Welcome to the Functional Tennis Podcast, brought to you by my favorite tennis shoe company, asics, and I'm your host, Fabio Molly, where I bring you insights and lessons from players, coaches, parents and experts who are ingrained in the world of high level tennis.

Today I chat with British pro Liam Brody.

When he first came on the podcast, his goal was to break into the top 100 and he did it.

Since then, it's been a wild ride.

In this episode, Liam opens up about the highs and lows of tour life.

Winning matches at Wimbledon, dealing with injuries and a concussion, the pressure of rankings and how lifestyle choice have shaped his game.

He also shares thoughts on doping, role models, and the memorable chat with Pep Guardiola.

Liam is one of my favorite guests to speak with and I guarantee you'll enjoy this one.

Liam, welcome back to the Functional Tennis Podcast.

How are you?

I'm good, thank you.

I'm good.

How are you?

Good, yeah.

You were last on here in 2021, October, I think you just won a challenger and Beal at the time, you were looking to break into the top hundred, which you did a couple of years later, which was amaz.

And your ranking was there and now it's gone the other way.

So, interested to find out what's been going on and any new lessons you've learned in the past four years and while you're still playing tennis or what keeps you going, because it can't be easy on the grind there week in, week out and dealing with all sorts of things.

So, yeah, how are you, first of all?

Yeah, I'm doing well.

I'm doing well, as you said.

Obviously it's been an up and down few years.

It's kind of cool to be coming back on.

Like you said that I had that dream of making the top hundred.

I'd won my first challenger title.

I remember at the time that was such a huge moment for me.

But, yeah, especially now being on the other side having my ranking drop again.

It's quite funny to be back on here again with all of the lessons I've learned over those last four years.

So basically you're in the same position, but you're a lot more intelligent now.

Or wise.

Yeah, we'll say wise, not intelligent.

Breaking into the top hundred.

Do you remember the match, the moment?

Yeah, I do.

It was I was in Saint Tropez challenger.

I think it's 125 challenger, not obviously last year, the year before.

And I'd basically played like 6, 7, 8 challenges in a row and I'd had Some really consistent runs.

I think I've made three or four semifinals in three or four weeks.

I made last round qualities of US Open.

I went straight to France straight after.

I didn't take a break to go and play in.

In Europe on the challenger tour there.

And then the same thing again, made semifinals in that first week in France.

And I remember it got to the stage where, like, for four or five weeks in a row, I was top hundred on the live rankings at the start of the week.

And then this is how competitive tennis is as well.

Right.

Especially at that sort of ranking.

I'd be top hundred at the start of the week, and by the end of the week, I'd have made semis of a challenger and I'd be 103.

And it happened for like four or five weeks in a row.

Me and my brother were really laughing about it.

And then the final week.

And actually, the funny thing was I was going to take a week or a couple of weeks break after Saint Tropez, because I think I'd basically been on the road for.

For three months or so and.

And not taking a break for eight or nine weeks.

So we kind of said, look, this is the last opportunity.

If it happens, it happens.

If not, it doesn't.

Again, same thing started the week live ranking top 100.

I won my first round.

I was outside the top hundred, won the second round.

And then I think I had to win the quarterfinals to.

It was guaranteed.

Then I had to win my quarterfinals match.

I was playing Arthur Cazal.

Okay.

Which obviously is not easy in France.

Yeah, I think.

I mean, I had a really tough draw.

I think I beat Lucas Klein there, beat Cazale.

Who else did I beat?

There were a couple tough matches, actually.

And then I lost Celestian in the final, who's a good player, too.

But I beat Kazal basically to.

To make top hundred.

And actually, it was a shame because I was a set and a breakup and he.

He got injured, so he had to retire.

Oh, look, I'm sure you take that.

Anyway.

Come on.

I'll tell you what, I was almost like that kid the other day that went crazy when Chapaval, the German kid.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

You know, it was his first eight.

He's only.

He's only gone 17.

First ATP win.

You can see the bill.

This amazing.

But then he's like, okay, let me bring that right back.

And he got it.

He got slaughtered online like the, you know, kids don't need to be.

He's only a kid, like.

And he Got absolutely slaughtered.

I think stuff like that, it makes headlines though.

That's almost like the most important thing, right?

I think a lot of people nowadays are probably a little bit too robotic.

You know, I see a lot of people complain that a lot of the top players, their interviews are always the same, the answers are always the same.

So I think it's nice to see a little bit of a difference sometimes.

Yeah, no, look, I definitely.

You need that.

He got a lot of press over that and I actually like, he's practiced with the saber.

So for me, as a couple of saber videos and practice, like, great, great time to introduce this video.

So.

But he's a good kid and I'm sure he won't next time.

He'd be a bit more relaxed.

So is it top hundred?

Is it like 100 or 99?

If you got the top 100 in the world, would that count in your books?

Or do you have to hit the 99 or does it really matter?

You know what, A lot of us Brits have had this argument so many times and I think nobody really agrees.

I mean, I know I was always told that you had to be double figures, right?

And that 100 didn't count because it was triple figures.

And I think on the ACP website, I think the first page of the rankings only goes to 99.

So I think we always said, oh, you have to be on the first, first page to be classed as the top hundred.

And well, I snuck in at 93, so.

So I, I got, I got a bit of a way in there.

Anyway.

That was what, 2023.

We're like two years since then.

How's everything been?

Yeah, so, you know, I finished 2023.

I think I just dropped outside top 100.

I think I was like 102 or 103 at the time.

And then I went to Hong Kong for the warm up for Australian Open and I picked up an injury on my ankle in my preseason.

But it's a difficult one with players because sometimes it's hard to differentiate as to whether you've got a niggle or an injury.

And obviously the older you get, the more, you know, I'm never playing injury, sorry.

I'm never playing pain free anymore.

You know, that's.

I think that's the same for most players.

And unfortunately, you know, this one just kept developing, kept developing.

I'd take a couple days off, it would be a bit better, you know, then it would be back by the end of the week, take a couple days off.

So I went to Hong Kong.

It felt pretty awful after the flight, but then, you know, started to play really well.

So I, I qualified there.

I think I'd be, you know, a guy 70 in the world.

I'll be a couple guys around 150.

So I was playing really well and then played Rublev second round, had set points against him, lost in straights.

But during that match I got the physio on and I became pretty aware that I wouldn't be able to continue with the pain that I was in.

I knew then I had a pretty good feeling that it was a bone injury, which obviously is probably one of the, the ones that you want the least as a player.

You know, obviously if it's bone or ligament or something like that, then, then it can be a pretty long time out.

So I, I still wanted to play Australia.

So I said to my coach, I'm going to take three days off.

I don't, in hindsight that was probably the worst idea ever.

I said, oh, I'm gonna take three days off, let's go to Australia and you know, I'll play without any practice if I have to.

Flew to Australia, decided to get a scan there and saw the physio and she basically said if you keep playing on this then your ankle's gonna break.

And you know, that kind of.

And I kind of was like, you know, how long is that out?

And she said, well, you know, in that area of the ankle it's quite a tricky place and load bearing joints are really tricky to heal anyway.

So if you say, you know, it could be six months, nine months, you just don't know.

So that kind of put the brakes on really quickly and I, you know, kind of scared me a little bit, which is probably what I needed to stop me playing.

So I, I stopped there and even still I tried to come back too soon after, you know, five or six weeks because that was the thing.

After Hong Kong, I was back in the top hundred again.

Yeah, and, and I had a Challenger 100 and a Challenger 100 final.

So a win and a final to come off in that six week period.

So I thought if, if I don't play, I'm going to be Back to square one.

I'm going to be, you know, 160.

And I've worked my whole life to get to the top hundred and I really need to take advantage now.

So I try.

Worst decision probably of my career.

I tried to come back after five or six weeks, made it so much worse.

I went to Delray Beach, I played hijakata in three sets, which, as you can imagine, there was a lot of movement on the hard there.

I was supposed to play Cabo, didn't play because of the injury.

Went to Acapulco, played les the end again.

Just.

I.

I don't know how I even played those events looking back.

I then went to Indian Wells.

I beat PMAN's first round qualifying, got smoked by Saboth Wild.

But after each match, you know, I was having to take a couple days off because the pain was too much.

And then.

And are you knocking back the painkillers as well?

Yeah, yeah, of course.

Well, because I couldn't sleep otherwise.

And then.

And then I went to Phoenix, that, you know, the 175 challenger there.

I played qualifying, I won around, and then I think I lost to Walton in three sets.

And during that match, I turned to my coach and I said, I can't keep doing this.

I said, I'm going home, like, because we were still going to go and play Miami, obviously, right?

Everybody wants to play Miami.

It's a big tournament.

And I turned to my coach, I said, I can't do this.

I'm not coming back to the court until.

Until I'm fit or.

Or I'm.

I'm just not going to come back.

It's too much, you know.

And unfortunately, after that, I was out till Wimbledon, and then I got the infamous knock on the head.

I got a concussion.

We.

What happened there a week out from when I was supposed to start competing, I was like, okay, my ankle's feeling good.

Banged my head off the roof of my.

Of my car, the.

Off the trunk of my car, I should say, and somehow got a moderate concussion.

I was like, it was a bizarre experience.

The concussion was actually scarier than the ankle because I've never had a brain injury before, right.

And you start to lose your marbles a little bit, your emotions go funny, you slur your speech, you can't read.

You get really weird symptoms in it.

What happened?

Were you just on a step or something and the boot was open and you went into it or.

So did you know, like, on the, on the electric trunks, you can, like, pause them part way.

Yeah.

And I was parked in, like, again, like, what are the chances on this?

I was saying it afterwards.

Like, if I hadn't parked in that specific space, I would have just let the trunk open all the way.

I parked in a space where I had, like, a low light, low, low hanging pipe.

Paused it halfway.

All the tennis balls fell out.

Fell out my, My trunk as you Know, obviously classic tennis player.

And I've gone, oh, no.

I was really stressed at the time.

I was managing a load of stuff.

I got.

Oh, my gosh, like, bent down.

I'm trying to pick up all these 30 tennis balls, put them back in the box, and I've just stood back up without thinking about it and cracked the back of my head off the corner of the trunk.

And I was stood in the car park for, like, 15 minutes just staring at the wall and.

But I didn't realize it at the time.

It was the strangest thing, I think, because it obviously just knocked the sense out of me.

And funnily enough, Natha Baines, her dad, she's a female British tennis player, her dad came over, and I think he thought I was trying to figure out the pay as you go on the.

He thought I was trying to figure out the parking machine.

I hope he listens to this.

I think he thought I was trying to figure out how to pay.

And he came over and he went, oh, it's pay with his pay when you leave, by the way.

And I was like.

I was like, what?

What?

You know, oh, right, okay.

Yes.

I think if he hadn't come over, I'd have probably been there for about half an hour.

But then, weirdly enough, I left, had the weekend off.

I was fine.

I didn't really have any symptoms.

Returned to full training on the Monday, because I thought at the time.

I thought, do I.

I was a bit, like, grumpy over the weekend, but, you know, nothing too severe.

Nothing out of the.

Not new.

And then I.

I resumed training on the Monday.

I was practicing with a guy called Stu Parker on the grass.

And I'll never forget it.

I'm having a great session.

45 minutes into the session, I ran for a drop shot.

And, you know, you'll know if you've ever had a migraine when you're.

When your eyes go a bit funny and you get black spots in your vision, and I'm looking down the court, you know, we have a long point.

I think it's to do with your heart.

Your heart rate, if it gets too high.

And I looked down the court, I couldn't see the other end of the court.

And, you know, I didn't have any symptoms at the time, but, you know, as someone who does get migraines, I thought, here we go.

I've got a big one on the way.

And I said, look, I'm gonna have to go.

Go off the court.

Like, you know, I'm so sorry.

Blah, Blah, blah, went and sat down.

And that's when my speech started going.

My.

My reading.

It was just the strangest, strangest.

Do you think you're having a heart attack or did you quickly place it back to I don't know.

It's a funny one because, you know, when you watch sport and you see the football players or the rugby players and the, you know, they have a concussion, but they won't come off the pitch.

They refuse to.

When you have the concussion, it's really bizarre.

You get quite.

Because it messes with the.

The part of your brain that controls your emotions.

You get quite defensive and almost like, touchy about, oh, no, I don't have a migraine.

I don't.

I don't have.

And I was the same.

And then luckily enough, the lta, they do like a concussion baseline test every year that you have to pass to get the medical done.

So I basically was strong arm to come into the NTC the following day and obviously failed the concussion test miserably.

Yeah.

And then that's what I obviously was told.

It's not mild.

It's a moderate concussion.

And I was like, oh, right.

And she's like, yeah, like your emotions can go a bit funny.

I was like, oh, yeah, okay.

And I was thinking I was in my room crying for three hours on my own yesterday for no reason that would make sense now because I'm, you know, I'm not a type of person to cry anyway.

But it.

It just sends you just loopy.

It's bizarre.

So how many weeks did they recommend you not play?

So I couldn't pick up a racket for, I think it was 13 or 14 days, which obviously, you know, after that, I had four or five days to prepare for Eastbourne and then played Nishioko, probably one of the guys you don't want to play when you've hardly hit a ball and you're recovering from a brain injury and then lost to Botek at Wimbledon again, which is a really tough draw.

Are you points to defender as well?

Did you.

Did you do.

Yeah, yeah.

So I made.

I made third round of Wimbledon.

So that was another 90 points.

So by this point, I'd lost, you know, probably 75 of my ranking points.

That's.

And you're just like, this year is killing me.

You know, you go from such a high in.

In 2023.

Was it or 2022 or 2023.

It was the end of 23 and.

The start of 23 is such a high.

You be Casper.

You be Casper Rude In Wimbledon?

Yeah.

Just.

I'm going all over the place here.

But what was it like, first round Wimbledon?

Yeah.

Playing Casper Rude, I think.

Was that first round or second round?

I think I beat Les Dien.

Okay.

Second.

And.

And then.

Well, you don't know.

If you don't know, I'm in trouble.

So it must have been like it was a childhood dream.

Yeah.

I've played.

Do you know what?

I've played on Central Court for many or a few times over the years, and I've played on one.

You know, I've been privileged enough to have that honor on both courts, but I'd never had the privilege to win on it.

And that always has stuck with me because I had a big thing from my junior career that I only ever made it to the number two in the world in my junior career.

And I was setting a breakup in the finals of junior Wimbledon on court one.

Who's that against?

Against Luke Savile.

Yes.

Yeah, I think we talked about it before.

Yeah, yeah.

And we were both playing for the number one spot.

Sadly, I lost there.

So to win on center court in the manner that I did against, obviously a player rank 4 in the world, it felt like it put a lot of the demons, you know, and bad voices in my head to rest after.

After almost well over a decade.

Yeah, no, I'm sure, sure it does.

Like, it must.

Like, we often talk about.

We play.

We don't start talking enough about it.

When you might have played some juniors and where you played them, then the senior career, and the commentators say, oh, they've played each other once on the ATP tour, it's 10 to Seville, but you're like, we played 10 juniors and that guy beat me every time.

You know, there's a lot that history still goes on.

Do you know what that I have won against Luca Pui, the French player.

We've been playing against each other since we were about 11 years old, and I've never beaten the damn guy.

And across every age group, I.

I don't know how, because as a junior, I was always one of the best, but he was always better than me.

And I guess that kind of makes sense as to how he turned out.

I mean, he was number eight in the world and one of the best players on the planet.

But he beat me in Saint Tropez last year.

And I think our pro.

Our pro head to head, like you said, was like loving, like, oh, and one or something.

I was thinking, I played this guy about 25 times.

It's 250 here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you're probably like, even if he's not playing well, I know his rankings being down, but he's still.

He's so streaky, like, hot.

You still have that baggage in you that the guy just knows how to play it.

100.

I think that's why I think sometimes it can be beneficial to have had a stellar junior career.

Obviously, there are players like a Sinner or an Alcaraz who just completely leapfrog the junior game.

I think it happens a lot more in the women's game.

I think, you know, you get a lot of players sort of 14 or 15 years old that are already competing on.

Well, I guess Coco Galf is a prime example.

Right.

She was 14 and.

Yeah.

Did she beat Venus at Wimbledon 14 or something stupid like that?

I think.

Can't remember.

I don't want to say, because I'd be wrong.

Yeah, yeah.

But.

But, you know, in the women's game, it's more common, whereas obviously in the men's that, like you said, you get a lot of players that almost develop towards the end of their junior career or, you know, into their first couple of years as a pro.

Yeah.

No, I think maybe Alcaraz played 14th, then he went straight to Futures.

I'm sure Sinner probably didn't even play 14.

He probably just sweat.

He just showed up at some Futures event.

But it's even funny.

Dimitrov said it.

I'm not sure where he said it, but he's like all the.

It's a bit similar, but different to what we're talking about, where he, you know, he's so much baggage against the top players.

He's beaten by him so much time.

So every time he goes out and plays with them, he knows they've beaten them.

It's a struggle for him.

But the new guys come along who, you know, the men.

Six of the world, Artiffe.

They've never played the.

The older, better guys, and they can seem to, you know, there's no baggage there.

They've no fear, and they can go out and get the wins like it.

So mental.

It's unbelievable.

Yeah, that's.

I actually didn't hear that.

That's an interesting point from Gregor.

I'm sure it does.

You know, he's probably played Novak 40 times in his career and, you know, also played Novak at his peak, so, I mean, there's some scar tissue there because, I mean, he was just invincible at one point.

But I don't know.

I would say that, you know, for A few years now, they've been talking about the next gen and how these players, you know, haven't been coming through and.

And they probably should be.

I know Novak mentioned a couple times, right, he was saying, we're the next gen still, you know, where are the next gen?

But these younger kids, they've obviously come through watching.

So, I mean, you know, Alcross, to be fair, at 14 years old, he might.

He might have been too young to be watching tennis.

That's a tough one to say.

True.

But look, he's.

He's just got the express ticket, the Concorde flight to the top of the game.

But look, yeah, you're not going to get there if you're not good enough, so.

No, of course not.

I mean, I mean, what he did when he came on tour, he was.

He was levels above the challenger, the challenger tour.

I mean, he.

I think the first time I saw him play was a challenger in Trieste and he.

I think he.

I think he might have lost to Musetti in the semis or the final.

And Musetti was about 15 years old or 16, and Alcaraz was still 14.

And I was watching the match and obviously I was like, 140 in the world, 150 in the world.

10 years.

Yeah.

And I lost in the quarterfinals and I was watching this match and I was thinking, holy shit, why the fuck am I playing tennis?

I'm sorry for the language, but there.

Must be a point where you're saying I'm never going to be able to.

Well, I won't.

Sorry.

It thinks I'm never going to be able to beat this guy.

Obviously you will get a chance, but you're like, why bother?

Oh, I mean, I mean, it was the same.

When I watched Sinner for the first time, I actually put a tweet out saying this Guy's future top 20.

In the end it was.

It was pretty.

It was a safe bet to make.

But I remember watching him in Lexington Challenger, and I had never seen anyone hit the ball like him.

He hit it.

I mean, as you know, he does now.

But as.

As a kid, you're watching him hit the ball and it was so natural and I just.

The sound off the strings, I thought, I've never seen at such a clean ball strike.

And he was such a skinny kid as.

Well, you know, it's kind of like where's.

It defied the laws of physics.

It was like, where's the power coming from?

He still is quite skinny.

Like, he paints the legs like, you know, but you don't need muscle to.

You know, it's leverage and technique and all sorts.

So it was about muscle.

They'd be all.

Be massive lads.

That's true.

But so.

So getting back to.

Yeah, Wimbledon, obviously.

Concussion.

Did you play Wimbledon?

Sorry.

Now.

I.

I did.

Oh, you did.

Sorry.

You said you lost.

I lost in four, I think.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

So the rest of the year, then.

Like, that's 20.

Did it come together?

Injury?

What happened?

Not really.

So.

So I went to America to play some of the challenges I didn't get into a couple of the weeks, and then I injured my elbow, and I had to go and get a scan.

I was supposed to play Boo Yun Chakotay in Lincoln, Nebraska, in the challenger.

Their first round, which, I mean, maybe it wouldn't have gone how I wanted it to anyway, but my elbow was.

I had a bad elbow issue, so I had to go and get a scan, and it turned out that I'd partially torn a ligament in my elbow, so I had to take some time off for that one.

And then, I mean, but by the end of this, you know, it was back to square one.

I mean, I tried to go to Asia at the end of last year because I thought, oh, you know, it'll be an opportunity to get into some challenger matches.

Went to Asia, got into one of the qualifying, won a round of qualifying.

Obviously, no confidence by this point, not playing well, and then didn't get into the final weeks with my ranking, so went to Japan for one week in the end and had to come home.

And, you know, so it is.

I've almost been starting off what feels like almost unranked at this point.

Yeah, you're back at ground zero.

Like, you're just starting on the tour again.

And how's the body right now?

Yeah, right now it's the best it's been for 12 months, thankfully, which is, for me, the most important thing.

I mean, you know, I'm managing the elbow issue all the time.

If the symptoms get too bad, then the doctor told me I'd have to get an operation.

They said that it's not gonna get worse.

The symptoms will be there.

So it's just something that I'm gonna have to manage now, and I'm getting better at doing that.

I mean, there was a tournament earlier in the year that I couldn't play because of my elbow bothering me.

But right now, I'm feeling the best I've felt since.

Since the whole fiasco.

And you guys being the players, moan a lot about the balls lately.

I'm not sure what you've put out there, but, you know, it's talked about all the time, different balls.

And what's has.

One is the balls been part of your injury?

Do you think that's a reason?

And two, is.

What's your opinion on the ball situation?

Yeah, I do think it would be a lot easier for everybody involved if there was one standardized ball for the tour.

But I mean, I guess the other problem is we've got four Slams, an ATP Tour and an ITF Tour, and really the Challenger tour is kind of separate as well.

So which ball is standardized?

I'm not sure.

You know, I'm not sure the Slams would use an ATP standardized balls.

Well, I'm telling you, they.

They wouldn't.

And I'm not sure the ITF would use the ATP standardized ball either, so.

So I'm not sure it's ever going to happen, to be honest.

Yeah, it's a messy ice.

Last week I saw, I think it was Holger Rune and Holger Rune and Sarah Praxson, they're hitting balls.

And first of all, I saw, I saw Dimitrov practice.

He was like, man, this ball's a bit too heavy.

He said it just stayed on his racket too long.

He wasn't getting enough from it.

And then I went over and Zera practicing with Holgaroon, and Zerif just stopped the practice.

He goes, wait, stop.

Show me that ball.

He goes, this is not the ball.

And Holger's like, I got them from tournament desk.

And he goes, notice a different ball.

And it turns out one had a logo, one didn't.

But he know, you know, he noticed that.

He knew.

And he goes, look, get rid of those balls here.

We can't be practicing with those.

So it's kind of was just interesting to hear the players talk about and how quick they pick up on things and little things.

But it's definitely from the outside.

I hear more of, you know, all our injuries are because of this, but I don't know.

Yeah, so, I mean, look, players, we would pick up on an extra gram on the racket, you know, so if there's an extra half a gram on the ball, you bet they're going to notice.

If there's, you know, 20% more ball fur or if it's a different type of material used, they're going to notice that as well.

I think.

I think it's probably.

It's the development of the technology in the sport.

The tennis rackets are more powerful than ever.

The balls are probably Slower.

The courts have got slower to kind of counteract that.

So I think I.

I saw a video on YouTube.

Somebody did a video of, like, the 2000 Wimbledon final compared to the 2024 Wimbledon final.

And the speed of the ball off each player's racket, obviously, in 2024 was much quicker comparatively, but the actual time of the rally shots between balls was exactly the same.

Oh, wow.

So court and ball slow.

Everything's been slowed down.

Slow mo.

There's more power and more speed and more strength in the sport, but everything's been slowed down to keep it the same, if that makes sense.

Yeah, no, that makes total sense.

It'd be interesting to see if everything played true to their speed.

Like, grass was rocket quick.

You'd probably love.

You'd be like, need more grass courts and, you know, and whatever.

The clay court was much slower.

Hate that.

And then the other two, more balanced.

But the rankings would be quite different, I reckon.

I do wish that they would do that.

I mean, that's why it was so impressive when Borg won the Channel Slam, Right?

Because back then, the clay and the grass, they were two completely different surfaces.

Is that what you call the Channel Slam?

Well, that's.

That's what I call it.

Anyway.

Okay.

It's good.

I was like.

For a sec, I was, like, agreeing, which is like, what the hell is that?

Like.

That'S what I call it.

Anyway, when he won it, I mean, it was like the grass was ice and the clay was obviously a clay court.

Whereas now I do think that the grass has got a lot slower.

It is noticeably faster than the other surfaces still.

But it's kind of led to the death of the serv.

Volley.

Right.

And the chip and charge and the.

You know, would.

Would.

Would Johnny McEnroe have survived in this era?

I don't know.

I mean, because the way that he played, you know, it was the slice and the game and, you know, keeping people out of sorts.

You can't really do that anymore.

But like you say, would Johnny Max survive today?

But would Rafa survived on grass in the 70s?

No, I don't.

You may say he would have adapted.

None of them would have survived against Johnny Mack back then.

No.

So there you go.

So it's like times for different.

You know, Johnny Mack adjusted that game.

That was his time.

Now the game's different, but.

Oh, over this period, since you've last been on the show, how old are you now?

I'm 31 now.

Okay, 31.

And tell me I'm jumping all over the place.

But do you feel when you come off to practice court now, the body feels good, you're like, okay, I survived today.

Is there a bit of that feeling?

Not really.

I mean, it's a funny one.

You know, last year it definitely was like that.

I mean, because last year I've come off the court and you know, that's the other thing.

I've probably torn my lower ability four or five times across my career as well.

So that's like a, like a wet paper towel at this point.

So, so that, you know, returning to match fitness was really difficult because if I stepped up the serve too much at once, then my ab would tear.

So, so there was a stage of that last year where it was like, is everything okay?

Let's see how we feel in the morning.

My wrists are feeling like they're falling off my abs, you know, Is that dons?

Is that the start of an ab tear?

Like, whereas now, you know, like I said, this is the best I've felt strong in a long time.

Yeah.

What lessons have you learned?

Like, if there's one thing you've learned over the past three or four years from the ups and downs, I think I might know what it is, but I'm going to let you say it first.

I'm just guessing, but what is the.

One thing I'm not sure you'll have to tell me.

Because to be honest, I feel exactly the same now as I did when I had a higher ranking.

I think that's one thing I had to learn over my career, is to separate myself and my self worth and my value as a person from my ranking.

Because when I was younger I found it really difficult.

You know, it would make me feel like I'm a bad person and I'm a failure because I'm not as highly ranked as I wanted to be.

And to be honest, in my heart of hearts, I still believe I, you know, I'm a better player than I was last year.

So in, in that sense that's probably, you know, why I'm still playing.

But the lessons I've learned, I would probably say I think one of the biggest ones for me that kind of led to my charge the top hundred would have been to learn to prioritize my game development over the results.

So win or lose, I think it's always a bad thing to be results orientated.

I found that worked well for me.

Obviously everyone's different.

As long as I came off the court able to say that's what's going to take me to the Next level.

Playing that way, then I was happy.

And that mentality really enabled me in.

In sticky situations and tight moments to really breathe and release and aim to play the right way.

That got me there eventually.

But how hard is it when you're tight in a match and you want to revert to type?

You're like, no, no, I got to stick with this, you know, with the vision.

And it must be so easy to pull back and do what you've always done, which, you know, won't get you to where you want to be.

So is that something you deal with in the middle of March, saying, no, Liam, you got to stick to the vision here?

Yeah.

To be honest with me, it was probably trial and error.

I wish I could have learned to do that a lot younger.

But by the time I got to 28 or 29, it was kind of, you know, I knew that that old way wasn't working, and it was never going to work.

I mean, I had Andy sit me down, you know, which was probably some of the best advice anyone ever gave me.

And he kind of said, look, you know, you're never gonna make it if you don't go for it, so why not risk it and see if you could go in for it?

And that.

And that kind of was like.

I was like, yeah, that's.

That's a really logical way of looking at.

That's a good point.

And that.

And that helped me a lot as well.

Yeah, you're playing it safe.

Yeah, exactly.

And that's the thing about the top players and top level tennis.

You know that they do play a lot of percentage tennis with their shot selections and their patterns, but they are going after the ball, and if there's a ball there to take on that, they take it on.

They all have ways to hurt you.

That's how you get to the top hundred.

You don't just get there by playing it safe and making the court.

You probably can get too close to it by playing it safe, and then you need the weapons and.

Yeah, well, I was.

I was.

I was 120, between 115 and 140 for five or six years.

Okay, so that's a long what.

That's a long time.

What keeps you going?

Like, obviously, you know, you're.

You're in that place which many players.

We're just speaking about some Irish players, Sam Barry, James McGee, Conor Knight, they all got to that ranking, and for whatever reason, injuries or they weren't prepared to stick it out a bit longer and see if they could break through but you're still there.

You broke through, and obviously you've gone the other way, but you're going back up now.

Why do you still play tennis?

A few reasons.

I believe I can break through again.

I think I can get higher than I did before.

I just need the opportunities, and it's difficult because obviously I'm probably going to have to play a year of futures now to be able to compete at the challenges.

I believe that if I could play at the challenges right now, I'd compete pretty well.

So that's one of the reasons, because I believe I've still got plenty left to give in the sport.

I think one of the big motivations for me is to show other players that it can be done, and there's a certain way that you should go about it and a certain work ethic and a philosophy that I want to have other younger players look at me and say, okay, that's how you're supposed to do it.

Because there were times when I was younger that there weren't many, should we say, positive influences in.

In British tennis that were.

You had a couple, you had a few.

Yeah.

I mean, obviously, Andy lived in Miami when I was younger, so, you know, the younger guys never really saw Andy, but a lot of the guys older than me tended to go out a lot, not take their tennis too seriously, and that was kind of what my role models were.

So I kind of had to learn to figure it out for myself.

Whereas a big thing that I tried to do is sort of show myself in a way that I would have wanted to see a player when I was younger.

Did you ever get sucked into that going out?

And was there part of your career where you did a bit too much of that?

Yeah, probably for five or six years.

Okay.

I think it was at the end of 2018 that I stopped sort of doing that and decided I needed to take my tennis a bit more seriously.

And, you know, that that's a great regret of mine that, you know, that could have been another four or five years that I was figuring my game out.

And, you know, I could have been.

Could have had the experience I have now at 26 or 27.

And obviously the experience I'm gonna have when I'm 35, I could have had now, which obviously would be a lot more helpful.

But, you know, everyone's different.

Like I said, I didn't have really many people saying, no, this isn't how you do this.

This isn't.

You know, you need to do this.

This will affect you poorly.

You Know, like, I was, I was still kind of from that era when sports.

Yeah.

And sports science was kind of starting to come in when I was younger, it kind of wasn't nutrition, kind of was.

Kind of wasn't.

And like, you say, like, I mean, that was just a thing people did.

Like, I remember there were players on tour that would be going out two or three times a week and getting absolutely hammered, whereas now that, that's not a thing.

People don't do that.

Yeah, you would have heard a lot.

Even on Futures Tour where they lose, they're straight out a night or two next week.

Lose, you're losing every week.

Like, so you're out once or twice every.

It's critty.

And then these things cost money as well.

So you're blowing money on.

You're not sleeping, chance of picking up injuries.

There's so much negative about it.

Yeah, exactly.

And one thing I learned about the drinking as well, which, again, I learned through experience rather than somebody telling me was, I remember I'd be doing a training block and I would go out on the Friday, obviously, I'd get back at 3, 4am and I've, I'd be recovering the Saturday and the Sunday, rather than from the trading block.

I'd be recovering from the night out.

And then it would take.

And then Monday, Tuesday, I would still be, you know, at practice, kind of like, I'm still a bit tired.

And then it would be sort of Thursday and I'd be like, okay, I feel like myself again now.

And then I'm.

I'm out again on Friday.

So it's like.

So after, so after a year of that, I was kind of like, I'm only really getting a day, a day of training a week in a sense, because I'm still recovering, even though I'm.

Yeah.

So I, I, I'm somebody who's learned from their own experiences, I guess, the hard way.

But you probably won't listen to anybody.

Well, it took a while.

Probably.

It took wise words from Andy and I'm not sure exactly.

Yeah, I listened.

I listened to the world number one.

Did he not tell you, Wimbledon champion?

Did he not tell you you should quit at some stage?

Did he not say.

Was that.

Was there some.

Never.

No, no.

I think in a joke.

No.

I don't know how I talk.

No, no, not even as a joke.

I mean, you know, he's, he's, you're completely right.

We do have that relationship.

And he, and he's always been, you know, very harsh with his, with his with his humor, but that's just who he is.

That's a very Scottish sense of humor as well, I think.

But, you know, he.

He always kind of had a belief in my game that I probably didn't see from other people.

I kind of felt like he could see that there was the potential to be top hundred.

I mean, he told me that I would get to 90 in the world probably two or three years before I did, which is a pretty good guess so far.

Yeah.

What else has he said now?

Do you still speak to him?

You still on the.

I speak to him a little bit.

I think he's a bit busy, isn't he, with his golf and his family life and.

And with Novak.

But I get the odd message sometimes laughing at my odd Instagram post and.

Nice, nice.

You're quite.

You're quite outspoken.

You say what you feel and do you feel more tennis players should be like that?

I know we talked about it earlier a little bit, but there's no personalities.

But do you think tennis players are afraid to say stuff like they're worried about sponsors?

What do people think and what's your opinion?

Yeah, I 100 think that.

I think that's the modern age of sportsmen and athletes.

Right.

You have to be sellable and, you know, having strong political opinions or philosophical, you know, ideas about things don't necessarily cater to a wider audience.

If you look at, you know, a Roger and a Rafa, they never put a toe out of line on any subject.

They did that so well across their career.

And, you know, lo and behold, they were probably the two most successful tennis players in history of the sport, financially as well as on the court.

Oh, I mean, you know, what Roger did off the court was incredible.

Whereas, you know, Novak, somebody who is perhaps spoken out a little bit more as has probably not had the same level of financial gain off the court as they have.

But then it gets.

It just gets stage where what, you know, you don't need all this.

Well, you know, when you get to their level of money, whether you've 100, 200 or a billion, I'm sure life is still good.

And does it really make a difference?

I don't.

I don't.

I know they're competitive people and they want.

They want to be the best.

They want more money as well.

But I'm sure it doesn't bother Novak.

Yeah, I agree with that.

But it's so tough, you know, as a tennis player, because you have to be aware every time you ever do an interview, anything you say could Be misconstrued.

It's such a poison chalice.

You know, you kind of have to find the balance of being your honest self without, you know, saying something that.

That can be taken the wrong way or, you know, even if you miss word a sentence and it comes up and, you know, so you have to be hyper aware at all times of.

Of what you're doing and what you're saying.

So I.

I do understand why it gets like that, but I do think it's sometimes to the detriment of the sport.

I think you look at Nick Kyrgios, you know, if.

If Nick wasn't the character he is, I don't think he'd be half as famous or draw half as many crowds as he does.

You know, it's Nick's above and beyond everything else.

It's Nick's personality that draws people in.

Yeah.

And look, some brands actually want that as well.

So, you know, they all don't want the clean person.

Some want somebody's a bit more.

I think now only his revenue from brand deals will tell us really what goes on there.

But no, and probably when this episode goes out, sinners coming back on court.

I know.

I don't think you're happy about Sinner, about the whole doping thing.

Do you think he should have got a.

Do you think he's innocent or guilty?

First of all.

It'S so difficult.

We have no way of knowing.

But the thing that, I mean, I actually got a phone call from another player to talk me through the facts around the case.

And because when I first saw the case, I thought, this is complete bogus.

Like, this makes no sense.

You know, if you.

If you use your logic and you look at this case, there are too many things that you say, would that happen in a normal situation like that?

That's the thing.

I understand how it works with the law and, you know, with lawyers and stuff.

I get that.

But as a normal person, you sit down, you look at it and you go, there's a few too many coincidences here.

And there are some similarities with other cases in the past when it's come out that the player was doping.

But having said that, I spoke to another player who was very well informed on the subject, and he kind of walked me through the different.

The rules, you know, the rule book, the laws around it, how basically the reason why he got found not guilty.

And I don't think that he was doing it.

I do think that it was a case of, you know, what's the word for it?

Accidental contamination.

Okay.

So, so I do think that that was the case.

The thing that really upset me the most was that there were players who I know, players who I'm friends with, who I respect as athletes and as, as people who got punished far beyond what Jannik ever has.

You know, one and a half, two years there was a player, a South American player who was on a, a temporary back ban.

The same thing again, a contamination.

So he, he got found innocent, but got a lengthier ban because he played a level of professional football in South America whilst he was supposed to be on the ban.

And I'm talking, you know, Sunday league football mess.

Yeah, you know, so there's players like this getting punished and, you know, again, Mikhail Imma got a year and a half ban.

There were no drugs in his system.

He got found to, to, you know, he missed his third test.

But let me tell you, that is so easy to do.

I saw Tenacity Coconakis talking about it last year.

I'm still on the doping whereabouts testing.

Now I'm ranked 700 in the world.

But last year I missed two.

I'd missed three tests, but the first one was from the year before.

Then one time, me and my girlfriend, because my brother does my, my whereabouts for me, my girlfriend had come back from a long trip and I said, oh, let's just go and get a nice hotel tonight.

Let's go for a nice evening.

And it was at 4 o'clock in the evening, so I forgot to tell my brother, lo and behold, the guy turns up that one day.

I mean, it's crazy how often it happens.

And then it would have been the third missed test.

And I thought, oh my God, I'm about to get banned for a year and a half for missing three tests.

But it turned out the first test was outside of the 12 months.

So trust me, it is so easy to miss three tests.

I'm sure many of our listeners don't know, but how does this whereabouts work?

Do you have to give like 12 months notice of your whereabouts?

Did you update it every week or every month or every day?

How exactly does it work?

In a minute?

Yeah, so you have to do it quarterly.

You have to update quarterly your whereabouts every day where you're going to be sleeping.

If you're going to be flying overnight, then you have to, you know, put something specifically in for that.

You have to put where you're going to be training, if you're going to be playing tournaments.

You have to say whether it's going to be a competition or training or if you've got a week off, you can change it, you know, like the day before, but you have to do every single day of the year an account for where you're going to be and then give a window that they can come and visit in that.

In that time.

So you can't be really ran, you know, you can't.

If you're most random person, you're sort of.

You're gonna get caught out, which a.

Lot of us are, of course.

You know, like, I mean, a lot of athletes tend to.

Tend to have a mild dose of adhd.

Yeah.

So it's.

It doesn't.

It doesn't do well to do that sort of stuff.

Could.

It could be a case.

Liam, we just got entry.

We got a wild card into, I don't know, into Monica, wherever, like, let's get in the plane.

And you forget to fill it out because there's so many other things going on and, well, so your.

Your brother looks after it.

You're completely right.

That's.

That's what's so difficult about it, is that the tennis player's schedule, as you have just said, it can change from hour to hour, never mind week to week or day to day.

I mean, sometimes you don't know where you're going until.

I mean, my girlfriend, classic case, she flew to a tournament on Monday but didn't know where she was going to play on the Sunday she was waiting to see what the cuts were.

So it is so difficult to do.

And that's what happened with Nikel.

It was his agent that was doing the whereabouts for him.

And they put that he was in the official hotel.

And sometimes these events have two official hotels and Mikel was in the second official hotel, not the first.

And that's how he got banned for a year and a half from the sport.

And he was 45 in the world.

So that's what really upsets me.

People like Mikel get punished for that.

But then, you know, and again, it's not.

It's not Janik.

But then how people then get a ban like that when they have substances in their system?

It just doesn't morally sit right with me.

I think one, the moral story is it helps when you have money you can pay the best liars to.

Exactly.

His liars were better than the other liars.

But that's what frustrates me as well, because philosophically speaking, that's what I love about the sport of tennis is that, you know, we're all equal.

You know, you can't.

It's not like football.

Janik can't go out and say, oh, I like Alcaraz's forehand.

I'm going to buy that for £25 million.

In tennis, if you're the best tennis player, you're the best tennis player.

And the money comes the cream.

I always say the cream always rises to the top in tennis.

The rankings never lie.

But that's why it's frustrating with this stuff, because whoever has the best lawyer gets the, gets the least ban, which just doesn't sit right with me.

And speaking of football, Pep Guardiola, you met him, do you have any advice for you?

Not particularly, no.

I mean, I quite.

We had quite a lengthy conversation, a 10 or 15 minute conversation, and I just liked, you know, picking his brain a little bit about, because I've obviously been obsessed with him for many years and, you know, I read a couple books about him and stuff and I was just really interested to get an insight into, like, mentality and obviously as a big city fan, getting insight into the squad at the time.

And, you know, I asked him if he liked tennis and, you know, it was interesting.

He said that he loves tennis.

He said he loves that tennis players in the tightest moments rise to the challenge.

Which I think he was maybe saying that it's not as often that that happens in football, which was, which was a funny thing to think because obviously I think sometimes we take it for granted how often we see, you know, sometimes the best tennis of the match at the tightest times.

You know, we all do it.

We'll switch on at 6 all in the third because we're all like, oh, you know, I want to see that.

Or, you know, six all, first set breaker, like you're five all.

Like, let's see that.

Whereas obviously in other sports sometimes the, the standard sort of regresses, whereas in tennis it improves.

So, yeah, it was cool to speak to.

Well, you can see how that happens.

Six all.

Both people are turned on.

So it takes the best of your opponent to bring out the best in you and you bring out the best of them.

And.

Yeah, and so any one bit of advice did you pick up from that we were sharing to tennis players?

He didn't, he didn't actually give me any advice personally, but, you know, he was, he was probably one of the nicest people I've ever spoken to.

And, you know, my biggest takeaway from that was that his gift to me was, was to give me 10 or 15 minutes of his time.

As, you know, I'm probably, I can't say I'm one of his biggest fans, but I'm definitely up there.

10 or 15 minutes of his time without, you know, he didn't.

He wasn't on his phone.

Just, you know, he turned me away from the cameras, had a really personal, private conversation with me.

And, yeah, that.

That was probably the best gift he could have given me.

Nice.

Tough year this year.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's been.

It's been a tough 12 months.

Yeah.

Like, did you give him some bad luck when you met him?

Yeah.

Yeah, maybe he gave it to me.

I don't know.

Yeah.

A couple more questions that.

So if you're 18 again, Liam, what's the one piece of advice you'd give yourself that you've learned in the past 14 years?

I.

I think I would try to put across.

If you make the sacrifices, even when you don't believe does make a difference in the long run, and it will make a difference.

Do you need people around you, though, that believe in you?

I don't know.

It's a tough one because I feel like there were many times across my career where I felt nobody believed in me.

I think for me, one thing I've noticed a lot that makes a big difference to players is having a strong foundation at home.

You know, we see it now all the time in the boxes of the WTA and ATP players.

They often have parents in the box.

Rafa Nadal had Uncle Tony.

I think that's a big one.

But, yeah, I think it took me a long time to.

It's almost like a leap of faith that I'm talking about that for a long time, I was ranked not where I wanted to be.

So I wasn't willing to make sacrifices, not go on that night out, not go and meet that friend, not, you know, change my diet, not play those tournaments because I wanted to be a normal kid.

Whereas, you know, once I kind of decided to at least try, that snowballed.

And I think.

And I think that's the big one was when I finally decided to stop going out.

I.

I kind of said, okay, let's.

Let's give it 12 months now, because I wasn't happy.

I wasn't happy doing that.

And.

And I knew that I was wasting my talent.

I kind of decided at the start of the year, I lost to Ivashka in Australian Open Qualys, and I lost, like, three in love.

I got absolutely trounced.

And I called my coach and I said, look, I don't even want to talk about the match.

I said, what I want to do is make a promise to you and to myself that for this next 12 months, I'm going to make every decision I possibly can to be the best player I can be.

And I said, I don't even want to worry about results for the next 12 months.

Let's see where my ranking is and then we can go from there.

And that kind of has just been the case ever since.

Good.

No, it's good advice.

The commitment.

And lastly.

So you like Ireland?

I love Ireland, yeah.

And you did mention you're gonna have to play a few futures this year.

You're gonna come over here and play the futures.

I'm not sure if the ass.

If the.

The legendary astro in Ireland would suit me too much.

But you know what I would love?

I would love to come to Ireland to playing event one day.

A bit of chip and charge in here.

This may be the only time you actually get to play it this year because you're back on the ATP next year, you know, so you.

I don't.

I can't see us having even a challenger here anytime soon.

So a bit of chipping and charge and I think you'd cause a bit of trouble.

Yeah, I think for me, I mean, that's the one place to test the commitment is Dublin.

I mean, the Guinness is.

The Guinness is too good.

I mean, you know, I went at the end of last year with my girlfriend.

I'm.

It was a shame we only got to go for a couple of days and we were both sick, but we absolutely fell in love with the city.

The people were amazing.

I love the energy about the place and I think it's a beautiful area as well with the river flowing through it.

I think we'll go back and try and spend more time there next time.

I mean, I didn't realize how expensive the taxis were there, though.

Everything's expensive here.

Never mind.

Just.

Jack Draper likes it over here as well.

He's had a few sessions with Simon Carr.

He was probably not allowed over this year because he's on his, you know, now.

He's a, you know, he's an idol.

He's an inspiration now, so.

But he seems to like it as well, so it's good to.

It's good to have.

And then Evans doing a bit of training over here, so.

Yeah, so.

So, I mean, pretty much all the Brits that go over love Dublin.

I think a lot of us would probably train there if there was a base for us.

Wait till the functional tennis base goes live.

I'll give you a base you can come train a mice.

There we go.

Couple indoor courts at a gym and we'll be set.

Yeah, that's it.

Win, win for everybody.

Yeah, but no, that's good.

So look, I hope to see you over here at some stage and if I see in a pub, I will have to drag you out though.

Let me finish my Guinness first though.

Thank you very much, Liam.

No, thank you, man, I appreciate it.