Hey, I'm Justin Sunseri.

I'm a therapist, a coach, and the creator of the Polyvagal Trauma Relief System.

I've been doing this series on the shutdown experiences survey results.

The past two episodes dealt with that.

I'm going to take a quick break from that because I'm basically just overloaded

with stuff I got to take care of.

I'm doing coaching and therapy more than ever, wrapping up my first book.

Next two are done and almost ready to go as well.

Uh, plus being a dad and well, just life, you know?

So I'll take a quick break from the shutdown experiences survey.

Get back to it, hopefully next episode.

In this one, I'm going to address a question from within my

stuck, not collective community.

We meet up twice a month for Q&A and this was a question that someone asked.

It's about neuro, neurodivergence and finding safety and connection

and how realistic is that and how else could this look.

So this is a clip of my response to that person.

If you would like to join me and the rest of my Stucknaut Collective private

community, you can sign up for the Stuck Not Broken Total Access Membership,

where you get access to the private community and my trauma recovery courses.

I'll have more information for you in the description.

Enjoy this episode.

We have another question, which is a big one.

"Ventral vagal is considered pro social."

Yeah, it kind of is.

Uh, "for some people, the ventral vagal state is not

coupled with social motivation."

So what, the way I'm reading this is that for some people being in

safety does not necessarily equate to the impulse to connect with others.

"I need to uncouple the word safe and social in order to realize

I'm in my ventral vagal state," like a top down reframing.

"I'm exploring my neurodivergence.

Those on the autism spectrum occupy the ventral vagal state differently.

What would you cultivate in neurodiverse people to help them climb

the polyvagal ladder and flourish?"

Alright, part of this is What does safety feel like for an individual,

whether they are neurodiverse or not?

What does safety feel like?

And then the next part, I guess, is what do you want to do?

What does the body want to do with it?

So safe and social.

Yeah, that's, I used to use that phrase a lot.

I've stopped using that and not necessarily not intentionally, but

I've noticed that I'm not really using that as much anymore, if at all.

And I've started using "connection" more because safety is about connection.

Connection with.

Self, environment, or others.

And I guess you could say spiritually as well.

So, we could put that there as well, but it's connection.

When do you feel connected?

And to what?

That may not be another human being.

It could be a pet.

That's definitely safety.

It could be to the environment.

It could be through your senses to the environment.

It could be to yourself, maybe on, on a more emotional level.

I, the, the struggle I have here is when we classify groups of people.

When we say "neurodivergent" at this point, I honestly don't know what that

means anymore because it's so widely used.

I've seen this used when, when in trauma, in ADHD, with autism.

And at some point it's like, well, what do we not mean when we say "neurodivergent."

So it's, I struggle with that.

What does that mean on a larger level?

If someone comes to me as an individual and says, "Hey, I'm neurodivergent."

I would ask them, what do you mean by that in relation to yourself?

How does that, how do you know what, what, what experiences do you have that are

telling you that you're neurodivergent?

And then, okay.

So they bought into Polyvagal theory, maybe.

What does safety feel like for you?

What does connection look like?

What does that feel like for you?

So I, I look at this more on an individual level, which is let's not limit ourselves.

Well, if you know your limits, okay, fine.

But if you know, I can't connect with people, that's too much.

Okay.

That's fine.

What does connection feel like to you when you do have an impulse to connect?

Where does that go to?

What is it with a cat?

Lovely.

Dog?

Fine.

Is it, uh, Going outside and looking at trees?

Beautiful, but it's still connection.

So rather than limiting ourselves by saying we must connect with

another person Yeah, it might not be the way to go, right?

But if we expand it and say I have some capacity to feel connection.

I know I can I know it's there I know I can develop it and then

hopefully just be curious about well, what does that look like?

What does that feel like?

What does that take you to and just be open to what that could be

and maybe it is a specific person that someone might feel safe with.

Maybe it's not, maybe it's not everyone, maybe it's not a few people,

maybe it's just one person and it's time to reconnect with that person.

I don't know, you know, so I would reframe it as, uh, safety is the ventral

vagal pathways lead to connection, not necessarily safe and social, but

maybe it's safety and connection.

I would invite each of us to, instead of limiting ourselves or

accepting the limitations of others.

Let's just be curious about where we're at today and what that brings.

That's it.

Just today.

Maybe, maybe not even today, just this moment.

And so in this moment, I have the capacity to, to do this with you.

Uh, for you, this moment, you might have the capacity or after

we're done here to go garden.

And that's what safety feels or to paint a picture.

And that's beautiful.

That's wonderful.

Let's just stick with that instead of, well, I'm not, I'm not doing

the, I'm not socializing with people.

Therefore I can't do this and I can't do that.

And it's just, just right now, just this moment, just right now, you

know, all my coursework stuff is all about the present moment, right?

It's not about what you should.

I don't think it's about, I hope it's not about what I expect you

should and should not be doing how that looks on the outside.

It's, it's in this moment.

Uh, be curious about what safety feels like, try out things that

help you feel safe and rule out things that don't, at least for now.

And then when it comes to the UDS stuff, it's what do you feel now?

What can you allow yourself to feel from safety?

Not exploring the past in detail.

It's, it's all about the present moment.

So in the present moment, what's your capacity for

safety and can you follow that?

And where does it take you if you go and paint a picture, or if you

go garden, like, okay, well, now what's the experience of that?

And if you can deep, deepen that anchoring into safety, now what feels good.

And just kind of keep following that.

Eventually, one might get to the point where they're ready

to reconnect with someone.

A lot of times that's kind of how it happens, is as I have more safety

in my system, I feel this impulse to have a connection with a, person

or a pet and so we follow that.

And a lot of times when it comes to connection with people, I keep saying

"reconnect" because it's like there might already be people in my life

that I have some level of connection to and now it's time to reconnect with

them in a way that just is deeper and more challenging, but maybe it's like,

"hey, I just want to let you know I really appreciate you for X, Y, and Z.

Thank you."

So that.

Person's already there and maybe that's a way to connect with another person,

but in a deeper way But that might not be in the table either and that's fine and

you stick with Gardening or painting a picture for for this moment and see what

opens up in the next that's that's it.

I hope you enjoyed that episode.

Let me know what you think put your comments in the Comment section on YouTube

if that's where you're watching and listening But I'd love to know what you

think when you hear "neurodivergence," what does that mean to you at this point?

Isn't it pretty much in everyone's bio?

I just, it's everywhere.

And at some point don't words just sort of lose their meaning?

And again, if you'd like to meet up with me in the future for these Q and

A's, do so by signing up for the Stuck Not Broken total access membership.

You get access to my private community and my three trauma recovery courses,

Polyvagal 101, Building Safety Anchors and Unstucking Defensive States.

They help you to learn Polyvagal theory, build the strength of your

safety state, and then finally, get unstuck from your stuck defensive state.

There is a link in the description to learn more.

Really hope you enjoyed this.

Bye.

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Please consult with your therapist or seek for one in your area if you are

experiencing mental health symptoms.

Nothing in this podcast should be construed to be specific life advice.

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