorry, but

not sorry. Today I'm pulling back the curtain on what makes

me instantly delete a pitch, the reasons I say no, and what

actually makes a pitch stand out, which are few and far

between. But you are going to learn all of the secret sauce to

making that happen if you've ever pitched to be on a podcast,

or you're planning to this episode, could seriously shift

your strategy. So I want to start with like, the real

problem of podcast pitches, and this is coming from. One, I've

been a podcast host now for over two years. And two, my

background is public relations. So one of the things that we do

a lot in PR is media pitching. So pitching to get clients on

media, different media channels, so, TV, radio, newspaper, online

articles, you name it, I have pitched all of these things, and

the core philosophy behind this is media relations, aka which

now includes podcast outreach is a boat demonstrating value. You

have to think about the value that this can bring to a podcast

listener. So the host job is to provide value to their

listeners. Your job, if you're pitching, is to show them how

you're going to help them to do that. And I have to say, I'm

going to take a stance here. Whole pitching rarely works.

Most of my guests, 99% of my guests, are people that I know

personally or were referred by a collaborative partner, and I

have never personally cold pitched to be on a podcast

myself. This is not an approach that I take as part of my

visibility. And I have been on probably over 50 podcasts at

this point, maybe more, I don't know, and that's because you

have to think about this podcasting, created podcast is a

very time intensive process. It requires planning, recording,

editing and promoting, and if you haven't seriously,

extensively listened to a show, I do not recommend that you

pitch to be on that show, because there are going to be so

many nuances and elements that you're missing that just

demonstrate that you're not an avid listener. And. And that's

something that we want to know as podcast hosts, that you

really understand what we are all about and who we are really

for, so that you can make that easy connection of why what you

want to talk about is going to be valuable to our audience. So

if you're pitching, you can just shift your mindset from how do I

get featured, to how do I make this a valuable conversation for

the host and their audience, and focus on that that's the number

one thing to bring in to a pitch. And again, that pitch can

be to somebody that you've met that makes it way easier, like

100 times easier. So there's my like, fast hot take off the top

of this episode, but I do have for you, 1239, red flags of what

to not do in your podcast. Pitch when you're reaching out. So

again, if you're already moving away from cold pitching to

pitching people who you have a relationship with, that's

already going to take you so much farther. But here's what I

don't like when I see things that I don't like.

Number one is fake personalization. I get a generic

loved your most recent episode. It has no detail, no proof that

they've actually listened to it. All they have done is gone into

my history and, you know, dropped to the title of recent

episode or conversation like that I did, like, last week, one

time I got an email from a podcast, like, from a pitch that

was an episode that had been released like, 12 minutes ago.

Like they couldn't have even possibly listened to the episode

because it just went live, and I got the email so early in the

morning, it was like, how, how did you even get this in here?

So it's just so obviously fake personalization. It's like lazy

flattery, and that's a big red flag.

Number two is the obviously AI generated language. Okay, I have

to actually read you some podcast pitches that I have

received to talk about what not to do here, and I will remove

names for the sake of privacy and, you know, embarrassment. So

first of all, there are some AI phrases that just completely

make me cringe. Like this episode really hit home, or it

resonated with me, or quote was a refreshing perspective. Or,

here's my favorite one, it struck a chord. Who says it

struck a chord? Nobody says that, don't write that. Don't be

a robot. Okay, so for example, here are a couple of literal

quotes that I'm taking from that just it's just like a repeated,

like templated, obvious pitch quote. Listening to your recent

episodes has been a highlight for me. I particularly

appreciated the latest in the vanity metrics detox series,

which is a series that I did and how you talked about

opportunities hiding in the momentum of past achievements,

it reminded me of guest pitch name whose approach aligns

seamlessly with that idea. I think guest would make a

fantastic guest for your show. Great next one. Your latest

episode on performative visibility really struck a chord

with me. Well, there it is. The idea of spending so much time on

quote, looking visible rather than generating real business

results was an eye opener. The mantra for detoxing busy work is

something I've already pinned to my wall, and then they go into

pitching the guest? Yeah, I just can't like it's just so

obviously fake, and I'm not into it. I'm a relationship person,

so that's not happening for me. All right, try not to make this

too much of a ranting episode, but that's where we're going. I

guess

Number three red flags are the can I pitch you messages? Okay,

so I appreciate that you're trying to keep things simple by

like having a short email that says, you know, are you the

right person? Is this your process? I want to make sure

that I'm following but probably you could have found that out

online, on the website, if there's a section on a regarding

podcast guests and how to how to apply. But I really feel like

this is adding a step right. And if you are being a respectful

person who understands that a podcast host gets dozens of

pitches, plus all of the follow up pitches, like a lot of them

are doing, like three to five follow ups within two weeks, and

I just haven't gotten to that yet. So what you're doing by

adding a Can I pitch you email is just really clogging up my

inbox and adding a step, just go ahead and pitch, pitch right off

the bat and and you could add at the end if you wanted. You know.

So if this isn't where you like pitches, please let me know. I

would happily, you know, fill out your form or do whatever

else if you want to make a point of, like, just showing that

you're ready to be flexible and do whatever the host is looking

for. But I'm not gonna respond. I recently just got like, two to

three emails from the same person asking if they could

pitch before like so they still haven't pitched me. They've just

sent me multiple emails about whether or not they could apply

to be a podcast guest, and that's just taking up time that

I don't have.

Okay, Red flag number four, pitching just your story. So

personal journey without a clear takeaway, that is not going to

land for most podcasts unless the podcast is very much just

about stories. But I don't think that there's that many that are,

you know, doing it that way anymore. You need to know that.

You need to know what the takeaways are, what the

actionable insights that the audience is going to get out of

it, not just like Cool story, that's what we're sharing today.

So I just skip over those ones that that don't have a clear

takeaway.

Number five on my red flags list is boastful BIOS with no topic.

So I get a lot of pitches, and usually these are from PR firms,

or people who are pitching on behalf of somebody else, not

somebody themselves, generally, that's just like a really long

this is how much money this person has earned, or how many

companies they've built and sold, or they've they're

featured in Forbes cool. But what is your angle? Like? If I

have to ask a question about what would this conversation if

I can't clearly see what this conversation would be like on my

show, I'm skipping over this pitch,

which takes me to number six, which is irrelevant topics you

need to do research. Okay, okay, I'm sorry. I feel like I sound

like a jerk. I am mostly irritated by pitches that come

from PR firms. And I will circle back to why at the end, this is

just like, I think it's bad practice. You should know

better, because you have training in this area. And I can

say that because I do not to do these things. So this is who I'm

talking to, primarily, and you get to learn from my like rant

against them, on how to adapt this for your own personal

podcast guesting journey. So irrelevant topics, you need to

know what the podcast is about. Don't pitch things that have

nothing to do with the show. Like my show has a very general

name. It's called entrepreneur school, which makes people think

that they can talk about anything related to making money

at all. But I don't talk about real estate, I don't talk about

cryptocurrency, I don't talk about investments like there's a

lot of things I don't talk about on this show, in fact, and if

you actually listened and did research, you would know that.

So don't pitch irrelevant topics to a show. Make sure that it's

very aligned or it's not going to go anywhere.

Which takes me to number seven, which is clearly no show

research, no reference of past episodes, how they align, no

awareness of what has and hasn't been discussed, because that's

the other thing is, if something has been like recently published

on my show, I'm not going to do it again, right? Like I have

talked to, you know, finance people, accountants, mindset

people on the show, but I don't put those episodes out close

together. I like to space it out so that we have a variety of

topics and guests and things like that happening. And so

would most podcasts. So make sure that you have done the show

research

Number eight, trying to match past guests. So I see a lot of

like, my client is like your last guest, and what I really

want is how you're different, right? I'm looking for fresh

voices, not more of the same. So don't say that. You know, we are

aligned, and I can talk about the same thing. I don't want to

talk about the same thing. I want to talk about different

things. So talk about where there's a gap and where there's

something that you can fill in and bring a different

perspective on and

number nine is mass pitches from PR agencies. Okay? Zero

personalization here. No clarity. I think the problem

really is that you know, and speaking to somebody who worked

in media, and I know what clients want, I know that the

result they want is placements, right placements, meaning they

get featured in the media. But we cannot guarantee that as PR

people, and we can also not guarantee how many podcasts we

can get you on. Hmm, which means the only thing that they can

guarantee is how many podcasts they pitch for you, and then, as

a result, there's probably, like, a percentage that they'll

likely get. But I think that's the issue, is that PR agencies

are promising quantity, and that is really sacrificing quality of

alignment. And I think I have accepted maybe one guest pitch

about from a podcast in the past, and it was very early on

before I had more established relationships for podcast

guests, so I don't think I would maybe even ever accept a PR one

again. And that's not just because it's coming from a PR

firm, but it's just so clear that this I feel bad for people

who are paying somebody to pitch for them and they're getting

this kind of result like this is what's happening on the back

end. So if you're currently in that place, and you've hired

somebody to pitch for you and you're not seeing good results,

I would go and ask them to share the pitches and make sure that

they're not setting off any of these red flags that I've shared

in this episode.

So let's turn this around and make it a little more positive

and action oriented for you into what makes a pitch stand out,

and the first one is genuine listener engagement, like if

some of the cold pitches that I have received, that I've

actually accepted onto my show have mentioned a specific

episode, have screenshotted a review that they left, I thought

that was An extra great step to take somebody who's actually

listening like, and I know that they're listening because of the

way that they reference my show, episodes that weren't just like

the one that came out yesterday, but ones that came out, you

know, months ago, or they've really, like, dug into the

archive, or they really get the theme, and it just is so clear

In the pitch.

The second thing I love about pitches that stand out are

relationship based approach. So do you have a connection to

somebody who's been on a show that you can like, speak to, oh,

I saw you had my friend. Insert person's name here on your show.

You know, here's our relationship. Or I tend to also

speak to that kind of audience, but this is my different

perspective. Like I love that. I love a good, honest and

authentic name drop that helps.

The third one is show understanding. So please do tell

me where you see a gap or a unique angle that hasn't been

covered. That's what I'm looking for. I recently just got a

pitch, actually, that I will reply to that said, I haven't

seen you talk about this on the show before. And I was like,

You're right. I haven't talked about that. I am interested to

hear more about what you have to say about that. So that's a

really great way to to show how you are engaged, aware and know,

know the topic and the audience of the podcast.

And as I was saying from the outset here, another pro tip is

audience first framing. So tell me what my audience will gain

from hearing you. My job as a podcaster is to provide value to

my audience, and you have to think about how you can help me

to do my job. That's the same when it comes to media. That's

the way that we get media coverage. Is I know who your

audience is, what they want to know, and here is how we can

talk about that. So it's about the audience. It's always about

the audience.

And the last one I want to share on the pro tips that make your

pitch stand out are keeping it clean, like, don't give me six

different paragraphs of topics that you could cover. Pick one

to two, I like it's okay to have options. I think that's a good

thing, but I don't want to read a really long, heavy worded

email. So things that have, like, really clear bullet points

in them, of talking points, and then maybe you attach a one

sheet with your bio, with links to previous things in it. That's

kind of, again, the same approach that I use for media

pitching, which is what we call a pitch note, which highlights

the key points, but then there's more information available if

the journalists that you're pitching is interested, and that

keeps the inbox clean. It just keeps it easier to read and

review. Because I tell you, like, I'm going to be honest,

I've been struggling to set up the proper system to manage all

of these pitches, and so as a result, what happens is I don't.

I just ignore them all. That's why I only have had guests who I

know, who I'm having conversations with, directly in

other ways, who I'm doing podcast swaps with, whose shows

I'm also being featured on. And part of that is that, you know,

I just get there's just too many there's too many emails, and

there's too many follow ups. And sometimes, like these ones that

come from PR agencies, they're sending me multiple pitches for

different clients with the same template and the same timeline,

like I have, I think, two or three, because I, I was just

looking back, for the sake of this episode, I wanted to, like,

get some real kind of data and review the podcast pitches that

I get, just to make sure it wasn't me just being, you know,

too lazy to read them or something, but I have one person

who sent me like, it's the same subject line, but as the

different guest name was, like, terrific guest recommendation,

colon, And I don't mind that, like it's obviously a pitch in

the in the subject line, that actually makes it easier for me

to organize things, but I end up having all of these podcasts,

pitches, too many to review, too long, too many follow ups before

I have chance to even get back to them, and it just becomes a

big mess in my inbox, and it's overwhelming, and so I just

don't deal with it. So that's what happens. And so therefore,

you know, think about that too. If you've done cold pitching

before, that might be the case. The get the host may just be

like, completely overwhelmed with pitches, and that doesn't

mean that your pitch was bad, but maybe there's a different

way to reach out and connect with them, to start that

relationship, because that's the bigger theme that I want to

leave you with here, is that it is about relationships, so

visibility grows through trust, not cold outreach. I think it's

just a reframe on podcast.

Pitching can be about building a relationship with somebody who

has a podcast, instead of doing podcast research and sending

three cold pitches a week. If that's kind of how you hide your

mindset, maybe you could flip that right, because the best

pitches, they feel like a continuation of an existing

relationship. That's to me, that's what creates the best

episodes, the people that I have on here, that I have, like

previously talked to, the conversations are so much

better. The ones that I have accepted from cold pitches are

maybe somebody who I thought, you know, could fill in a gap

that I hadn't talked about before, but that conversation

was much more, you know, transactional, and it's obvious

if you've listened to the show you can you can probably pick

those out. Feel free to send me an email with your suspicions if

you want to chat through this episode afterwards. But in the

end, this is all about being visible and being generous, and

then opportunities will start to come to you. So it's entirely

possible to be podcast pitching in under 10 minutes because it's

more of a like, Hey, I just need to drop a voice note to this

other person. Like, latest podcast I just booked for myself

came from a Voxer conversation. It was somebody that I met an

event A few months ago. So there you go.

So here's your takeaway, most podcast pitches fail because

they're too self focused, too generic or just plain lazy, but

you you're going to do better. Your pitch will be thoughtful,

strategic and generous, and that makes all the difference. And if

you're loving these snack sized visibility strategies, remember

to grab the 90 day visibility sprint starter kit. It's your

key to building your visibility habit with low lift strategies

that you can implement in under 10 minutes a day, and the link

is in the show notes. Now next week is a total treat. I am

bringing on a guest who grew her email list by over 3000

subscribers in under six months without a huge audience or an ad

budget. She's going to walk us through exactly how she did it,

what worked and what surprised her along the way, and you won't

want to miss this. I'll see you next week.