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Hey, I'm Justin Sunseri.

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I'm a therapist, a coach, and the creator
of the Polyvagal Trauma Relief System.

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I've been doing this series on the
shutdown experiences survey results.

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The past two episodes dealt with that.

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I'm going to take a quick break from that
because I'm basically just overloaded

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with stuff I got to take care of.

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I'm doing coaching and therapy more
than ever, wrapping up my first book.

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Next two are done and
almost ready to go as well.

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Uh, plus being a dad and
well, just life, you know?

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So I'll take a quick break from
the shutdown experiences survey.

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Get back to it, hopefully next episode.

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In this one, I'm going to
address a question from within my

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stuck, not collective community.

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We meet up twice a month for Q&A and
this was a question that someone asked.

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It's about neuro, neurodivergence
and finding safety and connection

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and how realistic is that
and how else could this look.

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So this is a clip of my
response to that person.

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If you would like to join me and the
rest of my Stucknaut Collective private

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community, you can sign up for the Stuck
Not Broken Total Access Membership,

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where you get access to the private
community and my trauma recovery courses.

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I'll have more information
for you in the description.

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Enjoy this episode.

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We have another question,
which is a big one.

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"Ventral vagal is considered pro social."

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Yeah, it kind of is.

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Uh, "for some people, the
ventral vagal state is not

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coupled with social motivation."

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So what, the way I'm reading this
is that for some people being in

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safety does not necessarily equate to
the impulse to connect with others.

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"I need to uncouple the word safe
and social in order to realize

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I'm in my ventral vagal state,"
like a top down reframing.

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"I'm exploring my neurodivergence.

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Those on the autism spectrum occupy
the ventral vagal state differently.

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What would you cultivate in
neurodiverse people to help them climb

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the polyvagal ladder and flourish?"

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Alright, part of this is What does
safety feel like for an individual,

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whether they are neurodiverse or not?

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What does safety feel like?

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And then the next part, I guess,
is what do you want to do?

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What does the body want to do with it?

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So safe and social.

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Yeah, that's, I used to
use that phrase a lot.

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I've stopped using that and not
necessarily not intentionally, but

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I've noticed that I'm not really
using that as much anymore, if at all.

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And I've started using "connection"
more because safety is about connection.

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Connection with.

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Self, environment, or others.

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And I guess you could
say spiritually as well.

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So, we could put that there
as well, but it's connection.

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When do you feel connected?

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And to what?

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That may not be another human being.

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It could be a pet.

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That's definitely safety.

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It could be to the environment.

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It could be through your
senses to the environment.

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It could be to yourself, maybe
on, on a more emotional level.

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I, the, the struggle I have here is
when we classify groups of people.

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When we say "neurodivergent" at this
point, I honestly don't know what that

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means anymore because it's so widely used.

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I've seen this used when, when
in trauma, in ADHD, with autism.

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And at some point it's like, well, what do
we not mean when we say "neurodivergent."

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So it's, I struggle with that.

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What does that mean on a larger level?

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If someone comes to me as an individual
and says, "Hey, I'm neurodivergent."

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I would ask them, what do you mean
by that in relation to yourself?

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How does that, how do you know what, what,
what experiences do you have that are

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telling you that you're neurodivergent?

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And then, okay.

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So they bought into
Polyvagal theory, maybe.

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What does safety feel like for you?

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What does connection look like?

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What does that feel like for you?

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So I, I look at this more on an individual
level, which is let's not limit ourselves.

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Well, if you know your limits, okay, fine.

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But if you know, I can't connect
with people, that's too much.

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Okay.

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That's fine.

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What does connection feel like to you
when you do have an impulse to connect?

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Where does that go to?

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What is it with a cat?

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Lovely.

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Dog?

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Fine.

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Is it, uh, Going outside
and looking at trees?

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Beautiful, but it's still connection.

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So rather than limiting ourselves
by saying we must connect with

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another person Yeah, it might
not be the way to go, right?

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But if we expand it and say I have
some capacity to feel connection.

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I know I can I know it's there
I know I can develop it and then

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hopefully just be curious about
well, what does that look like?

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What does that feel like?

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What does that take you to and
just be open to what that could be

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and maybe it is a specific person
that someone might feel safe with.

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Maybe it's not, maybe it's not
everyone, maybe it's not a few people,

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maybe it's just one person and it's
time to reconnect with that person.

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I don't know, you know, so I would
reframe it as, uh, safety is the ventral

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vagal pathways lead to connection,
not necessarily safe and social, but

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maybe it's safety and connection.

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I would invite each of us to,
instead of limiting ourselves or

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accepting the limitations of others.

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Let's just be curious about where
we're at today and what that brings.

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That's it.

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Just today.

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Maybe, maybe not even
today, just this moment.

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And so in this moment, I have the
capacity to, to do this with you.

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Uh, for you, this moment, you
might have the capacity or after

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we're done here to go garden.

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And that's what safety
feels or to paint a picture.

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And that's beautiful.

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That's wonderful.

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Let's just stick with that instead
of, well, I'm not, I'm not doing

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the, I'm not socializing with people.

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Therefore I can't do
this and I can't do that.

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And it's just, just right now, just
this moment, just right now, you

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know, all my coursework stuff is
all about the present moment, right?

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It's not about what you should.

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I don't think it's about, I hope
it's not about what I expect you

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should and should not be doing
how that looks on the outside.

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It's, it's in this moment.

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Uh, be curious about what safety
feels like, try out things that

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help you feel safe and rule out
things that don't, at least for now.

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And then when it comes to the UDS
stuff, it's what do you feel now?

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What can you allow yourself
to feel from safety?

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Not exploring the past in detail.

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It's, it's all about the present moment.

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So in the present moment,
what's your capacity for

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safety and can you follow that?

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And where does it take you if you
go and paint a picture, or if you

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go garden, like, okay, well, now
what's the experience of that?

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And if you can deep, deepen that anchoring
into safety, now what feels good.

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And just kind of keep following that.

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Eventually, one might get to
the point where they're ready

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to reconnect with someone.

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A lot of times that's kind of how
it happens, is as I have more safety

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in my system, I feel this impulse
to have a connection with a, person

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or a pet and so we follow that.

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And a lot of times when it comes to
connection with people, I keep saying

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"reconnect" because it's like there
might already be people in my life

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that I have some level of connection
to and now it's time to reconnect with

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them in a way that just is deeper and
more challenging, but maybe it's like,

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"hey, I just want to let you know I
really appreciate you for X, Y, and Z.

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Thank you."

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So that.

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Person's already there and maybe that's
a way to connect with another person,

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but in a deeper way But that might not be
in the table either and that's fine and

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you stick with Gardening or painting a
picture for for this moment and see what

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opens up in the next that's that's it.

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I hope you enjoyed that episode.

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Let me know what you think put your
comments in the Comment section on YouTube

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if that's where you're watching and
listening But I'd love to know what you

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think when you hear "neurodivergence,"
what does that mean to you at this point?

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Isn't it pretty much in everyone's bio?

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I just, it's everywhere.

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And at some point don't words
just sort of lose their meaning?

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And again, if you'd like to meet up
with me in the future for these Q and

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A's, do so by signing up for the Stuck
Not Broken total access membership.

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You get access to my private community
and my three trauma recovery courses,

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Polyvagal 101, Building Safety Anchors
and Unstucking Defensive States.

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They help you to learn Polyvagal
theory, build the strength of your

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safety state, and then finally, get
unstuck from your stuck defensive state.

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There is a link in the
description to learn more.

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Really hope you enjoyed this.

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Bye.

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This podcast is not therapy,
not intended to be therapy or

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be a replacement for therapy.

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Nothing in this creates or indicates
a therapeutic relationship.

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Please consult with your therapist or
seek for one in your area if you are

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experiencing mental health symptoms.

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Nothing in this podcast should be
construed to be specific life advice.

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It is for educational and
entertainment purposes only.

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More resources are available in
the description of this episode and

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in the footer of justinlmft.com.