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Coming up in this week's second hour of the show.

It's time we talk audio around your house with Frank Deflippis from Sonos.

Maybe their grandparents record player, but they can take that throughout their entire experience, whether in there brushing their your teeth or out cooking in the backyard at the barbecue.

Yeah, I love the whole two channel vinyl resurgence.

And I was talking to a couple of designers and one architect at IBS last month and there were several people who told me they were working on two channel listening rooms for clients, whether they were like library studies or a couple of them were bourbon bars.

So grab your toolbox, put on your thinking cap and let's get to work right here on around the House with.

Eric G.

Welcome to the Round the House show, the next generation of home improvement.

I'm Eric G.

Thanks for joining me today.

This hour is brought to you by our friends at Monument Grill.

If you're looking for that brand new barbecue this spring, check them out@monument grills.com and I have a new friend here with us today and I was walking around the builder show at Design and Construction week and of course I love audio and how much do I love audio?

So much that we've got Frank coming in.

Frank to Phillips Sonos.

Welcome to around the House my friend.

Thank you Eric.

It's awesome to be here.

It's great meeting you a couple of weeks ago in Las Vegas and yeah, let's talk some audio, man.

This is my jam and you guys do such a great job with it and I just really enjoy how you have taken a space that was kind of technology behind and have just in a matter of years have developed it into this just beautiful audio system.

Let's start out for the new people out there, maybe the builders, remodelers, the homeowners that are like I know it's Sonos, but what is it?

Yeah, thanks.

Sonos is a 23 year old company born out of Santa Barbara, California.

A couple of audiophile engineers had an idea to create a networked multi room audio system and they incorporated in 2002 but the first product didn't ship till 2005.

So that's a couple of years of product baking in the oven.

And then Sonos came out with the Sonos Connect and the Kinect amp and a controller.

And for many years Those were the products.

But Sonos is a networked multi room audio system, which at its core, it's a software company that creates ultra uber user friendly interfaces so people can control the audio in their living space.

And when I say multi room, think kitchen, screen porch, back patio, powder room, home office, master bedroom, master bathroom, utility spaces, man cave.

You know, all the places in your home where you want to surround yourself with audio, and that's great.

Sonos didn't invent audio, but they created a better way for people to control it and access it.

And that's what has enabled Sonos to become a popular brand with folks around the world.

You know, it's amazing and I know people see the retail pieces out at their favorite audio store, but you guys have really dove into a lot of great products.

And to me, there's nothing more frustrating when you don't have a system like this.

And I, and again, my house here, I'll have two or three TVs on.

Maybe I'm watching a game or a race or something like that, and I'm doing stuff around the house on a Saturday.

But for me, there is nothing more irritating than having three televisions playing in the house with one audio track that's off by about five seconds between them, and it just mushes everything around and it's just not enjoyable.

And you guys are such an easy fix for something that simple.

It's amazing.

We didn't come out with sound bars for a good 10, 12 years after the company launched its first product, but the Sonos play bar and subsequent evolutions of that into now a kind of a good, better best.

There's three sound bars in the Sonos ecosystem solves such a major problem that you just described really well, Eric, and that is when audio and video is out of sync even by 7 milliseconds, not only is it noticeable, it's unwatchable, right?

And then if you've got audio in two adjacent rooms, right, We've all done this because we all have super bowl parties and we all entertain.

The tolerance for audio that is not in perfect sync is extremely low.

And that is the secret sauce in Sonos is being able to time code audio.

So that bottom line is whether it's my Saturday afternoon football game that I want to put in a couple other places, or whether it's a podcast or my favorite soundtrack, all my adjacent rooms are in absolute, perfectly in sync.

And don't ask me how Sonos does that because I don't know the answer, but it absolutely works.

That is the secret sauce that is the patented technology of Sonos.

And it's a lifesaver.

It really is.

Yeah.

And I don't want to bash on my cable company, but the problem is I've got some boxes that are streaming, some that are coming off the cable, and there's sometimes they're seconds apart.

Not milliseconds, but seconds apart.

And that's.

It's the most frustrating thing.

And of course, when you're watching your favorite game, you can hear something exciting going in the other room, and then you got to wait like a second and a half to see it, and it feels like forever, Right?

That's right.

And you realize it's the game you're watching just a few seconds in front of or behind.

And yeah, there's no doubt.

And good on Sonos for solving that problem, because it is a painful one and we've all lived it.

Oh, man.

And we have, and it's brutal.

But there's so many things that are so enjoyable out there.

Before Sonos, you would get your.

Let's say you would get your audio receiver and you'd have an A and B channel.

And maybe you'd run speaker wires all the way outside through your crawl space, out through the exterior wall, into your outside living space.

And then you had the speakers in there, and maybe you turn the system on and you're blasting outside because it was just a clunky little system that wasn't user friendly no matter how good your receiver was.

You're like, why am I crank?

Oh, I'm planning that to the neighbors at 11 o'clock at night because you're pushing buttons that you can't read.

And it just goes badly.

Or some of the early stuff before Sonos, that somebody go, oh, I got a Bluetooth surround sound.

It's two seconds behind on those speakers.

And so technology has come so far that you can just control things with the touch of your finger and not be sitting there trying to be up there pushing the buttons because you can't get the remote to work on the receiver.

And so it's so great to see how technology has come.

And this is just for the regular user, not the big full on.

Right.

Whole house system.

This is for the everyday person.

And you can expand it to whatever your heart desires.

You make a great point, Eric.

And I've still got my bookshelf speakers from college 100 years ago.

I've got the.

I grew up in the 80s, so we all had a stereo receiver, we had vinyl, we had CD collections.

And it was very much an analog world.

The fidelity was really pretty good.

Right.

The sound was good, but the user interface was clunky.

It didn't take advantage of the fact that the whole world was moving to a wireless network in their homes called WI Fi.

Right?

Yeah.

And it also didn't take advantage of the fact that slowly but surely, music was moving to the cloud.

And it was an awkward transition.

And Sonos happened to be really well positioned for that transition on both fronts.

Yeah.

And to your point about the B speakers on your stereo receiver, I did that.

All my buddies did that.

Friends and family did that.

Industry people did it for clients.

Right.

They did it with higher quality equipment, better fidelity speakers.

But if you wanted to make a change, you had to walk to the area where the source equipment was, Whether that was in your kitchen keeping room or that was in your basement rack, it didn't matter.

And we didn't realize how inconvenient that was until we didn't have to do it.

There was a time when if you wanted to change the channel on your television, you had to walk up to the box and rotate a knob.

That's my exercise plan as a kid.

So, yeah, it's awesome.

And certainly Sonos is not the only audio company that takes advantage of all these great trends we've had with technology.

But I think we've done a good job of leveraging those just to make life easy for folks.

And to your point, you don't have to have a house full of it.

You could have one or two zones and love it.

And the other thing that I love, too, is you guys with the sound bars.

There's nothing worse than audio coming out of a really nice television out of the speaker in that thing.

Yeah, it's.

I just wish they all actually wouldn't even put them in there because it's just so tinny.

It sounds like you shoved a bunch of rags and some aluminum foil in a good speaker and tried to make it sound good.

And a sound bar is just the greatest entry point for people out there.

To find out more information, head to aroundthehouseonline.com.

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Will never understand what it's like to play an instrument.

What's up?

This is Sticks It Inia and Satchel.

From Steel Panther, and you are listening.

To around the House with Eric G.

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And you should, too.

1987.

I never want to leave you when you told me I welcome Back to the around the house show the next generation of home Improvement.

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Check them out@monumentgrills.com now let's get back to our conversation about audio for your home with Frank from Sonos.

It really is.

I was a traditional 5.1 stereo guy for, I don't know, from my teenage years all the way up until probably 20 years ago when I found Sonos as an early adopter and a customer myself.

But there's no doubt, right, even a high end OLED display which has just a remarkable 4K Dolby Vision HDR plus, just absolutely gorgeous video production coupled with a couple of 3 watt speakers there aren't even directionally correct.

They're pointing backwards to give you a reflection off the wall.

And most of the professionals in the AV world know that the audio is quite a bit more important than the video for controlling the emotion of the experience.

Because ultimately that's what home theater is all about.

It's creating these experiences that transport us into the content that we're digesting.

Audio is such a big part of that.

And so you're right.

And I, what I have noticed is some of the display manufacturers now they're starting to ship their own factory branded sound bar with their display because they realize what you're saying and that is just that in order to do this experience justice, we've got to crank up the volume a little bit on the quality of the audio because we're not doing any favors.

We've got this amazing OLED display or micro LED or whatever the technology is.

No, I think you're right.

And Soundbars is a place that Sonos has spent quite a bit of time.

We introduced the Play bar but now we've got the good, better, best entry level sound bar which is now sub$200 all the way up to our high end, which is really a remarkable piece.

I like when companies offer choice for everyone's got a different budget and performance goal in mind.

So you gotta give people choices.

It's almost like you sit down into like an IMAX theater with the new TVs and then they hand you your own personal drive in theater speaker to experience it with.

I used to sell av.

I used to caution people about putting Walmart tires on their Ferrari and it's, it's right on point.

So I agree with you and it.

Was amazing seeing what you guys were doing down at the design and construction week because I really love how you Guys are now getting into the, you've been there, but you're really expanding into that builder space and just getting out there with all the new stuff that you had there.

It was really fun to see all the different things that are going on.

And again, I have not, I'll be the first to admit, I have not really dove into all the things that Sonos was doing.

But standing there talking to you and Katie, everybody else, it was just great to see how wide for any residential experience and even light duty commercial stuff for somebody in their small business or whatever else, what you can do and the experience that you can give someone.

Sonos was became a popular brand with direct consumer meaning you can go to sonos.com and you could buy yourself some plug in WI fi speakers and you could hook it up yourself.

You didn't need a PhD in network engineering.

If you had WI fi at home, you could do it.

And that led to a lot of popularity with consumers.

But at the same time, we've always had a professional channel resellers, professional smart home installers, audio video experts who also embrace the product.

And I can tell you it's difficult being a manufacturer serving both sides because ultimately you're going to create channel conflict when you've got a retail or a direct consumer presence, but you've also got a very critical and very important network of resellers and dealers who are authorized and trained on your product.

And so Sonos continues to try and do the best they can to manage those channels.

But the reason we were at the builder show is because their narrative that we're all trying to explain to the construction world is that you can take the benefits of Sonos and build it in to a new project, right?

Whether that's an addition, a renovation or a new single family home.

You could take the all the things you love about Sonos and build it into the structure if that's the case.

Now we're talking about using traditional architectural passive speakers, a traditional two conductor wire pull back to a head end where you're going to find a Sonos amp that's not the amp where you're going to have to go adjust the volume by walking up to it like we did in 1987.

But it is, but that's the ultimate now where I can have the performance and the cosmetics of an architectural speaker, but I could also have the ease of use and flexibility of a Sonos system.

Hey, that sounds pretty awesome to me.

I want to definitely do that in the next house I build.

In order for us to pull that off, we need to really partner with the trades and that means we have to show up.

And that's what we were doing there.

Right.

We, and we have programs and that's my job.

Right.

How do we accommodate the trades to make it easy?

So if you want to include Sonos in your next project, there's a guy at the factory who's there to help you do that.

And whether that is to help you find one of our, one of our seasoned pros in your service area who can hit it out of the park for you and your client, or whether that's a set of technical files or specs that we, the factory, need to provide so you can build it into your, into your design from a very early stage and all the things in between.

That's why we're there.

And believe it or not, we're still pretty new to the space in terms of being a formal member of the construction community.

We couldn't be happier about it though.

And I think it's really important we're there.

Yeah, absolutely.

You grabbed my attention, obviously.

And the thing that I love too is let's say someone's working on a medium to high end remodel and they're, you know, remaking some spaces and all of a sudden they've got maybe a 20 year old high end wired system in there.

Okay, how do I upgrade this?

Because I spent a ton of money on high end speakers that are built into the ceiling or behind the drywall or whatever they did.

You guys now have that ability to go in there and go, okay, now let's kick this up a notch and still stay within the Sonos ecosystem.

Absolutely.

And that's, that is the Sonos amp.

It, it wires up to a set of passive speakers the same way your old stereo receiver did.

Or if you've got a multi channel amplifier already, maybe you've got volume controls in the wall, maybe you had an older system.

You can still make that part of the Sonos ecosystem.

On that property, we've got an unamplified streamer which is called the Sonos port, and that's just line level out into an existing amplifier.

So if you've got a big system that you've invested in and you're not ready to just take that and chuck it, you don't have to.

You can, we can, you can make it into a Sonos zone using our port.

And that is a, as you might imagine, a very popular concept because all the trades out there, we're trying to stretch the budget for our clients.

And in some cases we've got some pieces that are not that old that have a lot of life left in them and we want to keep them in the plan going forward.

Yeah, it's a great point.

And those are not products that people are typically as aware of because those aren't the plug in speakers that you find on the website or in retail that a lot of people have experience with.

But it's allowed Sonos to become a popular brand name with consumers.

And so a lot of clients that are hiring trades to do my outdoor kitchen or my pool deck or the addition of my house or the screened in porch or maybe it's a complete rebuild, they're familiar with the brand.

And if the trade is willing to say that, hey, we can incorporate Sonos into this project, hey, that piques some interest.

To find out more information, head to aroundthehouse online dot com.

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Hey, this is Ron Keel, the metal cowboy from Kiel, the Ron Keel Band and Steeler.

We are rocking around the House with Eric G.

Raise you.

Welcome back to the around the House show, the next generation of home improvement.

I'm Eric Garrett.

This hour is brought to you by our friends at Monument Grills.

Check them out@monumentgrills.com now let's get back to our conversation about audio for your home with Frank from Sonos.

It's allowed Sonos to become a popular brand name with consumers.

And so a lot of clients that are hiring trades to do my outdoor kitchen or my pool deck or the addition of my house or the screened in porch or maybe it's a complete rebuild.

They're familiar with the brand.

And if the trade is willing to say that, hey, we could incorporate Sonos into this project, hey, that piqued some interest.

Yeah.

But those trades just have to know where to go for support and that's my job to figure out.

Hey, we are right behind you every step of the way.

We've got a local expert on the factory.

Let's go get it.

Yeah, yeah.

And there are so many.

I've got a buddy who is a huge works in media with me, Pete.

He's a huge audiophile.

He's got this high definition vintage audio in his home that we'll sit there and he'll put one of the CDs in and these are those HD ones and I'm hearing songs that I've heard my entire life and I'm like, oh, I didn't know there were strings back there because they were there and it didn't matter if it was playing on vinyl.

Streaming, what?

But you get into a system that's good, right?

Can actually play all those frequencies.

You feel like you're sitting there with the band at the recording session.

And I think we're starting to get back into that with people really looking at audio because, I don't know, CDs tend to cheapen that experience from cassette tape or even getting into vinyl.

And I think that as people are looking back going, wow, this was a better way to consume this or a higher quality way to consume this.

You guys are really in the right spot to help people experience that throughout their entire property.

That's a really interesting observation.

And I think when music went, we went from CD to streaming and digital.

We went to a short period of time there where it was the Wild west and people were downloading copyrighted content, filling their hard drives.

We all remember the days of Napster, but it was an interesting transitional period where for a short period of time convenience was winning out over performance.

And like we as Americans sacrificed true audio file quality for a period of time because we love the convenience.

Right.

In the early days of streaming audio and even to some extent when we were living in the world of CDs, we were tolerating pretty high rates of compression and you didn't get to hear those strays.

And when my uncle was playing records in 1978, he was having a better experience than I was on my original iPod in 2008.

And so the good news though is I think we've come back because the variety of lossless, uncompressed streaming audio is wide and readily available, highly affordable from the big giant, whether it's Amazon or Apple or some of the more niche players out there, we can finally have the fidelity that we all deserve as well as the convenience of streaming and digital and cloud based music.

Good for us.

But there was a period there about 15 years where we were, we didn't know we were missing.

Yeah, we took something that was a massive digital file and crammed it into a really small mp3 and went good enough.

And it wasn't and it wasn't.

And so I think that's, I think we've, like you said, I think we've jumped that shark and we've gotten back into balance.

I love seeing Gen Zers out there at the vinyl store picking stuff up and I'm like, all right, we're getting back to that.

Which to me is really right where Sonos wheelhouse is because now they can experience that not only just in front of maybe their grandparents record player, but they can take that throughout their entire experience, whether in there brushing their teeth or out cooking in the backyard at the barbecue.

Yeah, I love the whole two channel vinyl resurgence.

And I was talking to a couple of designers and one architect at IBS last month and there, there were several people who told me they were working on two channel listening rooms for clients.

Whether they were like library studies or a couple of them work bourbon bars in the front of their house with a two channel system set up.

And if you put, if you put a Sonos product in that room, you can then take that experience.

And it's not limited to that room.

If you want to take your Billy Joel album and play it throughout your entire house, your backyard, where you can do it, yes, you'll still have to go manipulate the LP in person.

But that's the experience.

That's exactly it.

That's why people do it, is.

Hey, I'm gonna, I want to go old school here for a minute because I like the crackle of my, my vinyl and I want to, I want to experience what it's like to take that out of the, out of the COVID and interact with it and handle it.

There's a tactile experience there, there's a visual experience there.

And then vinyl has its own unique audio experience, which is really awesome.

And so I love seeing that coming back and I love to see that the trade's actively involved with helping customers build that into their homes.

It's awesome.

Yeah, that integration is just beautiful.

And to me I'm like, okay.

I think when I do my system for my house here coming up, I'm going to have to integrate that in that way because I'm such a vinyl person.

I've got that 1960s roll around console record player with the old speakers in there that just have the bass that come out.

And it's just so different than any other playing experience that.

Yeah, I got to put that whole house one day for sure.

Now.

Keep that on the list there.

Yeah, absolutely.

Then I saw you guys for the commercial people out there as well.

And we have people in our audience out there how you were doing stuff, teaming up with other people and where if you had a chain of coffee shops, you can control the music in there.

So you don't have some barista at your other location that's playing Pantera when they're supposed to be playing the Foo Fighters or something.

You know what I Mean, it's just.

I thought that was really innovative.

I'm like, oh, for those people that have multiple locations, you guys could have some control from your fingertips.

Versus.

All right, what's Pete doing again, playing that in there?

We're not supposed to hear that.

So, yeah, no, it's great.

And we've learned some.

So the product I think you saw was called Sonos Pro, and that's a small team within Sonos.

It's about two years old.

This was the first time that we brought that group to Builder week out in Las Vegas, and I'm really glad we did.

But that.

To your point, that product was originally designed for the small business owner who owns a couple of locations, multiple locations, where music is just a really important part of the environment for doing business.

Coffee shops, a great example.

But there's plenty of retail establishments.

Apparel, clothing stores.

I don't know.

When I walk into a Banana Republic and there's, like, club music going on in the background.

I don't know why, but all I want to do is buy a sweater.

I don't even.

That's not even what I went there for.

There's something to it.

And so for that business owner, though, to rely on local staff to get that dialed in exactly right is it's too much.

And your point?

It could be a summer intern barista opening up the coffee shop.

And so Sonos Pro lets you, first of all, provide commercially licensed content, because.

That'S a big one right there.

Holy smoke.

Knowingly or unknowingly, a lot of business owners are using content that is licensed for residential personal use.

That's not for you to play in your place of business.

And if the wrong customer happens to walk in, you may find yourself with a $250,000 fine in your mailbox.

And nobody wants to get served with a cease and desist for violating that nobody wants.

Yeah.

And so there's the compliant content part of it, but it's the remote control that's really the sweet spot of that solution.

And so from your desk, as the owner, you can create schedules and say, hey, I want the Foo Fighters to come on only 20% volume in the main area of my restaurant, where people are standing there perusing the goods, ordering, interacting with baristas.

I want it on a 20%.

I want this type of content at lunchtime.

I want to crank up the beats per minute a little bit.

We're going to change a different genre, right?

I'm going to go to 26%, because I happen to know that's exactly the right volume level where people can still have conversations, but they can hear it.

And I can create a vibe in an environment that is really enjoyable.

So my customers are interacting with each other.

They're interacting with my staff.

It's just that's the scene that I want to create as a business owner.

But now I can do it across a dozen locations or 100 locations.

And what's interesting, Eric, is that for builders that operate design centers and model homes, it's a great solution for them, too.

And as the builder guy at Sonos, I'm trying to lean into that a little bit and communicate this to all the builder contacts that we've made over the last couple of years.

And so we've got several big builders that are using Sonos Pro.

To find out more information, head to aroundthehouse online.com.

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All right.

Welcome back to the around the House show, the next generation of home improvement.

I'm Eric G.

This hour is brought to you by our friends at Monument Grills.

Check them out@monumentgrills.com now let's get back to our conversation about audio for your home with Frank from Sonos.

But, man, I walk into that model home, and, man, this place feels great.

The color palettes are right on the furniture and the fixtures.

Everything's carefully curated.

Oh, and by the way, that music that's in the background, like, all of a sudden, I'm in a great mood and I'm ready.

Where's that agent?

I want to talk shop.

Yeah, man, if we can help a builder do that, then we're doing something right.

So good.

Yeah, yeah.

It's all in the user experience.

Somebody walks in, they go, wow, I really love this house.

And then they hear, tastefully, their favorite song being played overhead as they walk around in that.

You've just created this ultimate experience for the person coming in, that's the buyer and you as the seller.

For instance, what not a dream situation.

And honestly, the local staff, it's a relief for them, too, because if I'm a sales agent working in a model home on a Saturday, the last thing I want to be in charge with is dialing in the music.

Exactly right.

How the how some marketing director has decided what's on brand for this community.

Man, I'd rather somebody take that off my hands.

And yeah, they're trying to remember what.

Pandora station they're supposed to use or something crazy like that, but it's Just.

And then there's the ads in there that are maybe competing with what you're trying to do.

I've been in there and I'm in a store and they're running Pandora overhead and it's their competitors ad that's running in the middle of it.

I'm like, not sure if that's the look you're going for when you've got an ad in your store telling me to go someplace else.

Exactly right.

Not the look you want.

Not the look you want.

No, it's not.

And so that gets pretty, pretty crazy.

But I really love how you guys are.

Now.

We talked about it before for that homeowner out there that's.

I'm going to build my new custom house right now that they can reach out to their integrator and their company that's going to be helping manage that through the AV people of really saying, okay, I want to do Sonos throughout my house and they can just get a hold of their local people and team up with you guys and make sure that they have the right system for that project.

Yeah.

And that's new for us, being able to really.

Because there's a lot of different places where that can happen.

It could be if somebody's working with an interior designer or a designer or an architect early on in a project.

It might come up then.

Or it might come up when they meet with the builder and we're starting to look at floor plans and customer mentions.

This is going to be an entertainment area.

This is an outdoor space.

Hey, we really want audio.

If that's a.

If that's a builder, an architect or a designer who's familiar with our programs, they're not going to shy away from it.

They're going to be like, oh, yeah, we got you.

We got some great partners in the space.

And if ease of use is important and when is it not, Sonos is a great option.

Yeah, we just, we need to get that message out there that we are ready to partner with the trades.

And we've got literally hundreds of projects going at this point.

And the only way we could do it is because we've got a great dealer network.

And that's been the case since the early days.

And so that's not new to Sonos, but it's a critical part of our success with all the construction design trades is having that set of experts out there, local in markets.

These are.

These tend to be small regional players.

Right.

These are not big national players and they understand how to interact with the homeowner they know how to stay in their lane when there's they're one part of the budget.

Right.

You're not here to take over the pocketbook but if you can provide our client a solution in this price range then man, we're gonna be great partners.

And it's.

So we try and enable those partnerships.

We try and make a lot of those introductions.

As we all know trades small business partners inherently don't always trust each other.

And so we have to try and be a catalyst to encourage and when we make introductions let's make sure we're introducing the right partners and a lot of personality types out there.

We're all small business owners.

We all want to make money.

We all want to make sure the client is thrilled.

And so we have to do our part to try and make those introductions and make sure they work.

And if they don't work, let's find you somebody else.

Yeah.

At the end of the day, let's make sure the customer is thrilled.

And if we can do that, then we all win.

Yeah.

I mean there's I'm sure your retail partners out there.

I'll walk into a no name big box store and see some pieces on the shelf which is great.

But that's not who I'm going to go to.

That's right.

Planning that new construction project, I want somebody that can make this beautiful, seamless, flawless and know a heck of a lot more than I do about it.

I don't like walking into some of the big box retailers and the person that's the expert and I use air quotes on expert.

They were out next door at the grocery store getting shopping carts three weeks before and it's nice to sit down with people that, that breathe, live and die by this every single day.

And they've got the experience of they've done a project similar to yours 150 times.

Right.

They've lived through the gotcha moments or I wish I would have thought of that concepts and they can bring that to your project.

And it's worth it.

It's just worth it to.

Because all of this technology is great but the quality of the install is so important and that's it is maybe more than half of it.

Right.

Because we all want a clean look.

We want long term reliability.

We don't want to be out there on the edges of what products are designed to do.

So let's hire an expert and help plan out the project, the install.

What's the true cost of ownership of this system over years?

It's not Just what I'm going to spend today.

But is this something that needs updates or what's the lifespan of these products?

Because if I'm putting that addition on my house, this better be a 10 to 15 year lifespan on all the parts and pieces that are going to go into that.

I'm not thinking I'm going to be replacing everything in here in two to three years or if I am, I'd like to know now.

And so that's where it pays to bring in an expert so you can make the right decisions early on.

So amen to that.

Yeah, Frank, it's funny.

You can go out and buy as a consumer some of the high end speaker stuff to put in your house.

And depending on as simple as speaker location can change the entire user experience of how that sounds and how it performs.

It's amazing, especially when you're talking with rooms with vaulted ceilings and angled walls.

There is science to this that someone needs to understand.

No, absolutely.

And we offer big time training content to all our authorized dealers.

We created a calibration technique called trueplay.

Because every room is different.

Acoustics are extremely specific for every living space for all the reasons you described.

Is it a room that has a lot of glass in it?

What are the building materials?

Is it a tile floor, a carpeted floor?

How much soft sound absorbing furniture is in the space?

And so calibration becomes important.

But in the old days when I was coming up through the ranks, calibration was a highly specialized, very expensive thing.

That that was for the $10 million home and up.

An audio engineer would come in with headphones and some very expensive equipment and some sensitive microphones.

Everybody needed to clear the house.

And that was reserved for the guy that was building the dedicated home cinema with a really big budget.

That's not the case anymore.

And this isn't only unique to Sonos.

Lots of manufacturers now will ship their products with mics or they'll work other products that have microphones built in and allow our installer base to do what we call true.

We call it trueplay.

Other people have different names for their calibration, but it's really important.

High ceilings are not uncommon.

Vaulted ceilings, you find them on just about every job.

We did a giant garage for a guy in Arizona a couple of weeks ago.

That was for his RV and it was like a 24 foot ceiling.

And I don't even know if you can call it a garage.

This thing was like a warehouse or a barn and.

But he really wanted to have audio in there.

There was a little entertainment space in this garage.

And that takes a different level of amplification, a different size in ceiling product and calibration, all of which we worked with the builder and our dealer on.

So to your point.

Yeah, it's out there.

Yeah.

You want to talk about a different experience, have a speaker at 8ft off the ground and want it 40.

Right.

Big.

Different world.

Different world.

So that makes a lot of sense.

Frank, we're running out of time on this hour of the show.

And is there stuff that we missed that you wanted to catch up everybody up on in the show today?

Because we could talk about this like a Joe Rogan podcast for three hours and dive in.

We easily can.

I've really enjoyed it, Eric, so I appreciate you and having me on the show.

I would just say for, for all the the trades out there and listening off audience, if you want to find out more, you can go to sonos.com trades there's some content there that speaks to the various trades.

But you can also fill out a form there and send it in and basically at that point you're joining our mailing list and we communicate on a not terribly frequent but somewhat frequent basis on the goings on at Sonos so that you could always kind of be in the know and have the best information for your clients in your next project.

Frank, thanks so much.

You guys are just really taking over the world out there.

I love with the audio experience for people.

And it was so great seeing you guys at the show and all the products down there and how you're really helping builders and remodelers out there as well navigate a space that can be uncomfortable for them because they just don't know how to do it.

And those partnerships, what's going to be leading to so many successful projects for them and for our residential homeowners out there that are just wanting to do the best thing they can afford.

And you guys do a great job of meshing that all together and creating that recipe so they have a successful project.

Yeah, no doubt.

Really appreciate it, Eric.

All right, thanks again, Frank.

This has been great.

I'm Eric G.

Thanks for tuning in to around the House.

The radio.

Take my hand out.

Nowhere to go all over the radio with.