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On this episode of the Dudes and Dads Podcast, we're talking with our friend Darren all about

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raising kids who are empathetic.

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You're listening to the Dudes and Dads Podcast, a show dedicated to helping men be better

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dudes and dads by building community through meaningful conversation and storytelling.

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And now, here are your hosts, Joel, Damana, and Elaine.

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Andrew.

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Joel, so I just got a tweet.

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I tweeted out right before we went live and said, "Hey, we're going to be doing this

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podcast."

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Yes.

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And I said, "Hey, we're going to live."

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Yes.

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And Justin said, "You're going live during Sunday Night Football.

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It's going to put a dent in their ratings."

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Yep.

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You're right, Justin.

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Wow.

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You were right.

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Bold comment, Justin.

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We will live into the unlikely truth of that statement.

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Hey, everybody.

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Thanks for joining us here at the Dudes and Dads Podcast.

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Glad to have each and every one of you along.

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I'm having a great night.

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Speaking of football, the Lions won.

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Congratulations.

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Go Detroit.

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And the Tigers won today.

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Hot in the AL Wild Card playoff spot.

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Joel, this is our year.

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So I'm in three fantasy leagues.

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I know this is a lot for me.

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Wow.

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Oh, okay.

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So I just realized-

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Three?

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Yeah, I'm in three.

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I already got a family one.

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I'm in a church pastors and their kids league.

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And then also my work league.

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You are, shall I say, enveloped in fantasy.

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I know.

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And this week, my win probability against my opponent in my family league is good.

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My work league, I have...

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Oh, this is surprising me because last I looked, I was like, "Not going to win."

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You were not going to win.

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I was going to win there too.

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Okay.

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Hold on one more.

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This is the church league.

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This is the one that really counts.

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I have 1% winning.

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A 1% chance to win.

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You have a 1% chance to win.

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I looked after church today and realized that I had some...

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I think two or three of my players were out and they'd already been locked in.

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That'll do it.

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Andy, you got to stay on top of that roster.

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Listen, I was doing things at church today.

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I couldn't...

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You were.

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You were serving the Lord today and the...

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Were you...

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I was doing live stream video.

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You're doing live stream video.

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Always in the live stream.

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Yes.

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Gosh, Andy, apart from a real rollercoaster of a fantasy league experience and apart from,

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gosh, all of my teams winning today, what else is going on?

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You doing okay?

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Things going all right?

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Doing great.

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Doing great.

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Yeah.

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That was a great weekend.

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We had a good time.

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So good to be back in the studio.

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We were full tilt band parents, marching band parents on Saturday over at the Penn High

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School.

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I forgot, and I shouldn't have forgot because I too am a recovering band kid.

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Because of the size of our school, we tend to play...

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We play in the evenings.

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So it's like the winter.

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Aaron, what time did you guys play?

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Like nine o'clock?

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Nine o'clock.

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Nine o'clock.

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Nine p.m.

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Nine p.m.

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Nine p.m.

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Wow.

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That's getting close to daddy's bedtime.

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Let's be clear.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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So I...

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So but it's turned off.

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We have to load semis at high school, 3.30 p.m.

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Unload 6.30 p.m.

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Get everything out.

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This was our first time really moving all of this stuff.

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I was assigned the band generator.

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Because they have a generator out there.

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Didn't think of this.

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We're back up in case the power fails.

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So you can play in the dark.

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So they can...

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Yeah.

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So they can...

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Because they've got all their keyboards and all this sort of stuff.

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Yes.

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So we have all of our new electrical equipment.

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Yes.

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And that's why we need it.

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Got it.

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Okay.

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So you're in the new electrical age.

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They have a new...

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Yeah.

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So long story short, that generator, to hoist that across multiple parking lots at the high

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school was surprisingly difficult.

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I'm sure.

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Anyway, so I gotta get band fit is what I need to do.

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Because Aaron also informed us that he's strongly considering doing what is known as winter

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percussion, which all anyone needs to know is it just means I will be pushing more stuff

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across parking lots is really what it comes down to.

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So anyway, but a good time.

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They got first place in their division.

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Yeah, it was super great.

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So Goshen Crimson Marching Band.

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Great job, everybody.

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That was super cool.

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And so that was...

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But that took the whole...

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Really the whole Saturday.

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Oh, yeah.

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Let's call it what it was.

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So it was awesome.

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Anything for you going on?

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New big things?

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Exciting things?

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Nothing new, except for I'm really enjoying, again, tonight we're streaming into the Zoom

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meeting, which anyone can join and have back channel access, backstage access.

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Backstage behind the green curtain, if you will.

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Yeah.

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There's a lot of mystery here at this podcast, and we're letting you in.

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Dudesanddads.com/join will get you there every time we're there.

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So if you want to join us, dudesanddads.com/join.

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But we also want to thank Everence because support for this podcast comes from Reverence,

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dedicated to helping make Medicare an easy step through education, seminars, individual

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consultations.

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Learn more at Everence.com/medicare-monday.

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Securities Incorporated offered through Concourse Financial Group, Securities Incorporated,

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member FINRA, SIPC.

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Nailed it.

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I'll give that eventually.

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Yeah, well, hey.

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FINRA.

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FINRA, SIPC.

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Hey, and everybody, once again, we want to just thank those of you that have jumped on

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the awesome bandwagon so far to support our upcoming technology.

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Well, it's our current technology and upcoming technology needs as we are needing a new high

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powered, quality high powered laptop to make this the show happen.

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All the things.

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Right.

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Because we currently have one, but it is one we're borrowing from an employer and we're

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not going to be able to do that much longer.

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And so we...

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Andy's current laptop is the last bet.

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We have slowly over the last five years actually started using our own.

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We've borrowed, initially we borrowed everything.

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Right.

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Borrowed or...

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And thanks to you guys, really, thanks to you guys, we've been able to purchase our

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own equipment.

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This is the next one and it's a big one.

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And we just want to say every dollar helps.

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So if you are able to contribute to the Dudes and Dads podcast, new computer fund, make

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this show happen fund, don't let us die on the vine fund.

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Wow.

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You have all sorts of...

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I'm working on another capital campaign right now for work and I'm really dialing into the...

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The title is important.

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Sweet.

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So you can join us and help us out at dudesanddads.com/help.

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/help.

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Dudesanddads.com/help.

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Thanks.

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Thanks everybody.

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All right, Joel.

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Hey, we've got...

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What's up tonight?

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Hey, our friend Darren Schrock is on the show with us and I'm super excited about it.

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Let me say, he is a alumni.

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He is a Dudes and Dads alumni.

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We were just discussing this about when it was because...

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Because we have a hard time remembering how long ago guests have been on the show.

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Right.

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And it was back in '21.

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Is that right?

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February of 2021.

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A long time ago.

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So...

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When we were barely even...

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Probably it was probably not even legal for us to be in the same room together.

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I don't even know.

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Hi, Darren.

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Hey, thanks for being with us, man.

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Appreciate it.

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Thanks for having me.

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Oh, you...

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Fantastic feedback.

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Isn't it?

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Isn't it?

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It is.

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We were just...

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Well, I mean, it feels like it was six months ago.

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Yeah.

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That's how everything is.

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We were talking about that the other day.

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Yeah.

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Just go super quick.

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Time flies.

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Yeah.

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I think it's one of those things where we always feel really, really excited when someone

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who's been on the show agrees to come back on.

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That to me is a sign that we haven't poisoned them to the experience.

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That's good.

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Also good.

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Tonight, we are...

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Man, we're diving into this conversation.

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And this conversation, as I told Andy, really came...

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Darren and I were getting coffee earlier last week.

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Again, the days fly by.

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And we were having a conversation around... Well, there's multiple... So many things we

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talked about.

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But one of the things that we talked about was developing... Well, the experience of

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either our kids... Encountering our kids on their empathy development journey.

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I think that's a nice way of saying it.

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Because depending on their age, season of life, gender, and a myriad of other things,

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our kids can have varying degrees of empathy.

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And that is the ability to enter into someone else's thought world and experiences and emotions.

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And I will say, sometimes when talking with your kid and trying to help them understand

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how maybe they made someone else feel or how they're making you feel, that feels... It

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makes you feel like a crazy person.

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And you have this sense that it's important.

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The empathy is important.

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And the big conversation right now is... And this is, I think, the baseline thing that

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I wanted to put out.

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And I was checking on this earlier, 'cause I was like... I thought my memory... Again,

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the memory slips and it fails.

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I thought I was accurate on this.

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Really, this is a conversation about emotional intelligence, ultimately.

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And emotional intelligence, for those of you that don't know, EQ is the... We gotta have

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the abbreviation for it.

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That is a big conversation in the workplace.

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It's a big conversation also in just leadership development, in our own... The kind of predictors

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for success in life in general.

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So whenever we're talking about emotional intelligence, those are five core categories

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of the makeup of a person's personality and an EQ score or an EQ assessment that you can

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do now.

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It's really designated as the highest predictor of success in life, and that's career and

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otherwise.

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So five categories that make up emotional intelligence, self-awareness.

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And again, I want you to think through the lens of you as the adult, but then also your

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child at whatever life stage that they are, however old they are.

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Think about these things.

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Developing self-awareness, motivation, self-regulation, social skills, and finally the big one which

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we're talking about tonight, empathy.

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So those categorically are the things that we as human beings want to develop in order

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to be, we could say, global, globally, like responsible citizens, engaged people within

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our communities.

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And also, if you encounter someone who is an emotionally intelligent person, you know

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almost right away, and in general, that you want to be around them more.

275
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And if they are not emotionally intelligent, which we have all met those people as well,

276
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we've perhaps worked with them or maybe had them in our extended families or our social

277
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groups or whatever.

278
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Those are people that... The people with low emotional intelligence are the people that

279
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when my wife says, "Hey, we're doing XYZ tonight, and so-and-so is going to be there, and they

280
00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:21,000
are a low EQ person," I find myself like the energy draining out of my body or having to

281
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,960
like summon a certain energy within myself to go and do that.

282
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,760
Is anybody else with me or am I the only jerk here at this table?

283
00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:30,080
Do we know what I'm talking about?

284
00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:31,080
You know, that person?

285
00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:32,080
Okay.

286
00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:33,080
Great.

287
00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:34,080
So this is...

288
00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,040
We're establishing the foundation here.

289
00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:37,960
Emotional intelligence is important.

290
00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:42,140
One of the categories with key categories or subcategories within emotional intelligence

291
00:11:42,140 --> 00:11:43,600
is this empathy thing.

292
00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:48,860
And when we're talking about empathy, we are talking about the action of understanding,

293
00:11:48,860 --> 00:11:55,320
being aware or being sensitive to and vicariously, big word guys, vicariously experiencing the

294
00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,360
feelings, thoughts, and experiences of other people.

295
00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:02,280
I think it's important to note too, that's also without taking them on as your own.

296
00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:03,280
Yeah, yeah.

297
00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:04,280
Because you can...

298
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:05,280
That's a whole different thing.

299
00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:06,280
Right.

300
00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:10,280
And then just bringing them on as your own is something else other than empathy.

301
00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:14,120
The ability, Andy and you and I were talking about, Darren, our challenge is always on

302
00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,120
these episodes is like, what's the show title?

303
00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:21,360
'Cause the show title is like the framework for which we build out the conversation.

304
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:23,160
And Andy was really pushing me.

305
00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:24,520
He's like, "What do you want the show title to be?"

306
00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,480
And I was like, "Well, this is kind of like...

307
00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:32,520
It's kind of like helping our kids walk in other people's shoes kind of thing, if you're

308
00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:33,520
talking about that."

309
00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:34,520
I like that.

310
00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:35,520
It seems like that's right, I think.

311
00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:41,360
So, Darren, right now, I'll put you on the spot.

312
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,440
And this is always the fun part 'cause it's like, we'll talk about our kids respectfully,

313
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:50,240
but inevitably, whenever we're having these conversations, these conversations are informed

314
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:55,800
by interactions we have had with our kids, either our interpersonal relationship with

315
00:12:55,800 --> 00:13:00,760
them or their relationships with other peers or people they're interacting with.

316
00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:10,800
So right now, and then I wanna have this conversation of our immediate experiences with this here

317
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:12,160
at this table.

318
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:13,780
And then I'm gonna throw a little social...

319
00:13:13,780 --> 00:13:17,580
As I like to do on occasion, throw a little social science in here 'cause I came across

320
00:13:17,580 --> 00:13:22,640
a very telling, interesting article about empathy, specifically amongst teenagers, which

321
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,840
will be interesting.

322
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:33,600
But Darren, I'm wondering, thinking of your family, thinking of conversations you've had

323
00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:45,600
in the past recently, what is the biggest challenge that you feel like you have?

324
00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:49,640
And then I'm gonna share and then Andy can share what his thoughts are.

325
00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:54,240
The biggest challenge you have with just having the conversation with your kids of trying

326
00:13:54,240 --> 00:14:02,420
to get them to understand how another person might be feeling in a situation, to get them

327
00:14:02,420 --> 00:14:08,080
to just enter into that space slightly.

328
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:09,080
What is hard about...

329
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,080
'Cause it is hard.

330
00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,560
From your sense, what is hard about it?

331
00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:21,300
I think at this age, they're trying to create their own identity, right?

332
00:14:21,300 --> 00:14:24,780
And that's a lot of navel-gazing.

333
00:14:24,780 --> 00:14:27,140
What is my identity?

334
00:14:27,140 --> 00:14:28,620
I'm embarrassed.

335
00:14:28,620 --> 00:14:32,080
This is awkward is what I hear a lot, right?

336
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:36,520
And so they're focused on themselves and probably that's a healthy thing to do.

337
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,000
I need to figure out myself.

338
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:46,400
And so that's the focus of their mind most of their day, if we're honest.

339
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:52,700
And so empathy requires them to put that aside and say, "Oh, this is how this person feels

340
00:14:52,700 --> 00:14:54,360
and this is how I made them feel."

341
00:14:54,360 --> 00:15:00,200
Whether that's me or their mom or their sibling or like you said, with friends.

342
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:05,980
And I think that getting them to kind of step away from that and kind of step out of themselves

343
00:15:05,980 --> 00:15:09,060
is the biggest challenge that I've seen in our house.

344
00:15:09,060 --> 00:15:10,060
That makes a lot of sense.

345
00:15:10,060 --> 00:15:15,960
Just think for just a second how that might impact somebody.

346
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:16,960
This is a...

347
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:21,960
And just as Darren said, I was thinking about this the other day.

348
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:27,460
In their middle school and high school years, it is a uniquely self-focused time.

349
00:15:27,460 --> 00:15:34,780
Even just think about two kind of circles that they exist, that our people can exist

350
00:15:34,780 --> 00:15:35,780
in.

351
00:15:35,780 --> 00:15:37,020
So academic circle.

352
00:15:37,020 --> 00:15:43,200
So what am I going to do to get certain academic outcomes that I am required to do that mom

353
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,940
and dad are expecting of me and that school administrators, whatever.

354
00:15:46,940 --> 00:15:53,180
So I need to do good on this test, these exams, this class or whatever.

355
00:15:53,180 --> 00:15:54,460
So what do I need to do?

356
00:15:54,460 --> 00:15:55,500
What can I do?

357
00:15:55,500 --> 00:15:56,660
What can I get away with?

358
00:15:56,660 --> 00:15:59,000
What can I not get away with?

359
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:06,060
That's a part of self-focus that is a little bit built into the system that they're in.

360
00:16:06,060 --> 00:16:08,440
That's a part of it.

361
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:16,880
And learning that they are being compared against their peers in certain regards to

362
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:17,880
that.

363
00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,880
That's reality.

364
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:25,420
And that's unfortunately or unfortunately, that is a part of life that they will continue

365
00:16:25,420 --> 00:16:30,780
to experience for the next several years and also into whatever they decide to do for profession

366
00:16:30,780 --> 00:16:33,640
or whatever it is.

367
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,220
And then also extracurricular activities too.

368
00:16:36,220 --> 00:16:42,440
So sports, athletics, I mean, they might start off in those places as we do with whatever,

369
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:47,020
T-ball, we're not keeping score.

370
00:16:47,020 --> 00:16:49,680
All the kids get to bat.

371
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:54,680
But eventually it's like you will or will not make the team.

372
00:16:54,680 --> 00:17:00,760
And that is going to be determined by how much a certain level of focus and things that

373
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:06,820
you're accomplishing within yourself to either be a part or not be a part of that group of

374
00:17:06,820 --> 00:17:07,820
people.

375
00:17:07,820 --> 00:17:12,660
So in terms of that, that's a self-focus.

376
00:17:12,660 --> 00:17:13,660
What do I need to do?

377
00:17:13,660 --> 00:17:17,660
I, I, I, what do I need to do?

378
00:17:17,660 --> 00:17:22,640
And I wonder, and Darren, I don't know if what your family, the conversation has been

379
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:27,480
around this, I feel like this is maybe not a strong point for us, probably not a strong

380
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,560
point for us and our family.

381
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:35,640
In light of the fact that there's this kind of system of self-focus and reasonable self-focus

382
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:42,280
at this kind of developmental time, how, like, what are your thoughts as far as just like

383
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:48,520
mom and dad trying to figure out, okay, how do we interject other non self-focused experiences

384
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,020
into their life at this time?

385
00:17:50,020 --> 00:17:55,080
Like to, to, I'm not saying counteract, but to bow, to bring balance.

386
00:17:55,080 --> 00:18:03,880
Cause I think that's part of the empathetic journey a little bit is to help, like you

387
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:08,040
said, help us step back a little bit, help us have a little bit larger, you know, maybe,

388
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,120
you know, maybe it's not a two foot perspective.

389
00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:12,880
Maybe we can get up to 10 feet.

390
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:13,880
I don't know.

391
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,680
He did somewhere a little bit above, above the, you know, above the plane.

392
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:18,680
Yeah.

393
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:19,680
I don't know.

394
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,800
I don't know if you have any, just to have any kind of experience with the thoughts about

395
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:29,000
like either intentional, most of the stuff that we do is like by accident and we realized

396
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,000
like, Oh, hopefully that was helpful.

397
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:42,080
Just in terms of introducing our kids to yeah, just not, not being so self focused all the

398
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:43,080
time.

399
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:47,520
Cause I feel like, I feel like I should figure that out.

400
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:52,520
And I'm not to cut you off, but I think that's tough too, because yeah, I mean, like you'd

401
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,000
mentioned, you know, kids at that age are trying to figure out who their own identity is.

402
00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:02,200
A lot of them is self focused because they're trying to figure out who they are and what

403
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:03,840
they stand for and all of that stuff.

404
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:05,680
So I think, yeah, that's a, that's a tough one.

405
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:07,680
So Darren, take it away.

406
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:08,680
Yeah.

407
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,560
I can tell you what definitely does not work.

408
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:11,560
Perfect.

409
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:16,520
Just perfect telling them this is what's going on.

410
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:17,520
You're being selfish right now.

411
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:18,520
And I need you to stop.

412
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:20,600
I need you to stop doing that.

413
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:27,480
No, I, I think part of what we focus on as a family is to, is to have them just have

414
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,800
interactions with other kids as much as possible.

415
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:38,000
I honestly think that the more they're in front of a screen talking to each other, unless

416
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:39,320
they're able to see that.

417
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:44,840
And so it's, I kind of grumble at how much we're driving our kids around to hang out

418
00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,800
with other friends and I will grumble until they have their own license.

419
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:53,520
But at the same time, I have to remind myself that this is how they figure it out.

420
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,320
You have to be around other kids cause they're going to mess up because their friends mess

421
00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:58,320
up too.

422
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,440
I mean, they're just their kids and they're going to fumble through it and there have

423
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:06,260
been those moments and thankfully, you know, and thankfully sometimes they want to talk

424
00:20:06,260 --> 00:20:08,360
to us about it and we can kind of talk through it.

425
00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:14,280
But you know, it's, it's, I think also just them learning that life sometimes does not

426
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,840
go out as planned and that they mess up too.

427
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:17,840
And we can talk through that.

428
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:23,680
I think learning about it yourself and seeing your own faults is helpful to understand that,

429
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:25,360
Oh, somebody else is going to feel the same.

430
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:32,040
I went through that and I can figure out and my kids are seeing older kids reach out to

431
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:36,260
them and say, Hey, I know you're feeling this way cause I felt that way.

432
00:20:36,260 --> 00:20:40,080
And they're not only learning how to interact with their peers, but they're learning that

433
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:44,560
once I'm older, I can also reach out to younger kids and say, Hey, I went through that too.

434
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:45,560
So it was so funny.

435
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:51,320
I'm glad you said that Aaron got a text message from one of the senior band leaders on the

436
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:58,760
way over here and it was, and I, I plant, I plan on sending a very, very nice text message

437
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,880
to the parent of this high school senior because it was a big deal.

438
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:08,240
It just, just thinking Aaron for that in band together and just thinking Aaron for his,

439
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:14,260
his help and just kind of the intent intentionality that he brought you know, kind of above and

440
00:21:14,260 --> 00:21:16,720
beyond sort of things this past weekend.

441
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:22,360
And I, I was so number one, I was so impressed by that.

442
00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:27,640
Any time a high school student just that who's older recognizes the impact that they can

443
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:28,640
have.

444
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:29,900
That's that's, I love that.

445
00:21:29,900 --> 00:21:30,900
It's super cool.

446
00:21:30,900 --> 00:21:36,760
Brings kind of their perspective up a little bit and encourages them to, I think it's funny

447
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:43,100
cause it's like, yeah, I know those kind words went went way farther than some of my, some

448
00:21:43,100 --> 00:21:44,100
of my encouragement.

449
00:21:44,100 --> 00:21:45,100
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

450
00:21:45,100 --> 00:21:52,820
Of course you're going to say, but yeah, this, but this, this outside voice was just so immensely

451
00:21:52,820 --> 00:21:53,820
encouraging.

452
00:21:53,820 --> 00:21:54,820
It was really, really good to see.

453
00:21:54,820 --> 00:21:57,200
So I love, I love when those sort of things happen.

454
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:04,120
And another thing I, and I, gosh, Jackie and I had this conversation that day.

455
00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:09,760
She brought it to my attention when she said, she asked the question about, she's like,

456
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:14,480
you know, when you and I were kids, we hung out with other kids seemingly a lot more.

457
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,800
She's like, is this just my perspective?

458
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:24,580
She's like, cause, cause I, I like our two youngest kids are, are way more, it feels

459
00:22:24,580 --> 00:22:26,760
a little bit more like social and hang out with friends, but they have friends that are

460
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:27,760
right in our neighborhood.

461
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,760
So there's like a little bit of an ease, you know,

462
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,880
I was just going to say that too, cause you know, my kids, I think, you know, we live

463
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:38,720
out in the country, so it's hard for us to have that where they're hanging out necessarily.

464
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,520
And now they are, I mean, they, they will go after youth group and go to Culver's or

465
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,000
whatever and they'll go to different places like that.

466
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,120
You have to use group, but I don't think nearly as much like we were, I was riding my bike

467
00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:50,120
across town.

468
00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:52,000
Like I was always with somebody.

469
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,000
Yeah.

470
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:54,000
Yeah.

471
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:55,000
That's an interesting point.

472
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:56,000
Yeah.

473
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,000
I think, and well, and now with texting too, I mean, yeah, they'll say we're around people,

474
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:03,120
but you know, cause I've seen them like this the whole time texting, but yeah, the, I just,

475
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:07,040
I thought it was really, I just thought it was a really interesting idea that Darren

476
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:08,040
connected.

477
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:09,040
I think it's really interesting that you're with you on this.

478
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:14,920
It's kind of like aha connecting, spending face to face meaningful time with other kids

479
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,960
and being able to put yourself in the position of other people.

480
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:24,920
And that if you're doing that by proxy instead through, through a screen or through electronic

481
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:32,360
form, that it actually can, there's gotta be research about this, like deadening our

482
00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:35,120
empathy toward people.

483
00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:37,800
Well depending on how we're interacting.

484
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,880
I think that is true because I mean, obviously we've seen it as adults, right?

485
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:47,200
On Facebook, you can do a one-on-one when you're with somebody we're pleasant and whatever,

486
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,960
but then on Facebook you see it and they're right over the stupidest things, right?

487
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,720
We don't have, we don't cause it's always like, well, I'm behind the screen.

488
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:58,680
I don't have the accountability, even though they know who I am and they see my name, it's

489
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:03,860
still easier to get into fights where if I was in real life with this person, they probably

490
00:24:03,860 --> 00:24:05,600
wouldn't say the same things to me face to face.

491
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:06,600
Right.

492
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,160
I think that has something to do with empathy because it's harder to feel, it's harder to

493
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,040
feel for people when you're there behind a screen.

494
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:14,040
Yeah.

495
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,040
It really is.

496
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:16,040
That's, that's good.

497
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:20,440
I'm hoping that they can figure it out just as a generation that has grown up with it.

498
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:26,000
I'm hoping they can kind of figure that out because it's interesting that I, my experience

499
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:30,520
with that, what you're, what you're talking to referring to is, is with adults who didn't

500
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:31,520
have screens in sight.

501
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:32,520
I don't know.

502
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:33,520
Yeah.

503
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:34,520
I don't know how that's going to go.

504
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,680
I feel like it's an experiment that we're in the midst of right now.

505
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:38,680
Absolutely.

506
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:39,680
Right.

507
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:41,280
I think that that is true because you are right there.

508
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:46,240
And like we, we all didn't grow up with screens, you know, for the most part.

509
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,960
And so for us now it's easiest to hide behind the screen, but what's that going to be?

510
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:56,920
And that may have to do too with when you give your kids screen, you know, as far as

511
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:57,920
that goes.

512
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,980
So that may be an interesting experience too, to see if that matters when, when they got

513
00:25:01,980 --> 00:25:02,980
their screen.

514
00:25:02,980 --> 00:25:04,400
Yeah, absolutely.

515
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:10,280
So, so yeah, there's kind of this baseline value of empathy and, and just saying, okay,

516
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:15,320
empathy is important because it's directly connected to flourishing, just doing well

517
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:21,080
in life, both now and in, into the future of future adulthood.

518
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:27,880
If you learn empathy and under and understand empathy, well more is going to go right for

519
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,800
you than it goes wrong relationally speaking.

520
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:31,800
Yeah.

521
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,200
I mean, it's, it's interesting.

522
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,880
So I'm in the process right now of being trained as a Steven minister.

523
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:39,880
Oh yeah.

524
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:41,120
And so there are a lot of that.

525
00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:44,800
We are talking about like empathy and learning that.

526
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:49,760
And so even us as adults, like are having to learn that, right.

527
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,360
And go over that and how to, how to, how to have that.

528
00:25:52,360 --> 00:25:56,160
That's a perfect segue, Andy, because I'm sure this is part of your conversation and,

529
00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:01,440
and forgive me, cause the Steven ministry thing is about like, about like eight years

530
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:10,920
in the eight years ago for me, but the upon understanding empathy, then the, how to actually

531
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:17,520
rightly empathize with a person, not taking on their, their full perspective and knowing

532
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,800
that we really can't ever fully do that.

533
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:24,000
You can empathize with somebody without, without necessarily agreeing.

534
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,800
And that's one of the things we talk about a little bit is the whole idea of you can

535
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,520
empathize with somebody without necessarily agreeing with them.

536
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,080
You know, you can, you can see their side, you can empathize with them, but not necessarily

537
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,080
be like, yes, you're right.

538
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,000
And I think some people have, have trouble seeing that.

539
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,400
And, but I think it's important to teach our kids that right.

540
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:47,480
Because there may be friends that, that they don't see eye to eye on, but it's okay to

541
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:48,480
empathize with them.

542
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,760
And it's okay to, yeah, because I think the tendency, tell me what you guys think the

543
00:26:52,760 --> 00:27:00,320
tendency for our, for our kiddos is, is when they are, are sideways relationally with someone

544
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,040
or they don't agree with someone is to do the opposite of empathy.

545
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:10,880
Like it's, it's like a hard, like, like they're, they're dead to me and, and, and not necessarily

546
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:17,680
like, I don't, you know, I'm saying that kind of in a harsh way, but it's a, might there

547
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,520
be an assumption that if they don't agree with a person, then they're not obligated

548
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,320
to be empathetic toward them.

549
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,960
Is that, is that maybe what happens?

550
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:27,960
I don't know.

551
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,320
It probably happened, I mean, it happens with me with an adult as an adult, maybe, but with

552
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,760
them probably, I don't know.

553
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:38,080
Cause it's, cause maybe they don't have the cat, like I, again, and some child psychologists

554
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:43,360
could tell me, but just maybe they don't have the categories exactly to be like, okay, how

555
00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:45,520
do I, and this is a major life skill.

556
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,280
How do I recognize that what they did or what they're doing or what they're promoting is

557
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,780
not something that I agree with.

558
00:27:51,780 --> 00:27:58,740
And yet I need to be able to enter in to some degree to, to a place of understanding, well,

559
00:27:58,740 --> 00:28:03,700
maybe here's how they got there or here's how they, cause again, this feels like kind

560
00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:07,740
of a life skill that is really important for any of us when trying to, I mean, conflict

561
00:28:07,740 --> 00:28:11,100
resolution or any of that.

562
00:28:11,100 --> 00:28:17,080
I just, I'm just thinking, I'm just thinking about like how, how my kids talk about other

563
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:23,020
kids with whom they disagree on a particular topic with and maybe there's something to

564
00:28:23,020 --> 00:28:24,020
that, I guess.

565
00:28:24,020 --> 00:28:27,860
So as a parent, how do we, how do we help teach our kids that?

566
00:28:27,860 --> 00:28:31,100
I mean, I think, I mean, I think experience goes a long way, right?

567
00:28:31,100 --> 00:28:35,760
Like, I think you said there, and when like walking alongside of them and being like,

568
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:42,020
Hey, maybe you could, you know, like kind of explain to them like other, not, maybe

569
00:28:42,020 --> 00:28:48,240
not explain is not, maybe not the right word, but show them or point them out that, Hey,

570
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:54,160
maybe this person XYZ, maybe the reason they're doing this is X, Y, you know, maybe that's

571
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,520
not the case too, but you know, just kind of point out there's more than just what meets

572
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,080
the eye and the immediate situation.

573
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,880
Like all you see is they may have backstabbed you and talked about you to your friends and

574
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,000
now there's an issue, but there may be something else going on there.

575
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,820
So like, how, how do you guys, Darren, I'll pick on you.

576
00:29:12,820 --> 00:29:17,100
How do you, how would you explain that to your kids?

577
00:29:17,100 --> 00:29:19,260
I well, and I'm not a child psychologist.

578
00:29:19,260 --> 00:29:20,260
Sure.

579
00:29:20,260 --> 00:29:21,260
Yeah.

580
00:29:21,260 --> 00:29:22,260
Right.

581
00:29:22,260 --> 00:29:28,040
I think, well, when I think about what makes it easier is a certain amount of self esteem

582
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,620
or a certain amount of self assurance, right?

583
00:29:30,620 --> 00:29:36,580
Because when, when a child, when we're automatically enemies and therefore I'm, I'm not a part

584
00:29:36,580 --> 00:29:41,040
of your group, I think it takes a certain amount of self assurance to be able to say,

585
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:47,760
uh, I can, I can, I can not identify with you, but also put myself in your shoes and

586
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:52,440
I'm not worried about jockeying for, I'm in this group or I'm a part of that group, which

587
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,460
is really difficult at that, at this age.

588
00:29:56,460 --> 00:30:02,500
And so, and that is, I think self esteem just plays a huge role in that, at least from what

589
00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:05,200
in my, even in my own personal experience.

590
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:06,200
Right.

591
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,340
Because you have to be pretty comfortable in your own skin.

592
00:30:08,340 --> 00:30:11,080
How you implement that in a child is right.

593
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:15,200
Well it's, I think it's, I think it's different for us adults because we know, we know who

594
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,440
we, we know who we are, right?

595
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:23,960
We know we're, we're, there's not that, that clicks that groups of people, those things

596
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,680
that if you do something wrong, then you're going to be made fun of by the whole school.

597
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:28,680
Right?

598
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,360
Like most of the time I'm not going to get made fun of by my whole work employee.

599
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,300
You know, I might maybe a little bit, but right.

600
00:30:35,300 --> 00:30:36,300
Not the whole thing.

601
00:30:36,300 --> 00:30:39,600
And even as an adult, you kind of get that skill of letting that roll off your back.

602
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:40,600
Right.

603
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,300
I think, I don't know if that's a skill or a detriment, but you have that.

604
00:30:44,300 --> 00:30:46,920
And as kids, you don't necessarily have that.

605
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,880
I mean, I remember times of it's hard.

606
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:54,840
Like there's this choice, there's this kid who's maybe not the most popular kid and he's

607
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,600
being picked on or like, how do you, how do you have empathy for that?

608
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,820
How do you, how do you do that without going, Oh, I'm standing up for him.

609
00:31:01,820 --> 00:31:02,820
I'm going to be made fun of.

610
00:31:02,820 --> 00:31:07,320
Like there's that, there's that conscious, like fighting in your head to do what's right.

611
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:08,320
Yep.

612
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:09,320
Yeah.

613
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,160
And I think so, Darren, I think what you said is, is perfect.

614
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:17,200
Like that self-esteem that self knowing who you are outside of everybody in your classroom

615
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:18,760
helps go a long way.

616
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:19,760
Yeah.

617
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:24,400
And I, and I, and I don't take, it's really easy, especially with four kids.

618
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:30,400
It's really easy to see all the ways that your kids don't do the right thing.

619
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:35,860
That's what you focus on a lot of times, but I think, and I need to do this more, right?

620
00:31:35,860 --> 00:31:39,340
There's they should hear more about who they are from us than we are not.

621
00:31:39,340 --> 00:31:42,340
And that's a challenge for me.

622
00:31:42,340 --> 00:31:49,600
That's probably one of my worst, worst aspects as a father, but that is something that I

623
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,260
think speaking that into them and saying, this is, this is who you are.

624
00:31:53,260 --> 00:31:58,340
And then feeling comfortable to say, okay, you know, I, when they show up and it, and

625
00:31:58,340 --> 00:32:02,840
the rubber hits the road, they can be that person that stands up in that kid.

626
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:03,840
Yes.

627
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,880
And cause I've seen my children do it again.

628
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:10,820
You see that it's taking the time to stop and say, Hey, I saw how you did that.

629
00:32:10,820 --> 00:32:11,820
And that was fantastic.

630
00:32:11,820 --> 00:32:12,820
Yeah.

631
00:32:12,820 --> 00:32:16,480
And I think they hear that more than anything else.

632
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:17,480
Yeah.

633
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:18,480
That's cool.

634
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:19,480
Cheering on.

635
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:26,840
And again, this is going to sound like super non-scientific, but there's, there's a lot

636
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:33,200
of good evidence around the idea that if you want, if you want to affect positive behavior,

637
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:39,540
key in on the positives, talk that up, act like one of my favorite and like, this is

638
00:32:39,540 --> 00:32:46,740
a, he's a, we'll call it a not safe for work sort of you know, media mobile business middle

639
00:32:46,740 --> 00:32:47,740
Gary Vaynerchuk.

640
00:32:47,740 --> 00:32:51,700
Like I spend a lot of time listening to Gary V. He uses the F word a whole lot.

641
00:32:51,700 --> 00:32:54,820
So that's why I just have the, the pause on that.

642
00:32:54,820 --> 00:33:03,060
And he, you know, he, he talks about immigrant immigrant family that came from Belarus just,

643
00:33:03,060 --> 00:33:06,500
you know, his dad, he was helping run his dad's store, like from very, very early age.

644
00:33:06,500 --> 00:33:09,780
It was, it's one of these, you know, these kind of these stories of like started from

645
00:33:09,780 --> 00:33:10,780
nothing.

646
00:33:10,780 --> 00:33:11,780
They build a business.

647
00:33:11,780 --> 00:33:15,260
It was just, but it was like night and day hard, hard work.

648
00:33:15,260 --> 00:33:20,080
And, and he, people are always like, what makes you tick?

649
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,740
He's like, I have an out of control self-esteem.

650
00:33:22,740 --> 00:33:26,700
Like there's like out of, and he's in there in this whole conversation, he goes, because

651
00:33:26,700 --> 00:33:34,420
my mother, every time I would do something that was like morally correct, like to, you

652
00:33:34,420 --> 00:33:36,540
know, took the right road on something.

653
00:33:36,540 --> 00:33:42,300
She would celebrate it like it was like over, just over the top, acknowledging it.

654
00:33:42,300 --> 00:33:43,300
Right.

655
00:33:43,300 --> 00:33:49,620
And, and so I just became this kid that was like, not just minorly confident in doing

656
00:33:49,620 --> 00:33:52,860
the right thing, but like very confident in doing the right thing.

657
00:33:52,860 --> 00:33:55,900
Like it is all doing the right thing is always the right choice.

658
00:33:55,900 --> 00:33:57,740
It will always be the correct way to go.

659
00:33:57,740 --> 00:33:59,900
You know, just, and that cemented that into him.

660
00:33:59,900 --> 00:34:05,420
So that when he went off into future life and again, started his own company and all

661
00:34:05,420 --> 00:34:11,580
that from, from nothing and was doing things like doing things like you, if you guys, if

662
00:34:11,580 --> 00:34:17,180
you can think about this, doing like wine reviews on YouTube before anybody was doing

663
00:34:17,180 --> 00:34:22,340
anything like using YouTube as a platform for like before people were doing that and

664
00:34:22,340 --> 00:34:27,420
like had like, you know, just a few people watching, like it was like, you know, whatever

665
00:34:27,420 --> 00:34:29,100
and just stuck it out.

666
00:34:29,100 --> 00:34:32,420
And now it's like, that's a whole other thing.

667
00:34:32,420 --> 00:34:33,980
So he passes that on too.

668
00:34:33,980 --> 00:34:40,380
I mean, I mean, interactions he has with, he does it for other people, which is really

669
00:34:40,380 --> 00:34:41,380
cool.

670
00:34:41,380 --> 00:34:44,620
You get 30 minutes with him in a room, you walk out of that room, you honestly think

671
00:34:44,620 --> 00:34:49,340
you're like, I can take on the world, like I am, I have everything I need to do this.

672
00:34:49,340 --> 00:34:54,300
And so that's the, uh, gosh, that's going to be, that's going to stick out in my head

673
00:34:54,300 --> 00:34:55,300
here.

674
00:34:55,300 --> 00:35:00,820
I think like, I need, I really need connecting this with empathy.

675
00:35:00,820 --> 00:35:06,380
Like I really need to be instilling that level of confidence in my kids to kind of, cause

676
00:35:06,380 --> 00:35:14,060
it's a little bit of the, it's kind of the gas that, that the engine runs on.

677
00:35:14,060 --> 00:35:15,780
I think that's, I think that's what's happening.

678
00:35:15,780 --> 00:35:19,580
So you guys, you know, listen, we just, we sit here, we talk long enough, actually, actually

679
00:35:19,580 --> 00:35:20,580
figure out what's going on.

680
00:35:20,580 --> 00:35:28,180
So, so I think too, like as parents, it's good for us to have empathy for our kids too,

681
00:35:28,180 --> 00:35:33,100
because I know how many times that I've, I've come home and like, there's something out

682
00:35:33,100 --> 00:35:37,540
in the yard or something that I'm just like, and I immediately probably know who the, who

683
00:35:37,540 --> 00:35:42,300
the culprit is, but like for one, I can't jump to those conclusions.

684
00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:44,700
I shouldn't jump to those conclusions, but are you right?

685
00:35:44,700 --> 00:35:45,700
90% of the time?

686
00:35:45,700 --> 00:35:46,700
Yes, you are.

687
00:35:46,700 --> 00:35:50,980
No, but I mean, even empathy, like I don't know what was going on.

688
00:35:50,980 --> 00:35:55,060
Like, I don't know, maybe he had did, you know, did something and then got called away.

689
00:35:55,060 --> 00:35:58,060
Like I can't go in and be right mad at him.

690
00:35:58,060 --> 00:36:04,940
But the, or her, or her, or her, but the other thing I was thinking too, Joel is when you

691
00:36:04,940 --> 00:36:09,060
were talking about Gary V and having that like positive, positive, positive, positive,

692
00:36:09,060 --> 00:36:10,060
positive.

693
00:36:10,060 --> 00:36:15,500
I also have heard and experienced like the idea of when you're going to give criticism

694
00:36:15,500 --> 00:36:17,660
to do that criticism sandwich, right?

695
00:36:17,660 --> 00:36:20,780
That like positive, like whatever.

696
00:36:20,780 --> 00:36:22,340
Love how you're doing this.

697
00:36:22,340 --> 00:36:28,740
Would just like to see more here, but remember also just doing great, positive things that

698
00:36:28,740 --> 00:36:31,160
need to correct it.

699
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:36,820
Just like when I bring my staff in for the year, for their annual review, you're doing

700
00:36:36,820 --> 00:36:39,100
great, but we don't want you to work here anymore.

701
00:36:39,100 --> 00:36:40,100
No, no, thank goodness.

702
00:36:40,100 --> 00:36:43,900
I'm not, not having any of those conversations.

703
00:36:43,900 --> 00:36:44,900
Yes.

704
00:36:44,900 --> 00:36:49,820
And the, you know, the challenge, and this is, this was part of the conversation Darren

705
00:36:49,820 --> 00:36:55,140
and I had earlier over coffee was the older I get, or there seems like to be at a season

706
00:36:55,140 --> 00:37:01,700
where I have, I'm having a harder time putting myself in my kids' shoes.

707
00:37:01,700 --> 00:37:02,700
Absolutely.

708
00:37:02,700 --> 00:37:09,380
That, that is where at 25 me remembering what it was like to be a 13 year old, that's a

709
00:37:09,380 --> 00:37:16,700
lot easier at 40 plus I pointed in the end when I said 40 plus, I'm sorry if you guys

710
00:37:16,700 --> 00:37:18,340
didn't get the visual joke.

711
00:37:18,340 --> 00:37:19,340
It's okay.

712
00:37:19,340 --> 00:37:21,500
It should be the both of us.

713
00:37:21,500 --> 00:37:22,500
I'm over 40.

714
00:37:22,500 --> 00:37:23,640
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

715
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:34,320
So at 40 at 40 and beyond like when I'm talking to my 14 year old, it's, it's kind of like,

716
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,840
I recognize the value of trying to like put, okay, like, okay, I want to understand and

717
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:46,800
be able to speak rightly to whoever challenge they're going through right now, but I am

718
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:56,420
probably pretty quick to dismiss like the love, the level of intensity or severity because

719
00:37:56,420 --> 00:37:57,420
why do you think that is?

720
00:37:57,420 --> 00:38:00,340
Well, because I know that in the end it's going to be okay.

721
00:38:00,340 --> 00:38:01,740
I know that it's good.

722
00:38:01,740 --> 00:38:02,740
I gotcha.

723
00:38:02,740 --> 00:38:03,740
I gotcha.

724
00:38:03,740 --> 00:38:06,900
So you're saying you have less empathy for them.

725
00:38:06,900 --> 00:38:13,460
It because, well, I stand, I stand to, I, it is possible that I would have less empathy

726
00:38:13,460 --> 00:38:21,220
because my older adult perspective, I can convince myself, which this is not correct

727
00:38:21,220 --> 00:38:26,260
at all because the fact that I know that their current situation is going to be just fine

728
00:38:26,260 --> 00:38:31,400
does not excuse me from rightly entering into it lovingly and rightly entering into their

729
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,080
and into their world and trying to put myself in their shoes a little bit.

730
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:40,160
I just think it, knowing what we know as adults or people who have lived longer, it's just

731
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:44,860
easy to kind of like side trip, like take a side route and be like, and be like, be

732
00:38:44,860 --> 00:38:48,100
like, yeah, yeah, I could feel bad for you right now and ever, but here's the deal in

733
00:38:48,100 --> 00:38:49,100
like a week.

734
00:38:49,100 --> 00:38:51,060
This is not going to matter.

735
00:38:51,060 --> 00:38:53,900
When you wake up.

736
00:38:53,900 --> 00:38:54,900
Yeah.

737
00:38:54,900 --> 00:38:57,920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

738
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:05,340
So I think that was just, I know as we were talking, that was kind of like a, okay, to

739
00:39:05,340 --> 00:39:10,140
what degree do I need to be able to return to that, that space?

740
00:39:10,140 --> 00:39:14,160
Cause I feel it getting more, I need to number one, acknowledge it is getting more difficult.

741
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:19,340
There's a, or at least right now it feels like there's a season of like, I really have

742
00:39:19,340 --> 00:39:27,180
to put forth a pretty considerable amount of energy to like get my, find myself in this

743
00:39:27,180 --> 00:39:31,680
place where I can like appropriately, not, not, not like overly sore or anything over

744
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:35,320
the top, but appropriately come alongside of you and say, yeah, I see how you feel.

745
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,780
I see how that would, I see how that would be tough.

746
00:39:37,780 --> 00:39:42,900
I, and you know, oh, I, and I understand why you're feeling this way.

747
00:39:42,900 --> 00:39:48,780
I think sometimes for, for let's just say us guys, cause that's the three of us are

748
00:39:48,780 --> 00:39:49,780
talking are guys.

749
00:39:49,780 --> 00:39:50,780
Yeah.

750
00:39:50,780 --> 00:39:56,540
For those of us who have girls, sometimes that can be hard too, because we, we, I mean,

751
00:39:56,540 --> 00:40:00,700
if we're doing empathy, correct, I don't think it does, but sometimes it does cause we just

752
00:40:00,700 --> 00:40:01,700
don't understand.

753
00:40:01,700 --> 00:40:03,700
There's lots of different things at play.

754
00:40:03,700 --> 00:40:05,020
We've never experienced that.

755
00:40:05,020 --> 00:40:07,900
We were never a girl growing up.

756
00:40:07,900 --> 00:40:12,180
And hormones are different and lots of things are different.

757
00:40:12,180 --> 00:40:16,700
And so for us as guys, sometimes it is hard to do it.

758
00:40:16,700 --> 00:40:18,760
So I mean, let's talk about that.

759
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:23,620
Like how, how do we, how do we be empathetic with maybe the opposite sex of who we are

760
00:40:23,620 --> 00:40:27,980
versus, I want to get, I want to get Darren's honest opinion on this.

761
00:40:27,980 --> 00:40:33,500
Cause I'm wondering because Darren has older, older girls.

762
00:40:33,500 --> 00:40:34,560
Mine is only eight.

763
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:41,780
So I'm still, she's eight and I feel like her and I maybe have at times the best mind

764
00:40:41,780 --> 00:40:42,780
meld connection.

765
00:40:42,780 --> 00:40:46,980
And I'm not sure what that says about me, but like you get your Taylor Swift on to where

766
00:40:46,980 --> 00:40:48,320
she is funny.

767
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,860
Cause that was on her request playlist as we were driving earlier today.

768
00:40:51,860 --> 00:40:52,860
Yeah.

769
00:40:52,860 --> 00:40:53,860
Yeah.

770
00:40:53,860 --> 00:40:54,860
Yeah.

771
00:40:54,860 --> 00:40:58,100
I almost made the joke to her about like Molly, I'm not sure.

772
00:40:58,100 --> 00:41:04,260
I'm not sure how I feel about you playing like your playlist consisting mostly of a

773
00:41:04,260 --> 00:41:07,400
person who just talks about their bad decisions all the time.

774
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,040
Now they're here.

775
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:10,360
They love her.

776
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,280
Yeah, yeah, whatever.

777
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:20,120
So, but Darren, have you felt, I'm, how have you navigated that?

778
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:27,200
Have you felt that tension of the trying to place yourself in the position and it's, you

779
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,220
know, it's a quote unquote girl thing or, or whatever, or have you just immediately

780
00:41:31,220 --> 00:41:32,220
said, go talk to your mother.

781
00:41:32,220 --> 00:41:36,240
I mean, that's cause that you free pass asked an answer.

782
00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:40,440
No, no, that's, it's interesting to me.

783
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,320
I almost have a harder time.

784
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:48,320
Well, I don't take, I take more time to try and understand them just because I don't,

785
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:52,840
I just, yeah, it's actually kind of an advantage for them because I'm sitting there trying

786
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,620
to figure this out how they're feeling about it.

787
00:41:55,620 --> 00:42:00,320
Whereas with, with boys, I have a, I feel like I know you have a perspective.

788
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,860
So I'm like, yeah, when you were talking about doing the end around, that's, that's all day.

789
00:42:03,860 --> 00:42:05,180
Like, yeah, no, I get it.

790
00:42:05,180 --> 00:42:06,180
I've been, yeah.

791
00:42:06,180 --> 00:42:07,180
Okay.

792
00:42:07,180 --> 00:42:08,280
Let's figure this out.

793
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,980
So it's almost like a, yeah.

794
00:42:10,980 --> 00:42:17,440
And I, and I, I think, yeah, for the girls, you know, I like to say they'll break your

795
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:24,600
heart and they'll melt your heart, you know, and they will absolutely just preparing, preparing

796
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:25,600
you.

797
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:26,600
Yeah.

798
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:33,400
And I, I almost feel, and for whatever reason I mean, of course I care about them equally,

799
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:38,840
but there's something different about when a girl breaks down and is struggling.

800
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,160
I don't know what it is for me.

801
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:42,640
It's just like, I just melt.

802
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:43,640
Yeah.

803
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,160
And with my sons, I'll be like, Hey, come on.

804
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:47,160
Yeah.

805
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:48,160
Yeah.

806
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:49,160
Like get some dirt on it.

807
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,160
If I get it together, we're going to be fine.

808
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:52,160
You know?

809
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:53,560
And that's a bias in myself.

810
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:54,560
I'm sure.

811
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:55,560
I share it too.

812
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:59,680
I had a conversation with my two oldest boys today about, about how their football injuries

813
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,240
in my opinion, they took too long to recover.

814
00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:04,960
They needed to get back out there sooner.

815
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:10,360
Like just, I will never say that to Molly probably ever, probably ever will.

816
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,920
I'd be like, listen, you need to, yeah, you need to rub some dirt on it.

817
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:14,920
Probably not.

818
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:15,920
Yeah.

819
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:16,920
That's, that's interesting.

820
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,680
Now do I, now do I understand them?

821
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:20,680
Probably not.

822
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:21,680
Yeah.

823
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,520
No, they probably, they probably agree, but it's, you know, I think.

824
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,080
I also want to model something for them.

825
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:33,520
I think that's part of it is I want to model something for them in who they should look

826
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,720
for in the future.

827
00:43:35,720 --> 00:43:39,280
I want them to find somebody who will sit down and listen and we'll hear.

828
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,240
I mean, I don't do this every time.

829
00:43:41,240 --> 00:43:42,240
Yeah.

830
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:43,240
Yeah.

831
00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:44,240
Right.

832
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:45,240
That would just be possible.

833
00:43:45,240 --> 00:43:50,120
But for the most part, if they really break down, I'll, Oh my gosh, that's my heartstrings.

834
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,040
And in shot girls, if you're listening, we just want to be very clear.

835
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:59,960
We don't think you're breaking down regularly to your father, but we're sure you're very,

836
00:43:59,960 --> 00:44:06,200
we know you're, it's just, it's just your dad.

837
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:10,720
It's just your dad feels, yeah, your dad feels a more immediate sense of like actually giving

838
00:44:10,720 --> 00:44:11,720
you time.

839
00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:12,720
I'm giving away secrets here.

840
00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:13,720
They don't know that.

841
00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:14,720
Yeah.

842
00:44:14,720 --> 00:44:15,720
Yeah.

843
00:44:15,720 --> 00:44:16,720
Yeah.

844
00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:17,720
Yeah.

845
00:44:17,720 --> 00:44:18,720
Well again, welcome behind the green curtain.

846
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:19,720
Yeah.

847
00:44:19,720 --> 00:44:20,720
Yeah.

848
00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:21,720
I, yeah, golly.

849
00:44:21,720 --> 00:44:23,600
I'm going to go ahead and, you know, that, that is, that is the case.

850
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:27,360
So this is, this was a little, just to tag the same, cause we always love a little bit

851
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:31,120
of social science and every, well, I never ever said sometimes there's zero science in

852
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:43,240
any of our so a frontier in frontiers in psychology magazine, October, 2022 issue did this whole,

853
00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:51,160
this whole study did a lengthy study on the development of empathy amongst teenagers.

854
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:56,240
So this was, and they studied the study was actually, I think 11 to it's like 11 to eight,

855
00:44:56,240 --> 00:44:59,000
18 year olds and then on into adulthood.

856
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,480
So this is the interesting thing that empathy.

857
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:08,440
So empathy begins to show up in kids somewhere around age four in their, in their development.

858
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:15,180
So some sense that they can identify through facial expressions and voice tone and things

859
00:45:15,180 --> 00:45:16,180
like that.

860
00:45:16,180 --> 00:45:22,580
They can identify how someone else is feeling and they're like, Oh, I, they make a connection

861
00:45:22,580 --> 00:45:23,580
with that to some degree.

862
00:45:23,580 --> 00:45:26,480
Again, that's kind of a really broad brush stroke.

863
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:33,680
So what was interesting about the study though, is it, it showed that empathy levels, I think

864
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,020
we're going to really identify with this.

865
00:45:36,020 --> 00:45:44,940
So empathy levels between the age of so they, their study, so I'll just say amongst males

866
00:45:44,940 --> 00:45:48,040
and this is the numbers are not going to really mean anything to you, but it'll help you for

867
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:49,040
scale.

868
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:56,080
So empathy level amongst boys, 11 to 12 was right at about a, we'll call it a, Oh gosh,

869
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:57,080
60.

870
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:04,340
It was at a 64 when they, when empathy levels amongst 13 to 14 year old boys plummeted down

871
00:46:04,340 --> 00:46:06,340
to 54.

872
00:46:06,340 --> 00:46:09,920
So they actually became less empathetic in those years.

873
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:16,680
And then it's a slow gradual uptick kind of 15 on through adulthood.

874
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:21,240
It's just kind of a gradual upward upward line in that, in that direction.

875
00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:22,720
And interesting.

876
00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:27,400
I think that there, and this, I think this ties into stage of life and kind of the self-focus

877
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:29,300
sort of thing.

878
00:46:29,300 --> 00:46:33,940
It might help some of our listeners to know this seems to be a natural kind of biological

879
00:46:33,940 --> 00:46:36,100
psych psychological process.

880
00:46:36,100 --> 00:46:43,220
So that if all of a sudden your kids feel like real, real, real selfish, little whatevers

881
00:46:43,220 --> 00:46:47,180
right around that early teenage year, this is, this is what happens.

882
00:46:47,180 --> 00:46:49,740
And I, I, it's funny at what I've noticed.

883
00:46:49,740 --> 00:46:54,100
I have to be really careful here cause I don't want to say anything that's going to pinpoint

884
00:46:54,100 --> 00:47:00,340
one child, but there is a child who is trying to, I think I remember, and some of this I

885
00:47:00,340 --> 00:47:05,420
do remember is trying to figure out what am I capable of?

886
00:47:05,420 --> 00:47:10,180
And I could see how that would entail not being really empathetic with other people

887
00:47:10,180 --> 00:47:15,580
because you're trying to figure out how much pain can I inflict on a human being or, you

888
00:47:15,580 --> 00:47:16,580
know, whatever.

889
00:47:16,580 --> 00:47:20,980
And I, and I would just like pushing that limit of like, yeah.

890
00:47:20,980 --> 00:47:25,340
And by the way, by the way, I think it's really absolutely necessary.

891
00:47:25,340 --> 00:47:27,700
This is a really, I don't know how controversial the statement is.

892
00:47:27,700 --> 00:47:28,700
I think it is.

893
00:47:28,700 --> 00:47:34,220
I think it is necessary in our development particularly as men to understand how capable

894
00:47:34,220 --> 00:47:38,740
we are of harming other people like and to, and to actually legitimately be capable of

895
00:47:38,740 --> 00:47:39,740
it.

896
00:47:39,740 --> 00:47:40,740
Sure.

897
00:47:40,740 --> 00:47:45,500
Cause, cause by the way, all your good deeds don't, don't matter Jack, if you weren't able

898
00:47:45,500 --> 00:47:48,460
to do something, the complete, the complete opposite, right?

899
00:47:48,460 --> 00:47:57,540
If you're just, if you're just a, a real lollygagger you know if you're not a, if you do not have

900
00:47:57,540 --> 00:48:03,260
the potential for serious harm to another person, then you being, you being kind or

901
00:48:03,260 --> 00:48:06,860
nice or whatever to a person isn't much of a accomplishment.

902
00:48:06,860 --> 00:48:11,260
But if you're like, if you're like a fierce dude and you, and you are gentle and loving

903
00:48:11,260 --> 00:48:15,020
and all of that, that's a whole, like that's a, that's a man, right?

904
00:48:15,020 --> 00:48:17,900
Like that is, you're choosing to be good at that point.

905
00:48:17,900 --> 00:48:18,900
You have, you have made a decision.

906
00:48:18,900 --> 00:48:20,700
So you're saying we should go out and be mean.

907
00:48:20,700 --> 00:48:21,700
I'm not.

908
00:48:21,700 --> 00:48:22,700
I'm not.

909
00:48:22,700 --> 00:48:23,700
Empathetically.

910
00:48:23,700 --> 00:48:24,700
I'm not.

911
00:48:24,700 --> 00:48:27,700
I think, I think we should be rate cash this and, and this is the danger.

912
00:48:27,700 --> 00:48:28,700
Yeah, yeah.

913
00:48:28,700 --> 00:48:29,700
This is the danger, right?

914
00:48:29,700 --> 00:48:32,380
This is where we say something that people are gonna take wrong.

915
00:48:32,380 --> 00:48:35,900
So is hardly ever controversial, but here, here it is.

916
00:48:35,900 --> 00:48:36,900
I, yes.

917
00:48:36,900 --> 00:48:40,340
So I think that process though is extremely valuable.

918
00:48:40,340 --> 00:48:41,340
Sure.

919
00:48:41,340 --> 00:48:42,340
Right.

920
00:48:42,340 --> 00:48:46,140
But again, recognizing like it is wrought with peril at that, you know, at every, at

921
00:48:46,140 --> 00:48:47,140
every level.

922
00:48:47,140 --> 00:48:49,100
So there's, there's the, there's the track for our boys.

923
00:48:49,100 --> 00:48:50,100
Okay.

924
00:48:50,100 --> 00:48:52,840
This, this is what they found in this, the study girls, surprise, surprise.

925
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:57,840
So they start at their, their watermark starts at a, at a higher degree of empathy to begin

926
00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:58,840
with.

927
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:04,380
So they started like a 64 girls started like a, well, they had them at like a, an, on average,

928
00:49:04,380 --> 00:49:06,900
almost a 70.

929
00:49:06,900 --> 00:49:16,300
Their empathy showed like went from like a 70 to a 71 between ages 12 and 13 and 13 and

930
00:49:16,300 --> 00:49:20,540
then did not decline their decline though.

931
00:49:20,540 --> 00:49:28,300
It was a decline was far less severe down like two points at, at ages 15 to 16.

932
00:49:28,300 --> 00:49:32,840
So they were delayed a couple of years in their, their, their downward and then basically

933
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:39,960
match the exact same trajectory as boys post post 16 like going, going into younger.

934
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:40,960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

935
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:41,960
There we go.

936
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:46,000
Always, always higher, but always higher.

937
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:49,820
Surprise surprise.

938
00:49:49,820 --> 00:49:54,920
So really what we are, I mean, while we are talking about both our girls and our boys

939
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:58,980
and raising them there, there's a difference here.

940
00:49:58,980 --> 00:50:01,120
There's a difference.

941
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:02,120
Which okay.

942
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:07,800
And we can just say this, it's very clear that our boys and our girls are wired differently

943
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:09,560
in this, in this area.

944
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:14,340
Like that's, I think that's a pretty apparent thing.

945
00:50:14,340 --> 00:50:19,800
But but at least, I don't know, sometimes when you just have this sense of like, oh,

946
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:25,740
there is a season where their ability to put themselves in other people's shoes does decrease

947
00:50:25,740 --> 00:50:30,360
a little bit and it has something to do with their, just their stage of development as

948
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,000
as an adolescent.

949
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:39,600
So so you take a deep breath, mom and dad, take a deep breath and just know that is,

950
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:43,320
that is par for the course in, in their life development.

951
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:48,600
Knowing that in general, if you don't, if something really traumatic doesn't happen

952
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:53,120
to them, the by and large, they will then begin as they will begin this upward trajectory

953
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:59,820
of developing that empathetic skill and hopefully developing a wider range of emotional intelligence

954
00:50:59,820 --> 00:51:06,600
and those all those categories as they get into young adulthood.

955
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:16,340
So if you so if you are as we are in that 14 to 16 year old range, we all have kiddos

956
00:51:16,340 --> 00:51:19,260
there.

957
00:51:19,260 --> 00:51:22,960
Just know that your work is worth it, but you're going to feel the pushback.

958
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:23,960
You're going to feel the pushback.

959
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:26,240
You're going to feel the tension.

960
00:51:26,240 --> 00:51:27,240
I do have a question.

961
00:51:27,240 --> 00:51:29,080
Yeah, you guys.

962
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:34,140
So I wonder if you were talking about how it can be difficult to empathize a little

963
00:51:34,140 --> 00:51:43,140
bit and thinking back, is there any fear that you have in empathizing and encouraging the

964
00:51:43,140 --> 00:51:44,140
wrong thing?

965
00:51:44,140 --> 00:51:45,140
Yeah.

966
00:51:45,140 --> 00:51:47,480
So because I think that's a rub.

967
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:48,480
Yeah.

968
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:49,480
Right.

969
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,600
You want to be careful not to empathize to the point where you're approving or encouraging

970
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:56,280
them because I need to remain and I need to remain the adult.

971
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:57,280
Yes.

972
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:58,280
Right.

973
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:04,840
There's there's the there's a real there's a real dark side of this.

974
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:09,720
And I I'm going to explain as I often do, like super hyperbolic, just to make the point.

975
00:52:09,720 --> 00:52:13,040
So I go hard one direction.

976
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:20,340
The parent that is kind of crawling up on the couch with their with their kiddo every

977
00:52:20,340 --> 00:52:23,700
time and just entering into their full meltdown.

978
00:52:23,700 --> 00:52:27,920
And I'm not and I'm not saying don't be loving and don't be sympathetic.

979
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:28,920
Right.

980
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:32,520
But who is actually taking on the persona of another young person.

981
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:39,520
So this is where you're not really being empathetic, but you're you're taking on this is the unhealthy,

982
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:43,640
which is what you were touching on with the with on the Stephen minister side things.

983
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:44,640
Yeah.

984
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:46,800
The we need ahead.

985
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:47,800
Yes.

986
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:54,000
I think we need ahead of time, a little bit of a guardrail or a like, okay, because because

987
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:58,640
I think when they see me as the adult entering kind of emotionally and mentally in the same

988
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:04,120
spot that they are, that is, that is kind of a cart that can be a carte blanche kind

989
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:06,680
of a license for immaturity.

990
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:11,560
Because, oh, oh, this trusted adult person is becoming less mature with me.

991
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:15,440
They're choosing to be less mature with me right along alongside me, whether that is

992
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:16,560
your intention or not.

993
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:19,800
That is that is, I think, by and large, how it is how it is perceived.

994
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:23,900
This is why side note.

995
00:53:23,900 --> 00:53:28,180
If you're if your kids are in youth group, and the reason that they like their youth

996
00:53:28,180 --> 00:53:37,860
pastor is because he acts like they do, red flag, red flag, or any any adult that is having

997
00:53:37,860 --> 00:53:41,180
that is having who is just the coolest.

998
00:53:41,180 --> 00:53:42,180
And why are they so cool?

999
00:53:42,180 --> 00:53:45,980
Well, you find out they're cool, because they're not emotionally challenging them at all.

1000
00:53:45,980 --> 00:53:51,140
And they're kind of right entering into their youth space as an adult.

1001
00:53:51,140 --> 00:53:53,300
That's that's not helpful for them either.

1002
00:53:53,300 --> 00:53:55,700
They they will like that in the immediate sense.

1003
00:53:55,700 --> 00:53:59,580
And they will look back on that later and be like, that was a missed opportunity.

1004
00:53:59,580 --> 00:54:04,740
So I think that's, that's the that's the one one dangerous side, because then the other

1005
00:54:04,740 --> 00:54:10,580
is what we've been talking about is a complete, like, complete dismissal of of their feelings,

1006
00:54:10,580 --> 00:54:12,300
complete dismissal of it.

1007
00:54:12,300 --> 00:54:14,400
Listen, this is not a big deal.

1008
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:16,580
You need you need to get it together.

1009
00:54:16,580 --> 00:54:20,900
You need to summon all of those emotional skills that are clearly not developed within

1010
00:54:20,900 --> 00:54:26,460
you yet, and you need to be an adult, get your emotional time machine and act 20 years

1011
00:54:26,460 --> 00:54:31,820
older and, and move and move on with that is the that's the other I think another unhealthy

1012
00:54:31,820 --> 00:54:32,820
side.

1013
00:54:32,820 --> 00:54:40,540
So the I just I don't want to be one of the I'm not.

1014
00:54:40,540 --> 00:54:42,900
I'm not one of the one of the dudes, right?

1015
00:54:42,900 --> 00:54:45,140
I'm not I'm not one of the these.

1016
00:54:45,140 --> 00:54:46,380
I'm not one of these.

1017
00:54:46,380 --> 00:54:47,380
I'm not a teenager.

1018
00:54:47,380 --> 00:54:48,380
I'm the dude.

1019
00:54:48,380 --> 00:54:49,380
Thank you.

1020
00:54:49,380 --> 00:54:50,380
Thank you.

1021
00:54:50,380 --> 00:54:51,380
Thank you.

1022
00:54:51,380 --> 00:54:53,380
So that's what you call me.

1023
00:54:53,380 --> 00:54:58,420
But yeah, I think those that I don't know that definitely an answer to the questions,

1024
00:54:58,420 --> 00:55:03,700
but that's that's what I'm I think in my interaction, I'm thinking of those tube polar opposites.

1025
00:55:03,700 --> 00:55:09,180
I'm thinking of the two digits, the ditches on either side of that and saying, boy, find

1026
00:55:09,180 --> 00:55:15,700
the road in between there as best as as best as possible.

1027
00:55:15,700 --> 00:55:20,220
And then and then surround yourself with people like hopefully that I have in my life who

1028
00:55:20,220 --> 00:55:25,700
are going through the same thing and can tell me if if I'm being an idiot or if like if

1029
00:55:25,700 --> 00:55:28,580
it's like, oh, my my approach is is reasonable.

1030
00:55:28,580 --> 00:55:33,120
And again, as we say again and again, I think we're talking about on this show, we're always

1031
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:36,420
talking about it kind of in a little bit of a vacuum apart from the reality.

1032
00:55:36,420 --> 00:55:43,380
Look, we all know like chances are good that I'm going to be required to be empathetic

1033
00:55:43,380 --> 00:55:48,300
with my child after I've had the longest day of the entire month.

1034
00:55:48,300 --> 00:55:51,660
And we have a ballgame to get to in 10 minutes.

1035
00:55:51,660 --> 00:55:58,100
And you know, oh, and oh, the gas tanks on E because we're taking your mom's car.

1036
00:55:58,100 --> 00:56:05,220
And that's a low gas gauge joke because my wife always gives me the say we have to acknowledge

1037
00:56:05,220 --> 00:56:06,220
that.

1038
00:56:06,220 --> 00:56:08,540
We just I'm just gonna be honest in my marriage.

1039
00:56:08,540 --> 00:56:09,540
That's usually my fault.

1040
00:56:09,540 --> 00:56:10,540
Is it the other way around?

1041
00:56:10,540 --> 00:56:11,540
Yeah.

1042
00:56:11,540 --> 00:56:12,540
OK.

1043
00:56:12,540 --> 00:56:13,540
OK.

1044
00:56:13,540 --> 00:56:14,540
Yeah.

1045
00:56:14,540 --> 00:56:15,540
It's me.

1046
00:56:15,540 --> 00:56:16,540
It's like Jake is like, why don't you take the van?

1047
00:56:16,540 --> 00:56:17,540
I was like, OK, no problem.

1048
00:56:17,540 --> 00:56:18,540
There's the light.

1049
00:56:18,540 --> 00:56:22,300
There's like, no, no.

1050
00:56:22,300 --> 00:56:28,100
So yes, our our our conversation here is obviously like, oh, this is the thing that we're striving

1051
00:56:28,100 --> 00:56:29,100
and moving toward.

1052
00:56:29,100 --> 00:56:33,620
However, it feels like so often.

1053
00:56:33,620 --> 00:56:37,660
I don't know about you guys, but these conversations are not held like, hey, we just finished dinner.

1054
00:56:37,660 --> 00:56:39,200
Get a little bit of time.

1055
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:40,200
Let's all sit down.

1056
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:41,860
Let's just have a talk.

1057
00:56:41,860 --> 00:56:43,540
How are things going?

1058
00:56:43,540 --> 00:56:44,860
Seems like you had a rough day.

1059
00:56:44,860 --> 00:56:45,860
Tell me about.

1060
00:56:45,860 --> 00:56:46,860
Yeah, that's.

1061
00:56:46,860 --> 00:56:53,060
I, I cannot think of the last time that that was really the scenario in which we had the

1062
00:56:53,060 --> 00:57:00,180
we had we had the conversation and and that is part that is part due to a boy that the

1063
00:57:00,180 --> 00:57:01,180
child.

1064
00:57:01,180 --> 00:57:04,300
For kiddos and.

1065
00:57:04,300 --> 00:57:09,180
A lot going on and they're they're involved in the things and they're trying to be social

1066
00:57:09,180 --> 00:57:13,620
and we're trying to we're trying to urge that, encourage that and all that.

1067
00:57:13,620 --> 00:57:17,380
I mean, we'll have time and space for.

1068
00:57:17,380 --> 00:57:22,460
Oh, needed needed conversations for sure.

1069
00:57:22,460 --> 00:57:25,540
And now it's time for the dudes and dads pop quiz.

1070
00:57:25,540 --> 00:57:28,060
Ray, did you recently record that?

1071
00:57:28,060 --> 00:57:29,060
Not recently.

1072
00:57:29,060 --> 00:57:30,740
That feels like it was.

1073
00:57:30,740 --> 00:57:35,140
It's newer than the one newer than the one we had originally.

1074
00:57:35,140 --> 00:57:36,740
It's been a while.

1075
00:57:36,740 --> 00:57:42,380
We should we should we should all get them in because because all their voices have changed.

1076
00:57:42,380 --> 00:57:44,100
OK, time to do.

1077
00:57:44,100 --> 00:57:45,100
Wrong one.

1078
00:57:45,100 --> 00:57:46,100
Oh, that's not one of our kids.

1079
00:57:46,100 --> 00:57:47,100
I was thinking this one.

1080
00:57:47,100 --> 00:57:48,100
Let's be in.

1081
00:57:48,100 --> 00:57:50,100
Let's be in.

1082
00:57:50,100 --> 00:57:51,420
That's an old one, but that's how they went to.

1083
00:57:51,420 --> 00:57:52,420
Thank you, honey.

1084
00:57:52,420 --> 00:57:55,020
May get one where they're where the voice cracks.

1085
00:57:55,020 --> 00:57:56,020
That's right.

1086
00:57:56,020 --> 00:57:57,020
At some point.

1087
00:57:57,020 --> 00:57:58,140
Yeah, that's that's got to be out there.

1088
00:57:58,140 --> 00:57:59,140
I hope so.

1089
00:57:59,140 --> 00:58:00,140
That's all right.

1090
00:58:00,140 --> 00:58:05,540
So if you've never joined us, the pop quiz is just when we pepper Darren with questions

1091
00:58:05,540 --> 00:58:07,420
that have nothing to do with empathy.

1092
00:58:07,420 --> 00:58:11,020
Yeah, I may be feeling some empathy for him at the end of this.

1093
00:58:11,020 --> 00:58:12,020
Nice.

1094
00:58:12,020 --> 00:58:13,020
Yeah, good.

1095
00:58:13,020 --> 00:58:14,020
Are you ready, Joel?

1096
00:58:14,020 --> 00:58:15,020
I'm ready.

1097
00:58:15,020 --> 00:58:16,020
Go ahead and ask your first one.

1098
00:58:16,020 --> 00:58:20,980
OK, Darren, of of your six family members.

1099
00:58:20,980 --> 00:58:25,940
Who is most likely to survive the longest come the zombie apocalypse?

1100
00:58:25,940 --> 00:58:31,300
There's a lot to take into consideration.

1101
00:58:31,300 --> 00:58:32,660
My oldest daughter.

1102
00:58:32,660 --> 00:58:33,660
Yes.

1103
00:58:33,660 --> 00:58:34,660
OK.

1104
00:58:34,660 --> 00:58:35,660
And why?

1105
00:58:35,660 --> 00:58:37,100
Oh, she's so calculated.

1106
00:58:37,100 --> 00:58:39,380
Oh, oh, oh, oh.

1107
00:58:39,380 --> 00:58:41,000
She is very methodical.

1108
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:42,000
She's very well.

1109
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:43,580
She's three steps ahead of everyone.

1110
00:58:43,580 --> 00:58:44,580
Nice.

1111
00:58:44,580 --> 00:58:45,580
Nice.

1112
00:58:45,580 --> 00:58:46,580
So she will.

1113
00:58:46,580 --> 00:58:47,580
So congratulations.

1114
00:58:47,580 --> 00:58:48,580
Congratulations.

1115
00:58:48,580 --> 00:58:49,580
Joeline would just want it over with.

1116
00:58:49,580 --> 00:58:50,580
She would just.

1117
00:58:50,580 --> 00:58:52,580
We've had this conversation.

1118
00:58:52,580 --> 00:58:55,060
No joke.

1119
00:58:55,060 --> 00:58:56,380
We've had this conversation.

1120
00:58:56,380 --> 00:58:58,460
I, I wouldn't.

1121
00:58:58,460 --> 00:58:59,900
So I've always had this thought.

1122
00:58:59,900 --> 00:59:02,060
Like if you're if you are stockpiled.

1123
00:59:02,060 --> 00:59:03,060
Yes.

1124
00:59:03,060 --> 00:59:05,140
And you think you're going to survive a zombie apocalypse.

1125
00:59:05,140 --> 00:59:07,700
You've got to be prepared to kill somebody else.

1126
00:59:07,700 --> 00:59:08,700
Right.

1127
00:59:08,700 --> 00:59:09,700
Sorry, we're getting a little.

1128
00:59:09,700 --> 00:59:10,700
Yeah.

1129
00:59:10,700 --> 00:59:13,640
But you got to be able to do things that nobody else like that.

1130
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:14,640
That's correct.

1131
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:15,640
Are not willing.

1132
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:16,640
That is absolutely correct.

1133
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:17,640
I am not willing to do that.

1134
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:18,640
Yeah.

1135
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:19,640
And neither is Joanna.

1136
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:20,640
Yeah.

1137
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:21,640
So we were actually my oldest is.

1138
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:24,800
But hopefully you've raised children that are willing to do.

1139
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:29,440
We were actually just talking about something similar, not as a zombie apocalypse, but we

1140
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:34,860
were watching Survivor before I came over and both Julie and I said, I just couldn't

1141
00:59:34,860 --> 00:59:35,860
do this.

1142
00:59:35,860 --> 00:59:36,860
Like, yeah, I could.

1143
00:59:36,860 --> 00:59:40,160
I could probably do the physical challenge, but the like calculated lying and mental like

1144
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:41,160
that.

1145
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:42,160
Yeah, that like that.

1146
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:43,160
We just couldn't do it.

1147
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:44,160
Yeah, it's hard.

1148
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:45,160
It's hard.

1149
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:46,160
I get it.

1150
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:47,160
OK, and you go for it.

1151
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:49,160
All right, Darren, what's your favorite gadget?

1152
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:52,320
Oh, man.

1153
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:54,600
I have a I just got this recently.

1154
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:59,480
I have it's kind of a love hate relationship with this new alarm clock.

1155
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:00,480
Oh, yeah.

1156
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:01,480
OK.

1157
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:04,920
And it turns on light and it starts with light.

1158
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:08,760
And so your body kind of reacts to the light before you hear that noise that.

1159
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:09,760
Yes.

1160
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:13,000
And I you know, I thought it was going to be this thing that I was going to like, oh,

1161
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:16,600
I'm going to wake up so refreshed and ready to go because it's light.

1162
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:17,600
It's the same feeling.

1163
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:21,800
I still hit this news every time.

1164
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:25,360
Snus is hit three times, whether it's that or just a regular alarm.

1165
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:27,320
But I do appreciate it.

1166
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:28,320
Nice.

1167
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:34,400
Darren, what book apart from the Bible, I have to say, what book should Andy and I be

1168
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:36,400
reading right now?

1169
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:37,720
Oh.

1170
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:39,920
Man.

1171
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:43,880
I'm so something that I've gotten back into is fasting.

1172
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:44,880
You talked about this.

1173
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:45,880
Yeah.

1174
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:48,320
And I started reading God's chosen fast.

1175
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:49,320
Oh.

1176
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:53,560
And there's so I always thought this was pretty straightforward.

1177
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:55,480
Like you just don't eat.

1178
01:00:55,480 --> 01:01:02,400
But there's there's like layers to this, that this book does a fantastic job of opening

1179
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:03,400
up.

1180
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:04,400
That's what I'm reading right now anyway.

1181
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:11,080
So amongst other things, but to help to help you to substantiate your choices not to eat

1182
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:13,960
is that like you're like you're like you needed some backup on this.

1183
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:17,840
You're like, I'm going to do this, but I need I need something to tell me that this is OK.

1184
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,360
I honestly I need a little more depth to it.

1185
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:21,360
Perfect.

1186
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:22,360
Yeah.

1187
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:23,360
I mean, it's kind of makes it a little more interesting.

1188
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:24,360
Yeah.

1189
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:25,360
Look for.

1190
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:26,360
Yeah.

1191
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:27,360
Because otherwise it's an opportunity for sure.

1192
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:28,360
It is.

1193
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:29,360
That's great.

1194
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:30,360
All right.

1195
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:33,840
If you had someone following you around all day, not in a creepy way.

1196
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:35,120
What would you have them do?

1197
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:40,480
So they're like, just they're like an assistant, like a personal assistant, just follows you

1198
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:41,480
around.

1199
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:42,480
Got it.

1200
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:48,120
I think I would I think they would have to laugh at my jokes because, you know, nobody

1201
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:49,120
else is.

1202
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:50,120
I'd have to.

1203
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:51,120
I'm so sorry.

1204
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:52,120
I'm so sorry.

1205
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:54,040
I feel that I empathize with that.

1206
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:58,120
I tell every day that my kids don't laugh at and they are fantastic jokes.

1207
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:01,120
They are quality.

1208
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:03,460
Such a waste.

1209
01:02:03,460 --> 01:02:05,240
Matthew, my 11 year old.

1210
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:11,840
No, that it seemed like a really weird joke for him to tell me, but he's like, suddenly

1211
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,840
goes, dad, do you know?

1212
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:16,840
He goes, dad, do you know why?

1213
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:19,320
Do you know why white girls can't count to eight?

1214
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:20,320
Oh no.

1215
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:21,320
I was like, what?

1216
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:22,320
No.

1217
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:23,320
He's like, cause they can't even.

1218
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:24,320
And then I died.

1219
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:25,320
I died laughing.

1220
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:26,320
I died laughing.

1221
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:32,600
And I was like, and then I did a little, I'm like a little inventory and I'm like, now

1222
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:35,060
did I die laughing at that?

1223
01:02:35,060 --> 01:02:37,220
Because the joke itself was all that funny.

1224
01:02:37,220 --> 01:02:42,940
No, I died laughing because he was the one that was saying that was the one really funny.

1225
01:02:42,940 --> 01:02:46,620
I would not expect him to exactly totally caught me off guard.

1226
01:02:46,620 --> 01:02:55,620
My final question would be Darren, what is the, what's, what's the tastiest thing that

1227
01:02:55,620 --> 01:02:58,240
you have eaten within the last month?

1228
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:02,440
Oh, let's hope his wife made it.

1229
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:03,440
Let's see.

1230
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:04,440
It was.

1231
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:05,440
Okay, good.

1232
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:06,440
Oh good.

1233
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:07,440
So, so, so glad.

1234
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:12,100
She's, you know, I don't know if you know this, we, we went plant based about five years

1235
01:03:12,100 --> 01:03:16,880
ago, which makes this, I'm sorry.

1236
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:18,880
I'm not going to be invited back.

1237
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:23,760
I was already saying, just draw the line through it.

1238
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:26,120
No, you won't be invited to our, our summer cookout.

1239
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:27,120
Okay.

1240
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:28,120
You went plant based.

1241
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:29,120
Cookouts are a challenge.

1242
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:30,120
I will say that.

1243
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:33,400
You gotta be those people, you know, we brought our own vegan burger.

1244
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:34,400
Yeah.

1245
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:35,400
Yeah.

1246
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:36,400
We might've eaten a meal before we showed up.

1247
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:37,400
Yeah.

1248
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:38,400
Yeah.

1249
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:39,400
Yeah.

1250
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:40,400
Okay.

1251
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:41,400
So you went plant based.

1252
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:42,400
Got it.

1253
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:43,400
Yeah.

1254
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:44,400
So all that judgment aside, it was for health reasons.

1255
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:45,400
It's it's yeah.

1256
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:48,000
I'm sure that whatever you did was a wise calculated decision.

1257
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:49,000
We're not here.

1258
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:52,040
We're not here to, I mean, I've got empathy for you.

1259
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:54,420
Gosh, so much empathy.

1260
01:03:54,420 --> 01:03:56,400
You're about the only one everybody else.

1261
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:57,400
Like why would you?

1262
01:03:57,400 --> 01:03:58,400
But yes.

1263
01:03:58,400 --> 01:03:59,400
Uh huh.

1264
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:06,120
So she makes a, it's a tofu, lettuce and tomato sandwich.

1265
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:07,120
That is fantastic.

1266
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:08,120
Okay.

1267
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:10,840
So the, the key is the soy sauce.

1268
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:11,840
Ah, yes.

1269
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:12,840
Gotcha.

1270
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:15,520
So you make like a nice Patty of tofu.

1271
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:19,880
It's a little burnt and you're looking at it.

1272
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:21,480
I want to believe Jolene.

1273
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:22,480
I want to believe this.

1274
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:23,480
I really, really do.

1275
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:24,840
I want to believe this.

1276
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:29,320
I want to, I, cause I, I'm picking up on his sincerity and earnestness and all of this.

1277
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:31,120
Totally, totally sincere.

1278
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:34,040
I think he really legitimately believes that.

1279
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:39,520
Um, and because you guys have not always been plant based, so I know that you have a memory

1280
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:43,280
of what, what eating actual meat tastes like.

1281
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:45,280
So okay.

1282
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:46,280
You know what?

1283
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:47,280
I'm here for the ribbing.

1284
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:48,280
It's totally, no, no.

1285
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:50,860
I'm uh, here's, here's the funny thing.

1286
01:04:50,860 --> 01:04:54,760
And this is, well, I'll, I'll say this one thing and then, and this is the only serious

1287
01:04:54,760 --> 01:05:01,120
thing I'll say about it is when you can't use me, you have to be really creative with

1288
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:02,120
your food.

1289
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:06,480
Cause, and so some of the best food I've had has been on the plant based world.

1290
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:07,480
Yeah.

1291
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:12,340
And I would say just, gosh, I even, I hesitate to say this.

1292
01:05:12,340 --> 01:05:17,760
There was a time in my life where I don't know how to say this in a way that is not

1293
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:20,600
gonna, my wife is going to jump all over me for this.

1294
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:28,300
And so I want to say there was a time in my life when I had relationships with individuals

1295
01:05:28,300 --> 01:05:32,120
that were, that were like, be like, we're had vegan diets.

1296
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:33,120
Okay.

1297
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:39,160
And I ate what they ate predominantly and I will, and I will, and I will sit like at

1298
01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:42,840
their main meals or whatever when I was like visiting with them or whatever.

1299
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:46,200
And I will say it was delicious.

1300
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:49,620
Like there were, there were flavor profiles and things like that that I had never tasted

1301
01:05:49,620 --> 01:05:52,380
before that were, that were really, really good.

1302
01:05:52,380 --> 01:05:55,360
The problem was I was, I was hungry 30 minutes later.

1303
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:56,960
So you do have to eat way more.

1304
01:05:56,960 --> 01:05:58,440
That's what a lot of people, yeah.

1305
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:02,200
A lot of people make the mistake of one, they don't eat enough.

1306
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:07,080
And two, they're, they just aren't, you have, it takes time to get used to some of the foods.

1307
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:08,080
Black beans.

1308
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:12,100
Everybody needs time to get used to black beans.

1309
01:06:12,100 --> 01:06:13,100
That's a quote.

1310
01:06:13,100 --> 01:06:14,100
That's a quote.

1311
01:06:14,100 --> 01:06:16,280
Everyone, everyone, give it a couple of weeks.

1312
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:17,280
Just give it, give it time.

1313
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:18,280
Give it time.

1314
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:19,280
Okay.

1315
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:22,280
Darren, you successfully, I think you successfully fast.

1316
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:23,280
Yes, he did.

1317
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:24,280
We did.

1318
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:25,280
It's okay.

1319
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:26,280
Yeah.

1320
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:28,280
Thanks for coming on today and talking about it.

1321
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:29,280
Darren.

1322
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:30,960
This is so much fun.

1323
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:31,960
We hope so.

1324
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:32,960
I have so much fun here.

1325
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:33,960
I'm so glad.

1326
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:34,960
You'll probably be invited back.

1327
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:35,960
Even if you're plant-based.

1328
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:36,960
It will probably be.

1329
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:38,440
It was touch and go there for a second.

1330
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:39,440
Yeah.

1331
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:40,440
Should we have a food episode?

1332
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:42,560
We can do a live cooking show.

1333
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:43,560
Shug your face.

1334
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:45,160
That's an awesome idea.

1335
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:48,080
I will bring, no, I will bring, I will bring in food.

1336
01:06:48,080 --> 01:06:50,040
I'll be like, Hey, you need to try this.

1337
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:52,680
Let's work on it.

1338
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:55,080
This is our Christmas episode.

1339
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:56,200
Can we do a Chris V?

1340
01:06:56,200 --> 01:07:01,880
Like, can we do like a plant-based, a plant-based holiday cooking episode?

1341
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:02,880
Oh, I'm here for that.

1342
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:03,880
Okay.

1343
01:07:03,880 --> 01:07:04,880
We're going to work on it.

1344
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:05,880
I like it.

1345
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:06,880
I'm excited.

1346
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:08,880
I can't believe I'm excited about something like that.

1347
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:09,880
Okay.

1348
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:15,720
Hey friends, as always can head over to dudesanddads.com to check out all current and previous episodes

1349
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:16,720
and future.

1350
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:17,720
In the future episodes?

1351
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:18,720
Sure.

1352
01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:19,720
There's a time machine over there, Andy.

1353
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:20,720
Also dudesanddadspodcast@gmail.com.

1354
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:26,400
If you got any future show ideas for us, want to reach out to us, any of that good stuff,

1355
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:29,440
our voicemail is 5 7 4 2 1 3 8 7 0 2.

1356
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:32,920
You can call that and leave a voicemail at any time.

1357
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:34,640
You might wake up, but not me.

1358
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:35,640
No guys.

1359
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:38,280
We're just so grateful to have you on this journey.

1360
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:39,600
Thanks for hanging out with us.

1361
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:43,000
And as always, we wish you grace and peace.