Erica Boland 00:00:00 There's so much in pregnancy and in life that we can't control and that we have to surrender. It's so much more even than just the pregnancy itself. It's like you so very quickly start to plan and dream for this little spirit and how the spirit will come into your family. And I think that that for me was the part that took the longest healing. And sometimes it still hits me, even it will have been 13 years ago, and still sometimes it will just come up so strong.

Erica Boland 00:00:59 Hey, loves, I'm Erica.

Brittany Estrada 00:01:01 And I'm Britt. She's a chiropractor and midwife.

Erica Boland 00:01:04 And she's a nurse practitioner and womb healer. Together, we are bridging the sacred and the scientific. To help you step into deeper alignment with the incredible wisdom of your body.

Brittany Estrada 00:01:15 We are mothers, soul sisters, and women who are deeply devoted to serving the feminine collective.

Brittany Estrada 00:01:20 There is no topic we aren't open to exploring, and we are so looking forward to navigating this journey with you and our amazing guests.

Erica Boland 00:01:28 So settle in, preferably with a great cup of coffee. Put one hand on your heart and breathe as we dive in.

Brittany Estrada 00:01:35 Welcome to our community. Hello everybody. Welcome to this week's episode of the Womb Women podcast. We are so honored that you are taking your precious time to be here with us. So we're gonna start off like we always do and just really drop into our bodies. And, you know, this has really been present for me over the last couple of weeks as I've kind of been working with women to resettle their nervous systems after the holidays. So by the time you all are listening to this episode will be a few weeks removed from the holidays, but still in January, which is like always the longest month of the year. And so I think recalibrating and coming into our bodies is so important. So if you're able close your eyes or soften your gaze, and what I mean by that is just try to let the muscles of your eyes just relax, not trying to focus on anything.

Brittany Estrada 00:02:36 Just can you let your vision go a little blurry and be soft, and then do the same thing with the back of your throat, noticing any tension in your jaw, your neck and shoulders, and maybe even allow your shoulders to rotate back and fall away from your ears. And then just take a big inhale and let it all go. Let yourself just fully land right here in this moment. And just do a quick check in with where your mind is right now. Are you thinking about all of your to do's? Are you feeling extra financial pressure? Are you feeling worried about the state of the world? No judgment. Just notice. And then just do a quick check in with any sensations that are present in your body right now, and really not labeling anything as good or bad, just taking in as information. Do you notice tension in your low back? Maybe some aching in your knees? What is your body trying to communicate to you right now? And then bringing all of your awareness to your breath and just noticing where you feel the breath in your body most vividly.

Brittany Estrada 00:04:08 Is it at the tip of your nose? Down in your belly? And on this next inhalation. Imagine every single cell in your body is breathing in that life, giving oxygen as one. And then exhaling out anything that doesn't serve you. Releasing toxins, cellular waste, emotions, frustration, whatever it is, all your cells breathing in and then releasing out. And then just really allow yourself to continue to use your breath as your anchor for this moment. And this one. And when you're ready, you can gently flutter your eyes open, shift in your seat, and just come back to present so we can get into today's conversation. Erica and I have been wanting to do kind of like a how to series, so our last episode was really focused on how to not pee on yourself when you sneeze. So really talking through pelvic floor dysfunction and a lot of the misconceptions about how we should go about making change in the body and healing that and not normalizing peeing on yourself. And so today I thought we should talk about Miscarriage, because this seems to be something that's coming up a lot in my world right now, and it is one of the things that has been so influential on my practice, just because of my own personal experience with pregnancy loss and navigating my early motherhood journey.

Brittany Estrada 00:06:13 And so today, we're going to talk about ways to really support yourself or support women in your community in navigating and healing from a miscarriage. Yes.

Erica Boland 00:06:26 I think that even recognizing that it takes time for this healing and realizing that it is a postpartum period, because we definitely acknowledge postpartum when there's a baby in your arms and you're figuring out the ebbs and flows of motherhood, and when the baby is not in your arms, No matter when the miscarriage happened, your body is still healing from that pregnancy and then from that loss, and even more so with the emotional intensity. Of course, maybe if it was an early miscarriage, the physical symptoms might not be as long lasting. But we frequently on our podcast talk about, you know, the spiritual and emotional side of health that often gets overlooked. And I think that that is huge here as well. And then so individual from person to person and how they experience grief, which we have a whole episode on as well.

Brittany Estrada 00:07:35 Yeah. Erica, if you're comfortable with it, can you share a little bit about your experience of pregnancy loss and what you dealt with, both in the grief process, but also just the physical healing that needed to happen?

Erica Boland 00:07:52 Sure.

Erica Boland 00:07:53 So When we lost a baby. It was after our second son and relatively early on in pregnancy. And I do remember, I can remember vividly being and you know, where I was in our home at the time and thinking I had just talked to my mother in law and like, I don't even feel pregnant, really, I feel great. And then I had a little bit of spotting and went in, and the heaviness of finding out that the baby didn't have a heartbeat and that we had miscarried. When in retrospect, I think subconsciously I felt invincible to it. Not oh, this would never happen to me type of thing, but I realistically just wasn't thinking of it. And it wasn't that I was unfamiliar with it. I had a really close friend that had several losses at that time. And, you know, it's like you understand it differently when you go through it, but it's not something that you wish upon anyone. And I just really went within. I didn't really want to talk to many people.

Erica Boland 00:09:05 Kyle was my support during that. And we had already told people that we were pregnant, which I wouldn't change that because I think that for us then to have people's prayers and support was really meaningful, and to really understand that we needed a little bit of space. But also some people said a lot of really crazy things to try to comfort from a place of good intention and love. But sometimes just stillness and quiet is really all that someone needs when they're going through a loss or grief. And so some of the words like, oh, well, it's not surprising you're so stressed and doing so much or oh, so simple, fix your progesterone levels are just too low or, well, it's probably better off. What if something was wrong with it? Or maybe it was a girl and you just can't carry girls?

Brittany Estrada 00:10:00 Oh my gosh.

Erica Boland 00:10:01 Are some of those comments that at the time were like a knife in an open wound. And now that I have done more healing myself and learned more about how to support people, a lot of people really just don't know how to be in an uncomfortable situation.

Erica Boland 00:10:17 So they say things, whatever comes to their mind comes out their mouth to try to help. And I passed the baby in the toilet and I, I guess, got the baby out of the toilet. And we buried the baby in the backyard of our home in Davenport. And, I mean, I think that there was just I could not flush that. It just wasn't. I'm finding it weird to even talk about now, but for me, that was the most peaceful thing to do to honor this tiny little spirit. And then it was really a lot like a heavy period for a while. And then I eventually, you know, bleeding subsided. And from there I was afraid to be pregnant again. And I really didn't want to. And my husband was like, well, maybe we can just try timing wise with our chiropractic school. He was like, maybe we can just try again. And this was like a month or two later and I found out quickly that I was pregnant again. And a lot of fear came with that pregnancy, because I wanted to know that everything was safe and that the baby was okay.

Erica Boland 00:11:26 And I hadn't really been in that place before with pregnancy where, like I said, kind of that subconscious invincibility to it, that desire for control and like, just give me something that will tell me that everything is going to be okay. And now, in birth work, I know that there's so much in pregnancy and in life that we can't control and that we have to surrender. But it's really hard when we're. It's so much more even than just the pregnancy itself. It's like you so very quickly start to plan and dream for this little spirit and how the spirit will come into your family. And I think that that for me, was the part that took the longest healing. And sometimes it still hits me even, gosh, it's been March 31st was my due date and so it will have been 13 years ago. And still sometimes it will just come up so strong.

Brittany Estrada 00:12:23 Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. After the experience of the loss, how did you feel physically? Did you feel pretty good? Like similar to how you would have felt like coming out of your regular period? Or did it take more time to feel like physically up to getting pregnant again?

Erica Boland 00:12:41 I would say that it took more time, but maybe like another week or so because I had really intense cramping and So I stayed home for longer than I would have thought, I guess, or didn't even think of because of the intensity of the cramping.

Erica Boland 00:13:00 And then the bleeding would come and go a little bit, just like it does after any pregnancy. But I would say as far as like after a normal period wise, maybe like an extra week of physical symptoms. And I'm trying to remember if it was like 8 or 10 weeks along when I lost the baby. So not out of the first trimester yet. And I know that that can be more intense the longer that obviously the longer that pregnancy progresses.

Brittany Estrada 00:13:26 Yeah. So in my experience, we got pregnant very quickly. We got pregnant the first time we ever tried. And because I was working in a midwifery practice, I scheduled myself an ultrasound very early on. But when we went in for what I should have been about six weeks along, when we went in for that initial ultrasound, the baby had a heartbeat, but it was very low. It was like in the 80s. And so one of the most excruciating things for me is I'm laying on the table having this ultrasound done, watching my husband's reaction, seeing how excited he is to see this heartbeat.

Brittany Estrada 00:14:01 And I know that it's not good news because the heartbeat is so low. And so after we walked out of the appointment, like I have to explain to him like, hey, like this doesn't look good. And so then because it's so early at that point, there's not really anything you can do. You kind of just have to wait and watch, right? And so we went back a week later and the baby still had a heartbeat. But this time it would like start and stop. And so, you know, by that point it was down in like the 60s I think. But it was still beating. And so that experience really just stands out to me because it was like having to watch the progression of life. Leaving this little body was really, really tough. And then, you know, I had had a few months prior to that, I had had to have a surgical procedure to remove an embedded IUD. So like the last thing that I wanted was more intervention. I didn't want to have to have a DNC.

Brittany Estrada 00:14:58 I just really wanted my body to pass the baby on its own, and at the same time, like, I didn't want to do anything to necessarily her the process along because I had seen the heartbeat. Right. So part of me is thinking, well, maybe, maybe this baby is actually going to survive, you know, all the things. So by the time I actually miscarried, I was about 11 weeks along and I did go ahead. I had a friend who I had worked with previously who was a sonographer. I was like, can you please just put an ultrasound on me? Just make sure there's no heartbeat before I do anything to kind of support this process. And so she did. There was no heartbeat. It kind of had it already looked like things were starting to move, like some of the maybe uterine lining was starting to shed, but I hadn't started bleeding yet. So at that point I was able to kind of ready myself emotionally. I use some herbs, I use some essential oils and started bleeding a couple days after that.

Brittany Estrada 00:15:53 But I think for me, what was the hardest and most heartbreaking thing on so many levels was I had no idea the level of pain I was going to experience, and I had been a doula for several years at that point, and what I was experiencing was true labor. Like it started very slow, like early labor. By that evening, I mean, I was having to like, move through full blown contractions. And I remember at one point and I was having a lot of bleeding, and I remember at one point thinking like, what would I tell a client who is in active labor like this? Is that intense? Like intense to the point where I think I'm going to have to go to the hospital if this doesn't let up soon. And I mean, I went through that for hours. And then finally, I think it was like midnight. It finally stopped. But after that experience, I felt this deep sense of shame and guilt about how I, as a provider, had counseled other women on what this experience could be because I had never explained to a woman that it could be that intense and not even just physically intense, but the amount of grief that I felt moving through my body through that process, and because I knew I was pregnant so early on.

Brittany Estrada 00:17:07 So this was like months of going through this, like, grief process, knowing that this baby probably wasn't going to survive. So when I came out of that, I kind of just buried myself in my work. I went back to my normal routine. I kind of just wanted to put it behind me and didn't want to think about it. And my body fully rebelled. I had a complete autoimmune reaction. My face swelled up. I had this like horrible orbital rash. It was mostly around my eyes, but it was kind of spread down to my cheeks that was itchy and red. And I mean, it looked like seriously bad. And I would have to take steroids in order to get it under control. I ended up developing weird digestive stuff and some thyroid stuff, and this was really my body's way of saying, hey, if you're not going to actually sit here and process this grief, I'm gonna force you to do it. And again, this is not something that I had ever even heard about, you know, as a nursing student.

Brittany Estrada 00:18:08 And it certainly wasn't something that I ever counseled women about. And I'm not saying that every woman needs to prepare herself for an autoimmune reaction postpartum, but I think it's so important for us to emphasize the need for healing, to your point, and that this is truly a postpartum period. And I don't know if this is what you typically hear, but in clinical practice, what I would so often hear is like, oh, women can start trying to get pregnant in the next cycle or immediately. And even from a physical perspective, I don't necessarily feel that. That's right. I personally try to encourage women to wait one full menstrual cycle and like, let them have a good normal motorcycle. And then if they feel ready, go ahead and try. But I also think that they need to have some kind of a ritual or something that allows them some closure. And I love what you shared about burying the baby, but something that helps bring recognition to the life that was and helped provide that emotional closure.

Brittany Estrada 00:19:08 So then you can kind of step forward and move into the next pregnancy.

Erica Boland 00:19:15 Yeah I agree. And it is so individual. So when I get this question now as a provider, both chiropractor and midwife, I have those conversations on, you know, letting your body heal from a postpartum period. And ultimately it is your choice on how you want to move forward. And you probably see this with fertility clients, too. Looking back, you know, part of the comment that I got about while you're so busy and you're so stressed. And do I think that that caused a miscarriage? No. But was it true? Yes, it was true. And I was doing so many things and just running myself into the ground and like, how would my body healthily carry a pregnancy? I'm not sure. But starting to have some of those conversations, not in the sense of like you're doing too much or you need to slow down or you need to, but how can you create space in your life for the next spirit or being that chooses to show up and allow yourself to heal first? So how can you step into a ritual that allows you to heal on a cellular level in order to prepare your mind and body for this next pregnancy? That's huge and I love that you opened up with that.

Erica Boland 00:20:37 I actually wrote that down. You know what? If we were calmed at the cellular level the same way that we tell our patients to hydrate at the cellular level or get their micronutrients. And again, going back to that, your cycle gives you so much information. So let's listen to it and and see what happens in this next cycle. But don't overlook the spiritual emotional aspect and giving yourself time and space to grieve how you need to in that way too.

Brittany Estrada 00:21:07 Yeah. So when I work with women through healing from a miscarriage, like some of the physical things that I like to address are, of course like making sure this is a time of nourishment, so similar to how we would want to nurture ourselves during our period, like warming foods, broths and teas and things that are going to help really stimulate blood flow to all the internal organs. Like now's not the time necessarily for like smoothies or, you know, cold foods. Like, I love those warming and nourishing things. And then I love to recommend Yoni steaming after a miscarriage.

Brittany Estrada 00:21:47 Now, when you are having a lot of heavy, active bleeding, that's not an ideal time for a steam because it is going to encourage blood flow. Now, if you're having kind of this like scant blood flow that never seems to want to stop doing a steam could be helpful because it could kind of get that last little bit cleaned from your uterus. But again, bringing warmth and heat into the pelvic bowl is it feels really good physically, but it's very nourishing. And it kind of gets that blood flow, that qi, that energy, which I think can be really helpful. And one of the things I love so much about steaming, we have a great episode with Kit, who is the founder of Katara, so we'll link that for you guys because she's so wise. But one of the cool things about Yoni Steaming is it's so accessible, like you need herbs and you need hot water. You actually don't need a fancy setup. You can use any bowl from your kitchen, you know, nontoxic.

Brittany Estrada 00:22:39 Of course, you need some clean water and some good herbs, but you can just, like, sit over the bowl. You don't have to have a fancy steam, you know, stool or anything like that. So I love how accessible it is. So that's something anybody can do. And you know, again, really focusing on nourishment. So like are you actually taking like a good quality prenatal vitamin, which I'll be on my soapbox and say, I think that every woman of childbearing age should be on a good quality prenatal because half of pregnancies are unplanned. So if that's not something you were on prior to your miscarriage, it would be wise to maybe go ahead and get something like that started so that we are at least getting those baseline nutrients covered. But of course we always need to focus on food first. That's really just our insurance policy that we have with the vitamins. And then. What would you say to Erica like on a physical level for healing that you would recommend?

Erica Boland 00:23:31 I was going to ask you because even looking back at my experience, you know, if I had known you then or someone, then I would have traveled to have a womb healing session.

Erica Boland 00:23:42 I definitely would have done that because getting just space, like I said, I just needed space and some time for myself. And this like learning to trust my body again. Really. And so for you, Brit, I know patients come from all over to see you. And so for those local or far away, when is the soonest that you recommend that they could have a session with you after a miscarriage?

Brittany Estrada 00:24:08 Honestly, what's really beautiful about the visceral work is that you can have it to help encourage a miscarriage. So if you are, you've had a missed, you know, miscarriage and you are really not wanting to utilize the medication or have a DNC, you can actually use the abdominal work specifically for that purpose. The only time I would hesitate is if someone was having extremely heavy bleeding because again, that's going to stimulate the blood flow. So we don't necessarily want to do that, but there's really not a time other than that where I would not encourage someone to do that and any type of abdominal work is going to be helpful.

Brittany Estrada 00:24:47 You know, I personally had my abdominal massage, which is a little more superficial than the work that I do, but still bringing energy into the pelvic bowl. You could also work with someone who even just does energetic work on the pelvic bowl. Really just helping to call your own awareness to that space, and then you even can simply put your hands on your belly and do some massage and really just tune in to what your body is needing. Do you feel tension in a certain spot? Can you place your hands there and just breathe? Like, we don't put our hands on our own body, which we've talked about a lot. There's something so healing about just bringing energy into that space. And using physical touch is just, is really, really powerful and such an important way to nurture ourselves. And we can do that for ourselves. We don't need a practitioner to do that, but it is always. It is always in my joy to support women who are specifically going through loss, because I have such deep empathy for what they are experiencing because I experienced it too.

Erica Boland 00:25:53 Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I know in the DNS Perinatal Summit that was here in the fall, we did visceral work, and I was really excited because I had not done a visceral, DNS specific, visceral course yet. And it was really powerful to see truly that deep, visceral work because. So for those of you that aren't aware, when there is that level of inflammation within the abdomen or the pelvis, you know, uterus, then scar tissue and adhesions can start even without a surgery. And so I think that it is becoming more commonly known that you will have scar tissue and adhesions with surgery, but that happens even just with inflammation. So getting some of that physical and energetic healing, moving through there and just increasing the blood flow and oxygenation. And yeah, I think that that is powerful and I'm thankful to know that you utilize it even like during actively during a miscarriage. And it makes sense with the heavy bleeding. And interesting too because in a full term postpartum with the massage, we're learning more now about, you know, when there's active heavy bleeding, we don't actually need to massage, if you will, the uterus so firmly.

Erica Boland 00:27:12 So that tracks again with it being very similar to any other postpartum time. Well, I'm.

Brittany Estrada 00:27:18 Sure any woman who's experienced that is like, oh thank God, don't do that anymore. Because bundle massage after you have just birthed a baby is truly torture.

Erica Boland 00:27:27 Right. And then to couple that with loss on top of that it's traumatic. It's traumatic. And it's a question as a midwife that I often get, do you do that thing where if they've had a hospital birth before. So traumatic without a loss and then to put that grief on top of it. So how can our listeners learn more about what you do for wound healing in those sessions? Is your website best for that or.

Brittany Estrada 00:27:54 Yeah, I have people schedule just a connection call with me. It's just a 20 minute call where they can ask any questions. And, you know, I have a lot of free resources because like I said, it's really powerful to have another woman put their hands on your body and just hold you in that level of support.

Brittany Estrada 00:28:10 And also, it's really powerful for you to start to cultivate some of these practices for yourself, which we've talked about too, specifically in regard to the pelvic floor. Like, we really have the power to bring so much healing to our own body. But I do think that in particular, when we've had a pregnancy loss or we even when we're just postpartum, like we need to be held, and so having another woman there to do that for us, I think is really important.

Erica Boland 00:28:37 Good. Yeah, because I imagine if it isn't possible for you to get to Brit, you know, you can find someone here. I do visceral work, for sure, but I'm definitely not trained to the level that Britt is in womb healing. And so I'm sure that you can find someone in at least a general vicinity of you that might have that same sort of ritual to it, because I think what you do is so powerful and so much more than just that physical piece. And then I guess, in closing, to just emphasize that you aren't alone in this with loss.

Erica Boland 00:29:12 And we can certainly be a resource for you, and you will learn through this to who you can trust to share some of your most intimate experiences with. And that can hold space for your healing. And we certainly hope to do that for our clients and listeners.

Brittany Estrada 00:29:31 Yeah. Well, thank you all for tuning in. We look forward to any of your questions and comments, and we will see you in the next episode. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of the Womb Women podcast. We are thrilled you joined us today and hope you found the conversation as inspiring as we did to connect with us further. Follow me, Britt on Instagram @thebrittestrada and Erica @themovementmidwife. For more information on how to work with us, check out our websites linked in the show notes. We can't wait to have you join us for the next episode. But until then, we invite you to step into your power and embrace the wisdom of your body. Bye for now.

Brittany Estrada 00:30:25 Just as a reminder of the information shared here is for educational purposes only and not a substitute for professional medical advice. Always consult your health care provider for any medical questions or concerns.