E058 - How to Spot a Narcissist: Walk Away From Red Flags & Date Without Fear With Angela Davis
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In this episode, you will discover how to instantly spot a narcissist red flags while you're dating so that you never get caught into the narcissistic cycle again. And you can date without fear.
Speaker: Welcome to Heartbreak to Wholeness, the podcast helping you heal from the mindfuck of narcissistic relationships and move towards the secure, peaceful woman you want to become. I am your host, Bre Wolta, Relationship Clarity Coach and EFT Certified Practitioner. Let's dive in.
Welcome to this episode, we are talking today about all things, narcissists and red flags and dating and fear so that you can feel really confident as you venture back into even the idea of dating again. So in this episode, you will learn the number one sign of what to look out for. If you're dating somebody who is narcissistic or emotionally unavailable, you will understand the two most successful ways to navigate your fear of dating.
And you'll get the tips that you need to [00:01:00] feel confident in walking away from red flags early. So you don't spend years and years with somebody who is not good for you.
This conversation is amazing. I speak with a woman named Angela Davis. She's a therapist, and she works specifically with women who are wanting to date again.
After these narcissistic relationships. And I really feeling paralyzed by the fear. I know you're going to love it. Can't wait for you to hear it and be sure to stick around to the end of the episode, where I will pull an Oracle card that will offer you a specific message that you can use to stay anchored and conscious in your healing this week.
Speaker 7: Welcome to the show, Angela. I'm so happy to have you here. Thank you, Bre. It's great to be here this morning.
yes, yes. I was just scrolling through Instagram. I don't know how we got connected. Some, someone liked someone's post or shared something, and I work with so many women on ~sort of ~that real acute stage of coming out of these types of unhealthy relationships and doing the healing work [00:02:00] around what got them there in the first place.
And kind of the origin root of that. But there's still so much fear after we've done . It's like, well, how am I ever going to go back into ~like ~dating life ~and, ~and trust myself, trust my intuition, trust the red flags. So it sparked something in me when I saw your page. I'm like, I need to have Angela on here and help listeners learn how to do these things.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah. I think when you said, ~you know, ~learning to trust yourself, that's big because when we come out of these relationships, ~there is, ~there's this hunger for knowledge. Like I remember the first time my therapist got out her DSM and opened it up to narcissistic personality disorder.
And I had that aha moment and had all those feelings. I think a lot of times we don't acknowledge, all we see is the anger, but we don't acknowledge that there's this sadness. And ~this ~disappointment, all this hope that we held out for this [00:03:00] person is gone. ~Um, and so there's, ~you have all this knowledge, but then you have this history of how you actually behave, and it doesn't quite match up.
And so learning to trust yourself and how did I miss this, you know, there's that period of time that knowledge is really necessary to delve into and find out more. of what happened. It's super validating to understand what you went through.
Speaker 7: Absolutely. The way that I have organized my coaching programs include things that I didn't have right off the bat because I got really stuck in ~that, ~that absorption of information.
I'm like, I just need to learn all about narcissism and learn about heartbreak and ~learn about ~betrayal. And then I'll be fine. I'll be better. I'll be healed, which in reality, we have to learn it. And then we have to feel our way through it. ~So ~that second component is huge and is something ~that ~I focus on a lot with my clients because we aren't taught ~really ~how to feel those feelings in a safe [00:04:00] way as we're regulating our nervous system.
~And ~that's the way ~through ~to healing. ~So ~gathering the information is always step one. We have to know what we're working with. We have to have clarity around that ~in order ~to ~then ~dive ~a bit ~deeper into What am I feeling? Where did this come from? And in my childhood, where is this familiar? So it's a both and thing.
One is not better than the other.
Speaker 6: ~Definitely. Definitely. ~A couple of things come to mind, ~you know, um, ~I think being in one of these relationships, ~you ~You don't always notice at first what's happening to your inner knowing, but it starts ~to, ~to be focused outside of you. So you walk into the room with this person and, ~you know, ~suddenly there's a shift in your body that's oriented towards What they want, what they need, how can I protect myself, ~you know, by, ~by changing their mood, ~um, ~that sort of thing.
So you learn how to ~kind of ~turn off what's inside of you, and ~the, ~the other part of that is that [00:05:00] in order to fully have ~your, ~your feelings, ~um, ~you need the thinking part, you need to be able to name what is happening for you, but then there's, ~there's a, ~a body activation ~that ~that we often learn to ignore, ~you know, ~even going through our day in a normal situation, a lot of times we have to put those feelings and those body sensations somewhere else so that we can handle our lives.
But, um, when you are processing pain, it's really important, ~uh, ~You can feel those sensations inside your body that come up as a result of the grief or the sadness or the anger.
Speaker 7: Yeah, absolutely. Well, if you are walking into a room in hypervigilance, ~right? You're, ~you're aware, you're scanning, you're making sure that you are safe. There's not time. for assessing how you feel about the situation because you're in a survival state, ~right? You're in ~a very activated state. And when we live in that for weeks, [00:06:00] months, years with people, that's a very unhealthy activation of our nervous system.
So we have to find some regulation in order to find safety in the body in order for ~the, ~the body to be like, okay, ~it's a, it's, ~It's all right to explore now. We're safe enough to do some exploration, but to come out of these relationships, there's ~a little bit of a, like ~a period of time where we have to get used to what it's like to not be on full alert all of the time, which can feel really foreign if that's become our familiar place.
Speaker 6: ~ Definitely. ~Definitely. And ~I think, ~I think part of that is. ~Um, you know, you kind of have to, I think, I think ~going through that, that intellectualization phase of like seeking all the knowledge and stuff is in a sense, a way for your nervous system to rest because you've been going through so much for so long.
~Um, ~Yeah. It just takes time to reorder things and get it all back together.
Speaker 7: ~Absolutely. ~But with the message that there is hope that your intuition can come back online when you're not in [00:07:00] such a survival state. I think that's the takeaway from ~that, ~that piece there. So let's talk a little bit about what narcissism is.
And when you're starting to date someone, what are some signs ~that we can, or ~that listeners can look for to be like, ~That's, ~that's not feeling right or that's a red flag ~for me. ~
Speaker 6: Well, ~I'm a, I'm a big fan, you know, a lot of, ~I'm a big fan of knowing yourself first, because a lot of times you can have lists of all the red flags and you can walk right into that ~and, ~and completely ignore it.
You know, there's a million memes on the internet about how ~just ~completely rational, logical, intelligent women will ~just. ~ignore all those red flags. So again, it's important to have this knowledge, but you have to put it into practice. And one of the ways that I encourage people to put that into practice is to tune in, to get really good at tuning into what is happening in your body.
~You know, ~even if there's a conversation that feels [00:08:00] off, ~then ~instead of suppressing ~your ~Your thoughts or feelings about it ~to, you know, ~say something, ~um, ~to somebody or just noticing, ~um, ~I know that there, there's a lot of kind of cliche behaviors that, that are put out there for narcissists. Like they don't tip the waiter or they can be rude to the service staff.
~Um, ~I think ~it's. ~It can be a lot more subtle than that, especially since there are different types of narcissists, right? So, ~um, ~yeah, being able to check in with how you feel. Do you like this person? Is this person somebody that you can respect and admire and emulate? Do they have compassion? Do do they have basic empathy skills?
~Um, and then the other thing about that is ~Some narcissists, not all, ~um, ~will love bomb. And of course, I don't think there is a planet on which love bombing does not feel good to somebody. And [00:09:00] I think sometimes it's okay to ride that wave and maybe sit back and, ~uh, ~Enjoy what you can, but do not get ~your, ~your heart attached to that until you have really been able to see how does this person deal with anger?
~How, um, you know, ~how do they support you emotionally or financially or, ~you know, ~otherwise? ~Um, ~what kind of friend can they be? The other thing about love bombing is that covert narcissist. I think this is This is really hard to see. Covert narcissists do not buy the flowers. They don't take you on ~the ~trips.
~They don't, ~they don't. give you all the compliments and shower you ~with, ~with praise and affection. They are the quieter ones that, that their love bombing is. They, they seem to have suppressed for years and then finally they're able to open up to you. ~So, so ~those glimpses of vulnerability where you sense that this [00:10:00] person is just in such Pain and is so vulnerable and tender all the time that they really don't tell anybody else.
And that makes you feel special, like, Oh, they will tell me. ~Um, that's ~so it's kind of a twisted way of love bombing, ~um, so, ~
Speaker 7: ~Yeah, ~I love that advice of paying attention to how you feel, because especially if you've been in these types of relationships before, you have a little bit of a blueprint in your body of like, what, what does it feel like when somebody's actions aren't meeting their words or what does it feel like when you walk into a room and there's this underlying anxiety eggshells, but they're smiling at you?
What does it feel like, ~you know, ~when they're twisting a conversation ~when you, ~when you know your reality to be one way. So we have ~this, ~this knowing in our body. And ~again, ~we have to just tune into that part. We have to give ourselves space and ~have, ~have a space separate from the relationship where we can ~like ~decompress the nervous system completely.[00:11:00]
So my advice to, to women in that the beginning stage of love bombing feels good and it can feel similar to the beginning of a normal relationship, ~right? ~When you're just kind of ~like ~all about each other and spending a lot of time together, but if it's feeling like too much too soon, that's a very specific Feeling that we have in our body.
Like we get the text message about, you know, I've been searching for you my whole life. I love you so much. I think we should talk about moving in together after being together two weeks. There's a part of us that's like, Whoa, ~like ~that feels good to receive, but like, Whoa, on some level. ~Right. ~So paying attention just to what are your initial reactions.
And if there's any part of you that's questioning. something. There's information there.
Speaker 6: Absolutely. And I think ~that ~that could ~actually ~be the basis for some of the control issues that come up with narcissists because, ~um, part of, ~part of having consent [00:12:00] in any part of a relationship, ~um, is, ~is being able to, ~um, ~disagree or have your own opinion without having any kind ~of, ~of covert or overt threat of retaliation or punishment or, you know, like you're going to be iced out if you disagree with this or don't do this.
~Um, so ~if you even have any kind of tone or sense that that is a dynamic that's being set up for you, then you don't have consent in the relationship. You don't have an equal partnership. That is starting to develop.
Speaker 7: Yeah. And some of this takes some time to be able to see. ~So ~I remember ~even, ~even before ~narcissists ~narcissism was ~even ~on my radar, ~um, ~a therapist of mine was like,
it's good to spend at least the four seasons with somebody before you make any financial commitments, or marriage [00:13:00] commitments, or any sort of committing to the person further. Because there's, first you see how they act within each of the seasons. A lot can happen with jobs, with family, and then with your dynamic, you come out of that natural honeymoon phase.
~So ~what starts happening when you're not so consumed with just that euphoria of the beginning,
Speaker 6: whether
Speaker 7: it's love bombing or not, but how do conversations go to your point when you have to start setting your boundaries or when you start speaking your needs? Are you met with resistance or do you feel ~a lot of ~fear?
And so that's all, those are all things to gather as data and then unpack because some of those reactions could be from a past relationship where you were with a narcissist ~and ~we have to remind ourselves like, I'm with this person now, I'm not with my ex anymore. ~And ~sometimes that's, ~that's kind of ~residual trauma from ~the ~past relationships, but sometimes that's just the dynamic in the relationship.
~So, ~so much [00:14:00] awareness has to go into ~yourself, ~self awareness, and within the dynamic that you guys are creating with time. How do things unpack or, or, ~um, ~like bloom over time? And is that feeling good? Like continuously checking in with yourself of how is this feeling now? Because I know for me, when I was in the love bombing situation.
~Again, ~I didn't know what that was when I was in it, but I had already committed my loyalty to this person, and I had already decided that, ~like, ~relationships are just hard, we're gonna work through whatever, and, ~like, ~he's gonna be the one I marry, ~that was just, like, So, yeah. I don't know. I, I, ~I bonded very quickly ~out of, ~out of manipulation and all the things that happened during love bombing, but I didn't keep checking in with myself of like, okay, how does it feel now that every conversation that we have ends in fighting or ends in ~it being me, ~it being my fault.
How do I feel about the relationship now? What do I [00:15:00] need now? There wasn't that. It was just like, well, it must be my fault because he's telling me it's my fault and I didn't have the self worth or perhaps I had the self worth, but it had been chipped away because of these interactions with him. So we have to really hold ourselves accountable for that.
~A, ~being aware of our stuff going into relationships, so we know where we're a little bit more fragile, and being able to hold ourselves accountable to check in with ourselves continuously.
Speaker 6: Yeah, definitely. ~Um, and I think, ~I mean, so much of what you said resonated, ~um, you know, having those ~Making those connections to past relationships and those threads and then just realizing that it takes time.
A lot of times you'll read about ~the, ~the frog ~and the, you know, ~In the pot of water, you know, and the water gets turned up gradually. Then pretty soon the frog is like, Oh my gosh, I'm [00:16:00] boiling, ~you know, ~and the frog is done for, ~um, ~you don't want to be the frog of course. ~Um, and for, ~and for me, ~my, ~my journey was a little bit different in that.
One of the things I didn't realize until later in life was that I had issues ~from, from childhood, ~from childhood trauma. ~And that, ~that my relationship blueprints were ~just ~completely whacked. ~And, and ~in order for my nervous system to feel safe, I had to do two things. First ~of all, I had to, um, ~I had to find my way to safety, like out of that familiarity ~of ~of hypervigilance and always being anxious and not knowing when the shoe is going to drop ~and all of that, um, ~to being okay with having a calm nervous system.
And then the next part was making sure that my relationships were contributing to a sense of peace. in my life, in my nervous system, in, ~you know, ~every area. ~So, ~peaceful relationships, I think, are, ~uh, ~[00:17:00] highly underrated. And by peaceful, I don't mean they're free of conflict, because conflict can lead you to peace.
But peaceful as in, I'm not worried that this person is going to leave me suddenly or betray me suddenly. ~You know, like, ~I believe that I can trust them and ~have their back. Or ~they have my back. I have their back, that sort of thing. So,
Speaker 7: Yeah. I talk about the difference between healthy relationships and unhealthy ~relationships ~or toxic relationships ~as, ~as being on a continuum, like most things, but a healthy relationship is where the baseline of the relationship.
The time, most of the time, you feel safe, there's good communication, you can trust that person, you feel secure, right? And then you have moments of conflict, you have moments of confusion, but the baseline is safety and security. Right. Versus an unhealthy relationship where the baseline is ~anxiety.~
Hopelessness. Confusion. Anxiety. ~Or I already said anxiety. Um, ~that's the baseline. And then you have moments of [00:18:00] feeling loved. You have moments of connection. So, identifying for yourself like where am I spending the most time? ~Which, ~which energy am I in the majority of the time? Because one leads to a regulated nervous system and one does not.
So when we are in relationship, the goal is not to. ~it ~be perfect all the time or not to have any conflict. The goal is to have conflict, have disagreement and then come back into safety. It's that rupture and ~that ~repair cycle. And similar with our own nervous system, right? We get activated and then we can come back into neutral.
And that's the way our nervous system is designed. It's not designed to stay on all of the time. We just need to get better at recognizing when we are in situations with people where we feel like we have to go into protect mode or go into fawn mode.
Speaker 6: ~Right. Absolutely. ~Absolutely. And so unpacking all of those things [00:19:00] that we've done to be in survival, ~um, ~I know for me, part of healing has been just not knowing what it was like to be out of that or what it felt like or looked like, ~you know, ~and that's where I needed help.
from therapists and coaches to help me see that ~there's, ~there's another way to do this. ~Like you don't have to, and that, that ~you don't have to live in that, that state all the time, that there is a peaceful baseline that you can come to. ~And that, um, ~There's a resolution. I think one of the reasons ~that ~you live in hypervigilance and anxiety and keep repeating these cycles is because you're used to not having a resolution.
~You, ~you start to adopt these beliefs about yourself. Once you've had so many experiences like this, ~that, ~that are the same, ~you know, a lot of, a lot of people, will say, you know, well, my picker is broken or I'm just doomed to be in these relationships, but ~you get used to not having a sense of resolution, which ~will, ~will give you the belief that you're flawed.
You're not good enough. You're not worthy of [00:20:00] love. Like you were talking about chipping away at your self esteem. ~I mean, ~those are going to take away your self esteem completely. ~When, when, uh, You know, ~the realization that you, wait a minute, I am worthy. ~You know, ~I do have something to contribute to this world.
I don't deserve to be treated like this. ~You know, ~I can say no to this. I can move on and find another way. ~I don't have, ~I don't have to live like this.
Speaker 7: And that takes a lot of mindfulness and healing around our own. How we're, how we're treating ourselves. What is that relationship like with ourselves? Do we really believe deep down that we don't deserve love because of something from our childhood or because ~we've, ~it's been told to us several times in our adulthood, ~right?~
Are we waiting for someone else to come and choose us, but we're never taking the time to choose ourselves. ~It's, it, ~a lot of these relationships can mirror ~sort of the, ~the parts in ourselves that we. are avoiding, or the parts that we haven't yet identified or [00:21:00] healed. Because if I'm coming into a relationship with the solid belief that I deserve respect and honesty, I'm not going to stick around if somebody is lying or cheating.
There's not going to be a second chance. There's not going to be a, Oh, I feel bad for you because you're so stressed ~doing ~at work or whatever the excuse is. It's like, no, no, I, I respect myself enough to hold this as a non negotiable. So ~that work, ~that confidence work has to happen in order for us to even speak a boundary in the first place.
Because if we don't believe that we deserve that, or if we believe that we're just here to serve everybody else, or we have to do that in order to not rock the boat, then that's the behavior we're going to have in the relationship.
Speaker 6: Right. Absolutely. ~And, and in that, ~in those situations we're actually playing a role.
It might be a role that we learned in childhood. It might be a role that we learned from one of these relationships that [00:22:00] we adopted to serve. And what ends up happening is that we're actually stunting our emotional growth ~when we, ~when we claim our worthiness and our ability to show up in the world as who we are without fear of recrimination, ~then, um, ~we are gaining maturity.
And. Once we're, once we have that emotional maturity, we grow confidence in ourselves that we're able to handle whatever comes our way. ~And we can, ~we can handle letting go of somebody that we really liked, but is truly disappointing us. ~You know, ~we can handle, ~um, ~having those hard conversations with someone and kind of testing them to see if, ~you know, ~When you bring a need or a feeling or a desire, ~you know, are they gonna, ~are they gonna leave?
And if they do, you can handle that, ~you know, ~because you deserve somebody that is going to talk through adult things with you.
Speaker 7: You know that you're growing when you are doing things that feel really unfamiliar [00:23:00] and really uncomfortable. And I love the metaphor of ~like ~a snake shedding its skin to illustrate this because after the snake sheds the skin, there's a period of time where it's really tender, ~right?~
And it's moving over these rocks and pebbles and things feel much more intense because they haven't yet grown into their new skin. So that limbo space of, Letting go of our patterns and then gaining new patterns that feel familiar. There's this period where everything feels unfamiliar and uncomfortable and unbearable.
And we're like, I just want to go back to people pleasing, like that would be so much easier than having to set this boundary. But that is, that is the growth moving through that discomfort until the point where the new. Pattern becomes the familiar pattern. And then we've created a new neural pathway.
And that's the one that we practice over and over. And then our old pattern can drop away. So it's like, it's [00:24:00] maintaining through that, that shitty face. ~It's like, ~we all want to run back to what we know. If you can stay strong and, ~and re ~be building your confidence at the same time. That's the key ~to, ~to continuing to move forward.
Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely. ~And, ~and I love that metaphor of snakes shedding their skin. ~And it's so interesting because ~in my last dysfunctional relationship, when I was coming out of that, I had so many dreams about ~snakes and it was, it was just so interesting ~snakes and letting go ~and snakes ~and having closure.
~And I, I mean, ~it was really wild, ~but I. ~I'm ~totally, ~totally on board with all of that.
Speaker 7: It's part of it. Yeah. So for listeners who are starting to think about dating, one piece of advice is to listen to what you feel, right?
What are you feeling in your body? To start to do some of that deeper exploration. Are there any other tips that you have for women who ~Who, I don't know, ~are just entering this phase or just starting to think about [00:25:00] and really sit with the fear that they're having.
Speaker 6: Absolutely. Well, you know, ~fear, ~fear is something that is there for protection.
~And ~in order to address ~the, ~the fear, you don't want to just say go away fear. The fear is there for a reason. ~And ~Being afraid of men really depends on your experience. ~Like, ~when I look at my own childhood experience, I'll be open about this, the men in my family ~were not ~We're not very good. There was a lot of violence, ~you know, ~so ~that, ~that was my pattern and blueprint for men.
So I came out of my childhood already having a fear of men and for good reason. ~Um, ~however, I also had this part of me that wanted to connect with men that really loved men that, ~um, ~kept finding ~these, ~these men that were creative, sensitive souls. And I just. Love that. And it was really healing for me to, ~to, uh, ~meet men ~who were, ~who were gentle and [00:26:00] tender and who held to the same standards of love.
And that in my ideal heart ~that I had, um, ~I still had trouble ~with the, ~with the other guys, but ~you know, that's, ~that's our journey, right. ~And learning, um, ~ ~um, this has been ~a big thing for me is ~to be, ~to be able to forgive myself for those choices that I made and that person, because I think~ I think that, uh, you know, uh, ~everything serves you. Even the negative experiences serve you because you're teaching yourself how to come out of that negative experience without carrying a boatload of shame, with learning to forgive yourself, And with learning the lesson that you needed to learn, ~because you might not have learned the lesson from before.~
So that's one piece of advice is really do that work to, ~to, uh, ~connect the threads of the past with the present, present, and then, you know, forgiving yourself for the past choices that you made. The next thing is a lot of times, These relationships and negative experiences take [00:27:00] away our ability to imagine the goodness that can happen to us.
And I know it's cliche to write a list of what you want in a partner, but really imagining that and then feeling what it feels like to have somebody that has affection, ~to ~somebody ~that, ~that texts you daily and wants to know ~how, ~how things are going, ~to ~somebody that wants to spend time with you, who wants to work through a problem, who is checking in with you emotionally, ~um, ~who wants to support you in your life and in your dreams.
And just sit with that. If you're still uncomfortable ~with that, ~with genuine love and ~with the ~fear, then figure out what ~it is that ~you need to do to take care of yourself in that moment. Maybe you just need a break. ~You know, maybe you need, ~maybe you need ~a ~A casual person just to hang out with and ~to, to ~acclimate yourself to being with friendly men.
~Um, ~you know, ~you, ~there is no pressure to open [00:28:00] your heart until you are ready. However, if you are wanting a relationship, you do have to do that work to to work towards being open hearted. ~And ~if you want to experience yourself as a partner, ~then, you know, ~hold that vision, ~that imagination ~of what your partner would look like, what you will be doing in that partnership, and ~then ~how you ~guys ~can create a life together.
~Yeah. ~That is your aim.
Speaker 7: I love that. Two things that I want to touch on from what you just said. The first is the, when we do this healing work to connect the dots. Everything makes sense. Every decision makes sense. Every reaction makes sense. Every trigger makes sense because it's all coming from these maladaptive places that we've created, the maladaptive coping mechanisms.
And it all makes sense. So we can drop some of that shame. So having a good therapist or coach that can help you connect those dots is [00:29:00] vital, in my opinion. And the second thing is I want to share a personal story about what you just said about feeling the feeling of what you want. ~So ~coming out of my last toxic relationship, When I was starting to think about, like, I kind of want to get on the app, maybe I'm ready to date, ~um, ~and was still a little bit scared of ~what that, ~what that meant or who would come in or what they would be like or all the things, um, I made a list.
For sure, of like what I wanted in relationship, what were my non negotiables. But then, early in the morning, ~like ~right when my alarm would go off, I would lay with myself for like another five minutes and I would lay on my side and I would imagine being cuddled by ~like ~really warm safe, Energy. And in my mind, it was ~sort of ~like source energy ~or ~higher self energy or future partner energy.
I don't know what energy it was, but it let me tap into that real felt sense of what that would be like to roll over and be able to be held [00:30:00] in, in like genuine, genuinity. I don't think that's a word. Genuinely by someone else and feel that love. Because I had been so starved of that for ~the last five years, ~almost five years in that relationship.
~that ~I needed to remind myself what that could feel like. ~And, and ~with my now partner, that's a big part of ~our, ~our dynamic, that physical connection ~and that ~the cuddling ~and the, ~the safety ~that ~we can find, the co regulation that we can find with touch. And I'm like, I don't know, manifesting it, calling it in, whatever you, whatever you want to call it.
Like it, it came to be in a way that I never had experienced or thought possible with a man based on my past experiences.
Speaker 6: Oh, that's so beautiful. ~That's so beautiful. So that, ~so that visualizing worked for you, ~you know, ~because ~you were, that ~you changed your familiar. What was familiar to you? Yeah.
Speaker 7: Right.
Tapping into the feeling is different than just [00:31:00] reading the list. ~Again, it's a both and. ~We need the list to have awareness around things that we're thinking and feeling, but then we also need to feel what that experience is like. And that is, in my opinion, that energetic shift that helps us then be able to call that in and receive it.
Because if I haven't practiced what it's like to be held in that way, I might. If that's the type of person ~that I, ~that I attracted and they want to be very cuddling and ~very, ~very giving, but ~I'm used, ~I'm used to being the giver and I don't know how to receive. So I'm going to push that away. Right? So that's part of the self work of how can you show yourself ~that, ~That joy and that pleasure and open that receptivity for that to come in.
Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely. ~And giving, ~giving can be a protection too. You know, ~if ~a lot of times, ~it's the, ~it's that fawning person that we become like, Oh, if I'm not giving, then, ~uh, ~I'm going to be punished somehow. That fear of [00:32:00] punishment.
Speaker 7: Yeah, which the people pleasing can stem far back into our childhood, right?
And we're just replaying, we have that repetitive compulsion, ~trying to figure, ~trying to heal past wounds with our current ~You know, ~attachment figures. There's so much psychology around all of this and why we do what we do. And I know for me, ~knowing that, ~knowing that there's a reason was so tremendous and me again, dropping that shame and being able to see, oh, this is a part of me that was really wounded when I was four.
~Like, ~of course I'm acting like that in relationships because ~she's stuck. ~She's stuck in that belief. So like the importance of having a safe space holder is, is massive.
Speaker 6: ~Oh, it's so important. So important. That's how we, ~that's how we heal each other. We ~really ~need somebody ~to, you know, if we, ~if we have had an absence of a wise, compassionate witness in our life, ~you know, ~whether our parent let us down ~or, ~or past friends or lovers let us down, it's so healing when you get somebody.
~Who can, ~who can sit with your [00:33:00] pain like that and say, yeah, it's understandable that you acted this way. ~You know, ~pain will change you when you're in emotional pain ~and ~with somebody. who is not well emotionally, it will change you, you become a different person. And luckily, a lot of us are really wanting to change that and not be that person again.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's something I really want listeners to hold on to and ~to ~take away is that this is all just learning something new.
You're learning how to communicate, you're learning how to show yourself love, you're learning how to lean into the feeling of being held and receiving, and we're just learning something new because we've been practicing something else for a really long time. So ~to ~give yourself ~that. ~That ramp period of like, again, that really uncomfortable, I don't know how to do this yet.
This feels unfamiliar. And then it will become something that you know how [00:34:00] to do, and then it will become your new familiar. But that practice part ~is, ~is so important to give yourself compassion ~during ~during that phase and all the phases. Absolutely.
Speaker 6: ~Yeah. ~And practice is so important. I think ~a lot of, ~a lot of times people think that the insight ~is to work ~is the work, you know, when you get stuck there and like, Oh, I'm so insightful.
Okay. But what are you doing with this insight? You have to put it into practice so that you don't remain disconnected because having that insight, that's an intellectual thing, but your heart is over here. So Still doing. Whatever.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Not supposed to be doing like a runaway child. You know, you want to, you want to bring the wise parent and the runaway child together.
Yes. ~So, ~so that they can make these new choices and create new habits around relationships because ~that, you know, ~I believe very strongly that our relationships are a healing force for the world. ~You know, when, When we are, ~when we are [00:35:00] entering into that connection and those cycles of rupture and repair, ~um, ~and ~just ~the acceptance and joy ~that, ~that we can have and delight in each other, ~um, ~accepting each other's differences and celebrating them, ~you know, that's a, ~that's a beautiful place to be.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I can really resonate with ~that, ~that feeling of like, well, I'm going to therapy. Why is nothing changing? ~Right. ~Cause you're not doing anything in between the sessions. ~I, as a recovering perfectionist, also, ~I was like, I am nailing therapy. Like I'm so good in session. I'm so good at analyzing at understanding, but I was never taking it to the feeling place.
So I was staying stuck in that for a really long time. ~So ~I have ~just ~so much compassion for people ~who are. ~Who are in that same place of like, I'm nailing therapy, but it's not working. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 6: With repetition, it does get easier to be able to, to.
Feel what's happening in your body and express it in language. ~So when you, ~when you start to date [00:36:00] someone, ~they might not have that, you know, ~they might not be at the place where they have their emotions yet, ~and. ~That's definitely something to look out for and you can do little tests with people ~that are new to ~to see where they are ~in that ~in that experience ~because somebody can ~somebody who is dysfunctional will not have their emotions, will have no interest in having their emotions, will have, want to have nothing to do with your emotions.
Okay. So they are off the table. You do not want to go any farther with that person. However, there are some people that aren't really good at identifying and expressing their emotions, but they're kind about it, ~you know, ~and they want to learn about yours. They may not know, they may make some missteps.
~But, um, ~but they're not going to denigrate your emotions or criticize you for having emotions or somehow make it not okay for you to have emotions. ~Um, so ~you can start small ~by, uh, ~by asking Questions that are a little bit non threatening, [00:37:00] asking for their support. Like, Hey, my friend, I texted them two days ago and they haven't texted me back.
And I'm feeling really sad about it. I'm worried about my friend and then see how they respond. You know, if they respond in a dismissive way, ~then, you know, that's a. ~You have to put the yellow flag up immediately. It might turn to red very quickly, but, you know, and then do a few more tests that are a little bit deeper.
Hey, you know, ~uh, ~the other day, ~whenever, ~ I brought up my dog dying and you didn't seem ~to. ~To respond to that, ~you know, ~I'm wondering what that was about and see how they respond, you know, they said, well, my, my dog died.
I just couldn't talk about it ~in the, ~in the moment. And I'm so sorry that your dog died then. ~Okay, that's fine. ~If they're like, I don't want to hear about dogs dying, ~then okay, ~then you know what you're working with.
Speaker 7: ~Yeah, ~or just get over it already. Or ~don't be, ~don't be so emotional or so sensitive. ~Yeah, ~
Speaker 6: ~right.~
Speaker 7: ~Definitely, definitely comments to look out for, for sure. ~
Speaker 6: ~Yeah, absolutely. ~And a lot of times it's, I mean, ~those, ~it is that direct sometimes, but a lot of times it's not. It's just, again, that's where you have to tune into yourself because ~Again, ~for survival, if you've been in one of these [00:38:00] relationships, you've been in a training ground to take all of your wants, needs, and desires and crumple them up in a ~little, ~little ball like paper and just kind of hide it away under the couch or something.
~You know, ~it's like none of that stuff matters to them. And once you are on that training ground for a long period of time, you have to retrieve that and uncrumple it. ~And ~it's like, Oh, these are normal. ~You know, ~it's okay for me to have needs and wants and desires. ~You know, I'm a, ~I'm a devoted, loving partner.
Anybody would be lucky to have me in their life, ~so. ~
Speaker 7: I have a full self guided course called Find Yourself Again that walks people through how to find their values, ~and ~their needs, ~and ~their non negotiables, and their wants, ~because ~we can get very lost. ~In, ~especially when coming out of these relationships where it's like, I don't know, for the last four years, I've just been doing whatever they want, or I've just kind of morphed into whatever they need or ~what I, ~what I had to be to not rock the boat.[00:39:00]
So that course could be really helpful for listeners. If they're like, I don't know where to even start to create that list. I'll put the link in the show notes and there's a discount code for listeners, ~but I know, ~I know that's something ~that ~I needed at the time. coming out of that relationship, which is how I've designed all my things.
I'm like, I wish I would have had that. And ~so, ~so now I ~get ~have the privilege of creating that for women. Yeah. At the end of these episodes, I always pull an Oracle card. Are you familiar with Oracle cards? ~Yeah. ~Yeah. Okay. ~Um, ~and I like to have the guest help me choose the card on behalf of the listeners.
So if you're open to it, I'd love for you to just take a moment and close your eyes. ~And ~we're just going to tune into the deck, into the energy of the deck, and just asking what is the message that the listeners need to hear today? ~And ~I'm starting to shuffle. So whenever you feel like the shuffle is complete, ~you just ~let me know when to stop.
Okay, go ahead and stop. ~Okay. ~[00:40:00] Hindsight. ~So if you're not watching the video, ~it's a picture of a person with an eye on the back of their neck. ~And ~I'm going to find the message here in the book and then I will read it. Take a deep breath. Breathe it into your back body. What is it seeing? This is hindsight.
It comes to you as a perspective shift to remind you that what is behind you is as important as what is in front of you. A message from the divine, seer of past, present and future, reminds you that there is much to learn from the past, lessons to be embraced and celebrated, a treasured trove of knowledge and experience to inform your next steps.
You choose what you take and what you leave behind, while always honoring what was. Hindsight also requires you to be thoughtful and aware of what you are leaving in your wake. Is, or was, your impact what you intended it to be? In every moment, the decisions you make have forwards and backwards consequences.
Hindsight encourages you to gaze gently on the past, for you cannot change [00:41:00] it. Yet it reminds you that the awareness in back of you matters just as much as the awareness in front of you.
Speaker 6: ~Wow. ~Wow.
Speaker 7: Isn't that wild? Oh my gosh,
Speaker 6: Bre, you could not, I mean, ~that's, ~that's the spirit world working right there.
I mean, that's what we just talked about.
Speaker 7: ~I know, I know, I know. ~I never pre pull these cards and ~I, ~I had a vague, ~you know, ~idea of what we were gonna talk about today, but we always take tangents that I never. ~And ~Anticipate. So ~these, uh, yeah, ~it's really cool ~to, ~to bring in the Oracle cards ~to, ~to this work and into healing work too, for women to be able to pull a card every morning and ~like ~have a message come through.
I know that was really helpful in ~my, ~my journey.
Speaker 6: Yeah, completely. ~Yeah. ~
Speaker 7: Ah, well Angela, this is so cool. Thank you for coming. Thank you for giving us your time. Where can people find you if they want to learn more about what you're doing?
Speaker 6: ~Well, I'm still, I'm still forming things. If you want ~Follow Dating Through the DSM on Instagram for now.
I'm constructing a website. ~Um, ~I just got my licensure to be a licensed clinical social worker. ~So I, ~I have been working as a [00:42:00] therapist for two years and have been doing healing work for far longer than that in myself. ~Um, but yeah, ~Just stay tuned. Things are coming. ~I'm slow. ~
Speaker 7: ~Yeah. ~Instagram for now. Or are you on TikTok also?
Or is it mostly Instagram? Yeah.
Speaker 6: I'm on TikTok also. I'm dating through the DSM.
Speaker 7: Awesome. Well, I'll be sure ~to, ~to put that in the show notes so people ~can, ~can reference back. And just thank you. Thank you for your wisdom, your expertise, your knowledge, ~all the things. Um, ~I know these episodes touch many more people than we'll ever know.
So you can rest in that, that something you said today ~will, ~will spark something in someone somewhere. ~Um, and it's all worth it because of that. ~
Speaker 6: Well, thank you. And I appreciate the opportunity to learn from you as well, Bre. You're doing wonderful work out there. So ~thank you. ~
Speaker 7: Thank you.
Angela. And I covered a lot of ground today. So let's do a cookie little recap so that you can really let this information soak into your mind and body and soul. You learned today how to recognize the number one sign that you're dating someone who is narcissistic, how to [00:43:00] tune into your body, used your past experience to. Uh, learn to trust your spidey senses of what feels off and trusting what feels off. Number one sign is internal.
It's not an external red flag. From this episode, you also better understand those two most successful ways that you can navigate your fear of dating. If you're really feeling like paralyzed, you're looking at the dating pool and you're like, I don't know how to swim. I can't get in there.
I'll drowned. We really want you to focus on finding the lesson in the past experience. That's number one. And to imagine the feeling of your future relationship and what you want that to feel like really embodying that feeling. Both of those things are really going to help your fear as you move forward. And then in this episode, you also got some tips. On how to feel confident walking away from the red flags early. And knowing what signs to look for the [00:44:00] other external red flags that you can look for. And the importance of doing the work to build your confidence, to believe. That you deserve a relationship that makes you feel. Good that doesn't have the red flags that you don't have to settle for that you're not making excuses for our justifications around. You starting with your confidence is going to be number one.
Number one, number one, always number one. If you enjoyed this episode, I want you to go back to episode 56. It's called the incredible mindset change that will help you break free from narcissistic relationships cycles. That episode, I speak with a woman named Cheryl Brockie, and we talk so much about confidence. And how to really build that self-respect and that self esteem. So that you aren't staying in these cycles. Of settling with people who are not good for you because you deserve so much more.
I know that with a hundred percent certainty. [00:45:00] So as always, this podcast is for you. You are not alone, and I will see you in the next episode.