Hello and welcome. Do you feel lonely and isolated sometimes? By strengthening your social health, you can improve your physical and mental health too. Now this is a really, really important topic, which I'm delighted to have April Baker from Together Co, which is a loneliness charity, join me. Together is a specialist in this field, does amazing work around people, social health and loneliness. And loneliness and isolation is something that we all experience, whether we perhaps in a personal space, maybe you're a leader or a founder, it's lonely at the time. Loneliness can touch anyone and it can have profound effects. So I'm delighted to welcome April and we're going to share with you a lot of thoughts and understanding and things that you can do to deal if you're dealing with loneliness and isolation. April, welcome!

It's great to be here and talking all things social health. excited.

Good stuff, lovely to have you. In terms of definition, words are powerful and sometimes words can be, interpreted differently. I'd like to talk to the three things of isolation, loneliness, and social health. So what's your definition of isolation?

Yeah, so I think for me, loneliness and isolation can be mixed together and used together where people think it's the same thing. So isolation is objective part of loneliness. So isolation is you are unable to leave the house because of, let's say, a physical health condition, or we have become isolated because of a pandemic and we're locked down. So we are isolated. So that's the objective part. Loneliness. Now that is subjective. That's something we feel and, and that's got many layers to it and probably a lot more connotation and when you pitch a loneliness for me, I picture older, older person, on their own living on their own kind of, I always think when I'm thinking of loneliness, Eleanor Rigby plays in my mind, that that song comes up was actually, and I still think that even though I have been lonely as a young person. So loneliness, it's a feeling. And there's different forms of loneliness. So it's around a disconnection from something. So it could be a disconnection from yourself. So you just don't get yourself, you don't know who you are. So it's quite existential in that regards. But also there's a loneliness of not belonging. So you're not belonging to the job that you go to every maybe the wider community and network. It's a real felt thing that One person that has been a supporter of for many years and also used to access our services beautifully described it, where they said, I feel homesick, but I don't know where my home And that for me was like, yes, that is it. That is how you feel. It can be very stigmatizing. To admit I am lonely. And so that's the key differences for me. I would say you've got isolation, loneliness. Someone can become lonely because of their isolation, but you could be lonely in a room full of people and look like you've got loads of friends, but you just don't feel connected. And so I think that's more what people feel and go, what is this? Because I've got loads of friends and I'm in this room with 400 people and I've got a thousand friends on my social media. Yeah. That's the loneliness that feels different, I think people, feel, but they don't know what that is, and I think more people need to understand, that's because you're a social being, and something is not quite connected for you, that you need to, to find.

Lovely, really eloquent and powerful. I really struck me your descriptions there. Thank you. I know you work with us in depth and what you said there about Being social beings, of course we are, we're hardwired, humans are powerful as a social species. We're, we're quite fragile as a, as a, as an animal compared to say, a lion or a tiger, those powerful number. We're very clever as a group and of course we, we now dominate the earth. So we, we work as groups and we work well as groups and we're hardwired for grouping. There's a whole lots of things in the brain, such as mirror neurons, to have empathy. There's these things that we very much know now. One thing that really struck me is that... That perhaps illusion that may be going on for some people where you've got friends, a big social media following, you could be successful in all these, what seem apparently, outwardly good, appearances. And yet on the inside, there may be this loneliness, this sort of emptiness, this calling for home and you don't know what's going on with me. And I have a lot of clients that come in and try and figure out stuff. So they're very clever and try and cognize and think through problems. And it's not a thinking problem, it's a feeling problem as such, as an emotional issue or as a disconnect and that really struck from when you said that and for, for, for our listeners, I think if that lands for you, then it's, it's let's name this. It's one of the most empowerful things, right? Naming what's going on. Then you can work with it. Wonderful social health. Now you and I have spoken about this. It's something that we're going to go into, into some, some depth here. Please describe your interpretation of social health.

bit of a journey has, has happened with, TogetherCo, starting to talk more about social really going years. And if I first just start by saying that loneliness can be the negative aspect of it so you don't feel like you belong. So there's loneliness and people talk about an For us, we're trying to recognise that human beings have different parts and all those parts need to be working well, which will equate to being and us to thrive. So we want to work at what's right with us and normalise this feeling. social health. is about your relationships. So your network of relationships, the importance of relationships and connections, like I was saying before, your social health with your close five. And then, which might be, you have three or four very close networks. You then may have your local community, friends, and it's, what's that looking like? And we have to put social health into the conversations alongside physical health and mental health. So we've got physical. Health. We talk a lot about that. We are now talking much more about our mental health, have social We are social beings and those three combined equals well being. Don't miss the social health. I think it's the missing part And I think now more than ever from the pandemic that we've all been through collectively together, this must start being spoken about more because through many studies, what is shown about The key to the good life is It's your So that's where we're

Thank you. Yes, really, again, eloquent, lovely, very succinct. and as you know, for my regular listeners, that my entire philosophy is based on an ecosystem of the individual, how our mind works, our emotional mind or body and our physical body. And if we only attend to one, we're missing out on, on the, on the other. So you might exercise a lot, but may not deal with your emotional challenges. You may go to a psychotherapist or a coach and do your mind stuff but if you're not moving, and you're getting your body in a good place, you're missing out on how the whole system works as an ecosystem. But of course, we are a system within a system. No person works alone. It doesn't work like that. And we know that. We've got family. It's just how it actually is. It's basic science, right? And of course, it's very easy in our atomized, particularly our western culture, our very modern life that, We are individuals. The individual is highly prized. it's a big thing and it's a great thing. But if it's highly prized at the extent of I am separate from the other, it's this disconnection, this sort of sneaky problem I see in coming up on one guy or another and disconnection is a problem. And as you've alluded to, social health is, it's, it's, it's blooming obvious, right? It's really obvious. It's nice to have some friends. It's nice to get on with your family. It's good to have some co workers. And it's tough when you either don't get on with those people, or you don't have them. yeah. And I think when we term something as social health, and then add to it, okay, we need this. It's not a nice thing. Just, keep working your 50 hour week and, no, we work as a system. We're a system within a system. How can that work well? So that's beautiful. April, I'd love to learn a little bit more about how you got into the field of working with social health and loneliness. And how did, how did this come to you? What, what brought you into this space in the world?

I think there's that led me to where I am. where I'm, as you can probably tell, very passionate about talking about loneliness and social health. The first thing for me is I was raised as an So I grew up with, mum, dad and myself. And from that I had a fascination with larger families and groups of people. And actually, one of my earliest memories is as a little girl, I used to, so we had a Victorian house and I used to, all the gardens were interconnected and I used to cycle up and down the gardens of these little Victorian houses. And there was a few older people up. on that road that lived on their own. And I used to go in and have a cup of tea and then try to invite them back. So there was something from a very little girl going, why are they on their own? No one should be on their own. And my mum is from Ireland. She's from Cork. My mum is one of 14. So I went through, going from England, me, mum, dad, my family around us to Ireland, massive family. And so there was this fascination. What's going on? What's going on? Then I went to work in, different areas within the charity sector. So I previously ran services, including hostels for people experiencing homelessness. I also ran care homes for people with mental, health issues. And from all of the services I've ever managed or worked in, people just wanted to belong. So we'd na we would also label people homeless. mental health. They're just people and they want to belong. And some of the most powerful ways that they got better was through feeling like they were connected to something more than their condition or their experience. So that I think started this journey for me and this interest. Then I previously studied psychology and I'm now studying a master's in positive psychology. So I got this fascination with what's right with us. How do we thrive? what makes us well. And every single model that you look at in well being, in positive psychology, one aspect of it is relationships, connection. All of this combined made me realise the importance of what I now have said is social health, but of connection, of social beings. And then, as I came to this realisation, this role came up at TogetherCo, and suddenly I found This charity in Brighton and Hove that for 20, over 20 years has been doing exactly that, has been waving the flag saying people need each other, we need to bring people together, please don't forget that. And I was lucky enough to become their CEO a year ago. So I think it's all been building towards this.

Wow. Wow. And so interesting to hear that as a single child, my niece, she's a single child and of course I grew up with a sister. So when you look at these differences and see what it's like, yeah, these things do influence us, our experience. It's very, very striking what you said there about, not the label, not the homeless person, but the condition it's, it, we get caught up in labels and, we use labels. It's how we make sense of the world. I think the problem we have with labels in today's culture is that we, we are over labeled and we use things like, people say to me, I've got anxiety or I've got this, got that. And while there is some truth in it, I think the problem I have with labels is that we have to be careful that it doesn't become a prison that we're stuck in. And it's One of the reasons I call it out is because our brain is a predictive processing machine. some would say. Andy Clark of the Professor of Cognitive Philosophy at Sussex would say in his amazing book. And if our mind is a prediction machine and we're thinking we are, I'm a homeless person, I'm a lonely person, people don't love me. We've, this, this Bias is our behaviour and this is the work I do with psychologists to go into the mind and look at what are our biases? How do we label ourselves? Because actually some of that can predicate actions and behaviour which might lead to loneliness or might lead to isolation. So it's a really important thing about from the outside and from the inside, watching these descriptions, watching these identity types and labels and being careful not to be trapped by them. and at the same time using them for good measure to understand. So it needs this, both and approach I find, which is really, really important. Now being alone, I've worked for myself for a long time and I'm generally, to use a label, I'm, I'm an introvert or I have an introverted nature. Most of the time will be accurate, right? So I love being around people, but I can only do so much. And then I come back to my space and re, regroup. I was curious because I never was like this before the pandemic. literally I have changed in quite a lot of ways. I don't know, various things to do with the pandemic. I, I was, I had COVID very badly. I was out for a month and literally nearly wiped me out, which is surprising because I'm generally quite fit and and it just absolutely knocked me. But for whatever reason, this is how I am now and, and I'm okay with it and I understand what I need. But the pandemic was a destroyer for some people, some people I know, older people, they were going out, let's say a little bit of shopping, catching up with some friends here and there. Soon as that was taken away, their mobility went right down, their movement went right down, their health often collapsed. And it's so sad, certainly for an older generation who have to move. And, and I see lots of problems that have come out of the pandemic. What if, what's your experience, certainly with the work that you're doing, both professionally, personally, since the pandemic, what's this, what has changed for us around how we act and how loneliness and isolation has, has perhaps it's pulled us in, hasn't it? we were imprisoned many ways, locked in, I would actually say it's locked up. it felt like that to me. I'd be, I was told I could not do stuff, which is an imprisonment of sorts. And of course we've come out of it, but there's a collective. Trauma, or there's a collective echo of this still going around. Tell me more from your side. What are you seeing with this?

agree around collective trauma. And I think for so many people it depends on how they entered the pandemic. Did they become unwell? for instance, with the earlier cases of COVID, and I'm really sorry to hear how unwell you were as well with that, and then what is our opportunity coming out? So what we have experienced at TogetherCo is a much higher level of, anxiety and agoraphobia as the reasons people are being referred to us. So people that have, and I can just say in terms of even my own friendship groups actually, people that have never experienced anxiety. what that feels like, or being fearful to go out and about. Suddenly have experienced that because we got told stay in. It's very, very hard to go back out. So that's the first thing I would say we're experiencing. The other thing to say is that before we went into the, lockdowns, there was already people that were very isolated and very lonely and now they are chronically. isolated and lonely because, as you were saying, that one person that would come once a week to take them out was that one bit of movement, that one, and actually, if we do not have that, we decline very, very quickly. The thing I haven't mentioned around loneliness is a really powerful piece of research has shown that loneliness is as bad for us as smoking 15 cigarettes a day. It really is a killer. if people don't get that once a week contact. Sometimes it might have only been once a month. Someone who actually physically comes, sees that person and takes them out, the decline is significant. So actually, people that were lonely becoming chronically lonely as well. And then I think there's some that, what I've noticed is They're trying to now be really busy again and not coping with that. So they're like, oh my gosh I've lost two years of my life and I've got to hurry up So we've come back out and we had a slower pace and now we're trying to be as busy as we once were or more Busy and so you hear how are you? I'm really busy I'm tired, I have to book to see some of my friends five months in advance and that's too much and then people are Needing, oh, there's something wrong with me and I need to go and talk to someone. It's like we're just going too fast back out of it because we're like, hurry up, hurry up. Because I think there's that fear of, okay, this could happen again. we could be locked down again. I could, have my time limited again. So I think it really depends on what came into the pandemic, what your situation was in the pandemic, and how you're coming out of it. And I also don't think for the next few years we are going to realize or see. The impact until we start seeing the younger generations growing up. And a another sort of piece of information that I have on that is I've been speaking to a university and they were having retention issues with students staying, and those students. didn't have 15, 16, 17, going out and about knowing their own boundaries. And suddenly they've come out of the pandemic, go straight to halls of residence at university. And they're asking some of the site managers, Oh, is it okay if I go out? Can I do that? They don't actually know because they didn't have those really formative years kind of learn those things and go through GCSEs and school together. And I don't even, if you then think of all the years prior to that, the generations, so there is going to be some impact, there is going to be some impact, definitely. And that's why, even more so, I'm saying social health, because also, it's learning how to be a social being. And for some people, that they may need to learn how to do that, and some of, some people, are different to others in terms of maybe neurodiversity. So you've got to learn to find your tribe, but know that you belong somewhere. Everyone belongs somewhere, but we've got to do more and be more aware now that that's going to be an issue longer term. Social media is not the solution as well. That's not real connection. So that, that's what I would say in terms of what we're seeing and what I've experienced as well.

that's really interesting. Some of the clients I have seen since the pandemic definitely have shown that the magnification, or let's call it the amplification, of what's going on for them, whether it's heightened anxiety, overly, I work with a lot of people who are highly responsive. We used to use the word highly sensitive, and I used to use that term myself, but I think a more accurate term without the labels, certainly as a man of my generation, sensitive and shame go together. guys who are listening who are 40 plus, right? Sensitive is normal, but actually from a neurological point of view, we are highly responsive. we're very, very aware of feelings and thoughts and all sorts of activities. We have extra reception, which is awareness of what's around us, inter reception. What's happening in your body and the higher responsiveness you have with that is the more you feel, which put a pandemic in, put a world changing, threat of, imminent danger. You're just going to amp that up. And a lot of people come from, certainly to my space with a lot of this sort of amplification of their patterns. and thankfully they come to do the work and change them. So that's a good thing. But yes, I think for, for those who's listening, if you've come out of this and you haven't looked at what's happened. Questions, as you said, April, how did you go in? What did you go in with? Because that might have got amplified and it may need some work. It might be work with family, it might be work with a therapist. It might need simply naming and writing it down. ah, this is what's going on for me. Because the naming and understanding is part of the solution always. Now I'd like to speak to the, the issue of social media and the issue of connection. Now, I'm, I'm of a generation where computers came in roughly when I was, I don't know what, teenage, something like that. So I'm really old, although I'm going to live for a long time because of the way I live, but, today's world is, is predicated and built on social media and connections. And it's great. I love my phone. I love all the tech that gives us lots of opportunities. I think the issue that we have is, is that if we are a lonely person and it's not comfortable to be in a group, hence if I'm out, out for a drink or out for some food, If a group of people, two people at a table, and someone goes to use the bathroom, the other person can't not use their phone. If that's you, then, we all do it to some degree And I find it absolutely fascinating. We just knee jerk towards that addiction. like a smoker reaches for the cigarette. It's exactly the same. Addiction's addiction. And it needs to be named. But as you rightly said, there can be this, let's say, veneer of connection, which could be, thousands of Facebook friends or whatever. When actually human contact now is, is probably less and absolutely more required and more needed to solve this challenge of like, I feel alone or I feel lonely, And I think there's an easy out to use a phone or piece of tech to go, Oh, on WhatsApp or on TikTok or whatever it is that you're playing with. Rather than meet that, probably that existential angst, which is, I feel really uncomfortable. Yeah, and I think it needs naming, and I'm a big fan of naming stuff, because once we name it, it's not a shame. But if you're feeling massively uncomfortable, in my experience, that feeling of loneliness is a tell. all emotions have a reason. It's a tell that, yes, you're disconnected, or you need to reconnect with somebody. And I think that's a really important thing for those of us who are a little more biased towards tech for connection. than we are going out for a coffee with a friend or, talking to a colleague and maybe, going out for some food or, or going to some sport together, something like that. What are you doing with your, certainly with your work and with TogetherCode to, to address that very challenge?

So I think for me, what I wanted to start with, as well as I will come to what we are looking and seeing at with TogetherCo, is something I haven't mentioned yet, is my own loneliness journey. So I was in my 20s. Living in London, and I'd moved up there for work, with a relationship that broke down within the first year, going to work every day, trying to, climb up the career ladder, also during that time I'd had a bereavement, so one of my close friends had sadly died, so there was a lot going on, but what I didn't realise, which I know now, and I wish I'd known, was actually the main thing that was going on for me, was, disconnection from people. So what you were saying about, if you looked at my Facebook, because that's what I used back then, because it's my Facebook at the time for TikTok, I looked like I was having the time of my life. I had. Loads of friends and, you know, atting people and going to these parties and, Oh look, I've just been promoted. But actually, I was living in a part of London where I, I didn't know anybody. Up my road, I didn't know my neighbours, I didn't know the people I was house sharing with. I had to travel across London to see anyone at a weekend. I remember some weekends where I had no plans. where I would literally go and get my nails done or my hair done. And again, that's a privileged position. I could do that, so I'm very mindful of my privilege within that. But that was just to connect, to have a conversation. And for me, it took the realisation, I'll never forget the moment, I was on a train back from Dorset where my family lived after Christmas. And I was going back to London, going to, go back to work, go back to the shared living. And I said, enough's enough. And actually, what I had to do is go What's going on? And I really had to look inside myself to be like, What am I missing? And that's why I said, What am I missing? What am I missing? Because all the lead up to that was, I'd been diagnosed with depression. I had been diagnosed with, panic disorder. I was going to therapy, but there was something else that was not working. The biggest thing that wasn't working was where I was living and not knowing anybody. That started my journey back to Sussex. And back to Brighton, because I also realised through that journalling, which was really powerful for me during that time, I realised the sea was really important. So some people might find woods or parks, the sea is really important. I grew up in Dorset, it was very important. And also Brighton was where I had the most amount of friends in one place, which wasn't a lot. I think it was four, four people. so I was like, they're where most of my friends are. It's by the sea. I know, I know some of the area and so I made the move and I think for me, the reason I'm sharing that is to say, like, all of what's shown on social media and what we do on social media absolutely can be beneficial, during that time, I got to message people and, and, Thank you. connect with someone that I once spoke to when I lived in Australia and things like that, but it was not the same as being physically in a place. like actually on your street or in your town, city, village, knowing people. And that is really, really important. And that is something like, there is a lot of things that social media can be good for. So you can, through social media, find your tribe of a particular condition you might be suffering. So for me, I got to join a forum about anxiety. Brilliant. But it's not going to replace that connection of an actual person being in front of you. And like I said, it doesn't have to be best friends. It can be going to the corner shop and knowing Joe, who runs the corner shop and having a chat every day, going, to the coffee shop. And that's another thing that we're losing less and less of is those. places of connection in our town, cities, villages. So recently, I'll give you an example. They are looking to close ticket stations at train stations. Big concern for me. And so when I bring into what we do at TogetherCo, so TogetherCo has spoken about that and said, hang on a minute. Firstly, people need to connect and a lot of people going to the train station need a conversation. And secondly, their reason for it was modernization. Surely modernisation in this world is actually being inclusive of people, and I was reading about the RNIB did a survey for people who are partially or blind, and only 3 percent of people surveyed from that community would feel comfortable using a machine. actually, this isn't modernisation at all. For me, this is choosing convenience over connection. And that is something bringing TogetherCo back into it. TogetherCo is trying to say, Look, let's not do convenience and cost cutting over connection. Because those small moments of connection, it doesn't have to be big. And that's why I don't want people to feel like, Oh, but I still don't have any, that I don't know people. It doesn't matter. Go and just have a conversation, in your local shop. Go and have a coffee and get to know the coffee owners. Those few moments of connection, it's been proven biologically. Help us every day with our positive emotion. that's what, so we're campaigning it together, Co. But also there's a real personal message from me that I wanted to share at this point to say I have felt lonely. It did cause my mental breakdown. It was caused by my loneliness. My social health impacted my mental health.

thank you. That's a very powerful story and I'm very touched by it. So thank you for sharing and obviously sorry for the loss of your friend. Isn't it interesting, the labelling, and whilst the conditions you may have had at that time, I call them expressions, we call them conditions if you're medical, but depression, panic disorder. I think if we don't look at the environment, like you've already alluded to, like the social health environment, we don't look at what's the bigger picture here? What's going on? And I would actually also say the better question, certainly a question I drop in my coaching a lot, is like, what is not going on? Because we often look at what we're doing, but what are we not doing? I haven't gone to the shop this week, or, I know, I know a client and they work in, tech. and they spend a lot of time with them, tech is what they do. And they don't go out much. I'm like, what do you mean you haven't been out today? What do you mean? I've been out like eight times, I've done seven miles already. And they're like, oh no, I didn't go out. I'm like, wow. And of course, that's, that's not healthy. Humans are wired to connect. And sometimes it, the, what am I not doing question is really powerful. Cause if you are having the experience of depression or you're pulling back, or there's a lot of panic or anxiety, there's a reason why your nervous system, your brain body system is expressing that way. There's a reason for it. It's not wrong. For some people, it's a, a maladaptive condition. And there are other elements to it. But if we don't ask what is going on in the bigger picture, certainly with connections we're speaking to now, then we're really missing the, I think, the message in those situations. And, yeah, amazing. Thank you for sharing that. That was really powerful. And I too heard about that shutting down of ticket offices. And, yeah, the word modernisation, it's very careful. That doesn't mean it's better. oh, it's modernising. It's yeah, the modern world. It doesn't mean it's a better world. And, us... Are rates of anxiety and depression going up? Are suicide rates going up? Hmm. Are we having issues with the economy and the environment? we know the answer to these questions. They're pretty bleak. And there's a reason for this. Now, we can't solve all the problems in one go. But if one of the issues are disconnection from other people, the answer is quite simple. Not necessarily easy, but simple. It's reconnect with other And let's look at how that might happen. I want to speak to... So some of my audience are... like you said to, earlier in our, in our conversation, they're surrounded by lots of people and they have people in their lives and they're busy and probably successful to some degree and yet have that gnawing feeling, that feeling if you're in, you're on your own for a minute in the shower or there's something missing, there's something wrong with me and I coach a lot of people who do really well in many aspects, but existentially there's a hole, there's a problem and we go to that. We're like, what is that? And as you've already alluded to, that if loneliness is, you're at the top, you're, hey, look, you're a CEO of your company, but it's lonely at the top for a lot of people. A lot of people don't challenge that. And there's also a facade. If you're a CEO or founder, there's a facade. People don't get to see the real you, perhaps, because that's just not how it works. And I noticed that that's a. Pernicious, slightly more subtle way of people being lonely or isolated, and yet they're in a busy room and they're in a busy life, and yet they're empty. And, and that's a really interesting one. How would you speak to that person? What might they be doing to change their experience of loneliness, even though they have physical people around? What would you say in your, your professional experience, what can they do?

I think that's such an important point you've raised because often people get alone, confused with loneliness. And actually some people are alone. And solitude is actually something very positive and be, can be really an amazing space to connect with yourself. But then you'll have individuals that are in this room ha look on paper like they've got great social health, but they just don't feel that. And I think for me, the key. message, and I can only speak really of my own experience, as you said, of being a CEO or being a senior leader for many years, somebody who has themselves struggled significantly with loneliness, it has been, for me, about meaning, what gives meaning to my life? What is it that makes buzz? What gives me flow? What is it that I just love doing and having that filtered out in parts of your week so that you can come back to that because a key point for me is when I am going to these big events and, when I am CEO at work, accountable to the staff that I serve, accountable to the board that I serve, sometimes I feel like I've had to armor up or I feel that there has to be a few shades of me. And then you, you can move away from your authentic self. So we need ways, and I, and I really recommend coaching, and speaking to someone on this as well, we need ways to come back to who we are, what gives us meaning, so we're not the Fifty Shades, maybe we're three shades of ourselves, but we know who we are. So I think that's what I've had to think, how can I bring... me to my work as much as possible. So firstly, becoming a CEO was never important to me. The loneliness mission was. So that's, because I'm, I'm working for a cause I just believe in, it's really helped my wellbeing in many different ways. also knowing, and it's very interesting, you spoke about, being introverted, knowing. that it's okay to be an introverted leader because I didn't know that. I thought, you look at all leaders and it's extroverted and I should love this. I should love all these networking. And I don't, I do it and I do it for the cause because I'm passionate for the cause, but I have to the next day have a day free with no socializing. So I do things a lot more like I go to the cinema on my own quite a lot. I go for walks on my own. I go to the sea on my own because I know that's where I find some I also know what's important to me. But I've, I've done work. I've, I've always had a mentor, that's important to say, and a coach. And I believe so much in the power of someone standing next to you, holding that mirror and, and being able to talk back to you, but that you don't have to on your own. You really, really don't. So I think if you're feeling like that, It's okay. You need to find a way, whether that's through journaling, whether that's through coaching, whether that's through, you can do some great strength, free strength finders to look at what your strengths are, values and action, the VIA surveys, brilliant. Oh, that's what I love. I know I love learning. So I'm always going to want to be in a role that's learning. Try and look at who, you have strengths. Everyone has gifts and strengths. Find those, find that part of you. Thank you. And that's what's going to bring you back to yourselves in moments that sometimes we have to perform or have to bring a certain different self to a role, but you don't want to be out in that all the time. And I think for me in my loneliness, when it was really bad and I may become lonely again in life, but when it was really bad, it's because I felt like I was dipping into everyone else's life. I feel I was performing at work and I was like, where's April? Who is April? So that's for me what I feel.

the term I use when I've had that experience to some degree, not as much as you, but it's I've lost my centre. I've lost the centre of who I am and, we, we are chameleon esque. Humans are very good at chameleon esque people and leaders and people in their businesses are good. It's great to be a salesperson, perhaps the ambassador, maybe it's the front of house, whatever it is you do. And, and this sort of flexibility itself is utterly natural. And I think it's a great skill set we should all master. not at the expense of losing your centre. It's like if you're not anchored to a centre point of who you are at your core, then we start to, we slip into patterns. People know people pleasing, imposter syndrome. They're all built on very shaky egos or very fragile egos, which are actually not really egos. They're conceptual egos, which is a lot of work I do is to break that ego, not healthily. And let the real ego come out, the real self come out. It's, it's deep. it reminds me of the old. quote, or the existential theory around bad faith. If, I like a bit of existentialism. Yeah. And I've, as from positive psychology, I trained with, one of the guys who used to lead the course there. brilliant guy. we talk about bad faith in the existential, that the example is this, it's a very old one. If there was a waiter, being all gregarious and lovely and serving the, serving the coffees and teas, and they went home, was all miserable and downbeat. They, they would call that as bad faith. We might call it, in modern terms, disingenuous. I think there's something really important about not losing your core centre, even if you're a leader, whatever you have to do, because if you've still got those attributes, those qualities, those strengths, they shine through. How you apply those strengths is skill. So if you are, passionate about what you do, honest, trustworthy, don't take, don't take any rubbish from people. That can be your way of being, how you deploy it can be skillful and elegant, but if you start to not meet those honest, authentic parts of you, I think that starts to become in some ways an isolation from our inner self and Little steep into there's internal family systems. There's a psychological principle model. You might Psychosynthesis sort of deals with this We talk a lot about the, the internal family, the parts of ourselves, and, and when you do the inner works, sometimes we have an isolated part and those who've been through therapy, you might know this, those who, if you haven't had al therapy, we often have a part of us, which we don't like, or we've closed it down. It could, it could be the Revel, it could be the kid, it could either it's one of these parts or it got shamed, certainly in the male domain, which I can speak to with my own experience. is that part got shamed. So that's not okay to be that version of you. You have to be, certainly the nonsense I was growing up in, strong, masculine, I'm a really sensitive individual. I was like, no, that's not going to cut it. You have to be strong and tough and hard. And, and, and so part of that softer, gentle part of me got closed down for many years until I did the work to let that part be seen and also brought back in. So that internal isolation and loneliness can happen as well. It's a more of a... Deeper level of working, but I think it's worth naming because it can be going on for many people and that internal It's like there's something wrong. There's a dissonance within It needs looking at because actually it's it's an expression what often happens on the outside That we April social health. Let's let's get let's get practical now Let's we've got our listeners have lots and lots of understanding and knowledge What are the pillars, what are the pieces of social health? So if someone's thinking, yeah, you know what, this is exactly the stuff I need to attend to right now, that's what's going on for me. What are the key things in social health can we flag up and go, these are the pieces that make it. What would you say?

So the first thing is with social health is relationships. So what I would suggest is looking at your current relationships with people. So I don't know if people are aware of, Dunbar's rule of the 150. people, which is actually shown through anthropology that that's our limit. Actually, the hundreds of thousands of followers, it's not going to happen. So firstly, it's okay to only have a few people in your life. Maximum of people you can actually connect with, they say, is about 150. But what's key is, think about those individuals that are important to you in your life, that when you're with them, they give you energy. Note those individuals down. Think about those people that you like an activity with. You go and do an activity. Note those people down and think about how much time you're spending with those individuals or how much timing instead of spending with those individuals, you're scrolling on your phone or you're working overtime. So I would just do a bit of a summary of. These are the people that give me energy. It could be one or two as well. And it may be at this moment you're not sure, which then that's telling you I want to find those people. That's okay as well. You can start to find these people. So you want to build up a network of people that you know in your hardest moments you would be wanting to call on. And that takes time, I've got to say as well, but just key is people that like what you like, and you're going to go and do stuff together, like one of my friends, when they moved to Brighton, they didn't know many people, they knew myself, they didn't know many people, they loved volleyball, so they joined volleyball, they've now got a massive network of friendships, and it's fantastic, and friends are meeting friends, so that's the first thing, I would say, is do that, start building that up, and just in your week, just like we do with mental health, where we go, I'm going to do mindfulness, Physical health, I'm going to go to the gym, social health, I'm going to see Joe because Joe and me have a great giggle and I've had a really tough week and I'm going to commit, I'm not going to work late, so you add that bit in. The other thing I would say is don't overlook kindness and giving. So every day you have an opportunity to increase your well being by doing really small acts of kindness throughout the day, giving to others. So that could be, get off your phone, look up on the bus and smile at the person in front of you. You see someone struggling with their shopping and they live three doors down, pick up that shopping, carry it for them. I promise you, that will help you just as much, if not more than the person you're helping. You can take that help further as well. And actually, things like volunteering, and I know I'm obviously going to speak about this because of being charity CEO, but I cannot tell you the amount of corporates that bring their teams to our social events and the teams afterwards say it's one of the most amazing experiences they've had because they get to give back to their local community, they get to have conversations with people they never usually get to meet, and so volunteering really is an incredible way to help your own well being. It doesn't have to be massive. It doesn't have to be long term. It could be, okay, I'm going to go and do this fundraiser. I'm going to go and do one event for this charity. Think about a cause. We talked about meaning. What gives you meaning? What has helped you in your life? So obviously, as you can tell, for me, loneliness is important for me. for my, Dad, um, his sister, got early onset dementia, so he does a lot of work supporting, dementia research. the real, there will be, that will give you meaning, because it's something that's important to you, but also, you're giving. And, thinking about this the other day, actually, I took a picture in a, a local bookshop I went into for the self help section. Massive self help section. And I was like, one day, wouldn't it be amazing that there's a help others section? Because, and you spoke about this really well earlier, Sal, about the individual being prioritised, which obviously is important, but actually, helping your community, helping one another, needs to be equally prioritised, because that's what's going to help you feel Thank you. more grounded, more connected, that's going to help you recognise what you love. But also those daily acts of kindness, just like your daily acts of gratitude, really are powerful. They increase your positive emotion. They're just as powerful as going for a run, in the gym, which is really equally as good. But we must start thinking of these other social aspects as well.

Really, really nice. Absolutely amazing. We're going to capture those and put those points in the show notes for everyone. amazing. what struck me when you said there about, yes, we're individuals, that's what I coach with. Here's the thing, we're also the other. I'm the other to you, or to a person who passes me on the bus, or on the street, or whatever it is. So we're actually the other anyway. We forget that. We are the other, as well as the individual. So when we realise that, we realise that, actually we're both. And I think that... Hopefully you can break down the barriers a little bit, the psychological barriers about oh, should I do this, should I do this? No, you're the other. It's okay, because what if someone helped you if you, I don't know, had a shoulder injury and you couldn't carry your bag? Someone said, oh, do you want a hand? Oh, thanks, lovely. amazing. Really, really cool. Last, I really want to just capture some clear things on what Together Code do, because it's really important. You've got some great programming, and it also will help encapsulate for everyone listening, what's... You do as a profession, what you know works. What, tell me a little bit, just a little, the pricey of your, you guys, what you do in your programs.

Fantastic. Yes. So Together Co, as we spoke about, it's a loneliness charity based in Brighton and Hove. So it's all about developing your social health. We have two main programs. The first one is social prescribing. And this is something really important just to touch on actually, is National, program and you can go to your GP or you might find us in job centers and basically it's a professional called a link worker that will help you around ways to connect. So it might be connecting with some financial advice or housing advice, but also it might be ways you want to connect in your local community. You might be a newcomer to the city. So we oversee social prescribing. So wherever you live in the UK, you can look up social prescribing and also you can go to your GP and talk about that as well. The other part is befriending. And so I talk about with volunteers. So we match people across the city in neighbourhoods to become friends. And I cannot tell you the amount of beautiful stories of. people needing people and that people are just wanting to be together. But also, if it wasn't for TogetherCo, which has been going for 20 years, way before, I came on board, those friendships wouldn't have happened. And some of those friendships last a lifetime. And because of that, people at the end, so dying well is as important as living well, people have a friend at the end. And if TogetherCo hadn't matched them, they wouldn't have had anybody. this is powerful. everybody deserves somebody. We come, we don't come into this world fully alone. Our wonderful mothers bring us into this world and we shouldn't go out on our own as well. And then sadly, People do. So that's something very, very important to us and something we've been delivering, like I said, for many, many years. But we need more volunteers and we also just have a whole range of volunteer programs. So anyone that wants to get involved, we don't say no. We say, come on board, what's your skills? How do you wanna get involved? Because then they build up networks. 'cause we have volunteer events, so they become friends as well. So that's a range of, of what we do, locally. There is other, so if anyone's. thinking, wow, okay, but I don't live in Sussex. There's lots of other fantastic loneliness charities across the uk. You've got the Joe Cox Foundation in London, you've got the Marmalade Trust in Bristol. so there's lots of others as well. Age, UKs across the country do a lot of, uh, working with older people. But what I would just wanna stress as well, that loneliness is not an older person It affects. All of us have many points of our lives. Young people are really affected by it right now. There's a brilliant co op foundation program called Lonely Not Alone. Really, if you've got, children, I recommend going and just being mindful of that and what that might be happening for your children around loneliness. It can affect people who are newcomers to cities. It's affecting men that we've talked, you've spoken about with, the connection and being able to reach out sadly high suicide rates. New mothers. Seriously affected as well. So it isn't just, Oh, it's an old person thing. I don't need to worry about it. Actually, it can affect us all. Like I've spoken about, it affected me in my early twenties and it may do again. So lots of options. I hope that explained quite well a range of what we do, but also I'm just very passionate. Wherever you are, go and have a research about ways you can connect locally as well.

Brilliant, thank you for sharing and we will of course put your show note, in the show notes, details to, to learn more, to, to see it together, code, all the programs that will go in there. yeah, I'm really struck, because we, we, we, we had a, an initial conversation before this and. The feeling of loneliness. It's so easy in a busy world to not think about social health and to get caught up running a business, super busy, maybe you're a parent and then it's when you sit down that, that uncomfortable feeling, there's something up and disconnection wherever it is, between your mind and your body, between you and your family, between us and our community and I see between us and the environment. If we can reconnect, good things happen. a really powerful subject. Thanks. I am so thankful for you sharing your experience, but personally, professionally, it's really fascinating to hear. Thank you, April. And of course, let's meet up for a cup of coffee in real life.

Yes, let's do it. Social health.

health. So my dear listeners, I trust there is many, many things that you've got from that. But if there's one thing you can take from it, action is traction. So if there's something going on for you, whether it's you want to find out about volunteering, whether you want to solve your own challenges, or a friend's, whatever it might be, take action. Action means change. until the next time, take care. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, please subscribe and if a friend would benefit from hearing this, do send it on to them as well. If you would like to get in touch yourself, then you can go to my website, which is sal jeffries.com, spelled S A L J E F E R I E s sal jeffries.com. Hit the get in touch link and there you can send me a direct message. If you'd like to go one step further and learn whether coaching could help you overcome a challenge or a block in your life, then do reach out and I offer a call where we can discuss how this may be able to help you. Until the next time, take care.