My saddle and I just sprinted just to make sure I made it to the run because I was determined to cross that finish line.

I don't think I would have forgiven myself for not fighting that day, and just because of how much time and years and work went into it, I was determined to get there.

So obviously it's the run.

At that point, it wasn't really racing.

I was trying to take it in.

I was trying to run as fast as I could given the situation Foreign.

Hello and welcome to the December 27, 2024 edition of the Tridock Podcast.

I'm your host, Jeff Sankoff, the Tridock an emergency physician, triathlon coach and multiple Ironman finisher coming to you as always from beautiful sunny Denver, Colorado.

This is of course the final episode of the year and I wanted to take a moment to look back on what has been another successful 12 of this program and for triathlon in general.

In 2024, this program saw continued growth in listenership and for that I have to thank all of you who have continued to spread the word by sharing your affection for the program with others.

And to those of you who have left ratings and reviews wherever you get the podcast, we got a ton of interesting questions from a lot of you by email or in the Facebook group and we worked hard to answer as many of them as possible.

On the Medical Mailbag segment today, Juliet and I will look back at that and comment on what we found most interesting, most surprising, and what we learned along the way.

Triathlon 2 also thrived this year.

While the PTO continues kind of to lurch along from one self inflicted wound to another in its quest to figure out exactly what it is going to be, it still managed to put on a few entertaining and high quality events in the form of the T100.

Whether or not that continues and in what form remains to be seen, but there is no doubt that its mere existence led to the very successful and in my mind much more entertaining Ironman professional series that played out over the course of 2024.

From Oceanside all the way to Taupo or Taupa.

Whatever comes to pass in the long term, professional racing seems to look really solid for the short to medium term.

Anyways, speaking of Toba, as you know, I had the great fortune to find myself racing there just a couple of short weeks ago and I dare say that it was one of the better 70.3 championships that I've had the pleasure to participate in.

Sadly delayed for four years because of the pandemic New Zealand did not disappoint with an incredible venue, very challenging course, and an incredibly welcoming community.

If you have ever thought about trying to qualify or participate in one of these events, I can tell you that it is very well worth it.

The scale of these events is really something else and being out there participating in them is a very special feeling.

I know that there are many who feel, perhaps maybe a little cynically, that the World Championship is kind of a huge cash grab by Ironman, and I am not going to pretend that this is not a part of it, but the reality is that for athletes it truly is one of those times that you get what you pay for.

Yes, it is an expensive race and yes it can be costly to travel to, but if you have the means, and I understand that is not everyone, it does make for an incredible experience and one that I have enjoyed immensely every time that I have had the good fortune to qualify for and be able to go to.

I personally am already looking forward to November of 2025 in Morbella where I have secured my slot and I know that I am not alone in that.

Let me know if you want to know more about the experience.

I'd be happy to share stories about this year and my previous years of participation.

The last thing I want to comment on as a major story in 2024, and this is something that you will likely hear me speak about again going into the new year is the major change going on in triathlon coaching, precipitated by the outright takeover of Ironman University by a certain AI coaching company whose name sounds a lot like the name of this podcast.

When that company signed its deal with Ironman, it essentially became a tsunami in coaching, decimating independent coach by forcing them to either join that company or essentially go out of business.

Athletes signing up for any Ironman event are inundated with offers of free coaching trials with the company and told that they can participate in free research wherein they receive coaching if only they give away all of their personal data for three months to inform the ongoing AI model.

Look, I'm not going to lie, I'm very impressed by the aggressive business model that this company has taken and I have no doubt that they are being exponentially successful because of it.

At the end of the day, though, I remain convinced that they are not providing athletes with the best possible service because no matter what AI is capable of, it still cannot replace a human coach who provides so much more to an athlete.

Will an AI program hold an athlete accountable?

Can an AI model answer questions about why a workout is designed the way it is or is on the day it is planned for?

Can the model discuss nutrition and race strategy?

Can the model account for an athlete's other life responsibilities, answer questions about the specific race that an athlete wants to do, and give tips about where to stay in a host city?

I'm pretty sure the model cannot congratulate the athlete for successes nor review performances for opportunities for the next go around.

Those are things that are all much better handled by an actual live human coach.

And as to the assertion that this particular company can provide you with a coach, is it really your coach if they don't have anything to do with creating and implementing your training plan?

Look, I'm not a Luddite.

I know that technological advances can be meaningful and important in a lot of aspects of our lives, and I embrace many of them.

However, I also know that as a physician, we will never be able to replace the importance of human contact in making a diagnosis or providing compassionate care.

And as a coach, I know that what I offer in terms of experience and as a caring mentor to my athletes is just not going to be emulated by an AI model, no matter how much slick advertising is backing it up.

So as you look forward to 2025, if you are considering your first ever coach or maybe a new coach, I urge you to think twice before signing over the rights to your personal data and just giving your goals to an AI model.

There are many highly successful, personable, compassionate and incredibly qualified human coaches out there who will take you much further than any computer will, and do so with much more personal fulfillment, myself included.

Treat yourself to that indulgence, the indulgence of human intelligence and all that comes with it.

On the show today.

As I mentioned earlier, the Medical Mailbag has a review of all of the topics that we covered in 2024.

Juliet Hockman and I talk about what we learned and what surprised us, and that is going to be coming right up later.

I am joined by US Olympic triathlete Kirsten Casper.

Kirsten fought through three Olympic cycles before finally being selected to compete in Paris this year, where things came a little bit undone on the slick cobblestoned bike course.

Despite that, she finished with a smile on her face and the continued desire to compete.

She talks to me about her Olympic dreams and about her future plans, and that conversation is coming up in just a little while.

Before we get to all of that, I want to take my customary moment to thank all of my Patreon supporters of this podcast who have decided that for about the price of a cup of coffee per month.

They could sign up to support this program and in doing so get access to bonus interviews and other segments that come out about every month or so.

Those bonus episodes are available on a private feed for all my subscribers.

Plus for North American subscribers who sign up at the $10 per month level of support, they receive a special thank you gift in the form of a pretty cool BOCO Tridock podcast running hat that I am showing right now on the YouTube feed if you're watching on video.

If you're not, you'll just have to imagine it's pretty awesome.

Anyways, you can visit my Patreon site today@patreon.com trydockpodcast to see what's involved and become a supporter and maybe get access to this cool gift as well.

And as always, I thank you in advance just for considering.

It is December 27, it is the final medical mailbag of the year and we have a special treat for you.

Juliet Hockman, my colleague, my friend, how are you on this final weekend of the year 2024?

I am doing so well.

I had a great little brick or big brick workout this morning in the pouring cold rain, but now it's over so I get to be inside for the rest of the day.

My adult children are coming home for the holidays so I am really excited.

It is a good time of year for family getting back together.

My oldest is back from Edmonton.

We are going to be spending some quality time together as well.

We are recording this just before Christmas, but it will be coming out on the 27th and that will be the last weekend of 2024.

And we thought that rather than tackling a new subject, we would do a look back of sorts at the 26 episodes that came out this year.

We had a lot of really interesting topics that we discussed this past year and we wanted to review them for you, our listeners, in order to discuss some of the things that we thought were particularly interesting, talk about some of the things that we found that worked, some of the things that we found that maybe didn't, and give you an opportunity to give us some feedback as to whether or not you tried any of these things, what resonated with you and where you find yourself at the end of 2024 heading into the new year.

So before we get to all of that, Juliet, when you looked back at the list of episodes that we did, do you have any thoughts as to what you think might have been our top downloaded episodes?

So there were three episodes that stood out in terms of the number of Downloads, and a couple of them are actually fairly recent.

One of them goes all the way back to beginning of the year.

Do you have any idea of what might have resonated most with our listeners?

Well, of course I am going to be completely biased towards the ones that are most interesting to me.

So I'm going to get these probably 100% wrong.

So.

But if I had to guess, I think the episode on alcohol and sleep might be one, the episode on body composition, because that's just always a touchy and interesting and it's just a topic then people talk about.

And then I'm split on the third one between body composition and the strength training episode.

Well, you said body composition twice.

I meant positive thinking.

The third would be between positive thinking and the strength training episode.

Okay, well, you got one of the three.

You got one of the three.

The number one episode this year was fueling for success and body composition.

And the guest on that program was Maya Watson.

And that one was about, I think it was a little bit more than 10% more downloads than any other episode this year.

And that was episode 156.

So it's the most recent of the episodes that did that performed as well as it did.

The second highest episode goes all the way back to January and It was episode 137 and it was on magnesium supplementation.

And the guest on that episode was Mark Evans and I thought that was particularly interesting.

I'm not that surprised at magnesium always percolating along as an interesting topic.

A supplement that people are continuously bandying about.

I think that pillar, which was the form of the supplement we discussed in that episode, had recently been foisted upon the North American populace.

And so I gather there was probably a lot of interest at that point.

And then the third most popular episode, and this doesn't surprise me at all, was episode 153 and it was the episode on doping.

So doping and triathlon.

The 10% question.

All three of those episodes were very highly downloaded.

And although we had several other episodes that were pretty close in terms of numbers, that one on body composition really stood out in terms of numbers.

When I looked back at our topics, I was able to split them into categories, as is pretty common.

We had a lot of episodes on supplements.

What was unusual though was almost all the supplements we talked about this year were natural substances.

Right.

We didn't have anything that was turmeric.

And ginseng and churrans.

Yep.

Collagen, medium chain triglycerides and cordyceps and all of these things.

That are basically derived from plants.

Yeah.

It was interesting to me that so many of the supplements and these were all things that were essentially asked about by listeners.

We also did only two devices this year, which is also unusual when I look back on the previous years, the firefly recovery and the pneumatic compression boots.

And for the supplements, we didn't really find any significant evidence that any of them did much.

Turmeric was the only one.

I think we found evidence that was.

Supported its intake.

But as you recall, we had.

There were some issues with it.

Right, right.

So the thing about turmeric was, with all of the things we found, none of them are gonna do harm, but they're also not going to enhance performance.

And with turmeric it was, yes, it might reduce, help reduce inflammation, but the quantity that you have to take to have that effect might be prohibitive.

And also to make it bioavailable, you had to take it with something else.

And that was usually some kind of black pepper extract, which made it somewhat difficult or unwieldy to put into your smoothie, for example.

Yes, but that was definitely.

Turmeric was the one that had the best evidence to support it.

The devices, the firefly recovery, the pneumatic compression boots, neither of them had overwhelming evidence to support their claims.

But as we both agreed at the time, again, no harm, if they made you feel good, that was worth it.

And if you felt it was worth it to you, then by all means, we didn't have a problem with that.

Right, right.

And then on the.

And then I had a big category of catch all things for miscellaneous, and there was a host of them, and several of them actually did have evidence that we felt were.

Was worth discussing.

We'll go over a few of those in a second.

But when you look back on the year past, which you mentioned alcohol and sleep, so obviously that was one that kind of resonated with you.

Why was one of interest to you?

Well, I guess I would back up one step to say that I'm not a big supplement person.

And so all of the supplements that we covered were.

They were interesting to me.

I guess if there had been a silver bullet like last year with the black with the tart cherry juice, then I would have been more interested.

But because I don't tend to go down the supplementation rabbit hole, I was like, yeah, okay.

Another one that we're.

The world is spending a lot of money on that we don't need to.

But the ones, I guess the couple that stood out to me a little Bit were the ones that either very relative to me or sorry, relevant to me or those that I thought, oh, okay, this is something I can immediately change.

And when we talked about alcohol and sleep, it was like mid February and the days are really short and it's getting dark at 5pm or whatever.

And I remember thinking at that point, oh gosh, I'm increasing my alcohol intake, I'm having wine kind of several times a week, et cetera.

And I know as a 57 year old woman that that alcohol isn't interrupting my sleep.

But to have you spell it out so succinctly in terms of all of these studies that show it over and over again, it was, yeah, Juliet, come on, you don't really need a glass of wine at 5:30 every day.

So that was allowed an immediate change.

That's easy.

And then the other two that really spoke to me is obviously I love hearing that increased fitness can help fight the breast cancer.

Right, that's what we want to hear.

All this training that women are doing is, is good for us in the long run.

So that's just what we call that.

Confirmation bias, affirmation bias, something like that.

Yeah, yeah.

And then the last thing that I always love talking about with you is the whole concept of positive thinking and the effect that has on the way we approach training and racing.

Yeah, I enjoyed all of the ones that you just mentioned and they all resonated with me as well.

They.

I remember being surprised about the positive thinking one, not, not that it, the extent to which it was effective.

And I remember being particularly struck by obviously Roger Federer's words and that's what brought the subject up and led to us discussing it.

But also just thinking about how we can have such an influence of mind over body just by exercising that in our training and then bringing that to our races.

And the alcohol thing, I think it's important just to mention alcohol.

What we talked about in that episode was that drinking alcohol at night shortened the period from going to bed to going to sleep.

So it actually led, you led to your falling asleep quicker.

The problem is it really interfered with the quality of sleep and it interfered with the duration of sleep.

So while you would fall asleep quicker, you ended up sleeping with less quality and less amount of time.

Net negative drinking effects on sleep.

The other ones that I think were, as you say, confirmation bias.

I think for me, strength training and its impact on endurance sport, not the first time we've talked about that on this program.

You and I are both big adherents to that and I think that it was nice to find evidence that actually showed that being a stronger triathlete made you a faster triathlete and a more resilient triathlete.

It's still hard to really know whether or not strength training decreases the incidence of injuries or severity of injuries.

We think it does, but there's no heart of it evidence that it does.

I wouldn't be surprised.

And then the other one was biomechanics and running.

That's something that both of us, as coaches, are continuously telling our own athletes.

And I thought that it was particularly interesting to get really into the details of that.

And I'm always amazed how sometimes we come into this with a question and we're like, I wonder if the biomechanics influence running.

And then you get into these papers and they're so granular, like getting right down to where are you landing and how are you taking off and what are you wearing?

And it's really fascinating when you really look that you can find so much detail and find things that are really helpful for us to answer the question.

It's really nice.

Are there any subjects that you were surprised?

I know there was a couple for me that I was surprised.

I'm always surprised when you and I talk, both online and offline, about the concern about doping in the age group ranks.

Yeah.

And I know that your belief is that it does happen in male age groupers and the extent to which you think about that, as opposed to the way I think about it, which is not much, but.

So that's always a really interesting conversation that you and I have ongoing in terms of, is this a problem in our sport?

So that just surprises me because I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it, and obviously many people do.

And so that in itself is interesting to me.

Yeah, just to stop on that for a second, because the thing that I came away from that episode was really, I was impressed with Jim Vance and his sort of take on it and giving this idea that, look, if there's a drug out there that's making somebody's quality of life better, and it just so happens to be banned, does that mean that it's wrong for someone to be using that medication?

And I thought that was a really interesting perspective, and I respected what he was saying.

I heard from several people after that episode aired that they disagreed with that, that they thought that that was a kind of crutch that people were likely using to say, oh, yeah, my life is so much better since I started taking this.

But in reality, Their life is so much better because their performance is better, which, you know, I don't know what the true answer is.

And having just come back from a world championships where you see these incredible results from incredible athletes, no doubt incredible athletes, but you can't help but wonder if any of them are getting an assist again.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it because there's nothing I can do about it.

And it's not going to change the fact that I go out and race clean and do my very best and I get my result and I'm happy with it, but it's there.

It's there.

Were there any other episodes that you found surprising?

The last one we did on the fungus, only because you sent me down the rabbit hole of that nature video on the ants, which I just can't unsee now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, they're all.

The other ones, they're always really interesting.

And again, the ones that feel more relevant to you or to me, positive thinking is always one that I love thinking about.

We talked a little bit about muscle typology and how that might or might not affect an athlete's success in endurance sport.

What about you?

Were there some that really grabbed you that you keep thinking about?

Yeah, there was a couple that I still continued to ruminate on.

One of them was the question of whether there is a difference in decline in performance as we age by gender.

This notion that perhaps women would see a slower decline than men.

I thought that was a really interesting hypothesis and the fact that it wasn't borne out in the evidence.

It was also interesting to me.

I didn't know what I expected going into that.

That was one that I honestly didn't know what the answer would be.

And when I saw that the answer was no, they decline at the same rate.

One gender does not decline any faster than the other.

That was.

That was nice to see because I think there's a lot of women who believe that post menopause they're going to decline faster than men will.

And what we saw from those papers is that, no, in fact, that's not true.

Women decline at basically the same rate as men do, which I thought was great.

But I also thought it was interesting that I may have had this subconscious feeling that women actually declined less than men.

And they don't.

So they declined at the same rate, which is interesting.

The other one that I remember being interested in was the notion of antihistamines.

When we reviewed that, I went into that thinking that it was an odd question that we had been asked, I was like, antihistamines, why would antihistamines?

And then, sure enough, antihistamines had an important effect on training and racing.

And I thought that was particularly interesting.

And then there were other assorted things that we talked about that I thought were just kind of general interest.

It didn't really change anything, like you said, but this idea of mortal hydration and how that was going to change on course, fueling the discussion we had about the different types of salts used in different kinds of nutrition drinks, we really covered a broad breadth of subject matter.

And that is entirely a credit to our listeners who submitted the vast majority of the questions that we answered this year.

And I am we have already lined up for the next several episodes questions that have been submitted that we look forward to answering.

And so this is an opportunity for me to appeal once again to all of our listeners.

If you are finding yourself wondering about something and it doesn't have to be about these things, it doesn't have to be about a device or a supplement or a specific question about a medication.

It can be about an injury.

I used to, when I first started doing the podcast, I would get questions about things like Morton's neuroma or knee sprains, and that is 100% fair game.

So if you find yourself struggling as, let's say, friend of the podcast, Triathlon Joe Wilson recently fractured his collarbone and he may have, he may or may not have reached out to me to ask some advice about the best way to rehab that.

And I may or may not have suggested getting that surgically repaired based on my understanding of the literature.

That was something that I had reviewed on an early episode and is a great example of an injury that we have discussed in earlier versions of the Medical Mailbag.

So if you have questions related to any of these things, an injury, an overuse problem, a supplement, a device, whatever it is, please take advantage in 2025.

Send it in by email to triodocloud.com or join the private Facebook page for the Try Talk podcast.

Search for TryDoc podcast on Facebook.

Answer the three easy questions.

I'll gain you admittance.

You can ask your questions there.

You can join the conversation about the various episodes that come out as they come out, and I would love to have the opportunity to answer any questions that you might have in 2025.

Before we continue our conversation, I do want to finish answering the question that listener Arturo Ruiz submitted to me privately.

We answered the first part of his question.

He had answered a two part question the first was, how do we manage travel when we are traveling to races?

What hacks did we have?

And the second question, and we addressed that in the medical mailbag in the last episode.

And the second part of his question was, how do we manage training when we're traveling?

And I know Juliet and I both do a lot of travel.

We travel with.

I travel with my family.

Juliet travels with her husband.

And yet when we travel, we still manage to get our training done because it's important to both of us.

We are in different situations.

Juliet's husband is quite active.

He does not train at the level that Juliet does, but they still are able to find balance so that she can get her training done.

I have a son who is obviously a very active athlete.

My daughter is also an active athlete, but she's a pole vaulter, so it's not like she's bringing a pole along and doing any vaulting while we're traveling.

But my wife is not an athlete.

And so how do I get things done when we're traveling?

Juliet, I'll get you to answer first.

How do you manage training when you're on vacation?

The very first thing I do when I know a trip is organized and literally the minute I buy tickets is I put it in my training piece.

Even if it's months and months out, I will put it in my training peaks.

My coach know I'm traveling on such and such a day.

This is what I'll have available to me.

This is when my flights actually go.

So, yes, I can work out in the morning and then the flight goes in the evening or whatever it is.

And then I am very specific, will be able to swim, run, strength, whatever we'll be able to.

Peloton will be.

So I give very specific instructions.

And so the.

My coach can help build a training block around my travel.

So that's the first thing I do.

If I didn't have a coach and I had to do this myself or even with a coach, I am very proactive about knowing what I will have available.

Okay, I.

I'm near this park, so I can go running in this park.

I have access to this hotel gym.

I look online at pictures of the gym or I call the hotel and find out what they have there.

Do they have weights, they have a treadmill, they have a peloton.

What do they have?

I.

There is a.

There are a number of very good websites that tell you where the pools are.

You can search by zip code, you can search by city, and then it just takes a couple Phone calls to confirm the lap times of that pool.

Are they open early in the morning for lap time?

How about the evening?

So it takes a little bit of homework ahead of time, but it's like anything else in triathlon.

It's just super organization.

Right.

And then I will go ahead and knowing maybe it's a business trip, maybe it's a camp like you and I have had to co check before.

Maybe it's a family trip.

Whatever it is, I will make sure that those sessions get in around everything else.

So if meetings start at 8am Am I going to have time to get to the pool?

Does the lap start at 5am I gonna have time to get back, et cetera.

How am I gonna get there?

Is there Uber?

Is there a hotel bike?

Am I renting a car?

Like just really super planning it out.

I know I get stressed when I don't get my training in.

I also am grumpy and I feel angry at the world if I don't get a certain amount of training in.

So it's helpful to me, it's helpful to my travel partner and it makes sure that all of the goals of that trip, which are outside of training, get accomplished.

I remember going on an extended family trip a couple of years ago to a small place, a small island off the coast of Rhode island called Block Island.

And it was about five weeks before the 70.3 World Champions Championships.

And if you look at my Strava, I went around that island four times over and over again to be able to get in these longer rides.

And it was before everybody else got up.

I was done by 8 o'clock.

And so in the first loop you see the sunrise.

On the second loop you see the people at the big hotel come out and get their coffee.

On the third loop you can see the families with little kid.

So you just, you have to get it done so you don't interrupt whatever the objectives of that trip are.

So that's a lot.

What about you?

Yeah, I, I echo a lot of the things you mentioned.

I think it's worth reiterating the website to find pools.

If I'm traveling and I, I want to get swims done, I definitely use that website and I will put a link to that website in the show notes.

The other things are don't necessarily choose where I'm going on vacation to necessarily mesh up with training.

And that can make things more difficult.

For example, we do a lot of travel for scuba diving and not all scuba diving locations are really going to work well for training and the best example I have is most recently we were in French Polynesia and there just wasn't really great opportunities to do any training there.

Now, that being said, there are other places we've been that are perfect.

Bonaire, one of the Dutch Antilles, is a phenomenal island to run and to bike.

And so one of the things that I have invested in is a travel bike.

I have a bike that it's a regular road bike, but it has couplers in the frame so it comes apart and actually folds.

It doesn't fold, it actually comes apart and then all fits into a standard size suitcase.

So I don't need a bike case with me, it's just a square suitcase.

And I can get my bike and I can get my shoes and my pump and my water bottles and all that stuff into one suitcase.

So I have to bring one extra suitcase.

But then I have a regular bike that I can then ride when I get to where I'm going.

Now, the absolute biggest thing besides all of the prep work of knowing where we're going, knowing what's available, equipment wise, knowing what I'm going to be able to do, is the negotiations that have to take place with my wife because she wants to be on vacation, she wants me present, and I want to be present for my family.

And I have not always done the best job of making sure that my training fits in.

And part of the reason for that is because when you're on a diving vacation, it's very hard to do your training before diving because the diving happens quite early.

I end up trying to do my training in between the morning dives and the afternoon dives, which takes me away at lunchtime.

But always setting those expectations.

Look, I'm going to train one hour a day.

I'm going to do it at lunchtime, I will be around for the rest of the day, that kind of thing.

Usually there is an understanding and you just have to be very careful to continuously be checking in with your family and make sure that you're not getting in the way.

And listen, I'm the same.

I get grumpy, I get irritated, I get anxious if I'm not getting my training in.

But my wife gets grumpy and irritated and anxious if I'm over training and extending past what I say I'm going to do if I have to miss some training.

I have learned to default to miss some training because you know what?

At the end of the day, you're on vacation for a week or so.

And if you miss a few sessions it's not going to be the end of the world.

Ideally, you're not traveling like I just did two or three weeks before the world championships the way you did most of the time.

I try to make sure our travel is separated from races enough that I know if I'm going to miss a few sessions, it's not going to be the end of the world.

But you know what?

Life is life.

Triathlon is triathlon and I do triathlon to enhance my life.

My life is not the sport.

So we have to sometimes reframe things a little bit.

But art, I think, and anybody else is interested in this, it can be done.

It is of delicate balance.

Definitely having your family and spouse on board is hugely important.

And then like Juliet said, doing a lot of advanced sort of recon work, being very organized, very prepared, doing your best to get things done super early in the morning.

And yeah, you can definitely make it work.

You just have to scale it back a bit.

You're not going to be doing a 14 hour week when you're on vacation, but you can easily do a six or seven hour week and it can still be pretty high quality.

And I think a lot of it is just staying activated too.

I mean, we've done a couple of safari holidays and there's nothing you can do when you're on safari.

Yeah, you don't want to go for a run when you're on safari.

You can jump rope and do like calisthenics and that's about it.

And so if you get your 15 minutes of activation a day, that's it.

And all the other guests are looking at you like you're absolutely bonkers.

I think we had one such incident where like we got the safari guide to come and ride the jeep along with us.

We went out and back a mile three or four times and even that was scary.

Yeah, yeah.

So yeah, I think the big thing is bigger picture.

Like boy, when you're right in the meat of it, you think nothing can be more important than getting a specific sessions in, particularly if you're running up to a key race.

But I also now, I'm now getting to a place where if I at the end of my life, am I going to be remembering the time that I had with my family and my children and my extended family, or am I going to be remembering the fact that I missed that one key ride?

And we all know the answer to that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, I want to finish this segment on this final episode of the year, just with a few minutes to look back personally for you, Juliet, and for myself at some of the highlights of this year.

I know that for you it was a challenging year.

You dealt with a lot of injuries, you had surgeries, but you did have some important successes and I think some important milestones as well.

When you look back at 2024, when you look forward to 2025, what were the highlights of this past year and what is it that you're looking forward to in the new year?

So at this time last year I had an two surgeries.

Within the last four weeks I'd had a knee surgery and an Achilles surgery.

And so I was in a boot and doing a lot of sit ups because that was all I could do.

And so 2024 started very much non running at all.

I don't think I ran for the first four or five months of 2024 at all.

And so 2024 has been actually this amazing and so far, knock on wood rediscovery of running and so far anyway, being able to run in a fairly healthy manner.

So I got back to doing a couple triathlons by the end of the summer.

I did an Olympic length, I did 70.3 Washington and race really well there.

So you and I were both there.

It was a terrific race.

So ending the year on a bit of a high, feeling like, oh, I'm back, I'm not dead yet.

And then also throughout the year, just really taking advantage of gravel racing.

I did my first ever mountain bike race this year, which was a lot of fun.

So just continuing to think outside the box and challenge myself a little bit and take advantage of what, what present right here in my own backyard in terms of things that I can do with friends, easy day trips, whatever it is.

So I'm feeling incredibly fortunate.

As I look forward to 2025, I am thinking very hard about this idea of what really brings me happiness.

It brings me joy.

Is that going back and trying to be competitive at 70.3 worlds again or is that spending for that that time and those resources on a family trip that celebrates my 30th wedding anniversary and my husband's 60th birthday.

Like these are choices that all of us as triathletes go through every year.

I know that I will be doing my first ever trail running race in 2025.

I've already signed up for it.

I'll do more gravel riding.

I know I'll do 70.3 Oregon and Washington because those are local to me and I can't wait for you to come out again to Do Washington with me.

Yeah, I think that for me anyway, it's always reassessing and thinking from a 30,000 foot view on what is fun.

What makes me excited.

Is it rinse, repeat, which can be great, or is it.

No, I want to go.

Wow.

I really loved running at Smith Rock two weekends ago, which is a state park in central Oregon.

There's a race there.

I'm going to go try this race.

And that's the cool part of this, part of the year, right?

Is that we get to really think about, dream about what might happen in 2025.

Yeah.

What about you?

When I look back at this year, it was definitely a year of progression, a year of successes.

I definitely got an opportunity, work with a new coach, Lance Watson, same coach as yours, and got to really discover that I can call myself a runner at this point.

I am a runner.

Jeff Satan.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I had really solid half marathon results and more important to me ran really well in three different half Ironmans, including the World Championships, where I really was very proud of my run.

And to me that was probably the biggest sporting successes.

I would say that personally I enjoyed probably more than that, just the opportunities I had to ride with my son in a couple of different gravel events.

That really brought me great joy.

Seeing my son do as well as he did in cross country season and then my daughter discover pole vault as a passion and be really good at it was also very exciting and I'm excited to see both of them continue that progress in 25, as I look forward to 25 in terms of triathlon.

I am really excited to continue this segment with you on this podcast and to see what this podcast will do in 25 as it continues to grow and what kind of guests we will, I will have the opportunity to speak with.

That's always something I enjoy and who knows what other opportunities there will be.

I've already qualified for the World Championships in Marbella.

I am very much looking forward to that trip.

I enjoyed New Zealand so much.

Marbella is going to have very big shoes to fill, but I think that they will likely be up to the task and I'm looking forward to that.

But I'm also going to be with you again in Oregon and Tri Cities and my wife will be at both of those races this time.

So yeah, it's going to be.

Actually Sandra was there in Oregon last year, so she'll be in Oregon again and in Tri Cities this time as well.

Yeah, it's going to be a fun 2025.

I am looking forward to it, but I'm going to enjoy the current holiday season as I hope everybody else will.

And that's what we have for you for this year.

In review.

Juliette Hockman, I can't thank you enough for doing the medical mailbag with me for another year.

I am so looking forward to 2025 and keeping going with this excellent trend for all my listeners.

Once again, please you know how to reach us.

Send in your questions, any comments that you have.

We're always looking for feedback for now.

However, though, thank you for listening.

We look forward to having you along for the ride next year.

Juliet Happy Holidays.

Happy New Year.

Talk to you in 2025.

Can't wait.

My guest on the podcast today is.

An exceptional athlete and one of the most consistent performers in the world of triathlon, Kirsten Casper.

As a key member of Team usa.

Kirsten has represented her country on the global stage, earning multiple podium finishes in World Triathlon Series events and excelling in relay competitions.

Known for her versatility, resilience and strategic racing, Kirsten has carved out a remarkable career in a highly competitive sport that culminated this past summer with her inclusion on the U.S.

olympic triathlon team in Paris.

After an exceptionally grueling qualification period, I'm excited to dive into her journey, discuss her training philosophy, hear her insights on what it takes to compete at the highest level, and find out what is next for her now that the Olympics are behind us.

Welcome to the show, Kirsten.

Yeah, thank you for having me.

Absolutely.

It's a real pleasure to be here.

To finally make it on the show.

Yes, we've had it's been a long year for you and you've been very busy in all good ways.

So I'm glad that things have slowed down enough for us to connect at least.

Now tell me about your journey to the Olympics, because I know that was really when you look back on things, I can only imagine what that's going to mean to you in the future.

Just tell me about what that the last I know just from being friends with Matt, I should mention Kirsten is married to Matt Sharp, a friend of the podcast.

And so being friends with Matt and following along just how stressful that that was for you.

So tell us a little bit about that, about what that was like and then the culmination of actually being in Paris.

Sure.

I feel like that journey to qualify started honestly back in 2014 when I first entered triathlon and was recruited by USA Triathlon to the Collegiate Recruitment Program, which was a fully funded program where that had two of the three sports, and they wanted to give them the opportunity to see if they could make it at this top level.

And so that's when the goal of making Team USA for triathlon began.

I was the alternate for that Rio Olympics and then I was the alternate for the Tokyo Olympics.

So this past Olympic cycle, I was very determined to make it to Paris, having just narrowly missing the team twice.

A big part of that journey for me and what I think helped make me qualify or allow me to qualify was having my husband Matt be a part of it.

And like, his support, I really do believe made the difference for me and allowed me to get to this Olympic team because, oh man, the US Women is very competitive.

There was probably like at least seven of us that would have been capable of making this Olympic team and competing well at the Olympics.

So to earn one of the three spots really meant a lot and was a, yeah, a dream come true for sure.

And that process, honestly was over two years we had three qualification races, and then it actually came down to discretion.

So just your body of work over those two years is what the Olympic selection committee looked at.

Wow.

Being the alternate twice, like that is just the second time must have been way worse than the first.

But what does that mean, being the alternate?

You don't get to go, right?

Yeah.

The second time being the alternate was a lot worse because to be honest, being the alternate for Rio, I was like in my second year of being a professional triathlete and I was like, wow, I was that close.

That was exciting.

Like, I had no expectations to make the team.

It was just, oh, I can do this.

So going into Tokyo selection for the 2020 Olympics, I felt this pressure of I should qualify now that I've made it that close.

And yeah, that was a completely different Olympic preparation for me because I had this pressure I put on myself and I actually got very injured in 2019 and had a adductor tear that put me out for about six months leading into our Olympic qualification races.

And so I went from being second ranked American on the pathway to making this Olympic team to just getting to the start line.

And so that injury definitely changed my mindset.

It helped me, I think, for this Olympic qualification period, because I definitely didn't take lining up for granted.

I was grateful to get to that start line.

And it just shifted my mental approach and took every opportunity I could to try to showcase what I could do because I know sometimes when you're.

You don't know when you're gonna get injured.

And so I just try to line.

Up every time and achieving success on that after that disappointment probably just makes the success so much sweeter.

Oh, yes.

Yeah, absolutely.

And so I didn't, Sorry, travel to Rio for that Olympics, but for Tokyo, they actually brought the alternates over to Japan because it was a Covid Games.

If something was to go wrong, we had to be there regularly tested.

Right.

We couldn't travel last minute.

So I actually got to experience what it was like to be at Olympics but not participate in it.

And for me, that was amazing.

I learned so much from that.

And then I also got to see my husband, Matt Sharp, compete, which was icing on the cake for me.

Obviously, I wanted to make the Olympic team, but to be able to be part of his experience there, which I know not many people got to actually travel and be at that Tokyo Olympics, so that was pretty special.

And then it was.

The shoe was completely on the other foot this time around where Matt was not competing as an Olympian, but was there for you.

And tell us about your experience.

I know watching it at home, I was so excited.

Oh, actually, before I get there, you said two out of three sports in college, so what was the one you were missing?

Yeah, so I ran in college and I swam since I was five years old.

Oh, interesting.

Could have swam in college.

I decided to just focus on the one.

Like I was recruited for both, but I wanted to see what I could do with running only.

And so I had to swim in the run background.

And so cycling was what was.

Or like non draft racing was completely.

Or, sorry, excuse me, draft racing.

Draft legal was completely new to me.

Yeah, that must be hard to adjust to.

Yeah, I remember going for like my first three hour bike ride and that was a very big deal.

I do want to come back to the Olympic question in a second, but as a runner in college, I've spoken to other women who were runners in college and it's.

My son is a runner.

I talk about him all the time and I know he doesn't face the same kind of pressures that a lot of the women do.

And what was that experience like for you?

Yeah, I, Yeah, I had a good, A very good experience running in college.

The reason I chose to run at Georgetown University, honestly, when I was going through the recruitment process was because of the culture of the team and the women that were there.

And so I am so grateful.

Those women are still some of my best friends to this day, and they helped me just have a positive experience in the running world.

But there definitely was more of an element I Feel like I definitely suffered from stress injuries.

And so there's a lot more, like, lack of awareness of how to properly fuel and all that kind of stuff during that time.

So I feel like, man, if I had the knowledge I do today back then, I would have definitely been a little bit more successful.

Something that comes up continuously is women specifically seem to be missing that key point.

And I was talking to Maya Watson recently, and she mentioned to me that.

What.

But the way the switch flipped for her was when she got connected with a female coach.

And it seems like too many of the running coaches are men, and I wonder if that is a problem, because the men are not necessarily in tune with the needs of their female athletes for nutrition.

Yeah.

And for me, that switch actually happened in 2016 when I started working with a dietitian from the US Olympic Committee.

She was the first person to tell me that I wasn't eating enough.

And that was when I was in triathlon because I had had coaches telling me I needed to lose weight to run faster.

That's what I was getting at when I asked about your experience, because this is what I continually hear, and I think it is a.

It's a disservice to female athletes.

It's leading to injuries.

It's leading to lifelong repercussions.

And I think it's.

I'm glad you didn't have any of those.

But it really is unfortunate.

Were you running cross country or were you running track?

I did both.

You did both.

Oh, okay.

I did both.

So, yeah, I definitely suffered from, like, having different eating disorders in terms of.

I would calorie count that.

Unfortunately, that was very unfortunate.

So I wish I knew that.

Yeah.

Was there.

But thankfully, this dietitian stepped up and was like, you're doing it wrong.

If you want to lose weight, you got a fuel property.

Like, you're in energy deficit because you're not eating well enough.

Yeah.

Hence, your body's in starvation mode.

Trust me.

Give me a year of following my plan on how much calories to eat.

We got my resting RMR to figure out what.

Just how much I needed to eat to survive type thing.

And then she worked with me, and she was like, you're gonna put on weight, but just trust me, it's okay.

Yeah.

And I did.

I put on probably, like, at least six pounds, but I stayed healthy.

I was actually competing better at the heavier weight than I was when I was lighter.

And then after that year, I actually saw my.

Without trying, my weight actually came down.

And so, honestly, she's probably saved my career in terms of not getting bone injuries anymore and being able to keep up with the demands of my training and recover better.

And so I am so grateful for her that I finally had someone tell me, that's eating is what you need to do.

That's an awesome thing.

So, yeah, I'm a huge advocate of that because of the issues I've had throughout college with just the running.

That was just the culture of the running system.

Right.

You want to be lighter and have.

And I think it's still.

I think it's still there.

I just don't know.

I have some interaction with my son's high school coaches, and they definitely do not go there.

But I know that once you get to the college ranks, I know that becomes an issue.

I want to get back to the Olympics, because watching it, I was so excited to see you out in the lead pack.

And then it was all kinds of misfortune that you.

Things that you just can't possibly, but you gutted it out.

I saw you riding on a flat tire at one point.

You did what you needed to do to finish, and I was.

I didn't know how you were feeling.

I can only imagine I was sitting at home feeling like, at 1.

On the 1 hand, feeling so sad that this has happened to you, but on the other hand, just so impressed that you were not going to let this take away from you finishing this race.

What was the experience like for you?

Yeah, crazy experience.

Oh, man.

I would.

I actually had a moment.

I'll get into a little more, but I had a moment out there when I flatted that I laughed to myself, literally out loud, and was like, what did I do wrong to the universe to have all this happen in one race?

Race.

But, yes, I'll start.

From the beginning, I was.

Honestly, making that team was the hardest part.

And so I really approached that Olympics as just taking it all in, seeing what I could do with the work I put into it.

And so getting called down to the start line was incredible.

I just got goosebumps thinking about it, because I honestly started to tear up as I ran down because the crowd was so loud and cheering so loud.

Like, I had never experienced anything like that before.

And to be, like, standing on the start line looking at the Eiffel Tower, I was like, I did it.

I'm here.

So I still have great emotion and feelings towards that, but the race itself, oh, yeah, that was heartbreaking.

I still don't think I'm fully over it, but I've been able to Take the time to process it for sure.

But yes, swimming front pack.

Coming out of the water, right where I needed to be, I was.

I literally said to myself, even, like mentally on the bike, I was like, I'm doing it.

This is what I'm here.

I'm doing this.

I'm going to have a great Olympics.

And next thing I know, I was on the ground and I slipped out on the bike.

And I think back to that crash in that corner where I slid out on lap two, I think it was.

I would have taken the corner the same way if you asked me to do it again.

I don't know why I went down.

You weren't alone.

A lot of women went down.

It was wet for the women's race.

It was amazing to me that it dried completely by the men's race.

I don't feel like I took it too fast.

I was following, I think, the six girl wheel.

It was Julie Darin.

I was following her wheel in the line of the group.

And I didn't even feel myself going down.

I was just on the ground all of a sudden and so popped back up, looked at my chain, got right back on the bike and was trying to close that gap to the women.

I think I lost about 15 seconds.

And unfortunately I was with two other riders and we just weren't able to close on that, that, that front group.

So then, yeah, accepted that and was like, okay, I can still salvage this.

I'm in the chase group.

We had Taylor Nib and my fellow American there, and I was like, we're strong athletes in this group.

We can make something of this.

I can be top 20.

And yeah, to lap, to flat, go slowly flat.

And then on the.

I think it was like fifth lap of.

Or sixth lap of eighth.

That was heartbreaking.

And I was probably a good 2K from the wheel pit.

And.

And as it happened, I pulled over to the side in the group of women and just was like, go by me.

And everyone that went by me was like, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry.

Like, they kept.

They were all just, like, aware of what.

Just for those of us who obviously don't have this experience, you don't carry anything.

You basically are entirely dependent on support.

Yes.

And so on the course, there are two wheel stations, usually one right out of transition, and second one is on the far part of the course.

One is neutral.

So World Triathlon provides different wheel sets.

And then the other one is.

Actually, I had my own wheels in the pit, so the wheel spot, I was Closest to was the neutral.

So for me to get there, I had to make several corners on cobbles, wet pavement before I could actually change my flat.

So I was riding purely on the rim and went down a couple more times.

I.

Yeah, it was heartbreaking, but to roll up to the wheel pit, I was yelling at them, 12 speed, Shimano, give me a 140 rotor.

So I.

Thankfully, I got to change my wheel and they did give me an 11 speed, which made it a little tricky to shift.

I kept going and I thought to myself, I even had the cameraman ask me, are you done?

Or maybe he was a technical official on the cameraman's motorcycle.

And I was like, no, I'm not done.

How.

Why are you asking me that?

Yeah, seriously.

And no, I kept going.

And honestly, then it turned into making it to the run because there's a point on the course that they identify where, if the first runner gets to this point on the course, then the bikers are eliminated.

And so I knew where that was.

And I could tell by how much time went by that I was getting close to being eliminated because the runners were starting to come.

And so when I saw that point and I saw the runners coming towards me, I got on my saddle and I just sprinted just to make sure I made it to the run, because I was determined to cross that finish line.

I don't think I would have forgiven myself for not fighting that day.

And just because of how much time and years and work went into it, I was determined to get there.

So obviously, me, it's the run.

At that point, I wasn't really racing.

I was trying to take it in.

I was trying to run as fast as I could, given the situation.

But you are the poster child for control.

What you can control, and that's what I tell my athletes, who I coach all the time, is like you.

You deal with what happens, you adapt, but you keep moving forward.

You focus on the things that you can do, and you just make the most of it, and that's a testament to who you are.

So, really, I'm so glad that you found.

And you weren't even last.

I.

No, I wasn't last.

Thankfully, I did.

I did catch some or run past some people.

And no, I wasn't last.

But, yeah, that was tough result.

Having been in the front pack in the swim and being where I knew I could be.

Yeah.

And not being able to showcase my fitness, that day was tough for sure.

I really do believe I could have been a top 10, which I've been walked away so proud of.

And I know that I'm capable of that.

But to not be able to showcase that or have that result is.

Is definitely still something I'm processing, but sure.

Yeah.

And I'm sure that's going to be.

Something that you'll process over time.

And I think with the benefit of hindsight, you're going to become increasingly positive.

I can see you're already positive about the whole thing.

Yeah.

I didn't cry, so that's.

Yeah.

I can only imagine when your whole life works up to a certain point and then things go again, all these things out of your control happen and conspire against you that way, it.

It can be devastating.

But you are, I think, handling it with a plum.

And I think like I said, with the benefit of hindsight, it's going to be.

You were in the Olympics.

And that's something that most people can't say.

I will say I got like an overwhelming amount of support from random people on social media, giving, sending me messages, just saying how inspiring it was and how much it meant for their children to see me persevere.

And that honestly made.

See, now you're gonna make me choke up.

But like some of the stories people share with me and the conversations that's so nice, that made the difference.

I can only imagine that really must have been wonderful.

So.

Yeah, because honestly, while I was out there, I was not thinking about that.

I was thinking about what just getting to that line.

So to put a different perspective on it was really cool for me.

That's really wonderful.

Yeah, I love to hear that because I've spoken with recent guests about the not so good parts of social media and it's really nice to hear about the good parts of social media.

So I've heard from a reliable source that you are considering a transition to longer distance racing.

There was a rumor that you were going to be at Indian Wells, but I.

I know that my source is come down lame and is not going.

To be Indian Wells.

So what are your future plans?

Yeah, sure.

No, after this fall I decided I feel like I'm in this position of do I go for another Olympic cycle?

Part of me wants to.

Given my result.

I was like home games la, why not?

So I'm taking this next year to dabble in both.

I want to try 70.3.

I've always wanted to try it since I've gotten to triathlon racing and seeing Matt do well at it excites me.

I want to get back to traveling and racing with him.

But I still love the short course stuff.

Yes.

My next year you'll see me doing both and I feel like more people are doing that.

Like Taylor Knibb.

I know she's special athlete.

She's extremely talented.

She's not the only one.

She's not the only one.

She's shown us that you can do both.

Yeah.

So, yeah, me and my coach, Nate Wilson are coming up with a plan on how to train for both.

And I was planning to do Indian Wells, but after my final race at Super League, I was so tired and I thought, I don't want to start this 70.3 journey not being 100%.

And so I decided to take a break and it was the right decision.

I, I needed some time off to honestly just even process this year with the Olympic selections, the Olympics and everything.

Yes.

Next year you will see me at a 70.3 race.

I do have a TT bike now that I occasionally ride.

So no, I'm really excited for this next year to try something new.

But I always consider and resort back to my.

I hope you understand what the landscape looks like for the women now because I know things have changed because Taylor Spivey has retired.

I don't know yet.

You never know.

Oh, really?

It was Katie Zafir's who retired?

Yes, it was Katie.

No, that's okay.

Yeah, Katie Zafir is retired and she's gone into a new coaching role development coaching role for usat.

Taylor Spivey, I believe is still unsure.

She did race the T100 and highly pretty good success at that distance.

But I don't think she's done with.

Short course in terms of your potential competition for the Olympics.

Now, you can't obviously discount who we don't know because they haven't emerged onto the scene yet.

But in terms of the women that are still around, obviously Taylor Nib and then who else?

Gwen Jorgensen has said that she wants to try for la.

So we have Gwen.

So Gwen, that will make her 40ish.

I think so.

Yeah.

Not that it's impossible, but I think it's.

I don't think it's crazy to say that you have a better chance at that age in longer course than you do in short course because the thing that goes first is your speed.

Yeah.

And short course is all about speed.

I would never count out Gwen, but at the same time, that's a pretty tall.

Okay, so there's Gwen, there's Taylor.

Yourself.

Yeah, yeah.

Summer Rapaport.

Oh, yeah.

Went to Tokyo.

Is still pushing on with Short course as well.

And then you have Erica Auckland, who is coming up the ranks.

She is, I think, believe the same age as Taylor Knipps, still in her 26, 27 age.

Tamara Gorman, another one who was U23 world champion and Junior World Champion.

I'm trying to think who else you have Gina Sereno, who also has had success at the World Triathlon Championship Series races.

So you definitely still have a pool of us.

I feel like a lot of us are now in that position of trying to decide is LA too far or in our bodies put up with that.

Gosh, committing another four years of this.

Right.

That's not nothing.

Is it the kind of thing where you really have to be in it for four years, or is it the kind of thing where you can take a year to just chill a little bit and then dive back in?

Yeah, it's something I am definitely considering because Matt and I do want to start a family and I have thought about that.

Do I have a year to take off to have a family or have a kid?

And I do think it's possible, but you have to keep yourself in the rankings to even get on a start line.

So there are things in place now with maternity leave, with World Triathlon that freeze your ranking.

So it does make it actually possible.

Possible.

Oh, good.

I'm glad to hear that.

Yeah, I'm glad Nicholas Spirig and Katie helped develop that because both of them came into back from being pregnant and had to work up the rankings that World Triathlon recognized that there needs to be something in place.

Good.

And so, yeah, it's definitely made it more possible to step away for a little bit and then come back.

Yeah, it's.

You definitely can.

But the qualification process will start in 2026.

It's always two years out.

You have a year to think about it.

I just want to go back to.

What you said about Taylor Nib and other athletes doing both.

And it's interesting to me, in the last, I would say, what do you think?

Five or six years?

We've just seen this surge of athletes coming from short course to 70.3 and Ironman and having incredible success.

And I was talking to Laura Siddal about it recently, and I was just remarking on the fact that in the past, like Matt, who's this phenomenal swimmer, he'd be first out of the water by a lot, and now he's often third, fourth, fifth out of the water.

To these guys who are coming out of the short course world who are able to, it's not that much of a difference right from the olympic swim of 1500 to the half ironman of 1900.

So it's not that surprising.

But what I do find surprising is that they're able to take their speed from the short course and keep it for the long course which is really phenomenal and it just shows the kind of athletes we're talking about.

That said, I'm not terribly surprised to see people like Taylor Nib, Julie Theron, Hayden Wilde is going to be at the 70.3 worlds.

All these guys and women have been able to do both because I would imagine that the training is similar.

The only thing you probably have to do, I think you tell me if I'm wrong but is to add more volume to be able to do the distance.

Yeah, honestly I think the biggest thing people like with the short course racing to the long course is getting time in on the TT bike.

I don't even necessarily think that our volume training volume is that much lower.

It's just maybe changing so you're not running as much of the faster threshold workouts.

You're doing more of the like aerobic endurance building like tempo stuff.

Yeah.

But no, I think the biggest challenge is the TT bike just getting comfortable with, of being in that position for so long.

I know that's been probably like what area I need to focus on with my transition.

Is that more than necessarily the volume?

Huh?

Yeah.

It's interesting.

I remember Taylor showing up for one of her first races on a road bike and I think it was Boulder actually It was Boulder road bike with slap on arrow bars and, and people were like skeptical and I remember thinking to myself if that's where she's comfortable that's where she's going to do best.

And sure enough that's exactly, exactly what happened.

Yeah, so exactly.

I actually raced the couples championship with Matt.

That was a few years ago and it was a 20k TT like non draft and I rode my, my road bike with clip ons and I held my own on that and I had a disc wheel on and it was just because I didn't have enough time to get comfortable in a TT position and to run ball off that.

So yeah, I, I stuck with what worked and we got second that day.

So it paid off for sure.

The most, I mean I've said this before, the most aero position is not what you look like but rather the best aero position that you can maintain comfortably and over time.

And that is not always, it's a very often not the same thing.

So it's something you have to definitely learn and train for.

Kirsten, I can't thank you enough for this conversation.

We covered a wide range of topics.

And it was a delight.

I really appreciate you making time for me.

Kirsten Casper is a U.S.

olympian for track.

She has been on the World Triathlon Series for several years and next year we can look forward to seeing her at an Ironman branded 70.3 event.

Yes.

Any thoughts about even longer than that?

No, no.

That's what Matt says when I ask him and then all of a sudden I heard he was toying with the idea so I know I can see.

Matt doing one me that's too long.

I can't ride my bike that long.

Fair enough.

Kirsten, thank you so much for joining me today on the tridog Podcast.

I really enjoyed the conversation and I look forward to seeing you and Matt at some time soon.

What's up everybody?

My name is Joe Wilson and I'm a proud supporter of the TR Podcast.

The Tri Dark Podcast is produced and edited by Jeff Sankoff, one of my good friends, along with his amazing interns Cosette Rhodes and Nina Takashima.

You can find the show notes for everything discussed on the show today as well as the archives of previous episode@www.tridoc podcast.com.

do you have any questions about any of the issues discussed on this episode or do you have a question for consideration to be answered on a future episode?

Send Jeff an email@try.com if you are interested in coaching services.

You should really reach out to jeff@tridarcoaching.com or life supportcoaching.com where you can find a lot of information about Jeff and the services that he provides.

You can also follow Jeff on the Tridar Podcast Facebook page, Tridar Coaching on Instagram and the TriDarch YouTube channel.

And don't forget to join the TriDarch podcast private Facebook group.

Search for it and request to join today.

If you enjoy this podcast I hope you would consider leaving a rating interview as it helps the show as well as subscribe to the show whenever you download it.

And of course there's always the option of becoming a supporter@patreon.com drydockpodcast the music heard at the beginning and the end of the show is radio by empty hours and is used with permission.

This song and many others like it can be found at wwra the reverb nation.com where I hope that you will visit and give a small independent fans a chance.

The Tridar Podcast will be back soon with another medical question and answer it in another interview with someone in the world of multisport.

Until then, train hard, train healthy.