Today's topic, what's the value of your personal brand?

um, I wanted to talk about this because, uh, I was trying to

think of things to talk about.

So we are running the Vision 2020 Program, tribe six.

Um, and we are just finishing off the purpose module.

Uh, and we are going onto the next module, which is, uh, we call it

product, but ultimately what we're talking about is how do we design

transformational products and services.

And as you remember, Ben, we talk about the Satir change model.

Uh, and a lot of people don't really understand it and

really find it hard to use.

So we were talking about the story of change.

Mm-Hmm.

This is really going to go around the houses for any of you.

Um, this will take a while to warm up, but just bear with me

Or come back in 15 minutes.

Or come back in 15 minutes and we'll get to the juicy bit.

But anyway, so we talk about the story of change and how do you tell

the story of change of your customer?

Where do they start?

Where do they want to get to?

What's getting in the way?

And how do you.

Present it as a narrative?

Mm-Hmm.

Everyone loves a story.

Stories communicate much more rich information than telling

them about facts and figures.

And that's all great in terms of like marketing and or

even just designing products.

But it's a hard thing to do unless you, what I believe tell your own story.

And what is your own story?

How do you tell your own story of change and pinpoint.

Those pivotal moments during that journey.

The hardship, uh, what you've overcome, the epiphanies and

where you got to in the end.

Because by doing that, you then understand you, there's an empathy there.

It's like, ah, okay, I see what someone else might be going through, through,

because of that's what I went through.

Mm-Hmm.

Which then got me to actually telling that story of change for yourself

is kind of core to what I understand of personal brand and marketing.

But this Friday we're gonna be talking to a guy called Mychael Owen.

Not that Michael Owen, another Mychael Owen, who's written a blog called 50

Odd, and it's his story of turning 50.

Ahuh, there's a theme.

It's all 50.

There's a theme.

Yeah.

Exactly.

So he's has his story and he, one of his blog posts, which I really liked, which

he talked about was like, what is it that you can say that no one else can?

And I linked that to, what is that story?

Your own story, your own change, your own unique perspective

journey that only you can tell?

And how that becomes core to your personal brand, as I say.

because that's uniquely you.

That's uniquely your values, your history, your all of that.

Mm-Hmm.

And then how does that link to then other people?

What is that in a sense of connection?

And then, you know, all around the houses, what does that mean in terms of pricing?

Mm-Hmm.

What does that mean in terms of how people will choose you, how much they

will pay, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Mm-Hmm.

And then linking it back to the course is, one of the modules is about options.

You know, how we present options because people, if you don't give them

options in different ways to, to kind of frame or reference points for them

to ch make a decision, then sometimes they just won't even make a decision.

Mm-Hmm.

It's easier not to make a decision.

So how do you make those easy options?

And so I was thinking one of the, one of the five Ts that you share, Ben, around

the different ways to present options.

One of the five Ts is team.

And when I think about team, I think about who is it you're gonna work with.

Mm-Hmm.

You work with a junior person, like when we were web design.

Agency, you could have a junior designer making the, your website design, or

you could have a senior designer like Laurence and each of those people has a

different engagement because one would be cheaper and one would be more expensive.

Mm-Hmm.

Presumably because of the experience.

So similarly as a person who has a brand and has a story and a sense of experience,

but also not only just about the level of experience and knowledge, but also

something that's else that's connecting.

Mm-Hmm.

That like, oh.

I see their story, I see their journey.

It's the journey I've been on.

It's the journey I wanna be on.

I see their values.

It's the values that I hold.

You know, I want to be seen as part of them.

That's why I will pay X amount.

Or even just pay this amount to them rather than to them.

Yeah, in, in many respects where it, this obviously links specifically to

pricing, you know, pricing the value of you, this also then touches on

things around, you know, commodity is what you're doing a commodity?

Essentially.

The, you know, the prices that you can charge is really linked to how

different you feel in the marketplace, which is a sort of, essentially a part

of what is being spoken of by like the 50 odd, did you say it was 50 odd?

The person who wrote the thing?

Yeah, yeah.

You know, the, the, the thing which is kind of uniquely you, the thing which is

your, your story, these are all the things which kind of make, make you different.

And that difference is of course where value is 'cause, like what

you are saying, that difference will appeal to some people and not others,

which of course needs to happen.

We can't appeal to all the people all the time.

In fact, we try and appeal to all the people all the time.

We just end up appealing to not very many people most of the time.

So the kind of the value of difference, the value sort of standing out, the value

of accepting, you'll be kind of more right for some people and less right for others.

And that is good and that's important because that does kind of reinforce value.

These, of course, this is all kind of essential central to the

thing around personal story and branding, it kind of feels to me.

And the other thing which was coming to mind when you were talking about

team and like the example of say junior designer versus working with

a senior designer like Laurence.

Of course, one of the things which comes up for lots of people on the

course or who might be people who work on their own, essentially, people

think, oh, well there is only me.

But the thing that actually came up to me as you're thinking, as you were talking

about that, was thinking about this point of team as how you sit in the marketplace.

So, um, you know, you might be talking to a prospective customer or client

and that you kind of have the kind of confidence that your story, your expertise

means that you are kind of up here.

That, you know, your credit, your, your experience, your expertise does mean

you are elevated in the marketplace.

And the reason why in a law firm or a design business or whatever it might

be, the kind of references that you give them, people are sort of happy to stand

behind the idea of a higher price for more experienced people is the idea, the

story essentially, that their expertise, their experience means that there is,

is in a way they may not articulate it like this, that there is less risk.

So, 'cause of course one of the things that people are buying from you is, is the

opportunity to mitigate some kind of risk.

And if they're, if somebody who is more senior, somebody who has more

experience, more expertise, they have that, you know, they're able

to kind of bring a surer solution.

And so the thing around team, which was, was just getting to at the end,

there is a way of thinking if you work on your own is you, it is okay to sort

of compare yourself in the mind of the prospective customer, um, in comparison

to other people in the marketplace.

You know, there are, if you think about just from a crew design sense, you know,

there are lots and lots of very junior designers say, who are on Fiverr, and

lots of those kind of the, the kind of freelance, you know, just kind of,

you bid for work, you do the work.

That's a really good kind of contrast because you might

use that as a comparison.

You might use that to kind of elevate or reinforce your story, your positioning

of expertise, your positioning of experience, your position of, uh, the

thing that is kind of uniquely 50 odd about you and that, that sort of story.

So using a kind of position within a marketplace to help elevate your

position within the team Comparison.

Um, it is probably is potentially also quite a useful thing to do.

there's positioning and there's perception.

Mm-Hmm.

I think are the, the two words that I wanted to, to sort of explore.

So you talked about positioning in terms of how are you, you

know, compared to someone else, what do you stand for in a sense.

And I can remember, uh, one of the, um, exercises or challenges that a good friend

of our ours, a Alan Wick post to myself and Laurence in terms of positioning was

some, and I, I I'm gonna get this wrong, but it was along the lines of is it about

relationship or is it about product?

Are you the best product or is it about in nearly the, the

experience that you'll have?

Mm-Hmm.

So the example he gave me was like, you've got a surgeon.

Who's just the most amazing surgeon ever, like will just remove whatever

needs to be removed in the quickest way.

And you have a surgeon who's very good, but it's about his manner.

He's just the most nice, calm, relaxing person that you could work with.

And so while they're doing the same thing, they're positioning

themselves in different ways.

Mm-Hmm.

One is the best in the world and one is really nice and really good, you know,

an ex lovely experience to work with.

And so when I think about positioning, it is what you're saying is

like you can't please everyone.

And so some people just wanna feel safe.

Mm-hmm.

Or not safe, just feel like they're going through a nice, nice

journey through that operation

Mm-Hmm.

And some people just are, they like to be with the best

Mm-Hmm.

They just wanna be with amazing, most amazing people.

And some people like to be with, I don't know, people,

and this is where I think it.

It gets away from what you're talking about in terms of commodities and

this is much more service-based, maybe targeted more at coaches, consultants,

and I would say even agency people where there's a story about their work.

Mm-Hmm.

You know, whether they are B-Corp, or whether they have struggled with

fighting a system that's, you know, around design or something like that.

But there's, they, they stand for a cause and they talk about it and they share it.

And so there's something around I would, I wanna be associated to

them or they, they're gonna get me.

You know, you're talking about trust and uncertainty.

It's like I'm not gonna have to explain myself with these people, 'cause they've

lived the life I've lived or they've had the experiences I've experienced.

And so I'm potentially willing, and this is just, I'm just questioning

this and I'm just offering that as I'm potentially willing to pay more to

this person than I am to even someone who, you know, has all the awards.

Because I don't believe, uh, and I've had this in LinkedIn, someone sent

me a, a message saying, Okay, we can help you grow your coaching business.

Uh, we do all of this stuff and we work with all of these massive companies.

And they started reeling off and I can't remember, but the started corporate.

And I got back to that, I'm not a corporate, so none of

that attracts me whatsoever.

Rather than someone saying, you know what?

We work with people who are really trying to find that work life balance.

They want to help as many people as possible, make a decent profit,

but at the same time not burn out.

And we will have a marketing strategy that might help work for you, I'm gonna,

I'm gonna ask more for more information.

So, yeah, I am mixing up a bit about the sales messages and the marketing message,

but what I'm trying to get there is the, this idea, like if you have a story

and not all of our stories are helpful.

But if we can work out those stories and present them as part of our personal

brand, as we stand for this, this is our perspective, this is what we believe in.

there's value in that.

And that can affect or should, and I'll say you, that should impact your pricing?

Mm-Hmm.

Could.

Could.

Impact your pricing.

Mm, does?

Does well.

And it, and I think the other aspect of this is like, it all

always depends on the customer.

It's all dependent on their perception and us and the stuff that you can't

change, which is their own relationship to money, their own perceptions and beliefs.

But the stuff that you can.

IE control is like, have you expressed the story well?

Mm-Hmm.

Is it clear enough what you do and why it's important to them and how it works?

And this is, you know, even beyond the con before the conversations

that we talk about that you should have with the client.

But how do you talk about what you do and why you do it in as clear a way as

possible for people to get you, and then understand why that price is acceptable.

Yeah.

The thing you've come up with me, because of course the, the questions

which your prospects are always asking themselves and needing to answer

is, you know, why would they buy the thing that you, that you do, you have,

that you offer, that you provide?

And then critically, but why would they buy from you?

Uh, and so, because of course there's very few things which, you know,

anybody kind of listening, anybody on the course, nobody is really

providing anything sort of, well, very unlike that, uh, people are providing

something which is totally unique.

Is there something which is totally unique?

And if it is something which is totally unique, is it really

clear who would buy that thing?

So there's this to take assumption the thing that you do is a thing which a

number of other people are also providing.

So then the question is why are they buying that from you?

And then the story that you kind of have you own, you understand about

yourself and where that kind of meets and connects with, uh, with

your prospects is really important.

I think what you are talking about there, getting kind of familiar with

that and understanding the value of that to help sort of drive your own

value is an important link, uh, to make.

Yeah, and I think, I think what, where I was trying to get to with this question

about what's the value of your personal brand and how it affects your pricing

is to help anyone who's like, who feels like there's nowhere else to go with,

try to work out, communicate the value of my work because they feel like I'm

just doing the same as everyone else.

And it's like there's, they feel like a commodity, I think

is what I'm gonna express.

And, and I was trying to work out, you know, find a definition of a

commodity, but it's like when all units of production are identical,

regardless of who produces them.

This whole I, and particularly I think I would say people in the service sector,

whether you are doing design work or coaching work, 'cause oh yeah, I'm

just doing the same as everyone else.

And so, you know, why would they choose me?

And so trying to help someone in that space to find out how, you know,

how do I define myself as unique?

I think this really goes to, you know, really understanding what it is that

people are buying because, you know, like, like we say, I think it would

be kind of easy to feel like, oh, I am my, you know, it's coaching, it's I

make websites, it's design, whatever.

Oh, there's a million fucking versions of this, I'm not any kind of

different, you know, the, the onus, the task, the responsibility is on

you to understand your difference.

Because there doesn't need to be a difference because if you are not able

or willing to do that work, to understand difference and to imagine difference is

maybe also where it sort of starts, to imagine the kind of difference, if you're

not willing or able to do that, then it is gonna be tremendously difficult.

And this is not just about pricing, this is about marketing.

This is about selling.

This is about the viability of your work, you know, the onus is on us,

the producer, the creator, the doer to understand, to find a point of connection

which does talk to something different.

And I think this, this, you know, one of the, one of the ways to.

Explore this.

One of the places we've explored this is by better understanding

what people will buy.

And actually, I have this in mind a little bit because one of

my, uh, one of my clients is in this sort of space a little bit.

I was doing some work just helping them around with, with

positions they make websites.

And, um, so, you know, there's kind of, you know, the, the kind

of sector splits you can make.

Oh, we only work with these kind of companies doing this kind of thing.

Or we work with companies which are at this sort of point on a journey.

You know, maybe that their clients, you know, my client's clients, maybe they

have raised some money so there might be sort of specific things around that.

But also then when you, the thing that I was doing with them, if you

get into actually, well, let's just, let's just explore a little bit

who actually these people are in these companies who are buying it.

And you know, then you find that there are commonalities.

Commonalities around who that type of person is.

And then you start to get into understanding the point that we're

talking about before, is actually what is it that people are buying?

And like, you know, the thing that, so my client was then realizing as you get

into this, the thing that their clients are actually buying is this kind of

feeling actually, that they are kind of brave enough to do things a little

bit against the kind of stream, you know, to go their own way a little bit.

They're brave enough to want to sort of stand out a little bit.

You know, that they, they have a feeling that the thing that they're

interested in, the stories they want to tell are a bit more kind of culture

and a bit more kind of educated, have a bit more kind of depth to it.

And so then you start to understand, well, what is it actually the

service that you are providing?

Sure.

You are providing websites, but really, is that what you are providing?

Or are you providing your clients, my client's clients, are you

providing them the opportunity to be seen, to be that person who's

willing to go against the stream?

Who's willing to think a bit harder, you know, to, to kind of think a

little bit more deeply as opposed to going for the easy option?

You start to get into some of these more, the characteristics and some of

the kind of intangible things actually, that we would talk about on the.

On the pricing course that is, is about what their motivations are.

Because everybody buys something because they're trying to change something.

And it's not really about the what of what you do.

The what of what you do is in service of another change.

And that change exists in me as the client, as the prospect.

You know that it's me who wants that change.

And it might be a personal change, it might be a professional change,

it might be an organizational change, it might be a commercial, a

financial change, any of these things.

It might be a mix of all of those things.

And the more that we understand what those things are, the better we can understand

actually what people are buying from us.

And then even, you know, so that is ultimately what people are buying and the

more we understand that, the better able we are to kind of start to confidently

stand behind a point of difference confidently, then by extension confidently

stand behind, likely an increased value.

Uh, but it all comes back to this.

What actually are people buying?

What change are people buying?

What is it that somebody is wanting to change that you are helping with?

That's ultimately the sort of shift.

And if part of, if your personal branding story, your, your personal kind of 50 odd

thing to go back to what you were talking about before, should be a re you know,

would, will likely be a reassurance to those people that you are, you are best

placed or well-placed to help them on that journey, their own journey of change.

Uh, and so I think, you know, I think this fear that I'm a commodity

actually, it, it is just a fear, right?

There is, there are many, many reasons why somebody would choose to buy you or

over other people, and sure the owners and responsibility is on you to get into that,

to explore that a little bit with people.

But there's many, many rea you know, whenever, almost whenever

we buy anything, we are buying the idea that that represents, and this

is true for a product as much as it is true for a, for a service.

Which why it is really important to understand the story because people are

buying, people are buying a story and either we've done the work to understand

what that story is or the person is buying is dreaming up their own story

that they are projecting onto us.

So you know much better to have done some work and to understand that a

little bit so we can control that because everybody is buying a story.

To some degree.

Either it's a story that we've done the work to imagine and to offer out there,

or it's a story they are deciding for themselves and projecting onto you.

I Like that.

This whole idea of controlling, I was gonna say controlling the story, but

being the, the narrative, the narrator.

\Yeah, right, yeah.

Of the story.

Yeah.

And where some customers may already have that story, they

understand that story for themselves.

And like, uh, hearing from you with this client is like their, their clients

wanting to be mavericks, I wanna say.

Mm-Hmm.

Just wanting to do some to be, to be on cutting edge and so to associate

with people who are cutting edge.

Mm-Hmm.

And looking for stories of people where they're talking

about their cutting edgeness.

And then this idea of, who am I to say I'm cutting edge?

How much have I explored my own stories of going against the grain, trying

something new, so to authentically be the person that these other people need.

'Cause I think where I want to get to as well with this is,

yes, we can see what people want.

What are they wanting?

What are they buying, actually buying?

And what solutions and good feelings are they buying?

And that's the good feelings are important.

The why.

But it's also how, why is that authentically my why?

And that's, I think a place where it feels less icky for some people, and this is

where I'm gonna link it to the personal brand because for some people this idea

of personal brand is quite triggering 'cause it's very influenced based and

this whole idea of social media culture.

But if we, the invitation I would say is like if we look into our stories,

our stories have changed and the things that we have explored, so that we can

create our own perspectives, our own unique perspectives, then that allows

us to say, all right, how does that connect to the why of these customers?

Why am I the person to talk about this stuff?

And that feels for me, part of this kind of authentically standing in this position

of like, yes, you will pay more for me because I really stand for this and that's

what you want, as opposed to, oh, you know what I, you know, I think you like that.

And I say, and I, I'm gonna kind of sugarcoat or even just assume an

identity that isn't really mine because I don't have anything to back it up

with any kind of lived experience.

What you're saying there is really interesting, and I appreciate, this is

not really the domain of this podcast, but I was, I was just reading the

new book by the psychologist, G Matee

Mm-Hmm.

Uh, and he has a big, a lot of stuff he writes about in there, which

actually links to the other books too, is about this thing around

authenticity versus attachment.

So to your point there is, is it something that I can

confidently sort of stand behind?

And one of the things that he's pointing to a little bit in that

kind of writing is actually we have a tension, a tension actually in all

of us, which runs really, really deep around this thing, around authenticity.

Because we of course, as humans have a kind of will to authenticity.

We have, you know, there are kind of parts of us that we are

willing and wanting to express.

We also have a will to attach.

And the thing that happens of course, is these things become in conflict

with each other a little bit.

Because you know, our will to be authentic contradicts sometimes oftentimes with,

say, what is required for attachment.

So expectations that we might, that may be placed on us by our culture, by

schooling, by family, whatever it may be.

And so this kind of tension exists a lot of the time.

That stops us really being able to, uh, to kind of express ourselves authentically.

And that, that was, I don't know.

You know, like I said, this is, it kind of becomes a much kind of

bigger topic, but this idea, you know, who am I to have that story?

Is this the right thing or is there a story I should be telling?

Because it is right for people, now clearly, you know, what we want to

be talking about is the story which is authentically right for you, the

story which is yours, the story which does reflect your experience and

the confidence to stand behind that.

And then to accept, I guess the point being, you know, yes, you could

arbitrarily or imagine some kind of story that you think is right for people, but

is that really going to be a, a worthwhile thing to do or, or be right for you to do?

Kind of much better in a sense, isn't it too?

Kind of to understand your own story, that's your authentic offering, and to

trust and understand that there will then be others who, for whom that resonates.

And those are the people, those are the opportunities potentially.

Where there is the, you know, there, there is the opportunity for good work.

And in a sense, what we're doing here is kind of meta, because we are, you

know, what we try and teach is pricing.

And we are verging onto all of these different topics around pricing

that we're passionate about, because that's the stuff that interests us.

So in a sense, we want to work with people who have similar interests or

are interested in more deeper aspects around this idea of pricing well and

making money, because it's also about the meaningful aspect of it, the

purposeful aspect of it, and the, the kind of the thought provoking aspects of

business and our journeys through life.

So in a sense, what we're trying to demonstrate is like we're trying to pull

out our own stories and our own beliefs around this and, and the things that we

interests us to then hopefully connect with other people who are similarly

driven or have similar interests.

So I, I like that.

I think one thing I wanted to end on.

And this is, um, I dunno, I like to confuse matters because,

Because, Because we're good at that.

Very interesting.

And the thing I wanted to touch on was, I, I, you know, stories are

great and for people who find like, oh my God, but how do I tell an

authentic story and, you know, how am I, is my story gonna be relevant?

The thing I wanted to offer is like, stories don't al aren't

always a hundred percent true.

Mm-Hmm.

There's.

Two reasons.

One, because if they were a hundred percent true, most

of the time they're boring.

Mm-Hmm.

if it, if you tell everything, all the details of what happened to you

in your life, it will get boring.

So you pick out the key elements that give a sense of drama and energy.

And the other thing was, what I remember, and I can't remember which

book it was, I think it, I dunno if it's thinking fast and slow.

It was around behavioral economics.

And this idea, there's the remembering self, and the experiencing self,

and they don't necessarily tie up.

Mm-Hmm.

Yeah.

How we remember something isn't necessarily how we experience it.

And part of that remembering part for me is how we create

meaning from our experiences.

Mm-Hmm.

Yeah.

And that's in the end, what we're trying to do is we are gonna try to connect

our meaning to other people's meaning to send that sense of connection.

Yeah.

I just on, on that.

So I think the words that came to mind as you're describing the

first bit is creative license.

Uh, and, uh, I think it's not even then the, the invitation not just to

make things up, it can equally just be taking what were the facts as

remembered and understanding how do you put those things together in a way

that best serves the goal of story.

So it's, you know, yes, of course you could, if you wanted to completely

make up a random se, you know, a whole series of things which do whatever.

That's not what we're really talking about, and that's not even what,

what you are talking about, I think.

Even just taking the components of what you understand to be your story and

putting them together in a way that has structure, where the narrative flows,

which it does invite people to a place at the end where you want 'em to be, that's

as much about, yes, some creative license.

But how you construct and how you put all of that together in

the most compelling way possible.

And just to go a little bit deeper, there's this whole phrase,

the stories we tell ourselves.

Mm-Hmm.

And how we retell those stories.

And one of the aspects that we, we tackle a little bit in the

pricing cost is our money stories.

So there are stories we tell ourselves around money which

aren't necessarily true.

Mm-Hmm.

And so how we look at those stories again, and then make more sense,

meaning from them so that we are more consciously able to move forward?

Not based on these, not necessarily, yeah, we're essentially made up stories.

Mm-Hmm.

Of like, oh, we can't have this, we can't do that because of X because of y.

Mm-Hmm.

You know, this whole storytelling thing, while you, you, there may

be a bit of creative license.

It is in service of positive change.

Mm-Hmm.

And I believe if it's in service of positive change,

then there's, it is okay to, to.

Make shit up.

Embellish the truth, exactly.

And that is how all world religions came about.

On that controversial note, we've gone a bit around the houses, but

there is something here about, for me, personal brand being connected

to the stories that we wanna share with the world about ourselves.

Mm-Hmm.

And how people wanna be associated to those stories, and how then that

not only differentiates you, but also can be an expression of your value.

Mm-Hmm.

The, the meditation teacher, Tara Brock, has a really nice phrase,

which is more talking about thoughts, which of course, the same things

around sort of stories really.

The difference between something being real but not necessarily being true.

Uh, and 'cause what you're saying that the thought, the story might be real, that

we're telling ourselves that, but that it is real, doesn't in itself make it true.

Just as a way of kind of reinforcing that point around the difference between

something is real, iE it is existing in my head, in my mind, in my body,

wherever, but that does not make it true.

Awesome.

So, um, nothing is true.

Nothing's true.

This isn't true.

We were not here, actually.

None of this actually happened.

So until next time, if there is a real next time, uh, yeah, enjoy.

Uh, well.

Enjoy nothing.

Enjoy what?

Enjoy nothing.

Yeah.

Enjoy all the stories that end up in nothing.

Take care.

Bye.