1 00:00:00,028 --> 00:00:01,228 Carlos: Oh, look at that. 2 00:00:01,337 --> 00:00:01,427 Alex-Louise: da. 3 00:00:02,447 --> 00:00:02,927 Ben: I've got a question. 4 00:00:03,887 --> 00:00:04,457 Carlos: Yes. 5 00:00:04,535 --> 00:00:05,585 What time does it start? 6 00:00:07,446 --> 00:00:13,506 Ben: No, the question is, do I have to press save my spot or just stare at it like I have? 7 00:00:18,466 --> 00:00:26,356 Carlos: So, uh, I, I got to know Alex Louise through a sister community of the Happy Startup School to like, called like-hearted leaders run by Claire Perry Louise. 8 00:00:26,386 --> 00:00:31,576 Um, and through know, getting to know her, getting to know her work and also her. 9 00:00:32,041 --> 00:00:44,762 Joining us at summer camp last year, uh, it became clear that there's many gifts that she could share, particularly around some of the practical as well as the emotional aspects of money. 10 00:00:45,267 --> 00:00:50,877 we're hoping, well, we are hoping we, she is joining us at summer camp to run a workshop this year. 11 00:00:51,417 --> 00:00:58,317 And, uh, a playful title that I had in my head was this idea of, uh, retirement plans for Wizards. 12 00:00:58,857 --> 00:01:01,767 Uh, and what, why that SPR to mind was. 13 00:01:02,247 --> 00:01:17,101 There are many people in our community and I I've met who have very magical gifts, particularly around Krenn clarity, giving people a real sense of purpose and meaning, uh, all very internal stuff. 14 00:01:17,551 --> 00:01:19,891 Uh, very, some amazing healers. 15 00:01:20,231 --> 00:01:23,079 quite, I would say, woo woo in nature. 16 00:01:23,574 --> 00:01:28,464 Which is very valuable, but doesn't necessarily, isn't necessarily compatible with the capitalist system. 17 00:01:28,828 --> 00:01:37,874 and sometimes the relationship to money is of a certain sense where we're not always looking to the future and planning, you know, very meticulously about that. 18 00:01:38,534 --> 00:01:42,764 Uh, and I remember reading a blog post a few years ago, which was called Retirement Plans. 19 00:01:42,794 --> 00:01:44,204 There's No Retirement Plan for Wizards. 20 00:01:44,534 --> 00:01:59,534 And it talked about this guy who's a herbal healer and essentially he got ill in his old age and he had no money to look after himself and they were trying to do a crowdfunding campaign to support him, which made me think, oh, this dichotomy between like being present, 21 00:01:59,984 --> 00:02:08,024 accepting uncertainty, going with the flow, and then this thing of actually in the future we wanna look after ourselves somehow. 22 00:02:08,024 --> 00:02:09,974 And, and so it got me thinking around that. 23 00:02:11,144 --> 00:02:11,894 And this then. 24 00:02:12,509 --> 00:02:16,679 With your book and this idea of financial freedom, I was just curious to explore this idea. 25 00:02:17,062 --> 00:02:29,152 So what, why don't we start off first by sharing a little for you, Alex, just share a little bit more about you, uh, the work you do now, who you like to work with, and why you find it's, you know, why you're passionate about it. 26 00:02:29,566 --> 00:02:33,949 Alex-Louise: Um, I'll give you a really quick story of my journey, which then what people can, it'll make sense. 27 00:02:33,949 --> 00:02:35,779 So I left school at 15. 28 00:02:36,121 --> 00:02:38,761 I had a very turbulent relationship with my dad. 29 00:02:38,761 --> 00:02:51,211 I left home, left school at 15, started working as a career and a as a chef, um, and complete, you know, kind of went off the rails, but actually had a work addiction, which stopped me from the drug, alcohol, cigarette addiction. 30 00:02:51,211 --> 00:02:53,401 It, it transformed into work addiction as a chef. 31 00:02:53,851 --> 00:03:01,307 And so I did a lot of, you know, I worked really hard for not a lot of money, in a very, what was ultimately creative in the kitchens I was working in. 32 00:03:01,967 --> 00:03:10,877 And I was determined that I wouldn't go through what my parents went through, which was, they lost pretty much everything when I was about 10, 11. 33 00:03:11,477 --> 00:03:13,967 And we'd had a very nice childhood. 34 00:03:13,967 --> 00:03:16,037 I was born in Zimbabwe, lived in Switzerland. 35 00:03:16,037 --> 00:03:18,527 You know, we'd had international salaries, all of that world. 36 00:03:18,527 --> 00:03:20,027 So to go from that to. 37 00:03:20,807 --> 00:03:22,337 House is gonna be repossessed. 38 00:03:22,367 --> 00:03:23,387 We've got zero money. 39 00:03:23,387 --> 00:03:28,277 You know, we went from private school to moving to Wales to to uh, you know, inner city, Cardiff school. 40 00:03:28,757 --> 00:03:39,107 And I went through that early teenage years, then had a turbulent relationship with my father left home, went into catering and I swore that I would never be in that financial situation again 'cause it was horrific. 41 00:03:39,647 --> 00:03:48,167 And so I started buying houses when I was 22 on the, uh, borrowing money, but also, you know, everything I earned, I, I put into that. 42 00:03:48,887 --> 00:03:55,965 And by the time I was 32, I was financially free, which sounds really glamorous, you know, it's like, who would not want that? 43 00:03:56,595 --> 00:04:00,525 The reality was at 32 I got divorced. 44 00:04:00,615 --> 00:04:02,445 My brother died in a cycling accident. 45 00:04:02,475 --> 00:04:04,965 My life was an absolute proverbial car crash. 46 00:04:05,355 --> 00:04:06,555 Uh, and I was fucking miserable. 47 00:04:06,582 --> 00:04:08,322 And it was a really conflicting time. 48 00:04:08,352 --> 00:04:10,572 'cause everyone else is going, wow, you never have to work again. 49 00:04:10,902 --> 00:04:11,922 That's amazing. 50 00:04:12,042 --> 00:04:15,222 And I'm going, no, look at the wreckage of my life. 51 00:04:15,312 --> 00:04:16,392 It's not amazing. 52 00:04:17,022 --> 00:04:25,692 Um, so I then went, so I'm 43 in July, and so I've had another decade of a journey of, well, if the money doesn't do it right. 53 00:04:25,692 --> 00:04:32,502 So I spent all my time focusing on get the money right, what at, at the expense of everything else, my marriage, the whole lot. 54 00:04:32,962 --> 00:04:37,012 So I went on then a journey of, well, what is it that's gonna make me happy? 55 00:04:37,522 --> 00:04:38,842 So I started trying all different things. 56 00:04:38,842 --> 00:04:39,922 I carried on doing property. 57 00:04:39,922 --> 00:04:44,932 I've, I've always, you know, bought refurbed, done up properties and. 58 00:04:45,129 --> 00:04:47,529 I started to understand what would make me happy. 59 00:04:47,799 --> 00:04:52,569 That was getting a spring, a spaniel dog and going for long walks that was growing vegetables in my garden. 60 00:04:52,569 --> 00:04:53,919 That's going horse riding. 61 00:04:54,189 --> 00:04:59,109 That's actually spending meaningful time with friends and family and that makes a difference. 62 00:04:59,559 --> 00:05:11,709 And so what, what happened then was people start, I was doing supper clubs and I was teaching people to cook and because I was still passionate about catering and food and health, and I'm very, very passionate about this. 63 00:05:11,889 --> 00:05:12,519 This is the other thing. 64 00:05:12,519 --> 00:05:14,889 There's no point in getting rich if you're sick 'cause forget it. 65 00:05:14,919 --> 00:05:15,849 Like what are you gonna do? 66 00:05:16,329 --> 00:05:23,319 So I was teaching people to cook, working with Riverford, the food box company, and it still wasn't right. 67 00:05:23,319 --> 00:05:26,499 And we were sitting down to eat the meals and people were asking me about money. 68 00:05:26,829 --> 00:05:31,509 So basically what happened then was a kind of natural progression into people started asking me for help. 69 00:05:32,109 --> 00:05:36,129 So I started coaching people and just looking at what we were doing. 70 00:05:36,159 --> 00:05:38,229 I've spent a long time in. 71 00:05:38,787 --> 00:05:41,127 Personal development and having, you know, being coached. 72 00:05:41,127 --> 00:05:44,037 My, my area of weakness was intimate relationships. 73 00:05:44,037 --> 00:05:46,647 I've had 20 years of car crashes of relationships. 74 00:05:46,647 --> 00:05:50,667 I'm now happily married with two children, and finally it's all come together. 75 00:05:50,667 --> 00:05:52,407 But there was 20 years of, you know, pain. 76 00:05:52,407 --> 00:05:54,567 So people look at me and go, oh yeah, you've got your money sorted. 77 00:05:54,567 --> 00:05:58,767 And I'm like, yeah, my pain area was in the other, you know, I'd say difficult one. 78 00:05:59,157 --> 00:06:05,247 And I think the thing for me is that people chase money, but they forget everything else. 79 00:06:05,757 --> 00:06:15,449 And the thing that I'm really passionate about, and it's why I wrote the book, and it's why I work with people, is that you can get rich, but if you've got nothing else, your life's gonna be pretty empty and meaningless. 80 00:06:15,449 --> 00:06:23,279 And we all know the proverbial, you know, rich, wealthy, miserable person, like they exist in, in, in a, in a lot of forms. 81 00:06:23,549 --> 00:06:35,494 so my passion now is yes, I help people with the mechanics of money and there are things to put in place, but actually what we really need to do is we know we need to understand who we are and what we want. 82 00:06:36,154 --> 00:06:41,134 If we understand that and then we link the money in, then it's gold, literal gold. 83 00:06:41,584 --> 00:06:45,286 But if we don't do both pieces of work, it's, it's broken either way. 84 00:06:45,286 --> 00:06:55,066 So the, you started off the podcast saying the guy who was a healer, who was amazing, but when he got sick and he hadn't sorted himself out, financially came over, it's the same thing. 85 00:06:55,066 --> 00:06:57,976 You can't just follow your passion and ignore finance. 86 00:06:57,976 --> 00:07:01,876 You just can't in this world unless you are prepared to class. 87 00:07:01,876 --> 00:07:07,366 If you are in the uk, our government as the safety net, and us as you know, us being the government, there's no us and them. 88 00:07:07,576 --> 00:07:15,046 If you are happy with the safety net that is, you know, the system that we have, and you are okay to live on that as your safety net, that's fine. 89 00:07:15,046 --> 00:07:22,096 But if you're not, you have to put something in place because otherwise you can't, you can't serve people and they can't serve you. 90 00:07:22,496 --> 00:07:39,386 And the other thing that I think that I wanna say that's really important for anyone who's underearning is that if we do not have fair exchange in value in business, especially coaches, healers, artists creative, if we don't get paid fair value for what we give out, that actually makes us sick. 91 00:07:39,746 --> 00:07:44,666 So it's a recipe for actually creating the very disaster that we started off talking. 92 00:07:44,906 --> 00:07:48,296 So it's one of these stories where you can't, you've gotta do both. 93 00:07:48,476 --> 00:07:51,146 And if you ignore one, it's at your peril either way. 94 00:07:51,445 --> 00:07:55,105 Ben: There's loads in what you were saying there, which obviously is, is kind of really, really resonant. 95 00:07:55,255 --> 00:08:00,805 Have, have you, um, you familiar with, is it, uh, Peter, Peter Kerig, the 30 Lies About Money? 96 00:08:00,985 --> 00:08:01,556 Are you familiar with that book? 97 00:08:01,590 --> 00:08:02,330 Alex-Louise: No, I'm not. 98 00:08:02,988 --> 00:08:05,748 Ben: But it, so I was kind of reminded in the stories that you were telling there. 99 00:08:05,748 --> 00:08:08,958 I was reminded of that, of, of kind of his writing in there. 100 00:08:08,958 --> 00:08:16,998 'cause he, he starts that book with a sort of bit of a provocation, which is, you know, sort of write on a postcard what money sort of means for you. 101 00:08:17,508 --> 00:08:17,628 Yeah. 102 00:08:17,633 --> 00:08:22,938 And uh, it's, you know, the invitation is, oh, it means security, it means freedom, it means all of these sorts of things. 103 00:08:23,208 --> 00:08:30,378 And sort of takes through a whole, uh, a whole kind of, sort of sequence of kind of writing, which is sort of explaining a, what money is and all of these things. 104 00:08:30,378 --> 00:08:37,733 But the kind of punchline, if it was a, if it was a joke, is the idea of course, that essentially all we're really doing is we're projecting all of these things onto money. 105 00:08:37,738 --> 00:08:38,028 Money, yeah. 106 00:08:38,448 --> 00:08:44,538 Uh, and so the idea that the money is the security or the money is the freedom, of course it's not, it's just the thing that we're kind of projecting on. 107 00:08:44,538 --> 00:08:49,818 And a lot of what you were talking about there, uh, kind of feels like it's, it's kind of born of a similar spirit. 108 00:08:50,098 --> 00:08:50,488 Alex-Louise: Yeah, yeah. 109 00:08:50,488 --> 00:08:51,088 Absolutely. 110 00:08:51,268 --> 00:08:52,283 And I think the other thing is that. 111 00:08:52,892 --> 00:08:58,922 Anyone that's got any, any visceral reaction to money, that's where the work is. 112 00:08:58,922 --> 00:09:01,082 It's not like the money's in earth doesn't do anything. 113 00:09:01,082 --> 00:09:03,452 The money just magnifies who we already are. 114 00:09:03,512 --> 00:09:06,782 And I think that's what we also miss, is we think that money's this thing that does stuff. 115 00:09:06,782 --> 00:09:08,102 It's like just a measure. 116 00:09:08,102 --> 00:09:08,192 Mm-Hmm. 117 00:09:08,432 --> 00:09:08,852 Who is that? 118 00:09:09,243 --> 00:09:12,003 Carlos: there's so many different ways we can go on this. 119 00:09:12,213 --> 00:09:20,272 Uh, and from my reading of your book, I got the impression of this kind of journey from the inside out, and I think you were alluding to it. 120 00:09:20,272 --> 00:09:23,482 There is like this, your own stuff and there's the money stuff. 121 00:09:24,487 --> 00:09:31,597 So whether that is inside out, there's the approach of like, let's do the money stuff and then I'll sort myself out and then that doesn't necessarily work. 122 00:09:31,927 --> 00:09:35,107 And then this is another thing here, like how can you do it in parallel? 123 00:09:35,737 --> 00:09:41,377 Um, so on one hand, my guess is many people here 'cause they wanna know about the mechanics, is like, how do I do this? 124 00:09:41,377 --> 00:09:43,447 How do I get, you know, financially free? 125 00:09:43,447 --> 00:09:44,977 What are the things I need to think about? 126 00:09:44,977 --> 00:09:45,007 Mm. 127 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:51,820 and then there's the, what I would say the more foundational, important stuff is like why and what does that mean? 128 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:52,600 Ben: Yeah. 129 00:09:52,690 --> 00:10:07,964 Carlos: So what I thought we could do, just to keep people um, hooked is let's start off with, some simple principles, let's say around just making sure that you have enough in the future. 130 00:10:08,323 --> 00:10:11,413 And then we can talk about how you do that. 131 00:10:12,463 --> 00:10:14,473 From a motivational perspective. 132 00:10:14,503 --> 00:10:21,553 'cause there's this section on your book about savings and different ways to save and how one way of saving isn't really gonna help as much as another way. 133 00:10:21,553 --> 00:10:28,573 So maybe, I dunno if, if there's a, some kind of overview about the mechanics that you could help. 134 00:10:28,573 --> 00:10:29,083 'cause you could share. 135 00:10:29,525 --> 00:10:30,065 Alex-Louise: Absolutely. 136 00:10:30,065 --> 00:10:41,555 And I will caveat it before saying that we all know we need to drink water, exercise, eat well, and it makes no difference until we have something to link it to. 137 00:10:41,555 --> 00:10:47,975 So I will say that everything I'm about to say will make about as much difference as you knowing you need to eat salad and you're not eating salad. 138 00:10:48,065 --> 00:10:48,275 Right? 139 00:10:48,275 --> 00:10:49,145 It's the same with money. 140 00:10:49,775 --> 00:10:56,646 So, um, for me the big one, I, I'd say the hands down biggest one is delayed gratification. 141 00:10:57,306 --> 00:11:04,136 If you cannot delay gratification for a period of time, it's gonna be really tough. 142 00:11:05,036 --> 00:11:06,656 'cause what most of us do. 143 00:11:07,781 --> 00:11:16,751 Is spend, everything that we have, and any of you listening to this who have ever had a pay rise and then gone, I still don't have any money left at the end of the month. 144 00:11:17,321 --> 00:11:19,751 That's how, you know you can't delay gratification. 145 00:11:20,291 --> 00:11:20,531 Okay. 146 00:11:20,531 --> 00:11:32,981 So there's a level to which, if you get a pay rise, if you don't put that amount of money somewhere else, I mean, unless you're dealing with like, you literally aren't paying your bills and that pay rise is gonna, you know, just like call you, call you quits. 147 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:38,490 but there are very few people who have come on my Money Mastermind course who have got past this. 148 00:11:38,580 --> 00:11:40,410 No, I, I've cut everything out. 149 00:11:40,410 --> 00:11:42,360 My expenses are really clean and I go, great. 150 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,640 Show me your, show me what you spend your money on. 151 00:11:44,700 --> 00:11:56,757 And there's always, without exception, I don't think, I don't think there's an exception to this rule of there will be things there that classed as necessities and they're just not. 152 00:11:57,537 --> 00:12:02,187 And we are in a world, and in the UK and in the west, we are in a world where. 153 00:12:02,727 --> 00:12:06,357 I think television and internet connection is now glassed as a necessity. 154 00:12:07,017 --> 00:12:22,497 And you could argue that's true, but there's a level to which as well, actually, I mean, I have the benefit of being born in Zimbabwe and I have the benefit of being gone back to Zimbabwe when I was 20 and being very confronted by the levels of poverty. 155 00:12:22,497 --> 00:12:27,987 I think if you don't see that in person, you don't really understand what it feels like actually seeing it in person. 156 00:12:28,647 --> 00:12:35,397 So I have a benefit of a perspective, which a lot of people would say, oh yeah, but that's relative poverty. 157 00:12:35,792 --> 00:12:36,902 As if it doesn't matter. 158 00:12:36,902 --> 00:12:40,472 It's like, yeah, but you know, in the UK we have relative poverty. 159 00:12:40,472 --> 00:12:46,262 You know, if you are living in a house and you are only just making your bills, that's classed as poor here. 160 00:12:46,922 --> 00:12:47,942 And I go, well, that's fine. 161 00:12:47,942 --> 00:13:00,362 But I'd rather compare myself to how in Zimbabwe people survive and then realize how much I've got, which means it's much easier to give up some of the things that I would class as a necessity and I don't really need. 162 00:13:00,992 --> 00:13:18,792 I think the minute we can look at people who really haven't got a lot and understand really what the basics are and when, you know, we walk around the supermarket putting things in our trolleys that we would call basics that just aren't, they're just not, they're absolute luxuries, but we think of them as they're just every day. 163 00:13:19,222 --> 00:13:25,402 And I think getting our, getting the mindset around that and really having a look and you know, anyone listening to this going, well, where do I start? 164 00:13:25,827 --> 00:13:27,772 Start with measuring your expenses. 165 00:13:27,772 --> 00:13:31,162 And I don't mean looking through your bank statement going, oh yeah, I know I've spent that. 166 00:13:31,552 --> 00:13:40,132 Take the information off the bank statement and put it into a spreadsheet and put food and everything you spend on food and entertainment and eating out. 167 00:13:40,132 --> 00:13:41,932 And I love speaking in London. 168 00:13:41,932 --> 00:13:44,242 'cause I just go, how much have you spent on Uber this month? 169 00:13:44,242 --> 00:13:46,042 How much have you spent in Pret this month? 170 00:13:46,102 --> 00:13:48,112 How much have you spent in Starbucks this month? 171 00:13:48,112 --> 00:13:48,442 Right. 172 00:13:48,742 --> 00:13:49,642 We've all got our versions. 173 00:13:49,642 --> 00:13:51,772 How much is, how much have you spent on Amazon this month? 174 00:13:51,802 --> 00:13:54,652 My one still is Audible and Amazon books. 175 00:13:54,652 --> 00:13:55,672 I spend a fortune. 176 00:13:56,136 --> 00:14:02,196 and actually really take stock of how much we spend and even the act of measuring it. 177 00:14:02,196 --> 00:14:04,536 So I started measuring my sleep. 178 00:14:04,626 --> 00:14:06,846 I already sleep better because I measure it. 179 00:14:07,356 --> 00:14:16,866 So even if you do nothing else than measure and actually be aware of what your spending, and take a little look back and go, well, how much did I used to live on? 180 00:14:17,154 --> 00:14:18,204 How much did I live on? 181 00:14:18,234 --> 00:14:25,584 You know, depending on how old we all are, one year, five year, 10 year, 15 years ago, and how much creep have I had because I earn more. 182 00:14:25,734 --> 00:14:36,234 So now I buy more organic food, or now I shop in Waitroses instead of little or now I go out instead of getting a takeaway like that creep is where the money goes. 183 00:14:36,444 --> 00:14:39,744 And when you take that money and spend it on things that is, it's gone. 184 00:14:39,774 --> 00:14:40,344 It's gone. 185 00:14:40,584 --> 00:14:48,213 When you take that money and you start putting it into things that work and that compound and that leverage, it's just a world away of what happens. 186 00:14:48,573 --> 00:14:50,193 So I think that's. 187 00:14:50,643 --> 00:14:55,983 That's where we all need to not only start, but even like me now, I've been doing this for a long time. 188 00:14:56,073 --> 00:14:57,933 I still need to bring myself back to that. 189 00:14:58,053 --> 00:15:03,063 'cause the creep happens to me now and getting that it's a practice just like healthy eating is. 190 00:15:03,303 --> 00:15:08,433 You don't get to eat healthy and go to the gym for a year look great and then never bother again. 191 00:15:08,613 --> 00:15:10,353 You've gotta do it for the rest of your life. 192 00:15:10,353 --> 00:15:11,313 And money's the same. 193 00:15:11,973 --> 00:15:16,441 It doesn't matter how much any of us have got, if we're not taking care of it, it's gonna go. 194 00:15:16,913 --> 00:15:19,613 Carlos: Um, so kind of a practical question here. 195 00:15:19,936 --> 00:15:27,076 I, I have the spreadsheet and I could probably tell you on general terms the kinds of stuff, know the whole eating out. 196 00:15:27,076 --> 00:15:32,656 I'm just, that's sort like, ooh, that's look like a fuzzy bubble of like stuff I spent, like a black hole of like extra spend. 197 00:15:32,656 --> 00:15:34,113 But, but it's a bit of a bull. 198 00:15:34,113 --> 00:15:40,113 Like, and also to keep track of, do you recommend or, or do you suggest any apps? 199 00:15:40,113 --> 00:15:42,753 Because I know of an app that I use, but I'm just wondering whether that's. 200 00:15:43,058 --> 00:15:46,718 There's a thing about data security and privacy, but at the same time there's is real convenience. 201 00:15:46,718 --> 00:15:51,698 Like you just connect this app to all of your bank accounts and it gives you like a idea of your expense. 202 00:15:51,878 --> 00:15:54,158 Is that something you'd recommend or is that something you've done? 203 00:15:54,556 --> 00:15:55,396 Alex-Louise: It's really interesting. 204 00:15:55,396 --> 00:16:00,166 So I re I recommend that to people after they've done it the hard way. 205 00:16:00,171 --> 00:16:00,471 Mm-Hmm. 206 00:16:00,556 --> 00:16:13,989 And the reason is, it's a bit like when you spend money on a debit card or a credit card versus have cash in your wallet, you don't feel it the same when an app tells you that this, this, and this has happened, you haven't kind of gone, oh God, there's another Starbucks. 207 00:16:14,019 --> 00:16:15,819 Oh Jesus, there's another Starbucks. 208 00:16:16,209 --> 00:16:22,719 Oh, I went to wait, you know, Waitroses or whatever shop three times this week when it's just given to you in a figure, it doesn't have the same effect. 209 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,430 it's the same on a, we play a cashflow game. 210 00:16:26,150 --> 00:16:26,780 I love this game. 211 00:16:26,780 --> 00:16:30,741 So there's another top tip wants this game is just, it's brilliant. 212 00:16:30,921 --> 00:16:40,281 Okay, so for those that aren't, can't see it's, uh, cashflow, it's the Robert Kiyosaki Rich Dad pulled up, and it's the same, there's an app that will do the math for that while you are playing the game. 213 00:16:40,671 --> 00:16:46,251 And I don't let people use it because it makes them lazy and then disconnected to what's actually happening. 214 00:16:46,551 --> 00:16:48,801 And I think once you've got it, it's fine. 215 00:16:48,801 --> 00:16:52,311 Use the apps because then you're just, you're making it time effective. 216 00:16:52,641 --> 00:17:03,654 But to actually really, you know, even if you just did one month of the pain of like, you know, writing it all into a spreadsheet or writing it on a, you know, writing it down, there's a, there's a lot of benefit in that. 217 00:17:03,654 --> 00:17:08,184 And then I think as far as apps go after that, people have gotta find the thing that works for them. 218 00:17:08,184 --> 00:17:10,704 So I don't particularly say do this one or that one. 219 00:17:11,094 --> 00:17:13,044 There's so many out there. 220 00:17:13,433 --> 00:17:22,703 Carlos: I like, well I like the, what you said in terms of like hand it over to the app, but you don't necessarily feel, you know, yeah, the, the pain for want of a better term. 221 00:17:22,733 --> 00:17:31,458 Because this links to essentially to my next kind of question here is like makes all great sense but people and they'll have heard you, everyone's heard you say that makes sense. 222 00:17:31,458 --> 00:17:31,998 Gotta do that. 223 00:17:32,003 --> 00:17:32,173 Yeah. 224 00:17:32,718 --> 00:17:32,778 Yeah. 225 00:17:32,778 --> 00:17:33,648 Still I wanna do it. 226 00:17:33,999 --> 00:17:34,179 Yeah. 227 00:17:34,224 --> 00:17:36,219 I still feel like I'm not sure I wanna do it. 228 00:17:36,219 --> 00:17:41,218 Would have, have you, in your experience, is there a pattern as to why people still don't go there? 229 00:17:41,248 --> 00:17:45,826 Or do you, are you able to, or they somehow it's a light bulb and say, oh yes, I'm gonna do it. 230 00:17:46,306 --> 00:17:51,766 Alex-Louise: It's the same as people don't wanna step on the scales to carry on using that analogy. 231 00:17:51,766 --> 00:17:54,106 We don't wanna look 'cause we don't wanna deal with stuff. 232 00:17:54,856 --> 00:17:59,926 And the thing to say is that actually when we do look, it's never as bad as we think it is. 233 00:18:00,376 --> 00:18:04,276 You know, the number of people who are, who have come to me and gone, oh, I'm in so much debt and in my head. 234 00:18:04,756 --> 00:18:08,806 Being in so much debt, like it has to be hundreds of thousands to start becoming a real problem. 235 00:18:08,866 --> 00:18:10,996 And they're like, it's 7,000 pounds. 236 00:18:10,996 --> 00:18:13,516 I'm like, oh my God, we can solve this So simply. 237 00:18:13,924 --> 00:18:21,844 so there's a, there's a psychological element of we think stuff's really bad because we are in it and it's our stuff, so we think it's much worse than it actually is. 238 00:18:22,204 --> 00:18:25,054 So actually doing that and also doing it with other people. 239 00:18:25,114 --> 00:18:32,404 So in the book, I advocate doing the book with other people so that you will, that, that people hold each other accountable and make sure the exercises get done. 240 00:18:32,704 --> 00:18:36,664 It's not a, for anyone who just likes reading and just wants to read the book, like it's not that kind of book. 241 00:18:36,664 --> 00:18:39,094 You need to do the exercises, otherwise it's just not gonna work. 242 00:18:39,094 --> 00:18:42,064 Like, save yourself a 30 qui, here's a money saving tip. 243 00:18:42,274 --> 00:18:43,624 You're not gonna do the exercise in the book. 244 00:18:43,684 --> 00:18:44,314 Don't buy the book. 245 00:18:44,314 --> 00:18:45,544 I've just saved you 30 pounds. 246 00:18:45,934 --> 00:18:48,083 it's like, it's not easy. 247 00:18:48,173 --> 00:18:50,393 It's not supposed to be easy, but it's worth it. 248 00:18:50,723 --> 00:18:56,070 And I think often, sadly, most people that come and work with me, it's because they're in pain. 249 00:18:56,876 --> 00:19:01,676 And I think there's a level to which humans, for some reason, we need to get a level of pain before we deal with stuff. 250 00:19:02,336 --> 00:19:05,876 You know, it's like, I, I did my journey because I had pain. 251 00:19:05,876 --> 00:19:08,486 I watched my parents go through what they went through and it was really hard. 252 00:19:08,486 --> 00:19:09,566 And I was like, I'm not doing that. 253 00:19:09,952 --> 00:19:18,740 So if people can give themselves fake pain, like actually looking into the future and going, well, if I do nothing, what's that gonna look like? 254 00:19:18,740 --> 00:19:22,610 And one way of doing that is if you don't have a pension, you are listening to this. 255 00:19:22,912 --> 00:19:25,282 You just Google what the state pension is. 256 00:19:25,515 --> 00:19:27,195 And it, it's in my book from the last figures. 257 00:19:27,195 --> 00:19:28,455 I can't, it's not very much. 258 00:19:28,455 --> 00:19:30,195 It's not even a thousand pounds a month. 259 00:19:30,225 --> 00:19:33,465 And especially now with the cost of living, just go, can you live on that? 260 00:19:33,825 --> 00:19:34,635 And what's your life? 261 00:19:34,665 --> 00:19:39,675 And like, just spend five minutes going, what's your life gonna look like when you can't work? 262 00:19:39,825 --> 00:19:43,425 'cause that comes to us all at some point, probably in some way, shape or form. 263 00:19:43,905 --> 00:19:46,245 You can't work or people won't employ you. 264 00:19:46,845 --> 00:19:48,525 And you've gotta live on 12 grand a year. 265 00:19:49,065 --> 00:19:51,975 And you've rented your whole life, and you don't own a house that's mortgage free. 266 00:19:51,975 --> 00:19:53,355 So you've reduced your costs. 267 00:19:53,757 --> 00:20:00,740 And I think it's like we can force that pain, if you like, in that reality, but it takes something to do that, because most people don't wanna do it. 268 00:20:01,130 --> 00:20:06,980 Ben: Uh, I was thinking about delayed classification, which is sort of not helpful because there's that experiment around eating donuts, isn't there? 269 00:20:07,310 --> 00:20:17,840 Uh, and whether if you leave the children in the room with the donut, uh, whether they kind of naturally eat the donut or not, I definitely, one of my kids would eat the donut and the other kid would not eat the donut. 270 00:20:18,170 --> 00:20:20,420 Uh, and so clearly they're going their own route there. 271 00:20:20,425 --> 00:20:22,940 But that's not really what we're about, but is what I was kind of wondering. 272 00:20:23,230 --> 00:20:26,860 Alex-Louise: It, it's, so here's the thing with, you can do that with kids. 273 00:20:26,860 --> 00:20:28,330 So like, with my children, I will. 274 00:20:28,660 --> 00:20:28,870 Yeah. 275 00:20:28,900 --> 00:20:37,450 'cause you can do that and you can keep doing that exercise and you can actually train your children to delay gratification as you start with 10 seconds, then 30 seconds, then a minute, then five minutes. 276 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:42,101 And actually doing that with children has been shown that later on in life they will absolutely be able to do this. 277 00:20:42,106 --> 00:20:42,315 Mm-Hmm. 278 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,820 So there is also, there's an inherent genetic, yes. 279 00:20:45,820 --> 00:20:48,580 We've all got our types and some of us find it harder to do that. 280 00:20:48,580 --> 00:20:50,920 So you absolutely have to have a big enough link and a big enough 281 00:20:51,271 --> 00:20:55,501 Ben: so, uh, you were talking about people come at a point of pain, which of course, of course make makes sense. 282 00:20:55,591 --> 00:21:12,721 So is is it typically people are coming because they feel and overwhelm around debt or they have got themselves into a scenario where they did momentarily project forward and think, fuck, how am I gonna, how hold all of this sort of together i, is there a sort of a, a kind of common pain which brings people to the table? 283 00:21:12,821 --> 00:21:13,751 Alex-Louise: It varies. 284 00:21:13,751 --> 00:21:20,081 I think the common denominator is age and starting to understand that retirement, you know, we're not gonna live forever. 285 00:21:20,201 --> 00:21:26,801 So people in their twenties generally just including myself, kind of in other areas, but not in the money area. 286 00:21:26,801 --> 00:21:28,241 We just go, it doesn't matter. 287 00:21:28,241 --> 00:21:29,231 We're gonna live forever. 288 00:21:29,231 --> 00:21:34,361 We're, you know, it's just our, what are all these old folks chatting on about saving it's nonsense. 289 00:21:35,096 --> 00:21:42,566 Then at 30 things happen, like having children, that's a really great one to suddenly make people go, oh, huh, I haven't got enough money. 290 00:21:42,656 --> 00:21:43,706 How am I gonna do this? 291 00:21:43,706 --> 00:21:46,196 What about university fees before retirement? 292 00:21:46,196 --> 00:21:55,095 Actually, losing a job, being in debt is, is a classic one of like, actually going into a debt cycle, paying it off, and then being in debt again, and that getting bigger. 293 00:21:55,485 --> 00:22:03,582 So there, there's, there's very uncommon denominators, but it's something that happens to individuals where they realize they can't sustain this. 294 00:22:03,582 --> 00:22:13,253 It's like, it's almost like probably a mortality check in a way of like, oh, actually I am gonna get older and I am gonna have to deal with this, so I need to do something. 295 00:22:13,253 --> 00:22:17,513 Whether that's having children or, or physically getting older or losing a job or being in debt. 296 00:22:17,513 --> 00:22:19,163 It's, it's a combination. 297 00:22:19,253 --> 00:22:20,993 I would say it's different for everybody. 298 00:22:21,465 --> 00:22:22,575 Carlos: I was gonna rewind. 299 00:22:22,695 --> 00:22:26,700 You know, you were talking about the why as I heard it anyway, because I felt like. 300 00:22:27,265 --> 00:22:29,605 where we started was like, all right, where are you right now? 301 00:22:29,605 --> 00:22:31,645 What is it you're spending your money on? 302 00:22:31,645 --> 00:22:34,435 Getting a handle hold of where the money is going? 303 00:22:35,455 --> 00:22:39,505 And then I, as I understand that step is like, if you can then say, okay, I won't spend it on that. 304 00:22:39,505 --> 00:22:44,305 I can delay my gratification or I won't just unconsciously spend stuff on things I don't really need. 305 00:22:44,725 --> 00:22:48,557 I now have this wedge of money on my pie chart that I can put somewhere else. 306 00:22:48,974 --> 00:22:56,331 I'd be curious to hear your thoughts around then giving, giving people that real motivation to then put that money somewhere helpful. 307 00:22:56,331 --> 00:23:01,801 And on part of it is what you just said here, for me, kind of it comes across as kind of fear based. 308 00:23:01,801 --> 00:23:06,091 Like what, what's gonna be like next, you know, in 20, 30 years time when you need that money. 309 00:23:06,091 --> 00:23:07,531 So, all right, put that away. 310 00:23:07,977 --> 00:23:15,717 Are there other ways that you've seen that has have motivated people to just always just stick it somewhere else rather than spend it right now? 311 00:23:16,031 --> 00:23:18,821 Alex-Louise: So yes, but it still comes back to having a why. 312 00:23:18,881 --> 00:23:23,321 And actually, um, Becky's put a comment about doesn't this stop us living in the moment? 313 00:23:23,861 --> 00:23:26,471 And I think that's a lie that we tell ourselves. 314 00:23:26,621 --> 00:23:30,581 Uh, 'cause then we don't have to kind of deal with it, you know, that like, oh, but I might die tomorrow. 315 00:23:30,701 --> 00:23:34,001 Like I used to smoke and go, I've gotta die somehow. 316 00:23:34,001 --> 00:23:34,871 What does it matter? 317 00:23:34,871 --> 00:23:41,111 It's kind of a bit of a, it's a bit of a smoke screen and it's something that we can tell ourselves to kind of go, I don't have to deal with this. 318 00:23:41,605 --> 00:23:45,467 I like to plan for the worst and hope for the best. 319 00:23:45,587 --> 00:23:51,467 And, you know, I intend to live till I'm 140 in the book and I wanna die in a snowboarding accident. 320 00:23:51,467 --> 00:23:53,327 So I need to live my life accordingly. 321 00:23:53,597 --> 00:23:59,117 And if I wanna be 140 dying in a snowboarding accent, there's things I need to do in the now to facilitate that. 322 00:23:59,387 --> 00:24:03,887 So there's definitely like a future that pulls me forward and I get all of my clients do that. 323 00:24:03,887 --> 00:24:09,857 It's like, where are you going and what would, so I ask myself, what would future 140 year old Alex Louise. 324 00:24:10,187 --> 00:24:11,567 Do in this situation. 325 00:24:11,717 --> 00:24:15,017 And it's a very different answer to what do I want to do right now? 326 00:24:15,398 --> 00:24:18,638 But it's more powerful when I stick with the where am I actually going? 327 00:24:19,088 --> 00:24:27,878 And it gives me, to give an example of living in the moment, I bought my first house when I was 22 and I bought it up in the Welsh Valleys, in Tom Lin. 328 00:24:27,908 --> 00:24:29,498 It was about 50,000 pounds. 329 00:24:29,498 --> 00:24:30,968 So this is 20 years ago. 330 00:24:31,688 --> 00:24:39,158 And everyone else was renting flats in Cardiff Bay, which is, you know, it's all like waterfront and apartment and all of this. 331 00:24:39,788 --> 00:24:45,098 And everyone's looking at me like I'm mad going, oh my God, why do you wanna live up there? 332 00:24:45,338 --> 00:24:53,108 Because back then it was like the Welsh Valley's, you know, high deprivation, low property prices, high unemployment, all of that world. 333 00:24:53,828 --> 00:25:02,498 And I was like, I don't wanna spend over a hundred thousand on a house in Cardiff that still needs a full refurb and I just can't afford it and I don't wanna spend all this money on rent. 334 00:25:02,498 --> 00:25:07,915 And that would be a good example of like people wanting to live in the now. 335 00:25:08,605 --> 00:25:19,675 But the difference 10 years on, 20 years on is, is polar opposites because the people that were renting back then spending a lot of money on rent are still renting now. 336 00:25:20,605 --> 00:25:23,455 Whereas I've got to a place where I never have to work again. 337 00:25:23,485 --> 00:25:35,245 We live in a, we live in a unbelievably beautiful house that we, yes, we're refurbing and we rent the air, the top floor on Airbnb, and it will make us, you know, we need to make money to, to make this house work. 338 00:25:35,725 --> 00:25:42,634 But it's, I'd rather drink tea in the Ritz once a year than have a Greg's cup of tea every morning. 339 00:25:43,624 --> 00:25:54,064 It's that, it's like, spend the money on something that's actually special and we remember rather than, you know, the cup of tea on the way to work that we don't even think about when we're spending it. 340 00:25:54,622 --> 00:25:59,182 so there's, it's, it's really hooking into like what actually matters and being conscious about it. 341 00:25:59,917 --> 00:26:06,157 Because the, you know, the cups of tea at Greg's in a paper cup that mean nothing that are all one pound 20. 342 00:26:06,157 --> 00:26:07,267 We just think they're nothing. 343 00:26:07,777 --> 00:26:15,817 But if you don't save the one pounds and the five pounds and the 10 pounds, you can never get to the 5,000 and the 10,000 and the 20,000. 344 00:26:15,877 --> 00:26:17,467 'cause it just, we never get there. 345 00:26:17,917 --> 00:26:24,637 And I do an exercise, there's an exercise in the book, and most people don't start thinking about investment until they've got 20 grand. 346 00:26:24,667 --> 00:26:31,117 Plus if you, if you ask them, problem with that is you never get to that amount while spending the small amount. 347 00:26:31,657 --> 00:26:38,977 So I think there's a, there's a just really getting that on a, on a level that's adding it up. 348 00:26:38,977 --> 00:26:40,207 So I like to add things up. 349 00:26:40,207 --> 00:26:43,597 So if someone goes, oh, it's only a fiver, I go, well, how many times a year do you do that? 350 00:26:43,897 --> 00:26:45,457 And how many years are you gonna do that for? 351 00:26:45,487 --> 00:26:47,197 And how much does that actually cost you? 352 00:26:47,437 --> 00:26:54,697 So all of a sudden that five pound Starbucks every day, some people over a year, I mean everyone can do the math, right? 353 00:26:55,129 --> 00:26:57,169 It's literally thousands of pounds. 354 00:26:57,575 --> 00:27:07,475 So, and again, so going back to the people who looked at me funny, when I moved up to the valleys 10 years old, they really wanted to know what I'd been doing when I went work anymore. 355 00:27:07,925 --> 00:27:09,605 And they went, wait, what? 356 00:27:09,815 --> 00:27:10,025 What? 357 00:27:10,085 --> 00:27:11,135 How did you do that? 358 00:27:11,375 --> 00:27:14,675 Well, you remember 10 years ago when I lived somewhere where none of you wanted to live. 359 00:27:14,915 --> 00:27:15,875 That's what I did. 360 00:27:16,218 --> 00:27:19,218 And then it's, so, it's, it's getting that, it's like, well, what do you want? 361 00:27:19,218 --> 00:27:25,668 Do you want the, like, glamor in the now or do you want like long-term sustainable wealth That actually is really special? 362 00:27:26,235 --> 00:27:26,595 I don't know. 363 00:27:26,655 --> 00:27:28,965 Let's say a, a nice car, right? 364 00:27:29,205 --> 00:27:31,485 So that's one of my favorite cars to Range Rover Sport. 365 00:27:31,665 --> 00:27:35,055 Now my husband calls me a complete cha for liking these cars. 366 00:27:35,055 --> 00:27:39,675 He absolutely disgusted at me for wanting a drug dealer's car is the other thing he calls it. 367 00:27:39,765 --> 00:27:43,622 And, and what's good for him is that I don't care what car I drive until it's one of those. 368 00:27:43,622 --> 00:27:45,812 Now what's interesting is I'm 43 this year. 369 00:27:45,812 --> 00:27:49,892 I still haven't got one because actually I've got priorities that are higher than that. 370 00:27:49,892 --> 00:27:53,582 Like we've got our kids in private school and we wanted to live in this house and all the rest of it. 371 00:27:54,152 --> 00:28:00,356 If I'd have bought a Range Rover Sport 10 years ago, that would've cost me, I don't know what, what that is on finance. 372 00:28:00,356 --> 00:28:05,452 Let's say 6, 7, 800 pounds a month, times a year, times 10 years. 373 00:28:05,816 --> 00:28:06,506 Let's do it. 374 00:28:06,506 --> 00:28:08,396 I mean, it's, it's just, I'm just gonna walk out 375 00:28:09,926 --> 00:28:12,716 Carlos: live maths here on pricing, 376 00:28:14,336 --> 00:28:14,546 Alex-Louise: right? 377 00:28:14,546 --> 00:28:18,236 So let, let's be, let's say it's, let's say it's six 50 pounds a month. 378 00:28:18,656 --> 00:28:19,076 Okay? 379 00:28:19,106 --> 00:28:22,616 That's 7,800 pounds a year, times 10 years. 380 00:28:22,736 --> 00:28:24,356 That's 78 grand. 381 00:28:25,046 --> 00:28:27,266 And I still have to keep spending that money because. 382 00:28:27,731 --> 00:28:32,831 Range Rovers for those that don't know are notorious for breaking down and are fricking terrible cars. 383 00:28:32,831 --> 00:28:36,071 So you basically just have to keep having new ones and, and all that. 384 00:28:36,611 --> 00:28:48,841 Well, with 78,000 pounds, I could go and buy holiday, let, and I have a holiday, let in fourth call, which the deposit, I mean the deposit is actually nil 'cause of the way I did the deal. 385 00:28:48,841 --> 00:28:54,301 But just for argument's sake, let's say I bought it as it is done now, it's worth 185,000 pounds. 386 00:28:55,119 --> 00:29:01,590 Now 25% of that is 46,000 pounds, 46,250 pounds. 387 00:29:02,010 --> 00:29:15,060 So I could have delayed that Range Rover for five years, saved up that 50 grand, put that into a holiday, let got a holiday, let mortgage that holiday, let live actual figures like today that, you know, goes to the tax man. 388 00:29:15,060 --> 00:29:18,090 It makes me 12 grand a year for the rest of my life. 389 00:29:18,780 --> 00:29:23,040 So that pays for my Range Rover and something else. 390 00:29:23,835 --> 00:29:28,159 I put it off for five years and the difference, like the flip, is just unbelievable. 391 00:29:28,309 --> 00:29:41,801 So wait five years, put that 50 grand into a holiday, let but you know, drive an old banger in the meantime, put that into a holiday, let and then have a thousand pounds for the rest of my life every month for the rest of my life to have Range Rovers, whatever. 392 00:29:42,611 --> 00:29:46,421 The irony being then, you know, once we have money for things, we often don't want them. 393 00:29:46,421 --> 00:29:49,931 So I'm like, well, do I wanna spank that much money on a Ranger road? 394 00:29:49,931 --> 00:29:50,921 But no, I don't. 395 00:29:51,399 --> 00:29:55,989 but you get the idea once people actually start to look at what they spend and multiply it out over a lifetime. 396 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:02,740 For me it's like, how do you spend that money when you look at it like that, but it's getting, it's getting people, you know, and everyone listening. 397 00:30:02,740 --> 00:30:04,270 It's like, well do it for yourselves. 398 00:30:04,270 --> 00:30:15,280 Like have a look at that coffee or that whatever your do dad is to use a Robert Kiyosaki term, find out what it is in terms of over five and 10 years and go, well, if I gave that up for five years. 399 00:30:15,550 --> 00:30:16,480 That will give this. 400 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:17,710 And then how do I leverage that? 401 00:30:18,010 --> 00:30:22,720 My gains property, you know, I've used property to, to leverage and do it faster. 402 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,959 But you can do it with stocks and shares and all sorts of, so what I'd like 403 00:30:25,959 --> 00:30:27,579 Carlos: to do is, uh, flip that bit. 404 00:30:27,609 --> 00:30:34,449 'cause I, there's a, we've, on one hand, we, we've talked about reducing spending to the essentials. 405 00:30:34,659 --> 00:30:42,056 And so this whole delay gratification Using that money to then potentially invest in order to then bring that back. 406 00:30:42,296 --> 00:30:44,396 And so there's a level of patience that's required there. 407 00:30:44,903 --> 00:30:50,663 And another thing is, and try to relate it to this podcast, how we earn money. 408 00:30:51,413 --> 00:30:52,733 And how we price. 409 00:30:53,303 --> 00:30:53,423 Yeah. 410 00:30:53,453 --> 00:31:00,233 And, and one of the exercises that, that Ben and I take people through is like, what will more money buy me? 411 00:31:01,043 --> 00:31:06,743 Which I think is relating to your, why am I saving, what is it I'm trying to get towards? 412 00:31:07,348 --> 00:31:07,948 And so. 413 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:13,660 There's one aspect that I'm hearing around this is just like, what kind of lifestyle do I wanna lead when I'm older? 414 00:31:13,990 --> 00:31:19,030 How, you know, I wanna die 140 snowboarding, that thing. 415 00:31:19,030 --> 00:31:32,259 But there's also, think what I'm trying to get to as a way to help motivate us, not only to save more, but also to earn more, particularly for those of us here who are purpose driven, who don't think money is something I need to accumulate. 416 00:31:32,752 --> 00:31:42,380 Can you share any thoughts or inspiration as to how to create this picture of like, oh, what great would look like with more money that isn't just being greedy and just keeping things to myself? 417 00:31:42,646 --> 00:31:43,576 Alex-Louise: Yeah, absolutely. 418 00:31:43,666 --> 00:31:52,786 Um, so the thing about any belief around money and it being greedy is it's, it's misplaced projection. 419 00:31:52,786 --> 00:32:07,047 Ben was saying that the way I like to look at money is it's just an exchange in energy and it's also a measure, like if you wanna be really cold and hard about it, it's just a measure about how good you are at what you're doing and how good you are at charging for that. 420 00:32:07,587 --> 00:32:10,887 And just because people have a lot of wealth, it doesn't mean it's bad. 421 00:32:10,917 --> 00:32:12,807 Like those two are completely distinct. 422 00:32:12,807 --> 00:32:17,277 Like, like having money doesn't mean anything other than you have a load of money in your bank account. 423 00:32:17,697 --> 00:32:20,547 What we choose to do with it, everyone's different. 424 00:32:20,637 --> 00:32:27,297 And the, the reality is that people that choose to do good with money, they'll do good with money whether they've got loads or none of it, and vice versa. 425 00:32:27,297 --> 00:32:35,247 People who don't wanna give back to community and, and build better structures and you know, have more workability in the world, they're not gonna do that. 426 00:32:35,247 --> 00:32:36,297 Whether they're poor or rich, either. 427 00:32:36,687 --> 00:32:37,977 They're gonna do what they wanna do. 428 00:32:38,350 --> 00:32:44,320 so the thing about having wealth is we've got more power to change things. 429 00:32:44,858 --> 00:32:48,814 So when I became financially free, I then freed up my time. 430 00:32:48,814 --> 00:32:54,934 And I think this is the other thing that people don't talk enough about in financial freedom, it's not about the money, it's about time. 431 00:32:55,414 --> 00:32:59,404 At which point I can spend the rest of my life going, what do I want to change in the world? 432 00:32:59,464 --> 00:33:00,244 What matters to me? 433 00:33:00,244 --> 00:33:01,444 What do I really care about? 434 00:33:01,744 --> 00:33:05,494 Which piece of the planet am I gonna leave in a better state than I found it? 435 00:33:06,004 --> 00:33:09,544 And the more resources and money I have, the more impact I can have. 436 00:33:09,899 --> 00:33:11,614 And, and we've just gotta deal with that. 437 00:33:11,614 --> 00:33:14,044 Like that's the reality of the way our system works. 438 00:33:14,254 --> 00:33:17,464 If you have finance, you can buy stuff that can make a difference. 439 00:33:17,644 --> 00:33:23,134 Now if you just throw money at people, that's giving people fish, not teaching them how to fish. 440 00:33:23,464 --> 00:33:26,434 And teaching people how to fish costs money. 441 00:33:27,154 --> 00:33:29,374 So teach more people to fish. 442 00:33:29,854 --> 00:33:31,924 It's like, it's like how do you spend that money? 443 00:33:31,924 --> 00:33:35,164 So it's effective, but that again, is a completely distinct conversation. 444 00:33:35,314 --> 00:33:39,184 There are charities that are effective at what they do, and there are charities that are ineffective. 445 00:33:39,334 --> 00:33:41,464 It's nothing to do with the amount of money they have. 446 00:33:41,584 --> 00:33:42,844 It's about effectiveness. 447 00:33:43,294 --> 00:33:48,634 and I think to, to link it all the way back to charging, there's a fair exchange that needs to happen. 448 00:33:48,814 --> 00:33:53,277 Most coaches, therapists, artists, creatives, people, helpers. 449 00:33:53,277 --> 00:33:56,547 I've just noticed Francis here, hi Francis, and saying patience. 450 00:33:56,547 --> 00:33:57,177 It's like that. 451 00:33:57,177 --> 00:34:01,527 That's the other thing is patience is the biggest word ever in this journey. 452 00:34:02,086 --> 00:34:05,341 If we don't charge enough, we end up burnt out. 453 00:34:05,875 --> 00:34:09,175 So when I don't charge enough for what I do, I get resentful. 454 00:34:09,325 --> 00:34:11,065 That's it, like a hundred percent. 455 00:34:11,065 --> 00:34:12,955 I get resentful about what I do. 456 00:34:13,195 --> 00:34:14,245 I start getting annoyed. 457 00:34:14,275 --> 00:34:23,905 And one of the ways I know I need to put my prices up when I'm reviewing it is if I'm showing up to my coaching calls and I'm starting to feel a bit begrudging about showing up for that. 458 00:34:24,205 --> 00:34:31,714 It's usually because there's a mismatch in value, So I'm showing up, I'm not charging enough, or I haven't changed things up. 459 00:34:31,714 --> 00:34:37,834 So I changed things up recently in my business where I started coaching groups of groups instead of coaching individual groups. 460 00:34:38,134 --> 00:34:40,654 Prior to that, I would only coach individuals. 461 00:34:41,033 --> 00:34:48,683 So I haven't ever really put my prices up in the per hour sense, but I coach more people in that same hour in a group. 462 00:34:48,863 --> 00:34:50,063 So that's how I do it. 463 00:34:50,603 --> 00:34:59,693 But each time that I find myself getting bored, resentful, a bit flippant, not preparing for what I'm gonna do, I'm like, oh, hang on, there's a flag here. 464 00:34:59,723 --> 00:35:00,893 I need to put my prices up. 465 00:35:01,193 --> 00:35:03,743 And most people aren't connected to that in themselves. 466 00:35:04,088 --> 00:35:07,088 Or they're feeling that, but they're not understanding what it is. 467 00:35:07,328 --> 00:35:15,908 So anyone who's listening to this going, oh God, is that why I, I'm getting angry or I'm feeling annoyed with my clients, or I'm not showing up properly. 468 00:35:15,908 --> 00:35:17,258 It's like, yeah, you're not charging enough. 469 00:35:17,558 --> 00:35:21,008 More often than not, that will solve, that will solve an issue. 470 00:35:21,449 --> 00:35:21,629 Carlos: Thank you. 471 00:35:21,629 --> 00:35:22,049 And then 472 00:35:22,064 --> 00:35:23,909 Alex-Louise: it's like, do what you want with the money. 473 00:35:23,909 --> 00:35:24,749 Give it to charity. 474 00:35:24,749 --> 00:35:29,389 If you really don't want it, like give it to charity, but have the wealth and then do good stuff with it. 475 00:35:29,389 --> 00:35:31,369 Don't avoid the wealth 'cause you think it's bad. 476 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:44,270 Ben: I think one of my sort of first sort of roots into properly thinking about money as opposed to just sort of ignoring it, um, was a, uh, course thing that I've been on with a Buddhist meditation teacher. 477 00:35:44,270 --> 00:35:59,314 And, and basically one of the kind of topics was on money and he started that with this kind of provocation, which is, you know, if I say to you, money, money, money, money, what comes up for you? 478 00:35:59,374 --> 00:36:03,334 And it was this kind of so realized that actually just how kind of emotionally charged. 479 00:36:03,634 --> 00:36:06,154 It is in all the different ways, kind of good and bad. 480 00:36:06,454 --> 00:36:15,664 And a lot of the conversation that we were sort of having, uh, earlier in the chat around purchases and consumption and what we're buying, it's all kind of wrapped up to the same thing. 481 00:36:15,664 --> 00:36:21,784 And, you know, the, the response, which is some people will say, oh, you know, money's not important to me and therefore I'm pushing it away. 482 00:36:21,784 --> 00:36:23,674 And other people will say, no, I need more money. 483 00:36:23,674 --> 00:36:24,424 I need more money. 484 00:36:24,424 --> 00:36:30,274 And it's just, it's the same energy essentially just kind of matter of, you know, expressing itself kind of different ways around. 485 00:36:30,724 --> 00:36:34,144 And it kind of feels to me that actually kind of understanding some of that, those. 486 00:36:34,804 --> 00:36:41,224 Sort of emotional drivers, understanding some of that pull will kind of will create some space for people a little bit. 487 00:36:41,374 --> 00:36:47,074 So you can go into like some of the exercises you are talking about there, about imagining what you might do with kind of more money. 488 00:36:47,074 --> 00:36:52,414 Whether it's kind of projecting forward, you know, 10, 20, 30 years, whatever kind of retirement might be for you. 489 00:36:52,654 --> 00:37:04,444 Or it's just about kind of understanding some of the kind of complexity around this and you know, being a bit more kind of intentional about how we're living, what we're choosing to spend, where we're choosing to invest our kind of time, our energy, and all of these things. 490 00:37:04,624 --> 00:37:10,084 This all just comes back to the immediate too, actually and in, you know, in how I'm kind of living each day. 491 00:37:10,325 --> 00:37:13,445 Carlos: I'm glad you did that 'cause that's exactly where I wanted to take us. 492 00:37:13,545 --> 00:37:18,465 ' cause I feel we started from the outside and now I feel we wanna work inside. 493 00:37:19,125 --> 00:37:22,845 And what I heard from your story, Alex Louise. 494 00:37:23,328 --> 00:37:36,704 Was, there's a, there was a lot of experiences in your early life that have motivated you to do certain, have certain behaviors with money and I assume certain beliefs so I'd love to hear, yeah. 495 00:37:36,914 --> 00:37:52,525 Talk more of to that in your experience as your own personal beliefs and how you worked through them and integrated them and they also, the kinds of beliefs you see people, come to you with and how they've had to come to terms with that in order for them to then do the work that you tell them to do. 496 00:37:52,965 --> 00:37:59,235 Alex-Louise: to me, this what I say is now obvious and I'm amazed how not obvious it is to a lot of people and. 497 00:37:59,895 --> 00:38:07,365 I go away with a couple of girlfriends a couple of times a year for a weekend and I find myself over that weekend joking going, childhood trauma. 498 00:38:07,365 --> 00:38:08,595 It's really fucking real, man. 499 00:38:08,805 --> 00:38:15,358 'cause we, of what we're talking about and if you think you don't have childhood trauma you haven't found it yet. 500 00:38:15,418 --> 00:38:16,048 That's it. 501 00:38:16,378 --> 00:38:18,838 And I'm not saying trauma with a big tea. 502 00:38:18,868 --> 00:38:19,768 It could be a little tea. 503 00:38:19,828 --> 00:38:25,066 You know, mine was, my mom would not like it when my brother said he didn't like what was for dinner. 504 00:38:25,531 --> 00:38:29,911 And then I went, oh look, it's not okay to say what we feel 'cause mommy will get angry. 505 00:38:30,271 --> 00:38:30,721 Right? 506 00:38:30,781 --> 00:38:35,881 All of that world and money is so wrapped up in all of that, it's unbelievable. 507 00:38:36,031 --> 00:38:43,471 So the other thing to say on this, just to what you're saying, this is just a total journey of dealing with what happened to us in our childhood. 508 00:38:43,621 --> 00:38:46,261 Being free from that, which ironically frees us up for money. 509 00:38:46,261 --> 00:38:54,331 So any time in our adult lives that we are banging up against something and we're upset or we're triggered or what, however you would word it for yourselves. 510 00:38:54,571 --> 00:39:00,001 But there is like, we have not got freedom and we're, it's like we're watching ourselves react in a way. 511 00:39:00,601 --> 00:39:02,881 It's all just an invitation for healing. 512 00:39:03,313 --> 00:39:06,163 And money is money and intimate relationships. 513 00:39:06,163 --> 00:39:07,993 I'd say hands down are the two biggest ones. 514 00:39:07,993 --> 00:39:15,073 And then there's, you know, all of the rest come into that, but most of them actually come under that love and money, those two subjects. 515 00:39:15,613 --> 00:39:18,463 As a child, how were your parents around money? 516 00:39:18,613 --> 00:39:19,393 What did they do? 517 00:39:19,393 --> 00:39:20,353 What did they say? 518 00:39:20,383 --> 00:39:22,003 What did people you respected say? 519 00:39:22,123 --> 00:39:23,293 What did your teachers say? 520 00:39:23,293 --> 00:39:23,713 I mean. 521 00:39:24,163 --> 00:39:30,343 God bless our teachers and they don't help us with money because they're not doing money, right? 522 00:39:30,943 --> 00:39:35,321 So we, we grow up with all, you know, I mean, God, how many people have money? 523 00:39:35,321 --> 00:39:42,403 Doesn't grow, grow on trees, we're so brainwashed as children into whatever happened around us. 524 00:39:42,643 --> 00:39:47,353 If we don't unpick that as adults, like it is, I believe it's our job from when we hit 18 or younger. 525 00:39:47,353 --> 00:39:49,963 If you leave home earlier, it is our job to self parent. 526 00:39:50,203 --> 00:39:54,193 And anything that didn't work that was in insufficient from our childhood, we gotta deal with it. 527 00:39:54,493 --> 00:39:59,923 you know, one of my clients, she says, oh, you hood wink us all with money and financial freedom, and then you make a deal with our shit. 528 00:39:59,983 --> 00:40:02,953 And it's like, yeah, because that's the only way you can deal with your money. 529 00:40:03,198 --> 00:40:12,290 the money's the trigger, you know, the unworkability around money or getting into debt or spending, like why are people spending, you know, they're spending to feel good, or why don't you feel good? 530 00:40:12,530 --> 00:40:14,240 Why do you have to spend that money? 531 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:15,950 You don't need to spend that money. 532 00:40:15,950 --> 00:40:17,870 You're spending it to feel good in the moment. 533 00:40:18,170 --> 00:40:25,400 In the same way that I used to smoke and I used to put sugar in my coffee and I used to drink a lot of espressos to get me through the day. 534 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,170 And I used to drink alcohol at night. 535 00:40:27,530 --> 00:40:29,090 You know, after a long day shift. 536 00:40:29,090 --> 00:40:31,160 Spending money's just in that bracket too. 537 00:40:31,550 --> 00:40:37,040 It's like we do it to feel good and we go to the shops and it's all set up to actually make us feel bad. 538 00:40:37,220 --> 00:40:40,130 Shops are set up to make us feel bad and inadequate. 539 00:40:40,340 --> 00:40:43,910 And if you buy these things, you'll look like the model in the poster. 540 00:40:44,217 --> 00:40:49,917 You know, I don't actually go to shops most of the time 'cause it's just, it's like, why would I wanna put myself through that? 541 00:40:50,327 --> 00:40:54,257 We've turned human beings, I can't remember who said this recently, that I've listened to a podcast. 542 00:40:54,497 --> 00:40:56,867 We've turned human beings into consumers. 543 00:40:57,303 --> 00:40:58,503 We are not consumers. 544 00:40:58,503 --> 00:41:00,483 That's not what we're on this planet for. 545 00:41:00,993 --> 00:41:06,033 And every time we buy something and we consume, you know, even just buying the kids. 546 00:41:06,033 --> 00:41:06,603 Plastic. 547 00:41:06,603 --> 00:41:07,233 Fantastic. 548 00:41:07,233 --> 00:41:08,733 As I call it, just shit. 549 00:41:08,973 --> 00:41:09,573 It's like, why? 550 00:41:09,573 --> 00:41:17,835 Well, like what if the west being wealthy is ends in consumerism, like it's just empty. 551 00:41:18,225 --> 00:41:24,675 and for anyone who's like, I don't wanna deal with my childhood, or I don't wanna open that can of worms, or I don't want to go there, sorry. 552 00:41:24,675 --> 00:41:29,651 No pass you, if you want to deal with whatever it is on the surface level, you have to go there. 553 00:41:30,105 --> 00:41:36,102 And what there is to say is it's never as bad as you think, that black hole that you think is gonna swallow you, that you'll never come out of. 554 00:41:36,102 --> 00:41:39,158 It's never as bad as you think you'll always survive and get through it. 555 00:41:39,158 --> 00:41:44,318 And actually coming out of that black hole at the end of it, if that's what it feels like to you, is so freeing. 556 00:41:44,588 --> 00:41:47,018 Like, I look younger now than I did 10 years ago. 557 00:41:47,220 --> 00:41:51,720 it's just, it's unbelievable for health as well, you know, doing this work. 558 00:41:52,138 --> 00:41:53,698 Carlos: I, I'm drinking from the Kool-Aid. 559 00:41:53,728 --> 00:41:56,908 'cause I, I kind of think of that in terms of entrepreneurship as well. 560 00:41:57,538 --> 00:42:17,946 You know, the things that we, as it, our reactions to some of these, or the places where we struggle in our work are like, I hate you say an invitation to heal, whether that's marketing, selling, creation, product building, managing, it's all, all, um, an invitation. 561 00:42:18,066 --> 00:42:19,956 It feels, and, and that feels empowering. 562 00:42:19,986 --> 00:42:20,766 I like that. 563 00:42:20,796 --> 00:42:23,646 Rather than, oh, I just can't do this 'cause I'm, I'm not good enough. 564 00:42:23,706 --> 00:42:25,836 It's like, actually you can, you just need to heal. 565 00:42:26,394 --> 00:42:34,734 Ben: I think I was sort of struck by actually something you said right at the beginning, which, uh, sort of brings us all the back that, uh, how sort of popular a topic this is. 566 00:42:35,034 --> 00:42:51,714 And I could, the kind of reason to reflect on that, not just kinda reflecting on that, it's a popular topic, but you know, it, these, you know, money, our relationship to money, all of this is just, it's everywhere, you know, and it's such an emotionally charged thing and it means so many different things for different people. 567 00:42:51,984 --> 00:42:54,654 Uh, but no, I really kind of appreciate everything that you've shared. 568 00:42:54,714 --> 00:43:06,984 Uh, Alex, I think it's really, really inspiring story and, um, some really good practical teachings for people to ignore in terms of I'm not gonna do that hard work of actually just working outspending. 569 00:43:08,184 --> 00:43:08,364 Alex-Louise: Yeah. 570 00:43:09,354 --> 00:43:09,594 But no. 571 00:43:09,594 --> 00:43:09,654 Yeah. 572 00:43:12,084 --> 00:43:13,949 Drink water, eat salad, save money. 573 00:43:15,019 --> 00:43:15,509 Ben: Exactly. 574 00:43:15,659 --> 00:43:16,149 Exactly. 575 00:43:16,524 --> 00:43:20,334 No, but I really appreciate everything that you've shared, uh, really, really insightful. 576 00:43:20,364 --> 00:43:20,754 Thank you. 577 00:43:21,020 --> 00:43:23,090 Carlos: Thank you very much everyone for joining us. 578 00:43:23,150 --> 00:43:32,360 Um, we hope to, well hope to hear you come back to us with all your wonderful savings advances in terms of knowing what to dump. 579 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,470 And I have 60 quids worth of subscriptions I need to really have a look at 580 00:43:38,265 --> 00:43:38,885 Ben: and we all 581 00:43:39,803 --> 00:43:40,133 Carlos: Okay. 582 00:43:40,133 --> 00:43:41,093 You take care everyone. 583 00:43:41,212 --> 00:43:41,362 Bye. 584 00:43:41,367 --> 00:43:42,207 Thanks, Alex. 585 00:43:42,507 --> 00:43:42,927 Cheers.