Charlie and Sophie's Great Escape.

Thanks, Ferrielle, for appearing on the Adventures in the Heart of Children's Book Authors podcast.

Ferial has written a children's book, Charlie and Sophie's Great Escape, and I really look forward to our conversation for a number of reasons.

Before we get into the details of your book, Ferriel, can you tell us a little bit about what being a children's book author means to you?

This is based on a true story, and it's based on our two border collie puppies, Charlie and Sophie.

We adopted them from a rescue, and it meant a lot to us to be able to give two puppies who basically had been given up by their previous owners, chance at a better life.

And so to bring their story.

And they were puppies just for their absolute zest for life and learning and exploring was just a daily inspiration.

They made me smile or laugh out loud every single day.

And I thought, how many people have that pleasure or gift of being that or just smiling every day?

And that was what.

I just wanted to share that in little stories about them that would also bring some joy.

I know they were the inspiration, but why a children's book?

Because they reminded me of kids.

Okay?

They were just curious.

They were always just raring to go, full of energy, not always patient.

And again, my youngest son had gone off to college, so it was a little bit like an empty nest syndrome.

So when we adopted these two puppies, they just suddenly brought the whole house to life again.

And it reminded me again of being mom of young kids.

And I really thought that kids would be able to connect very closely to the feelings and antics of the puppies.

Fantastic.

It's interesting because our first dog was actually a collie and like Lassie.

And we, yeah, we love that dog dearly.

Her name was Raja.

And yeah, we just.

It was like.

And it was incredible because we had the dog before we had children.

And then about a year after we got the dog we had, we started to have children.

And my daughter and son grew up with Raja for the first 10 or 12 years of their life.

Definitely a dog can add a lot to your life.

When you got the inspiration for your children's book, tell us.

Okay, now you've got this inspiration.

You've got.

You've seen them go through these adventures.

So how did you get started in writing down these adventures?

And how did you start formulating your plan to write a children's book?

It was a plan to do it someday, but just the things again, being two together.

So Charlie Was always wanted to play.

Sophie was more laid back.

So just watching them.

So he'd hide behind a tree or.

And they'd jump out at her to try to convince her to chase him or whatever.

And then she'd just pretend she was too busy sniffing something.

She didn't want to have anything to do with him.

So I would just write when I came home, I would just write these little things down.

It was just so funny.

He was constantly watching because the border collie, I'd see him just like this, and I knew she was coming down from.

From some pathway that he was to pounce on her or to do something.

And so, anyway, so I would just take notes, and I thought, someday it'll be really fun to maybe write stories.

But it was always ideas about these guys and what they were doing.

And unfortunately, because Charlie did come from a puppy mill, he was one of those puppy mill dogs.

Okay.

Yep.

And adopted.

Given up to this rescue and came to our place.

And when he was about five years old, he started to get sick.

We took him to all various specialists.

They weren't able to diagnose it in time, and he just became sicker.

Just basically four months after his initial symptoms.

We had to let him go.

He was just extremely sick.

And that's unfortunate.

But you did get those years with him and Sophie together to inspire you to write the book.

So you wrote your children's book after he had passed away?

Yes.

And so then for a while, I thought, okay, it's a good time to pen at least one story.

And my hope was that then his spirit would live on in the book, the story, the pages of the book.

And that is one reason why I really looked for an illustrator who would do justice to how the dogs actually look in real life.

I shared many photographs of our home, our fields, our trails, the two dogs.

And so they're very true to life.

The illustration.

She's a wonderful traditional watercolor, pen and ink artist.

Before we jump into the illustration, because I definitely have a section I want to talk.

No, this is great.

The thing I would like to ask you a little bit about before we get into the actual putting everything together is when you started formulating your idea for your children's book, did you have a book business plan?

Did you have a formal plan?

No, no.

You know what?

I would say that 99% of the children's book authors I talk to don't have a book business plan.

So I think of this whole idea of a book business plan.

Did you develop any type of Book business plan after you published your book.

What do you mean exactly by a business plan?

Thank you for asking that.

Now you have your book done, you have a product and you want to get it out into the world.

And once you've gone through and you've written the book, you've had the book, you've illustrated it, you've actually published it, you even have distribution.

So now it comes to sales and marketing.

And that always seems to be the sticking point.

Yes.

And so I know, I just want our listeners, aspiring children's book authors, to understand that for all of us, that's a big challenge.

That's why I ask about a book business plan, because you can do the first five parts we just talked about.

But if you don't have a book business plan for the sales and marketing of your book, it doesn't get to too many readers.

That's what I'm curious about is what have you done now for the sales and marketing side of your book business?

So my book came out again, it's very busy.

It's a busy time when you're first of all writing absolutely multiple edits because that's your focus to at least get the book ready for printing.

Yeah.

And then you have to find your illustrator and then all the book design and the covers and then uploading it on Amazon and whatever.

So now it's printed.

So my book came out October of 2024.

It's not even been a full year at all.

And it's version beginning of June.

So then what I did was I made my little business plan, contacted local libraries.

We have many smaller libraries.

We live in a very rural part of upstate New York.

So there are many small libraries.

So I started calling them to see if it's a new book.

Local author, let's do a program.

So many were, most of them were happy to host me.

So that was one way of getting to readers and talking about the book.

And the process then started calling schools.

And I have not had much luck up here getting any feedback or response from public schools.

I think they're so strapped for cash for their time because they're teaching for tests.

They don't have extra time to just write an author.

But I've had a lot of good experiences with our small private schools.

Many of them are just Catholic schools or just independent schools.

They have more flexibility.

I've been able to and I usually will.

So I developed a book pre order form and I share with the schools and then ask them if they will send that to the families A couple weeks before my visit.

And then they're able to pre order and I say I'll bring everything nicely signed to the reading.

And then they also have a chance afterwards if some kids really like the book to.

They have a week after the talk if they want to order some.

Nice.

And because they're local, they're not too far away.

At most it's about an hour drive, which is at the front farthest end of me.

My.

I can always take them and deliver them my next way out.

So I make it easier for them.

And it's cheaper than on Amazon because I order my other copies and I can give them a little discount.

Absolutely.

And so it sounds.

With you being in a rural area, do you attend some farmers markets?

No, it's just to.

It's the time.

I've done some.

I did some.

What do you call them?

The craft type shows.

Yes.

Even around the holidays.

And only one really was successful.

Because you have to pay a table fee.

Yes.

And if you don't sell and we don't make much when our books are on Amazon, it's like not much at all.

And so that's how I tried to figure out, okay, if it's $65 or $125 to just rent a table, I would have to sell 10, 15, however many books to even break even for sure.

And it's not been that successful.

So I tried.

It was a little bit of success right before Christmas because many aunts or grandparents are looking for some sort of a gift that's not just another toy.

And so they might sometimes buy a book.

But normally if it's a craft show, people are not coming to buy books.

They're just buying knickknacks or whatever.

Wasn't.

But because my book is about dogs now, this is a new thing.

So it's coming up in a couple weeks.

It's called Pet Palooza.

It's a big event here.

I've before.

But there are a lot of.

It's outdoors.

Many like shelters and other organizations that serve pet owners.

That kind will be there and boarding places, vets, other people who make issues and things like that.

So I did apply to be there.

Good for you.

Because you know what?

I talked to a couple of authors who were in the Air Force and yeah.

And they were pilots or helicopter pilots.

And those ladies and a gentleman actually went to like an air.

Not an air show, but an aircraft conference.

And what was interesting is one of the sponsoring suppliers actually bought all the authors that attended.

They sponsored them.

And Bought a certain amount of books.

That's great.

Yeah, it was fantastic.

And then what happened was the authors got the revenue and then they signed the books for the people attending the shows.

So that was a nice touch.

It's nice to think outside the box and realize that.

That you don't have to be in a traditional bookstore to reach your target market.

And you have to know what your target market is.

And so one, there'll be animal lovers and people will come with their kids.

They're looking to maybe adopt a dog or a cat.

I'll be in the children's section where there's face painting and other things.

Yes.

So who knows?

So it's something new.

I'm trying.

And we'll see in some other.

They've started.

This one lady does pop up bookstores.

So she has.

She buys books that are not used.

Exactly.

Overstocks.

Yes.

And so she can sell them cheaply.

And she sets up in different.

Either breweries or places where people come just to chat and sample things.

And it's nice because a lot of the traditional bookstores are no more.

They've just gone away.

The readers are still there, which was a nice thing to see.

Like just browsing and looking and they'll buy things.

So that's another thing coming up.

And I'll see how that goes.

But traditional farmer's market is just a waste of time, I think.

Too many hours just sitting there and really have to have either book lovers or something else that kind of ties directly to your book.

Thank you for sharing that.

Because what I'm trying to do is help aspiring children's book authors realize that you really have to think about your approach and who you're approaching and your time that you're putting in to do that.

Let's talk about your publishing approach.

Each one of us has a unique publishing approach.

So I noticed that you used Miriam Laundrie as your publisher there.

If you can explain to us.

We've had people talk about Miriam before, but talk to us about that experience and tell us what kind of publisher she is.

Okay.

So when I started thinking about the actual publishing process, you have traditional publishers, which the more I talked to people, they said so many people are now writing and illustrating even their own books.

Because with computers with.

It's easier than it was in the past.

And traditional publish publishers are just inundated now with.

Or were with all these manuscripts.

So they will not even really look at you unless you have already been looked at by an agent.

You have to be represented by an Agent most of the time before a traditional publisher will even deign to look at you.

And people said it can take anywhere from six to 10 years.

And I thought I don't have that kind of time.

And I've heard that story before, I.

Don'T have that kind of time.

So the next thing was okay, just learning to do it on my own.

But again maybe it's age related or whatever.

I'm not very tech savvy and things are just changing and progress is too fast for me to deal with.

I thought it might be just there might be too many hiccups and too many times where I'm thinking I'm stuck.

Who do I call?

What do you know?

How can I move forward?

My files are not loading.

Or they.

Oh, they disappeared and Amazon never got them.

So now what?

So then I came across Miriam Laundrie who she's not vanity publisher exactly.

I'm not sure what they are.

But she is a hybrid publisher.

We retain the authors retain all the rights to their publication.

What she does is her promise is that she and her team will guide you from basically the inception of your own idea all the way to holding a physical printed copy of your book in your hand in one year.

One year.

Because you know you can start and then there are various things come up.

Yeah.

And then 10 years later, oh, maybe it's time.

And that was to hold you accountable, to help you through, to answer questions, things like that.

And her team is excellent and just really kept me.

And I'm organized and I do stay on task.

But there I had some issues with my illustrator.

But they help you feel confident enough that if you are stuck or if you have questions, you have somewhere to go ask.

And they do a beautiful job.

Like every one of the books that I've seen that they've used.

Miriam Laundrie just the books are beautiful, a very nice job.

I'm extremely happy with whatever they promised.

They more than delivered on.

I want to talk a little bit about your second book and I'll tell you why I'm very interested in your second book is tell us a little bit about the award that you won because I noticed you won the Literary Titan Gold book award.

Tell us how did you enter and tell us that whole process.

Congratulations by the way.

Oh, thank you.

There are just again with the proliferation of self published authors there's also been proliferation of all kinds of awards for various things.

So I was looking for an indie book author award because some will you have to be traditionally published if you can Even apply.

So just a lot of research.

Most awards of course have a registration fee and some were pretty expensive.

And you just have to research and see what their requirements are, what their standards are, the different levels, and then make up your own mind.

So I wanted to see if my book would be able to win an award.

I applied for maybe four or five and I did win three.

I didn't put them.

Yeah.

So it's, it just makes you feel validated.

And I noticed on your website you have the actual symbol on the book cover.

Now have I purchased this book a little while ago?

I think I purchased it in April.

But does your new copies that are printed have the symbol on it?

No, because you have to resubmit to Amazon different files.

So you have to change the COVID and you have to have it.

And I would have to pay like $500 or something to the book designer to redesign because it's all pretty complicated and I don't know how to exactly do it properly.

So it would be a new file basically that would have to be submitted to Amazon for them to print it with the symbol.

Sadly, that would be very nice to have that because I do order my author copies to take to the book signings.

Right.

I was curious if having that on your book cover or showing it on your website, has that helped you sell some more books?

How do you find out?

See, that's the thing, right.

Just don't know what moves somebody to buy it.

And the other thing is I have been.

I didn't have an Instagram account.

I had gone away really from Facebook.

But again, Miriam Laundrie's team said that you meet many more people through social media.

Especially where I live, it's very rural.

I don't really have contacts that are.

That was another thing.

So I started and I'm trying to keep up with Instagram and that I think I have gotten sales through that because it's the back and forth like you are doing here to help new authors.

Same thing I do, reviews of other new authors books and just share and all that.

And so if we help each other.

I couldn't agree with you more, honestly.

I was reading some of your blog posts and I noticed some of the people, they were very encouraging.

So it's just nice to have that.

Right.

I think that's one of the great things that I have found is to like minded people who like reading, who believe in the power of books and starting kids early to love stories, to love books.

So if I can help other new authors again I'm not indiscriminate.

I load a lot of the people make their books free, occasionally on Kindle, and I get that.

But some that I can't.

I understand for sure.

Yeah, it's been great.

No, fantastic.

Because I, like I said to you as I was looking at your website, reading your blogs, and then I came across that you were working on your second book.

And normally I, I say to my guests, once you get close to finishing your book and you're about to launch, please let me know.

I'd love to have you back on the show.

But I noticed your second book was so fascinating because you had a cousin who had polio.

I have a cousin who had polio.

So you and I have something very much in common now.

He lives right in the surrounding area that I live in.

And so when I was younger, I was growing up as he was growing up, except he had the difficulties because of polio.

He's always, he learned to use his crutches and have the ability to walk.

And I don't want to take away from your story.

So tell us a little bit about the inspiration behind your second book.

Like you mentioned, it was my cousin and she, again, we also grew up together.

Now, she was 10 years older than I am, but still we were very close.

And then when I, because we grew up in Pakistan, eventually she moved with her mother and brother, who unfortunately, younger brother also got polio because the vaccine didn't come to Pakistan, especially in some of the outlying areas.

Right.

And she was born in 1952.

Anyway, so they moved to Chicago for various reasons.

And later I ended up going to the University of Chicago.

And they were close.

I was with them for most of my adult life as well.

Okay.

And I did see her slowly because it's the post polio syndrome.

I don't know if your cousin is dealing with that or not.

So far, he's been lucky.

And I'm amazed because he actually married later in life and has three children.

Yeah.

Anyways, anyway, so I did see her slowly become weaker in physically and then also with breathing and things like that.

But her spirit just, she was the strongest, most positive person ever.

And she was confined to bed with a tracheotomy tube for the last 11 years of her life.

And yet she would knit and she would watch movies and discuss politics.

And always I'd say, how are you?

And she'd say, oh, I'm fine.

How are you?

And so I love it.

Yeah, that's spirit was really an inspiration for most of us.

Our cousins because it's a big family and the adults as well, our aunts and uncles and her wish was to be able to someday just run and climb trees and just feel free because especially with the trach, she was just completely.

She couldn't even roll over.

And that was just something to most of us is just we take it for granted.

We can just get up and move around that if we want we can well run down the treadmill.

I don't know if I could run outside.

But just those kinds of things.

We don't even think twice.

Taking a shower.

Little things for us.

And so it just gave me.

And I have three sons so I felt more comfortable making it a little boy in my book.

But he's.

Yeah, he's confined to a wheelchair.

She's the inspiration that you draw in from because your boys are healthy.

Yeah.

Okay.

He's keeping my fingers.

Oh, sorry.

Tell us the title of the book.

It's called the Boy who wanted to Fly.

Like I said because I have a personal relationship with polio.

I was touched by that.

It's fantastic that you're working on that.

Thank you.

Yeah.

It's been a great, much easier second time around.

Okay.

And so are you going to use Miriam Laundry services again this time.

But then I think I'm much more confident now through the editing process just knowing how to go from beginning to basically the end with the publishing.

She does not help with marketing at all.

She'll do an interview with.

Once your book is out on launch day, she does an interview and really encourages the other authors, new and old in that big group to go and support each other or support or buy a copy of the book, review it, whatever.

So that's been very nice.

So you're able to use her services but more a la carte, is that correct?

Some.

So you could.

Yeah.

Not everything but I think you can purchase a editing package.

So that's good.

But then you would have to find your own book designer to lay it out and upload the files or learn how to do it yourself, things like that.

From what I understand, you also have to find your own illustrator.

Yes.

Okay, so before I talk to you about the illustrations, I just want to talk a little bit about because as a self published author and you got to keep all the files, you control everything.

So did you do any print on demand at all like in larger quantities or are you just using the Amazon print on like for book authors service?

Yeah.

So I don't have a separate publisher.

So it's just Amazon.

But print on demand.

So I do order copies.

So I think I've ordered initially like 200 copies of my paperback.

Then Ingramspark does hardcover.

Yes.

So I ordered some from there.

So I had enough to do all my library visits, things like that.

But yeah, I don't have another publisher.

Okay, so you're not using any offset printing services.

Okay.

No, no.

I again, I want people to understand that I will say one thing about.

Because that's what we've been using is Amazon's author's copy services.

So far that seems to be working quite well.

Yeah, I just don't want to have thousand books to store.

Oh, I couldn't agree with him more.

You can order 200 or 300 and then try to sell them.

I don't want boxes and boxes.

And I don't blame you at all.

So tell us about your illustrator.

I'm interested because Miriam Laundrie has you find your own illustrator.

So tell us how did you find your illustrator?

And then tell us about your illustrator.

Because the one thing I want everyone to know is that you actually Ferial.

What you did is you actually in your book.

And I know people listening can't see it, but in Arielle's book, she actually gives her illustrator like a nice write up in your book.

So explain to us that whole relationship and why you were so generous in doing that with your children's book illustrator.

Books that are picture books are made up of words and images.

You have to have that.

So I had my manuscript which was words.

But pictures are also what really brought the whole story alive for a young reader.

We're writing for people who cannot read.

Basically people have to read the book to them and to keep the interest.

I think pictures are great because.

And again, not too many words because attention spans are very short.

So she.

And this was true to life.

So she was very good at drawing animals and the outdoor scenes, things like that.

And she did.

I think she did a great job.

Beautiful.

And I felt.

Yeah.

And I felt that I owed it to her because again, yeah, the words were mine, but the pictures were hers to give her the credit where credit was definitely due.

Fantastic.

Good for you.

So with your second book, is she going to be the illustrator for your second book?

No, I think each book has its own feel, its own spirit.

And so this was a very particular story and the inspiration and was a memoriam to Charlie.

But my other one is more.

It's realistic, but it's complete fiction.

And I just wanted a different.

You know what?

Ferry is interesting because I'VE interviewed quite a few children's book authors now.

And to your point, I interviewed a gentleman, Darcy Guyant, and he started with a book series.

He wrote three children's books with the same heroin.

And Helicopter was the.

Was a character, and then he had another helicopter as a character, but it was a different helicopter.

So he actually used a different illustrator.

To.

To your point, it just had a different feel.

It wasn't the same.

I'm hearing that quite often is that it's not that people are dissatisfied with the illustrator, it's just that they have a specific style and sometimes you want to move away from that style to match the book that you're currently working on.

And so I this time.

So before with Patrizia, my previous illustrator, again, when I was writing, I was also getting a ton of books, kids books from the library and just reading them, getting an idea of the types of illustrations.

I like the art medium because many artists have learned to draw, but their characters look very much the same to me.

I don't know.

So I wanted something different.

You had mentioned earlier, and I want to pick up on this because now that we're talking about the illustrator, you said that you had sent photos to your illustrator to help her understand what you were trying to convey.

Is that correct?

Yes.

Yes.

And in the back of my book, I do have actual photographs of Sophie and Charlie.

Yes.

And I always mention that when I go out to visit schools, kids like to know that the story is based on real dogs.

And then they can see.

And I tell them these are photographs, but these are illustrations.

But they resemble my real dogs because I sent lots of photographs.

It's interesting you should say that, because I.

Our book, which is called.

Our first book, is called the Adventures of Caboose the Rocky Mountain Bear.

And it's actually based on a real story.

Of course, it wasn't a bear.

It was actually my oldest granddaughter.

And if you noticed, we actually spelled caboose with a K.

And the reason we do that is that my oldest granddaughter's name is Kira and that starts with a K.

So she was the inspiration.

And the story is actually based on.

About our adventures in the Rocky Mountains, which has now turned into about 38 different stories in the Adventures of Caboose, the Rocky Mountain Bear, and now includes my four other grandchildren.

So they've all become co authors in some of the stories.

So it's been a lot of fun.

But the interesting thing for the illustrator is that, first of all, we actually developed, if you can see right there, we developed A stuffy.

And I tell the story.

We were down in San Francisco and.

And it was in our minds and we created Caboose, the Rocky Mountain Bear.

I sent the picture to our illustrator of Caboose and he used that to develop the whole feel of our book.

So then what we did is we sent him pictures of us doing these adventures and he turned, because of Caboose, turned all of us into characters.

Why I'm saying all this is just like you.

You sent pictures to inspire the illustrator and she did it in almost a real life way.

In our case, we sent our real life pictures and we were turned into animation or.

But characters, of course.

And so it's interesting how for aspiring book authors understand that don't put your pictures away because they can actually be your storyboard.

And an illustrator can take them and turn them into something very magical.

It depends on the illustrator.

True.

This time for the second book, I went through an art agency, Advocate Art.

And I looked through many.

They represent many artists and illustrators.

Okay.

I just went through all kinds of portfolios, said no.

Yes.

No.

Yes.

Made my lists and then tried to.

And then communicated with I think six or seven.

Because not everybody's schedule is going to mesh with yours for sure.

And even you have to have a budget and you let them know this is.

So there's.

So you just hope that one of the authors, illustrators that you like will end up being available for your book.

And I noticed you've already started publishing on your blog some of the illustrations.

So good for you.

And you're.

And you're happy with the new illustrator?

Very happy.

She's very creative.

She gets back to me in a timely way.

She comes up with her own ideas as well, based on the words and also is very good at taking my feedback and incorporating that or coming up with something else.

So we're just kind of on our very last page with the color illustrations.

We're having a little bit of difficulty figuring out how to portray the very end.

But we're.

We're getting everything else looks great.

So that is terrific.

Good for you.

I'm really happy with it.

Nice.

So I want to talk to you about your website.

We were just talking about it and I really poked around on your website and I looked at your blog because you offer so much value.

The reason I tell people make sure.

And we'll put all the links to your blog in the show notes, but go to Ferriel's blog.

And the nice thing, I like what you've done is it Gives any aspiring children's book author or children's book reader how the next story is developing in your thought process and all of that.

So if you want a guide, go to Ferrielle's blog because she definitely gives you a guide on her whole thought process about bringing her next book to life.

Hats off to you.

Very nice job.

Thank you.

Because it's always an.

I don't want to be too wordy but sometimes it's difficult to know what to write about.

So I figure while they are on the journey with me, many of them again most of them are Miriam's authors either thinking of writing or in the middle or newer than I am.

And so it's helpful for them as well to see how everything progresses.

For sure.

Yeah.

And so next will be the book designer.

We'll talk about that or in the previous book of the blog items was what to look for when you are looking for an illustrator styles and art mediums and things like that.

It depends a lot on the what the emotion of the book is that you're trying to communicate.

For sure.

So did you develop your website before or after you launched your book?

Oh no, not after.

It was before.

So it launched in October of last year so we were working on it in the summer.

Okay, so you launched it just before your actual book launch, is that correct?

Yeah, I forget now.

Exactly.

But maybe August, something like that.

Okay.

Yeah.

Because I'm looking at your.

I'm looking at your website now and and it looks like you of course have used some of the graphics from your book.

Yeah.

And also I like your sneak preview video.

That was fun.

It's just a save back one.

Oh nice, nice.

And like you said it's about a minute so it's.

But it's fun that you did that so that people can have some get a sense of what your book's all about.

Are you going to make any significant changes to your website when you launch your second book?

So right now it's all about dog first homepage is just my two dogs and some I will definitely have to change that.

Maybe it would be new coming soon or something and then the dogs will be relegated to their own kind of page.

The first and then so I haven't released it's already June so I need to start thinking about there won't.

I don't think there'll be significant changes but I still need to get the landing picture.

The nice thing about it just so everyone listening, it's FerryelsBooks.com so it's the Nice thing about it, it's your books.

So how.

However many books you bring to the market, it's under your name.

Okay.

I just tried to keep it simple.

And so anybody who's.

Because many times people invent a different name for their like Instagram account and then it's very hard to keep it straight if you're just looking for that person.

So I just tried to make it simple enough.

And my name is in the US at least it's not as common.

Jane Smith's or Jane's books might be a bit too dull or whatever.

So that's why I used that to make it easier for people to find it as well.

Good for you.

I know in your first book the dogs were your motivation, but was there anything else that motivated you to write the children's books besides the dogs?

Were your sons inspirational?

We had our first grandson was born three years ago and I just thought that we have.

And he was overseas, my son was overseas at the time, so we couldn't really be close to our grandson.

And we made a big change a while ago.

We used to actually live in a suburb of Chicago and just the rampant growth in our urbanization was just too much.

So we decided to make a change.

And we bought this old farmhouse in a small rural community upstate New York and we moved.

And it's been great, but the experiences are very different.

I have many things I do want to write about over time and I thought that'd be a good way to just share with our grandson as he grows up.

And so the dogs just being free in the woods because I have done some book readings to kids in like city schools.

Yes.

They could not really relate to the book because they'd not ever really seen a big pond or Canada geese.

And that was eye opening for me because I take it so much for granted.

They didn't know what a chickadee sounded like.

Okay.

Everything was new.

And so that was another reason why I thought we're just picking elderberries to make jam or whatever.

So there are different ideas that are more.

I don't write fantasy as such.

I want.

I'm more interested in writing about real things like tapping trees to make maple syrup, those kinds of things.

Because again, they are alien to most kids growing up now.

So that was the other inspiration to just write even if I don't publish everything.

But to have those stories and I take a lot of photographs as well to just document our kind of day to day experiences and life in the country.

That's fantastic.

That's It's.

I loved it.

I love hearing that.

And character development.

I just want to talk a little bit about because I think you're the first children's book author that I've interviewed that actually has two main characters, Charlie and Sophie.

Tell us, as you wrote your story about that whole dynamic, how did that work for you?

That was great because I think many kids do have siblings, so they relate to that kind of interaction.

And it was actually based on their real characters.

That's how they were.

Sophie was the.

She's definitely the alpha girl.

She would pretend to be very low key, but she's the one who he.

Charlie would always just run out, wanted to be first in everything, but he'd get into trouble because he acted before.

He thought about things constantly.

She would come along and lead him back to the straight and error, find solutions, things like that.

It was just interesting.

And that's why there was a lot of observation that went on.

And they were off leash.

We trained them to be off leash.

Of course, when they were young, they would run off and do things.

Well, I love that dynamic because you know what I mean.

I had a younger brother, and my wife and I have two children.

My daughter's the older of the two, but they were fairly close in age.

So again, that whole dynamic of, like you said, brother and sister or siblings and.

But I love how you weaved it into a children's book story because like I said, most of the time that I've talked to people, they generally have only one main character.

And it's interesting because in our book, our first book, the dynamic is actually between Caboose and her grandfather, which is the dynamic between my granddaughter and myself.

Pretty cool.

Anyways, thank you for sharing that so that people understand.

When you're doing character development, think about how, for example, siblings can play off each other because they have different traits.

And as you mentioned, Ferriel.

The one's more calming than the other one or brings that dynamic, but one's maybe a little more fun and brings that dynamic.

Oh, yeah.

And I've always.

I was just in.

It just came naturally to me because again, being a mom and just watching these two as little kids, basically.

And they were.

Yeah.

So they just have.

I have so many stories about them, but it's very interesting, the dynamics, very intelligent dogs.

And same thing with my second story.

I have the brother and then his little sister who he's in the wheelchair.

He's creative, dreamy, quiet, and she's just full of energy.

I'm all over and she wants to be involved in everything.

All that, that's, that's fun.

And again, we learned through Miriam's courses and things like that that kids like to read about other kids maybe a little bit older than them, but not so far that they can't relate.

And if there's a problem or a challenge, it's good for them to see that the child or the protagonist solves it themselves.

And then some grown up or somebody else shows up, fairy godmother and kind of fixes everything because that's what you want them to get something out of it and learn.

And that's why I have the two siblings in my other book as well, and here too.

That boy could have come and brought them home when the dogs got lost, but instead they had to work as a team, learn to use their senses to figure out how to get back home.

So would you say that's a big part of your theme in the book?

Yes.

The overall kind of message is that everybody makes mistakes, which is when they run off into the woods, disobey, and then there are consequences.

But if you learn from your mistakes, then they can become stepping stones to grow.

And that's where the story arc comes.

They actually learned a lesson.

They had to work together, they were lost to try to use their senses, to find their way home.

And then I think they also realized more of the value of being home, being safe like that.

So they did grow from their escapade.

So that's the central teaching.

And then also value of friendship because Pete didn't just run off and leave him to fend for himself.

They work together to try to find their way home.

And also in the beginning, when they're exploring the woods, it's fun with two the value of friendship, of companionship.

So that's.

Adventures are more fun when shared with.

You working on your second book.

So this is probably fresh and guessing.

It's fresh.

Tell us about your writing process.

So share some insights into how you're.

The nice thing about it, you've already shared it through your blog, but tell the listening audience your writing process right now and how you're developing your second book.

So first I would, I think I would just.

So was that spark the germ of an idea that somebody who's so earthbound wants to feel free, wants to feel light, wants to be not stuck to the earth?

Yes.

And so you just.

Just taking notes, writing just whatever comes into my mind about what that is.

When you start just writing a story and he's stuck, so he lives in an apartment building.

So it's visuals, it's feelings.

So he's in a small apartment way up in the.

He has to go down in an elevator.

These are all in my.

So you develop your character, figure out what he or she is, what they feel, what you know, how their day is going, things like that.

You get into the mind of your character and then slowly you start thinking like them.

And then he's got a nice picture window in his bedroom.

He looks.

He's always looking at clouds that are moving.

There's burn.

So it's air, it's flight, those things.

And he just wishes that he could fly.

And then they go on vacation and he comes up with an idea.

And so then just thinking, what are some of the ways he could do that?

Something simple enough that a child can manage.

Of course, maybe he could become a pilot when he's older.

But he wants something now.

Yes.

Okay.

And a lot of it is driven from my personal experiences because all three of my kids, boys were scouts.

So we did a lot of pinewood derbies and kite derbies and regattas, all those things, hands on kind of stuff.

And so then we come up with ideas like that and then.

And are you doing any additional research behind the story or are you just drawing on your personal experience?

No, there was lots of research, so I'll give it away.

So he builds a kite with the help of his sister, and then they learn to fly it.

And they've gone to the beach, they've rented a cottage for spring break and there's always breezes.

So a lot of research about how best to make a kite, what it takes to fly it, what things can go wrong and those things.

Yes.

And just generally there are a couple of pages in the back about kites and how they were.

Not a lot.

Some of the ways they've been used for weather, for sending secret messages, things like that.

It's a little bit more about just kites in the world we had talked.

About at the beginning.

We started talking about a book business plan.

But I'd like to delve a bit deeper into.

Not so much the business side of it, but when you started out, how did you envision your success?

How did you see the success for your book?

Can you tell us that?

I'm at this stage of my life that I wasn't thinking of becoming a millionaire, quit writing or selling my book.

That was not the point.

Right.

So not for fame and fortune.

No, certainly not for fortune.

Okay, so we'll throw in the fame.

Yeah.

Mid somebody did ask me.

One of these kids is just so funny in school.

They're just little.

And somebody said, are you rich?

Second grader.

So they part this big author standing here, she's got a book.

She must be rich.

Anyway, it's a very philosophical answer with a gay thing.

I've heard that story before from what I was telling you about Darcy, who wrote the helicopter books, and he had the same thing.

That's the first thing the kids said to him.

Are you a millionaire?

At least rich can come in different forms.

I said, absolutely.

I've got two dogs.

I go out and walk every day, have fresh air.

So, yeah, them rich.

Sorry I pulled you off track there.

So sorry.

Coming back to your book, so what success mean to you for your book?

Being able to bring my story to people, to in and just engaging.

So when I go, whether read to somebody at the library, whether it's adults that are interested in my whole process in my book or kids in school, whatever, if I can engage them, get them to open up about their own dogs or about their woods near my grandpa, that they have geese, anything that can spark their own curiosity and interest in either.

Anything to do with the story, the characters, the environment that I'm depicting in the book, or my own journey writing, I think that makes me feel successful because it's something that I.

This is all new.

This is my first book.

So all of these school visits as an author, not just as a parent, volunteering in schools and talking to kids about this story that's based on something real that happened and engaging them and then and saying, anybody.

I'm sure you have written stories, so go in and illustrate and write it and get them interested in doing that.

I think that's what success has been for me.

I'm really enjoying that aspect.

Oh, good for you.

I had the great fortune of going to my youngest grandson's school and reading to his class, and they were a little bit older than our demographic for a book.

And so I made it into more of that whole process that you were talking about in how to write and illustrate a book.

I couldn't believe how many questions I got from all the students.

It was amazing and it was a good feeling, for sure.

Yep.

So that's what I think success is.

The role of writing now in your life.

Tell us about in the grand scheme of things.

Now in your life.

Because now you're a published book author, you're about to launch your second book.

Tell us about children's book authorship in the grand scheme of your life.

Now so I have a notebook and I've been keeping ideas because once walking the dogs in the woods is great.

Ideas just come out of nowhere, right.

And so I just note them down.

And so when this is all almost done, so it's time.

And I am part of some of these writing children's books groups and things like that.

So they're always doing editing or looking at what you have next.

So that kind of pushes me.

So I've written my third, just a manuscript and then I submit it and we talk about it.

Then I go and rewrite and edit.

Just keep a note.

Notes about different ideas.

When it's time for you, you feel right about actually writing the whole story, filling in your idea and bringing to life, then just go ahead and start.

It's interesting you should say that.

Thank you for sharing that.

Because when my granddaughter and I, she was probably six or seven when we started writing our first adventure and we wrote our first story and then what happened was we ended up, we had all these ideas, so we ended up actually writing instead of writing the next book.

We wrote ideas for about 30 more books.

Like we came up with the title and what they would be about in a notebook.

We went and bought a special notebook, which I still have to this day, filled with all those original thoughts.

So the process that you're talking about, very similar and that's why I wanted to share it with the listening audience is, you know what, have that notebook or use your smartphone or whatever and don't let the idea run away on you.

Get it down right away and you never know where it ends up going.

Very true.

Or you may just lose it.

And so if it struck you as an interesting idea for a story, write it down.

You may not never go to it again, but it's there because something else may spark it.

And suddenly it's time.

It's time for that idea.

Absolutely.

So picking up on that, what kind of advice do you have for aspiring children's book authors?

When I wrote my book, I had, of course, a lot of self doubts, I would think.

There's so many books about dogs.

Who would want to read yet another book about dogs?

And then I thought, it's my story, my experience, which no one else has had.

And it's my voice.

So whatever.

Don't second guess because your voice is unique, your story is unique.

Write it down.

Because yeah, just like for you, many books have been written about the Rocky Mountains, but what you are writing, it's your experience.

Absolutely.

Your grandchild.

And why not?

It'll strike a chord somewhere and I don't know.

So I think that's yes, it's courageous to put pen to paper and write things and then think, okay, other people are going to read it.

So it's scary.

But you know what?

This is the time and it's never, there'll never be a perfect time where all the stars are aligned just right and time passes.

So just go ahead, start writing, edit, re edit and you're on your way.

I couldn't agree with you more.

Thank you for that and encouragement for readers.

So why should children's book readers purchase your book?

It's an interesting story.

Like you said, it touches on sibling relationships.

It's also about two little dogs that were adopted from a rescue and were able to thrive in a life that maybe they might not have had otherwise.

They were in little cages and then they were given up and Sophie still has issues, abandonment issues and things.

But reading it and I did dedicate it to our border collie rescue.

So to see that anybody can get a second chance and these dogs did and they thrived and they could live their full life and just to see this was just one adventure that they had together in the woods.

Free.

Thank you for sharing that.

And your books can be purchased through your website.

Amazon.

Can you go and click through to Amazon on your website?

Yes.

I just want you.

Yeah, so I just want people to understand that you click on the link that'll take you to Amazon or you can go directly to Amazon.

And you know what everyone, we will put the links in the show notes so that it'll be easy for you to get Ferry Elle's book and hear about her.

I'd encourage you to go to her website and read her blog to get inspiration on how to go about writing a children's book because it's, it's all there in her blog.

Final Thoughts Ferial, is there anything that you said.

I wish Rick would have asked me that.

Is there anything you'd like to share that with our audience?

Being a new author is scary because you are just you and your book out in the big world.

So the more you connect with other newer authors and that's where I think Facebook and Instagram has been very helpful because I do live in a small community so I don't have other children's book authors near me.

But we're all in the same boat.

We're trying to get attention for our book and just helping each other.

So create that community of like minded people who are, who care about reading who care about literacy, who care about bringing good books to children, and encouraging the love of reading is important.

And I just, I think that's something that I do want to emphasize, that it takes a whole community to, to encourage each other.

And the more we do that, I think we all rise.

And I couldn't agree with you more because it's amazing.

With all of the children's book authors that I've interviewed, many of them have introduced me to other children's book authors.

And so they're all helping each other promote each other's books.

That's an incredible, very giving community.

It's a great community.

Yes.

We need that.

Absolutely.

So thank you so much, Feriel, for being a guest on the Adventures in the Heart, a children's book authors podcast.

Your generosity of time and insights will significantly benefit aspiring authors and readers.

We promised to provide our audience with Ferriel's website link and other social media links.

And if you've enjoyed the episode, please hit the subscribe button to listen to our future episodes.

And feel free to share the episode with anyone who you feel will be inspired or enjoys hearing about Ferrielle and her children's book, Charlie and Sophie's Great Escape.

Thank you.

Thank you, Rick.

I really appreciate this opportunity.