1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,280 Kevin Mako: Hello, product innovators. Today we learn from one of the world's leading CAD software pioneers on Agile Hardware Development and Additive Manufacturing. 2 00:00:07,540 --> 00:00:15,560 Narrator: You're listening to the Product Startup Podcast, a show to learn from top leaders in product development, prototyping, manufacturing, product selling, and everything in between. 3 00:00:15,780 --> 00:00:19,760 Narrator: Hosted by Kevin Mako, the leading expert on product development for physical product startups, 4 00:00:20,180 --> 00:00:25,280 Narrator: sponsored by PTC's two best-in-class 3D CAD product software solutions, Onshape, and Creo, 5 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,700 Narrator: and produced by Mako Design + Invent, the original firm providing world-class consumer product 6 00:00:29,700 --> 00:00:34,060 Narrator: development services tailored specifically to startups, small manufacturers, and inventors. 7 00:00:34,780 --> 00:00:43,160 Kevin Mako: Welcome back, everyone. Today, I'm very excited to introduce Jon Hirschtick to the show. John is the co-founder of both SOLIDWORKS and Onshape. In his 42 years of building these 8 00:00:43,160 --> 00:00:48,220 Kevin Mako: platforms, his software has been used to design more physical consumer products than anything else on Earth. 9 00:00:48,420 --> 00:00:54,940 Kevin Mako: Onshape alone has over 3 million designers on the cloud software platform. Today, John is going to share some valuable knowledge for inventors' startups and 10 00:00:54,940 --> 00:00:59,360 Kevin Mako: small manufacturers on why agile product development is so important for hardware startups. 11 00:00:59,700 --> 00:01:08,120 Kevin Mako: what additive manufacturing can do to facilitate agile development and how modern tools are making easier than ever to get to market faster at a higher quality and iteratively. 12 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:15,260 Kevin Mako: Now on to the episode. Hi, John. Welcome to the show. Kevin, great to be here. Really excited to have you on today. 13 00:01:15,540 --> 00:01:21,720 Kevin Mako: You are one of the pioneers of CAD software. Millions and millions of users around the world use your 14 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:26,440 Kevin Mako: software from the early days of SOLIDWORKS to the incredible on-shaped software, which is used by over 15 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:33,460 Kevin Mako: three million people around the world now to design the next great innovations. You've been doing this for over 40 years. 16 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:41,080 Kevin Mako: So we're really excited today to talk about, first of all, I want to know the story, how you got from where you are then to the leader that you are today. And then we'll 17 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:45,840 Kevin Mako: get into what's happening in the industry, especially around additive manufacturing and agile 18 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:52,180 Jon Hirschtick: design. Yeah, great. So I grew up in Chicago. I went to Chicago public schools. I went to 19 00:01:52,180 --> 00:02:00,480 Jon Hirschtick: high school in Displains, Illinois, at the school where they filmed the movie The Breakfast Club, by the way, small trivia point. 20 00:02:00,660 --> 00:02:09,040 Jon Hirschtick: In that building, I learned both drafting on paper and computer programming. So those turned out to be two relevant skills. I was a magician when I was a kid. 21 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:14,260 Jon Hirschtick: I sold stamps with my father on the weekend stamps to collectors. It was a side business he had, 22 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:19,120 Jon Hirschtick: and I learned from him a ton about how to treat customers right, which is something I really 23 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:25,140 Jon Hirschtick: I believe in. I majored in mechanical engineering and product design, you know, physical product design at MIT. 24 00:02:25,340 --> 00:02:31,440 Jon Hirschtick: And I did a summer internship because I knew how to program computers and I knew about mechanical engineering. 25 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:41,460 Jon Hirschtick: I ended up at computer vision for an internship in 1981. And I've worked on CAD and PDM systems ever since. I worked in a number of companies. I had a startup 26 00:02:41,460 --> 00:02:48,180 Jon Hirschtick: before SOLIDWORKS. And most notably founded SOLIDWORKS was a long time CEO. They are co-founded with some 27 00:02:48,180 --> 00:02:56,020 Jon Hirschtick: other people stayed 18 years and then left and co-founded Onshape and CEO there for a while. And we sold that to PTC where I am now. 28 00:02:56,220 --> 00:03:01,740 Jon Hirschtick: Well, I also played professional Blackjack on the MIT Blackjack team. That's another little thing. And I learned from that too. 29 00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:09,500 Kevin Mako: Everything contributes, you know. So let's talk about what's happening in the world of product development, specifically around additive manufacturing and agile. 30 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:18,000 Kevin Mako: And then most importantly, what are the tools that are enabling this to happen? I know we use obviously Onshape and PTC software all the time at the design house. 31 00:03:18,180 --> 00:03:22,920 Kevin Mako: The key there is understanding how that actually trickles back to the technologies that are emerging, 32 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:28,720 Kevin Mako: simply to make it easier, faster, better, higher quality, more innovative, et cetera, 33 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:37,180 Jon Hirschtick: for hardware startups to get their new ideas out to the real market. Okay, well, those are great topics, Kevin. Happy to talk about this. Let's start with Agile. 34 00:03:37,460 --> 00:03:44,780 Jon Hirschtick: In summary, we're seeing hardware developers change the process they use. Maybe not you because it sounds like you were ahead of the curve with Agile-type thinking. 35 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:53,000 Jon Hirschtick: But everywhere I go, we're seeing people basically, build hardware, the way they build software, a little bit more moving in that direction. 36 00:03:53,260 --> 00:03:57,900 Jon Hirschtick: Using an agile process, what are we mean by agile process? Well, there's no two uses of agile 37 00:03:57,900 --> 00:04:07,120 Jon Hirschtick: that are same. Everyone does agile a little differently, but generally what it means is working in sprints, short periods of time, a series of short sprints 38 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:16,420 Jon Hirschtick: instead of a long Gant chart for a year or two. You see a sprint plan for a few weeks, and then we readjust the next few weeks plan. Just that alone can be part of agile. 39 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:23,620 Jon Hirschtick: Then there's an emphasis on producing at the end of each sprint as close as possible to a deliverable product. Then there's 40 00:04:23,620 --> 00:04:31,880 Jon Hirschtick: an attitude of hyper collaboration where it works. It really works. Anyone who's interested can look at the Agile Manifesto Online. 41 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:37,380 Jon Hirschtick: Atlassian, a maker of Jira, they have fantastic resources about Agile Online. 42 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:46,900 Jon Hirschtick: And soon, I'm publishing a white paper with Professor Stephen Eppinger of MIT, world expert on product design process that will be coming out. 43 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:54,780 Jon Hirschtick: Many things, we're going to have a lot of discussion about Agile at our upcoming LiveWorks conference in May 15th through 18th in Boston. So anyway, lots to learn 44 00:04:54,780 --> 00:05:01,320 Jon Hirschtick: about Agile. So what we're seeing, why are we seeing people do this? I think there's four reasons why agile, why now? 45 00:05:01,460 --> 00:05:10,320 Jon Hirschtick: One is everyone who's building hardware is building software. I'm sure you see that. Many of your products would have software. And the software community has gone all agile, 46 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:19,260 Jon Hirschtick: basically. From none of it, when I got into software, or even 20 years ago, no one ever heard of the word agile. Today, it's the standard. So think about that, huge shift. 47 00:05:19,540 --> 00:05:20,820 Jon Hirschtick: So software is agile. Two, 48 00:05:21,500 --> 00:05:30,780 Jon Hirschtick: the workforce that you have today. Joining the workforce, they're naturally agile thinkers. They're used to real-time collaboration. They're used to working more quickly. 49 00:05:30,980 --> 00:05:38,220 Jon Hirschtick: I'm sure you see that in the emerging people you hire. I know I see it. They're comfortable with the tools. They don't send paper mail. 50 00:05:38,220 --> 00:05:45,080 Jon Hirschtick: they communicate by text, Discord, Slack. It's a different world. Real-time collaboration globally, 51 00:05:45,420 --> 00:05:51,200 Jon Hirschtick: that's daily life for them in their classes and their video games. So software workforce. Third reason 52 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:57,100 Jon Hirschtick: is change the world of the product design of the world around them, changing constantly at rates we 53 00:05:57,100 --> 00:06:02,400 Jon Hirschtick: never saw. I mean changes in, of course, in supply chain, who's available to make things, 54 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:08,800 Jon Hirschtick: the availability of components, the availability of raw materials, the costs you're paying for all these things, more volatility than ever. 55 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:16,540 Jon Hirschtick: The prices that you can charge for products, more volatile than ever, the quantities you need to produce things in, more volatile than ever, 56 00:06:16,700 --> 00:06:25,100 Jon Hirschtick: who's on your team, where they're working. Even the consumer preferences change faster than ever. As I talk to our customers, you would know this better than I would. 57 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:34,680 Jon Hirschtick: So in this world of volatile change all around the product developer, you need a process that can adapt to that. You know, not, oh, well, we set our plan a year ago. 58 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:43,360 Jon Hirschtick: Well, who can set a plan for a year these days and stay on it. You have to adjust and replant. And then finally, the fourth reason is the tools 59 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:49,220 Jon Hirschtick: are there. You can do Agile on paper if you want, but in the software world, new tools came on GitHub, 60 00:06:49,540 --> 00:06:59,220 Jon Hirschtick: Jira. In the hardware world, we use some of those same tools, Jira, but you have Onshape that we've built, Arena, you have, and hardware developers are using things 61 00:06:59,220 --> 00:07:06,540 Jon Hirschtick: like Miro and SmartSheet. All these things are sort of the signature tools. So the four reasons are software, workforce, 62 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:11,300 Jon Hirschtick: change and tools are all converging to 63 00:07:11,300 --> 00:07:19,600 Kevin Mako: drive agile in hardware development. So effective, especially for hardware startups, because hardware startups have this great advantage over the big corporations. 64 00:07:19,900 --> 00:07:25,180 Kevin Mako: They can move fast. They're nimble. You've got innovative ideas that you're bringing to the table. I mean, that's the invention. 65 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:34,260 Kevin Mako: Most of the clients have come to macro design, they've come up with some improvement or reduced to pain point or saw a connection between two objects that would make it better. 66 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,640 Kevin Mako: Whatever the innovation might be, you've come up with some. 67 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:42,680 Jon Hirschtick: Stroke of genius, let's call it, and you figured out that cornivation. Can I just reflect on that for a moment? You said startups. 68 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:51,540 Jon Hirschtick: What's interesting to me, Kevin, I don't know if you agree, is today, I would say the cool product developers are startups or people want to work like startups. You get a lot 69 00:07:51,540 --> 00:07:59,620 Jon Hirschtick: of large companies today that come to us and say, John, we're changing the way we work. We're interested in using it, I mean big companies. You would know the names. 70 00:07:59,740 --> 00:08:05,200 Jon Hirschtick: They want to work like Startups, it used to be people would come to us and say, we want to build a product the way the big companies do. 71 00:08:05,580 --> 00:08:14,480 Jon Hirschtick: Now, people are like, we want to work like a startup. Because in the big industries, they're realizing that they've got to change the processes. So I have CTOs of 72 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:21,720 Jon Hirschtick: multi-billion dollar companies coming in to talk to meet with us in our work at PTC and Unshap and saying, John, we want to work like a startup. 73 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:28,820 Jon Hirschtick: How do we do it? How do we get our team to be agile, innovative, faster cycle times, more innovation? They get it. And they're watching it happen. 74 00:08:28,820 --> 00:08:34,640 Kevin Mako: And thinking like a startup is very in vogue, even if you're not a startup. I'm glad you brought that up because it's quite interesting. 75 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:40,360 Kevin Mako: Over the years, I've got a huge influx, especially more recently from big companies that are 76 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:47,220 Kevin Mako: hiring us, even though we're specifically a design for manufacturing firm for startups. They're calling us, and we've got a whole bunch of corporate clients. 77 00:08:47,340 --> 00:08:54,740 Kevin Mako: You can see some of the names on our website. They say, we want that style of product development in some old dodgy industry or maybe it's 78 00:08:54,740 --> 00:09:02,660 Kevin Mako: like a new hot product that they're trying to really innovate and be fresh and modern and forward thinking or they want to learn how to develop agile like a startup because 79 00:09:02,660 --> 00:09:07,260 Kevin Mako: the reality is, especially from what we see in the startup world, especially from what you talked about regarding 80 00:09:07,260 --> 00:09:11,820 Kevin Mako: those four points is, I think most startups want to be and generally are developing the agile 81 00:09:11,820 --> 00:09:15,920 Kevin Mako: framework. If we look all the way back to product development, one of the core things that 82 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:23,280 Kevin Mako: most startups want to do is design and engineer something to get to an end state that you mentioned, which is the prototype, break the prototype to learn from it. 83 00:09:23,380 --> 00:09:28,000 Kevin Mako: That's what the engineers want to do. Obviously, the client wants to like see it and play with it and possibly market it. 84 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:32,600 Kevin Mako: and then tweak and refine based on both the internal engineering feedback. How do we make it better? 85 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:42,760 Kevin Mako: But also external collaborative feedback with potential stakeholders, primarily customers, especially as you evolve your product from a rough prototype into a refined into maybe 86 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:48,060 Kevin Mako: a short production run. And that's what we can talk about soon with additive. But how do we actually start getting both 87 00:09:48,060 --> 00:09:55,960 Kevin Mako: internal feedback from engineering and other stakeholders like investors, the inventor, etc., as well as external feedback from the market, the real market? 88 00:09:56,020 --> 00:10:03,480 Kevin Mako: And that allows you to pivot quickly, modify your design and basically have that software agile framework in a hardware environment. 89 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:08,880 Kevin Mako: Now, the one thing I want to mention about the difference, I would say, between software agile and hardware agile. 90 00:10:09,260 --> 00:10:18,780 Kevin Mako: And this is something that we profess quite heavily, especially from developing a new product as a new startup brand, is unlike software, you do need to focus on quality with 91 00:10:18,780 --> 00:10:25,440 Kevin Mako: your release. Whereas in hardware, you can't patch fix it. And there's no bug fix. So you have to execute 92 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:30,480 Kevin Mako: with quality and therefore you can't try and be everything to everyone or even focus on MVP 93 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:35,100 Kevin Mako: or even just pre-released with something that's not quite flushed out because your product will sink 94 00:10:35,100 --> 00:10:40,440 Kevin Mako: right away. So that's why the slight difference is focus on less features, but high quality 95 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:46,480 Kevin Mako: of those features and iterate in an agile framework, exactly as you're talking about. Excellent point. 96 00:10:46,780 --> 00:10:55,380 Kevin Mako: So let's talk a bit about additive because that's really a major layer of agile, especially in the hardware sphere where we get to kind of mimic some of the benefits of software 97 00:10:55,440 --> 00:11:00,140 Jon Hirschtick: agile, but actually start doing them in the hardware world now. You probably know as much about 98 00:11:00,140 --> 00:11:07,340 Jon Hirschtick: additive as I do, but I'll tell you, first of all, I found additive a long time, Kevin, longer than most people know it existed. I knew Professor L.A. 99 00:11:07,420 --> 00:11:14,760 Jon Hirschtick: Sacks at MIT in the 80s when he was starting to talk about 3D printing, a real pioneer. I watched the first machines come out. I was 100 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:22,940 Jon Hirschtick: aware of additive, you know, literally, it's been around 30 years. And then I was an advisor to companies like Z-Corp 20 years ago. 101 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:29,280 Jon Hirschtick: So additive's been around a long time. So when I see a Some people are like, oh, yeah, well, additive, you know, we've been using that for years, 102 00:11:29,540 --> 00:11:37,060 Jon Hirschtick: and, you know, I checked it out a few years ago. Well, it's changing every year, okay? When I hear the word additive or 3D printing, I think about, like, the way computers are, 103 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:42,760 Jon Hirschtick: you know, like you can say, well, 20 years ago, I looked at what a computer was and I thought I understood it. Well, it all changes. 104 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:51,840 Jon Hirschtick: If you haven't really looked at it, in fact, I think if you're going to go to any convention, we want you to come to LiveWorks for PTC, but another type of convention, go look 105 00:11:51,840 --> 00:12:00,160 Jon Hirschtick: at 3D printing because it changes every year, what the machines are capable. the materials, the techniques, the way people are using it, the level of support you get with 106 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:06,260 Jon Hirschtick: software, it's all changing every year. This is my view. So when I go in to see my customers, 107 00:12:06,700 --> 00:12:13,140 Jon Hirschtick: whether there are people in big companies, small companies, even universities, I'm seeing changes in how it's being used. 108 00:12:13,300 --> 00:12:20,520 Jon Hirschtick: So it's being used, I would say, at 100%, it's no longer whether you use it or not, because everyone's using it. The question is, how are you using it? 109 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:29,980 Jon Hirschtick: Some people I'll call not fixtures or tooling, but ancillary equipment. The things you have to generally build 110 00:12:29,980 --> 00:12:35,700 Jon Hirschtick: besides your product, test rigs, you might call that tooling, I guess, is fair enough. But it's not just 111 00:12:35,700 --> 00:12:42,320 Jon Hirschtick: tooling as in things that, fixtures that hold things while they're machining. I go to my customers and I see it being used in such a variety of way. 112 00:12:42,540 --> 00:12:50,760 Jon Hirschtick: And end user parts, it's no longer just the trade show example or something to show from the lab, you know, look at this weird thing we made. I'm seeing 113 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:57,080 Jon Hirschtick: incredible parts that are being added manufactured. And so basically staying at the forefront, 114 00:12:57,300 --> 00:13:01,800 Jon Hirschtick: understanding what the machines are capable of the materials is often where the action is, 115 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:07,320 Kevin Mako: I think. People focus in the machines, but the materials are where you should keep your eyes open, in my opinion. 116 00:13:07,660 --> 00:13:17,540 Kevin Mako: The beauty, especially in the prototyping world, is that there are so many more tools to allow us essentially to closely mimic what the end mass manufactured produced 117 00:13:17,540 --> 00:13:24,280 Kevin Mako: unit is going to work like, feel like, look like. So you can much more quickly de-risk your 118 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:32,980 Kevin Mako: eventual manufacturing by bringing more and more of that manufacturing technology that used to require very expensive tooling in order just to test. 119 00:13:33,180 --> 00:13:43,040 Kevin Mako: You can now that bring so many of those tools, materials, et cetera, into the prototyping sphere to allow you to execute on the end product quicker, faster, more iterative, etc. 120 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:51,500 Kevin Mako: There's many, many benefits in every year to become more and more, but we're seeing it now to the point where if we're doing like a final prototype pre-production, 121 00:13:52,160 --> 00:14:00,300 Kevin Mako: it is nearly as good as the final production, sometimes even better in a number of different ways, so that you can really accurately be running a series of tests. 122 00:14:00,540 --> 00:14:05,880 Kevin Mako: So initially, you want to be working on your physical test to ensure that the engineering and the reliability is sound, 123 00:14:06,140 --> 00:14:09,460 Kevin Mako: but again, as mentioned before, thinking about your end market testing, which is what's so 124 00:14:09,460 --> 00:14:14,440 Kevin Mako: powerful about crowdfunding as well, because you can now take a really good pre-production prototype 125 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:18,640 Kevin Mako: that's staged and ready to go into manufacturing and just present that to the market in a whole 126 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:24,760 Kevin Mako: variety of ways. Obviously, you have your crowdfunding campaigns, but there's pre-orders and letter of intents and partnership interest and all the rest. 127 00:14:25,180 --> 00:14:32,400 Kevin Mako: Lots of different ways to sell before you've even started producing product. But with a product, especially in a hardware space, that you are comfortable 128 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:38,840 Jon Hirschtick: enough that is 99.9% ready for and prepared and designed for manufacturing. 129 00:14:39,380 --> 00:14:48,620 Jon Hirschtick: And by the way, when I said the tools, going back to Agile, tying these together, and you already did in a big way, but additive is one of the tools that enable Agile. 130 00:14:48,820 --> 00:14:56,280 Jon Hirschtick: You can come a lot closer with additive. Additive is a big tool in the box to enable some of that. So additive is on that list 131 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:02,680 Jon Hirschtick: of when I said the fourth reason for Agile is tools. Additive is one of those tools. It's not just software tools like OnShap. 132 00:15:02,780 --> 00:15:10,460 Jon Hirschtick: I've been getting out and visiting customers and in the first three months of 2003, I visited 13 user sites on site. 133 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:18,160 Kevin Mako: So I love doing that. I'm seeing so many interesting things there. Let's talk a bit about the software tools that are enabling all this to happen. 134 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:24,140 Kevin Mako: Onshape has obviously a major leaps and bounds in terms of connecting the concept design through to 135 00:15:24,140 --> 00:15:30,180 Kevin Mako: and including not only the prototyping and the additive manufacturing, but all the way through to actual full production as well. 136 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,000 Kevin Mako: Talk a bit about the advantages of the tool sets, especially around 137 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:43,080 Jon Hirschtick: software, to enable companies like ours at Backo Design to be able to execute these products well for new hardware products. Well, we built Onshape to solve the problem. 138 00:15:43,100 --> 00:15:48,120 Jon Hirschtick: problems that we saw. What I saw were the problems people had, especially as they try to enter 139 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:53,960 Jon Hirschtick: the modern world of product development, with getting access to software, configuring a computer, installing software. 140 00:15:54,080 --> 00:16:03,660 Jon Hirschtick: First of all, what people want to be is innovative and fast these days and maybe save staff hours and money. Those are big things on people's minds. So with solvers, 141 00:16:03,780 --> 00:16:10,220 Jon Hirschtick: you set up a special computer, you know, you know what it's like you're getting your team comes to, oh, we need graphics card and configuration. 142 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:17,520 Jon Hirschtick: I need special person to set it all up. And we device driver and all this stuff who has time for that anymore i mean you're working with teams all over 143 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:27,120 Jon Hirschtick: the world you're adding new people so that's the first issue then there's a software oh my gosh you know downloads install service packs license codes crazy click-throughs you know 144 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:34,400 Jon Hirschtick: entering these long codes and license code servers and then by the way the big problem is who's on what version of the system 145 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,400 Jon Hirschtick: you know this come and you deal with it all the time you're just so used to it's what my partner 146 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:46,440 Jon Hirschtick: john mackling calls a ski boot problem it's uncomfortable we get so used to it you just part of life. And then you got the issue of files, data stored in files. 147 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:56,040 Jon Hirschtick: Essentially, when we built SOLIDWORKS, like all the systems of its era, the database we used was C colon backslash. That's the 148 00:16:56,040 --> 00:17:03,860 Jon Hirschtick: database. It's files. You know, it's just stuck on your disk and files. What does that mean? Well, it means that in order for you to work, you need a copy of files. 149 00:17:04,260 --> 00:17:13,980 Jon Hirschtick: And now as soon as there's copies, there's problem. Well, we'll install a PDM server. Oh, that's a great idea. Now we're making more copies of files and we're locking them. 150 00:17:14,180 --> 00:17:22,480 Jon Hirschtick: Like, those things are pain in the ass. They slow you out. And people were afraid to make changes. We looked at those problems and we saw what cloud web and mobile were about. 151 00:17:22,700 --> 00:17:31,400 Jon Hirschtick: What was happening was Salesforce, Workday, NetSuite, Zendesk, Google Docs. Basically, everything was being built with cloud native. 152 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:39,200 Jon Hirschtick: Now with cloud native, that's not like hosting the app in the cloud. That's not what it's about. It's about rethinking the app to use a different architecture. 153 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:45,600 Jon Hirschtick: So all those systems I just mentioned, there are no files. There's nothing installed, or there's no issue with versions of the system. 154 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:54,860 Jon Hirschtick: Everyone uses the same master instance because it's in one place in the cloud. Your tools and your data are in one place in the cloud, a database that contains design iterations 155 00:17:54,860 --> 00:18:01,820 Jon Hirschtick: and changes to your models. Incredibly powerful. The result is anyone can use it anywhere. You don't have to buy special computers anymore. 156 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:10,140 Jon Hirschtick: Sorry, if you've got a person whose job it is is to configure special computers, they're going to have to go to work building more innovative products for your company instead. 157 00:18:10,140 --> 00:18:17,980 Jon Hirschtick: We run on phones and tablets. Younger people expect that. And a lot of people are like, well, John, we run our CAD workstations in the office. 158 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:27,360 Jon Hirschtick: Well, good luck competing with people who are working around the clock, around the globe. You add a new person, no problem. You just go to the console, share data with that, boom. 159 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:35,620 Jon Hirschtick: So the result is teams work faster. They're more innovative. They save a ton of people's money and time. And it's built for the modern era. 160 00:18:35,700 --> 00:18:43,840 Kevin Mako: That's what we're doing with Anshay. People told me it was a crazy idea, but people told me SOLIDWORKS. was a crazy idea. A big part of the value of OnShap is what you mentioned. 161 00:18:44,100 --> 00:18:51,600 Kevin Mako: Because you have OnShap on the cloud, you can now be collaborative. And that's a huge deal. Not only can you check it anywhere from any device at any time. 162 00:18:51,780 --> 00:18:59,680 Kevin Mako: And even you mentioned the phone and tablet. Yes, most CAD designers still want to work at a desk or a workstation. However, how often are you caught in a situation 163 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:08,680 Kevin Mako: either on site or you're on the train or whatever else? You need to just quickly even check something or rotate or send an image or maybe make a light adjustment, whatever else. 164 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:14,140 Kevin Mako: Well, the phones and tablets are becoming more and more powerful where you can at least do small, simple tweaks in real 165 00:19:14,140 --> 00:19:21,180 Kevin Mako: time. The fact that you've got this all built on the cloud allows you that massive layer that you kind of alluded to there, which is collaboration. 166 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:30,700 Kevin Mako: Now we can have people all over the world working on the same file at the same time, saving version history and edit history as opposed to saving files to some core drive. 167 00:19:30,740 --> 00:19:38,840 Kevin Mako: It's all done automatically and simply. So that really becomes very powerful. And I want you to go into it a bit. Now that we kind of an understanding of how CAD software 168 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:44,360 Kevin Mako: should and is built now in the cloud for modern design, how does that apply to the coordination 169 00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:49,540 Jon Hirschtick: between prototyping into short run manufacturing and then into full scale manufacturing? 170 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:56,600 Jon Hirschtick: Great question, Kevin. I'm going to start by reflecting that Onshape. We say it's a CAD system that has PDM. 171 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:02,680 Jon Hirschtick: It's really, Onshape really is built as a PDM system at its core with CAD built around it. 172 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:07,780 Jon Hirschtick: So what it means is we had this design goal, like I listen to your podcast and you talk about, what are the key features? 173 00:20:07,980 --> 00:20:17,960 Jon Hirschtick: One of our key philosophies was have one system that would allow this breakthrough idea that you could have both speed and freedom and rigor. So as your process 174 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:22,680 Jon Hirschtick: goes along, Unshap's perfect because when you're just creative firing away, you can design 175 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:31,360 Jon Hirschtick: fearlessly, as my colleague Greg Brown says, he says, you can design fearlessly in OnShape. When it comes time to have the rigor later in your process of, you know, release to 176 00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:32,120 Jon Hirschtick: manufacturing, 177 00:20:33,220 --> 00:20:41,020 Jon Hirschtick: approvals, notifications, design reviews, clear, traceable release management. We have that too, but we don't sacrifice one for the other. 178 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:47,860 Jon Hirschtick: The rigor doesn't mean you give up speed and freedom, and the speed and freedom doesn't mean you give up rigor. You can choose those. You can get started 179 00:20:47,860 --> 00:20:54,820 Jon Hirschtick: with Onshape without realizing there's PDM at all. You can just go, that was our intent. Many users might be listening to this insane. Onshape has PDM. 180 00:20:54,920 --> 00:21:01,960 Jon Hirschtick: I didn't even know that. You probably just did something simple. You don't need it. It doesn't get in the way. But when you need it, it's right there And it's extremely powerful. 181 00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:10,600 Jon Hirschtick: Customized workflows, all these cool things, checking at release, that it meets certain conditions and so forth. We do all those things. So the idea of speed and 182 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:17,920 Kevin Mako: rigor fitting together in one system was very much a design goal of ours, that it could evolve as your design grows through those phases you talk about. 183 00:21:18,260 --> 00:21:19,740 Kevin Mako: Amazing. John, before I let you go, 184 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:26,300 Jon Hirschtick: where can people go to download a copy of Onshape? I think you guys are offering it for free for people to test out as well. Well, we do. 185 00:21:26,460 --> 00:21:35,620 Jon Hirschtick: First of all, there's nothing to download. You can go to OnShape.com to learn more at OnShape.com, yes, we have a free plan that's aimed at open source projects, 186 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:42,300 Jon Hirschtick: maker community, things like that. If you really are professional, which I know your podcast is aimed at, then you really want to use our pro version. 187 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:48,980 Jon Hirschtick: Go to our website and click on some things and we can set you up in a free trial of our pro version, which is what I recommend for professionals 188 00:21:48,980 --> 00:21:55,800 Jon Hirschtick: out there. You don't just go to the free plan and play with it. You won't really understand what's about getting into our professional trial, get some training. 189 00:21:55,980 --> 00:22:02,200 Jon Hirschtick: It has features in pro that you won't find in the free plan, particularly our company level, PDM features, things like that. 190 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:08,540 Jon Hirschtick: And then we even have an enterprise plan for our larger customers. We have customers that have a thousand active users a month. 191 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:17,040 Jon Hirschtick: And they're using our enterprise plan, probably not for the startups out there. But our pro plan is where it's at, free trial Onshape.com. One more important 192 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:23,160 Jon Hirschtick: thing, we have a startup program for startups now. We just started. It gives you a ton of benefits. 193 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:33,020 Jon Hirschtick: If you're a qualified startup, you can go and apply onshap.com. Look for the startup program, okay? Or you could probably just Google OnShap startup program and you'll find it. 194 00:22:33,260 --> 00:22:34,500 Jon Hirschtick: It's a really great program. 195 00:22:34,820 --> 00:22:41,380 Kevin Mako: Again, you have to apply to it. And if you're accepted, you get a lot of benefits. Just Google search Onshape startup program. 196 00:22:41,700 --> 00:22:48,460 Kevin Mako: John, I always really appreciate when the big companies are really helping and promoting startups. So thanks so much for you guys. 197 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:53,620 Kevin Mako: Not only creating great software, that's extremely helpful for all steps, all the way from concept through to manufacturing, 198 00:22:54,200 --> 00:23:00,580 Kevin Mako: but also having programs in place really to help and accelerate the startup world because reality is, and you and I talked about it before the show, 199 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:08,960 Kevin Mako: startups every year are becoming more and more powerful in terms of how products are developed. We talked about it on this show about how big corporates trying to be like startups. 200 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:14,940 Kevin Mako: Big corporate is acquiring startups as well. So big corporate is spending less money on developing their own products, 201 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:21,780 Kevin Mako: more money on acquiring the next hot product that you, the inventors, the innovators that are listening here are bringing forward to, 202 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:26,080 Kevin Mako: the market. So big picture startup is incredibly important and it's 203 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:34,320 Jon Hirschtick: amazing to see such help and collaboration from PTC and OnShap and growing the startup community around the hardware space. Well, thank you so much, Kevin. 204 00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:43,120 Jon Hirschtick: And right back at you, thank you for what you're doing with your podcast because I think it's a fantastic set of content for hardware startups. And as you say, 205 00:23:43,300 --> 00:23:44,220 Jon Hirschtick: you're the leader in it. 206 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:50,860 Kevin Mako: It's really a great resource and I really appreciate you doing it on behalf of the hardware startup community of the world. 207 00:23:50,860 --> 00:23:58,300 Narrator: Well, thanks, John. And we hope to have you back on the show again sooner than later. And of course, for anyone, I'll put all the links below. Check out LiveWorks. 208 00:23:58,380 --> 00:24:04,460 Narrator: Of course, it's an amazing conference that you guys are putting on. The Startup Program, free trial of Anche Pro, all these sorts of things. 209 00:24:04,580 --> 00:24:10,700 Narrator: I'll put the links below for anyone to check out. And John, thanks again for all your words of wisdom today. Thank you, Kevin. Thanks and take care. 210 00:24:11,420 --> 00:24:18,620 Narrator: Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the product startup podcast. If you found some value in the show, please do us a huge favor and leave us a quick five-star review. 211 00:24:18,620 --> 00:24:28,280 Narrator: If you have any questions, guest suggestions, or any of you. else feel free to reach out to us anytime at our email podcast at MakoDesign.com. That's podcast at MakoDesign.com. 212 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:36,520 Narrator: This show is hosted by Kevin Mako. North America's leading expert on product development for physical product startups. Huge thanks to our sponsors, PTC, and their two 213 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:41,860 Narrator: best-in-class 3D CAD product development software solutions Onshape and Creo. Mako Design and 214 00:24:41,860 --> 00:24:49,220 Narrator: invent. The original firm providing world-class consumer product development services tailored specifically to startups, small manufacturers, and inventors. 215 00:24:49,460 --> 00:24:51,200 Narrator: Thanks for joining and see you next. time.