1 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,416 Welcome to Heaven Earth Church. My name is Ross Stackhouse. 2 00:00:09,448 --> 00:00:13,672 I'm the founding pastor of Heaven Earth Church. From the beginning, 3 00:00:13,736 --> 00:00:17,928 our heart was to be a church for people who don't fit neatly into 4 00:00:17,984 --> 00:00:22,040 church. Our heart is to meet people where they are, to learn their 5 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:25,944 stories, to honor their stories. Because in every human story 6 00:00:26,112 --> 00:00:30,032 is God's story. In this podcast, you'll hear more about the 7 00:00:30,056 --> 00:00:33,424 people who now call Heaven Earth Church home. Their stories, 8 00:00:33,472 --> 00:00:37,584 in many cases of misfits who are discovering or rediscovering 9 00:00:37,632 --> 00:00:41,808 faith. If you want to know more about us, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org 10 00:00:41,984 --> 00:00:45,340 Otherwise, we invite you now into the story. 11 00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:50,752 Hello, good people. Brad Miller here, the producer of the 12 00:00:50,776 --> 00:00:55,942 Heaven Earth Church podcast. One of the main benefits of being 13 00:00:55,966 --> 00:01:00,646 a part of the Heaven Earth Church community is our Sunday morning 14 00:01:00,718 --> 00:01:05,850 conversations taught by founding pastor Ross Stackhouse. 15 00:01:06,430 --> 00:01:11,450 You can watch and participate in the Sunday morning conversation 16 00:01:11,790 --> 00:01:20,490 this Sunday morning, 9:30am Eastern time at YouTube.com heavenerthchurch. 17 00:01:21,190 --> 00:01:26,174 The audio version of the Sunday morning conversation is available 18 00:01:26,262 --> 00:01:31,118 here on the podcast, which you can find at Apple Podcasts, Spotify 19 00:01:31,294 --> 00:01:39,022 and on the website, which is heavenerthchurch.org Here now is 20 00:01:39,046 --> 00:01:44,350 the conversation from Sunday, March 9, 2025, the first Sunday of 21 00:01:44,390 --> 00:01:52,368 Lent. The Dead Man Walking series. Why Jesus Died and why It 22 00:01:52,424 --> 00:01:55,700 Still Matters with Pastor Ross Stackhouse. 23 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:02,340 All right, let's have a prayer and then have our Sunday conversation. 24 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:19,514 Lord, I pray that you would open our eyes to see, open our ears 25 00:02:19,562 --> 00:02:28,202 to hear, open our hearts to receive the wisdom and the love that 26 00:02:28,226 --> 00:02:36,362 you so eagerly desire to give us for life, for eternal life. In 27 00:02:36,386 --> 00:02:45,412 Jesus name, Amen. So, Hudson, I'm need your help today. Is this 28 00:02:45,436 --> 00:02:49,636 your first start today on the visuals? Oh, dude, I'm so sorry. 29 00:02:49,748 --> 00:02:55,760 My phone isn't working. Hudson. So baptism by fire, my friend. 30 00:02:57,100 --> 00:03:00,116 There's a slide that talks about. It's got the word haunted 31 00:03:00,148 --> 00:03:04,964 on it. Look at that. Haunting. Perfect one for one from the field. 32 00:03:05,052 --> 00:03:13,310 Let's go. So when you think of the word haunting, maybe you think 33 00:03:13,350 --> 00:03:18,654 of, you know, something scary and bad, but in the true sense of 34 00:03:18,662 --> 00:03:24,782 the word, it's just that it's something poignant, something that 35 00:03:24,806 --> 00:03:28,370 evokes emotion, something that's difficult to ignore or forget. 36 00:03:29,750 --> 00:03:33,294 So you can of course be haunted by things that you'd rather 37 00:03:33,342 --> 00:03:37,276 not forget, that are scary, right? But you can also be haunted 38 00:03:37,308 --> 00:03:43,180 by beautiful things, by good things that just kind of stick with 39 00:03:43,220 --> 00:03:46,092 you, that get into your spirit, to your heart, into your 40 00:03:46,116 --> 00:03:55,372 mind. So a question to ask you to begin is recently what good haunting 41 00:03:55,436 --> 00:04:02,086 have you had? What's something in your life that's kind of haunted 42 00:04:02,118 --> 00:04:06,950 you? That like just. It stuck with you. It was so good, it was 43 00:04:06,990 --> 00:04:10,758 so beautiful, so wonderful that you just kept thinking about 44 00:04:10,814 --> 00:04:16,730 it? Maybe it was something in creation. Maybe it was a relationship. 45 00:04:19,390 --> 00:04:57,306 What's something good that's haunted you recently? Melissa. Melissa's 46 00:04:57,338 --> 00:05:00,714 niece. Her little niece is having a breakthrough with speech. 47 00:05:00,762 --> 00:05:06,154 So it's exciting to watch her discover the ability to communicate 48 00:05:06,202 --> 00:05:15,162 what she wants, who she wants. What good thing has been in your 49 00:05:15,186 --> 00:05:21,064 life recently that's made it. It's been difficult to ignore. It's 50 00:05:21,112 --> 00:05:35,368 poignant, evocative. Bobo, out of all the youth that Bobo works 51 00:05:35,384 --> 00:05:39,320 with, she has somebody she works with who's celebrating 30 days 52 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:46,640 of sobriety. Two of them those first 30 days. Hard, hard. Wonder 53 00:05:47,770 --> 00:05:53,630 hard. Yeah. What else? Something good that's haunting you, 54 00:05:53,930 --> 00:05:58,946 sticking with you. You can't ignore it. Jim, working with my granddaughter 55 00:05:58,978 --> 00:05:59,234 on the. 56 00:05:59,242 --> 00:06:03,282 Girl Scout cookies, it's just ideal. I look forward every year. 57 00:06:03,386 --> 00:06:06,030 It's just a fun thing to do and to see her. 58 00:06:11,130 --> 00:06:13,746 Jim getting to work with his granddaughter every year selling 59 00:06:13,778 --> 00:06:15,986 Girl Scout cookies just because you get to eat them. Jen, 60 00:06:16,018 --> 00:06:20,190 you get. That's your pay. You just get a samp as you go. No, getting 61 00:06:20,230 --> 00:06:23,570 to collaborate with your granddaughter and do a project. Yeah, 62 00:06:24,550 --> 00:06:33,310 sure. A good thing. A God thing. That's difficult to ignore 63 00:06:33,390 --> 00:06:45,144 or forget. My. Okay, guys, jeez, get a room. Anniversary today. 64 00:06:45,312 --> 00:06:52,264 How many years? 18 year anniversary for my dad and Patty 65 00:06:52,312 --> 00:07:04,072 today. All right, congratulations. What else? PT the 66 00:07:04,096 --> 00:07:06,360 last lay servant academy where. 67 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:12,258 I saw 39 light people not only get some training, but take their 68 00:07:12,314 --> 00:07:15,218 first steps to do leadership in their local churches. 69 00:07:15,314 --> 00:07:20,434 Yeah, that just, you know, I'm retired now. I don't want to do anything 70 00:07:20,482 --> 00:07:21,270 anymore. 71 00:07:22,170 --> 00:07:24,754 But I'm committing myself to teaching classes. 72 00:07:24,802 --> 00:07:28,514 In that because it's so exciting, especially. 73 00:07:28,602 --> 00:07:31,954 With younger people to see something happen. 74 00:07:32,042 --> 00:07:36,290 To God like that. Yeah. So pts participated in something called 75 00:07:36,330 --> 00:07:41,434 Lay Servant Academy. You don't know what that means? In our United 76 00:07:41,522 --> 00:07:44,922 Methodist, where I'm ordained United Methodist pastor PT is as 77 00:07:44,946 --> 00:07:49,834 well. So there's like clergy who are the ordained folks and folks 78 00:07:49,882 --> 00:07:55,514 who are not, who are lay people. And this academy trains lay 79 00:07:55,562 --> 00:08:00,202 people to take leadership in their local church and kind of come 80 00:08:00,226 --> 00:08:03,274 alive in their gifts. And he saw 39 people get receive training. 81 00:08:03,322 --> 00:08:09,700 That's exciting for sure. Yeah. What else? Joanna? 82 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:14,208 I've had several haunting stories, hauntingly good stories, 83 00:08:14,304 --> 00:08:23,220 but one most recently is that our cousin passed away unexpectedly. 84 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:29,900 And I'm reluctant to share it, but it's just too much to share. 85 00:08:33,330 --> 00:08:39,590 Joanna, is this about the letter? Okay, never mind. Go ahead. 86 00:08:40,050 --> 00:08:45,194 Well, I'm not going that deep into it, but the Lord kind of nudged 87 00:08:45,242 --> 00:08:48,938 me and kept kind of presenting his name to me roughly a year ago. 88 00:08:49,074 --> 00:08:54,310 And I went and visited him twice. And his life changed a lot 89 00:08:55,100 --> 00:08:58,852 months prior to his passing. So it's still so fresh because he 90 00:08:58,876 --> 00:09:05,300 passed away last week. But just. It's like hunting with good. 91 00:09:05,420 --> 00:09:08,964 It's like, you know, of course we miss him and we're grieving in 92 00:09:08,972 --> 00:09:13,840 the family, but I'm so glad that the Lord sent me or told me. 93 00:09:14,380 --> 00:09:19,300 The Lord kind of nudged me to go see him, and he was not what you 94 00:09:19,340 --> 00:09:20,760 call a believer. 95 00:09:23,510 --> 00:09:29,038 The reason I asked Joanne is because that's my first story about 96 00:09:29,094 --> 00:09:36,174 haunting. We were haunted in a wonderful way, in a terrible way. 97 00:09:36,262 --> 00:09:40,526 Our cousin, my dad's stepbrother, his son that we grew 98 00:09:40,558 --> 00:09:45,370 up very close to. My dad doesn't have any siblings, but our. 99 00:09:45,830 --> 00:09:51,980 His stepbrother's Uncle Ron. To me, our cousin died unexpectedly. 100 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:58,312 He was 50. And I did his funeral this past week. And so, of 101 00:09:58,336 --> 00:10:06,856 course, that was sort of haunting in a bad way. But that's 102 00:10:06,888 --> 00:10:11,256 kind of our existence as human beings. Sometimes the good that haunts 103 00:10:11,288 --> 00:10:16,722 you is right next to the bad that haunts you. And I was going 104 00:10:16,746 --> 00:10:19,186 to tell this story anonymously, but since she outed 105 00:10:19,218 --> 00:10:22,162 herself, I didn't want to tell it without her permission, but she 106 00:10:22,186 --> 00:10:27,714 just gave me permission. We were in a series called Discipleship 107 00:10:27,762 --> 00:10:34,802 Essentials. Can you name them? Name a discipleship essential. Any 108 00:10:34,826 --> 00:10:38,322 of the five. These are the essentials. We say that if we practice 109 00:10:38,386 --> 00:10:43,660 these, then we're going to be fruitful and flourishing as people 110 00:10:43,700 --> 00:10:46,252 of Jesus. There are things we just want to practice together. Can 111 00:10:46,276 --> 00:10:51,804 you name any of them? Humble, hungry and willing to seek. Jesus 112 00:10:51,852 --> 00:10:55,196 is essential number two. That means, like, whatever's going on, 113 00:10:55,268 --> 00:10:58,108 we want to just know, what did Jesus say? What did Jesus do? That's 114 00:10:58,124 --> 00:11:00,892 what we want to be about. We want to give up everything that we 115 00:11:00,916 --> 00:11:06,044 think we know to go pursue that. Tucker Sent. That's the easiest 116 00:11:06,092 --> 00:11:09,404 one to remember. Everyone's like, dang it, Tucker. That was the 117 00:11:09,412 --> 00:11:13,996 one. I was going to say. The we take seriously that Jesus is sending 118 00:11:14,028 --> 00:11:17,720 us to people and places for a purpose that may not be clear yet. 119 00:11:18,260 --> 00:11:24,732 That's the fourth one. There's three left. Yes. Shaped by God from 120 00:11:24,756 --> 00:11:29,228 the inside out, by continuous companionship with God. So we're 121 00:11:29,244 --> 00:11:32,844 not. It's, hey, this is beautiful. Don't give up. Our gathering 122 00:11:32,892 --> 00:11:37,324 together. In community, we're not just checking a box. Like, community 123 00:11:37,412 --> 00:11:41,640 is so powerful. We practice community spiritual practice together. 124 00:11:42,060 --> 00:11:46,564 It's so important. But you also want to do it on Monday, Tuesday, 125 00:11:46,652 --> 00:11:50,452 Wednesday. Develop a continuous friendship with God and 126 00:11:50,476 --> 00:11:53,280 be shaped by that from the inside out. You got three of them. 127 00:11:53,660 --> 00:12:04,276 There's only two left. You're a cheater. You're on staff. No, thank 128 00:12:04,308 --> 00:12:07,540 you. Thank you. No, you get one help. You get one phone a friend 129 00:12:07,580 --> 00:12:12,684 from Emily. Okay. Grace and the great commands at the core. At 130 00:12:12,692 --> 00:12:15,420 the end of the day, Jesus was asked, what's the most important 131 00:12:15,540 --> 00:12:20,172 law or command in the law? The first five books. He says, love the 132 00:12:20,196 --> 00:12:22,412 Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. That 133 00:12:22,436 --> 00:12:26,040 he says, wait, wait, wait, I'm not done. The second is, like it, 134 00:12:26,340 --> 00:12:29,740 love your neighbor as yourself. The law and the prophets 135 00:12:29,820 --> 00:12:34,972 depend on these two. And grace. If we're like, well, how what 136 00:12:34,996 --> 00:12:41,192 is love? The answer to that is grace. God just pours out love to 137 00:12:41,216 --> 00:12:45,096 us in a way that's extravagant and we're not necessarily deserving 138 00:12:45,128 --> 00:12:48,392 of it. God says, I declare you deserving of it because it's what 139 00:12:48,416 --> 00:12:52,180 I say. Grace and the great commands at the core of our lives. 140 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:58,872 And the last one, I'll give it to you, is collaboration. That we 141 00:12:58,896 --> 00:13:05,692 are a part of big good news and God could do it without us, but 142 00:13:05,716 --> 00:13:11,116 God refuses to. Each of us has a part to play in God's big news 143 00:13:11,188 --> 00:13:14,892 mission to restore all of creation. I wanted to review those 144 00:13:14,996 --> 00:13:19,852 because you need to pass the test coming up, and I don't want 145 00:13:19,876 --> 00:13:24,588 you to fail. No, I'm just kidding. Essential 4 My sister took 146 00:13:24,644 --> 00:13:28,044 seriously. She's out of the room. Good. We'll talk about her 147 00:13:28,052 --> 00:13:32,822 while she's not here. I was not going to do it by name, but my 148 00:13:32,846 --> 00:13:38,950 cousin's name was on her heart. She felt sent to him. She 149 00:13:38,990 --> 00:13:46,422 responded. She wrote him a long letter. He was kind of lonely, 150 00:13:46,486 --> 00:13:50,982 spent a lot of time to himself. It wasn't secret that he 151 00:13:51,006 --> 00:13:56,510 had some struggles, but, gosh, a heart of gold. People said that 152 00:13:56,550 --> 00:14:01,262 independently of this guy, like, he had a heart of gold. So 153 00:14:01,366 --> 00:14:05,130 this person I'm telling you about, she's sitting down right now, 154 00:14:06,150 --> 00:14:10,942 decided to write him a letter expressing how wonderful he is to 155 00:14:10,966 --> 00:14:18,814 him, how worthy he is of love. And she beared witness to her faith. 156 00:14:18,862 --> 00:14:21,982 Not a script like, hey, man, if you die today, do you know where 157 00:14:22,006 --> 00:14:28,072 you're going? Like, no, hey, here's who Jesus is to me. I just 158 00:14:28,096 --> 00:14:34,744 want you to know that. And tried to pass that on to Him. So 159 00:14:34,752 --> 00:14:40,100 this was in January or like around Christmas time. Well, then 160 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:49,186 he died last week and I was sitting with the family and wouldn't 161 00:14:49,218 --> 00:14:53,442 you know it, in the two months since that letter, he had gone to 162 00:14:53,466 --> 00:15:00,310 treatment, he sought the help that he needed and he was somewhat 163 00:15:01,290 --> 00:15:08,130 estranged from some family, his daughters. Six days before he 164 00:15:08,170 --> 00:15:12,466 died, he called and had an hour long conversation with a daughter 165 00:15:12,498 --> 00:15:19,700 that he hadn't spoken with basically in two years. And he left 166 00:15:19,740 --> 00:15:23,876 a voicemail to his other daughter that like she said she'll 167 00:15:23,908 --> 00:15:29,880 have for the rest of her life. It's terribly tragic that he died. 168 00:15:30,780 --> 00:15:38,308 We're mourning that. But we're also haunted by this like this hope 169 00:15:38,364 --> 00:15:41,572 that we have in this situation that I don't know if she did it or 170 00:15:41,596 --> 00:15:48,986 not. Something changed and we're haunted by like man, what if 171 00:15:49,058 --> 00:15:57,470 Jesus is more wonderful and bizarre and good than I've ever dreamed 172 00:15:59,810 --> 00:16:03,114 like. And yes, there's this reality alongside. Yeah, but somebody 173 00:16:03,162 --> 00:16:07,578 died. But that's being human. It's like we can't, that's, that's 174 00:16:07,594 --> 00:16:12,654 the hauntings that you can't reconcile the two things. Like something 175 00:16:12,742 --> 00:16:17,982 wonderful, like and hopeful is a part of this tragedy because of 176 00:16:18,006 --> 00:16:26,030 Jesus Sending and what I want to tell you today, there's a one 177 00:16:26,070 --> 00:16:29,630 thing, Hudson, that talks about how Jesus is not a myth or 178 00:16:29,670 --> 00:16:37,386 a theory. I think this story like haunted us in a way that it's 179 00:16:37,418 --> 00:16:41,466 like Jesus isn't a ghost story, myth or theory. Though sometimes 180 00:16:41,498 --> 00:16:44,346 throughout history there are literally these things called theories 181 00:16:44,378 --> 00:16:49,610 of atonement, things that explain why Jesus died. And people 182 00:16:49,650 --> 00:16:53,562 have argued over the ages about the right philosophy for understanding 183 00:16:53,626 --> 00:16:58,350 why Jesus died and why he lived, all these theological theories. 184 00:17:00,450 --> 00:17:03,802 But like to Paul, the guy who wrote so many letters in the New 185 00:17:03,826 --> 00:17:11,830 Testament, Jesus wasn't a theory. He was real. He was so real 186 00:17:11,870 --> 00:17:19,558 that he was willing to give up everything to follow him and pass 187 00:17:19,614 --> 00:17:25,302 on this legacy to other people. Jesus was a dead man walking 188 00:17:25,366 --> 00:17:30,550 who haunted and saved people. I'll tell you why this series is 189 00:17:30,590 --> 00:17:34,780 called that. There's a picture if you want to go to that for the 190 00:17:34,820 --> 00:17:43,292 series. You know where that's from? Ronald, that picture. We were 191 00:17:43,316 --> 00:17:50,240 there together, sir, from the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Israel. 192 00:17:50,900 --> 00:17:58,812 There's this amazing panoramic painting of Holy Week. And this is 193 00:17:58,836 --> 00:18:03,306 what we're doing for Lent is we're in a series called Dead man 194 00:18:03,458 --> 00:18:06,790 why Jesus Died and why it Still Matters for Ordinary People. 195 00:18:08,370 --> 00:18:12,826 I am not interested in this series in getting you to believe 196 00:18:12,898 --> 00:18:18,394 the right theory for atonement. Or the right philosophy 197 00:18:18,442 --> 00:18:25,082 for exactly why Jesus died. I have these questions in mind. There 198 00:18:25,106 --> 00:18:30,542 are some questions. Hudson on a slide. Why was. Why was the way 199 00:18:30,566 --> 00:18:36,270 he lived so haunting for people? Why did so many ordinary 200 00:18:36,350 --> 00:18:42,690 people believe at great cost to themselves. At great cost to themselves. 201 00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:50,398 And why did he die? He didn't die on accident. Can you go to Mark 202 00:18:50,454 --> 00:18:53,550 chapter eight, Hudson? Let's give Hudson a round of applause, 203 00:18:53,630 --> 00:18:58,606 please. He got his first start. He was put into the starting 204 00:18:58,638 --> 00:19:02,154 lineup today. And like, boom. It's like, hey, man, it's going to 205 00:19:02,162 --> 00:19:07,466 be harder than normal. Jesus made a prediction like this three 206 00:19:07,538 --> 00:19:10,938 times. In the Gospel of Mark, there are four accounts of Jesus 207 00:19:11,034 --> 00:19:15,190 life. They're called gospels. It's a word that means good news. 208 00:19:17,090 --> 00:19:23,098 We talked about that word last week. Good news. Mark, chapter 8, 209 00:19:23,154 --> 00:19:26,010 verse 31. It's right in the middle of the gospel. He began to 210 00:19:26,050 --> 00:19:29,222 teach his disciples or his followers. Disciples, a word that 211 00:19:29,246 --> 00:19:32,502 means like apprentice. Somebody's learning a trade, the 212 00:19:32,526 --> 00:19:35,686 human one or the son of man must suffer many things and be rejected 213 00:19:35,718 --> 00:19:39,446 by the elders, chief priests and the legal experts, all the VIPs 214 00:19:39,478 --> 00:19:43,222 of religion and be killed and then after three days, rise from 215 00:19:43,246 --> 00:19:47,814 the dead. He said this plainly. Jesus didn't talk plainly 216 00:19:47,862 --> 00:19:52,470 often. This time he was plain and Peter was like, get over here, 217 00:19:52,510 --> 00:19:57,918 young man. You can't be saying that. And Jesus said not so kind 218 00:19:57,974 --> 00:20:02,862 thing back to him in return. He predicted something like this 219 00:20:02,886 --> 00:20:09,422 two more times. Jesus didn't die on accident. There's some kind 220 00:20:09,446 --> 00:20:12,942 of thinking out there that, no, actually Jesus didn't die on 221 00:20:12,966 --> 00:20:17,070 purpose. It was kind of an accidental, inconsequential, not 222 00:20:17,110 --> 00:20:21,740 inconsequential, accidental consequence of the way he lived. 223 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,424 I could give that some credence. Except every gospel basically 224 00:20:26,472 --> 00:20:33,432 shows Jesus saying he meant to do it. Why? He had a clock. From 225 00:20:33,456 --> 00:20:36,780 the minute he started his ministry, he was a dead man walking 226 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,912 for three years. He was a dead man walking. He had three years to 227 00:20:41,936 --> 00:20:47,410 live. He knew that his clock was ticking. And while he lived those 228 00:20:47,450 --> 00:20:51,202 three years as a dead man walking, things he said and he did 229 00:20:51,306 --> 00:20:57,074 haunted people. They couldn't let go of it. They couldn't ignore. 230 00:20:58,506 --> 00:21:04,354 Evoked something in them that was dead. They'd be around Jesus 231 00:21:04,402 --> 00:21:07,218 for five minutes and then for the next five days he'd be like, 232 00:21:07,274 --> 00:21:14,294 what was that guy? He's so weird and so wonderful. I want to 233 00:21:14,302 --> 00:21:18,310 be weird like him. I don't want to be normal like these people 234 00:21:18,350 --> 00:21:20,678 over here that are the religious leaders. I want to be weird 235 00:21:20,774 --> 00:21:29,622 like him because he's weird. And wonderful and life giving. They 236 00:21:29,646 --> 00:21:32,790 were haunted by him. But then, of course, what we're building to 237 00:21:32,830 --> 00:21:37,462 is April 20, which is Easter, when they swore, literally, I know, 238 00:21:37,486 --> 00:21:40,422 it's a challenge to our rational brains. They swore that 239 00:21:40,446 --> 00:21:45,240 this man who is dead, crucified, was now up and walking. 240 00:21:47,500 --> 00:21:50,920 So in another sense, he was a dead man walking. He was raised. 241 00:21:51,980 --> 00:21:57,268 And that also haunted them like nothing else. And then it started 242 00:21:57,324 --> 00:22:01,636 this movement where people were willing to give their lives 243 00:22:01,708 --> 00:22:06,660 to say, he is the one. He is the anointed one of God. He has come 244 00:22:06,700 --> 00:22:11,264 to save us and free us and restore all of creation. When people 245 00:22:11,352 --> 00:22:18,976 like Pliny the Younger. What? Who? Pliny the Younger was a governor 246 00:22:19,008 --> 00:22:22,272 in modern day Turkey in About the year 111, he wrote a letter to 247 00:22:22,296 --> 00:22:25,744 the emperor Trajan, the emperor of the leader of the entire 248 00:22:25,792 --> 00:22:29,440 world, the. The leader of the not so free world, and said, hey, 249 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,544 Trajan, what do I do about all these people who are, like, meeting 250 00:22:32,712 --> 00:22:37,234 on Sundays and they're singing songs and eating and they're worshiping 251 00:22:37,282 --> 00:22:40,834 some guy who was dead and raised like he's a God? My practice 252 00:22:40,882 --> 00:22:44,242 is to beat the tar out of them. And then if they recant, I 253 00:22:44,266 --> 00:22:48,722 let them go. If they don't, I kill them. What do you think? And 254 00:22:48,746 --> 00:22:52,146 Trajan writes back, this is such an issue at this point. Trajan 255 00:22:52,178 --> 00:22:56,082 writes back and is like, good job, bud. Keep it up. Something like 256 00:22:56,106 --> 00:23:04,956 that. Why would people do that? It was a cult, Ross. Cults 257 00:23:04,988 --> 00:23:14,300 don't survive. They don't. The history of them survives, but, like, 258 00:23:14,340 --> 00:23:19,720 the actual movement itself doesn't. They were haunted by something. 259 00:23:21,540 --> 00:23:28,182 Something so incredibly wonderful. Why? Why was the way he 260 00:23:28,206 --> 00:23:32,390 lived so haunting that people would just sign up repeatedly for 261 00:23:32,430 --> 00:23:39,010 three centuries to claim this guy at great expense, at great cost? 262 00:23:40,910 --> 00:23:44,918 Why did he die? And his name means. Do you know what Jesus means? 263 00:23:44,974 --> 00:23:56,064 That name? It's a Hebrew name. Aramaic. Jesus. In the Christmas 264 00:23:56,112 --> 00:24:04,528 story, the angel says, you will name him Jesus because he will 265 00:24:04,584 --> 00:24:11,440 save us. Jesus means he saves or God saves. How on earth does this 266 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:22,842 guy's death save us? Huh? What? How does he save us? I want 267 00:24:22,866 --> 00:24:28,890 to talk with you about that up until Easter. And my hope is that 268 00:24:28,930 --> 00:24:36,362 by Easter, you believe something that's yours. Maybe for 269 00:24:36,386 --> 00:24:45,422 the first time or again, you. I. Sorry. I literally hope to have 270 00:24:45,446 --> 00:24:50,446 you leave this series haunted. In a good way. Not that it gives 271 00:24:50,478 --> 00:24:57,918 you nightmares, but it has you walking free. It has you walking 272 00:24:58,014 --> 00:25:04,990 hopeful. It has you walking convicted that he is for you, that 273 00:25:05,030 --> 00:25:08,190 he did come to save you. And you have some little inkling of what 274 00:25:08,230 --> 00:25:11,982 that means. And it fuels you to love people in the way that he 275 00:25:12,006 --> 00:25:18,522 has loved you. So you can tell people, I went to church today and 276 00:25:18,546 --> 00:25:21,802 the pastor said this weird thing that he wants us to be haunted 277 00:25:21,866 --> 00:25:29,738 by Easter. What a jerk. It's exactly right. I hope you're haunted 278 00:25:29,754 --> 00:25:36,602 by Easter. By the goodness of this weird guy named Jesus. I want 279 00:25:36,626 --> 00:25:39,114 to ask you this, though. Today's just an introductory. By 280 00:25:39,122 --> 00:25:42,552 the way, I don't really have a big one point for today. I just want 281 00:25:42,576 --> 00:25:49,880 to introduce my goal to haunt you. Hey. But I do want to give you 282 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,112 space to determine the rest of the series. It's like choose your 283 00:25:53,136 --> 00:25:59,256 own adventure in a book. When you think, can you back those questions? 284 00:25:59,288 --> 00:26:08,850 Hudson? These are some of my questions. What questions do you 285 00:26:08,890 --> 00:26:18,786 have about like, Jesus death and how it saves us? Are there questions 286 00:26:18,818 --> 00:26:22,594 that you that have been stirring in you specifically about 287 00:26:22,682 --> 00:26:27,778 like, why Jesus life saves us or why his death saves us or something 288 00:26:27,834 --> 00:26:33,484 like that? Maybe you're like, I don't know. I just showed up to 289 00:26:33,492 --> 00:26:37,932 church today. I'm tired, wanted more sleep. Something got 290 00:26:37,956 --> 00:26:42,668 me out of bed. My kid drugged me to church today or my parent drug 291 00:26:42,724 --> 00:26:48,524 me to church. Are there questions that have been unresolved 292 00:26:48,572 --> 00:26:55,360 for you? Yeah. 293 00:26:56,190 --> 00:27:00,502 White people have trouble believing that Jesus was raised from 294 00:27:00,526 --> 00:27:06,006 the dead when he raised people before Lazarus and the different 295 00:27:06,078 --> 00:27:11,766 ones and the son of the rich man and all this kind of thing, they 296 00:27:11,838 --> 00:27:14,806 seen it done, but yet they can't believe that that happened 297 00:27:14,838 --> 00:27:15,570 to him. 298 00:27:15,870 --> 00:27:21,190 So Jim is wondering why people struggle so much to believe that 299 00:27:21,230 --> 00:27:31,406 Jesus was raised from the dead. Okay, good question. Yeah, 300 00:27:31,518 --> 00:27:36,526 yeah, yeah. What else? What questions do you have around these. 301 00:27:36,598 --> 00:27:43,550 These subjects? His name means he saves. Really? How does his life 302 00:27:43,590 --> 00:27:48,446 and death save? Why did he die? Why should I care? What questions 303 00:27:48,478 --> 00:27:59,806 do you have along those lines? Otherwise you're co signing my questions 304 00:27:59,838 --> 00:28:02,302 and that's what we're going with for this series. So you had 305 00:28:02,326 --> 00:28:06,366 your shot. Don't come back. Be like, this series stunk. I didn't 306 00:28:06,398 --> 00:28:12,850 like it. I'm not haunted. I'm just bored. PT. 307 00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:18,420 Jesus become more than human. 308 00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:30,696 Oh, boy. When did the human Jesus become more than human? That's 309 00:28:30,728 --> 00:28:37,832 an easy one. No. Okay, somebody write that down. Yeah, yeah. 310 00:28:37,896 --> 00:29:04,310 No. Yeah. Thank you, Adam. Why do I need to be saved? Yeah. Yes. 311 00:29:06,420 --> 00:29:13,468 What? Like, yeah, somewhere along the line somebody. Yeah, yeah. 312 00:29:13,484 --> 00:29:16,700 Like, why do I need to be saved? I'm a good person. I do good 313 00:29:16,740 --> 00:29:22,204 things for people. Like, I don't need saving. Maybe somebody 314 00:29:22,252 --> 00:29:28,172 does. I don't. Why? Why do I Need saving. That's an. That's an 315 00:29:28,196 --> 00:29:34,086 important question. Yeah. I realize I can go back to the recording 316 00:29:34,118 --> 00:29:37,010 and hear your questions again, so I don't need to write them down. 317 00:29:39,630 --> 00:29:55,850 Anything else, Brandon? Yes. Why is blood and death the mechanism? 318 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:05,040 The Bible seems to be obsessed with blood. Why? I will hand out, 319 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:10,340 by the way, all my preparation for this series. I'm doing a survey, 320 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,528 if you call me a nerd for what I'm about to say. Well, it's my job, 321 00:30:14,584 --> 00:30:18,448 okay? I'm going through the whole New Testament to find every 322 00:30:18,504 --> 00:30:22,512 place where it's referenced, like why he died. I can tell you 323 00:30:22,536 --> 00:30:26,172 in my initial, like, conclusion. I was just saying to 324 00:30:26,196 --> 00:30:31,244 Alicia, like, when you go to see the mountains, it's haunting 325 00:30:31,292 --> 00:30:34,812 in a good way that leaves you speechless. That's what I feel in 326 00:30:34,836 --> 00:30:39,404 looking at this. It is not a simple answer that fits in a box 327 00:30:39,452 --> 00:30:44,652 like this. People talk about the reason for why Jesus died in 328 00:30:44,676 --> 00:30:50,492 a multitude of ways. Yes. They used language about saving us from 329 00:30:50,516 --> 00:30:57,888 our sins as a ransom, rescuing us from the wrath of God. What? God 330 00:30:57,984 --> 00:31:02,016 isn't God love and God's wrathful. Okay, hold on. I can't 331 00:31:02,048 --> 00:31:05,180 reconcile those two things. Well, I'm struggling with that, too. 332 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,928 But all these things, and one of them is like this blood thing. 333 00:31:10,984 --> 00:31:15,872 It's saved by his blood. What? We're going to talk about that the 334 00:31:15,896 --> 00:31:18,830 next six weeks. Kirsten. 335 00:31:19,730 --> 00:31:26,218 So Kira said a lot that we are saved not because of what we do or 336 00:31:26,274 --> 00:31:31,510 what we don't do, but who we are, but because of who Jesus is, 337 00:31:32,450 --> 00:31:36,794 and that's why we're saved. Then I also hear people say that 338 00:31:36,962 --> 00:31:41,710 people who haven't accepted Jesus as their savior aren't saved, 339 00:31:42,210 --> 00:31:42,950 so. 340 00:31:44,060 --> 00:31:52,196 Oh, interesting. Kirsten, when I say it like that, it's actually 341 00:31:52,268 --> 00:31:56,516 me going like, yeah, I think you're right. Kirsten's like, she's 342 00:31:56,548 --> 00:32:00,276 heard that we are saved, quote, unquote, because of who Jesus 343 00:32:00,308 --> 00:32:05,732 is and what Jesus does. But then if you don't. If you don't accept 344 00:32:05,836 --> 00:32:09,362 Jesus as savior, then you're not saved. And she feels a little 345 00:32:09,386 --> 00:32:16,690 bit of contradiction there. That's a good question, Hudson. Why 346 00:32:16,730 --> 00:32:22,850 did Jesus have to suffer so much? Hudson, you're crushing it. 347 00:32:22,890 --> 00:32:26,802 Today we're going to give you a raise. We're going to give you 348 00:32:26,826 --> 00:32:41,960 a prize. Oh, we got another one. Let's go, Hudson. Say that again. 349 00:32:45,780 --> 00:32:50,092 If grace is sufficient for all, why do we need to repent? I 350 00:32:50,116 --> 00:32:52,748 knew you had it in you. You just had to think. You had to think 351 00:32:52,804 --> 00:32:57,580 some. Now they're Coming out. Yes. We're going to do this the next 352 00:32:57,620 --> 00:33:10,566 six weeks. Weeks. You can send me questions. Rosseavenorthchurch.org 353 00:33:10,598 --> 00:33:23,078 you can text me. Jamin, you got a question? Say it again. I couldn't 354 00:33:23,094 --> 00:33:31,872 hear it. Okay. Yeah. So basically, the question, like, if 355 00:33:31,896 --> 00:33:36,272 God is love, why is there. Why, like, there's suffering in this 356 00:33:36,296 --> 00:33:39,920 story. Why is there suffering in the world? Why do so many people 357 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,952 die in wars? Like, can't reconcile that. If God is love, why 358 00:33:43,976 --> 00:33:46,384 do you. Why does he let so many people die in wars, for instance? 359 00:33:46,432 --> 00:33:52,314 Yeah. All right, I'm going to move on. You have time still. Okay. 360 00:33:52,472 --> 00:33:57,062 To send me questions. But the reason I say this is that one thing 361 00:33:57,086 --> 00:34:00,582 I've realized, if I'm going to meet. If part. If Jesus meets me 362 00:34:00,606 --> 00:34:03,606 where I am, if part of the story of Christianity is that God 363 00:34:03,638 --> 00:34:07,782 comes to meet us, I realize that for us, sometimes as Christians, 364 00:34:07,846 --> 00:34:14,118 we're answering questions that people aren't asking. And so, like, 365 00:34:14,174 --> 00:34:17,974 I wanted to know, like, what questions are people asking? So I 366 00:34:17,982 --> 00:34:26,786 went into this Reddit thread for atheists this past week. Spoiler 367 00:34:26,818 --> 00:34:33,922 alert. I got banned yesterday. I was like, why? I didn't do anything. 368 00:34:33,986 --> 00:34:36,722 I didn't proselytize anyone. I looked at the ground rules. I was 369 00:34:36,746 --> 00:34:40,578 like, I didn't troll anyone. I had no personal attacks. I didn't 370 00:34:40,594 --> 00:34:44,190 do this, do that. And then they muted me after they banned me. 371 00:34:44,730 --> 00:34:51,004 Darn. Jeez. Come on now. But a question that has picked up steam. 372 00:34:51,052 --> 00:34:55,360 I was telling Emily about this. Did Jesus ever actually exist? 373 00:34:58,980 --> 00:35:04,556 This thread had tons of comments, likes. And I mean, I'll 374 00:35:04,588 --> 00:35:13,196 give them this. They were very well informed. Now, part of the issue 375 00:35:13,268 --> 00:35:18,388 that we're dealing with in our world is misinformation. Right? But 376 00:35:18,444 --> 00:35:22,596 also it's that everybody has a platform to do what they want with 377 00:35:22,668 --> 00:35:29,300 the information. So we're kind of struggling with both. Right? And 378 00:35:29,340 --> 00:35:33,012 that's why people who, like, belong to Jesus, in my opinion, like, 379 00:35:33,036 --> 00:35:37,780 we need to be the people who are the most committed to truthfulness. 380 00:35:37,940 --> 00:35:42,260 Like, wanting to, like, seek out good sources, be informed, be 381 00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:44,692 wise. We don't want to participate in what I've called the 382 00:35:44,716 --> 00:35:49,502 propaganda swamp. So I probably got banned because I had 383 00:35:49,526 --> 00:35:59,010 a comment that was this long, but I didn't make any faith claims. 384 00:35:59,750 --> 00:36:08,702 I didn't. So I wanted. I did tell Emily I was going to. I want 385 00:36:08,726 --> 00:36:11,886 to address that question to end, and that seems like a stupid 386 00:36:11,918 --> 00:36:15,092 thing to do because what does that have to do with anything? And 387 00:36:15,116 --> 00:36:17,680 then I want to tell you what I think this question is. Really about. 388 00:36:18,300 --> 00:36:20,788 I'm not going to go through this in detail. First of all, I'm 389 00:36:20,804 --> 00:36:25,160 going to tell you historians, it's not a question Jesus existed. 390 00:36:26,300 --> 00:36:29,972 It's not a question. There's a small little niche of people who 391 00:36:29,996 --> 00:36:38,156 want to raise that argument. It's, it's not a good argument because 392 00:36:38,348 --> 00:36:43,996 like I said in here, people are like, well, there are no records 393 00:36:44,028 --> 00:36:50,732 of his life. There shouldn't be. He was a poor non citizen stonemason 394 00:36:50,796 --> 00:36:54,028 who lived in an unremarkable town and got crucified like thousands 395 00:36:54,044 --> 00:36:57,532 of other people. There should be no record of his life. And yet 396 00:36:57,556 --> 00:37:04,412 there is. There should be no record of his life within 30 years 397 00:37:04,436 --> 00:37:08,240 of his death. Christians were being blamed by the emperor for stuff 398 00:37:08,650 --> 00:37:11,282 and they were willing to endure that blame for a myth that 399 00:37:11,306 --> 00:37:16,722 was concocted about a guy who didn't exist. Technically, you could 400 00:37:16,746 --> 00:37:20,562 be right. Odds aren't in your favor. All right, so there was a 401 00:37:20,586 --> 00:37:23,442 fire in Rome and the Emperor Nero said it was the Christians who 402 00:37:23,466 --> 00:37:26,626 did it. And then they all got in trouble and beat up and killed 403 00:37:26,658 --> 00:37:29,650 and stuff. And then that just kept happening for the next three 404 00:37:29,690 --> 00:37:33,170 centuries. For a story that was made up about a guy who never 405 00:37:33,210 --> 00:37:38,128 existed. There were no outside sources about his life in his lifetime. 406 00:37:38,144 --> 00:37:41,376 There were no outside sources about a ton of people from the ancient 407 00:37:41,408 --> 00:37:45,840 world. That means you don't. Ooh, this sounds arrogant. Hold on, 408 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:50,944 back up. That means that potentially you don't have a great 409 00:37:51,032 --> 00:37:58,688 grasp of how history worked in the ancient world. There's a guy 410 00:37:58,704 --> 00:38:01,920 named Tacitus who is a Roman senator and historian who talks about 411 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:10,140 Jesus. In 116 A.D. he existed. I got banned. I love these people. 412 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,312 I love them. I wish I could have stayed in the conversation. 413 00:38:13,376 --> 00:38:16,240 I'm going to try to jump back in. I don't think my odds are very 414 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:24,720 good. I wanted to know what questions they're asking because 415 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:29,120 I care about them. And I wanted to get at like, is this really 416 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:34,578 an historical question for you? And I'm going to tell you that 417 00:38:34,634 --> 00:38:38,002 this might be unfair to them, but it's my conclusion. I don't think 418 00:38:38,026 --> 00:38:42,322 they're really asking a serious historical question. I think 419 00:38:42,346 --> 00:38:47,362 it's an expression of what they feel about Christianity, that 420 00:38:47,386 --> 00:38:53,410 it's not legitimate. And so how do you, like, what do you do 421 00:38:53,450 --> 00:38:56,610 when you don't think something's legitimate? You do everything 422 00:38:56,650 --> 00:39:04,400 you can to erase it. And they're right. Christianity has failed 423 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:09,520 to be a consistent, legitimate source of healing and hope for our 424 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:14,032 world. I saw in this thread they were like, everybody was going 425 00:39:14,056 --> 00:39:17,472 off course about whether he existed or not. They were instead 426 00:39:17,536 --> 00:39:21,472 talking about how Christians are. And that's when I knew they 427 00:39:21,496 --> 00:39:23,808 weren't asking whether he existed or not. They're like, yeah, 428 00:39:23,824 --> 00:39:27,560 but look at the Inquisition. Look at this. Look at, look at what 429 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:32,008 happened to the, to the Native Americans. And I was like, yes, yes, 430 00:39:32,184 --> 00:39:36,072 it's terrible. They're atrocities, you're right. What were 431 00:39:36,096 --> 00:39:41,608 they saying? We're haunted by Christianity in a bad way and I'm 432 00:39:41,624 --> 00:39:50,136 sick of it. Why is it haunting us in a good way? These are the questions 433 00:39:50,168 --> 00:39:54,620 I want to pursue in the next six weeks. That's why I want to get 434 00:39:54,660 --> 00:39:57,660 at these questions. If we drive at these questions, like why 435 00:39:57,700 --> 00:40:02,396 was the way he lived so haunting in a good way that people 436 00:40:02,468 --> 00:40:05,996 chose to go with him even at great cost to themselves? They didn't 437 00:40:06,028 --> 00:40:09,740 bring harm to others. They were willing to have arm out come 438 00:40:09,780 --> 00:40:20,470 to them. Christianity was the most legit thing because these answers 439 00:40:20,550 --> 00:40:26,850 matter to ordinary people on Monday and Tuesday, not just Sunday. 440 00:40:29,470 --> 00:40:33,690 For these people, Jesus wasn't a ghost story, a myth or a theory. 441 00:40:35,230 --> 00:40:41,142 He was a dead man walking who haunted and saved people. And like 442 00:40:41,166 --> 00:40:48,032 I said, he wants to haunt us and save us too, in a good way. Like 443 00:40:48,056 --> 00:40:52,192 I said, I just wanted to introduce this today. I hope that 444 00:40:52,216 --> 00:40:56,080 you'll keep coming back for the whole series as we explore these 445 00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:12,586 questions and pursue this mystery. Let's pray. Lord, I pray 446 00:41:12,618 --> 00:41:22,150 that you would help us to see you in a way that we never have before. 447 00:41:25,490 --> 00:41:31,178 I mean that, Lord, help us all to see you in a way we never have 448 00:41:31,234 --> 00:41:36,298 before. To discover your healing and hope like we never have 449 00:41:36,354 --> 00:41:45,620 before. To know what it means that you save, to experience that 450 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,640 and to offer it as a blessing to the world. It's in Jesus name 451 00:41:51,680 --> 00:42:10,242 I pray. Amen. I would invite you to stand and. 452 00:42:10,266 --> 00:42:13,442 Sing this with us. This is a another new song I was talking about. 453 00:42:13,466 --> 00:42:14,910 It's called Made for More. 454 00:42:19,930 --> 00:42:25,138 Taking the words and as we think ahead, answering some of these 455 00:42:25,194 --> 00:42:26,098 questions or. 456 00:42:26,154 --> 00:42:29,280 Even just kind of working through them. 457 00:42:35,980 --> 00:42:38,240 Just exploring this idea that. 458 00:42:41,020 --> 00:42:41,524 There'S a. 459 00:42:41,532 --> 00:42:43,200 Depth of purpose that we have. 460 00:42:57,770 --> 00:43:11,150 Cause. I know who you are the cross of salvation was only the star 461 00:43:13,610 --> 00:43:29,052 Now I am chosen free and forgiven I have a future and it's 462 00:43:29,116 --> 00:43:38,876 worth the living cause I wasn't made to be tempting a grave 463 00:43:38,988 --> 00:43:48,812 I was called by name Born and raised back to life again I was made 464 00:43:48,916 --> 00:43:49,980 for more. 465 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:54,320 So. 466 00:43:54,360 --> 00:44:01,648 Why would I make a bend my shame When a fountain of grace is 467 00:44:01,704 --> 00:44:09,420 running my way I know I am yours I was made for more. 468 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:12,576 I. 469 00:44:12,648 --> 00:44:24,120 Know I am cuz I know who you are the cross of salvation. 470 00:44:26,540 --> 00:44:27,044 Was. 471 00:44:27,132 --> 00:44:43,290 Only the sun Now I am chosen free and forgiven I have a future 472 00:44:45,670 --> 00:44:55,422 and it's worth the living cause I wasn't made to be 10 in a 473 00:44:55,446 --> 00:45:02,810 grave I was called by name Born and raised back to life again 474 00:45:03,750 --> 00:45:15,848 I was faithful why would I make a bend my shame When a mountain 475 00:45:15,944 --> 00:45:25,220 of grace is running my way I know I am yours I was made for more 476 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:42,750 Hallelujah you call my name thanks to my singer your praise Hallelujah 477 00:45:42,910 --> 00:45:53,422 you buried my past I'm not going back I wasn't made to be 10 478 00:45:53,526 --> 00:46:00,878 in the grave I was called by name Born and raised back to life 479 00:46:01,014 --> 00:46:13,520 again I was made for more so why would I make a bed of my shame 480 00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:20,832 When a fountain of face cause running my way I know I am yours 481 00:46:20,976 --> 00:46:30,194 and I was made for more why would I make so why would I make 482 00:46:30,362 --> 00:46:37,122 a bed in my shame When a fountain of grace is running my way 483 00:46:37,226 --> 00:46:43,550 I know I am yours and I was made for more. 484 00:46:48,890 --> 00:46:49,630 So. 485 00:46:51,370 --> 00:46:58,460 I was just Is this on? Yes, There we go. Our church dreams of 486 00:46:58,500 --> 00:47:01,964 being a legitimate church. That's why we say we want to exact 487 00:47:02,012 --> 00:47:06,844 we exist to make a lasting impact in our community and our church 488 00:47:06,892 --> 00:47:09,852 has. I just want to make it known we've been a friend to atheists. 489 00:47:09,916 --> 00:47:13,132 At one time our greatest evangelist was an atheist friend 490 00:47:13,156 --> 00:47:15,852 in the community who invited people to our church. That's the 491 00:47:15,876 --> 00:47:19,372 reason that Sloan was here from Sloan's Corners because they 492 00:47:19,396 --> 00:47:27,092 were invited by an atheist. So that's part of this series too. We 493 00:47:27,116 --> 00:47:30,440 want to like keep driving toward being that legitimate church. 494 00:47:31,020 --> 00:47:35,060 Thank you for being with us today. I pray that you take the light 495 00:47:35,100 --> 00:47:40,164 of Jesus with you and that he continues to haunt you with his goodness 496 00:47:40,212 --> 00:47:42,720 in this season. Have a good week. 497 00:47:48,150 --> 00:47:52,622 Thank you for participating in the conversation happening at Heaven 498 00:47:52,686 --> 00:47:57,758 Earth Church. Your next opportunity to do so live is this 499 00:47:57,814 --> 00:48:03,342 Sunday morning, 9:30am Eastern Time, either at the main campus at 500 00:48:03,366 --> 00:48:09,326 309 East Main in Whiteland, Indiana or online at YouTube Live. 501 00:48:09,478 --> 00:48:16,710 That's@YouTube.com Heaven Earth Church. The audio podcast is 502 00:48:16,750 --> 00:48:23,158 always available at Apple Podcast and on Spotify. You can help 503 00:48:23,214 --> 00:48:27,590 others find out about the Heaven Earth Church podcast by going 504 00:48:27,630 --> 00:48:32,502 to Apple Podcasts and or Spotify and leaving a five star rating 505 00:48:32,646 --> 00:48:36,982 and your review instructions on how to do just that and links 506 00:48:37,046 --> 00:48:40,892 are in the show notes. You can always find out more by going to 507 00:48:40,916 --> 00:48:46,348 the church website heavenearthchurch.org we. 508 00:48:46,404 --> 00:48:49,612 Want to thank you for spending time with us today My name is Ross 509 00:48:49,676 --> 00:48:53,052 Stackhouse, the pastor to Heaven Earth Church, and you may 510 00:48:53,076 --> 00:48:56,028 think out there that your story is over, but in fact, your 511 00:48:56,084 --> 00:49:00,284 faith story may just be beginning. If you want more information 512 00:49:00,372 --> 00:49:03,004 about our church or you're interested in the next step, you 513 00:49:03,012 --> 00:49:06,010 can go to heavenearthchurch.org Otherwise, 514 00:49:06,090 --> 00:49:09,194 we look forward to being with you next time at the Heaven Earth 515 00:49:09,242 --> 00:49:09,930 Church podcast.