1 00:00:39,930 --> 00:00:44,430 Sonia Meza-Leon: Hey, Scarlett is we are back to talk about 2 00:00:44,430 --> 00:00:46,920 our next true crime episode. 3 00:00:47,250 --> 00:00:51,720 And I am so excited about this episode because this is about one 4 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:55,590 of my favorite, um, musicians. 5 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:55,980 And. 6 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:58,130 Uh, of all time. 7 00:00:58,460 --> 00:01:03,560 And I say that because I absolutely think that his music is fantastic. 8 00:01:03,950 --> 00:01:08,390 I, um, he's, you know, he has been a part of some very important, 9 00:01:08,450 --> 00:01:10,970 um, you know, music in the past. 10 00:01:11,180 --> 00:01:15,050 And he was really, in my opinion, what I, my note about this. 11 00:01:15,869 --> 00:01:19,589 Um, is that he was the funk, a tear innovator. 12 00:01:19,860 --> 00:01:22,770 And I know that there are other people who could probably get that as, 13 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:27,149 um, sort of recognition as well say Bootsy Collins, or are maybe prints. 14 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:31,440 But I think that Rick James was the forerunner in the. 15 00:01:33,229 --> 00:01:34,820 innovation department. 16 00:01:35,210 --> 00:01:39,080 Um, you know, he had some incredibly popular music in the past, so, but, uh, 17 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:44,360 Brittney, as we will talk about, he also had some, uh, some issues we will say. 18 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,860 And, um, he has some, um, you know, true crime in his past. 19 00:01:48,860 --> 00:01:54,949 He was convicted, uh, a couple of times of some serious crimes, in my opinion. 20 00:01:55,515 --> 00:02:00,735 I don't want us to, uh, gloss over nor, um, sort of dismiss. 21 00:02:00,735 --> 00:02:03,585 So we're going to chat a little bit about what the, about those crimes, 22 00:02:03,585 --> 00:02:06,555 but first we're going to talk a little bit about Rick James and his history, 23 00:02:06,555 --> 00:02:08,895 because I think the beginning of his life was really interesting and he 24 00:02:08,895 --> 00:02:10,365 knew a lot of interesting people. 25 00:02:10,365 --> 00:02:17,655 So, you know, without further ado, Rick James I E James Ambrose Johnson Jr. 26 00:02:17,655 --> 00:02:23,505 Was born February 1st, 1948, better known by his stage name. 27 00:02:25,260 --> 00:02:28,980 Rick James pretty. 28 00:02:28,980 --> 00:02:31,110 How do you know, how do you James? 29 00:02:31,110 --> 00:02:33,990 Cause I, well, I lived through the time when he was, his 30 00:02:33,990 --> 00:02:35,100 music was really important. 31 00:02:35,100 --> 00:02:36,450 So you probably heard it after. 32 00:02:37,050 --> 00:02:37,710 Brittney Sherman: Well, yes. 33 00:02:37,770 --> 00:02:42,090 So, uh, I know Rick James based off of. 34 00:02:42,915 --> 00:02:44,415 Really one song. 35 00:02:48,375 --> 00:02:49,365 Sonia Meza-Leon: Oh my gosh. 36 00:02:52,215 --> 00:02:55,155 Well, there's another song that you will probably remember that he did. 37 00:02:55,155 --> 00:02:59,325 And that was given to me, baby, which is another one to my favorite songs. 38 00:02:59,925 --> 00:03:00,225 I know, I 39 00:03:00,225 --> 00:03:02,565 Brittney Sherman: do know that one too, but I know him for. 40 00:03:04,170 --> 00:03:06,360 Uh, the four, the first one. 41 00:03:06,570 --> 00:03:08,670 Yeah, I know for a super freak. 42 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,270 Uh, and then I also know, and we'll talk about this later. 43 00:03:12,420 --> 00:03:18,060 We also know, or I also know him from Chappelle show and it's 44 00:03:18,060 --> 00:03:21,780 funny because I didn't even watch Chappelle show, but it was so iconic 45 00:03:21,780 --> 00:03:23,100 when he was featured on there. 46 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:28,290 And Dave Chappelle's apparently spot on characterization of him 47 00:03:28,710 --> 00:03:31,080 and his famous catch for AEs. 48 00:03:31,980 --> 00:03:32,130 I'm 49 00:03:32,130 --> 00:03:35,910 Sonia Meza-Leon: Rick James bitch, which, uh, I think it's consistent 50 00:03:36,180 --> 00:03:37,830 with him throughout his life. 51 00:03:37,860 --> 00:03:42,030 He, um, you know, is no longer living, but he, as I said, he was 52 00:03:42,030 --> 00:03:45,000 born in 1948 in Buffalo, New York. 53 00:03:45,330 --> 00:03:47,850 And he began his musical career pretty early. 54 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,660 Um, in his teenage years, he really felt like that he was, 55 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:53,100 um, you know, he had a gift. 56 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:54,720 He, and he did have a gift. 57 00:03:54,810 --> 00:03:55,470 Brittney Sherman: That's true. 58 00:03:55,500 --> 00:04:00,960 But before he started and before he got into music, He's ventures into criminal 59 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,210 life started as early as age nine. 60 00:04:04,125 --> 00:04:04,665 Sonia Meza-Leon: Yes. 61 00:04:04,695 --> 00:04:08,715 And a lot of that was because his mother was a numbers runner 62 00:04:08,715 --> 00:04:10,815 actually for the mob in New York. 63 00:04:11,235 --> 00:04:13,995 So he witnessed a lot of different things. 64 00:04:14,325 --> 00:04:18,735 Um, and you know, this was, I mean, Hey, I, I get to give it to her. 65 00:04:18,735 --> 00:04:21,495 You know, she's raising kids, she's going to do whatever she needs to do. 66 00:04:21,495 --> 00:04:24,975 But for him, this, this model, his, his life a bit, and 67 00:04:24,975 --> 00:04:26,325 certainly set him on a path. 68 00:04:26,385 --> 00:04:28,185 Now, I think he spent a lot of his time. 69 00:04:28,780 --> 00:04:31,780 You know, a lot of his life, you know, not committing criminal acts. 70 00:04:31,780 --> 00:04:34,510 Certainly he did some important things, but, you know, I think 71 00:04:34,510 --> 00:04:38,020 that he may have made some choices throughout his life that, um, were 72 00:04:38,020 --> 00:04:40,300 affected by that early modeling. 73 00:04:40,390 --> 00:04:43,030 Not to, not to be all proper about it, but, you know, he saw 74 00:04:43,030 --> 00:04:46,570 some things happening and he was like, ah, you know, his, his moral 75 00:04:46,570 --> 00:04:47,980 character may have been in question. 76 00:04:48,010 --> 00:04:49,510 Let's just say, well, 77 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:49,930 Brittney Sherman: sure. 78 00:04:50,860 --> 00:04:55,090 But I have to say, I was surprised how much he was. 79 00:04:56,555 --> 00:05:00,335 Uh, how, how many criminal acts he really was involved in? 80 00:05:00,335 --> 00:05:02,105 I didn't know much about them. 81 00:05:02,105 --> 00:05:05,525 I knew a lot about the drugs, but I know about the criminal acts, uh, because yeah, 82 00:05:05,575 --> 00:05:10,595 so not only was his mother involved in running the numbers, uh, which if you're 83 00:05:10,595 --> 00:05:12,275 not familiar with that, look it up. 84 00:05:12,305 --> 00:05:15,125 It's kind of like a type of illegal lottery. 85 00:05:15,155 --> 00:05:17,165 It's really kind of fascinating to read about. 86 00:05:17,435 --> 00:05:19,175 Uh, but he was part of that. 87 00:05:19,700 --> 00:05:20,330 They're out. 88 00:05:20,450 --> 00:05:22,130 And he was only nine years old at the time. 89 00:05:22,159 --> 00:05:25,099 So that's very early, uh, age. 90 00:05:25,099 --> 00:05:29,330 Of course, can't say that he really had any control over that. 91 00:05:29,479 --> 00:05:34,130 His mom was doing that as opposed to working a and working another job, doing 92 00:05:34,130 --> 00:05:38,300 what she could to make ends meet because his father was no longer in the picture. 93 00:05:38,599 --> 00:05:40,460 Uh, his father left. 94 00:05:40,849 --> 00:05:41,570 Sonia Meza-Leon: Uh, but 95 00:05:42,590 --> 00:05:44,940 Brittney Sherman: with, with his mother, he, she, she. 96 00:05:45,765 --> 00:05:47,565 Well, she was trying to do the best that she could. 97 00:05:47,745 --> 00:05:54,135 She also sent him to a private Catholic school and he attended elementary school 98 00:05:54,135 --> 00:05:56,115 at a private school and was expecting. 99 00:05:56,685 --> 00:05:58,155 Several times. 100 00:05:58,575 --> 00:06:01,455 I don't know how you get expelled several times from one school, because I've always 101 00:06:01,455 --> 00:06:05,895 thought once you get expelled, it means you're you're out out, but he was expelled 102 00:06:06,075 --> 00:06:11,145 at least three times from the same Catholic school for causing trouble, uh, 103 00:06:11,175 --> 00:06:20,265 not criminal per se, but he showed early signs of not being the most stand up. 104 00:06:20,295 --> 00:06:24,915 And, uh, the best kid that may preview what. 105 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:27,840 Later do, uh, an 106 00:06:27,840 --> 00:06:28,290 Sonia Meza-Leon: adulthood. 107 00:06:28,530 --> 00:06:33,480 So as we said, you know, he was in various bands, you know, he hung out early on, 108 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,290 I think with Neil young and they were in a band together for quite a while. 109 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:43,260 He actually went to Canada in 1964, um, because he did not want to be drafted. 110 00:06:43,590 --> 00:06:48,690 And unfortunately, um, he formed, well, not unfortunately, but he, he 111 00:06:48,690 --> 00:06:51,090 formed a band in Canada apparently. 112 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,870 Um, the minor burrs, which I think is a really interesting name, but that was so. 113 00:06:56,035 --> 00:06:56,745 Brittney Sherman: He keep in mind though. 114 00:06:56,745 --> 00:07:02,475 He went to Canada because he actually enlisted when he was 16 years old 115 00:07:03,015 --> 00:07:04,665 in the United States military. 116 00:07:05,175 --> 00:07:08,865 And he enlisted as a reservist and he. 117 00:07:10,185 --> 00:07:15,375 Fled to Canada when the United States, uh, went to Vietnam and the 118 00:07:15,375 --> 00:07:19,725 Vietnam war broke out and he D he didn't want to be sent into war. 119 00:07:19,785 --> 00:07:24,585 So he officially went AWOL by fleeting to Canada, which is of 120 00:07:24,585 --> 00:07:27,435 course a felony in military court. 121 00:07:27,825 --> 00:07:31,745 And so he was a fugitive on the run when he started his musical. 122 00:07:32,925 --> 00:07:34,604 Sonia Meza-Leon: Ah, okay. 123 00:07:34,604 --> 00:07:35,025 Got it. 124 00:07:35,025 --> 00:07:35,825 So, yeah. 125 00:07:35,854 --> 00:07:36,645 Was he avoiding? 126 00:07:36,675 --> 00:07:40,245 Oh, so he was avoiding being sent, but he was already, he wouldn't be dressed. 127 00:07:40,275 --> 00:07:41,565 Oh, he was a reservist. 128 00:07:41,565 --> 00:07:43,544 So he could be drafted into the full-time military. 129 00:07:44,325 --> 00:07:45,224 Exactly. 130 00:07:45,765 --> 00:07:46,094 Okay. 131 00:07:46,245 --> 00:07:46,905 Brittney Sherman: Yeah. 132 00:07:46,905 --> 00:07:51,104 So he essentially signed up to be a reservist, so that way he wouldn't be 133 00:07:51,104 --> 00:07:58,544 drafted ultimately, but once the Vietnam war picked up, he could be moved up from 134 00:07:58,544 --> 00:08:00,794 being a reservist to full-time like. 135 00:08:01,890 --> 00:08:02,430 Sonia Meza-Leon: Got it. 136 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:09,450 So again, as we said, he formed the band, the Mynah birds, and they got a recording 137 00:08:09,450 --> 00:08:11,550 deal with Motown records in 1966. 138 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,100 Um, that means that he was 22 years old. 139 00:08:14,460 --> 00:08:18,180 And as you said, Brittany, his career had to be halted a bit because he had 140 00:08:18,180 --> 00:08:24,360 to go deal with his one-year prison term that he received for the draft charges. 141 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:25,110 So. 142 00:08:25,659 --> 00:08:29,890 After he was released, he left New York and then he moved to California where 143 00:08:29,890 --> 00:08:35,740 he, he really ultimately started, uh, a rock and a funk group, uh, or multiple 144 00:08:35,740 --> 00:08:37,450 groups in the sixties and seventies. 145 00:08:37,450 --> 00:08:40,870 So he, this was where he really formed, you know, what we know to 146 00:08:40,870 --> 00:08:44,110 be Rick James before he really was. 147 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,960 And he started the band stone city band. 148 00:08:47,944 --> 00:08:48,814 Before he did that. 149 00:08:48,814 --> 00:08:50,344 He was really a rock and roll guy. 150 00:08:50,495 --> 00:08:52,025 He actually wasn't like a funk guy. 151 00:08:52,055 --> 00:08:53,285 He wasn't an R and B guy. 152 00:08:53,285 --> 00:08:55,745 He was really, you know, truly rock and roll. 153 00:08:56,015 --> 00:09:00,694 So when he started the stone city band, they, you know, I think they really 154 00:09:00,694 --> 00:09:04,805 found their stride and, and they, the release the album come and get. 155 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:11,190 That had, um, that was in 1978 and had hits on it like you and I and Mary 156 00:09:11,190 --> 00:09:17,070 Jane and Mary Jane of course, was about marijuana and anybody who says that 157 00:09:17,070 --> 00:09:21,120 they didn't realize that that song wasn't about marijuana is bananas. 158 00:09:21,150 --> 00:09:23,730 I think some of the records labels, well, the record labels are like, 159 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:24,900 oh, well we didn't even know. 160 00:09:24,900 --> 00:09:25,950 We thought he was talking about a lady. 161 00:09:25,950 --> 00:09:28,320 I'm like, no, come on. 162 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:29,580 Yes. 163 00:09:29,610 --> 00:09:36,569 Because Rick James was really, really, um, Outward about his marijuana use. 164 00:09:36,810 --> 00:09:41,430 He has giant, like we know joints on the stage next to him. 165 00:09:41,670 --> 00:09:44,729 There were times where he was threatened to be, um, you know, 166 00:09:44,969 --> 00:09:49,380 essentially arrested because he had pot on stage and wouldn't stop smoking. 167 00:09:49,380 --> 00:09:51,540 And, you know, he was encouraged as council 168 00:09:51,540 --> 00:09:51,989 Brittney Sherman: goers to 169 00:09:51,989 --> 00:09:52,439 Sonia Meza-Leon: join him. 170 00:09:52,439 --> 00:09:53,130 Yeah. 171 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:57,510 And I was just watching Brittany, the, uh, I got my information from a variety of. 172 00:09:58,079 --> 00:10:02,699 And some of which I think that we're meant to be comedic, but I still, there 173 00:10:02,699 --> 00:10:05,910 were real interviews with Rick James and whether he was kidding or not, I think 174 00:10:05,910 --> 00:10:08,160 it gave some insight into his personal. 175 00:10:09,300 --> 00:10:13,050 This one I was just watching was about, uh, was the Charlie 176 00:10:13,050 --> 00:10:14,670 Murphy, Dave Chappelle thing. 177 00:10:14,940 --> 00:10:19,560 Um, it was, you know, I mean, really funny, but so, you know, some of these 178 00:10:19,560 --> 00:10:23,430 things that seem too weird to be true, I think were actually true because 179 00:10:23,430 --> 00:10:26,430 when you're working at that level, I mean, he was friends with Eddie Murphy. 180 00:10:26,430 --> 00:10:27,570 He was friends with Stevie wonder. 181 00:10:27,570 --> 00:10:30,450 I think Stevie wonder was the one who told him to call himself Rick James. 182 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,440 And, um, you know, he was cause I think he was going by Ricky before that. 183 00:10:34,959 --> 00:10:38,290 Something and, and yeah, and I think Stevie wonder was right. 184 00:10:38,319 --> 00:10:42,400 You know, he, Rick James spent a lot of time with a lot of important people. 185 00:10:42,609 --> 00:10:50,079 He, um, you know, he, he, I mean, he was a very, very famous man. 186 00:10:50,079 --> 00:10:52,540 And if you watch any of the interviews with him, he knew it. 187 00:10:52,540 --> 00:10:55,569 I mean, you know, he really expected everybody to know who he was. 188 00:10:55,569 --> 00:10:56,260 He had a little. 189 00:10:56,785 --> 00:10:58,495 Stage presence, we'll call it. 190 00:10:58,765 --> 00:11:01,585 And, um, you know, he hung with some very famous people. 191 00:11:01,795 --> 00:11:04,375 He dated Linda Blair for a couple of years, which I think 192 00:11:04,375 --> 00:11:07,645 is a really interesting, weird, I thought that tote, I thought 193 00:11:07,645 --> 00:11:08,905 Brittney Sherman: that too, and yeah. 194 00:11:10,005 --> 00:11:12,585 She actually got pregnant by his child. 195 00:11:12,615 --> 00:11:13,365 Sonia Meza-Leon: Yeah. 196 00:11:13,395 --> 00:11:16,755 Which he was really sad about because she did not have that child. 197 00:11:16,755 --> 00:11:19,455 And so he was really sad that he didn't know at the time. 198 00:11:19,755 --> 00:11:21,855 Um, but they were together for a year or two. 199 00:11:21,855 --> 00:11:23,265 So that's a stage of time. 200 00:11:23,295 --> 00:11:24,585 It wasn't in passing. 201 00:11:24,885 --> 00:11:27,135 No, but you know, this was him. 202 00:11:27,555 --> 00:11:31,725 I mean, if you w another source that I took a lot of information from, and 203 00:11:31,725 --> 00:11:33,645 I thought was really insightful and. 204 00:11:34,710 --> 00:11:37,650 Thoughtful actually was tales from the tour bus. 205 00:11:37,710 --> 00:11:44,400 The Mike judge show where he takes audio, um, and some live action interviews and 206 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:49,500 he animated, he puts it to animation and it is so good because it is it's good. 207 00:11:49,530 --> 00:11:50,340 It's so good. 208 00:11:50,370 --> 00:11:54,390 I mean, There are a lot of episodes about country singers and things like that. 209 00:11:54,390 --> 00:11:58,140 But there's the second season is where he gets into more R and B 210 00:11:58,140 --> 00:11:59,580 and funk and broadens it a bit. 211 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:04,710 And he does a two-parter episode about Rick James and a large part of the second. 212 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,830 You know, the second part is about Rick James and his. 213 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:10,800 Contentious relationship with prince. 214 00:12:11,250 --> 00:12:15,120 So I want to talk about that a bit because I, I know you have prints. 215 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,860 So I know, I know there was a time remember where, you know, Rick James was 216 00:12:19,860 --> 00:12:23,310 on the top of the world and he, before, 217 00:12:23,310 --> 00:12:26,130 Brittney Sherman: before we get into prince, I think, I think we're jumping 218 00:12:26,130 --> 00:12:35,370 over a few things that, um, are maybe indicative of his, his criminal past. 219 00:12:36,450 --> 00:12:37,320 Sonia Meza-Leon: Oh, sure. 220 00:12:37,350 --> 00:12:42,810 Well, I mean, through this entire situation, through this, his entire 221 00:12:42,810 --> 00:12:44,790 life, we know that he did a lot of drugs. 222 00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:46,200 So if that's what you're referring to, 223 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,780 Brittney Sherman: but that's not what I'm referring to. 224 00:12:49,500 --> 00:12:49,890 Sonia Meza-Leon: I'm referring to. 225 00:12:49,890 --> 00:12:52,350 I think that consistently we can all agree. 226 00:12:52,350 --> 00:12:55,020 And Rick James will be the first to tell us that he did 227 00:12:55,020 --> 00:12:56,310 a lot of drugs throughout his. 228 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:01,010 Um, cocaine is a powerful drug and marijuana is awesome. 229 00:13:01,010 --> 00:13:02,810 And I wouldn't be surprised if he smoked pot a lot just to 230 00:13:02,810 --> 00:13:06,140 kind of regulate himself, but he did a lot of, lot of drugs. 231 00:13:06,140 --> 00:13:06,710 He was on drugs. 232 00:13:07,830 --> 00:13:12,090 Brittney Sherman: Drugs is like, in my opinion, so minor in comparison, 233 00:13:12,420 --> 00:13:17,430 uh, because yeah, he, uh, I mean, just to just touch on it at one point, 234 00:13:17,430 --> 00:13:21,690 he said he was, he spent like $7,000 a week for five years on cocaine. 235 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:27,900 And, uh, his tour bus was like a cloud of marijuana smoke all the time. 236 00:13:28,260 --> 00:13:33,675 Uh, but regardless of that, part of it, he, uh, You mentioned, which is 237 00:13:33,675 --> 00:13:40,334 so totally true, how he is such a, you know, he, he knew his fame, he 238 00:13:40,334 --> 00:13:43,035 thought a lot of himself, he kind of, he felt like he was on top of the world. 239 00:13:43,064 --> 00:13:47,265 And to a certain extent, he really was like, he was the, he was the 240 00:13:47,265 --> 00:13:50,564 king of funk at, you know, in the late seventies, early eighties. 241 00:13:50,564 --> 00:13:50,865 Yes. 242 00:13:50,865 --> 00:13:53,175 He was the pioneer for all of this. 243 00:13:53,324 --> 00:13:55,574 And he had some really powerful and influential friends. 244 00:13:55,785 --> 00:13:59,204 But to your point previously about Stevie, wonder how he. 245 00:13:59,815 --> 00:14:00,025 Yeah. 246 00:14:00,045 --> 00:14:02,755 He's the one that essentially told him to call himself Rick James. 247 00:14:02,935 --> 00:14:09,085 He went through a few different names before he settled on Rick James, because 248 00:14:09,115 --> 00:14:16,945 he first was convicted of being a draft Dodger for going AWOL in the military. 249 00:14:17,065 --> 00:14:19,255 And he spent a year in military prison. 250 00:14:19,675 --> 00:14:26,245 Then he was arrested again for a second military charge, but was 251 00:14:26,245 --> 00:14:28,765 able to get, uh, essentially. 252 00:14:29,505 --> 00:14:31,965 Get off on that charge because he knew someone in it. 253 00:14:32,175 --> 00:14:36,555 And at the time before he even moved to Los Angeles, he was trying to 254 00:14:36,555 --> 00:14:41,475 go to Motown and Motown was very interested in him, but because of his 255 00:14:41,475 --> 00:14:46,485 past with the military and the stuff that he got into as a kid, Montan 256 00:14:46,485 --> 00:14:47,835 didn't want anything to do with him. 257 00:14:47,835 --> 00:14:51,255 So he actually changed his name two or three times before 258 00:14:51,255 --> 00:14:52,575 he settled on Rick James. 259 00:14:52,605 --> 00:14:57,675 So even though he was very confident and powerful and he knew he was so famous. 260 00:14:58,395 --> 00:15:02,355 There was, I still think this other side to him that he was, he was 261 00:15:02,355 --> 00:15:04,745 constantly running from his past because. 262 00:15:05,610 --> 00:15:07,110 Of all the things that he left 263 00:15:07,140 --> 00:15:07,800 Sonia Meza-Leon: in his wake. 264 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,530 Well sort of, I mean, I think that there's a point where it 265 00:15:10,530 --> 00:15:13,290 didn't matter what happened in his past because he was Rick James. 266 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,170 I mean, once you got to that point, definitely. 267 00:15:16,170 --> 00:15:18,750 I mean, and that it got to that point rather quickly. 268 00:15:18,780 --> 00:15:20,610 I mean, Rick James was pretty much. 269 00:15:21,089 --> 00:15:22,469 Pretty quick in his life. 270 00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:26,670 You know, he, he was, um, he achieved fame at a young age, you know, he, 271 00:15:26,670 --> 00:15:31,380 again, he was a musician, he was in bands when he was a teenager. 272 00:15:31,380 --> 00:15:33,449 So he knew this area very well. 273 00:15:33,540 --> 00:15:37,170 He signed with Motown and at the age of 22. 274 00:15:37,469 --> 00:15:39,000 So yeah, that's super young. 275 00:15:39,030 --> 00:15:39,239 Yeah. 276 00:15:39,270 --> 00:15:40,380 He was already there. 277 00:15:40,380 --> 00:15:44,520 Like he went from zero to 60 and I, and that is a tough one for someone 278 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,400 who's doing drugs because it's awfully hard for you to regulate when. 279 00:15:48,425 --> 00:15:52,205 Events like significant events happening in your life, but even if 280 00:15:52,205 --> 00:15:57,425 you're the vents in your life or, you know, good, positive or negative 281 00:15:57,425 --> 00:16:02,075 traumatic events are really, um, hard for people who have drug addictions, 282 00:16:02,285 --> 00:16:06,575 um, they're triggers, you know, so even the best situations can trigger a 283 00:16:06,575 --> 00:16:08,885 drug addict into, you know, a spiral. 284 00:16:09,245 --> 00:16:10,295 But, um, yeah, he. 285 00:16:11,030 --> 00:16:13,459 He definitely realized. 286 00:16:13,459 --> 00:16:16,819 And he definitely understood that he had to make some changes and to get around 287 00:16:16,819 --> 00:16:18,199 things, to get where he wanted to go. 288 00:16:18,199 --> 00:16:21,709 But he always was, you know, I think that he was dead set, that he was 289 00:16:21,709 --> 00:16:24,800 going to be famous and successful in his life, no matter what he had to 290 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:24,949 Brittney Sherman: do. 291 00:16:25,670 --> 00:16:27,050 I think that's probably true. 292 00:16:27,290 --> 00:16:31,160 And, uh, one of the things that, uh, I don't know if you plan on 293 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,819 coming back to it or not, but that you mentioned to me and I, I looked 294 00:16:34,819 --> 00:16:39,709 up a little bit, was his loose connection with the Manson family also. 295 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:42,150 Sonia Meza-Leon: Well, it wasn't the Manson family. 296 00:16:42,150 --> 00:16:46,199 He had a connection with, it was the, uh, Sharon Tate family because 297 00:16:46,199 --> 00:16:50,339 he reached, James was friends with Jay Sebring and Rick James 298 00:16:50,339 --> 00:16:52,410 was supposed to be at the house. 299 00:16:52,439 --> 00:16:55,860 He was supposed to be at the Sharon Tate home with JC bring 300 00:16:55,890 --> 00:16:57,479 the night of the Manson murders. 301 00:16:57,689 --> 00:16:59,550 But, uh, apparently he got scared. 302 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,990 Um, shockingly, he did some drugs and whatever happened and he 303 00:17:03,990 --> 00:17:05,490 didn't, he was too messed up to go. 304 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:05,790 Yeah. 305 00:17:05,819 --> 00:17:09,690 Which it sounds like that that happened on, um, pretty frequently, you know, 306 00:17:09,690 --> 00:17:12,569 but again, you've got these really powerful people, as we know, in 307 00:17:12,569 --> 00:17:17,860 Hollywood and in music and whatever, and they just there's no, um, They're 308 00:17:17,860 --> 00:17:20,650 not held to the same standard that the rest of us are because of this one. 309 00:17:20,650 --> 00:17:21,579 I've been a regular person. 310 00:17:21,579 --> 00:17:22,839 They would have kicked him to the curb. 311 00:17:23,230 --> 00:17:25,360 Um, you know, and his friends, I think kept him safe too. 312 00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:27,910 He was very good friends with Eddie Murphy. 313 00:17:28,210 --> 00:17:29,620 He, again, smokey Robinson. 314 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,240 He, uh, he was the one. 315 00:17:33,300 --> 00:17:37,830 So I want to go back because I want to talk a little bit about the Rick 316 00:17:37,830 --> 00:17:40,860 James and sort of his progression. 317 00:17:41,129 --> 00:17:44,730 And I think that's where we go back and talk about prince, because there was a 318 00:17:44,730 --> 00:17:50,190 time where Rick James was on tour, very popular and prince was just coming out. 319 00:17:50,190 --> 00:17:53,940 And so this would have been around the, this would have been in the seventies and. 320 00:17:54,475 --> 00:17:59,095 You know, Rick James really saw himself as, as an iconic figure and 321 00:17:59,415 --> 00:18:04,105 an actual, he really saw himself as an important African-American figure. 322 00:18:04,315 --> 00:18:07,735 And he really thought it was important that he get, you know, 323 00:18:07,735 --> 00:18:09,235 sort of the credit for that. 324 00:18:09,745 --> 00:18:15,625 He, he had somehow or another had seen, um, prince and he asked prince 325 00:18:15,655 --> 00:18:19,705 and he asked another, I think, another band to come on tour with him. 326 00:18:21,209 --> 00:18:25,830 And I think maybe it was, uh, the other band that was on tour with, I forget 327 00:18:25,830 --> 00:18:28,169 who it was, but it was somebody else that he had to come on tour with him. 328 00:18:28,409 --> 00:18:30,209 Um, shoot. 329 00:18:31,065 --> 00:18:32,115 Not Sheely. 330 00:18:32,145 --> 00:18:34,245 We'll figure that one out later, Rick James asked prince 331 00:18:34,245 --> 00:18:35,175 to go on tour with them. 332 00:18:35,415 --> 00:18:40,395 Um, you know, all that's fantastic for prince because he gets all this exposure 333 00:18:40,665 --> 00:18:44,685 and, um, he, you know, of course kills it because he's prince now, Rick James 334 00:18:44,685 --> 00:18:48,465 starts getting, uh, jealous of prince and starts and re you gotta remember, 335 00:18:48,495 --> 00:18:50,264 let's step back for a second here. 336 00:18:50,565 --> 00:18:55,935 Um, the Rick James band, the stone city band, this was a band. 337 00:18:57,195 --> 00:18:59,084 Five or six, I don't recall. 338 00:18:59,385 --> 00:19:05,355 Six foot tall or over black men with giant braids. 339 00:19:05,564 --> 00:19:07,905 And he asked his band to wear those braids. 340 00:19:07,905 --> 00:19:10,334 And they finally agreed because he said that he wanted them 341 00:19:10,334 --> 00:19:11,895 all to look like warriors. 342 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,680 You know, I think that it's important to understand that he realized pretty 343 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:22,440 early on that his performance and the way he looked and the way he conveyed 344 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:26,700 himself was important for him as, as an African-American African-American men. 345 00:19:26,910 --> 00:19:29,820 And it was a powerful statement that he was trying to make. 346 00:19:29,940 --> 00:19:33,720 He wanted some recognition, you know, he wanted to be respected and I 347 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:35,670 think he was respected for his music. 348 00:19:35,670 --> 00:19:37,740 Certainly he did some, some really great things. 349 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,020 So again, prince goes on tour with him. 350 00:19:40,970 --> 00:19:44,750 Then prince and Rick James start getting into this competition. 351 00:19:44,899 --> 00:19:49,010 You know, they, again, Rick James feels threatened by this. 352 00:19:49,070 --> 00:19:52,399 So prince prince in my opinion is fantastic. 353 00:19:52,399 --> 00:19:57,050 And I, and I'm sorry, Rick James, but I feel like prince is far more, you 354 00:19:57,050 --> 00:20:03,169 know, uh, you know, talented, let's just say his body of work as much better. 355 00:20:03,169 --> 00:20:06,169 And it's probably because he was not as focused on these other 356 00:20:06,230 --> 00:20:07,310 distractions of Rick James. 357 00:20:08,250 --> 00:20:08,490 Right. 358 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:13,379 So prince started a side band with his friend Morris day called the time. 359 00:20:13,860 --> 00:20:18,660 And then so did Rick James, Rick started a side band to compete with them, but 360 00:20:18,660 --> 00:20:22,440 his side band was called like the do rags or something, which is that's 361 00:20:22,450 --> 00:20:25,290 exactly what it was name horrible. 362 00:20:25,500 --> 00:20:28,350 And then prince started a girl's band, which was vanity six. 363 00:20:28,410 --> 00:20:31,770 So in turn, Rick James starts a girl's band called the Mary 364 00:20:31,770 --> 00:20:33,240 Jane girls and the Mary Jane. 365 00:20:34,415 --> 00:20:35,465 They were successful. 366 00:20:35,675 --> 00:20:37,205 Um, that was Joanne. 367 00:20:37,205 --> 00:20:39,605 I don't recall her last name, but I thought I really 368 00:20:39,605 --> 00:20:40,475 liked the Mary Jane girls. 369 00:20:40,475 --> 00:20:41,645 I liked a couple of their songs. 370 00:20:41,645 --> 00:20:42,784 I thought they were kind of awesome. 371 00:20:42,965 --> 00:20:46,715 That was very popular, like the Miami club scene and like the early 372 00:20:46,715 --> 00:20:50,855 nineties, um, you know, the Mary Jane girls and the Tina Marie was 373 00:20:50,855 --> 00:20:53,764 also a big supporter of Rick James. 374 00:20:53,794 --> 00:20:56,615 And he wrote songs where he wrote multiple songs for her. 375 00:20:56,855 --> 00:21:00,485 He wrote a couple of songs for the temptations and then also smokey room. 376 00:21:01,544 --> 00:21:05,415 So, you know, he, he could do good things when he put his mind to it. 377 00:21:05,834 --> 00:21:10,875 The part that I thought was really interesting was, and you know, for a 378 00:21:10,875 --> 00:21:14,804 lot of reasons was his relationship with Eddie Murphy, because as you can, if I 379 00:21:14,804 --> 00:21:19,425 would highly suggest watching the Charlie Murphy tales from the, you know, whatever. 380 00:21:20,879 --> 00:21:23,730 Brittney Sherman: Each or Hollywood story on Chappelle's show. 381 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:24,810 Sonia Meza-Leon: It's fantastic. 382 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:26,040 Good. 383 00:21:26,430 --> 00:21:30,870 Because I feel like that that's the re a realistic view of what Eddie Murphy's 384 00:21:30,870 --> 00:21:35,850 relationship with, with Rick James was, you know, and Rick James went so far 385 00:21:35,850 --> 00:21:39,990 as to write and produce that God awful song that Eddie Murphy, um, actually 386 00:21:39,990 --> 00:21:44,070 performed party all the time, which we, if you remember this song, if you 387 00:21:44,070 --> 00:21:45,629 don't remember the song, look it up. 388 00:21:45,629 --> 00:21:46,230 It's amazing. 389 00:21:46,230 --> 00:21:47,700 Rick James is in the video. 390 00:21:47,700 --> 00:21:48,030 It is. 391 00:21:48,090 --> 00:21:48,450 I watched 392 00:21:48,450 --> 00:21:49,379 Brittney Sherman: the video last night. 393 00:21:49,409 --> 00:21:49,740 Sonia Meza-Leon: God. 394 00:21:50,330 --> 00:21:50,750 Awful. 395 00:21:50,750 --> 00:21:52,670 Like I so bad. 396 00:21:52,670 --> 00:21:54,470 And my God, the song has got awful. 397 00:21:54,470 --> 00:21:57,470 I don't care about the video, but no, I know the songs terrible. 398 00:21:57,470 --> 00:21:58,220 Eddie Murphy. 399 00:21:58,490 --> 00:21:59,510 I love Eddie Murphy. 400 00:21:59,510 --> 00:22:03,830 I think he's incredibly funny, but man, he needs to not, not foray 401 00:22:03,830 --> 00:22:06,530 into a musical, whatever it's 402 00:22:07,820 --> 00:22:11,750 Brittney Sherman: party all the time was Rick James is attempt 403 00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:13,970 to have a party song in recent. 404 00:22:14,745 --> 00:22:17,295 So prince is party like it's 1999. 405 00:22:17,325 --> 00:22:18,435 Sonia Meza-Leon: Yes, absolutely. 406 00:22:18,465 --> 00:22:21,524 Everything that, that, you know, Rick James was doing after he 407 00:22:21,524 --> 00:22:22,905 met prince was in response to. 408 00:22:23,865 --> 00:22:24,615 And it's success. 409 00:22:24,795 --> 00:22:28,155 The other thing that you have to remember about prince and also Michael 410 00:22:28,155 --> 00:22:29,895 Jackson and Rick James was the Vic. 411 00:22:29,895 --> 00:22:33,675 James was really offended this right around the time where at T V came out 412 00:22:34,034 --> 00:22:40,034 and, um, you know, they re MTV, wouldn't play Rick James, his videos and Ray MTV 413 00:22:40,034 --> 00:22:41,325 will say, well, they were too vulgar. 414 00:22:41,325 --> 00:22:42,075 They were offensive. 415 00:22:42,075 --> 00:22:45,225 And some might say that they were, but they would play prince and 416 00:22:45,225 --> 00:22:46,784 they would play Michael Jackson. 417 00:22:46,915 --> 00:22:49,095 Now it's hard not to play prince and Michael Jackson because 418 00:22:49,095 --> 00:22:50,115 they're so freaking popular. 419 00:22:50,580 --> 00:22:54,300 But the other thing is that prince had a movie prince had purple rain. 420 00:22:54,450 --> 00:22:57,899 People wanted to see prince, and I love that movie and I didn't 421 00:22:57,899 --> 00:22:59,129 find that movie offensive at all. 422 00:22:59,129 --> 00:23:02,010 I mean, I, I, I'm not saying prince is a good day. 423 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,710 You know, and under the, under the cherry moon was another booth, but I don't care 424 00:23:07,710 --> 00:23:09,300 because I really like watching prince. 425 00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:11,790 So there was something about his personality and I always felt that 426 00:23:11,790 --> 00:23:14,160 there was an innocence to prince and I always thought there was, 427 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,620 um, I don't ever feel like that. 428 00:23:16,620 --> 00:23:20,790 He was a person who, in my opinion, sort of promoted violence and. 429 00:23:21,419 --> 00:23:25,320 Honestly, I'd love that he was just kind of like this kind of funk, funky, 430 00:23:25,350 --> 00:23:30,000 like, you know, romantic hippie guy, you know, I mean, he was, um, I don't know. 431 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,429 Anyway, I just, I I'm endeared to him for sure. 432 00:23:32,699 --> 00:23:37,230 Um, but it very interesting, you know, the Rick James was very pissed. 433 00:23:37,230 --> 00:23:37,710 He was pissed. 434 00:23:38,235 --> 00:23:41,865 Prince and Michael Jackson, he's like, look, you know, there's, 435 00:23:41,895 --> 00:23:43,814 you guys shouldn't be on MTV. 436 00:23:43,814 --> 00:23:46,774 You know, you should be supporting your fellow black man and boy Connie, 437 00:23:46,794 --> 00:23:48,435 because they won't play my videos. 438 00:23:48,705 --> 00:23:51,645 And, um, apparently prince and Michael Jackson did not agree with that. 439 00:23:52,830 --> 00:23:56,909 You know, there's probably some truth across the board to all the 440 00:23:56,909 --> 00:23:58,439 different, different challenges. 441 00:23:58,439 --> 00:24:01,770 Let's just say, because principals in a knee or a prince, uh, Rick 442 00:24:01,770 --> 00:24:04,350 James was an easy, easy guy to get along with and he was very, 443 00:24:04,620 --> 00:24:07,379 you know, open and he didn't say. 444 00:24:08,185 --> 00:24:10,795 You know, he wasn't slick, you know, when he talked, I 445 00:24:10,795 --> 00:24:12,085 mean, he would call on anybody. 446 00:24:12,085 --> 00:24:15,745 He just, I think it was a little different than what than to be really wanted to 447 00:24:15,745 --> 00:24:17,575 be promoting, you know, from that side. 448 00:24:17,575 --> 00:24:21,055 So it was, it was a bummer, but, uh, there's some good interviews, even in that 449 00:24:21,055 --> 00:24:23,845 tales, from the tour bus, from the Mike judge thing, there's some cool interviews 450 00:24:23,965 --> 00:24:28,285 where Rick James talks about that with the issues with MTV, it's worth a watch. 451 00:24:29,310 --> 00:24:31,860 You know, but the prince thing and the Rick James, obviously 452 00:24:31,860 --> 00:24:33,480 prince went on to do great things. 453 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,800 And Rick James sort of spiraled and sort of went downhill. 454 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:39,150 Um, you know, from there. 455 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,340 Brittney Sherman: Would I, what I took from it in tales from the tour bus they 456 00:24:44,340 --> 00:24:48,540 show, which I believe is probably totally accurate when prince was opening for 457 00:24:48,540 --> 00:24:53,190 Rick James, Rick James would stand on the side of the stage and watch prince. 458 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,520 And then when Rick James was performing, prince was standing on 459 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,210 the opposite side of the stage and watch Rick James and they pushed each 460 00:25:00,210 --> 00:25:02,250 other and they motivated each other. 461 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,640 And what I took from that is prince took that as. 462 00:25:06,355 --> 00:25:09,955 He's pushing me to another level to succeed and I'm going 463 00:25:09,955 --> 00:25:11,335 to step up to that level. 464 00:25:11,514 --> 00:25:15,865 But I took that Rick James looked at prince as this guy is encroaching 465 00:25:15,865 --> 00:25:18,295 in on my fame and he's a threat. 466 00:25:18,355 --> 00:25:21,504 And instead of using it to motivate himself, he actually started 467 00:25:21,504 --> 00:25:22,495 down more of a downward slope. 468 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:23,610 Sonia Meza-Leon: Yeah. 469 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:23,970 Yeah. 470 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,790 I mean, he was the incumbent, so that's principle, you know, 471 00:25:26,820 --> 00:25:27,990 principles the up and coming there. 472 00:25:27,990 --> 00:25:30,480 So that's, that's the natural progression. 473 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,880 I think, um, it was hard for Rick James. 474 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,770 You know, he fell out of favor. 475 00:25:34,770 --> 00:25:36,330 He upset a lot of people. 476 00:25:36,330 --> 00:25:39,570 Again, MTV did not, you know, sort of promote his videos. 477 00:25:39,870 --> 00:25:42,480 And, um, he continued to do a lot of drugs. 478 00:25:43,695 --> 00:25:49,155 Um, his it's his mainstream success ultimately peaked in around 1985. 479 00:25:49,185 --> 00:25:53,054 He released an album called glow and then apparently he was on a 480 00:25:53,054 --> 00:25:54,764 team, which I was not aware of. 481 00:25:55,185 --> 00:25:56,985 Uh, and I was on the show 18. 482 00:25:57,044 --> 00:26:00,554 I do know the showy team when I'm not interested in watching any 483 00:26:00,564 --> 00:26:01,575 of, I don't think I ever watched. 484 00:26:02,350 --> 00:26:02,590 Yeah. 485 00:26:02,620 --> 00:26:03,639 I didn't know he was on that show. 486 00:26:03,670 --> 00:26:04,270 That's interesting. 487 00:26:04,270 --> 00:26:07,060 Yeah, it sounds like he made an appearance and I don't know why that would be like 488 00:26:07,060 --> 00:26:09,760 a stellar moment in his career, but maybe it was the beginning of the end. 489 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:10,629 I don't know. 490 00:26:11,170 --> 00:26:13,480 Um, and then remember here's what's important. 491 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:14,950 Remember about Rick James, a lot of people. 492 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,370 First off Rick James, number one, any Grammys for any, any songs that he 493 00:26:20,370 --> 00:26:27,270 produced, um, and release on his own, he did however, win a Grammy with MC hammer 494 00:26:27,270 --> 00:26:29,730 when MC hammer sampled super freak. 495 00:26:30,030 --> 00:26:30,630 So probably, yeah. 496 00:26:31,205 --> 00:26:32,615 That could have ever happened to Rick. 497 00:26:32,615 --> 00:26:34,535 James was an MC hammer, did that. 498 00:26:34,685 --> 00:26:35,945 It was really important. 499 00:26:36,125 --> 00:26:38,795 And I also thought it was really important that MC hammer give 500 00:26:38,795 --> 00:26:39,965 Rick James credit for that. 501 00:26:40,115 --> 00:26:43,295 Because so many times these days people are sampling and stealing and 502 00:26:43,295 --> 00:26:45,515 they just, um, nothing ever happens. 503 00:26:45,515 --> 00:26:46,535 And he'd go to court forever. 504 00:26:46,535 --> 00:26:48,395 I mean, look what happened with vanilla ice? 505 00:26:48,665 --> 00:26:52,685 You know, these, these, these fricking trials play out forever and they 506 00:26:52,685 --> 00:26:54,635 go on and on and everybody loses. 507 00:26:54,935 --> 00:26:56,645 So I thought that was really great. 508 00:26:56,735 --> 00:27:01,155 Um, you know, The MC hammer was able to allow that to happen. 509 00:27:01,545 --> 00:27:06,345 And then in the 1990s, um, it sounds like this is when Rick James his 510 00:27:06,345 --> 00:27:08,625 career really went off the rails. 511 00:27:09,075 --> 00:27:14,355 He, the beginning of the end, in my opinion, he had legal issues. 512 00:27:14,445 --> 00:27:19,065 Uh, apparently he was convicted of two separate instances. 513 00:27:19,485 --> 00:27:23,505 So he was convicted of for two separate instances of kidnapping 514 00:27:23,505 --> 00:27:24,635 and torturing two separate. 515 00:27:25,650 --> 00:27:29,610 While under the influence of crack cocaine and he actually 516 00:27:29,610 --> 00:27:31,380 served three years, um, for that. 517 00:27:31,590 --> 00:27:37,530 Now let's talk a little bit about that because yes, I, I am going to, I, I tried 518 00:27:37,530 --> 00:27:41,190 to find information about this case and what I found with Brittany, I told you 519 00:27:41,550 --> 00:27:48,210 was that it seems like that th these, these crimes that he committed were sort 520 00:27:48,210 --> 00:27:52,889 of the side note to, you know, Even this article that I read, which I'm going 521 00:27:52,889 --> 00:27:57,780 to refer to, it was written in, um, it was published in the Los Angeles times. 522 00:27:57,780 --> 00:27:59,820 So it was written by Aaron Curtis and Jack Cheevers. 523 00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:02,550 And it was from August 3rd, 1991. 524 00:28:03,300 --> 00:28:07,260 And the headline reads singer Rick James' girlfriend arrested on charges 525 00:28:07,260 --> 00:28:12,450 of torturing woman crime, the couple re allegedly burn the victim with a crack 526 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,460 cocaine pipe and sexually abused her. 527 00:28:14,879 --> 00:28:16,830 So, okay. 528 00:28:16,860 --> 00:28:18,570 That's an interesting headline. 529 00:28:18,990 --> 00:28:20,220 Um, the. 530 00:28:21,750 --> 00:28:25,800 What's really, I don't think that it's fair to just sort of glaze over that. 531 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,680 I think it's really, um, in my opinion, a bit offensive, and it 532 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,860 sounds like that this was may have been typical behavior for Rick James. 533 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,750 Um, but it was sort of looked over and I'm not going to equate Rick James 534 00:28:36,780 --> 00:28:42,480 to, um, R Kelly per se, because I think that was a lot more criminal. 535 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:43,740 What R Kelly used to do. 536 00:28:44,070 --> 00:28:46,950 But I think that there were things that probably happened in Rick James life that. 537 00:28:47,699 --> 00:28:50,699 Others would think back on and think that they probably should have done something 538 00:28:50,699 --> 00:28:52,439 or what he was doing was illegal. 539 00:28:52,679 --> 00:28:56,189 I think that he had another woman come forward that said that he 540 00:28:56,189 --> 00:29:00,510 raped her when she was in a boarding school or in a school in Buffalo yet. 541 00:29:00,510 --> 00:29:01,649 And we'll get to that in a little bit. 542 00:29:01,679 --> 00:29:02,159 Yeah. 543 00:29:02,489 --> 00:29:04,919 And that happened early on in the seventies. 544 00:29:05,250 --> 00:29:10,080 So the crime that Rick James was convicted of with his girlfriend, 545 00:29:10,169 --> 00:29:12,510 apparently she was 23 or 24. 546 00:29:13,815 --> 00:29:17,715 She was 21 at the time when he won and they were at his house in the 547 00:29:17,715 --> 00:29:24,285 Hollywood Hills and essentially he was arrested for imprisoning and 548 00:29:24,285 --> 00:29:28,335 torturing this 24 year old woman with a hot cocaine pipe over three days. 549 00:29:28,785 --> 00:29:35,070 Uh, the actual crimes that he was convicted of were, uh, Let's see 550 00:29:35,130 --> 00:29:40,470 suspicion of assault, the deadly weapon, false imprisonment, correct? 551 00:29:40,470 --> 00:29:45,300 Worst oral copulation making terrorist threats and furnishing 552 00:29:45,300 --> 00:29:48,150 narcotics to this 24 year old woman. 553 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,630 Apparently this was not the S this was not the first incident. 554 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:57,270 Um, there was also, um, some, some, uh, key something brought against him 555 00:29:57,270 --> 00:30:01,140 for doing something similar to a music executive, a young music exhibit. 556 00:30:02,850 --> 00:30:08,909 Brittney Sherman: So he, uh, I think so he was, he held her captive for 557 00:30:08,940 --> 00:30:14,429 three days and ultimately I think the suspicion turned out to be accurate. 558 00:30:14,700 --> 00:30:20,250 You know, he drugged her, he forced her to do sex acts on his girlfriend. 559 00:30:20,610 --> 00:30:21,240 Uh, Tonya. 560 00:30:22,425 --> 00:30:23,955 Sonia Meza-Leon: Tanya has her jazzy 561 00:30:24,435 --> 00:30:25,125 Brittney Sherman: Hejazi. 562 00:30:25,155 --> 00:30:25,514 Thank you. 563 00:30:25,514 --> 00:30:25,725 Yeah. 564 00:30:26,085 --> 00:30:29,325 Uh, and, uh, of course false imprisonment. 565 00:30:29,655 --> 00:30:31,095 Oh, oh, strange. 566 00:30:31,185 --> 00:30:35,745 I, I found this to be a really strange crime because what. 567 00:30:37,140 --> 00:30:40,740 Oh, I guess, what do you get out of any crime, but holding someone for three days, 568 00:30:40,770 --> 00:30:46,440 forcing drugs on them and forcing them to perform sex acts on your girlfriend. 569 00:30:46,710 --> 00:30:48,870 I mean, what is the, what was the point of that? 570 00:30:48,870 --> 00:30:50,010 What drove him to that? 571 00:30:50,010 --> 00:30:50,970 That's what I don't understand. 572 00:30:50,970 --> 00:30:53,640 Like it was just such a bad high. 573 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,370 Was it such a drug induced motivation? 574 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:57,720 That's what I don't 575 00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:58,290 Sonia Meza-Leon: understand. 576 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,670 Well, here's what I think that let's just call it what it is. 577 00:31:03,645 --> 00:31:05,715 This was in the time or Rick James career. 578 00:31:07,095 --> 00:31:09,825 If this would have happened in the height of his career, this 579 00:31:09,825 --> 00:31:10,845 wouldn't have been a crime. 580 00:31:11,055 --> 00:31:14,685 And I can guarantee you that this probably happened frequently. 581 00:31:15,015 --> 00:31:17,415 You know where I mean, that's what it looks like to me. 582 00:31:17,655 --> 00:31:20,865 They, he would be with multiple women. 583 00:31:21,165 --> 00:31:24,465 Um, he would do whatever he wanted, you know, you know, get over. 584 00:31:24,465 --> 00:31:26,445 You're a bitch, I'm Rick James or whatever. 585 00:31:26,805 --> 00:31:28,095 So he had a history of this. 586 00:31:28,275 --> 00:31:34,780 I think that it was just, this moment was, you know, Uh, this, somebody came forward 587 00:31:34,780 --> 00:31:36,430 and finally said, you know enough with it. 588 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:37,350 I froze. 589 00:31:37,350 --> 00:31:38,510 So let's go. 590 00:31:38,510 --> 00:31:38,680 What do 591 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,560 Brittney Sherman: you think this is before we go deeper? 592 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,879 So you think that essentially this was, this was a pattern he had done 593 00:31:45,879 --> 00:31:50,290 this many times before, but he got caught because his level of fame. 594 00:31:51,345 --> 00:31:56,175 Dwindling and maybe this person felt more comfortable coming forward, or 595 00:31:56,175 --> 00:32:00,255 maybe this person was now believed because he wasn't as famous and 596 00:32:00,255 --> 00:32:01,695 untouchable as he was previously, 597 00:32:02,265 --> 00:32:03,195 Sonia Meza-Leon: this would have been covered up. 598 00:32:03,225 --> 00:32:03,435 Okay. 599 00:32:03,465 --> 00:32:07,395 So here's the, the way this went down was that James, Rick James and 600 00:32:07,395 --> 00:32:10,335 his girlfriend, Tanya Hijazi were. 601 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,240 They met up with this girl, this 24 year old woman. 602 00:32:14,540 --> 00:32:16,580 Um, apparently she was unemployed. 603 00:32:16,580 --> 00:32:19,340 They met her at a party and they're like, Hey, you know, come and stay 604 00:32:19,340 --> 00:32:22,880 with us at the big Hollywood Hills house, you know, with the Rick James. 605 00:32:23,300 --> 00:32:23,840 Awesome. 606 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,680 So, you know, again, you know, luring her. 607 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,950 He threatened her with a gun. 608 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,560 He told her that he would kill her if she tried to leave. 609 00:32:33,980 --> 00:32:40,340 Uh, he and the Tonya Hejazi tied her up and severely burner, um, w 20 610 00:32:40,340 --> 00:32:42,440 times or so with a hot crack pipe. 611 00:32:43,709 --> 00:32:48,060 And then he, like you said, he forced the victim to essentially, you 612 00:32:48,060 --> 00:32:51,689 know, give oral whatever to Hijazi. 613 00:32:51,990 --> 00:32:56,010 Um, while he watched again, this would be typical behavior for Rick James. 614 00:32:56,010 --> 00:32:59,730 This is something that would happen probably on tour, like five times a week. 615 00:33:00,149 --> 00:33:04,980 Um, and then they smoke crack and then they forced the victim to as well. 616 00:33:05,340 --> 00:33:09,419 And then the girl just wanders out of the house somehow makes 617 00:33:09,419 --> 00:33:12,570 her way to, um, Hospital. 618 00:33:12,570 --> 00:33:14,190 And then the hospital called the police. 619 00:33:14,550 --> 00:33:16,260 So she didn't call the police, the hospital. 620 00:33:17,610 --> 00:33:17,850 Right. 621 00:33:17,850 --> 00:33:18,330 Makes sense. 622 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:18,600 Yep. 623 00:33:18,690 --> 00:33:18,990 Okay. 624 00:33:19,050 --> 00:33:23,190 So if the hospital wouldn't have called the police, there's, there's, it's 625 00:33:23,310 --> 00:33:26,820 unlikely that Rick James would have ever had any issues with this, but I think 626 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,680 for something now, what, what I think happened again, you know, I think this 627 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,270 was typical behavior for Rick James. 628 00:33:33,270 --> 00:33:36,330 This is typical for someone who has this kind of power, is that 629 00:33:36,330 --> 00:33:39,810 they're going to tell people to do whatever they want them to do. 630 00:33:39,810 --> 00:33:40,400 And in that. 631 00:33:41,140 --> 00:33:42,760 Those people feel overpowered. 632 00:33:42,790 --> 00:33:45,550 And because they're trying to please this famous person or whatever, 633 00:33:45,550 --> 00:33:46,750 they'll do whatever they want. 634 00:33:47,050 --> 00:33:52,480 We've seen this time and time again with a variety of different people in power. 635 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,690 Um, you know, I would say Michael Jackson would probably fall into this 636 00:33:55,690 --> 00:34:00,100 category where they were untouchable and they had enough money to quiet 637 00:34:00,100 --> 00:34:03,490 people and buy people off and, you know, keep people from coming forward 638 00:34:03,490 --> 00:34:06,760 because they would, those people would be not punished, but they would 639 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:08,650 lose their career or they would lose. 640 00:34:08,650 --> 00:34:09,639 They would fall out of favor. 641 00:34:10,095 --> 00:34:10,545 People. 642 00:34:10,875 --> 00:34:13,215 So I do think it was a similar situation. 643 00:34:13,215 --> 00:34:17,565 I think Rick James had, I mean, when you're doing crack, I guess, you 644 00:34:17,565 --> 00:34:20,295 know, I mean, I don't know, you're not, probably not in your right mind 645 00:34:20,295 --> 00:34:24,495 anyway, but to be a person who was doing that kind of drug or those kinds 646 00:34:24,495 --> 00:34:29,325 of drugs, many drugs, and to have this all powerful feeling, you know, you're 647 00:34:29,325 --> 00:34:30,945 untouchable, you can do whatever you want. 648 00:34:30,945 --> 00:34:32,955 I mean, you are the king of the world. 649 00:34:33,165 --> 00:34:36,284 And I think that cocaine just makes that feeling much more, 650 00:34:36,345 --> 00:34:38,795 um, You know, probably prominent. 651 00:34:39,034 --> 00:34:40,985 So again, you know, you're untouchable. 652 00:34:40,985 --> 00:34:41,225 I. 653 00:34:42,045 --> 00:34:44,714 I, I, I think this was probably common for James. 654 00:34:44,714 --> 00:34:47,625 I think that he just had an unwilling participant or he had 655 00:34:47,625 --> 00:34:50,654 a willing participant who went to the hospital and the hospital, you 656 00:34:50,654 --> 00:34:51,944 know, made a big deal out of it. 657 00:34:52,245 --> 00:34:54,125 But, and Rick James was a powerful anymore. 658 00:34:54,165 --> 00:34:57,285 Powerful enough to, to sort of get, get away from this kind of thing. 659 00:34:57,464 --> 00:35:02,505 I bet in back in the day, when he was powerful, I guarantee his record label 660 00:35:02,505 --> 00:35:06,464 or any of his powerful friends would have probably cut, had this resolved quickly. 661 00:35:06,645 --> 00:35:09,495 He would have just got dismissed and nobody would've said anything about it. 662 00:35:09,495 --> 00:35:10,335 It would have been a misunder. 663 00:35:11,730 --> 00:35:11,880 And 664 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:12,720 Brittney Sherman: that's very possible. 665 00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:19,680 And at this point he probably, well, he was still famous in 1991. 666 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:24,120 He was certainly not at the peak of his fame and maybe he didn't have the 667 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,090 proper resources to buy this person off. 668 00:35:27,300 --> 00:35:32,070 Uh, and he, uh, he was no longer. 669 00:35:33,135 --> 00:35:40,185 Rick James, the superstar who had all these resources available to him. 670 00:35:40,425 --> 00:35:44,685 Uh, and I think that actually, if you go back in again, as crazy as 671 00:35:44,685 --> 00:35:48,915 it sounds, watch that Chappelle show episode, it'll speak to the people 672 00:35:48,915 --> 00:35:50,805 that he upset over his life that made. 673 00:35:51,634 --> 00:35:54,915 At one time would have stood up for him and helped him hide 674 00:35:54,915 --> 00:35:58,444 it and cover these things up no longer wanted to do that for him. 675 00:35:58,444 --> 00:35:59,525 And he didn't have that. 676 00:36:00,125 --> 00:36:01,895 Sonia Meza-Leon: Well, he couldn't, you know, they couldn't, 677 00:36:01,924 --> 00:36:05,255 they couldn't put themselves at risk with his behavior anymore. 678 00:36:05,255 --> 00:36:06,935 And I think that's ultimately what it was. 679 00:36:07,265 --> 00:36:13,560 I think that, um, you know, Again, I would say, take a look 680 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:14,700 at tales from the tour bus. 681 00:36:14,730 --> 00:36:19,260 And I say that in a, I mean, I watched that, that I knew it was a comedy. 682 00:36:19,260 --> 00:36:23,250 I love Mike judge, but I felt really, I thought that the guys in the, 683 00:36:23,250 --> 00:36:27,030 from the band who were interviewed, I mean, there were funny as hell. 684 00:36:27,030 --> 00:36:30,120 These guys, these were old, like salty, you know, like 685 00:36:30,150 --> 00:36:32,070 R and B guys like funk guys. 686 00:36:32,070 --> 00:36:33,150 I mean, they got it. 687 00:36:34,105 --> 00:36:36,325 You know, but they, they just really struggled with 688 00:36:36,325 --> 00:36:37,855 it because he was their guy. 689 00:36:37,855 --> 00:36:38,185 Right. 690 00:36:38,185 --> 00:36:41,395 He was the lead singer of their band. 691 00:36:41,395 --> 00:36:44,754 He was there, their, you know, powerful leader and. 692 00:36:45,674 --> 00:36:51,134 Ultimately, you know, he fell apart and he didn't try to take them with him, but 693 00:36:51,194 --> 00:36:55,305 they could never get back together and the band can never be successful without him. 694 00:36:55,455 --> 00:36:57,225 So it just led to failure. 695 00:36:57,225 --> 00:37:00,645 It was really a bummer, but they talked about him thoughtfully and they talked 696 00:37:00,645 --> 00:37:06,075 about him as, um, in a way that, you know, suggested that he had some demons that 697 00:37:06,075 --> 00:37:08,145 he was dealing with for his entire life. 698 00:37:08,174 --> 00:37:11,235 And he didn't know any other way to sort of, you know, sort of. 699 00:37:11,950 --> 00:37:18,160 Execute, um, on, you know, his behavior, but I'm not as dismissive 700 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:22,210 because I don't, I don't look, I don't care how famous you are. 701 00:37:22,270 --> 00:37:23,890 I don't think you should be allowed to rate people. 702 00:37:23,919 --> 00:37:28,520 And I don't think there's, there's no, you know, Uh, way that you can 703 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,620 tell me that there's any difference. 704 00:37:30,620 --> 00:37:34,250 It's like, you know, I mean, just because you're a famous no, no, it's a 705 00:37:34,250 --> 00:37:36,070 suggestion or, oh, it was consensual. 706 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:36,730 Not really. 707 00:37:36,740 --> 00:37:36,950 No. 708 00:37:37,010 --> 00:37:37,130 I 709 00:37:37,130 --> 00:37:38,990 Brittney Sherman: mean, it's not even worth entertaining that idea 710 00:37:38,990 --> 00:37:41,420 because it's so despicable to think that someone might think that it's 711 00:37:41,420 --> 00:37:41,840 Sonia Meza-Leon: okay. 712 00:37:41,870 --> 00:37:44,000 Well, it happens all the time. 713 00:37:44,210 --> 00:37:44,780 I know. 714 00:37:45,500 --> 00:37:48,560 Watch like any big rock and roll band. 715 00:37:49,180 --> 00:37:51,760 These people, that's how they, they operate. 716 00:37:51,790 --> 00:37:55,690 You know, I mean, I'm not going to say that every musician out there in the world 717 00:37:55,690 --> 00:38:00,610 is a rapist, but we know, I mean, if you know anybody who's ever been a part of 718 00:38:00,610 --> 00:38:05,260 those groups, um, and I knew know some of those people, you know, they, they 719 00:38:05,260 --> 00:38:09,580 take advantage of situations and people because they have the power to do so. 720 00:38:09,730 --> 00:38:12,580 And then they get used to that kind of thing and, um, 721 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:14,410 it's becomes normal for them. 722 00:38:14,590 --> 00:38:15,370 And it also. 723 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,560 I have to say it desensitizes them to what's normal and it 724 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:20,970 makes them want more of it. 725 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,060 Like they can't be satisfied with normal anymore. 726 00:38:24,060 --> 00:38:29,759 They have to have this over the top behavior because they're so bored, 727 00:38:29,790 --> 00:38:31,380 honestly, with normal behavior. 728 00:38:31,380 --> 00:38:33,420 I don't think Rick James could have had a normal relationship 729 00:38:33,420 --> 00:38:34,380 to be quite honest with you. 730 00:38:34,380 --> 00:38:38,970 I think you needed this kind of, of, um, sort of that excitement. 731 00:38:39,390 --> 00:38:43,020 Brittney Sherman: He found it exciting despicable, disgusting, awful. 732 00:38:43,410 --> 00:38:43,770 And. 733 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:45,840 I, I agree. 734 00:38:45,870 --> 00:38:46,710 And, you know, 735 00:38:47,490 --> 00:38:48,450 Sonia Meza-Leon: he says 736 00:38:49,830 --> 00:38:53,610 Brittney Sherman: in that Chappelle show episode, you says cocaine is a 737 00:38:53,610 --> 00:38:57,090 powerful drug, but I think to your point, fame is a powerful drug. 738 00:38:57,240 --> 00:38:58,500 Well, it's what drove him. 739 00:38:58,500 --> 00:39:01,080 And that's what drives so many people like you're referring 740 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:02,160 Sonia Meza-Leon: to it. 741 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:02,940 Definitely. 742 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:03,480 And I think. 743 00:39:04,125 --> 00:39:05,475 It's Chris rock said at one time. 744 00:39:05,475 --> 00:39:06,795 And I thought it was really interesting. 745 00:39:07,155 --> 00:39:11,955 Um, you know, but he talks about, um, infidelity in one of his like standup 746 00:39:11,955 --> 00:39:17,115 shows and he says, you know, when you're famous, you know, you are, you 747 00:39:17,115 --> 00:39:19,305 are only as faithful as your options. 748 00:39:19,545 --> 00:39:22,930 And if you've got all the options in the world, You're going to take advantage 749 00:39:22,930 --> 00:39:26,589 of those, you know, there's nobody, you know, he makes fun of it, but he's 750 00:39:26,589 --> 00:39:29,440 like, there's no like, you know, nerdy white dude in the corner without the 751 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,500 option saying, you know, he's gonna take advantage of women because he 752 00:39:32,500 --> 00:39:34,569 just doesn't have the option to do so. 753 00:39:34,750 --> 00:39:38,200 But when you have the world on you're on a platter and there are 754 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,240 no repercussions for your actions. 755 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,669 Awfully hard to manage yourself if you don't have that moral construct from 756 00:39:44,669 --> 00:39:49,500 a young child, honestly, I mean, and that's for a lot of reasons, economic 757 00:39:49,500 --> 00:39:54,149 rubric James, um, his mom sort of gave him that modeling and in it's a 758 00:39:54,149 --> 00:39:57,390 bad situation to be in, but I don't think that he was ever in a situation 759 00:39:57,390 --> 00:39:58,620 to ever understand that it could be. 760 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,360 Going back to Rick James let's remember that this was a person who was addicted 761 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:07,680 to drugs for absolutely many, many, many years early on in his life. 762 00:40:07,860 --> 00:40:10,140 So pretty much his entire life. 763 00:40:10,710 --> 00:40:14,070 So I think we're expecting a lot of a person who has that kind of addiction 764 00:40:14,070 --> 00:40:15,480 to be able to correct themselves. 765 00:40:15,660 --> 00:40:17,640 Just it's really not possible. 766 00:40:17,850 --> 00:40:20,520 I mean, they have a hard enough time just managing their daily. 767 00:40:21,025 --> 00:40:25,315 You know, feelings and their daily life, and those triggers with positive 768 00:40:25,315 --> 00:40:28,735 triggers or negative triggers, triggers are triggers, and they will 769 00:40:28,735 --> 00:40:30,325 send these people into a spiral. 770 00:40:30,325 --> 00:40:34,885 So it's, um, I'm not surprising that Rick James got there considering the path 771 00:40:34,885 --> 00:40:36,415 that he took, but it's disappointing. 772 00:40:36,415 --> 00:40:40,435 And it bums me out because I did appreciate his music and I did really 773 00:40:40,435 --> 00:40:41,905 feel like that he was an innovator. 774 00:40:42,205 --> 00:40:46,975 Um, but I, I wished that he could have been able to get a handle on himself and 775 00:40:46,975 --> 00:40:49,285 use that for something more positive. 776 00:40:50,140 --> 00:40:54,549 Um, instead of, you know, sort of going down this road and ultimately 777 00:40:54,549 --> 00:40:55,870 he passed away of a heart attack. 778 00:40:55,870 --> 00:40:57,490 I mean, he'd very sad. 779 00:40:57,970 --> 00:40:58,480 Brittney Sherman: Yeah. 780 00:40:58,509 --> 00:41:00,069 So, um, so if we can. 781 00:41:00,884 --> 00:41:01,845 Step backwards. 782 00:41:01,845 --> 00:41:06,165 Get into, uh, we, we talked about the crime, the three-day imprisonment. 783 00:41:06,435 --> 00:41:10,785 He was arrested along with his girlfriend, Tanya Hijazi. 784 00:41:11,205 --> 00:41:16,214 Uh, they were released on a half, a million dollars bond pending trial, 785 00:41:16,545 --> 00:41:19,904 and while they were free on bond. 786 00:41:20,515 --> 00:41:27,265 They did this again to a music executive in 1993, while they were awaiting trial, 787 00:41:27,745 --> 00:41:32,004 uh, and held her for 20 hours this time. 788 00:41:32,305 --> 00:41:36,924 But pretty much it was the same set of circumstances to kind of 789 00:41:36,924 --> 00:41:40,495 what you were talking about before this wasn't a one-time thing. 790 00:41:40,645 --> 00:41:41,754 This was a pattern. 791 00:41:41,875 --> 00:41:43,584 This was regular. 792 00:41:44,460 --> 00:41:47,490 How he operated and 793 00:41:47,550 --> 00:41:48,540 Sonia Meza-Leon: it will be normal. 794 00:41:48,570 --> 00:41:53,490 This is what this, this was a totally normal thing for him to do. 795 00:41:54,450 --> 00:42:00,480 Brittney Sherman: And he was rearrested on this charge thankfully and ultimately 796 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:07,170 found guilty on both charges and he faced life in prison for false and prison. 797 00:42:08,055 --> 00:42:11,295 But somehow I don't understand this. 798 00:42:11,595 --> 00:42:17,685 He was found not guilty of that charge, but was guilty of other charges. 799 00:42:17,955 --> 00:42:23,055 Uh, so he served two years in prison and while he was in prison, the second woman 800 00:42:23,055 --> 00:42:31,424 who, uh, the music executive, Mary saga, She received a $2 million civil suit 801 00:42:31,424 --> 00:42:38,955 payout from Rick James estate and then an additional $750,000 from a private 802 00:42:38,955 --> 00:42:41,835 security firm and the hotel where she was 803 00:42:41,835 --> 00:42:42,194 Sonia Meza-Leon: held back. 804 00:42:43,109 --> 00:42:47,069 They must have not had enough to prove that he held her. 805 00:42:47,850 --> 00:42:48,120 Hm. 806 00:42:48,240 --> 00:42:48,690 Interestingly 807 00:42:48,690 --> 00:42:49,770 Brittney Sherman: against her whale or something. 808 00:42:49,770 --> 00:42:50,040 Right, 809 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:50,640 Sonia Meza-Leon: exactly. 810 00:42:50,700 --> 00:42:50,930 Yeah. 811 00:42:51,049 --> 00:42:53,100 It gets tough because you've got again, 812 00:42:53,129 --> 00:42:53,730 Brittney Sherman: hang on a second. 813 00:42:53,730 --> 00:42:54,270 Hang on a second. 814 00:42:54,390 --> 00:42:54,899 Let me rephrase. 815 00:42:54,930 --> 00:42:56,940 I, I guess I got that backwards. 816 00:42:57,149 --> 00:42:59,460 He was, he was found guilty of false imprisonment. 817 00:42:59,460 --> 00:43:03,540 He was found not guilty of torture and torture was the charge 818 00:43:03,540 --> 00:43:04,319 that could have put him away. 819 00:43:04,980 --> 00:43:05,580 Sonia Meza-Leon: Interesting. 820 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:05,970 Yeah. 821 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,009 I, um, wow. 822 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,770 Well, he got out and he did, he did a couple more things when 823 00:43:10,770 --> 00:43:11,670 he got out and the ultimate. 824 00:43:12,750 --> 00:43:13,830 Passed away, right? 825 00:43:14,549 --> 00:43:14,850 Yeah. 826 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:19,529 Brittney Sherman: He, uh, in all, honestly, what is what I 827 00:43:19,529 --> 00:43:21,299 found really kind of interesting. 828 00:43:21,660 --> 00:43:28,049 Um, you know, he had these charges, he did some time in prison. 829 00:43:28,049 --> 00:43:33,870 I don't think it was enough, but he tried to make a comeback. 830 00:43:33,870 --> 00:43:36,900 He was featured on Chappelle show. 831 00:43:37,845 --> 00:43:39,225 For an entire generation. 832 00:43:39,225 --> 00:43:42,345 That's how people know of Rick James. 833 00:43:42,765 --> 00:43:46,515 And he was planning a comeback tour. 834 00:43:47,024 --> 00:43:51,734 Very similar to Michael Jackson was planning his comeback to, or when he died. 835 00:43:52,064 --> 00:43:58,455 And in, uh, as you said, he, Rick James ultimately died of a heart attack in 2004. 836 00:43:59,084 --> 00:44:03,765 Therefore his really last stint of fame was. 837 00:44:04,590 --> 00:44:10,860 Chappelle's show and he was never able to regain the level of prominence 838 00:44:10,860 --> 00:44:18,390 or reputation of, uh, in music that he, I think always strive 839 00:44:18,390 --> 00:44:24,330 to achieve, but he never got the level of respect that he felt he 840 00:44:24,330 --> 00:44:24,840 Sonia Meza-Leon: deserved. 841 00:44:26,220 --> 00:44:26,550 Yeah. 842 00:44:26,610 --> 00:44:28,020 I, uh, Hmm. 843 00:44:28,170 --> 00:44:28,830 That's sad. 844 00:44:29,850 --> 00:44:30,390 Alrighty. 845 00:44:30,450 --> 00:44:31,110 Well, there you go. 846 00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:32,170 Yeah. 847 00:44:33,919 --> 00:44:34,180 I 848 00:44:34,230 --> 00:44:38,029 Brittney Sherman: dunno, I guess I don't, because I just feel that he's, you 849 00:44:38,029 --> 00:44:40,370 know, he, uh, I don't feel sad for him. 850 00:44:40,580 --> 00:44:41,600 I don't think he was. 851 00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:43,160 I think he was a very talented guy. 852 00:44:43,370 --> 00:44:48,049 I think that he was a great artist he worked with, but you know, a lot of the 853 00:44:48,049 --> 00:44:51,980 people you talked about, what are the ones I found most fascinating was Neil 854 00:44:51,980 --> 00:44:58,160 young, uh, and try to collaborate with Crosby stills, young and Nash, but that 855 00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:02,029 ended up not happening, but he never, he. 856 00:45:02,910 --> 00:45:06,750 Want it, that level of Michael Jackson and prince fame, but he never got. 857 00:45:08,345 --> 00:45:08,705 Sonia Meza-Leon: Yeah. 858 00:45:08,765 --> 00:45:13,265 Well, I mean, again, I think his actions sort of didn't, 859 00:45:13,355 --> 00:45:15,305 you know, sort of go there. 860 00:45:15,305 --> 00:45:16,325 I, I, I don't know. 861 00:45:16,355 --> 00:45:20,195 I don't know if I would agree with him that he deserved that kind of fame. 862 00:45:21,245 --> 00:45:23,465 Brittney Sherman: I don't think it, I don't agree that he did. 863 00:45:23,465 --> 00:45:24,455 I didn't think he was nearly as 864 00:45:24,455 --> 00:45:25,265 Sonia Meza-Leon: talented as they were. 865 00:45:25,355 --> 00:45:25,775 Yeah. 866 00:45:25,924 --> 00:45:26,555 Which is sad. 867 00:45:26,555 --> 00:45:30,605 And again, you know, back to a drug addiction, maybe he wasn't because he 868 00:45:30,605 --> 00:45:32,165 just couldn't overcome that addiction. 869 00:45:32,165 --> 00:45:36,545 So we will never know, but, uh, An interesting case to say 870 00:45:36,545 --> 00:45:38,285 the least, uh, Scarlett autos. 871 00:45:38,525 --> 00:45:42,905 I know that, um, a lot of people sort of forget sometimes 872 00:45:42,905 --> 00:45:44,585 about the Rick James crimes. 873 00:45:44,585 --> 00:45:47,945 And I'm glad we could talk about them, Brittany, but the other parts 874 00:45:47,945 --> 00:45:52,245 of it, where we talk about prince and, and the history, you know, I 875 00:45:52,245 --> 00:45:55,605 would highly suggest going back and look at the, that the, the Chappelle 876 00:45:55,615 --> 00:45:58,065 show and the tales from the tour bus. 877 00:45:58,424 --> 00:46:00,674 Again, you know, Wikipedia actually has some really good 878 00:46:00,674 --> 00:46:03,375 information about Rick James that I thought was interesting as well. 879 00:46:03,525 --> 00:46:06,225 And then there's a ton of stuff on YouTube where you can watch interviews 880 00:46:06,225 --> 00:46:07,815 with Rick James, talk about MTV. 881 00:46:07,815 --> 00:46:11,715 So, um, I would strongly suggest it, but, you know, again, I, I'm 882 00:46:11,715 --> 00:46:15,045 sad to see the downfall of people who have drug problems and, um, you 883 00:46:15,045 --> 00:46:18,165 know, it's a good example of how it's just almost impossible to overcome. 884 00:46:18,165 --> 00:46:18,615 It's terrible. 885 00:46:19,970 --> 00:46:22,430 Brittney Sherman: I was really surprised when I started researching this because 886 00:46:22,430 --> 00:46:24,860 you suggested this topic, uh, interviewed. 887 00:46:24,890 --> 00:46:28,970 I think I mentioned at the start of our episode here, that I didn't realize 888 00:46:28,970 --> 00:46:30,590 all of the things that he was into. 889 00:46:30,950 --> 00:46:34,760 And unfortunately, I think we probably only scratched the 890 00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,570 surface of all the things that he did that just weren't reported. 891 00:46:38,930 --> 00:46:43,100 Uh, in two other quick things to wrap this up in 1998, he was accused of. 892 00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:47,670 Third rape, but those charges were later dropped after he was out of prison. 893 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:53,820 And earlier this year in February of 2020, he's a state was sued by a 894 00:46:53,820 --> 00:46:57,240 woman who suggested that he raped her. 895 00:46:57,450 --> 00:47:03,300 As you mentioned earlier in Buffalo, when I think she was 15 years old in 1978. 896 00:47:03,630 --> 00:47:03,990 So. 897 00:47:04,755 --> 00:47:10,245 Unfortunately, these, uh, these charges, they keep popping up even 898 00:47:10,485 --> 00:47:12,435 over 15 years after his death. 899 00:47:12,435 --> 00:47:18,075 And we're learning more about the guy and, uh, hu. 900 00:47:18,555 --> 00:47:21,944 My opinion really only had two hit songs, but try to leave a legacy and 901 00:47:21,944 --> 00:47:27,105 his legacy is turning out to be more criminal and sorted rather than musical. 902 00:47:27,944 --> 00:47:28,245 Okay. 903 00:47:28,245 --> 00:47:30,495 We're gonna wrap this episode up. 904 00:47:30,915 --> 00:47:35,205 Um, Everyone out there, stay healthy. 905 00:47:35,625 --> 00:47:37,275 Keep social distancing. 906 00:47:37,305 --> 00:47:39,015 I know it's a tough time right now. 907 00:47:39,045 --> 00:47:43,065 I know it's hard to stay home when the weather's starting to get nice. 908 00:47:43,425 --> 00:47:46,605 Uh, but we're trying to protect each other. 909 00:47:46,695 --> 00:47:47,625 Stay healthy. 910 00:47:47,865 --> 00:47:51,075 Thank you to all of our first responders. 911 00:47:51,365 --> 00:47:54,225 Thanks to all of the, uh, healthcare workers. 912 00:47:55,855 --> 00:47:57,265 Sonia, anything else? 913 00:47:57,925 --> 00:47:58,615 Sonia Meza-Leon: Nope. 914 00:47:58,675 --> 00:48:01,645 Looking forward to, uh, the release in this episode. 915 00:48:01,645 --> 00:48:02,815 So stay tuned. 916 00:48:03,715 --> 00:48:04,495 All right. 917 00:48:04,525 --> 00:48:08,875 Brittney Sherman: Um, well, shout out to everyone in the pod 918 00:48:08,875 --> 00:48:10,615 all the time podcast network. 919 00:48:10,615 --> 00:48:12,295 We're glad to be part of you guys. 920 00:48:13,075 --> 00:48:14,785 We are the ladies of Scarlet.