You are listening to the we need to Talk About Oscar podcast and this is our conversation with Matthias Bastos, cinematographer of Gazer.

And also, you know, I would keep as many notes as possible of like, well, I shot this scene at a T4 and my meter was reading this and me and my gaffer would constantly talk about how do we like keep this consistent, how do we do this and et cetera.

But there was also an element of like letting go that we had to do.

As the film changes, you know, throughout the script writing phase, production phase and post, so do we as people and so do our ideas and conceptions.

And you know, I'm a very different person than I was from the beginning of that movie even till like when we just finished editing the movie.

We are of course here to cover your debut feature as a DP Gazer.

But first let's talk a little bit about how you got here and first there to shooting Gazer, what led you to filmmaking in the first place and yeah, specifically cinematography.

Yeah, so I've always had a passion for storytelling in one way or another.

Like many other people, I think, you know, they can point to things like Star wars or Lord of the Rings or etc, these like larger than life things that are really inspiring and just like push the imagination forward.

So I think for me it was kind of the same thing.

I really fell in love with that aspect of storytelling and just these like larger than life things that sort of transported you out of reality into a different world.

And I think as from a little kid, I've always been just so interested in storytelling where like during recess I would get my friends together and I would improvise like a story, like a scary story to them and just tell them stories about things or I would assign roles to people or write little short stories like, okay, I'm the knight and you're the, the other knight and we're fighting and this person is like the, the jester and this person's doing that.

And.

And so I just always had this like wild imagination of like, you know, what storytelling could be.

And so I thought as a kid I was maybe going to get into some sort of performance or theater or whatever.

But then as I became older, I realized that, you know, movies aren't just willed into existence by an outside being, they're made by people.

And so I became really interested in how movies get made and learning about George Lucas and just all the behind the scenes stuff with Peter Jackson on Lord of the Rings or whatever.

And so I think from there I became really interested in how movies get made.

And it wasn't until, honestly, until I got to college.

Because between like being a child, you know, like elementary school, junior high school, and my.

My time in grad school, I was in a band.

I was playing drums in a band for about 10 years.

I was touring and traveling and writing music.

And that kind of was like a.

I'll call it a detour for a little bit.

I think it was necessary because so many of the things that I've learned and gathered and explored in my musical career I brought with me to my film career.

But it wasn't until I was in college where I started to really appreciate filmmakers that weren't just directors.

I think, you know, around that 2013, 2014 time was really, I think, special time to be a young blossoming filmmaker in film school because you were getting films like Whiplash and Birdman and you know, not long after the Revenant, the Imitation game, you know, etc.

Just like, I think I just fell.

I felt like I was suddenly, you know, learning about Indiewire and Hollywood Reporter and Deadline and et cetera, all while I was engaging in these movies.

And so right around that 2013, 2014 time, I had watched kind of two films back to back that kind of set me on my cinematography career.

I watched Prisoners by Denis Villeneuve and I watched Black Swan by Darren Aronofsky.

And those two films were kind of the first time where as soon as they ended, you know, the title cinematographer came up and I saw Roger A.

Deakins and I said, who's Roger Deakins?

And Matthew or Matty Libatique?

And I said, who's this guy?

And I started going down like this rabbit hole of who they were and what a cinematographer does.

And I realized that I think I was really feeling connected through the visuals of the storytelling to elevate the performances.

I've always been one who cared more about story and performance and character driven dramas more than anything.

But I felt like I had a place in the visual storytelling of it all sort.

That was sort of my beginning.

And then, you know, seven, eight years ago, I worked on a short film.

I was the gaffer.

And on that short film I met Ryan J.

Sloan, the director of Gazer.

He was the ad and Ariella, the co writer and the lead of Gazer, was also working on that film, doing various roles, like paying and helping with wardrobe and et cetera.

And we all just like kind of really fell in love.

None of us were necessarily making our own films in that way.

We were Just working on this project and we found this, like, shared, beautiful connection.

Ryan and I grew up in the same town, blocks from each other, never knew each other, went to the same college, never knew each other because we were a couple years apart.

And we both played music growing up, Ariella as well, and just never.

We didn't met until we ended up on this set together doing a short film for no money.

And we just realized, like, I think we're, we're meant to be connected.

And we made a short film together later that year called the Message for James that we shot in Ireland.

We did some crowdfunding and put our money together.

And we're just a bunch of dumb, naive kids who think we can make a short film in Ireland.

And we did.

And a couple years after that, Ryan gave me a call saying, I'm making my first movie.

It's called Gazer, and I want you to shoot it.

And seven years ago, seven, eight years ago, from working on that film to now, we now Gazer is coming out in theaters.

Yeah.

And other than being the DP on Gazer, you're also credited as a producer on the film, which, yeah, one could think is a, I don't know, a kind gesture on a small indie film, but here that's just not the case.

What did your participation entail in order for you to earn this credit?

I mean, you know, the one thing I'll say is I have so much respect and admiration for all these amazing producers that I've worked with and many of the producers on Gazer as well.

And, you know, I can't possibly do everything they do where I kind of fit into the role of producer on Gazer was, you know, I am there for like 100% creative support in many ways that a DP might already do on an indie.

But I felt like I had a place to go above and beyond.

And because of my, you know, deep, intimate relationship with Ryan and Ariella, they, they sort of wanted to have me on as much as possible.

I got on board, you know, sort of in the middle of the script phase and was just, you know, reading and doing all the typical DP duties you would do.

You scout, you shot, list, you storyboard, et cetera, people.

But then I also, you know, decided that if, if I was going to make a movie in this way, which was, you know, self finance, micro budget, shot on film with a tiny, tiny crew over the course of nights and weekends, just shooting whenever we could afford it, I knew that I couldn't just be a dp on this I had to be so much more and really help elevate the project.

So my involvement really became, you know, bringing on another EP on the project to help with some small investments and helping with insurances I helped suggest and secure different locations connected the production with different vendors or different post production teams that I knew.

I helped build the post production team.

I was involved with approvals on every VFX shot, making sure things were working right and things were matching the way that we had shot the footage.

I sat in on every sound mixing session, just being there in the room and you know, letting the director and our amazing sound designer and mixer Giuseppe do their great work.

But you know, chiming in as well, being like, well, what if we did this kind of sound design?

Or you know, I feel like things could ramp up a little bit here.

And you know, I think to me my co producer credit really came on board in a way of like I was committed to this project for the long haul from beginning to, you know, even helping out with looking at sales agents and taking on different meetings and helping, you know, bolster things at our film festivals and just being as involved as I could and you know, and even in ways that I didn't even take credit for.

Like we did a massive re edit of the movie some point late in 2023, early 2024, and I sat with Ryan and we re edited the picture together based off of some notes that we got from an editing consultant.

And so all those things were just like my involvement with the film.

But that's why I took a co producing credit because I wasn't involved with anything as far as paperwork or SAG or money, et cetera.

I was just there as a creative support to lift this and be there in whatever way that Ryan or Ayla needed.

So that was my involvement with the project.

And you know, I don't do it for every single film.

But the films that are near and dear to me and have a place for me and have a place where they would want that sort of connection for me, I'm more than happy to step up and be that person.

Yeah.

And now that you mentioned your involvement in the editing process as well, what difference do your eyes and understanding of the visuals as a cinematographer make and mean in how you perceive what's on the screen in front of you during that part of post?

It's a great question.

I think, you know, at the end of the day there's a couple of sequences or scenes or shots that were, you know, things that I, I enjoyed That I wish, you know, maybe stayed in the edit for my DP side of my brain.

You know, I was felt maybe a little selfishly like, oh, I really like that shot, or that scene changed a little bit or this and that.

But, you know, I think just as a writer director, there's the writer, you.

And then when you're on set, you become the director, you.

And I think that as I sort of bled into my producing roles in the post end of things, I had to let go of my DP side a little bit and focus on how do we make the best film possible.

I think in a way you can't ever fully let go because I'm also thinking about color and like I said, matching the VFX to our color.

And we did a framing pass sometimes where I'd be like, hey, we need to move the image up or in, or let's punch in and center it a little bit more.

So there's always a sense of like, I want the visuals to be as strong as possible, but I also have to be on the same page with Ryan, my director, where as soon as he's like, this scene has to go.

Cause it no longer serves the edit.

Even if something in that scene is something I'm visually proud of or I really enjoyed, I have to be on the same page of him as a producer and be like, we are here to make the best movie possible.

Not the prettiest movie possible or the slickest movie possible.

It's the best movie possible.

And so I think that's where the producing side comes in and the separation from the DP brain.

Fascinating.

Or we could get just like a Director's cut.

The DP's cut.

Maybe one day.

Maybe one day.

I love cinematography and I love writing.

And I'm so glad that something you've mentioned is how much your work is centered around storytelling.

But at the same time, I do feel like, as a whole, we don't talk enough about the two hand in hand.

So I'm curious, what was your understanding on the script like?

And how did it differ from Ryan and Ariella and the directors in Ryan and the actors?

With some major overlaps, of course.

And finally, where did these different interpretations meet?

That's a great question.

I think, you know, at the end of the day, my job as a cinematographer is not to, like, have the vision for the film, but to elevate the director's vision with my vision.

And I think I take my skill set and.

Which is, you know, I think focusing and elevating the emotion, capturing faces, faces within spaces.

Right.

I think all those things are the duty of a cinematographer.

So I just lean into that as much as I can.

And for me, it's all about the words on the page, but also the people in the space.

And my favorite part of the filmmaking process really is production.

I am not a big.

I don't love prep.

Truthfully, I don't love prep, and that's because I think there's a lot of work to be done in prep.

But every time I feel like me and maybe many other filmmakers come to a point where all you want to do is be on set and press the button, you know, you just want to start rolling.

And so my favorite part of prep is actually the dreaming phase is to be spending time with the filmmakers and checking out locations and just imagining what could be, what if we did this?

Well, how about that?

And, you know, you always have the blueprint of the script, and you always start from that, like, you know, 0.0 or 0.1.

And then you slowly make your steps throughout.

But I always find that my more fruitful phases of prep have been standing in a space with a director and thinking like, oh, man, well, if the camera moved through this, it'd be really beautiful.

Or if we do this, that'll be really beautiful.

So I think all I have to say is I'm very inspired by the reality of the moment.

And so I think for me, as a dp, as I'm there to elevate a vision, I think I step into a set and me and the director will sort of look at what's intended and whether that meaning what's shot listed, storyboarded on paper, on the script, et cetera.

Then we do some blocking, and then I see many things in my head, and our communication side will then be like, well, how do we take this and go into this avenue?

Or can I suggest, what if we pull the camera back and actually go on a longer lens, or vice versa, go wider and closer?

And all these things are sort of elements of my perspective and what I see and feel inspired by in the moment that then meet different sort of elements that Ryan is bringing and Ariel is bringing.

And then, you know, I really enjoy this analogy that, like, filmmaking is sort of the cross section of curiosity and intention.

And as long as you meet those two in the middle with an openness, but also a decisiveness of it has to be right, it can't be wrong, but you leave room for the other things.

I think you find something really, really.

I don't know, like, more than you ever could have imagined it to be.

A lot of the time.

Yeah.

But with a story like this, which is, of course, it's very own, but can be to a point compared to this Lynchian type.

Sure.

Storytelling.

So.

And with that, of course, you must have questions about the story as well, but at the same time, how much do you want to understand it?

Is there a part of it that you maybe don't want to understand?

That much.

Yeah.

So that.

That can somehow translate into your cinematography?

Or is it more like it's part of the technical side of things?

I gotta know it all.

I think, you know, the way this film was made was very unique because we shot it.

You know, the movie takes place in the turning of the season, so we shot it in, like, the spring and the fall, over the course of two and a half years, nights and weekends, whenever we could afford it.

Just like Ryan and Ariella, they really, you know, did so much for this movie.

Maxed out credit cards, worked multiple jobs, emptied their life savings to make this movie happen.

And so that came with this sort of cost of we can't keep a production going on for a month straight.

It had to just be pieced together.

All that being said, I think that style of filmmaking that we were sort of leaning into and more or less forced to do, you know, sometimes would get us a little bit confused about, like, where were we?

Or.

And both in there.

There's also times to, like, do rewrites on the script and et cetera.

So.

So the film had this very fluid, organic nature where we knew how it began and ended, and we had all these scenes and all these pieces, but we knew that the final piece would be something else entirely.

Because as the film changes, you know, throughout script writing phase, production phase and post, so do we as people, and so do our ideas and conceptions.

And, you know, I'm a very different person than I was from the beginning of that movie even till, like, when we just finished editing the movie and then, you know, considering going into the festival run that we had this amazing festival run.

I'm a different person because of that.

And now the movie's finally come out.

We're all different people.

So all to say is that just as we change as people, I think the story flowed and changed and the way we made it float and change.

And so there is an element of not always being 100% in the know.

And I think that meant some.

Some locations we didn't get to scout before shooting or some things that we were going into, as far as, like, we're gonna shoot the scene this way, it actually didn't work anymore, you know.

And so all I have to say, I think as a cinematographer, you have to know your script and you have to know your story.

But I also think that filmmaking for me is actually, as I grow more into my career, I become way less interested in answers than I have become interested in questions and going deeper in the question.

I think there's an element to that idea that I think kind of lend itself towards gazer a little bit where, you know, we would try to do a thing or we would shoot something and we weren't quite sure how it was going to work, but we.

We found a way to make it work or things became something different than intended and none of us could have ever expected in the moment.

You know, I don't think we started day one thinking it was going to take this long or that it was going to lead to this much struggle and headache, or that it would have this much change throughout the process.

But we also didn't think that it would ever go to the Cannes Film Festival.

We didn't think that it would ever get a theatrical release.

We hoped for these things.

But I think there's a beauty in sort of taking the jump into the great abyss a little bit and letting it take you on this journey.

And I don't think many of us would take the journey if it was always about knowing exactly what was happening.

Yeah, this is exactly why I asked this.

And yeah, it shows.

And I 100% mean that as a compliment.

So, yeah, thank you.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

And yeah, as you've said by now multiple times, the film was shot over two years on nights and weekends.

I'm sure this is not a one of a kind thing.

And yet this extended production schedule is unique.

What creative compromises or rather unexpected innovations emerged from shooting a feature in such an unconventional time frame?

Yeah, I think the, you know, we were really inspired by the way Christopher Nolan made his first movie where he shot on black and white, I think, every weekend for six months or whatever it was.

And we kind of wanted, like a similar ish approach, but we also wanted to elevate it a little bit.

I love that film and I think it's an amazing film.

You know, we wanted to have a little more production value.

We wanted to have a little more stakes and a slightly larger sense of scope to the movie within our sort of limited capacity.

We did what we could and pushed it in that way.

In Means of, like, we really worked hard to try to find great locations that didn't cost anything, or we committed to shooting on film, but we knew that meant we were limited to like one to two, maybe three takes at most, and we had to just move on.

Everything had to be meticulously storyboarded and shot listed and et cetera.

We had to work with a limited lighting package, limited lensing, limited everything.

And so really, once you lean into those limitations, I think you yield really exciting innovation.

One of the biggest benefits, I think, of shooting the film in the way we did is, you know, so many films now, micro budget or low budget features, they have to be shot in 18 days, 19 days, 21 days, etc.

Everyone feels lucky they can get, you know, 25 days on a low budget movie now.

But because of the way that we shot it over the course of these two years on weekends, we actually ended up with about like 32 or 33 production days, which, you know, when you think about it, like, not many indie movies are getting that anymore, at least in this budget scale, you know.

And one other thing that was kind of smart on our end was any of the equipment that we needed to rent.

We owned most of the gear that we used, like lighting and a camera and accessories internally, but we had to rent lenses and some other extraneous gear because we shot on weekends over holiday breaks sometimes.

Too often those rentals cost one day, you know, and so we just sort of leaned into how do we make this as smartly and as efficiently as possible.

So I think in those ways there's a lot of innovation.

We were editing the film as we're shooting it.

So, you know, we would finish shooting whether it was a weekend or two or if we knew we had three weekends in a row, we would just do those.

And then whenever we could afford it again, sometimes it was a month or two later we sent our film out for dailies because we had no dailies.

Every day we would just send them out.

We could afford them.

Sometimes we would shoot and not see anything for two or three months.

But that was actually really not encouraging.

But it was really like confident building because I would see the scans and I'd be like, oh, I'm actually not nervous anymore because I get to see them and I feel really confident in our ability to do this thing.

And once we got our scans back, we would slowly start editing the movie.

Over the course of shooting that, we would then be like, oh, actually, we're missing this beat here.

We can go back and get this shot, or actually, I think we need to reshoot this scene because something now changed dramatically within the story for our character.

Let's go back.

And because, like I said, we were leaning into as many free locations as possible.

I think actually stretching it out over an amount of time made it a little bit easier to call the gas station, say, hey, can we come back one more time?

Or to call this person who owned this apartment and say, hey, can we use your bedroom yet again?

Because it wasn't this like crazy, hectic, 20 day shoot where if one day falls through, the whole thing's messed up.

We sort of approached it like a bunch, a series of short films almost.

Yeah.

And in terms of consistency, to what extent did you have to let go of it with so much time passing between weekends, with the seasons changing and everything and.

Yeah, and in what ways could you balance that out?

Yeah, that was.

I don't know.

That was.

It's funny, I have two thoughts about it and one way I want to say it was really difficult.

There were some scenes where we were shooting a part of them in April of 2021, and then we shot the other part of it in November of 2022.

And you know, you learn very quickly that the sun is in a different place or that the sun does a different thing, or, you know, there's even scenes within the film where one day we were shooting, it was really sunny, the next day was overcast, or even like the locations changed.

You know, even now in the film, there's a scene, the two scenes that take place at this warehouse, two very pivotal scenes in the movie.

And that warehouse is no longer standing, it's been demolished.

And a lot of the locations we shot at are currently being gentrified and changing.

And so there is this sort of very present heavy feeling of like the impermanence of things and the changing feeling and the fact that we're capturing something on film that's not gonna be there anymore one day.

And so all that to say, I think, you know, we leaned into the idea that let's try to be as consistent as possible.

I think for me that just meant like always reviewing the dailies and having stills ready on the day, we do like a light color grade just to know where we're coming from.

And also, you know, I would keep as many notes as possible of like, I shot this scene at a T4 and my meter was reading this.

And me, my gaffer would constantly talk about how do we keep this consistent, how do we do this?

And et cetera.

But there was also an element of letting go that we had to do that.

I can't control where the sun is going to be in April versus November.

All I can control is what I'm going to do about it.

Meaning, am I going to throw up some diffusion, am I going to try to block it differently, am I going to try to pick the right time of day, etc.

That's all I can have control over.

And there was also a big learning lesson in, like, it doesn't.

How do I put this lightly?

It doesn't fully matter.

Like, there's so many shots in films that I love where the key gets flipped.

You know, you go from the wide to the close up and the key's on the other side.

Or scenes in films where, you know, we're somehow in golden hour for, like, four scenes straight.

And you're like, it doesn't technically make sense, but it's about the emotion of it, you know?

And I think I'm a big believer of, like, emotionally correct is better than technically correct.

And I think you just sort of march forward with that mentality and you truly believe that.

And, you know, I do think shooting on film actually helps mold that over a little bit.

Hard light on film is just a little more graceful and a little more sweet.

And the texture and the way it absorbs colors and its beautiful gradients, I think actually help sort of mold all these things that we didn't have control over into.

The one thing I did have control over, which was how I expose and shoot the negative.

Yeah.

And thanks for the segue, because.

Yeah, not to mention you shot on film despite not only the unorthodox schedule, but also the tight budget.

Yeah.

Of course, it was a mutual decision to shoot on film.

But when it became official, what goes through your head?

Are you first panicking and then excited, or first excited and then panicking?

Yeah.

You know, it's funny, a lot of people, I've done some other interviews or talk with folks, and they said like, oh, man, you must have had to do a lot of convincing to get them to shoot on film.

And the truth is, from the very first meeting Ryan and I ever had, he told me, we're going to shoot this on film.

And I almost didn't have a choice.

I say that jokingly, but I think there was this thing where he was like, matt, I am committed to film, and this movie has to be done on film.

Are you down with that?

And I said, yes.

And what's funny is when I said yes, I actually I hadn't had that much experience with film.

I shot maybe music videos or a couple of shorts or mixed media stuff, but never my first feature on film.

And I said, yes, and I was incredibly excited.

But I knew that my work was cut out for me and that I had to jump in and do the work and study and research and.

And just do as much as I can to.

To really elevate the thing.

Because I knew it was important to Ryan and Ariella.

And I said, well, if it's important to you and it's important to me, and let's really make this happen.

And you know what?

And maybe early on, like, early, early days, before we ever got to day one, there's maybe some conversations of, like, well, we have some scenes that are, you know, like, shooting out in the middle of nowhere where there is no artificial light or et cetera.

And I was like, oh, do we do some of those on digital?

I don't know.

And we, like, briefly talked about it, but very quickly it was like, no, let's commit.

And, you know, we did a lot of research into, like, pushing the film stock.

And also the film has a very natur.

Naturalistic feel.

But we're not afraid to push the naturalism into being slightly more elevated, quote, unquote, or surreal or something, just to give us a fighting chance of how to expose.

And then, you know, then we leaned into it.

We leaned into, like, what was naturally happening.

And I think through this process of doing it on film and doing a movie, you know, of this budget scale, with this size crew of this timeline on film, with a lot of night exteriors, and, you know, I only push the film for our sort of dream sequence, nightmare scenes, and in the one sequence where there's a parked car at night in the meadowland.

That's all I'll say.

Those are the only sequences where I push film.

Everything else we shot at regular processing, even the night scenes.

And I think it gave me a great sense of understanding and confidence to see that I could shoot those scenes in lower exposure and still get a clean negative that looks, I think, beautiful and also raw in many ways.

And I think that the commitment to film was also a commitment to the power of choice.

The second that filmmakers lose the ability to choose what they shoot on and how they make their movies, we all lose, whether it's film or digital.

So I think it was a commitment to the craft.

It was a commitment to the idea and the belief of choice, but it was also a commitment to each other.

It was like, I Am committing to you and the fact that you want to shoot film and you going to commit to me and the fact that we're going to research and we're going to do our best and we're going to find a way to elevate this thing.

And it was, you know, and in many ways, maybe on paper, the dumbest decision we could have made financially.

But I think on a whole, I think it was the best decision we made.

I think it really speaks to the spirit of Gazer, not only visually and tonally and aesthetically how the film comes across, but I think, you know, it's been a big talking point for a lot of conversations and press or whatever.

People are like, how did you do this?

No less on film.

And I'm happy we made that decision and I'll do it again.

Yeah, but I mean, shooting on film is a pretty good base or place to begin with the aforementioned consistency.

Exactly.

All we had was two film stocks, 200T and 500T.

I can't change the white balance.

I can't go in and adjust little settings.

There's no whatever, like.

And in a way it almost strips away.

It's funny because I talk about the power of a choice.

But committing to tungsten film stock, we shot the whole movie, 90% of the movie, on two lenses.

Except for a couple zooms or maybe some wides.

It sort of locks you into like, well, we're shooting 200T on a 14 millimeter ultra 16 in the daylight.

It's 24 frames a second.

It's a 180 shutter.

I can't change anything.

All I can change is the ND filters that I use, the way that I like, the way that I lean into color.

Obviously the color grade, you can do so much with film.

But it was a beautiful sort of like tests or learning experience or educational experience whatever of just like limiting yourself to just a few options and seeing what can I do with this.

And.

And this movie is a testament to that.

Have you shot on film since?

Oh yeah, shot.

Shot quite a bit on film.

And my next feature that I'm doing in May and June is on film.

And the next movie that Ryan Arielle and I working on will also be on film.

Oh yeah.

Hell yeah.

Yeah.

And another thing you've talked about is change and how people are changing through these different processes.

Given everything you've shared and me having seen the film, it's clear that shooting Gazer involved a wide range of experiences and emotions.

But looking back on it as a whole, did it shift or change your perspective on cinematography both as an art form and as a career?

Yeah, it did.

It really did.

I think the biggest things I would say it shifted within me is this idea that you don't need much to do a lot, you know, and whether that means crew size, whether that means money or lighting, et cetera, I think it showed me that, you know, you actually can shoot a nighttime scene at 500 isobies.

People do all the time.

But you can do it without needing big condors or big maxi brutes or whatever.

Like you can do it with just a couple of LEDs and really crafty decision making.

I think it showed me the power of sort of embracing limitations and how that affects my cinematography.

I think it also gave me the set confidence of like, how do I, you know, bring this approach to digital?

People think that there's.

You approach film and digital in different ways.

To me, I think we should never let the format dictate the way we work or the, the discipline or whatever.

Like, I like to be just as disciplined with rehearsals and shooting and et cetera on digital as I am with film.

And I think shooting on film and the process of Gazer really brought that out to me.

Like, I don't enjoy when directors are like, let's just keep the camera rolling.

I, I typically will, you know, call for a cut or ask for a cut and let's reset it and give everyone their proper marks and rehearse it if we have to.

And I remember I had an old life mentor, a family member once, tell me, like, my father comes from the masonry construction world and building and building homes and I always heard the term measure twice, cut once, you know, and I try to bring that with me to filmmaking in many ways.

So I think that really changed my outlook on cinematography.

I think as well, I really just learned about, you know, the value of putting it all on screen as much as you can.

I'm a big believer of obviously union rights and making sure people are taken care of, being compensated fairly.

But I'm also like, how do we get, you know, the most amount back on the screen to elevate the project?

And I think that's, you know, made my producer brain speaking a little bit.

Coming from the gazer world more than anything.

I think having done a feature on film, doing another feature on film soon, couple other features now.

Since it's funny, since shooting Gazer, I've been doing way, way more couple other features on digital.

It showed to me that I, as a cinematographer, I am not bound to the format, I am not bound to the limitations.

You know, it's the wizard, not the wand, it's the painter, not the paintbrush.

And to me, you know, I've worked on digital and film, and when people say, like, what do you prefer?

Whatever, I truly have no preference.

It's really, what does the story require?

Do we have the support to make it happen?

Because if you tell me we want to shoot on film, but we're only going to buy 10 rolls of film, obviously we can't make that happen.

But the same with digital, it's like, we're going to do digital, but we got to shoot this in this many days.

It's like, well, we need the support.

At the end of the day, for me, the thing that I learned from doing this is that I do have the confidence that was always within myself that I just needed to exercise and sort of put through the wringer with this, like, really ambitious, really tough project and see the results on the other side.

That I learned that it's not the camera I shoot on, it's not the lenses, it's not the film or the digital, it's the story, it's the collaborators, and it's what I can bring to the table.

And really all that comes down to is, like, how do I connect with this and how much do I care about it?

And I think that's probably the biggest thing that I learned about myself and cinematography as a whole.

You know, like I said before, you don't need that much to do a lot, and you just have to sort of be quick on your feet and be open to everything, and then, you know, at the same time, give yourself the room and opportunity to grow and to learn so that when those, you know, small studio projects come in, or those on stage work, movies come in, you're ready for that, too.

That's why I admire someone like a Robbie Ryan so much with.

You know, he'll make these very naturalistic, beautiful movies with Andrea Arnold and Ken Loach, and then does these sort of in between movies with Noah Baumbach, still leaning towards the naturalistic, and then goes off the rails with Yergos Lanthimos.

And you're like, yeah, this is.

This is someone who is adaptable to everything, but almost approaches it all kind of the same way.

And that's what I learned about myself and my cinematography, making Gazer.

Well, thanks once again.

Thank you so, so much for your time, and I can't wait for more people to see Gazer and your future projects.

Thank you, my friend.

Incredibly excited.

Thank you.

I appreciate you having me.

I love the show, and so many friends have been on here, and it's inspiring to join their ranks.

So thank you for having me.

Absolutely.

Let's do this in the future as well, please.