1 00:00:07,309 --> 00:00:11,922 Welcome to Crowd Church. Great to have you with us here on this beautiful day 2 00:00:11,922 --> 00:00:16,535 all the way from the UK. My name is Matt Edmundson. If you've not been here before, 3 00:00:16,535 --> 00:00:21,147 very warm, warm welcome to you. We are broadcasting live from Liverpool, 4 00:00:21,147 --> 00:00:25,760 England. I don't— doesn't really make any difference where it's from, really, 5 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:30,373 does it? But that's where we are broadcasting live from. So Sure, it's great to 6 00:00:30,373 --> 00:00:34,985 have you. Where's that coming from? Oh, there we go. Once is enough, uh, to, for 7 00:00:34,985 --> 00:00:39,598 Matt's voice. Just trying to figure out where the, where the sound is coming 8 00:00:39,598 --> 00:00:44,211 from. Uh, but yeah, very warm welcome to you. Great to have you with us. Make 9 00:00:44,211 --> 00:00:48,823 sure you're in the comments. Say, how's it? Um, and if you would like, we now 10 00:00:48,823 --> 00:00:53,436 have this thing called Live Lounge. Uh, you can go to Live Lounge, the web URL 11 00:00:53,436 --> 00:00:58,048 I'll put in the comments actually. Um, go.crowd.church/livelounge. Uh, if you go 12 00:00:58,048 --> 00:01:02,661 there, um, you can watch the live stream in a Zoom room, uh, with some other 13 00:01:02,661 --> 00:01:07,274 folks. I can see Dan's in there. Hey, Dan. Uh, I can see Ros is in there, 14 00:01:07,274 --> 00:01:11,886 although I can't see Ros. I can just see Ros's picture. But anyway, you can go 15 00:01:11,886 --> 00:01:16,499 join people in the Zoom room. You'll see and hear the live stream, but you get 16 00:01:16,499 --> 00:01:21,112 to interact with all kinds of wonderful people. Uh, Alicia's in the YouTube 17 00:01:21,112 --> 00:01:25,724 comments. Hey, Alicia, how you doing? Um, let me, let me do this while I 18 00:01:25,724 --> 00:01:30,337 remember. In fact, while I say— well, I put the, the link for Live Lounge in 19 00:01:30,337 --> 00:01:34,950 there. Say hello to Sharon. Sharon, how you doing? 20 00:01:34,950 --> 00:01:38,765 Hi everybody, I am co-hosting with Matt tonight, and we've got the fabulous Mike 21 00:01:38,765 --> 00:01:42,579 who's going to be speaking to us. 22 00:01:42,579 --> 00:01:44,420 Uh, and here's Mike. 23 00:01:44,420 --> 00:01:49,767 Yeah, hi, good to be here. Yeah, I'm going to be talking today, I'm going to be 24 00:01:49,767 --> 00:01:55,115 talking about Insiders and outsiders, um, and what Jesus had to say, or more, 25 00:01:55,115 --> 00:02:00,462 more accurately, how he interacted with those insiders and outsiders. And so, 26 00:02:00,462 --> 00:02:05,810 yeah, looking forward to sharing that with you today. 27 00:02:05,810 --> 00:02:09,550 Fantastic. So insiders and outs. It's a little bit dark in the studio. I'm gonna 28 00:02:09,550 --> 00:02:13,289 go turn those lights up. That's what I'm gonna do in a minute. Uh, but yes, so 29 00:02:13,289 --> 00:02:17,030 we've got that going on. Um, Katharine's in the car. Hello, Katharine, how you 30 00:02:17,030 --> 00:02:20,770 doing? I've put the link to Live Lounge in the comments if you'd like to go and 31 00:02:20,770 --> 00:02:24,509 join in Live Lounge. You'd be very, very welcome. Um, but yeah, I think— have I 32 00:02:24,509 --> 00:02:28,250 missed anything in terms of the notices? 33 00:02:28,250 --> 00:02:33,775 Well, just one thing. So last week I spoke and I said that my talk was the first 34 00:02:33,775 --> 00:02:39,301 part of the more difficult teachings of Jesus, and that, that was true. But 35 00:02:39,301 --> 00:02:44,826 Mike's today is actually not part of that series because basically Come on, 36 00:02:44,826 --> 00:02:50,352 Sherry, go! We're doing really well with that. Really slick as usual. Um, yes, 37 00:02:50,352 --> 00:02:55,877 but I basically, I swapped the day I was talking, so it's slightly out of sync. 38 00:02:55,877 --> 00:03:01,403 So Mike's is not part of the more challenging teachings of Jesus, it's kind of 39 00:03:01,403 --> 00:03:06,928 backtracking a little bit, and then I think we're back to the more challenging, 40 00:03:06,928 --> 00:03:12,454 uh, parts of Jesus' teaching. Yeah. So, uh, hopefully Matt's finished fiddling 41 00:03:12,454 --> 00:03:17,979 with all the different lights and technical things now. 42 00:03:17,979 --> 00:03:22,064 Oh well, you know, I like to fiddle, that's the thing. There we go, it's a bit 43 00:03:22,064 --> 00:03:26,150 brighter here now. Sorry, I forgot I was going to block the camera. 44 00:03:26,150 --> 00:03:27,590 Lovely view of your back there. 45 00:03:27,590 --> 00:03:30,204 Yeah, I was like, I tell you what, I'll change the lights while you're talking 46 00:03:30,204 --> 00:03:32,819 and then no one noticed. 47 00:03:32,819 --> 00:03:36,379 No, no one noticed, you're fine. 48 00:03:38,500 --> 00:03:43,062 Oh well, very sorry, ladies and gentlemen, very sorry. Uh, Carter, hi, how you 49 00:03:43,062 --> 00:03:47,625 doing? It's in the comments. I just can't believe I did that. Anyway, um, this 50 00:03:47,625 --> 00:03:52,188 is what it's like when you try and do church online. There's always tech stuff 51 00:03:52,188 --> 00:03:56,750 going on when we're trying to do all these different things. So, uh, like I say, 52 00:03:56,750 --> 00:04:01,313 make sure you say hi in the YouTube comments if you're on YouTube. If you're in 53 00:04:01,313 --> 00:04:05,876 Live Lounge or want to go join Live Lounge I see Rach is in there now. You can 54 00:04:05,876 --> 00:04:10,439 do that, the link is in the YouTube comments, we've put that in there, 55 00:04:10,439 --> 00:04:15,001 go.crowd.church/livelounge. You'll need a Zoom thing to get in there because 56 00:04:15,001 --> 00:04:19,564 it's hosted on a Zoom room, but Dan's in there, go and say hello to Dan, 57 00:04:19,564 --> 00:04:24,127 otherwise it'll just be really lonely and we don't want that. So inside and 58 00:04:24,127 --> 00:04:28,689 outside, yeah, over to you, Mike. 59 00:04:28,689 --> 00:04:35,036 Over to me. Fantastic. Well, it is great to be here. And so, yeah, I am talking 60 00:04:35,036 --> 00:04:41,383 about insiders and outsiders today, and you can't have one without the other. 61 00:04:41,383 --> 00:04:47,729 And you can't have insiders unless there are people on the outside, and you 62 00:04:47,729 --> 00:04:54,076 can't have outsiders unless you've got people on the inside who believe they're 63 00:04:54,076 --> 00:05:00,423 on the inside. And so we're just going to look at that, and that's something 64 00:05:00,423 --> 00:05:06,769 that I want you to be thinking about. as I go through this. So what I'm going to 65 00:05:06,769 --> 00:05:13,116 do, I'm going to go through 3 stories from the Bible, 1 from the Old Testament, 66 00:05:13,116 --> 00:05:19,463 2 from the New, that look at how God interacts with insiders and outsiders. But 67 00:05:19,463 --> 00:05:25,809 before I start that, I just wanted to tell you a couple of situations where I 68 00:05:25,809 --> 00:05:32,156 have felt like an outsider. Now I understand that I'm talking to you, I am a 69 00:05:32,156 --> 00:05:38,503 middle-class white man, So most of the time I feel pretty privileged and as 70 00:05:38,503 --> 00:05:44,849 though I am on the inside. But there were some occasions where I have felt like 71 00:05:44,849 --> 00:05:51,196 I just don't quite fit in. So one of those times was I went along to a Jehovah's 72 00:05:51,196 --> 00:05:57,543 Witness church and I got invited along and I went along there and I turned up. 73 00:05:57,543 --> 00:06:03,889 And what I noticed straight away was that I was dressed very differently. to all 74 00:06:03,889 --> 00:06:10,236 the rest of the people. So all the rest of the men were all in suits and I 75 00:06:10,236 --> 00:06:16,582 wasn't. I was, I was dressed a little bit like this. And so straight away, I'm, 76 00:06:16,582 --> 00:06:22,929 I'm— for most of the time, although people were very friendly, I felt like an 77 00:06:22,929 --> 00:06:29,276 outsider. I felt like I just did not quite fit in, um, and it didn't feel nice. 78 00:06:29,276 --> 00:06:35,622 Um, another time where I felt like a bit— where I definitely didn't fit in was 79 00:06:35,622 --> 00:06:41,969 at a school disco. So, um, I went to an all-boys school and we'd often do discos 80 00:06:41,969 --> 00:06:48,316 with the local, uh, 2 local, um, all-girls schools. And we do these discos and I 81 00:06:48,316 --> 00:06:54,662 was— must have been about 12, 13, 14, something like that. And I was very, very 82 00:06:54,662 --> 00:07:01,009 nervous, um, because there was a dance floor and the dance floor scared me. And 83 00:07:01,009 --> 00:07:07,356 so I'd stand around the outside trying to look as cool as possible and, um, And 84 00:07:07,356 --> 00:07:13,702 then at the end of the disco, there'd be like a slow song would come on, and, 85 00:07:13,702 --> 00:07:20,049 and, uh, the boys and girls would sort of couple up and, um, and, you know, put 86 00:07:20,049 --> 00:07:26,396 their hands around each other's waist, and they'd do like a slow dance. We call 87 00:07:26,396 --> 00:07:32,742 it a slowie. Anyway, uh, this— I asked this girl if she wanted to do a slowie 88 00:07:32,742 --> 00:07:39,089 with me, and so we went on to the, the dance floor. Heart was absolutely 89 00:07:39,089 --> 00:07:45,436 pounding. And I was so nervous, probably sweating, and we started doing this, 90 00:07:45,436 --> 00:07:51,782 this slowie. Well, after about a minute, she just kind of pushed me away and 91 00:07:51,782 --> 00:07:58,129 went, I've never done a slowie that fast before. And I think I was just like so 92 00:07:58,129 --> 00:08:04,475 nervous that I was just like rocking backwards and forwards like this. And then 93 00:08:04,475 --> 00:08:10,822 she just walked off and asked somebody else, and I was left on the dance floor 94 00:08:10,822 --> 00:08:17,169 just thinking, dude, I don't fit in here. I, I don't have what it takes to look 95 00:08:17,169 --> 00:08:23,515 like I belong on this dance floor. And so I left, and I don't think I went to 96 00:08:23,515 --> 00:08:29,862 another disco, um, at that place again. And so I felt like I didn't quite 97 00:08:29,862 --> 00:08:36,209 belong. Um, and you may have situations yourself where you have been, um, and 98 00:08:36,209 --> 00:08:42,555 they're just, you know, some sort of fun examples, but this is a serious topic, 99 00:08:42,555 --> 00:08:48,902 isn't it? Because When you feel like you don't belong, when you feel like you 100 00:08:48,902 --> 00:08:55,249 don't fit in, or when you feel like you're being left out or excluded, it can 101 00:08:55,249 --> 00:09:01,595 feel really tough, really, really tough. And right from the very beginning, I 102 00:09:01,595 --> 00:09:07,942 just want you to know that nobody is excluded from God's love. It says at the 103 00:09:07,942 --> 00:09:14,289 end of Romans 8 that there's nothing that can separate us. So where you go into 104 00:09:14,289 --> 00:09:20,635 situations and you feel like you are separated, that you don't quite fit in. I 105 00:09:20,635 --> 00:09:26,982 want you to know that everybody is included when it comes to the love of God 106 00:09:26,982 --> 00:09:33,328 that is found in Jesus Christ. So I just want to begin by looking at one story 107 00:09:33,328 --> 00:09:39,675 which is from John chapter 20, it's verse 1 to 18, and this story is about Jesus 108 00:09:39,675 --> 00:09:46,022 When, excuse me, when he died, he was in the tomb, and then 3 days later he rose 109 00:09:46,022 --> 00:09:52,368 again. And one of the first people on the scene was a lady called Mary 110 00:09:52,368 --> 00:09:58,715 Magdalene. Now, this lady was an outsider. She was an outsider because back 111 00:09:58,715 --> 00:10:05,062 then, um, women had a lower social standing to men. But also, Mary Magdalene was 112 00:10:05,062 --> 00:10:11,408 somebody who Jesus had healed from demon possession. She had 7 demons inside of 113 00:10:11,408 --> 00:10:17,755 her, the Bible records, and Jesus had healed her, and she had from that moment 114 00:10:17,755 --> 00:10:24,102 become a very close apprentice or follower of Jesus. Interestingly, she is, 115 00:10:24,102 --> 00:10:30,448 according to John, the first person that Jesus appears to once he is 116 00:10:30,448 --> 00:10:36,795 resurrected. She is the first eyewitness, and therefore she is the first person 117 00:10:36,795 --> 00:10:43,142 to say Jesus is alive. Other gospels include other Marys. For example, there's 2 118 00:10:43,142 --> 00:10:49,488 other Marys in other gospel accounts that are talked about who are there at 119 00:10:49,488 --> 00:10:55,835 times. But what's just really interesting is that the Creator of the universe, 120 00:10:55,835 --> 00:11:02,182 in his grace, in his love, in his foreknowledge, decided that he was going to 121 00:11:02,182 --> 00:11:08,528 include in this story, in this most important part of the story. He was going to 122 00:11:08,528 --> 00:11:14,875 elevate this lady, um, who for most of her life will have felt like she was on 123 00:11:14,875 --> 00:11:21,221 the outside. She was given the privilege of meeting the risen Savior first and 124 00:11:21,221 --> 00:11:27,568 being the first person to declare that Jesus was risen. Now, as a little aside, 125 00:11:27,568 --> 00:11:33,915 this is also really good evidence for those of you who have a faith, or even if 126 00:11:33,915 --> 00:11:40,261 you don't have a faith, this is good evidence that the Gospels are true. Because 127 00:11:40,261 --> 00:11:46,608 if you were trying to write an account of Jesus rising from the dead, you 128 00:11:46,608 --> 00:11:52,955 wouldn't have used women as the first eyewitnesses. Josephus, who wrote around 129 00:11:52,955 --> 00:11:59,301 the time of Jesus, said And it's documented. This isn't a Christian document, 130 00:11:59,301 --> 00:12:05,648 but this is a secular document. And he wrote that women, their evidence wasn't 131 00:12:05,648 --> 00:12:11,995 even used in court at that time because they weren't seen as reliable witnesses. 132 00:12:11,995 --> 00:12:18,341 And yet the Gospel of John, of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John recounts that they 133 00:12:18,341 --> 00:12:24,688 were the first people who were, who were given the opportunity to talk about the 134 00:12:24,688 --> 00:12:31,035 resurrected Jesus. Jesus included These people, and he exalted them. He promoted 135 00:12:31,035 --> 00:12:37,381 them to these positions. If we go back a fair few years to the book of Ruth, 136 00:12:37,381 --> 00:12:43,728 some of you will know the story and some of you won't. I just want to give you a 137 00:12:43,728 --> 00:12:50,075 brief account of this story. So in the Book of Ruth, you have this lady Naomi, 138 00:12:50,075 --> 00:12:56,421 and she has 2 sons, and, um, they are both married, and she has a husband. Her 139 00:12:56,421 --> 00:13:02,768 husband dies, her 2 sons die, and one of her, um, daughters-in-law leaves. Ruth, 140 00:13:02,768 --> 00:13:09,114 the, the, the other daughter-in-law, decides that she is going to leave So Naomi 141 00:13:09,114 --> 00:13:15,461 decides that she's going to leave, and Ruth, her only daughter-in-law, decides 142 00:13:15,461 --> 00:13:21,808 that she's going to go with Naomi and she's going to follow her. Ruth, who was a 143 00:13:21,808 --> 00:13:28,154 Moabite from Moab, she decides to leave Moab, leave her people, and follow 144 00:13:28,154 --> 00:13:34,501 Naomi. Now Naomi was a poor widow, so as Ruth makes this big sacrifice to leave 145 00:13:34,501 --> 00:13:40,848 her people, to leave her gods, to leave her um, way of living and to follow 146 00:13:40,848 --> 00:13:47,194 Naomi. She is following a lady who she knows she's going to be looking after, 147 00:13:47,194 --> 00:13:53,541 and there is very, very little chance that she will get anything out of this. So 148 00:13:53,541 --> 00:13:59,888 she follows Naomi, and when they get to the place that they're traveling to, she 149 00:13:59,888 --> 00:14:06,234 then makes another big sacrifice. She goes out into the fields, which would have 150 00:14:06,234 --> 00:14:12,581 been a very dangerous place for women at that time, And she goes to try and find 151 00:14:12,581 --> 00:14:18,928 food behind the harvest. As the men were pulling up the grain, she was going 152 00:14:18,928 --> 00:14:25,274 behind trying to find some food for her and Naomi. Back then, that was a very, 153 00:14:25,274 --> 00:14:31,621 very dangerous place for a single young woman to be, but she had to do it in 154 00:14:31,621 --> 00:14:37,967 order to find food. And so she goes and she makes this sacrifice to try and find 155 00:14:37,967 --> 00:14:44,314 food for 2 of them. Later on in the story, and you can read about this story in 156 00:14:44,314 --> 00:14:50,661 Ruth, it is a fantastic story and I would encourage you to do that. She later 157 00:14:50,661 --> 00:14:57,007 marries a guy called Boaz. In marrying Boaz, so the point I'm trying to make is 158 00:14:57,007 --> 00:15:03,354 that as Ruth makes these sacrifices in order to help a poor widow. She ends up 159 00:15:03,354 --> 00:15:09,701 marrying Boaz, and as a result of that, Boaz's mum, who is Rahab, a prostitute, 160 00:15:09,701 --> 00:15:16,047 and Boaz are brought into the lineage of Jesus. So when you read in Matthew, it 161 00:15:16,047 --> 00:15:22,394 has the whole lineage of Adam all the way through David all the way to Jesus, 162 00:15:22,394 --> 00:15:28,741 his whole family tree. And what you will read in there is that Rahab and Boaz 163 00:15:28,741 --> 00:15:35,087 and Ruth are all included in that family line. Rahab was a prostitute, and she 164 00:15:35,087 --> 00:15:41,434 gets included in that family lineage along with Boaz and Ruth because of the 165 00:15:41,434 --> 00:15:47,781 sacrifices that Ruth made. These people, these outsiders, were brought into the 166 00:15:47,781 --> 00:15:54,127 family and the lineage of Jesus, the Creator and Saviour of the world. The final 167 00:15:54,127 --> 00:16:00,474 story is found in Matthew 8:1-4. This is where Jesus himself is around and he 168 00:16:00,474 --> 00:16:06,821 meets a leper. And this leper was definitely an outsider, so he was not allowed 169 00:16:06,821 --> 00:16:13,167 to mix with society because of the disease that he had. If he was to touch 170 00:16:13,167 --> 00:16:19,514 anybody, they would be seen as ceremonially unclean. They wouldn't be able to 171 00:16:19,514 --> 00:16:25,860 participate in all of the normal rhythms of life in that society. He would have 172 00:16:25,860 --> 00:16:32,207 had to stay away. Some of the time he would have had to have a bell to warn 173 00:16:32,207 --> 00:16:38,554 people that he was coming. And Jesus sees this leper, this outcast, this person 174 00:16:38,554 --> 00:16:44,900 who by law had to remain outside of the city walls, had to remain away from 175 00:16:44,900 --> 00:16:51,247 society, and Jesus's reaction is to move towards him. And to reach out and to 176 00:16:51,247 --> 00:16:57,594 touch this leper and to heal him. God seems to have a beeline for outsiders, a 177 00:16:57,594 --> 00:17:03,940 beeline for them, and he seems to want to gather and bring them into his family. 178 00:17:03,940 --> 00:17:10,287 The people who he was most angry with were the religious hierarchy of the day, 179 00:17:10,287 --> 00:17:16,634 those that created this system where there was insiders and outsiders. And I 180 00:17:16,634 --> 00:17:22,980 just want us to, first of all, just reflect on what God is like. God is not a 181 00:17:22,980 --> 00:17:29,327 God of the insiders and outsiders. He is an inclusive God who loves each And 182 00:17:29,327 --> 00:17:35,674 every single one of you, and that is great. That is a great thing for us to 183 00:17:35,674 --> 00:17:42,020 reflect on. But I want us to go a little bit further, and I want us to have a 184 00:17:42,020 --> 00:17:48,367 think about so how does this affect me? I was in a group a while back, and it 185 00:17:48,367 --> 00:17:54,713 was a very eclectic mix, shall we say, of individuals, and. Um, some of those 186 00:17:54,713 --> 00:18:01,060 individuals came from very, very difficult, very, very difficult backgrounds. 187 00:18:01,060 --> 00:18:07,407 Um, they'd had a very, very different life to me, and I found it really 188 00:18:07,407 --> 00:18:13,753 difficult in the group. I found myself— I'm not proud of this, but I found 189 00:18:13,753 --> 00:18:20,100 myself at times, um, and, and this was, this was a group where we were 190 00:18:20,100 --> 00:18:26,447 introducing people to to Jesus and introducing people to, you know, the meaning 191 00:18:26,447 --> 00:18:32,793 of life and getting to ask questions and stuff like that. But I found myself 192 00:18:32,793 --> 00:18:39,140 just looking at these people and thinking, your life is so different to mine. 193 00:18:39,140 --> 00:18:45,487 You are so different to me. And it was jarring and it was, it was difficult. And 194 00:18:45,487 --> 00:18:51,833 what I found, or what I thought as I came away from that, is that If as a 195 00:18:51,833 --> 00:18:58,180 Christian, I want people to be able to come into my— the church that I go to, if 196 00:18:58,180 --> 00:19:04,527 I want people to join in with a group maybe that I've created to try and 197 00:19:04,527 --> 00:19:10,873 introduce people to Jesus, then in order for me to help create an environment 198 00:19:10,873 --> 00:19:17,220 where they can feel like they belong, the work is not about positioning chairs 199 00:19:17,220 --> 00:19:23,567 in the right place. or making sure the food is right, or making sure that we've 200 00:19:23,567 --> 00:19:29,913 got banners up. The work actually has to start in me. The work has to start in 201 00:19:29,913 --> 00:19:36,260 me, and I have to remember that at one point I was an outsider, and it was when 202 00:19:36,260 --> 00:19:42,606 I was an outsider that Jesus looked down and loved me. And so as we reflect and 203 00:19:42,606 --> 00:19:48,953 as we think about how God has included and worked to include and to demonstrate 204 00:19:48,953 --> 00:19:55,300 his love to everybody who is, who, who is on the outside. My hope is that by 205 00:19:55,300 --> 00:20:01,646 thinking about those things, that it will slowly change my heart so that I am 206 00:20:01,646 --> 00:20:07,993 better able to be more welcoming in an, in an authentic way. Um, but, you know, 207 00:20:07,993 --> 00:20:14,340 and I'm never going to be perfect at that, and I don't think Any of us are, but 208 00:20:14,340 --> 00:20:20,686 but by reflecting on Jesus, we can be transformed. And that is my hope. That is 209 00:20:20,686 --> 00:20:27,033 my hope that we can do that. So my my thoughts as I finish are this: like how um 210 00:20:27,033 --> 00:20:33,380 how can you be more welcoming? Um what is it? Um how do you feel? How do you 211 00:20:33,380 --> 00:20:39,726 react? When you see somebody who is very different to you, somebody from a 212 00:20:39,726 --> 00:20:46,073 different social background, with a different life experience, it might just be 213 00:20:46,073 --> 00:20:52,420 that they are older or younger than you. How are you going to be Jesus to them? 214 00:20:52,420 --> 00:20:58,766 How are you going to be the welcoming, loving, gracious person that God Um, 215 00:20:58,766 --> 00:21:05,113 intends to help you, um, to be. So yeah, they are my thoughts, um, and yeah, 216 00:21:05,113 --> 00:21:11,460 that is it. 217 00:21:11,460 --> 00:21:14,089 That's a good start, Mike. 218 00:21:14,089 --> 00:21:14,950 Thanks. 219 00:21:14,950 --> 00:21:18,009 It's not it, so I just want to point that out when you say that. Yeah, yeah, 220 00:21:18,009 --> 00:21:21,070 yeah, yeah, it's not it. No, no, it's a good start. It is a good start. Thanks, 221 00:21:21,070 --> 00:21:24,130 Mike. 222 00:21:24,130 --> 00:21:24,920 That's all right. 223 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,983 Always enjoy hearing you talk, man, and Great topic to get. Yeah, you've got 224 00:21:28,983 --> 00:21:33,046 Sonia to thank for that, by the way. Um, but it is— I, I think it's one of the 225 00:21:33,046 --> 00:21:37,110 most extraordinary topics in, in scripture, isn't it? The sort of the inclusive 226 00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:41,173 inclusivity. It's not an easy word to say. It's not inclusivity of it, um, of 227 00:21:41,173 --> 00:21:45,236 the gospel of Christ, of, you know, the whole thing. I mean, thank God, 228 00:21:45,236 --> 00:21:49,299 otherwise where would I be, right? 229 00:21:49,839 --> 00:21:49,920 Yeah. 230 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:54,590 Um, what stood out to you, babe? Sorry, for those that don't know, on Crowd, let 231 00:21:54,590 --> 00:21:59,019 me just explain. For those that don't know, Sharon next to me is my wife, so I 232 00:21:59,019 --> 00:22:03,450 don't just call everybody babe. I just realized. 233 00:22:03,450 --> 00:22:04,359 I hope not anyway. 234 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,894 I can hear it all in my head, so I'm like, yeah, I should probably explain. If 235 00:22:07,894 --> 00:22:11,430 you don't know, Sharon's my wife, and so I'm okay. Babe, over to you. 236 00:22:11,430 --> 00:22:16,278 Okay. Oh, so many thoughts. I think even just when you started and you were 237 00:22:16,278 --> 00:22:21,127 giving stories about how you felt, um, like you didn't belong, I just wonder how 238 00:22:21,127 --> 00:22:25,976 many people have felt like that at some point in their life. Part of me is like, 239 00:22:25,976 --> 00:22:30,825 is there anyone who's not felt like that? And I know that some people have that 240 00:22:30,825 --> 00:22:35,673 to more degrees than others. Yeah, but yeah, because it's like I, as a child, I 241 00:22:35,673 --> 00:22:40,522 always felt that just constantly, like I don't fit in. I don't really know how 242 00:22:40,522 --> 00:22:45,371 life works. I don't get it. And I just always felt like that. So yeah. Did you 243 00:22:45,371 --> 00:22:50,220 feel like that, babe? 244 00:22:50,220 --> 00:22:54,200 I can see where this is going. 245 00:22:54,250 --> 00:22:54,740 Yes. 246 00:22:57,369 --> 00:23:01,099 I can see where this is always going. Uh, did I feel like an outsider? 247 00:23:01,099 --> 00:23:04,900 You're gonna just prove me wrong now and say, no, I didn't at all. 248 00:23:04,900 --> 00:23:09,365 No, I did. I, I think I, I— it's interesting, isn't it? Because I— again, what 249 00:23:09,365 --> 00:23:13,829 did you feel outside of? Do you know what I mean? 250 00:23:13,829 --> 00:23:18,369 I think friendship groups. Yeah. Um, I think I've— I think for me it came from, 251 00:23:18,369 --> 00:23:22,909 like I've mentioned before in a talk with my mum's permission, um, that— so my 252 00:23:22,909 --> 00:23:27,450 mum had an eating disorder And I think just some of the mentality of that just 253 00:23:27,450 --> 00:23:31,990 seeped into me. And so I just felt like I didn't really understand friendships, 254 00:23:31,990 --> 00:23:36,529 like everybody else is part of the group. And even if I was part of a group that 255 00:23:36,529 --> 00:23:41,069 I was just hanging on, like they were tolerating me rather than actually wanted 256 00:23:41,069 --> 00:23:45,609 me, which probably wasn't true. But that's just how I always felt. And I, and I 257 00:23:45,609 --> 00:23:50,149 felt like other people understood life and how to do life. And I was clueless. 258 00:23:50,149 --> 00:23:54,690 Like, it's like, how do you guys know how to do— how to do this friendship 259 00:23:54,690 --> 00:23:59,230 thing? How do you know to do, you know, this, that, and the other? Just didn't 260 00:23:59,230 --> 00:24:03,769 get it. 261 00:24:03,769 --> 00:24:07,948 It's an interesting one. Yeah, I, I would say when I was growing up, I, I mean, 262 00:24:07,948 --> 00:24:12,125 I was, I was definitely bullied, but, um, at least for a season, and until my 263 00:24:12,125 --> 00:24:16,304 mum shipped me off to judo and made me learn how to fight. But that's another 264 00:24:16,304 --> 00:24:20,481 story. I can, though, resonate with the, uh, dance floor story, which is why I 265 00:24:20,481 --> 00:24:24,660 was laughing. 266 00:24:24,660 --> 00:24:24,960 Oh, right. 267 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:26,279 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 268 00:24:26,579 --> 00:24:31,309 Just the whole, uh, 9— I don't know what decade you grew up in, Mike, but I— it 269 00:24:31,309 --> 00:24:36,039 was the '80s for me. And in the whole 1980s disco, just, um, you know, oh, just 270 00:24:36,039 --> 00:24:40,769 walking up to a girl. It's funny how dating was back then. It's not like now 271 00:24:40,769 --> 00:24:45,500 where you've got Snapchat and you can't respond straight away, all the rules 272 00:24:45,500 --> 00:24:50,230 they've got, whereas we're just like Fancy dance. I love the slowie name as well. 273 00:24:50,230 --> 00:24:51,779 Yeah, it's very Scouse. 274 00:24:51,779 --> 00:24:52,519 It's very Scouse. 275 00:24:52,650 --> 00:24:52,829 Yeah, yeah. 276 00:24:52,980 --> 00:24:58,535 Do you fancy— do you fancy a slowie? That would probably have meant something 277 00:24:58,535 --> 00:25:04,090 else where I grew up, but that's okay. And so I, I totally resonate with that 278 00:25:04,090 --> 00:25:09,644 and just the amount of rejection. Yeah, just on the dance floor. And rejection 279 00:25:09,644 --> 00:25:15,200 obviously is very closely tied into not Yeah, yeah. Part of belonging. 280 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:15,789 Yeah. 281 00:25:15,789 --> 00:25:20,346 So I think there are lots of different reasons why we don't feel like we belong, 282 00:25:20,346 --> 00:25:24,902 don't we? Like, it could maybe be you're from a different ethnicity to what the 283 00:25:24,902 --> 00:25:29,458 majority is. Maybe you're autistic or you've got some sort of illness, either 284 00:25:29,458 --> 00:25:34,014 very obvious or invisible. Could be to do with your family background. There are 285 00:25:34,014 --> 00:25:38,571 just so many things that can make us feel like we don't fit and like we're on 286 00:25:38,571 --> 00:25:43,127 the edge and we don't deserve Yeah, whatever, we don't deserve God's love. Yeah, 287 00:25:43,127 --> 00:25:47,683 that he's not going to want us. Yeah. So that was my first thought, just 288 00:25:47,683 --> 00:25:52,240 wondering. So I don't know if anyone's put anything in the comments on— 289 00:25:52,420 --> 00:25:57,496 shall we have a look? Um, so Ellis has put here, great topic. As someone who 290 00:25:57,496 --> 00:26:02,573 feels like an outsider in literally every aspect of my life, it's always 291 00:26:02,573 --> 00:26:07,650 interesting to me when the Bible speaks of putting the lonely in families. 292 00:26:07,650 --> 00:26:09,950 Yeah, it's a great— that's a great verse, isn't it? 293 00:26:09,950 --> 00:26:15,136 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. Um, Alicia said, positioning our hearts to include 294 00:26:15,136 --> 00:26:20,323 others certainly involves a lot more than positioning chairs. 100%. That's a 295 00:26:20,323 --> 00:26:25,509 good phrase. Yeah, yeah. Um, Talita says, uh, it sure feels welcoming here. 296 00:26:25,509 --> 00:26:30,696 Thank you, everyone. Um, I caught myself thinking before the service of the 297 00:26:30,696 --> 00:26:35,883 sheer power of come as you are when it comes to Jesus because in a way, when we 298 00:26:35,883 --> 00:26:41,069 feel broken, we don't feel welcome. So some interesting comments. 299 00:26:41,069 --> 00:26:45,278 Yeah, yeah, that's good. Whereas I think, um, the people around Jesus picked up 300 00:26:45,278 --> 00:26:49,485 on that, didn't they? Because he hung around with the broken, the people that 301 00:26:49,485 --> 00:26:53,693 other people looked down on. Yeah. And his answer to that was, I didn't come for 302 00:26:53,693 --> 00:26:57,901 the, the healthy, I came for the sick. So yeah, yeah, which actually is all of 303 00:26:57,901 --> 00:27:02,109 us, but some of us I think recognize that More than others. 304 00:27:02,460 --> 00:27:02,690 Yeah. 305 00:27:02,950 --> 00:27:05,595 If you are in that place of being an outcast, maybe you feel that more. Um, 306 00:27:05,595 --> 00:27:08,240 yeah. 307 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,410 There is an elephant in the room though. 308 00:27:10,970 --> 00:27:11,140 Yeah. 309 00:27:11,690 --> 00:27:17,974 Um, that it is probably worth— you're scratching your head now. What's the 310 00:27:17,974 --> 00:27:24,259 elephant? I'm desperately trying to think what it is. Um, in the sense that, um, 311 00:27:24,259 --> 00:27:30,545 Welcome versus endorsement, right? And this is a really interesting, I think, 312 00:27:30,545 --> 00:27:36,829 topic when it comes to the Christian faith. 313 00:27:36,829 --> 00:27:37,119 Yeah. 314 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:42,139 Because I think, uh, the church has come across quite often as not being 315 00:27:42,139 --> 00:27:47,159 welcoming because it is not endorsed, right? You do not endorse my lifestyle, 316 00:27:47,159 --> 00:27:52,180 therefore you are not welcoming. Uh, and what we see with Jesus actually is he 317 00:27:52,180 --> 00:27:57,200 manages this tension of welcoming but not endorsing, but not really caring about 318 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:02,220 that in the first instance. 319 00:28:02,220 --> 00:28:02,609 Yeah. 320 00:28:02,609 --> 00:28:03,109 Yeah. 321 00:28:03,109 --> 00:28:07,659 Um, it's like, well, let's deal with this, which is getting to know me, and then 322 00:28:07,659 --> 00:28:12,209 we can deal with the rest of the stuff. Um, and so, yeah, I think it's worth 323 00:28:12,209 --> 00:28:16,759 pointing that out because we talk a lot about the inclusivity of the Gospels of 324 00:28:16,759 --> 00:28:21,309 Christ, you know, the, the whole thing that you do come— like Talia says, you 325 00:28:21,309 --> 00:28:25,859 come as you are. You come broken. 326 00:28:26,329 --> 00:28:26,569 Yeah. 327 00:28:26,670 --> 00:28:28,030 And you don't have to come whole. In fact, if you're waiting for that, you never 328 00:28:28,030 --> 00:28:29,390 make it. 329 00:28:29,700 --> 00:28:29,910 Yeah. 330 00:28:30,140 --> 00:28:34,079 Yeah. Um, but this— but we have to tread carefully, I think, around this topic 331 00:28:34,079 --> 00:28:38,019 of endorsement. 332 00:28:38,519 --> 00:28:38,630 Yeah. 333 00:28:38,789 --> 00:28:38,940 Yeah. 334 00:28:39,259 --> 00:28:40,490 When saying to people, come as you are. 335 00:28:40,490 --> 00:28:44,444 Yeah. I think we're all included, aren't we? Like, the invitation is for 336 00:28:44,444 --> 00:28:48,400 everybody, so everyone is included in that. And also, we are all included in the 337 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,355 invitation to repent. And so the things in our life that are not pleasing to 338 00:28:52,355 --> 00:28:56,309 God, to actually— he's inviting us to go, you know, you need to leave those 339 00:28:56,309 --> 00:29:00,265 behind. You need to leave that sin. You need to leave that part of your 340 00:29:00,265 --> 00:29:04,220 lifestyle. 341 00:29:04,589 --> 00:29:05,420 Yeah, it's for all. 342 00:29:05,630 --> 00:29:08,779 Again, very inclusive. That's for all of us as well. Yeah, yeah. 343 00:29:09,069 --> 00:29:14,399 I know, um, uh, someone much wiser than me said that God loves us just as we 344 00:29:14,399 --> 00:29:19,730 are, but he loves us so much he's not prepared to leave us that way. And I 345 00:29:19,730 --> 00:29:25,059 think, you know, I, I, I've said on this podcast before lots of times, but, you 346 00:29:25,059 --> 00:29:30,389 know, in, in Romans it is, it is very, very clear— and not just Romans, but lots 347 00:29:30,389 --> 00:29:35,720 of other places— that God is changing every single one of us into the likeness 348 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:41,049 of Jesus. And, and for all of us, we've got to reconcile that God is changing 349 00:29:41,049 --> 00:29:46,380 me. He's changing me into something that reflects his glory better. And so does 350 00:29:46,380 --> 00:29:51,710 he accept me? Absolutely. 351 00:29:51,710 --> 00:29:52,119 Yeah. 352 00:29:52,119 --> 00:29:57,887 Wholeheartedly. But from the day I accept him, he is changing me into, you know, 353 00:29:57,887 --> 00:30:03,654 glory after glory after glory after glory. And, you know, so that's not— that's 354 00:30:03,654 --> 00:30:09,422 not saying that that, that this person or this person is, is better or worse 355 00:30:09,422 --> 00:30:15,190 than another person. We are all accepted, but we are all being called to change. 356 00:30:15,420 --> 00:30:15,670 Yeah. 357 00:30:16,059 --> 00:30:20,099 Um, but, but it, you know, it is a really good point. 358 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:20,900 Yeah. 359 00:30:20,900 --> 00:30:25,065 I thought you were going to talk about a different elephant, so maybe there's 2. 360 00:30:25,065 --> 00:30:29,230 Oh, maybe there's a herd. Yeah. 361 00:30:29,230 --> 00:30:34,569 We've got a herd of elephants tonight. I love this. What's the second elephant? 362 00:30:34,569 --> 00:30:40,391 The one I was thinking of is that obviously Jesus, like, does invite all of us 363 00:30:40,391 --> 00:30:46,213 into this relationship with him, and he invites all of us to repent and to be 364 00:30:46,213 --> 00:30:52,034 changed into the glory that you've talked about, Mike. And the church is meant 365 00:30:52,034 --> 00:30:57,856 to be somewhere where everybody is welcomed, no matter how many broken. But 366 00:30:57,856 --> 00:31:03,678 actually, church has often been actually a very painful place for people to go 367 00:31:03,678 --> 00:31:09,500 and has actually contributed to people being broken. Yeah. So it— 368 00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:10,269 Yeah. 369 00:31:10,269 --> 00:31:14,446 It's like this theory and like God's heart is incredible. But as a church, we've 370 00:31:14,446 --> 00:31:18,623 not— as a global church, we've not always been great at the outworking. And it 371 00:31:18,623 --> 00:31:22,799 does make me think, oh, I wonder who I've missed it with. Do you know what I 372 00:31:22,799 --> 00:31:26,976 mean? Who— the people that have slipped through the cracks that Yeah, that I've— 373 00:31:26,976 --> 00:31:31,153 if that's you and you're out there listening, please let me know. Yeah, yeah, 374 00:31:31,153 --> 00:31:35,329 it's totally unintentional. Yeah. 375 00:31:35,690 --> 00:31:41,690 And, you know, I, I, I don't— I was, um, I, I think you're just dead right. I 376 00:31:41,690 --> 00:31:47,690 think, you know, we are, we are being changed and we are not there yet. And so 377 00:31:47,690 --> 00:31:53,690 as people, as a, as a bride, as a community, we are trying to do our best and, 378 00:31:53,690 --> 00:31:59,690 you know, and getting it wrong and needing to, to, to be open and honest about 379 00:31:59,690 --> 00:32:05,690 that. But, uh, and I think in order for us to be more welcoming and to prevent 380 00:32:05,690 --> 00:32:11,690 people from, um, being hurt and falling through that net, um, one of the things 381 00:32:11,690 --> 00:32:17,690 is, is to make sure that I'm getting to the point. In social media, we try to 382 00:32:17,690 --> 00:32:23,690 put our best face on. 383 00:32:23,690 --> 00:32:24,190 Yeah. 384 00:32:24,190 --> 00:32:28,196 And we try to demonstrate to the world our best face. And that's no different a 385 00:32:28,196 --> 00:32:32,203 lot of the time for me when I'm in church. I am wanting to put my best face on. 386 00:32:32,203 --> 00:32:36,210 I wanted to demonstrate that I am a good Christian. But what happens then when I 387 00:32:36,210 --> 00:32:40,216 do that, and you do that, Matt, and you do that, and we all do that, is that 388 00:32:40,216 --> 00:32:44,223 anybody who is broken, who is outside, who comes in, all they see are these 389 00:32:44,223 --> 00:32:48,230 absolutely perfect people. 390 00:32:48,460 --> 00:32:48,779 Yeah. 391 00:32:49,019 --> 00:32:50,960 And they just— well, I don't fit in there. 392 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:51,359 Yeah. 393 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:51,579 Yeah. 394 00:32:51,890 --> 00:32:57,408 And, and, and so they leave. And so the challenge is for us to, to, to wear our, 395 00:32:57,408 --> 00:33:02,927 our scars and our bruises and our weaknesses, um, in— and to talk about them as, 396 00:33:02,927 --> 00:33:08,445 as much as we talk about our successes. And that's not to say, you know, when 397 00:33:08,445 --> 00:33:13,964 things are going well that you don't praise God for that, and you don't talk 398 00:33:13,964 --> 00:33:19,482 about that. But, you know, people who aren't Christians who are broken in the 399 00:33:19,482 --> 00:33:25,001 same way that we are broken are not going to find a place that they feel that 400 00:33:25,001 --> 00:33:30,519 they can fit into if all we're doing is showing our best face. 401 00:33:30,519 --> 00:33:31,059 Yeah. 402 00:33:31,059 --> 00:33:35,165 And that has its own challenge as well. Um, totally agree with that. But as 403 00:33:35,165 --> 00:33:39,271 well, it's like, it is because Part of me is like, but there are some things 404 00:33:39,271 --> 00:33:43,377 that are appropriate to share widely, and there are some things that are 405 00:33:43,377 --> 00:33:47,482 appropriate just to keep within a small group. So I think we need a lot of 406 00:33:47,482 --> 00:33:51,588 wisdom with that as well, like not, not oversharing to the point actually it's 407 00:33:51,588 --> 00:33:55,694 going to be detrimental. Yeah, but sharing enough so that people know, oh, 408 00:33:55,694 --> 00:33:59,799 actually they do have their struggles too. 409 00:33:59,799 --> 00:34:05,342 Yeah, I was talking about, um, I was talking with my daughter this afternoon 410 00:34:05,342 --> 00:34:10,884 about, um, just ratios and how, like, even if a big church is a welcoming 411 00:34:10,884 --> 00:34:16,426 church, someone who comes from outside is still a minority, even in a very 412 00:34:16,426 --> 00:34:21,968 welcoming church. But if we make the churches smaller and we have welcoming 413 00:34:21,968 --> 00:34:27,511 small groups, then that, you know, it's common sense, isn't it? But, but that 414 00:34:27,511 --> 00:34:33,053 then becomes a much more accessible place where somebody can find a place to 415 00:34:33,053 --> 00:34:38,595 belong. find, um, belonging than, than in a big sort of Sunday megachurch super 416 00:34:38,595 --> 00:34:44,137 service kind of thing. I mean, I suppose it's a little bit easier to hide, but, 417 00:34:44,137 --> 00:34:49,679 but it's also— I don't know. 418 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:50,510 I don't know. 419 00:34:50,659 --> 00:34:52,434 You know, I'm talking from the point of view of somebody who's grown up in 420 00:34:52,434 --> 00:34:54,210 church. 421 00:34:54,210 --> 00:34:54,599 Yeah. 422 00:34:54,599 --> 00:34:58,153 So, you know, I've been in church all my life. You know, I'm, I'm kind of 423 00:34:58,153 --> 00:35:01,706 guessing really what it feels like to be to be an outsider and to walk into, to 424 00:35:01,706 --> 00:35:05,260 walk into a big church. 425 00:35:05,260 --> 00:35:10,140 Whereas I think, I mean, this is one of the reasons we, we, I enjoy Crowd so 426 00:35:10,140 --> 00:35:15,020 much is because there's a lot of people who find it nigh on impossible to walk 427 00:35:15,020 --> 00:35:19,900 into a church building. Yeah, yeah, right. Um, and again, it's why we do Alpha 428 00:35:19,900 --> 00:35:24,780 online. You know, if you want to do Alpha, by the way, we've started one. Uh, 429 00:35:24,780 --> 00:35:29,660 more information on the website, www.crowd.church. Um, but it's, it's I think 430 00:35:29,660 --> 00:35:34,539 it's hard when you're— because church, like anything else— I, I remember the 431 00:35:34,539 --> 00:35:39,420 first time I walked into a CrossFit gym, right? I had no idea. I felt like such 432 00:35:39,420 --> 00:35:44,300 an outsider at the language. 433 00:35:44,300 --> 00:35:44,519 Yeah. 434 00:35:44,519 --> 00:35:49,059 The way they dress, the way they did exercise, the way they would sort of talk 435 00:35:49,059 --> 00:35:53,599 to each other, the way— I, I had no idea. And you feel really uncomfortable 436 00:35:53,599 --> 00:35:58,139 because you're like, what are the expectations? How do I How do I meet these 437 00:35:58,139 --> 00:36:02,679 expectations? What the heck does that mean when you say AMRAP? And you, you 438 00:36:02,679 --> 00:36:07,219 translate that into the church, and it made me think a lot about the church back 439 00:36:07,219 --> 00:36:11,760 then. You know, we'll use phrases like repentance or the blood sacrifice of 440 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:16,300 Christ. It's like, if you've— what does that mean, right? Especially if you've 441 00:36:16,300 --> 00:36:20,840 never been before. Um, and so I, I think one of the— an interesting question, 442 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:25,380 actually, just segueing into it from Ellis. If somebody feels like an outsider, 443 00:36:25,380 --> 00:36:29,920 what's the best way to come to understand that they aren't? And I think this is 444 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,460 a really great question. 445 00:36:34,460 --> 00:36:35,210 Yeah. 446 00:36:35,210 --> 00:36:39,943 And there's so many ways to answer it, right? But I would say you've got to get 447 00:36:39,943 --> 00:36:44,677 to a point where you're okay feeling like an outsider at the beginning. Right? 448 00:36:44,677 --> 00:36:49,412 Because if you join a gym, if you join a church, if you go along to something, 449 00:36:49,412 --> 00:36:54,146 by very definition, you are new and therefore will feel a bit like an outsider. 450 00:36:54,146 --> 00:36:58,880 That said, I get that you can go along to things and feel like an outsider for a 451 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:03,614 long time. Because people aren't comfortable in their skin, they're not 452 00:37:03,614 --> 00:37:08,347 comfortable in their group. You know, you mentioned about church not being the 453 00:37:08,347 --> 00:37:13,082 best place sometimes for people. So how would you answer that question? How do 454 00:37:13,082 --> 00:37:17,816 you— how would you answer the— if someone feels like an outsider, what's the 455 00:37:17,816 --> 00:37:22,550 best way to come to understand that they aren't? 456 00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:27,762 I think, talk specifically from a spiritual point of view, um, as Mike was 457 00:37:27,762 --> 00:37:32,974 talking, reminded me of a verse in 1 Timothy which talks about, um, how God 458 00:37:32,974 --> 00:37:38,186 wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. It's like 459 00:37:38,186 --> 00:37:43,398 God wants all people to have that relationship with him. So I think it's a 460 00:37:43,398 --> 00:37:48,610 starting point of knowing actually that is God's heart. 461 00:37:48,610 --> 00:37:48,900 Yeah. 462 00:37:49,210 --> 00:37:52,539 And that Jesus came for everybody. 463 00:37:52,539 --> 00:37:53,510 Yeah. 464 00:37:53,510 --> 00:37:58,450 And it's like being able to accept that. I think for me, a lot of it's really 465 00:37:58,450 --> 00:38:03,390 getting into the truth of what the Bible says, like knowing what does God say 466 00:38:03,390 --> 00:38:08,330 about me? What does he think about me? And just like spending ages just soaking 467 00:38:08,330 --> 00:38:13,269 in that, getting it in and choosing to accept it. And I think getting around 468 00:38:13,269 --> 00:38:18,210 people that can actually help with that, people that— if you could just find one 469 00:38:18,210 --> 00:38:23,150 person in a church that you can click with and can start to help you build those 470 00:38:23,150 --> 00:38:28,090 relationships. Um, yeah, I don't know if that's helpful or not. 471 00:38:28,090 --> 00:38:32,757 I, I think that's, I think that's the key. I think learning about what Jesus 472 00:38:32,757 --> 00:38:37,425 thinks about you, you know, is the key, isn't it? I mean, even if you go into a 473 00:38:37,425 --> 00:38:42,093 welcome— I mean, that, that is the most important thing. If you go into a 474 00:38:42,093 --> 00:38:46,761 welcoming church and feel really, really welcomed, The most important thing is 475 00:38:46,761 --> 00:38:51,428 still that you know that Jesus loves you and that he welcomes you and that you 476 00:38:51,428 --> 00:38:56,096 are part of his family. And I think, you know, if, if you know that, then it 477 00:38:56,096 --> 00:39:00,764 gives you a little bit more confidence to go into somewhere. And I think what 478 00:39:00,764 --> 00:39:05,432 you were saying, Matt, is, you know, if you go into a— you decide to go and do 479 00:39:05,432 --> 00:39:10,099 an Alpha course, when you get there, you are new. 480 00:39:10,099 --> 00:39:10,539 Yeah. 481 00:39:13,190 --> 00:39:16,797 You, you're not— you may feel a little bit like an outsider, but to begin with, 482 00:39:16,797 --> 00:39:20,404 you are just new. And if you go there and you know that God loves you, that he 483 00:39:20,404 --> 00:39:24,012 accepts you, then that will probably give you the confidence or maybe the 484 00:39:24,012 --> 00:39:27,619 resilience to stay a little bit longer. 485 00:39:27,619 --> 00:39:28,579 Yeah. 486 00:39:28,579 --> 00:39:34,548 Um, and then hopefully you do find the community that are also aware of their 487 00:39:34,548 --> 00:39:40,517 brokenness and their acceptance in Jesus and, and And if that is the case, then 488 00:39:40,517 --> 00:39:46,486 then they're going to accept you as well. I think you know, I think repentance 489 00:39:46,486 --> 00:39:52,454 is a really important process and regular rhythm that that is transformative for 490 00:39:52,454 --> 00:39:58,423 us as Christians because as we repent, we remember that that that we are saved 491 00:39:58,423 --> 00:40:04,392 only by the grace of God, and as we do that. we become more welcoming and, and 492 00:40:04,392 --> 00:40:10,361 more empathetic and more, um, prepared to listen and to, to listen to other 493 00:40:10,361 --> 00:40:16,329 people's stories and therefore become more welcoming. Yeah, I think— 494 00:40:16,329 --> 00:40:20,300 I'm aware we've used the word repent quite a few times, but there might be 495 00:40:20,300 --> 00:40:24,269 people that don't know what that means. So, babes, definition. 496 00:40:24,269 --> 00:40:24,849 Oh, thanks. 497 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:30,449 Well, I, I, well, I think, I think the, the, the Greek for repentance, I think, 498 00:40:30,449 --> 00:40:34,659 can literally be translated as a change of mind. 499 00:40:34,659 --> 00:40:35,079 Yeah. 500 00:40:35,079 --> 00:40:40,582 So one of the verses, I can't remember where it is off the top of my head, but 501 00:40:40,582 --> 00:40:46,084 it says, do not conform any longer to the patterns of this world, but be 502 00:40:46,084 --> 00:40:51,586 transformed by the renewing of your mind. Now that verse could, if my brain is 503 00:40:51,586 --> 00:40:57,088 working, could be translated, don't conform any longer to the pattern of this 504 00:40:57,088 --> 00:41:02,591 world, but be transformed through Repentance. So repentance is a renewing, a 505 00:41:02,591 --> 00:41:08,093 changing of your mind. It's changing, pivoting in a different direction, and, 506 00:41:08,093 --> 00:41:13,595 and moving in a, a way, in a, in a different direction, away from, away from 507 00:41:13,595 --> 00:41:19,097 what is bad. Sorry, I got a bit lost towards the end there. Yeah, yeah, go on, 508 00:41:19,097 --> 00:41:24,599 pick me up, fill in the gaps. 509 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:29,000 It's fair comment. It's fair. It's just simply turning around. That's all it is. 510 00:41:29,050 --> 00:41:29,239 Yeah. 511 00:41:29,309 --> 00:41:33,644 Just go the opposite way. Yeah. And I— and that's what I think you mean by it. 512 00:41:33,644 --> 00:41:37,980 But it is transforming your mind. It's changing the way you think. Yeah. 513 00:41:38,519 --> 00:41:42,045 And so not just any random thing, but specifically this is talking about, you 514 00:41:42,045 --> 00:41:45,570 know, what does God say about this? 515 00:41:46,309 --> 00:41:51,504 Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's understanding the truth of God. And and getting your 516 00:41:51,504 --> 00:41:56,698 mind to think that way, and I and you're right. I think the fundamental thing we 517 00:41:56,698 --> 00:42:01,892 see in scripture was Jesus would take people that were broken, and he would give 518 00:42:01,892 --> 00:42:07,087 them dignity. Do you know what I mean? He would take someone whose life did not 519 00:42:07,087 --> 00:42:12,281 conform to what society and the religious people thought it should be at the 520 00:42:12,281 --> 00:42:17,475 time, and he would welcome them, and he would sit down with them, and he would 521 00:42:17,475 --> 00:42:22,670 eat with them. And he would give them a place at the table. And in that place, 522 00:42:22,670 --> 00:42:27,864 that transformation, that repentance, like we said, would happen. And I think 523 00:42:27,864 --> 00:42:33,058 it's when you when you realize you've you've been given the dignity, you've been 524 00:42:33,058 --> 00:42:38,252 given the place at the table. There's a really great story of a guy called 525 00:42:38,252 --> 00:42:43,447 Mephibosheth. Don't ask me how to spell his name. Mephibosheth. He's he's a He's 526 00:42:43,447 --> 00:42:48,641 the son of a guy called Jonathan in the Old Testament, and Jonathan was a 527 00:42:48,641 --> 00:42:53,835 prince, and Mephibosheth kind of got dropped on his head as a baby and became, 528 00:42:53,835 --> 00:42:59,030 um, became disabled. I don't think— I think he couldn't walk. 529 00:42:59,030 --> 00:42:59,920 I think it was his leg. 530 00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:03,006 Yeah, something rather than his head. Yeah, well, anyway, he couldn't walk. It's 531 00:43:03,006 --> 00:43:06,093 not in a good way. And he lives in a place called Lo Debar because it's below 532 00:43:06,093 --> 00:43:09,179 the bar. 533 00:43:09,250 --> 00:43:11,079 I mean, there's This joke isn't that good. 534 00:43:11,219 --> 00:43:15,642 What kind of place is Lo Debar? It's below the bar. It's not a great place. And 535 00:43:15,642 --> 00:43:20,064 David is king, and, um, David sends out his soldiers to go find Mephibosheth, 536 00:43:20,064 --> 00:43:24,487 who thinks David's going to kill him. But David brings him into the house and 537 00:43:24,487 --> 00:43:28,909 gives him a seat at the table. 538 00:43:28,909 --> 00:43:29,239 Wow. 539 00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:32,210 Because of the covenant he had with Jonathan, right? 540 00:43:32,210 --> 00:43:32,369 Wow. 541 00:43:32,369 --> 00:43:37,133 He, like, he gives him a shedload of land. He restores a whole bunch of stuff 542 00:43:37,133 --> 00:43:41,896 that was taken away from him. And this is sort of this really redemptive story, 543 00:43:41,896 --> 00:43:46,660 um, of this disabled guy who would have been an outcast who was invited in and 544 00:43:46,660 --> 00:43:51,423 given a seat at the table. And that's you, right? That's me. Um, you know, when, 545 00:43:51,423 --> 00:43:56,186 when we see these things and it's like the Psalm 23, the very famous Psalm, he 546 00:43:56,186 --> 00:44:00,950 prepares a table before me in the presence of my— there's a table, there's a 547 00:44:00,950 --> 00:44:05,713 heavenly banqueting table. And there's going to be chocolate on it, and it's not 548 00:44:05,713 --> 00:44:10,477 going to calorie count. And there's all kinds of things that we've, you know, 549 00:44:10,477 --> 00:44:15,240 we've got access to through Christ. But the thing that we have to do is 550 00:44:15,240 --> 00:44:20,003 understand that, because, um, there's a famous story of someone who managed to 551 00:44:20,003 --> 00:44:24,767 scrape enough money to buy a ticket to, um, for the ship to the States, right? 552 00:44:24,767 --> 00:44:29,530 This is back when obviously we were Populating America, and they got this 553 00:44:29,530 --> 00:44:34,294 ticket. They scrimped and scraped and managed to get enough to get this ticket, 554 00:44:34,294 --> 00:44:39,057 and they're on the ship, and they see everybody dancing and eating food, and 555 00:44:39,057 --> 00:44:43,820 they're sort of sitting outside going, "Oh, I've not got enough. You know, all I 556 00:44:43,820 --> 00:44:48,584 had, I had all I had. I got to buy the ticket, and so I couldn't afford the 557 00:44:48,584 --> 00:44:53,347 food, and so we're eating scraps and all kinds of things." And it wasn't until 558 00:44:53,347 --> 00:44:58,111 they got to the other side, someone says, "What are you doing out here?" Someone 559 00:44:58,111 --> 00:45:02,874 sees them. Why are you not? in there eating? And they said, oh, because I, I 560 00:45:02,874 --> 00:45:07,637 spent all my money on getting the ticket, I couldn't afford the food. And the 561 00:45:07,637 --> 00:45:12,401 guy goes, dude, the food was included in the price of the ticket, right? And 562 00:45:12,401 --> 00:45:17,164 it's— there's just that revelation, that understanding that actually you have 563 00:45:17,164 --> 00:45:21,928 been given these things. But unless we understand it, we're like the guy sat 564 00:45:21,928 --> 00:45:26,691 outside, kind of half in all the things that God has given us. We never quite 565 00:45:26,691 --> 00:45:31,454 step into everything that he has. And I think that's a great image of being an 566 00:45:31,454 --> 00:45:36,218 outsider. And actually, one of the truths of Christianity is longer you walk 567 00:45:36,218 --> 00:45:40,981 with Christ, the more he draws you not into his inner circle, but more into the 568 00:45:40,981 --> 00:45:45,745 understanding that that's where you actually sit. So when Ephesians says we are 569 00:45:45,745 --> 00:45:50,508 seated in heavenly places, um, at his right hand, that's an incredible 570 00:45:50,508 --> 00:45:55,271 statement. And I don't fully understand it, but I understand it more now. Do you 571 00:45:55,271 --> 00:46:00,035 mean— and I And I think that's where the confidence comes. Maybe that's where 572 00:46:00,035 --> 00:46:04,798 the boldness comes from. And I— and as you walk in that and understanding it, 573 00:46:04,798 --> 00:46:09,562 life just takes a very different turn. And so I would say if you feel like an 574 00:46:09,562 --> 00:46:14,325 outsider, the first thing you need to do is feel like you are sat at the King's 575 00:46:14,325 --> 00:46:19,088 table, not because you deserve it, maybe not because you earned it, but just 576 00:46:19,088 --> 00:46:23,852 because the King went, you're worth it. And he gives you dignity and he puts you 577 00:46:23,852 --> 00:46:28,615 there. So that would be my answer. Anyway, we are going to—we are streaming onto 578 00:46:28,615 --> 00:46:33,379 YouTube. We are streaming into the Zoom room. We're going to stop the Zoom. 579 00:46:33,379 --> 00:46:38,142 We're going to stop streaming into the Zoom room. The guys in Live Lounge are 580 00:46:38,142 --> 00:46:42,905 going to carry on their conversation. So if you're in Live Lounge, you go for 581 00:46:42,905 --> 00:46:47,669 it. Dan's going to take a hold of that, and we can see everybody in Live Lounge. 582 00:46:47,669 --> 00:46:52,432 Way to everybody. Uh, they're all looking very happy. Um, so yeah, Talita's 583 00:46:52,432 --> 00:46:57,196 waving hello. Uh, so we will leave those guys now. Zoe, you can put us on mute. 584 00:46:57,196 --> 00:47:01,959 There we go. And we're going to carry on the conversation here on YouTube. Um, 585 00:47:01,959 --> 00:47:06,722 if you want to go talk physically to people, the link's in the comments to 586 00:47:06,722 --> 00:47:11,486 scroll back, go.crowd.church/livelounge. Um, but let's carry on the conversation 587 00:47:11,486 --> 00:47:16,249 here. So here's a question for you. Why did Jesus spend time with the sinners? 588 00:47:16,249 --> 00:47:21,013 We talked about this, um, inclusivity thing. Why would Jesus do that if he is a 589 00:47:21,013 --> 00:47:25,776 holy God and holiness matters? This is actually one of the big problems that the 590 00:47:25,776 --> 00:47:30,539 religious people had with Jesus, wasn't it, at the time? 591 00:47:30,539 --> 00:47:30,980 Yeah. 592 00:47:30,980 --> 00:47:31,949 That he would do this. 593 00:47:31,949 --> 00:47:40,719 Well, I mean, When— whenever I am reading the Gospels, all I see is that, is 594 00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:49,490 that Jesus is actually drawn to sinners. He's drawn— you know, I was talking 595 00:47:49,490 --> 00:47:58,260 about the leper before. Jesus's reaction was to reach out and touch the leper. 596 00:47:58,260 --> 00:47:58,929 Mm-hmm. 597 00:48:00,190 --> 00:48:05,569 Because what happened in that is that in that current day and age, the leprosy 598 00:48:05,569 --> 00:48:10,949 from the leper would have infected Jesus. 599 00:48:10,949 --> 00:48:11,500 Yes. 600 00:48:11,500 --> 00:48:16,630 But what happened was Jesus's holiness infected the leper. 601 00:48:16,630 --> 00:48:17,079 Yeah. 602 00:48:17,079 --> 00:48:23,263 And so it was the other way around. So as Jesus's holiness infects the leper and 603 00:48:23,263 --> 00:48:29,447 makes the leper clean, and his life is transformed. And so Jesus's holiness was 604 00:48:29,447 --> 00:48:35,631 something that was healing. Um, and you know, I, I think I, I get where the 605 00:48:35,631 --> 00:48:41,815 tension is. I do. Um, and I find it difficult to explain it. Um, but when I read 606 00:48:41,815 --> 00:48:47,999 the Gospels, I see a holy God Totally holy, totally holy, being drawn to 607 00:48:47,999 --> 00:48:54,183 sinners. Yeah. Um, and be— and, and healing them. Yeah. You know, I think the, 608 00:48:54,183 --> 00:49:00,366 the story about, uh, Jesus when he, he's brought the lady who's caught in the 609 00:49:00,366 --> 00:49:06,550 act of adultery and he says to her, um, you know, I do not condemn you. Yeah. 610 00:49:06,550 --> 00:49:12,734 But he then goes on to say, doesn't he? He says You know, go and sin no more. 611 00:49:12,734 --> 00:49:18,918 That is an act of repentance, isn't it? You're acting in one way. I don't 612 00:49:18,918 --> 00:49:25,102 condemn you. Now that you know that I don't condemn you, what I'm asking you to 613 00:49:25,102 --> 00:49:31,286 do is to pivot and to go and act in a different way now. Um, his holiness is 614 00:49:31,286 --> 00:49:37,469 healing. 615 00:49:37,469 --> 00:49:42,592 Yeah. Um, yeah, yeah. It's interesting as well when you follow it through, 616 00:49:42,592 --> 00:49:47,715 because did Jesus include everybody, everybody in the Gospels? It's a really 617 00:49:47,715 --> 00:49:52,838 interesting conversation because we would go, yes, but did he, right? The one 618 00:49:52,838 --> 00:49:57,960 people group that he perpetually targeted, for want of a better expression, were 619 00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:03,083 the religious leaders, right? The Pharisees, the Sadducees. And it's not that 620 00:50:03,083 --> 00:50:08,206 they— it's not that he didn't include them, because we know that he did. There 621 00:50:08,206 --> 00:50:13,329 were Pharisees in part of his group and stuff. It was the ones that perpetually 622 00:50:13,329 --> 00:50:18,451 put him out, the ones that perpetually judged other people, that wouldn't 623 00:50:18,451 --> 00:50:23,574 include other people the way that he did. And Jesus is like— I think this ties 624 00:50:23,574 --> 00:50:28,697 into the holiness thing, you know, that I didn't— it's not the sick— I didn't 625 00:50:28,697 --> 00:50:33,820 come— what was it that he says? It's not the sick. 626 00:50:33,820 --> 00:50:35,690 I didn't come for the healthy, but I came for the sick. 627 00:50:35,690 --> 00:50:42,242 Because it's the, you know, it's not the, the the healthy that need a doctor. 628 00:50:42,242 --> 00:50:48,793 And I think when you come to him and you meet that holiness, if the result of 629 00:50:48,793 --> 00:50:55,346 that is stubbornness and pigheadedness and a non-submission to both his lordship 630 00:50:55,346 --> 00:51:01,897 and his call for you to include other people, yeah, it seems by— not by him 631 00:51:01,897 --> 00:51:08,449 pushing you out, you are choosing to be excluded from that. 632 00:51:08,449 --> 00:51:08,769 Yeah, yeah. 633 00:51:08,769 --> 00:51:09,489 Just see what I mean? 634 00:51:09,489 --> 00:51:10,230 Yeah, yeah. 635 00:51:10,230 --> 00:51:14,798 And I think there's, like you say, when you— when it comes to that holiness, why 636 00:51:14,798 --> 00:51:19,367 did he hang around sinners if holiness was important? It's because holiness was 637 00:51:19,367 --> 00:51:23,935 important— is important that he hangs around sinners. Do you know what I mean? 638 00:51:23,935 --> 00:51:28,504 And I think— and it's that call into that, um, that we, we as people find hard, 639 00:51:28,504 --> 00:51:33,072 I think, because there is a cost. It is a denial of self. You, you are going to 640 00:51:33,072 --> 00:51:37,641 have to welcome people you don't want to be around, right, who maybe physically 641 00:51:37,641 --> 00:51:42,210 stink, but also you may find morally repugnant. 642 00:51:42,210 --> 00:51:42,820 Yeah. 643 00:51:42,820 --> 00:51:47,776 Do you know what I mean? It's like, can a Democrat and a Republican be a 644 00:51:47,776 --> 00:51:52,733 Christian? Yes, right? And, and can they be in the same room? Well, I'm not 645 00:51:52,733 --> 00:51:57,690 quite so sure these days. Maybe they can. And so it's, it's, it's one of those 646 00:51:57,690 --> 00:52:02,646 where that call, that drive to holiness, you have to lay aside the repugnance, 647 00:52:02,646 --> 00:52:07,603 the anger, the bitterness, because the person in front of you is an image bearer 648 00:52:07,603 --> 00:52:12,559 of God. Yeah. Do you see what I mean? 649 00:52:12,559 --> 00:52:17,743 Yeah, I think, um, I think that the death and resurrection of Jesus on the cross 650 00:52:17,743 --> 00:52:22,927 are this— the perfect illustration of how God deals with this tension of He is 651 00:52:22,927 --> 00:52:28,111 completely loving and loves all of us. And the Bible says that all have sinned 652 00:52:28,111 --> 00:52:33,295 and fall short of the glory of God and are justified freely by God's grace. So, 653 00:52:33,295 --> 00:52:38,478 um, I think like I said before, it's like some people recognize that they're 654 00:52:38,478 --> 00:52:43,662 sinners and some don't, but all of us actually are. So Jesus came for all of us. 655 00:52:43,662 --> 00:52:48,846 And it's like, because our sin, the things we get wrong where we miss God's 656 00:52:48,846 --> 00:52:54,030 standard, is so important to him, holiness is so important. 657 00:52:54,030 --> 00:52:54,329 Mm-hmm. 658 00:52:54,460 --> 00:53:00,453 That's why Jesus came to die, to take the punishment we deserve, because 659 00:53:00,453 --> 00:53:06,446 otherwise we would be eternally separated from God. But on the cross, it's like 660 00:53:06,446 --> 00:53:12,440 the collision of his justice, his love, his holiness, all wrapped up together. 661 00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:13,650 Yeah. 662 00:53:13,650 --> 00:53:17,220 Yeah. And it talks about how Jesus became sin so that we could become the 663 00:53:17,220 --> 00:53:20,789 righteousness of God. I'm not sure if we've mentioned that already. So it's like 664 00:53:20,789 --> 00:53:24,360 this direct swap. 665 00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:24,880 Yeah. 666 00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,349 Um, yeah, that's a good question. 667 00:53:27,349 --> 00:53:33,194 Yeah, fascinates me. A few other things here. The individual versus the crowd. 668 00:53:33,194 --> 00:53:39,039 So Jesus often dignifies one overlooked person rather than treating people as a 669 00:53:39,039 --> 00:53:44,884 social issue to solve. I think that's a really important thing. Um, I, I wish we 670 00:53:44,884 --> 00:53:50,730 had time to dig into that a little bit more. Um, I love this quote. Jesus moves 671 00:53:50,730 --> 00:53:56,574 toward people whom others move away from. He gives dignity before people have 672 00:53:56,574 --> 00:54:02,420 earned it, fellowship before people have fixed everything, and truth that 673 00:54:02,420 --> 00:54:08,264 invites a new life rather than shame that pushes people further away. That's 674 00:54:08,264 --> 00:54:14,109 good. That's great. I think it's such a great quote. Jesus moves towards people 675 00:54:14,109 --> 00:54:19,954 whom others move away from. He gives dignity before people have earned it. 676 00:54:19,954 --> 00:54:25,799 Fellowship before people have fixed everything, and truth that invites a new 677 00:54:25,799 --> 00:54:31,644 life rather than shame that pushes people further away. This is not a shallow 678 00:54:31,644 --> 00:54:37,489 inclusion. It is a costly, holy relational inclusion, the kind that sees every 679 00:54:37,489 --> 00:54:43,335 person clearly, refuses contempt, and invites everyone into the transforming 680 00:54:43,335 --> 00:54:49,179 life of the kingdom of God. Love that. Yeah, it's great. It's great. 681 00:54:49,340 --> 00:54:56,614 I was thinking as you were talking about the conflict, I suppose, between 682 00:54:56,614 --> 00:55:03,887 holiness and love for us now. And I was thinking about that verse. I think— I 683 00:55:03,887 --> 00:55:11,162 don't know where it is, but it's where Paul is talking, and he says basically, 684 00:55:11,162 --> 00:55:18,436 if a— I'm gonna get this wrong, I'm gonna butcher this— I'll try and find it. 685 00:55:18,436 --> 00:55:25,710 But it's where if a Christian continues to keep on sinning, then you are to put 686 00:55:25,710 --> 00:55:32,983 them outside of the church. But the reason why you put them outside is so that 687 00:55:32,983 --> 00:55:40,257 they may be saved. And so it's that, like, exclusion in order Yeah. To include 688 00:55:40,257 --> 00:55:47,532 them. It's that we are holy, and so in love we are going to exclude you in order 689 00:55:47,532 --> 00:55:54,806 that you might be saved, in order that you may at some point come back in and, 690 00:55:54,806 --> 00:56:02,079 and, you know, and be included. It's like our heart is, is, is always inclusion. 691 00:56:02,079 --> 00:56:02,599 Yeah. 692 00:56:02,599 --> 00:56:03,900 But yeah. 693 00:56:03,900 --> 00:56:08,860 No, it's true. I, I think it's It's, it's such a good point, Mike, because the 694 00:56:08,860 --> 00:56:13,820 most extreme part of church discipline, as we would call it, is to exclude 695 00:56:13,820 --> 00:56:18,780 someone from fellowship. 696 00:56:18,780 --> 00:56:19,360 Yeah. 697 00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:23,812 Is to literally put them on the outside and say, until you change your ways, 698 00:56:23,812 --> 00:56:28,265 you, you have to be outside, right? And it's— I, I think you're right. I think 699 00:56:28,265 --> 00:56:32,718 it's such a— it's a, it's a really It's such a bad thing that that's what 700 00:56:32,718 --> 00:56:37,171 happens. That's where it— I mean, that's, that's the ultimate. Yeah. Like, you 701 00:56:37,171 --> 00:56:41,624 know, like when you're a kid, you're— we used to joke with our kids, you'd go on 702 00:56:41,624 --> 00:56:46,077 the naughty step, and it's like we were excluded from everything. We used to 703 00:56:46,077 --> 00:56:50,530 joke, can we go on the naughty step? Because we just fancy being there. 704 00:56:50,530 --> 00:56:53,090 I think it was actually the chill-out chair. Oh, the chill-out chair sounds a 705 00:56:53,090 --> 00:56:55,650 lot nicer. Just calm down. 706 00:56:55,920 --> 00:57:01,293 Calm down. Can I go there? But it's interesting how, um, some of the most 707 00:57:01,293 --> 00:57:06,666 horrific torture that happens to a human being is all based around exclusion. Do 708 00:57:06,666 --> 00:57:12,039 you know what I mean? And exclusion is a punishment in many ways. It's a— and 709 00:57:12,039 --> 00:57:17,413 it's— yeah, we haven't got time to get into this whole topic of church 710 00:57:17,413 --> 00:57:22,786 discipline, uh, as interesting as that is. Um, but I think we'll end it there. 711 00:57:22,786 --> 00:57:28,160 Uh, we'll end The livestream. Do join us next week as we're going to carry on 712 00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:33,533 this series, Jesus the Revolutionary. I'm going to look down at my phone, which 713 00:57:33,533 --> 00:57:38,906 I know I'm not supposed to do, but I'm going to figure out who's doing what next 714 00:57:38,906 --> 00:57:44,280 week. Oh, Dan's back. He's just snuck into the room quietly. 715 00:57:44,489 --> 00:57:47,920 He's been excluded. Yeah, he's been kicked out. 716 00:57:48,309 --> 00:57:52,317 So we've got. AIDS, uh, speaking next week. We've got Will and Jan hosting, um, 717 00:57:52,317 --> 00:57:56,324 so do come join us for that as we carry on the conversations around Jesus the 718 00:57:56,324 --> 00:58:00,331 Revolutionary. Every bit of information you want to know about Crowd is going to 719 00:58:00,331 --> 00:58:04,338 probably be on the website www.crowd.church. There's all kinds of stuff on 720 00:58:04,338 --> 00:58:08,345 there. There's stuff about Alpha if you'd like to come along, join us for Alpha, 721 00:58:08,345 --> 00:58:12,352 a course that explores Christianity. We are going to start week 3 this week. 722 00:58:12,352 --> 00:58:16,360 It's definitely not too late to join, if you would like to do so, just go to the 723 00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:20,367 website and just click the registration form. I know a few people, a few more 724 00:58:20,367 --> 00:58:24,374 people have registered this week, which is great. Um, there's information about 725 00:58:24,374 --> 00:58:28,381 that. Uh, there's information about all the topics we've talked about tonight. 726 00:58:28,381 --> 00:58:32,388 You'll— there's a big catalog of stuff on there. If you'd like to join the 727 00:58:32,388 --> 00:58:36,395 community groups, the midweek community groups information's on there. All kinds 728 00:58:36,395 --> 00:58:40,402 of ways to get in touch with us and contact us. Basically the website, 729 00:58:40,402 --> 00:58:44,409 www.crowd.church. We would love for you to get more involved. If you need it, if 730 00:58:44,409 --> 00:58:48,417 you would you want to make Crowd your church, we'd love for you to get involved 731 00:58:48,417 --> 00:58:52,424 in Crowd. And like I say, the membership group, um, membership groups that 732 00:58:52,424 --> 00:58:56,431 happen on a Wednesday are really good places to meet people and connect with 733 00:58:56,431 --> 00:59:00,438 people and be included. And we have people from all over the world in them. 734 00:59:00,438 --> 00:59:04,445 They're amazing. Uh, and obviously likewise, Alpha is also actually quite an 735 00:59:04,445 --> 00:59:08,452 inclusive community group as well. So love to see you in some of those. But 736 00:59:08,452 --> 00:59:12,460 anything else from you, babe, in closing? 737 00:59:12,460 --> 00:59:14,170 I don't think so, no. 738 00:59:14,170 --> 00:59:17,019 Uh, Mike, anything else from you? 739 00:59:17,019 --> 00:59:21,260 Uh, no, I think I've said everything that I can think of. 740 00:59:21,260 --> 00:59:23,550 You've definitely not said everything. 741 00:59:25,659 --> 00:59:26,730 We know you like to talk. 742 00:59:31,639 --> 00:59:34,500 On that bombshell, we're going to end it this week. Thank you so much for 743 00:59:34,500 --> 00:59:37,359 joining us. Have a phenomenal week wherever you are in the world. We will see 744 00:59:37,359 --> 00:59:40,219 you next time. God bless you. Bye for now.