Heather Shannon (00:01.807)

Hello, my friends. We are here with an amazing guest episode today. And this episode is going to help you get to know yourself better as a sexual human being and therefore learn how to communicate and access your own sexual desire on a completely other level, more effective, more impactful, more connected. And to help us with this, we have

artist, scientist, and educator, Laura Allen. So welcome, Laura. Thank you for being here.

Laura Alyn (00:34.018)

Thank you so much for having me.

Heather Shannon (00:35.821)

Yeah, I'm excited. So your work is interesting because it's combining so many different angles. And I'm so excited to kind of apply this to sexuality, which the book that you wrote that we're going to be talking about, tell people the name of the book and then we'll get into things.

Laura Alyn (00:54.424)

Yeah, so it's a thousand different questions to embrace your sexuality. And it's questions and activities actually. And these questions really just came from a place of exploring my own sexuality. I grew up feeling really ashamed of anything sex related. I couldn't even talk about it. So like past me being on a show like this, I could never have imagined.

Heather Shannon (01:13.957)

Thank

Heather Shannon (01:21.451)

I think that's a little bit of my journey too, where I felt so more embarrassed and fearful around sex.

you know, lot of people that I work with now, there's still a little bit of like a squeamish aspect or something that feels like a little uncomfy to them, where it's hard to view themselves as a sexual person. So I'm so appreciative of you coming on and just like sharing your journey and sharing these questions. I'm kind of excited to get into some of the questions. Also, I'm like a thousand? That's a lot of questions. How'd you even come up with a thousand?

Laura Alyn (01:55.182)

So what I did is I broke it up into different categories. So I have like a this or that category or would you rather category. And so from there, then that's when the questions just started coming up. And so the main question that I kept coming back to was why? Why do I feel this way? And how can I go deeper into myself? And so from there, then all of the other questions kind of stemmed from that.

Heather Shannon (02:19.053)

So cool. Did you, like, from doing this process of the thousand questions, like, how did you feel before and how did you feel after?

Laura Alyn (02:29.516)

Yeah, so like I was saying before, I was so ashamed because like they say like once you get married, like now it's okay. It's okay to have sex, but they have that switch just because I signed a piece of paper was so hard for me. And I'm like, why do I feel weird? Like this is okay. Like it's safe. You're fine. Like everything's good. But I just kept feeling this like weird thing. And so I really had to go into like my own programming and like, okay, like what was installed in me and how do I uninstall it?

Heather Shannon (02:38.628)

Thank

I know.

Heather Shannon (02:57.102)

Yeah.

Laura Alyn (02:57.13)

And that actually got me to really think about like, how do we know things and why do we believe the things that we believe? And what do I actually believe about sex, about education, about all these different things? And yeah, it just started this whole journey.

Heather Shannon (03:09.369)

Yeah!

love that. So seems like your thing really is like self-inquiry. And I think you mentioned you have a bunch of other books too. And there are a lot of like guided journaling. So it's kind of all supporting people with this self-inquiry process. Yeah, that's so cool. So are you willing to share some of the questions with us in the book? And I know you said they kind of go from maybe a little bit more like gentle or general to getting a little bit more raunchy and specific towards the end.

Laura Alyn (03:23.69)

Exactly.

Laura Alyn (03:39.278)

Yeah, so at the beginning, it's really just as a starting point, like where are you at? How do you feel about sex in general? And then like then giving ideas like, okay, like how would you would you feel about this? Because sometimes in the moment when someone asks you like, Oh, would you be down to try this? You don't have time to think you don't have time to say like, Oh, like, would I want to do that? I don't know. So if you think about it beforehand, then in the moment, because people don't want to stop and

and stop in that moment because then it's like a turn off or it gets awkward. Yeah, like, like, let me think about this analytically. Let me go through this, all this whole process. Like, it's not really, it's not in the moment. So to do it beforehand, now you can actually sit with your own feeling with your body and really listen to what would your body want to try? What would your body not be willing to do ever? So then when the question does come up in the bedroom, you...

Heather Shannon (04:08.409)

Yeah. I you were going kill the mood. Yeah.

Heather Shannon (04:15.46)

Yeah

Laura Alyn (04:34.434)

you already have an answer ready. You don't have to go through this self-inquiry. Or then you don't have to do something because in the moment you think it might be good and then later on, feel like you regret it.

Heather Shannon (04:44.637)

Yeah, that makes sense. And there's something about writing like that. So many of us resist writing. I know a lot of people like, I don't want to have to write it down. But there is something about writing that cements things in your head, right? And it kind of helps you process them. Can you see like, I'm sure you know a lot about that. Like, can you say more about that? Like why that process is important?

Laura Alyn (05:04.481)

Definitely. So when we are, when our thoughts, our thoughts are kind of like, like cars racing on a freeway where they're so fast and sometimes we get stuck in one and it's so fast that you can't really like you're stuck in the door or stuck in the car, you're trying to open the door. And so then we get stuck in like all of these loops of bad thoughts. But when you're writing, you pick one lane and you stay in your lane and you just allow everything that's all of the cars that are coming in that lane instead of being stuck in one car, you're stuck in the lane.

Heather Shannon (05:12.069)

Thank

Heather Shannon (05:16.996)

Yeah.

Laura Alyn (05:33.58)

But then you're able to find this avenue. I kind of see it like plant roots, where you're going down one route and seeing how far can you go deep, down into yourself. And the cool thing is that the deeper that I've gone, the more questions have come up, the more that has come. So I kept thinking, OK, once I'm done learning about myself, then I can start this other thing. And I'm like, OK, I'm never going to stop learning about myself, so I better get started.

Heather Shannon (06:02.021)

things where I feel like I've been on a personal growth path for so long. And there are moments, I'm sure a lot of my clients, lot of our listeners have done some coaching, have done some therapy, obviously listen to podcasts, read books, are into personal development. And it can definitely get to a point where you're like, am I done yet? Can I be done? Am I healed? Can I check that box? It's like, no, sorry. It's got to keep going forever.

Laura Alyn (06:26.796)

But yeah, well, actually what I found was that once we zone in on our actual desires, then we can build a life around there. So then it feels like it's natural. like the work doesn't feel like work. just feels like, I'm just on the phone with a friend or like a new friend to get into more. So that's how I've really like rewired my brain so that now work doesn't feel like this uphill battle or like this rat race that I used to be a part of for so long.

to now living life more slowly and more intimately with yourself. And then that has also then gone into intimate moments with my husband. So because the deeper I go into myself, the more open I can be to be with my husband.

Heather Shannon (07:12.613)

That's amazing. So how long did it take you to do these thousand plus sex questions?

Laura Alyn (07:18.648)

They were like rapid fire. Like I think I got the idea probably like late February and the book was published April 29th. So like that was the editing process. That was everything. They were just coming. Once I opened the door, was like Pandora's box. Once I opened the door, they all just came flooding through.

Heather Shannon (07:20.633)

Really?

Heather Shannon (07:37.317)

That's amazing! mean, because then not only are you writing this book, but you had to answer them yourself! Wow, okay.

Laura Alyn (07:42.394)

Mm-hmm, and I still do I still go back in and flip through the book and read let's think about it Okay, like what what do I feel now because the person that I was before like I mentioned like before I was so closed off I was I very resistant to to it and now I feel like I'm more comfortable in my body and so I'm able to allow like the comfort with

Heather Shannon (08:06.639)

So do you feel like your own sex life has improved as a result of doing this process? OK. That's exciting. Do think your husband would agree?

Laura Alyn (08:10.658)

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah, I think so too, because with him, he had to be really patient with me because I was really resistant to pleasure. so if it felt too good, I would freak out. I would close up and like, OK, I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. And so he had to be really patient with me and to help me. Or sometimes with the questions, I would answer for myself, like, oh, I wonder what he thinks about this. And then I'd go ask him. And he's been a good sport about answering all my questions.

Heather Shannon (08:19.961)

Yeah.

Heather Shannon (08:42.341)

That's so cool!

because it sounds I think when we have like a book or a quiz or a list of questions, something that's like a third party source, it kind of neutralizes the topic of sex and then it's like, oh, we're kind of just like playing this game and it like lightens it up a little bit instead of like, um, um, have feelings about our sex life and I'm scared to talk about it, you know, and, but we have to, you know, and then it's like, can feel like pressure and anxiety. And so I love this as just sort of like a lighter way.

Like you said, it gradually deepens over time, but it's just like a nice structured way to get to know yourself and your partner. So, good job.

Laura Alyn (09:24.908)

Yeah, definitely. And so you could do it like writing a journal and doing it by yourself and going from number one all the way to a thousand, or you could just flip through it and play with your partner, with a group of friends, just to see other people's preferences. Yeah.

Heather Shannon (09:34.041)

Yeah.

Heather Shannon (09:40.036)

You don't have to go in order at all. Yeah. Okay. And then there's, there might be a few other perfectionists listening to this episode. But you know, there's a part of me that's like, I have to be so thorough in every answer. I'll never get through a thousand. Like, can you just have really short answers or like one word answers to a lot of them or like, yeah.

Laura Alyn (10:00.352)

yeah, some of them are, this or that section for instance. One is, the only thing for me to mind is.

Heather Shannon (10:11.653)

Let's do some this or that. Ask me some this or that. That sounds fun. Okay, we're pulling up this or that section. everyone listening, you can kind of play along in your own brain. I'm still going to encourage you to get the book and write them down because I do think the writing process is very important. But yeah.

Laura Alyn (10:15.958)

Okay, yeah. Let me...

Laura Alyn (10:31.502)

Let me just.

Heather Shannon (10:34.351)

We can just cut this part out a little bit.

Laura Alyn (10:39.212)

I should have had it ready, but I had to look it up.

Heather Shannon (10:42.681)

Okay.

Heather Shannon (10:56.173)

Ahem.

Laura Alyn (10:58.232)

So just like speed round or you're going to answer or? OK.

Heather Shannon (11:00.49)

Speed round, yeah.

Laura Alyn (11:04.842)

Eye contact or touch first? Taking the lead or being guided? Mystery or clarity? Words or silence? One. Was that?

Heather Shannon (11:09.157)

What was the answer that time? We have to go. Can we do one at a time?

Heather Shannon (11:16.559)

Can you hear me okay? yeah, was just saying, can we do one at a time? Because I don't think it's gonna help people to just like go through them without having a pause to answer them. Okay, so let's just do one at time and then maybe we can like discuss briefly. Okay.

Laura Alyn (11:18.338)

Yeah, I can hear you. Can you hear me?

Laura Alyn (11:25.611)

Okay.

Laura Alyn (11:30.838)

Okay, so the first one was playful teasing or deep connection.

Heather Shannon (11:38.414)

I would say playful teasing first and then deep connection after. What do you think?

Laura Alyn (11:44.672)

I think that the playful teasing can lead to deeper connection.

Heather Shannon (11:48.471)

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Okay, all right.

Laura Alyn (11:50.666)

Yeah, so, but some people want to have like the intense deep connection first that they won't even go into something unless they have that deep connection. So that's like where that question originated from.

Heather Shannon (12:02.213)

Oh, that's a great insight. This is a really great way to learn about your partner. All right, what comes next?

Laura Alyn (12:07.118)

Eye contact or touch first?

Heather Shannon (12:13.189)

I like eye contact. Your microphone is making a little extra noise too. I if you're like touching the mic or the wire. Use FYI. I think when you were leaning forward, yeah, just when you were leaning forward, I think you were touching it maybe. Okay, say that one again.

Laura Alyn (12:23.286)

Is that better?

Laura Alyn (12:30.51)

Is eye contact or, I'm gonna say that again. Eye contact or touch first?

Heather Shannon (12:38.063)

say eye contact because I feel like that can help with building anticipation. What do you think?

Laura Alyn (12:43.63)

So I like touch first because that kind of like gets me into the mood and then the eye contact like cements it.

Heather Shannon (12:46.369)

Heather Shannon (12:50.895)

That makes sense. I love how everyone kind of has a different pathway towards getting into their sexual energy a little bit more. And so this is fun to uncover this. OK, what's next?

Laura Alyn (13:00.046)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and the cool part too is that even though it's a this or that, so you would think like you only have two options, but the how to get to that option, like the reason behind that option is different for everybody.

Heather Shannon (13:12.089)

Yeah. Yes. That's so true. Even if you have the same answer, it's worth discussing. Yeah.

Laura Alyn (13:18.039)

Mm-hmm.

Words or silence?

Heather Shannon (13:26.169)

the tough.

But I also often like silence. I think it depends on the mood for me. What do you think?

Laura Alyn (13:35.352)

So getting a little into astrology, I'm a Gemini Mars. And so Gemini is the sign of communication. And so I need to talk. I need to like dirty talk or I need to say something. There needs to be some kind of words because in silence, I get two in my head. Like, everything OK?

Heather Shannon (13:54.406)

Let's see that. Sometimes I think like the dirty talk kind of like enhances and really helps me get into a head space that's more sexual. But then there's other times where I'm like, I'm already there. Don't say anything. Let's just have it be like steamy and passionate. Let our bodies do the talking, you know?

Laura Alyn (14:08.662)

Yeah, that's a good point too.

Heather Shannon (14:11.045)

Yeah. So that's so fun. I really love this as a tool. I might actually have to buy a few copies and give them to my clients. So OK. So then we start with some of that stuff, a little lighter stuff, some this or that. I think the this or that format is just so wonderful for getting people started on this and just fun. And then where do you take people on this journey of 1,000 questions?

Laura Alyn (14:39.874)

Yeah, so towards the end, it starts to get a lot more raunchy. It starts to incorporate different acts or different toys or different things that's deep in it or BDSM or things like that to go deeper into different kinks. Because I think that if we're too ashamed to even explore our kinks, because I think everybody has a kink, it's just...

digging deep to find it? Okay.

Heather Shannon (15:08.697)

Totally. Yes. Yeah. And I think, you know, how many layers of repression are on top of the kink? So someone could listen, they might be like, no, I don't. I'm so vanilla. And it's like, you're probably not entirely. I think that there's a book called Tell Me What You Want by Justin Leigh Miller. And it did a study of like 4,000 people and their different sexual.

Laura Alyn (15:17.684)

Exactly.

Heather Shannon (15:32.273)

fantasies and things that were like their biggest turn-ons and I think it was like 96 % of people had something that was like BDSM related at some point in their life. So I feel like even just knowing that it's like, okay, stop being weird about it, please.

Laura Alyn (15:47.946)

Exactly! And that's literally what I to tell my own self, like stop being weird about it, like you're fine.

Heather Shannon (15:53.668)

Yeah, that's great. I love that you like pushed yourself out of your comfort zone. It seems like this is also a great tool for that. Like if if somebody is feeling kind of like repressed or squeenish to just use this as a tool to to feel more comfortable.

Laura Alyn (16:06.914)

Yeah, exactly. that's why, like, in the title, I have Embrace Your Sexuality, because we all have it, so we have to stop pretending that we're not sexual beings, because we are. So it's about embracing it and embodying it so that your body feels safe in the act.

Heather Shannon (16:20.953)

Yeah, that's really interesting. Can you say more about that? Because I think that's so important, and that's part of my nine-step pathway to passion that I take couples through is physical and emotional safety. So how do you feel like these questions would actually lead people to a greater sense of safety, to be vulnerable?

Laura Alyn (16:37.528)

So this is, can I answer in a tangent way? Because so I'm getting my PhD in education right now. And so I'm really focusing on all of the ways that we know. And what I did is I looked at it through the soul, mind, body and spirit. So I read thousands of pages of texts from all over the world, from all different timelines, timelines, time periods.

Heather Shannon (16:40.965)

Tell me who you want to answer it. Yeah.

Heather Shannon (16:46.757)

Hmm?

Laura Alyn (17:07.47)

And everybody talked about the soul differently than they talked about the spirit, than talked about the mind and the body. And these are only the four that came up. And so I did like a deep dive and all of that. And what I found is that the body is responsible for perception and it's responsible for being like being an ego, like being by itself versus coming with everybody else. Whereas the soul,

Heather Shannon (17:33.285)

Okay.

Laura Alyn (17:35.7)

It's like, Carl Jung would talk about it, like the sea and where our soul is just like one cup of that water. So we're all just, we're all part of the same water. So like the soul, but our body, we each have our own individual body that yes, it's part of nature, it's part of earth, but our body is like a house and for our soul that lives within it. And our soul needs to...

Heather Shannon (17:43.939)

Yeah?

Heather Shannon (17:57.806)

Okay.

Laura Alyn (18:02.318)

like communicate with our body, but a lot of times our minds just take over and it's like, no, you have to do this because this is what you've been taught. This is what society has told you. And so then your body gets shut down a lot of the time. that's where like the, literally fat is just, or not always, but sometimes it could just be trauma that you haven't processed yet. So your body's holding onto it until you feel safe to process it. So by answering these questions, it's very soul related.

Heather Shannon (18:10.499)

Yeah.

Laura Alyn (18:30.904)

So that then your mind can be able to talk about it so that now it's out in the open, something that could be murky. And some people would even say gross in this space. Now with your mind giving direct answers and actually being able to analyze it, it's bringing it to light where now you don't have to be afraid of it anymore. So then now that drops into the body, like, okay, something that my body feels and desires.

Heather Shannon (18:53.007)

Mm-hmm.

Laura Alyn (19:00.738)

that I used to call gross, now when I'm changing it, now this is something that is good, this is something that is pleasurable, this is something that is safe. Now you can step into your body and really get into what you actually desire and then be able to communicate it so that you can satisfy your needs.

Heather Shannon (19:08.163)

Yeah.

Heather Shannon (19:18.947)

I love that how it's like, so it's kind of a process of connecting the different like layers of who we are.

Laura Alyn (19:25.726)

Exactly. Yeah.

Heather Shannon (19:27.853)

Yeah, that's very, very cool. And I agree with what you said, too. I'm a big fan of Eckhart Tolle, and he talks about we're all waves of the ocean. The wave is sort of the surface level, like maybe the body, like you're saying, or even the mind. But we want to kind of connect with that deeper ocean part of ourselves, too, or essence of ourselves, really. But I also do internal family systems coaching.

Laura Alyn (19:53.133)

Exemplary.

Heather Shannon (19:57.614)

And I think that that's also made it clear to me how the body is sort of the perception and the ego. And, like you said, the house for the soul. But those are sort of what we would call our parts.

in IFS. They're not our self energy, which is more of that deeper ocean level. yeah, I think it's cool how just different experts and models kind of all point in the same direction. I think it's always worth noticing when several different things are pointing in the same direction. So yeah, I love that. So it's like we're not shaming the body. We're not. And actually, I'm curious. Do you feel like sexual desire typically comes from the body or comes from the mind? From like what?

Laura Alyn (20:24.128)

Exactly.

Heather Shannon (20:44.113)

your research has told you. Yeah.

Laura Alyn (20:45.966)

It's the body. the body will, something will bubble up and then it's how the mind interprets it. So even like with food, like your mind, I mean, your body could be saying like, I need calcium, but then your mind thinks like, oh, you want ice cream? Okay. So.

Heather Shannon (20:52.835)

Mm-hmm.

Heather Shannon (20:58.181)

You're like, that is my preferred form of calcium. So great.

Laura Alyn (21:05.038)

So the same thing goes with the sexual energy. Like your body's like, hey, I have this need. And then your mind's like, no, that's gross. So you're not getting that. And then your body's like, OK. And then it just starts hiding more and more each time.

Heather Shannon (21:18.947)

Yeah, that makes sense. It kind of explains some of the shutdown. Because I do think people can get to a place in their sex life where, like, I have felt rejected, or I have felt discouraged, or even getting to a place of feeling hopeless, that they're going to have the sexual relationship that they want. And then they can just kind of shut it down. And it's like, where did that desire go? Because.

I don't know that the body just stops, but maybe the mind is kind of squashing it.

Laura Alyn (21:51.148)

Yeah, so it's like a little kid that if you keep saying no, no, no, no, the little kid's gonna stop asking for it. And the same thing, like any kind of body desire, so like hunger or like thirsty or like here with sex, like after a while your body's gonna stop asking. So then it's up to you, the mind, to ask it. Like, okay, well, what do you need? I'm ready to listen, I'm ready to give you what you need. And then sometimes you don't feel anything, you don't...

Heather Shannon (21:55.747)

Yeah. Right.

Laura Alyn (22:20.526)

Get any answers but then by keep by if you keep building this trust with your body and any time that it does like even to go to the bathroom Sometimes we say like, let me finish this really fast and then we'll go to the bathroom. So like little things like that Yeah, every time like you

Heather Shannon (22:29.797)

Yeah!

I know!

I've noticed that. Yeah, I think that this is why feel like hustle culture is so harmful because so much of it is overriding your body signals. It's like, you want movement? No, you're going to be glued to your desk. You just have to work. You're hungry? Well, you're just going to have to shove something down your mouth and not digest properly. Or you're tired? Too bad. You have to keep working. It's kind of terrible.

Laura Alyn (23:05.664)

Mm-hmm. And I think for the longest time, like with sex, it was like, this is a treat. So it can only be at night or on the weekends. And it's like breaking that down too. Like at any time, like if we feel like going at it at 10 a.m., we can go at it at 10 a.m. or like whatever. So I think like really breaking down those barriers has really improved.

Heather Shannon (23:06.766)

You know?

Heather Shannon (23:14.317)

Uh-huh.

Heather Shannon (23:20.402)

Yeah!

Heather Shannon (23:27.799)

I mean, this is amazing because you just kind of came up with your own process and it worked. You know, you're just like, hey, this is an area I'm not super comfortable with. Let me just, you know, do some self inquiry. And I'm also curious, like, what do you think attracted you so much to self inquiry and doing it in a written form? Like, where did that interest come from?

Laura Alyn (23:34.391)

Yeah.

Laura Alyn (23:50.708)

from marrying my husband. Yeah, because nobody supported the marriage. And my whole life, I was a people pleaser. So I got straight A's. I went to college. I got I did everything right. But then when my husband came into the picture, we got engaged four months after meeting. So it freaked out both sides of the family. Like it was it was bad for a long time. Now we're going to be six years married in March. So now everything's OK.

Heather Shannon (23:52.575)

really?

Heather Shannon (23:56.901)

Heather Shannon (24:03.043)

Yeah. Yeah.

Heather Shannon (24:18.415)

Okay.

Laura Alyn (24:19.256)

But that led me down this whole rabbit hole of, my gosh, I've been a people pleaser my entire life. Like, what do I actually care about? What do I actually believe? Like, who am I? Like, I completely lost my sense of self. Like, well, the only thing that I know is true is that I love my husband. That's the only thing that I know. So from there, let me go deeper into myself. Like, what else do I know that is true for me? Not because my parents taught me or because school taught me or because the church taught me. Like, what do I believe is true? And...

Heather Shannon (24:44.602)

Mm-hmm.

Laura Alyn (24:48.674)

then from there, what I was talking about earlier, all of that comes from my framework. So it's called the Ornelian framework and the link is on the screen right here. So it's the Ornelian.com slash framework. And that's like where it goes deep into every single part of what I was talking about. But yeah, it all started from there. And so the framework now is looking at different ways of knowing. And by looking at something, like even something like random,

Heather Shannon (25:01.177)

Okay.

Laura Alyn (25:18.286)

like would say like blow jobs is what came to mind right now. So if you look at it like ways of knowing through each of the different sides then you can really understand like what your partner needs in that moment to be able to maximize pleasure and so you can use it in that but you could also use it to study plants you know like I don't know like you could use it to use anything.

Heather Shannon (25:24.069)

Mm-hmm.

Heather Shannon (25:43.686)

So when you say looking at all sides of a blowjob, is that going back to like the body, mind, Okay. So let's apply that to a blowjob. Like what would the body, mind, and soul levels look like? And also, I think you had also said spirit. So how are you distinguishing spirit and soul?

Laura Alyn (25:49.418)

Exactly.

Yeah.

Laura Alyn (26:02.606)

Yeah, so soul is something that, like I was saying with the water, like something that's inside. So when you talk about like your heart or like you people like to touch your ear, like that's moved my soul. So it's like heart energy, something that's inside versus spirit is like your vibe, your aura. Like when two people vibe together, it's that their spirits are like doing this like entangled dance kind of. Yeah, so that's spirit. And it's also like how you can

Heather Shannon (26:10.404)

Yeah.

Heather Shannon (26:23.535)

I love the...

Laura Alyn (26:31.758)

Specifically with sex, your spirits are the ones that are coming together. And through the eye contact, that's how your souls are connecting. Through speech, that's how your minds are connecting. Because my mind just cannot shut up. So then sometimes I'd ask my husband, well, what am supposed to think about right now? He's like, not supposed to think about anything. Just enjoy the moment.

Heather Shannon (26:49.124)

Heather Shannon (26:54.72)

Hahaha!

Heather Shannon (26:58.789)

do think, you know, yeah, people who are people pleasers, which is a huge percentage of the population, honestly, huge.

Yeah, we can forget to ask ourselves those questions. And I think that's a big part of what I try to help my clients with as well is just start asking yourself the questions. Because people feel some anxiety sometimes that they don't have the answers. Or I'll have people do an intimacy assessment when they first start working with me. And sometimes people have been like, I kind of can't even face the questions because I don't have the answers. How do you get past that? The anxiety of not having the answers

the feeling that you should have them to even start this process of self-inquiry.

Laura Alyn (27:45.964)

Yeah, thank you so much for that question, because it just goes back to the framework that I was talking about. So there's 16 different ways. so your mind might not know, but you could ask your body, you could ask your spirit, you could ask your soul. And then each of the 16 different ones, there's so many layers to it, where there's questions there too, that you can go deeper into it through the questions. And so it's not like a...

Heather Shannon (27:47.813)

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, great.

Laura Alyn (28:11.052)

Like here's like a magic bullet, here are all the answers. It's more of like, here's where to start, here's a map so that you can go deeper into yourself so that you can learn about these different things.

Heather Shannon (28:22.981)

That's amazing. Yeah, think one of the things one of my therapist supervisors told me when I was becoming certified as a sex therapist was sometimes your clients will say, I don't know. And she was like, but they know. So that's one of the things I'll do is like, OK, but if you had to guess, what would you say? And then people usually answer that. And I find that so interesting. So maybe it's coming from a different part.

Laura Alyn (28:49.186)

I think that with that it's more of a shame though because with that it's like, like, I don't know how they're going to react if I say this. when you say it, well, if you had to guess, then it gives like, it takes off some of the pressure.

Heather Shannon (28:53.261)

Yeah.

Heather Shannon (29:04.581)

Yes, yes, because I mean pressure comes up all the time. I had that come up in a client session this morning. Oh yeah, I still hear you. Do you hear me?

Laura Alyn (29:09.432)

Can you still hear me?

Heather Shannon (29:15.545)

Yeah, I hear you. No?

Laura Alyn (29:18.764)

Yeah, I hear you.

Heather Shannon (29:20.707)

OK. OK, yeah, you froze. That's just a normal thing that happens. Usually, I just keep talking through that with Riverside, and the recording comes out fine. So let me just make a note of what time it is so I can cut this part out, too. Yeah, so if that happens again, just keep talking. It's fine, unless it goes away for a while. But if I get a little frozen for a few seconds, that's normal. OK, so where were we?

Laura Alyn (29:21.612)

Okay, you froze, so that was, yeah. Okay, we're good.

Laura Alyn (29:30.634)

okay.

Laura Alyn (29:52.174)

But not knowing the I don't knows because yeah, some part of you knows.

Heather Shannon (29:55.635)

I think you were saying the customer. Yeah. Yes, right. Some part of you knows.

So maybe it's coming from a different part. Maybe you start out with the mind, and the mind is like, I don't know. And then it's like, but your body knows. And that's something that I do with the internal family systems, too, is kind of anchor it in people's body and their physical sensations so they can kind of make those connections. Is that included? Is some sort of body awareness part of the self-inquiry that you do?

Laura Alyn (30:09.678)

Mm-hmm.

Laura Alyn (30:29.1)

Yeah, yeah, so that's called number two, like the little box, the number two box, and it's empirical knowing. So it's just collecting data. So when someone rejects you, it's not that it's a rejection, it's just collecting data. So like maybe if I asked in a different way, they would see it differently. And so it's just collecting data for your body. So like the sensations when you feel touch, how does your body respond? When they touch you here, how does your body respond? And yeah, just really anchoring it in the body.

Heather Shannon (30:38.042)

Thank you.

Heather Shannon (30:59.309)

So fun. So I guess I'm curious, what would you say to people who don't feel like they know themselves very well sexually and maybe like, or even their partners? We'll start with the person who's maybe not in touch with their desire. What would you say to that person? And then what would you say to the partner of somebody who has lower desire or just not very aware of their desire?

Laura Alyn (31:29.624)

So I would say for actually both that have the same answer, look at, start at the complaining. What is your partner complaining about or what do you find yourself complaining about? And even if it's not sex related, like by looking at the desires, what I've noticed, maybe it's just me, I don't know, but what I've noticed is that a lot of times it boils down to some kind of deeply rooted sexual desire that you were just too afraid to voice.

Heather Shannon (31:39.618)

Yeah!

Heather Shannon (31:58.022)

Can you, can you like give an example of that and where it starts with complaining but there's actually a deep desire under there?

Laura Alyn (32:02.574)

you

Laura Alyn (32:11.086)

No, no, no, no, something's not, nothing's popping up in my head right now, but let me... okay, yeah, please.

Heather Shannon (32:17.071)

I mean, I can give you a common complaint. Yeah. So I'm trying to think of common. So common complaints from couples that I see might be, I don't like the way my partner tries to initiate. Maybe they're just trying to make out with me right away and I'm not even in the mood yet. Or they're just not great at figuring out the right place and the right time.

Laura Alyn (32:45.614)

Perfect, so the not placing the right time, that is up with the mind. And so it would be a box number. So it's all related to astrology too. So people, when I say astrology, people say like, oh, then it's like not credible. But that's why I spent so much time making sure that like it was through this academic process of my dissertation to incorporate both of them. And just as a thing with astrology.

I do believe in astrology. I don't think it's something you believe in or don't believe in. You're affected regardless. You just don't know about it. But with astrology, it's a Capricorn. So number 10 is Capricorn. And that's really going deep into what you think that your responsibilities are and your duties are. And so if the person's not initiating, then they don't think that it's their job. They think that it's the other person's job. And so that's worth having a conversation over.

when would you want me to initiate or when is it my turn because you're not gonna take accountability for something if you don't even see it as your responsibility.

Heather Shannon (33:50.84)

Yeah, that's actually very interesting. And that is something I run into with couples too, where it's easy to kind of point the finger and be like, wow, the reason I feel like this is because you're doing blah, blah, blah. And people are not necessarily always like that.

Heather Shannon (34:07.468)

Go ahead.

Laura Alyn (34:13.516)

Yeah, and so talking about like the soul and the mind, like you couldn't, I couldn't, you can't separate them because everything's so interconnected. So like the best that can do is the different parts. So it'd be like the body of the mind is responsibility. So it's like your body and your mind have to work together to know when it's your responsibility to do something. And it could be sexual or not, like cleaning the dishes, like is it my responsibility? Is it your responsibility?

Heather Shannon (34:40.473)

Yeah.

Laura Alyn (34:40.558)

But so like really being clear about who's responsible for what like really has helped.

Heather Shannon (34:46.393)

Yeah, that's amazing. do your books, does this book in particular with the thousand sex questions include some like Ornelian framework overview too so people will kind of understand that aspect?

Laura Alyn (34:59.598)

The book doesn't have anything with the Arnelian framework. Yeah, the Arnelian framework's really new. But the questions do, that was like the beginning of it. So like from this book, from doing this journey of asking these questions, that was like the foundation of the Arnelian framework. So in a way they're related, but I wouldn't say that I wrote about it.

Heather Shannon (35:02.904)

Okay.

Heather Shannon (35:24.439)

Okay, so people can still find out about the framework at theornalian.com. So we'll link to that one as well in the show. Okay, very cool. Because it does sound like they're kind of interwoven in a way.

Laura Alyn (35:30.86)

Yeah, yeah, it's all up there.

Heather Shannon (35:39.528)

Well, yeah, this is really great. What else do feel like people should know if they're kind of in this process of wanting to get to know themselves better as a sexual being, wanting better communication, wanting a better sex life? What do you feel like they need to know?

Laura Alyn (35:56.098)

Yeah, it's about going deep into yourself. Like I've been saying this whole time. So I guess it's really asking about that why, well, like, what, what is your body feeling? Like, what, what does it need? Like a lot of times too, it's that connection to what I was saying earlier about the ego. Like we think because we're in our own body that no one understands us. No one has been through what we've been through. And so it feels really isolating and alone, but a lot of times the body's desire is that connection. And so using it.

Heather Shannon (36:01.262)

Yeah.

Heather Shannon (36:12.249)

Mm-hmm.

Heather Shannon (36:23.853)

Mm-hmm.

Laura Alyn (36:26.026)

intimacy through sex, but then also finding different ways of intimacy around sex to get closer to your partner. And so to go deeper into yourself and asking the why question, like, well, why, why do I want this connection? Like, why, why do I want to feel this way? Or then even just touching yourself, like not in an understand like a silent sexual way, but touching your leg, like how does your body react to that? And from there,

Heather Shannon (36:50.405)

Hmm.

Laura Alyn (36:52.002)

Like just really incorporating the different sides of self. So like that would be for body. The mind would be the questions in this book. And then your spirit is what makes you feel alive? Like what makes you feel excited to go into having sex? Like what are your turn-ons? yeah, just what lights you up.

Heather Shannon (37:11.809)

are kind of getting at the issue from all angles, right? So it's like if one avenue doesn't feel very open to you or feels kind of blocked or stuck, you can always try one of the other ones.

Laura Alyn (37:24.852)

Exactly. Yeah. So I think before like we were just like on this conveyor path or a conveyor belt where it's just a singular path. And if it doesn't work for you too bad, suck it up. And now we're in this space, especially after COVID, I realized that a lot of people are becoming more open minded to exploring these different paths and different paths, like through career or through relationships or, even just with the self. And so, yeah, I think it's a great way to.

Heather Shannon (37:31.363)

Love it.

Heather Shannon (37:36.313)

Yeah.

Laura Alyn (37:53.848)

to explore yourself and to make life more of an adventure and say, okay, now I'm gonna try this and try that because a lot of times, this is what happened with us, we were just stuck to the same three positions because that's what felt good and we didn't really expand on that. So that's what the book helped too. Like, we've never tried this before, maybe we should try it or maybe no, no, I'm not okay with that, I'm never gonna try that.

Heather Shannon (38:06.103)

See? They're not all that bad.

Heather Shannon (38:18.167)

Yeah, yeah. But at least you're having the discussion, you know, and it seems like by aging in it, I'm guessing you're no longer only having the three sex positions. Yeah, I love that. Well, thank you so much for just sharing your wisdom and your journey and your book. So just again, tell us the name of the book and where people can connect with you if they're wanting more Laura in their lives.

Laura Alyn (38:21.56)

Mm-hmm.

Laura Alyn (38:27.444)

Exactly.

Laura Alyn (38:44.206)

Yeah, so the book is A Thousand Questions and Activities to Embrace Your Sexuality. And you can find it on Amazon. If you're part of the Kindle program, it's free, so you can just go look at it there. And then you can also find me at It's Laura Lin on Instagram. But you can find everything that I've talked about today all at the Yarnelian.com. And that's where I have everything, all the different projects that I'm working on, my podcasts.

My books, my art, everything's on there.

Heather Shannon (39:15.205)

Okay, cool.

you're just a multi-passionate person and you're kind of like finding ways to bring all of that together. I think that's important to kind of have people who see the big picture and bring it together. So thank you so much for being here with us and thank you everybody for listening. Go check out Laura's book and we will catch you next week on another episode of Ask a Sex Therapist. Bye everybody.

Laura Alyn (39:25.347)

Yeah.