1 00:00:04,050 --> 00:00:08,119 Welcome to the eCommerce podcast with me, your host, Matt Edmundson. 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:14,480 Now the eCommerce Podcast is all about helping you to deliver eCommerce wow. 3 00:00:14,860 --> 00:00:19,680 And I am super excited with today's guest who is gonna help us do just that 4 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:21,760 Steven spear from e-commerce lending. 5 00:00:22,090 --> 00:00:23,660 We are gonna be talking about how to 6 00:00:23,660 --> 00:00:28,689 successfully grow your eCommerce empire through acquisition. 7 00:00:28,990 --> 00:00:33,490 But before we jump into that conversation, let me suggest a few 8 00:00:33,490 --> 00:00:38,450 of the eCommerce podcast episodes to listen to that tie into this whole 9 00:00:38,830 --> 00:00:43,175 big topic of buying, selling and scaling your eCommerce business. 10 00:00:43,295 --> 00:00:46,535 Check out my conversation with Brad Wayland on how to 11 00:00:46,535 --> 00:00:47,935 sell your eCommerce business. 12 00:00:48,275 --> 00:00:53,695 And also my fantastic conversation with Ben Leonard on how to effectively set 13 00:00:53,695 --> 00:00:57,095 up and scale your business for sale. 14 00:00:57,315 --> 00:00:57,735 Yes. 15 00:00:57,985 --> 00:00:59,775 Uh, and just FYI. 16 00:00:59,955 --> 00:01:04,215 Ben is gonna be coming back to the podcast very shortly as far as I can tell. 17 00:01:04,474 --> 00:01:05,254 Yes, he is. 18 00:01:05,254 --> 00:01:06,215 He's an upcoming guest. 19 00:01:06,215 --> 00:01:10,515 So make sure you subscribe to hear all the latest happenings 20 00:01:10,515 --> 00:01:12,195 with that fine young fellow. 21 00:01:12,455 --> 00:01:17,595 Now this episode is brought to you by the eCommerce Cohort, which helps you to 22 00:01:17,595 --> 00:01:20,715 deliver eCommerce well to your customers. 23 00:01:20,975 --> 00:01:26,375 You may ask the eCommerce Cohort, what is the eCommerce cohort Matt? 24 00:01:26,715 --> 00:01:32,740 Well, let me tell you it is a brand new mastermind type group. 25 00:01:32,740 --> 00:01:33,460 Yes, it is. 26 00:01:33,620 --> 00:01:38,980 Every month a new sprint is released by the eCommerce cohort, which covers an 27 00:01:38,980 --> 00:01:41,860 area of eCommerce that you can listen to. 28 00:01:41,860 --> 00:01:44,100 You can listen to experts is online. 29 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,460 You can access at your own pace and it will help you grow and 30 00:01:48,460 --> 00:01:51,315 scale your online business. 31 00:01:51,315 --> 00:01:55,275 So whether you are just starting out or whether like me, you are, you 32 00:01:55,275 --> 00:01:56,915 are a well established eCommercer. 33 00:01:57,245 --> 00:02:00,755 Uh, I wanna encourage you to check it out because I'm convinced 34 00:02:01,095 --> 00:02:02,595 you will benefit from it. 35 00:02:02,595 --> 00:02:02,755 So. 36 00:02:03,420 --> 00:02:10,990 Head over to eCommercecohort.com uh, for more information, uh, they are gearing 37 00:02:10,990 --> 00:02:15,150 up for their founding member launch and depending actually on when this 38 00:02:15,150 --> 00:02:17,230 comes out, it may have just happened. 39 00:02:17,519 --> 00:02:20,790 Uh, so do check it out because there's some great starter prices. 40 00:02:20,790 --> 00:02:24,059 Let me tell you, uh, any questions let me know, email me directly at 41 00:02:24,059 --> 00:02:28,790 matt@ecommercepodcast.net, and I will try my level best to answer them. 42 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:35,280 Now, all of that said without further ado, here's my conversation with Stephen. 43 00:02:36,090 --> 00:02:42,740 Well, I am here with the amazing Stephen Speer who is well, he's the 44 00:02:42,740 --> 00:02:46,220 founder and CEO of eCommerce lending. 45 00:02:46,220 --> 00:02:49,700 He's over three decades of lending experience and has 46 00:02:49,700 --> 00:02:53,300 helped hundreds of entrepreneurs achieve business success through 47 00:02:54,730 --> 00:02:55,630 acquisition. 48 00:02:55,630 --> 00:02:56,910 That's right, buying or selling. 49 00:02:57,299 --> 00:03:02,149 I kind of view this chap as the monopoly expert of e-commerce, you know, how do I 50 00:03:02,149 --> 00:03:06,109 buy and sell property, that whole kind of thing, but actually do that in e-commerce. 51 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:08,670 Uh, he is a lender, a guest speaker. 52 00:03:09,019 --> 00:03:11,469 He's a mergers and acquisitions instructor. 53 00:03:11,469 --> 00:03:14,790 I didn't even know those things existed, but this guy is one of them. 54 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:19,709 Uh, and with his firm, he has funded over 350 transactions total. 55 00:03:19,709 --> 00:03:24,760 And check this out, drum roll Four Hundred Million Dollars, uh, making 56 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:31,160 them the top lender in the US in this very, very specialized niche. 57 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:33,920 So I'm super excited to have Stephen on the show. 58 00:03:33,920 --> 00:03:34,749 Stephen, welcome. 59 00:03:34,749 --> 00:03:35,959 Great that you are here. 60 00:03:36,250 --> 00:03:38,560 Uh that's one heck of a resume you've got there, 61 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:38,839 bud. 62 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:40,000 Thank you, Matt. 63 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:41,279 And thanks for having me on. 64 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:43,490 I know it's crazy. 65 00:03:43,490 --> 00:03:44,290 It's great, you're here. 66 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,650 I, how did you, um, did you just wake up one day and think, you know 67 00:03:48,650 --> 00:03:52,250 what, I, I just want to get into this whole money lending thing. 68 00:03:52,250 --> 00:03:53,930 I mean, was there something you saw on TV? 69 00:03:53,930 --> 00:03:55,450 How did, how did that all start for you? 70 00:03:56,540 --> 00:04:00,410 On the lending side or the eCommerce side or eCommerce and lending? 71 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:02,090 Well, let's put 'em both together. 72 00:04:02,090 --> 00:04:02,850 Yeah, let's do that. 73 00:04:03,685 --> 00:04:08,095 Yeah, on the, on the eCommerce side, um, I had a client, this 74 00:04:08,095 --> 00:04:09,215 was about eight years ago. 75 00:04:09,215 --> 00:04:13,095 I had a client come to me and, and, um, he was looking to acquire businesses, 76 00:04:13,095 --> 00:04:17,575 but most of our discussion was around brick and mortar, uh, acquisitions. 77 00:04:17,945 --> 00:04:22,935 Um, not necessarily eCommerce, which eight years ago, believe it or not, everybody 78 00:04:22,935 --> 00:04:25,135 eCommerce was not, uh, was very new. 79 00:04:25,784 --> 00:04:30,975 Um, and he said he came to me, you know, after I had been in discussions 80 00:04:30,975 --> 00:04:34,495 with him, maybe for a month, and then he came to me saying, listen, I'm 81 00:04:34,495 --> 00:04:36,094 looking to buy an eCommerce business. 82 00:04:36,094 --> 00:04:38,534 And I was like, okay, tell me a little bit about that. 83 00:04:39,275 --> 00:04:41,414 And, um, do you lend in the space? 84 00:04:41,435 --> 00:04:45,055 And I knew nothing about eCommerce eight years ago and I said, 85 00:04:45,055 --> 00:04:46,775 well, um, I don't see why not. 86 00:04:47,585 --> 00:04:50,685 And obviously there are a lot of nuances within the space, but 87 00:04:50,685 --> 00:04:53,805 he was trying to acquire an FBA business, an Amazon FBA business. 88 00:04:53,805 --> 00:04:54,284 Yeah. 89 00:04:54,625 --> 00:04:57,184 And, and it kind of led one thing to another. 90 00:04:57,205 --> 00:05:01,645 And I did some research and realized, um, not only could I lend in the space, 91 00:05:01,645 --> 00:05:04,685 but nobody else was lending in the space. 92 00:05:05,294 --> 00:05:09,005 So I saw a very large opportunity and, uh, I went for it. 93 00:05:09,145 --> 00:05:14,245 And, you know, close to we're at, I think over half a billion dollars worth of 94 00:05:14,245 --> 00:05:16,325 funding within the e-commerce space now. 95 00:05:16,785 --> 00:05:20,770 Be it digital businesses, you know, we look at SA we do finance SAAS. 96 00:05:20,790 --> 00:05:25,270 We finance more product based businesses as well, but, uh, it's been a fun ride. 97 00:05:25,270 --> 00:05:26,470 It's been incredible. 98 00:05:27,475 --> 00:05:31,525 That, I mean in eight years to loan out half a billion dollars. 99 00:05:32,075 --> 00:05:36,805 I mean, I dunno what the math on that is, but that's, that's some going, right? 100 00:05:36,805 --> 00:05:40,485 I mean, that's, uh, that if you don't mind me asking, um, just cause I'm kind 101 00:05:40,485 --> 00:05:44,685 of curious, even if I'm honest with you, what is the typical amount that somebody 102 00:05:44,685 --> 00:05:47,205 would borrow to buy an eCommerce business? 103 00:05:48,195 --> 00:05:51,205 Well, it's ever increasing our average amount. 104 00:05:51,315 --> 00:05:56,665 This year is about $3 million of loan. 105 00:05:57,075 --> 00:06:00,865 Uh, a lot of our deals are around the, around the four to 5 million range. 106 00:06:00,865 --> 00:06:05,345 Now they've, uh, as we all know, the, the sale of eCommerce 107 00:06:05,745 --> 00:06:09,785 businesses, um, you know, the price points have increased drastically. 108 00:06:09,785 --> 00:06:13,505 Mm-hmm , especially over the last three years, there are a lot of aggregators 109 00:06:13,505 --> 00:06:19,850 in the marketplace, a lot of demand, um, and relatively, pretty short supply 110 00:06:20,100 --> 00:06:24,250 of businesses for sale relative to how many buyers are in the marketplace. 111 00:06:24,250 --> 00:06:27,850 So that's, that's driven at prices, um, so that our price 112 00:06:27,850 --> 00:06:29,250 point continues to increase. 113 00:06:29,380 --> 00:06:32,530 Um, but we do, uh, you know, we get involved with deals 114 00:06:32,580 --> 00:06:36,130 roughly around a million dollars and now up to $250 million. 115 00:06:36,900 --> 00:06:43,130 Um, so kind of a wide range, but, uh, the majority of our fundings have 116 00:06:43,130 --> 00:06:44,570 been around a 3 million dollar range. 117 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:46,460 It's interesting. 118 00:06:46,479 --> 00:06:46,800 Isn't it? 119 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,680 That, that's the sort of the number that is now the, the average cuz 120 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,800 I'm pre COVID, um, the pre pandemic. 121 00:06:54,530 --> 00:06:57,439 Um, was it, was it lower than 3 million? 122 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,400 I'm gonna kind of guess that it is, but I'm, I'm curious. 123 00:07:00,150 --> 00:07:01,120 Yeah, it was about 124 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:11,305 1.8 million and obviously in 2020, um, the percentage of retail sales that were in 125 00:07:11,305 --> 00:07:14,225 this space drastically increased mm-hmm 126 00:07:14,305 --> 00:07:18,505 So that did bring up the, you know, bring up the price point because again, supply 127 00:07:18,505 --> 00:07:23,985 and demand, um, it did have an effect and, you know, everybody thought it was 128 00:07:23,985 --> 00:07:27,784 a COVID bump, but really that bump still there and Covid's pretty much gone. 129 00:07:27,875 --> 00:07:31,665 So mm-hmm um, because a lot of people, including my own 130 00:07:31,665 --> 00:07:33,465 mother never shopped online. 131 00:07:34,175 --> 00:07:38,045 Um, really didn't do anything online, primarily went to, uh, 132 00:07:38,205 --> 00:07:40,765 shopping malls to, to acquire goods. 133 00:07:41,235 --> 00:07:44,285 And now all those people realized during COVID like, gosh, this is great. 134 00:07:44,355 --> 00:07:47,085 I could order a pair of shoes and next day it's at my doorstep. 135 00:07:47,175 --> 00:07:49,325 So, um, that's still 136 00:07:49,325 --> 00:07:49,525 there. 137 00:07:50,575 --> 00:07:51,505 That's incredible. 138 00:07:51,505 --> 00:07:51,905 Isn't it? 139 00:07:51,905 --> 00:07:56,385 And there has it gone from 1.8 million to 3 million, 140 00:07:57,085 --> 00:08:00,215 the business in effect has stayed the same, it's just the value has increased 141 00:08:00,215 --> 00:08:05,245 because of what's happened in the last few years or has it gone up from 1.8 142 00:08:05,245 --> 00:08:11,164 to 3 million because actually the, the value, the, the amount of business 143 00:08:11,164 --> 00:08:14,844 that the, the website is doing has increased, or maybe a combination of both. 144 00:08:15,275 --> 00:08:19,485 I think a combination of both just definitely we've seen revenues for 145 00:08:19,685 --> 00:08:21,534 businesses go up, considerably. 146 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:26,300 And also the demand going up, uh, for, to, to acquire businesses have gone up, 147 00:08:26,390 --> 00:08:31,740 um, you know, stratospherically and those two things have brought up price points. 148 00:08:31,790 --> 00:08:35,740 Uh, many of our deals just on our production boards here are 149 00:08:35,740 --> 00:08:37,500 well over $5 million right now. 150 00:08:38,030 --> 00:08:41,659 Uh, we're involved in a few deals above the $20 million range. 151 00:08:42,350 --> 00:08:46,740 Um, but again, you know, for you listeners out there, we're trying 152 00:08:46,740 --> 00:08:51,540 to acquire a million dollar business or a business for 750 thousand 153 00:08:51,560 --> 00:08:55,040 dollars, whatever, there's still a lot of great opportunities out there. 154 00:08:55,150 --> 00:08:58,600 Mm-hmm but yes, price points have increased, uh, 155 00:08:58,600 --> 00:08:59,280 drastically. 156 00:08:59,949 --> 00:09:01,120 Yeah, that's interesting. 157 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,800 It's a bit like I probably the wrong analogy, Stephen, if I'm honest 158 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,199 with you, but it's, it's a bit like one of the things I noticed 159 00:09:07,199 --> 00:09:08,880 over COVID was the price of timber. 160 00:09:09,689 --> 00:09:10,720 Uh, went. 161 00:09:11,645 --> 00:09:16,195 It was the same piece of wood, but the next day was like three times 162 00:09:16,195 --> 00:09:17,795 more than what it was the day before. 163 00:09:17,795 --> 00:09:23,755 And so it feels like everything has gone up, uh, in value, uh, you know, in 164 00:09:23,755 --> 00:09:28,115 cost, and so actual eCommerce businesses buying an eCommerce business, uh, 165 00:09:28,115 --> 00:09:30,115 hasn't seemed to have escaped that. 166 00:09:30,115 --> 00:09:30,475 Right? 167 00:09:31,405 --> 00:09:32,075 Correct. 168 00:09:32,095 --> 00:09:34,875 And also you have, at least in this country, you have, 169 00:09:35,365 --> 00:09:36,915 uh, supply chain problems. 170 00:09:38,175 --> 00:09:40,915 And that's really impacted the cost of good. 171 00:09:40,925 --> 00:09:45,115 So the landed costs have increased and ultimately businesses are passing 172 00:09:45,115 --> 00:09:46,835 those costs onto the consumer. 173 00:09:47,365 --> 00:09:51,115 Um, I brought, I bought a pair of tennis shoes about a year and 174 00:09:51,115 --> 00:09:56,194 a half ago for about $180 and I just bought a new pair replacing 175 00:09:56,194 --> 00:09:59,675 those, um, those trainers at $230. 176 00:09:59,675 --> 00:10:01,155 So that's just a perfect example. 177 00:10:01,345 --> 00:10:02,995 Same shoe, identical. 178 00:10:04,105 --> 00:10:07,605 and, uh, it went up that much just in a matter of a year and a half. 179 00:10:08,595 --> 00:10:10,125 Yeah, it's crazy, isn't it? 180 00:10:10,125 --> 00:10:14,605 So, so here we are, right, um, I guess then there's two sides 181 00:10:14,605 --> 00:10:15,885 isn't there to your expertise. 182 00:10:15,885 --> 00:10:20,564 There's the side, which says I can help you buy your eCommerce business, 183 00:10:20,564 --> 00:10:23,165 so growth by acquisition, which I want to get into first. 184 00:10:23,324 --> 00:10:24,405 We'll we'll touch on that first. 185 00:10:24,584 --> 00:10:28,814 But the second part of this conversation, um, that I want to sort of dig into, 186 00:10:28,814 --> 00:10:33,135 just to, dear listener, let you know what's coming up is actually how to get 187 00:10:33,135 --> 00:10:37,055 your business prepared already to sell to somebody who maybe wants to buy. 188 00:10:37,055 --> 00:10:40,295 Cause I two sides of the same coin, I suppose. 189 00:10:40,295 --> 00:10:44,255 And I guess you get to see it from both sides and so I'm kind of curious, uh, on 190 00:10:44,255 --> 00:10:46,375 this whole topic to pick your brain now. 191 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:55,020 One question I have is, um, uh, growth by acquisition is to me, one of those 192 00:10:55,020 --> 00:10:59,380 relatively untalked about ideas for growing your eCommerce business, 193 00:10:59,380 --> 00:10:59,740 right? 194 00:10:59,750 --> 00:11:03,420 So if I'm an eCommerce entrepreneur, if I'm wanting to get into the 195 00:11:03,420 --> 00:11:08,020 eCommerce space and I kind of look, I, I need budget for this marketing 196 00:11:08,020 --> 00:11:11,020 and that marketing I've gotta grow and I understand who my competitors are. 197 00:11:11,490 --> 00:11:16,030 I rarely have conversations with people about, well maybe you 198 00:11:16,230 --> 00:11:18,790 should buy one of your competitors. 199 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:24,150 So is, is growth by acquisition, a strategy that maybe we 200 00:11:24,150 --> 00:11:25,590 should be thinking about more? 201 00:11:27,340 --> 00:11:30,830 I think so because, um, you're not in a position where you're 202 00:11:30,830 --> 00:11:31,870 trying to recreate the wheel. 203 00:11:32,060 --> 00:11:36,675 You're buying an established business and um, you know, many sellers of 204 00:11:36,675 --> 00:11:41,035 those businesses, um, you know, brought the business to a certain level, but 205 00:11:41,035 --> 00:11:44,395 there's so much low hanging fruit with the, with the person, with the right 206 00:11:44,635 --> 00:11:49,314 business acumen to really catapult the business and continue that growth. 207 00:11:49,605 --> 00:11:52,275 Um, and it's really hard to start a business. 208 00:11:52,345 --> 00:11:55,275 I mean, you're starting from scratch or having to figure things out. 209 00:11:55,725 --> 00:11:59,355 So if you're, if, if you buy a business, let's say even a two year 210 00:11:59,355 --> 00:12:03,850 old business, where the seller brought it to a certain baseline and you're 211 00:12:03,850 --> 00:12:05,330 able to kind of run with it from there. 212 00:12:05,330 --> 00:12:06,330 It's a lot easier. 213 00:12:06,330 --> 00:12:10,530 And also, um, you're able to, when you grow through acquisition, you're 214 00:12:10,530 --> 00:12:13,130 able to buy businesses that are run. 215 00:12:13,130 --> 00:12:16,210 If you, if you have a portfolio businesses, you know, grow the, 216 00:12:16,210 --> 00:12:20,770 or, um, you're able to run them the same way, you know, roughly, you 217 00:12:20,770 --> 00:12:23,730 know, if they have roughly the same business model mm-hmm . So you're 218 00:12:23,730 --> 00:12:28,410 really able to kind of grow portfolio businesses, running them the same way. 219 00:12:28,910 --> 00:12:34,089 And oftentimes have economies of scale mm-hmm and, and ultimately 220 00:12:34,089 --> 00:12:35,449 really succeed that way. 221 00:12:35,449 --> 00:12:39,850 And, and a lot of our clients, um, do that, you know, they're not looking to 222 00:12:40,010 --> 00:12:44,250 recreate the wheel, they're looking to buy a business with kind of a baseline amount 223 00:12:44,250 --> 00:12:47,130 of sales and really, really push it. 224 00:12:47,300 --> 00:12:50,130 Um, you know, continuing that growth pattern. 225 00:12:51,714 --> 00:12:52,135 One 226 00:12:52,135 --> 00:12:55,495 of the, um, interesting things that happened to us during COVID was we 227 00:12:55,495 --> 00:12:59,655 were approached by a lot more people to buy our eCommerce business. 228 00:12:59,655 --> 00:13:05,824 We had a, a, an online beauty business and we sold that actually last year. 229 00:13:06,155 --> 00:13:11,104 Um, and the person that purchased that business was 230 00:13:11,265 --> 00:13:12,425 actually one of our competitors. 231 00:13:12,675 --> 00:13:16,145 Uh, and it seemed to me for them 232 00:13:17,925 --> 00:13:24,115 to be a great fit because it was kind of plug and play in, in a lot of ways, 233 00:13:24,445 --> 00:13:27,155 um, that they already had the warehouse. 234 00:13:27,155 --> 00:13:29,435 They already knew how to distribute beauty products. 235 00:13:29,435 --> 00:13:31,555 They already knew how to market beauty products. 236 00:13:31,555 --> 00:13:34,395 They already under, there's a lot of stuff they on, they understood. 237 00:13:34,395 --> 00:13:38,675 And so, um, they were very clear in what aspects or what parts of the 238 00:13:38,835 --> 00:13:40,275 business they wanted to buy from us. 239 00:13:41,055 --> 00:13:47,215 Um, But is if I'm thinking here, actually, uh, okay. 240 00:13:47,215 --> 00:13:48,895 I wanna look at growth by acquisition. 241 00:13:49,555 --> 00:13:55,785 Are competitors a reasonable person to look at buying or should 242 00:13:55,785 --> 00:13:57,345 I, or should I look at buying? 243 00:13:57,495 --> 00:14:02,025 I don't know if I sell, um, uh, I've got water bottles on my desk, 244 00:14:02,025 --> 00:14:03,745 as let's say I sell water bottles. 245 00:14:03,745 --> 00:14:07,105 Should I go and buy a business that sells, um, I don't know, 246 00:14:07,355 --> 00:14:09,825 coolers or Coke or something 247 00:14:09,825 --> 00:14:10,385 like, do you know what I mean? 248 00:14:10,385 --> 00:14:12,285 Something that's similar, but not quite a competitor. 249 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:13,930 Well, I've seen 250 00:14:13,930 --> 00:14:14,290 both. 251 00:14:14,380 --> 00:14:16,530 Um, as a matter of fact, you mentioned plug and play. 252 00:14:16,530 --> 00:14:21,930 We're working on a deal right now at 31 million where the buyer does exactly what 253 00:14:21,930 --> 00:14:25,170 the, I mean, he's buying his competitor and his competitor's a lot larger 254 00:14:25,190 --> 00:14:27,730 too, uh, where it is a plug and play. 255 00:14:27,730 --> 00:14:30,490 I mean, it's it, I mean, it's, he's a perfect buyer. 256 00:14:31,214 --> 00:14:32,755 For a perfect business. 257 00:14:32,755 --> 00:14:35,635 He's able to run it the exact same way as his current business. 258 00:14:36,204 --> 00:14:40,435 So, um, in that respect, it's, it's a perfect fit and we've had other buyers 259 00:14:40,714 --> 00:14:45,155 where they're buying a business that's complimentary, um, back to your point, 260 00:14:45,155 --> 00:14:46,755 you know, water bottle and cooler. 261 00:14:46,944 --> 00:14:51,834 It's like, okay, that kind of, you know, there's, there's synergistic 262 00:14:51,915 --> 00:14:53,515 sales opportunities there. 263 00:14:53,515 --> 00:14:54,675 So we've seen both. 264 00:14:56,115 --> 00:15:01,140 But should I avoid, again I'm just, uh, shooting the breeze here. 265 00:15:01,140 --> 00:15:04,380 Should I avoid, if I sell water bottles, buying a couch 266 00:15:04,740 --> 00:15:05,820 business, Do you know what I mean? 267 00:15:05,820 --> 00:15:09,500 Or dining table business, something that's completely out of my world. 268 00:15:09,930 --> 00:15:10,420 Yeah. 269 00:15:10,420 --> 00:15:12,420 Usually our clients stick to what they know. 270 00:15:12,420 --> 00:15:15,980 Mm-hmm um, I really, we really have a client that, you know, 271 00:15:15,980 --> 00:15:18,780 sells water bottles and then, Hey, I wanna buy a furniture business. 272 00:15:18,780 --> 00:15:21,400 That's, that's kind of, uh, unorthodox. 273 00:15:21,420 --> 00:15:24,900 Usually they stay in their lane and they buy something that they're familiar 274 00:15:24,900 --> 00:15:27,220 with and run it roughly the same way. 275 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:32,135 And there's been great success uh, with our clients, uh, and kind 276 00:15:32,135 --> 00:15:36,175 of stay in their lane, um, and sticking to their business model. 277 00:15:36,175 --> 00:15:37,295 And they've done really well. 278 00:15:38,435 --> 00:15:42,094 One of the things that you said, Steven, which I, uh, which surprised 279 00:15:42,094 --> 00:15:43,895 me slightly, and I, I dunno why it did. 280 00:15:43,895 --> 00:15:45,415 So I just wanna dig into it a little bit more. 281 00:15:45,714 --> 00:15:49,775 You said that you're doing this 31 million acquisition at the moment where 282 00:15:49,775 --> 00:15:53,495 someone is buying their competitor, who is much bigger than they are. 283 00:15:54,234 --> 00:15:54,655 And. 284 00:15:55,449 --> 00:15:58,540 I dunno why I just assumed I needed to buy companies that were 285 00:15:58,540 --> 00:16:00,060 smaller than me not bigger than me. 286 00:16:00,270 --> 00:16:04,699 Uh, and so maybe that I can't tell you why. 287 00:16:04,699 --> 00:16:07,660 I think that that's just, that was just something in my head. 288 00:16:08,069 --> 00:16:11,900 Um, so is this quite common that actually you, when you grow by acquisition 289 00:16:11,900 --> 00:16:15,819 you're, you can, you can buy something that is significantly larger than you? 290 00:16:16,340 --> 00:16:17,699 We've seen a lot of that. 291 00:16:18,100 --> 00:16:22,220 Honestly, most of the time is that where a smaller business is buying a larger one. 292 00:16:22,220 --> 00:16:22,579 It's. 293 00:16:22,890 --> 00:16:27,569 Again, it's, it seems unorthodox, but, you know, I would say more often than 294 00:16:27,569 --> 00:16:29,449 not it's that rather than the reverse. 295 00:16:30,180 --> 00:16:33,170 So, um, but we've seen a lot of that. 296 00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:34,730 Uh, absolutely. 297 00:16:35,230 --> 00:16:36,449 And that's really interesting. 298 00:16:36,449 --> 00:16:39,170 A lot of it, you know, has to do with the available financing. 299 00:16:39,230 --> 00:16:43,650 You know, a lot of our clients are able to acquire that larger business because 300 00:16:43,650 --> 00:16:49,010 we're able to leverage, you know, if they're injecting or putting down 20%, 301 00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:51,870 you know, of 31 million, let's just say. 302 00:16:52,150 --> 00:16:56,870 I mean, they're able to buy 31 billion business for a lot less than, you 303 00:16:56,870 --> 00:17:02,550 know, establishing additional business or, uh, or trying to pay cash. 304 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,869 So we're able to help through leverage financing. 305 00:17:05,869 --> 00:17:09,310 We're able to help smaller businesses acquire larger ones, 306 00:17:09,569 --> 00:17:14,360 but in his case, he had a very, um, he had a very motivated seller. 307 00:17:14,420 --> 00:17:18,240 The seller was I think, elderly and looking to just get out and kind 308 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:19,960 of take his chips off the table. 309 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,760 And it was a great opportunity from him and, um, he's moving 310 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:24,880 forward with the acquisition. 311 00:17:26,130 --> 00:17:30,880 So if I, um, if I look at my space and I kind of think, well, I there's one 312 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,640 or two competitors, I'd be interested in acquiring them on them, maybe. 313 00:17:34,130 --> 00:17:38,360 Um, how do I even think about starting that process? 314 00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:39,080 Do you know what I mean? 315 00:17:39,230 --> 00:17:41,160 I, I, it, it sounds. 316 00:17:41,985 --> 00:17:43,695 It sounds almost otherworldly. 317 00:17:43,905 --> 00:17:45,695 Uh, if I can put it that way, Do you know what I mean? 318 00:17:45,695 --> 00:17:47,855 It's like, I just would not know where to begin. 319 00:17:49,325 --> 00:17:53,975 I mean, depends if that that business is for sale, if it's listed with a 320 00:17:54,175 --> 00:17:58,054 business broker or not, or if you're just starting a private dialogue with 321 00:17:58,054 --> 00:18:01,455 that seller, but it starts with a private, you know, more of a private 322 00:18:01,895 --> 00:18:03,495 dialogue, uh, if it is that way. 323 00:18:04,034 --> 00:18:09,970 And, and then, and then ultimately, um, if that seller's interested in selling, 324 00:18:10,210 --> 00:18:15,090 obtaining the financials of that business and really digging deep and doing due 325 00:18:15,090 --> 00:18:19,570 diligence, um, and ultimately coming to someone like us, where we're able to vet 326 00:18:19,570 --> 00:18:24,610 the business from a lending standpoint, mm-hmm and making sure that we're able 327 00:18:24,610 --> 00:18:26,730 to shore financing for that acquisition. 328 00:18:27,020 --> 00:18:29,770 Uh, we do a lot of that and sometimes it works. 329 00:18:29,770 --> 00:18:30,690 Sometimes it doesn't. 330 00:18:30,690 --> 00:18:30,889 We. 331 00:18:31,370 --> 00:18:34,250 buyers that come to us saying, Hey, I'm really interested in buying this 332 00:18:34,530 --> 00:18:39,610 business, but the business looks great on, you know, from the outside, but 333 00:18:39,610 --> 00:18:42,649 you start digging into the financials and it's an absolute disaster. 334 00:18:42,669 --> 00:18:46,810 And we have to go back to the buyer and say, yeah, uh, this business 335 00:18:46,810 --> 00:18:48,290 will not qualify for financing. 336 00:18:48,780 --> 00:18:50,770 Uh, and then sometimes it's the opposite. 337 00:18:50,770 --> 00:18:56,695 The business is very well run has great, um, financials, meaning, tax returns 338 00:18:56,695 --> 00:18:59,015 and, and strong financial standing. 339 00:18:59,015 --> 00:19:02,935 And we're able to run with it and shore up the financing for our buyer. 340 00:19:04,225 --> 00:19:06,015 So I'm starting a, a dialogue. 341 00:19:06,045 --> 00:19:09,735 I wanna look at their financials, um, start to do some due diligence. 342 00:19:09,735 --> 00:19:13,415 What are some of the, I don't know, some of the key things I need to hit in their 343 00:19:13,415 --> 00:19:18,805 financials that I can look at myself and go, if I see this, this is like a big 344 00:19:18,825 --> 00:19:20,425 warning or this is a big green light. 345 00:19:21,045 --> 00:19:25,825 You know, um, I mean, just from high level, Matt, I would say, you know, what 346 00:19:25,825 --> 00:19:28,185 are revenue numbers doing year over year? 347 00:19:28,355 --> 00:19:29,865 Is it increasing revenues? 348 00:19:29,865 --> 00:19:30,825 Is it stagnant? 349 00:19:30,825 --> 00:19:32,345 Is it declining revenues? 350 00:19:32,435 --> 00:19:35,185 We had a case yesterday where our business that we're trying to finance 351 00:19:35,955 --> 00:19:38,575 is just, I mean, it's not doing well. 352 00:19:38,575 --> 00:19:43,735 And mm-hmm, one thing we do not finance, um, are, uh, businesses that we, we 353 00:19:43,735 --> 00:19:46,055 call, uh, you know, falling knives. 354 00:19:46,055 --> 00:19:47,655 We don't try to catch falling knives. 355 00:19:47,665 --> 00:19:54,215 Um and so, so we do, that's good, you know, top line revenue numbers, we look 356 00:19:54,215 --> 00:20:00,495 at, you know, EBITDA or SDE, uh, and, and make sure that the business qualifies for 357 00:20:00,495 --> 00:20:02,175 financing because the last thing we want. 358 00:20:02,665 --> 00:20:05,955 Having our buyer move forward with a contract, you know, with a 359 00:20:05,955 --> 00:20:07,715 letter of intent to buy a business. 360 00:20:07,715 --> 00:20:10,675 And then we have to deliver the bad news that the business 361 00:20:10,675 --> 00:20:12,274 doesn't qualify for financing. 362 00:20:12,605 --> 00:20:18,034 So we do a lot of heavy lifting up front, um, and that's led to 98% 363 00:20:18,034 --> 00:20:23,074 closing rate meaning of, of the deals that we bring in 98% of 'em close. 364 00:20:23,804 --> 00:20:28,195 Um, the average, at least here in the states is about 62% mm-hmm . And 365 00:20:28,195 --> 00:20:32,195 the reason being is we, we vet the business, uh, very extensively. 366 00:20:32,365 --> 00:20:37,195 We vet the buyer extensively mm-hmm , um, to make sure that it's a good fit and 367 00:20:37,195 --> 00:20:41,715 the buyer has the right acumen to, um, to scale the business and the buyer 368 00:20:41,715 --> 00:20:46,274 doesn't have the right acumen or doesn't have a team member with the right acumen 369 00:20:46,274 --> 00:20:48,635 we, we, we don't get involved with that transac. 370 00:20:49,835 --> 00:20:55,185 So when you say the buyer has to have the right acumen, uh, I, so I guess this is 371 00:20:55,185 --> 00:20:56,665 part of your, your due diligence, right? 372 00:20:56,665 --> 00:20:57,504 This is part of your process. 373 00:20:57,504 --> 00:20:57,905 Yes. 374 00:20:57,905 --> 00:21:00,105 I need to look at the financials of the company you're buying, 375 00:21:00,405 --> 00:21:03,544 but I need to understand about you the purchase of the buyer. 376 00:21:03,575 --> 00:21:06,345 I wanna understand what kind of person you are, what sort of things are you? 377 00:21:06,764 --> 00:21:08,585 Are you looking for there? 378 00:21:09,615 --> 00:21:11,865 Yeah, so, um, kind of taking a step back. 379 00:21:12,274 --> 00:21:16,504 So we vet the business and then we vet the buyer and on the buyer's 380 00:21:16,504 --> 00:21:19,405 side, we make sure that buyer has the right business acumen. 381 00:21:19,405 --> 00:21:23,565 Does the buyer have direct eCommerce experience or does he have a skillset 382 00:21:23,715 --> 00:21:29,805 that's transferable that would work within an e-commerce, um, type business? 383 00:21:30,455 --> 00:21:34,425 Um, you know, if, if the buyer's looking to buy, let's just say a 5 384 00:21:34,425 --> 00:21:39,045 million business and he has no eCommerce experience has been sitting in a cubicle 385 00:21:39,045 --> 00:21:42,085 for the last 20 years at, at, at VP. 386 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,530 That, that person's probably not the right fit mm-hmm . But if it's somebody 387 00:21:46,530 --> 00:21:52,890 who might have worked for an e-commerce business or, um, or has some sort of 388 00:21:53,610 --> 00:21:58,250 transferable skill, that's something definitely, uh, we'd look at, um, 389 00:21:58,250 --> 00:22:03,850 or if the buyer may not have direct skill set, does a team member, cuz 390 00:22:03,850 --> 00:22:06,870 oftentimes these businesses are bought by 391 00:22:07,389 --> 00:22:10,379 a group of people, partners, business partners. 392 00:22:10,379 --> 00:22:11,980 Mm-hmm . So it's not just one individual. 393 00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:16,740 And does do any of the individuals within that, that team have that 394 00:22:16,940 --> 00:22:18,700 skillset to, to run the business. 395 00:22:20,120 --> 00:22:20,540 Wow. 396 00:22:21,030 --> 00:22:25,140 Do you ever find people coming along saying to you Stephen list? 397 00:22:25,140 --> 00:22:28,260 I wanna finance this business and they're buying it with a sole purpose 398 00:22:28,270 --> 00:22:29,899 of selling it again in 18 months. 399 00:22:29,899 --> 00:22:33,300 I don't do we, is there such a thing as flipping eCommerce business? 400 00:22:34,004 --> 00:22:34,355 Um, 401 00:22:34,535 --> 00:22:39,555 not usually, usually it's more roll up strategies, uh, buying a group of 402 00:22:39,555 --> 00:22:43,555 e-commerce businesses and eventually, you know, selling them as a, as a 403 00:22:43,555 --> 00:22:48,315 whole mm-hmm um, because typically as you, uh, work up the food chain, the 404 00:22:48,555 --> 00:22:51,635 multiples tend to be higher mm-hmm so there's a lot of opportunity there. 405 00:22:51,925 --> 00:22:56,395 Um, 18 months, probably not, maybe two years, three years, you know, 406 00:22:56,395 --> 00:22:59,395 they're buying a series of businesses and they're doing rollups and that 407 00:22:59,675 --> 00:23:01,485 strategy tends to work out really well. 408 00:23:01,785 --> 00:23:05,450 Be it SAAS businesses, uh, and, or, um, eCommerce, you know, 409 00:23:05,450 --> 00:23:06,770 more product based businesses. 410 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:08,370 Yeah, no, that's great. 411 00:23:08,370 --> 00:23:08,770 Great. 412 00:23:09,100 --> 00:23:11,690 Uh, I, we're gonna carry on this conversation. 413 00:23:11,690 --> 00:23:14,570 Uh, we are gonna get into what it takes to sell a business, and we are gonna 414 00:23:14,570 --> 00:23:15,890 answer that all important question. 415 00:23:15,890 --> 00:23:20,610 How the heck do I know the value of said business, uh, in our 416 00:23:20,770 --> 00:23:24,770 conversation with Stephen, don't go anywhere, we will be right back after 417 00:23:24,770 --> 00:23:24,970 this. 418 00:23:25,470 --> 00:23:27,010 Hey, there are you a business? 419 00:23:27,689 --> 00:23:31,540 Here at Aurion Digital, we know firsthand that running an e-commerce 420 00:23:31,939 --> 00:23:33,459 business can be really hard work. 421 00:23:34,030 --> 00:23:37,860 As the online space gets more competitive, it is becoming even more 422 00:23:38,100 --> 00:23:39,500 challenging to stay ahead of the curve. 423 00:23:39,669 --> 00:23:40,980 We totally get it. 424 00:23:41,030 --> 00:23:45,139 So we wanna help you succeed by offering a wide range of services from 425 00:23:45,139 --> 00:23:50,340 fulfillment marketing, customer service, and even coaching and consulting, just 426 00:23:50,340 --> 00:23:52,179 so that you can do what matters most. 427 00:23:52,490 --> 00:23:56,699 Save yourself the time and the money and let us handle the day to day task. 428 00:23:57,095 --> 00:24:00,865 This way you can run your business without having to worry about the boring stuff. 429 00:24:01,275 --> 00:24:03,785 So what do you say, are we a good fit for each other? 430 00:24:04,175 --> 00:24:07,665 Come check us out at auriondigital.com and let us know what 431 00:24:07,665 --> 00:24:08,065 you think. 432 00:24:17,195 --> 00:24:25,045 So, Stephen, uh, fascinating conversations so far about buying a company, um, I 433 00:24:25,045 --> 00:24:31,004 guess if I flip it around what you've said so far about doing due diligence 434 00:24:31,004 --> 00:24:35,445 about accounting, if I'm selling, if I'm building a business to sell it, 435 00:24:35,975 --> 00:24:42,445 um, uh, I'm listening to you thinking I therefore need to have good accounting. 436 00:24:42,445 --> 00:24:44,525 I need to have year on year growth. 437 00:24:44,675 --> 00:24:46,125 I need to do you know what I mean? 438 00:24:46,125 --> 00:24:50,485 I I'm kind of reversing there what you said there in terms of, of buying, 439 00:24:50,485 --> 00:24:52,145 is that a fair assumption to make. 440 00:24:53,235 --> 00:24:54,160 Very much so. 441 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,160 Um, a lot of e-commerce businesses when they're established, um, 442 00:24:59,170 --> 00:25:06,120 they're sometimes, uh, on a shoestring and typically the owner 443 00:25:06,290 --> 00:25:10,880 doesn't realize how important it is to keep a clean set of books. 444 00:25:11,875 --> 00:25:15,665 So if there's co-mingling going on, generally, that's going to hurt when 445 00:25:15,665 --> 00:25:19,905 you get, when a seller goes to exit mm-hmm . Um, and another point is, 446 00:25:19,905 --> 00:25:23,505 you know, I, we highly recommend here at eCommerce lending that sellers 447 00:25:23,505 --> 00:25:25,785 really plan well ahead of their exit. 448 00:25:26,155 --> 00:25:29,545 Uh, we have buyers that come to us two years prior to when they're thinking 449 00:25:29,545 --> 00:25:34,225 about selling their business and we are able to give them recommendations. 450 00:25:34,225 --> 00:25:37,665 Sometimes we're able to set them up with an accountant to clean up their financial. 451 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,389 Um, and sometimes it may be a business that's in the UK and we highly 452 00:25:42,389 --> 00:25:46,710 encourage them to get domiciled in the United States because generally 453 00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:48,510 that does push the price point higher. 454 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,909 So, um, we do a lot of consulting here at eCommerce lending. 455 00:25:51,909 --> 00:25:53,510 We're not just, you know, a lender. 456 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:59,389 Um, and part of that with, with our seller clients is being able to get 457 00:25:59,389 --> 00:26:02,389 things in place for their eventual exit. 458 00:26:03,679 --> 00:26:06,415 What, sorry, let me just, lemme just back up just a little 459 00:26:06,415 --> 00:26:07,415 minute, put it in reverse. 460 00:26:07,985 --> 00:26:09,774 Uh, so I'm in the UK. 461 00:26:09,774 --> 00:26:12,335 Uh, I have a UK eCommerce website. 462 00:26:12,665 --> 00:26:15,895 Um, and I'm saying to you, Stephen, I'm looking to sell this, uh, 463 00:26:15,895 --> 00:26:17,655 in about two, three years time. 464 00:26:17,655 --> 00:26:22,815 I currentlyphship from Liverpool, uh, which is where I'm based all over 465 00:26:22,815 --> 00:26:25,055 the world, um, including the states. 466 00:26:25,745 --> 00:26:28,175 So one of the things that you would say to me would be. 467 00:26:29,090 --> 00:26:32,960 uh, have a think about domiciled your business or moving your business 468 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:38,760 to the states or having a us, uh, operation, uh, to the UK operational. 469 00:26:38,770 --> 00:26:40,360 Or am I moving the whole thing? 470 00:26:40,360 --> 00:26:42,880 I'm just, sorry, I'm just curious about what you said. 471 00:26:43,390 --> 00:26:43,880 Yeah. 472 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:49,840 So, um, to, to answer question in kind of in a roundabout way, so generally US based 473 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,280 businesses, um, obtain a higher price. 474 00:26:53,125 --> 00:26:58,325 Primarily because our more financing opportunities than a UK based business. 475 00:26:58,435 --> 00:26:58,925 Okay. 476 00:26:58,925 --> 00:27:04,645 So we haven't consulted, um, our friends across the pond to consider if it makes 477 00:27:04,645 --> 00:27:09,645 sense, um, to domicile their business here in the states, because generally, 478 00:27:09,895 --> 00:27:14,565 um, their business, it just opening up the buyer pool that much more mm-hmm 479 00:27:14,645 --> 00:27:18,925 because most of the buyers, um, just by sheer numbers are here in the states 480 00:27:19,710 --> 00:27:25,050 and a business that's do south here in the states will qualify for various 481 00:27:25,180 --> 00:27:27,889 us based, uh, financing programs. 482 00:27:27,889 --> 00:27:32,010 Mm-hmm Whereas the UK, unfortunately doesn't quite yet have any sort of 483 00:27:32,610 --> 00:27:36,409 business acquisition financing programs, uh, similar to what we have here. 484 00:27:37,020 --> 00:27:43,860 Um, there's a high emphasis on the small business here in the United States and 485 00:27:44,330 --> 00:27:50,524 uh, thankfully the government, um, is able to, uh, guarantee loans here. 486 00:27:51,215 --> 00:27:56,125 Um, so allowing lenders to, to lend on businesses that don't necessarily have any 487 00:27:56,125 --> 00:28:00,445 assets mm-hmm , um, you know, mostly it's it's called considered cashflow lending. 488 00:28:01,014 --> 00:28:06,365 So with that, uh, we have consulted sellers to consider finance or 489 00:28:06,645 --> 00:28:10,284 consider domiciling here in the states, uh, for that very reason. 490 00:28:12,030 --> 00:28:12,520 That 491 00:28:13,250 --> 00:28:17,760 is fascinating, uh, and leads leads me to a whole bunch more questions. 492 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:19,560 Uh, if I'm honest with you, you can come. 493 00:28:20,110 --> 00:28:20,600 Yeah. 494 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:21,240 Yeah, absolutely. 495 00:28:21,250 --> 00:28:26,320 So, um, so we're, we're thinking of selling our business and now you've owned 496 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,159 up this whole kind of worms that if you're outside of the US, you might want to think 497 00:28:29,159 --> 00:28:31,360 about moving your business to the US. 498 00:28:31,570 --> 00:28:35,480 Um, I, I'm not gonna ask you what's involved in that, cuz I'm sure that's a 499 00:28:35,639 --> 00:28:37,280 question for the us accountants to answer. 500 00:28:37,889 --> 00:28:39,720 Um, but in terms of. 501 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,989 Um, the, the, the other thing that you mentioned, you're, you're 502 00:28:44,989 --> 00:28:47,989 saying people are starting to think two to three years ahead now. 503 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,250 So they're like, it's not like I wanna sell my business now. 504 00:28:51,350 --> 00:28:53,389 I wanna sell it in two to three years. 505 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,790 Is this quite common thinking it's like, are we planning that far ahead now? 506 00:28:58,705 --> 00:28:59,495 No, I think it's 507 00:28:59,495 --> 00:29:00,175 two or three minutes. 508 00:29:00,235 --> 00:29:01,295 Not two or three minutes. 509 00:29:02,805 --> 00:29:04,455 yeah, I'm in that camp right there. 510 00:29:06,185 --> 00:29:07,695 oh gosh, I wanna exit. 511 00:29:07,695 --> 00:29:08,135 Okay. 512 00:29:08,745 --> 00:29:12,775 Uh, and unfortunately, a lot of businesses, you know, ultimately lenders 513 00:29:12,775 --> 00:29:17,495 look at the financials and a lot of businesses, um, don't keep clean books 514 00:29:17,665 --> 00:29:22,719 or, um, at least here in the States, there are a lot of, um, There's a lot 515 00:29:22,719 --> 00:29:27,560 of aggressive accounting work to lower the tax burden for that seller mm-hmm 516 00:29:27,639 --> 00:29:32,639 Um, unfortunately that generally hurts the seller upon exit because that business 517 00:29:32,639 --> 00:29:34,600 will qualify for less amount of financing. 518 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,560 Mm-hmm if, if, and sometimes it, it disqualifies a business 519 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:39,959 from qualifying for financing. 520 00:29:40,290 --> 00:29:44,879 So we try to encourage our, our seller clients to be less aggressive 521 00:29:45,409 --> 00:29:47,719 in avoiding, uh, the taxman 522 00:29:48,590 --> 00:29:51,610 and, and being able to show as much profit, you know, bottom 523 00:29:51,610 --> 00:29:55,690 line profit as possible because that's gonna pay dividends when, 524 00:29:55,690 --> 00:29:57,330 when he, or she goes to exit. 525 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,010 That's really, yeah. 526 00:30:00,010 --> 00:30:03,290 Proper planning and preparation and all that prevents and 527 00:30:03,290 --> 00:30:05,410 also co-mingling that that's a huge problem. 528 00:30:05,410 --> 00:30:06,690 And I'll bring it up to your audience. 529 00:30:07,020 --> 00:30:10,650 If you have multiple e-commerce businesses, keep them separate. 530 00:30:10,650 --> 00:30:12,610 Don't co-mingle financials. 531 00:30:12,610 --> 00:30:15,570 Mm-hmm because when you go to sell that one piece of the 532 00:30:15,570 --> 00:30:17,010 three businesses that you have. 533 00:30:17,429 --> 00:30:19,740 Um, it, it won't qualify for financing. 534 00:30:19,750 --> 00:30:24,500 So make sure you have separate set of books for each, each of your businesses. 535 00:30:26,165 --> 00:30:30,145 And do I, if I'm gonna sell, uh, an online business, there's a big 536 00:30:30,145 --> 00:30:33,785 move at the moment, Stephen, uh, certainly I've noticed for people 537 00:30:33,785 --> 00:30:36,985 to sell, not just physical products, but digital now digital's, you 538 00:30:36,985 --> 00:30:38,185 know, actual digital products. 539 00:30:38,185 --> 00:30:42,065 You've got the whole, you know, buy in this photograph and the rights 540 00:30:42,065 --> 00:30:43,305 to that whole photograph type thing. 541 00:30:43,315 --> 00:30:46,825 So there's, there's a whole massive sway now isn't there into digital products. 542 00:30:47,515 --> 00:30:52,395 So in terms of, uh, selling my business, is it still more beneficial 543 00:30:52,395 --> 00:30:55,595 for me to build a product based business or does it not really matter? 544 00:30:55,595 --> 00:30:57,315 Can you still get lending for both? 545 00:30:57,865 --> 00:30:59,195 It's it's equal? 546 00:30:59,325 --> 00:31:02,475 Um, I will say digital businesses have become a greater 547 00:31:02,475 --> 00:31:04,155 share of our business here. 548 00:31:04,155 --> 00:31:06,955 Mm-hmm uh, the amount of business that we bring in, whereas eight 549 00:31:06,955 --> 00:31:08,435 years ago was like a, a what? 550 00:31:08,465 --> 00:31:08,915 A digital. 551 00:31:09,095 --> 00:31:14,570 And now, um, now it's, it's a, I won't say, I mean, it's probably 552 00:31:14,570 --> 00:31:16,250 20 to 30% of our business. 553 00:31:16,250 --> 00:31:19,330 Here are digital businesses or SAAS businesses, you know, 554 00:31:19,330 --> 00:31:20,409 service based businesses. 555 00:31:20,780 --> 00:31:26,090 We have one where, uh, the, the seller owns like trillion, 556 00:31:26,460 --> 00:31:29,010 um, website, uh, domains. 557 00:31:29,429 --> 00:31:33,409 And he's selling the business because it drives traffic and it generates revenue. 558 00:31:33,580 --> 00:31:39,745 So, uh, across the board we, we do both eCommerce, which is technically 559 00:31:39,745 --> 00:31:43,425 eCommerce our product based businesses, as well as, you know, digital 560 00:31:43,825 --> 00:31:45,504 businesses, SAAS businesses, cetera. 561 00:31:46,004 --> 00:31:46,425 Wow. 562 00:31:47,205 --> 00:31:47,625 Wow. 563 00:31:47,835 --> 00:31:51,399 So the, um, this is all very fascinating, isn't it? 564 00:31:51,399 --> 00:31:55,879 So I came across when I was looking, uh, I say looking, it usually 565 00:31:55,879 --> 00:32:01,560 means stalking, uh, Stephen , uh, your good self on LinkedIn. 566 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:06,399 I came across, um, a story on there about Phoenix store, Mark 567 00:32:06,499 --> 00:32:07,760 Daly acquired that business. 568 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,639 And I said to you, I don't, again, I've not asked you if you can 569 00:32:11,639 --> 00:32:12,840 talk about this is on LinkedIn. 570 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:18,189 So I'm asking, uh, feel free not to share certain things, but um obviously 571 00:32:18,355 --> 00:32:23,125 Mark put on, on, on LinkedIn that this was his first eCommerce acquisition. 572 00:32:23,375 --> 00:32:27,805 Uh, and he was very glowing and grateful to you in, in what he said on LinkedIn. 573 00:32:27,805 --> 00:32:31,685 I thought this obviously has gone well, and here's a guy, I 574 00:32:31,685 --> 00:32:34,205 dunno the backstory, but it seems like there's a guy who's gone, 575 00:32:34,595 --> 00:32:39,845 I'll buy Phoenix store, which I, I looked at the website and it sell like 576 00:32:39,845 --> 00:32:41,915 torches, uh, and things like that. 577 00:32:41,915 --> 00:32:45,005 I, I was just really curious, how did that start? 578 00:32:45,005 --> 00:32:46,645 And, and, and what was the story there? 579 00:32:47,975 --> 00:32:51,075 I mean, Mark was one of our fantastic, uh, clients. 580 00:32:51,245 --> 00:32:54,195 Um, he had strong business acumen, although not direct 581 00:32:54,655 --> 00:32:59,395 and he just had a real, um, he, he had strong business acumen. 582 00:32:59,395 --> 00:33:02,915 I mean, it boils down to that and I, we saw no reason why 583 00:33:02,915 --> 00:33:04,115 he couldn't run that business. 584 00:33:04,885 --> 00:33:05,955 Um, yeah. 585 00:33:05,955 --> 00:33:10,155 So, so we financed, uh, I think he closed a couple months ago, 586 00:33:10,575 --> 00:33:15,905 but some of our clients don't have direct e-commerce experience and, 587 00:33:15,905 --> 00:33:17,185 but they have the right acumen. 588 00:33:17,185 --> 00:33:20,225 They have the wrong, the right indirect experience. 589 00:33:20,225 --> 00:33:21,705 And he certainly had that. 590 00:33:21,995 --> 00:33:22,345 Mm. 591 00:33:22,835 --> 00:33:25,705 So, um, and that was a good size acquisition. 592 00:33:25,845 --> 00:33:30,385 And so far, he's doing very well, uh, as he continues to scale that business. 593 00:33:31,075 --> 00:33:31,425 So 594 00:33:31,505 --> 00:33:32,385 do you stay connected? 595 00:33:32,385 --> 00:33:35,345 Do you follow up with clients as they go through the whole process? 596 00:33:35,935 --> 00:33:36,485 We do. 597 00:33:36,485 --> 00:33:39,565 And it's, you know, one thing that always comes up is how 598 00:33:39,565 --> 00:33:40,925 well do these businesses do 599 00:33:41,215 --> 00:33:42,685 uh, post-acquisition? 600 00:33:42,685 --> 00:33:45,925 Mm-hmm I think only in, just in a few cases has a, has a 601 00:33:46,165 --> 00:33:47,605 business turned, turned bad. 602 00:33:48,135 --> 00:33:50,004 Um, and usually it's operator error. 603 00:33:50,014 --> 00:33:52,445 Uh, we had one case about three years ago. 604 00:33:53,014 --> 00:33:58,365 Um, we, one of our clients bought a business and, uh, it was fairly 605 00:33:58,365 --> 00:34:02,645 specialized and she fired everybody and thought she could do everything 606 00:34:02,645 --> 00:34:04,815 herself and the business totally tanked. 607 00:34:04,885 --> 00:34:05,375 Yeah. 608 00:34:05,375 --> 00:34:10,175 And, um, for your listeners out there, if you buy a business, don't change anything 609 00:34:10,715 --> 00:34:12,695 for at least like three to six months. 610 00:34:12,695 --> 00:34:13,534 Like anything. 611 00:34:13,885 --> 00:34:19,295 Just stay steady, get your sea legs and then start making changes over time. 612 00:34:19,295 --> 00:34:20,975 And she, unfortunately didn't do that. 613 00:34:21,275 --> 00:34:25,255 She fired everybody and thought she could be a, you know, do everything yourself 614 00:34:25,255 --> 00:34:26,735 and the business absolutely tanked. 615 00:34:27,025 --> 00:34:27,375 So, 616 00:34:27,375 --> 00:34:27,775 wow. 617 00:34:30,100 --> 00:34:33,949 This obviously brings us to one important question, uh, which will 618 00:34:33,949 --> 00:34:37,230 be I'm sure the question that you get asked the most often, if you're 619 00:34:37,230 --> 00:34:40,029 down in the pub and you tell people what you do for a living, right? 620 00:34:40,569 --> 00:34:42,350 How do I not ever 621 00:34:46,259 --> 00:34:46,830 I like that. 622 00:34:47,199 --> 00:34:49,739 Um, if you, how do you. 623 00:34:50,049 --> 00:34:51,790 How do I value a business? 624 00:34:51,790 --> 00:34:53,710 How do I value a business that I'm buying? 625 00:34:53,710 --> 00:34:55,549 How do I value a business that I'm selling? 626 00:34:55,699 --> 00:34:59,350 I appreciate, I've just gotta ask probably the most common, but the most 627 00:34:59,350 --> 00:35:02,629 stupid question, because it's like how long's a piece of string, right. 628 00:35:02,930 --> 00:35:06,390 But are there some, some things that I need to think about in that process? 629 00:35:07,259 --> 00:35:12,600 You know, unlike more kind of brick and mortar, traditional businesses, uh, the 630 00:35:12,839 --> 00:35:17,120 multiples, uh, ultimately in terms of valuation, it's all about multiples. 631 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,040 The, the, the challenge in eCommerce and or SAAS is that the 632 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:22,480 multiples are all over the place. 633 00:35:22,589 --> 00:35:23,080 Yeah. 634 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,480 So that's been kind of a challenge for, for a lot of people. 635 00:35:26,859 --> 00:35:32,680 And also back to the supply and demand the multiples have gone stratospheric, 636 00:35:32,770 --> 00:35:36,040 um, because, um, because of the demand. 637 00:35:36,850 --> 00:35:41,560 So, um, but ultimately, you know, depending on, you know, a few factors 638 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,000 that that really affect the multiple, uh, you know, the type of business, 639 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,320 it is the price of the business. 640 00:35:48,170 --> 00:35:51,440 Um, so those, those two primary things, because you can have a 641 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:56,920 SAAS business at, uh, 5, 6, 7 times multiple and in a product 642 00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:58,440 based business at three and a half. 643 00:35:58,490 --> 00:36:03,120 So, so it really depends, um, generally the higher, the price point, the 644 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,800 higher, the multiple mm-hmm . Um, but. 645 00:36:06,255 --> 00:36:11,765 Um, so, you know, once you move forward with your offer, um, you know, ultimately 646 00:36:11,765 --> 00:36:14,565 at the end of the day, you have to feel comfortable with what you're offering, 647 00:36:15,055 --> 00:36:17,005 uh, for that business, meaning, okay. 648 00:36:17,005 --> 00:36:20,525 I'm, I'm putting an offer at 3 million because I believe that business is 649 00:36:20,525 --> 00:36:23,405 worth 3 million mm-hmm and it's really, regardless of what the 650 00:36:23,405 --> 00:36:26,685 seller thinks it's worth, because ultimately you're the one buying it. 651 00:36:27,145 --> 00:36:31,845 And then, so, but during the process, as you do your due diligence, we actually do 652 00:36:31,875 --> 00:36:34,165 a third party valuation of that business. 653 00:36:34,870 --> 00:36:38,020 So we might come back to you and say, you know what, Matt, you know, 654 00:36:38,330 --> 00:36:41,580 I know you're buying this business for 3 million, but here's a 50 655 00:36:41,580 --> 00:36:44,340 page, uh, business valuation report. 656 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,420 And it's, it's actually worth two and a half million mm-hmm 657 00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:50,220 And that gives you the opportunity of going back to the seller 658 00:36:50,220 --> 00:36:51,540 and renegotiating the price. 659 00:36:52,475 --> 00:36:58,525 . Yeah, because it's, it, it does feel like with, uh, business valuations, sometimes 660 00:36:58,525 --> 00:37:01,245 it's a bit like I'm gonna link my finger and stick it in the air and see which way 661 00:37:01,245 --> 00:37:06,045 the wind's blowing and I'm, and I I've heard people wanting crazy multiples for 662 00:37:06,045 --> 00:37:08,085 their business, you know, like 16, 17. 663 00:37:08,085 --> 00:37:13,085 And you're like, dude, what, what planet uh, is someone gonna may best to look 664 00:37:13,085 --> 00:37:16,964 finding someone to buy that, but that's just not me, uh, out of the gate, right? 665 00:37:17,615 --> 00:37:17,964 Oh 666 00:37:17,964 --> 00:37:18,125 yeah. 667 00:37:18,125 --> 00:37:22,285 I mean, it might be somewhat similar to the housing market, at least, you 668 00:37:22,285 --> 00:37:27,085 know, I know the UK housing market's gone crazy same with here in the states. 669 00:37:27,145 --> 00:37:31,365 And ultimately there is someone stupid enough to overpay for, 670 00:37:31,365 --> 00:37:33,645 for, for a business or a house. 671 00:37:34,384 --> 00:37:37,525 And, you know, hopefully our clients aren't that person, but 672 00:37:37,525 --> 00:37:38,765 we're able to have a safeguard. 673 00:37:39,375 --> 00:37:42,435 All of our deals require a third party evaluation. 674 00:37:43,005 --> 00:37:47,755 Um, and so we're able to, to help our client make sure that he or she 675 00:37:47,755 --> 00:37:49,955 doesn't overpay for the business mm-hmm 676 00:37:50,165 --> 00:37:52,635 Um, so that that's part of it. 677 00:37:52,805 --> 00:37:58,595 Um, and then also, um, we set up our, our buyers for success in 678 00:37:58,595 --> 00:38:02,435 the sense that we help create, um, an acquisition team around them. 679 00:38:03,125 --> 00:38:06,875 Um, oftentimes our buyers come to us and they think that buying a 680 00:38:07,035 --> 00:38:08,235 business is like buying a house. 681 00:38:08,805 --> 00:38:11,335 Excuse me and it's not it's, it's not at all. 682 00:38:11,705 --> 00:38:15,174 So we're, we're able to set them up with the, uh, due diligence 683 00:38:15,174 --> 00:38:20,774 team, to mm-hmm vet the, the, the, uh, the business itself. 684 00:38:21,174 --> 00:38:24,975 We're able to recommend a eCommerce attorney because 685 00:38:24,975 --> 00:38:26,575 again, a space is very different. 686 00:38:26,575 --> 00:38:30,495 You can't just hire an attorney that doesn't understand e-commerce. 687 00:38:30,865 --> 00:38:34,975 So we help build this team around the person and, and really, uh, there are 688 00:38:34,975 --> 00:38:39,529 a lot of safeguards in place to make sure that, uh, our clients aren't 689 00:38:39,529 --> 00:38:43,609 overpaying that we're able to show up financing, uh, and that ultimately 690 00:38:43,609 --> 00:38:45,129 we're setting up our client for 691 00:38:46,030 --> 00:38:47,770 post-acquisition success and not 692 00:38:47,770 --> 00:38:48,010 failure. 693 00:38:48,660 --> 00:38:49,010 No. 694 00:38:49,010 --> 00:38:52,010 Which makes a lot of sense because you're, I mean, you said earlier, you 695 00:38:52,010 --> 00:38:55,050 know, part of the process is you get the financials, you do your due diligence. 696 00:38:55,050 --> 00:38:57,770 Well, the next question causes, well, how that, what, how do I do that? 697 00:38:57,770 --> 00:38:58,370 Due diligence? 698 00:38:58,370 --> 00:38:59,010 Do you know what I mean? 699 00:38:59,010 --> 00:39:02,250 And or how do I find somebody that knows how to do that due diligence? 700 00:39:02,250 --> 00:39:04,370 Because most accountants won't know how to do that. 701 00:39:04,370 --> 00:39:04,650 Right. 702 00:39:04,650 --> 00:39:05,370 Especially 703 00:39:05,570 --> 00:39:06,850 when it comes to yeah. 704 00:39:06,850 --> 00:39:09,890 And our clients know, you know, right outta the gate with us during our 705 00:39:09,890 --> 00:39:14,055 consultation call, we, we throw that out there saying, listen, there are 706 00:39:14,055 --> 00:39:17,495 a lot of steps here and you gotta create this team around you for, for 707 00:39:17,495 --> 00:39:20,255 acquisition success, let us help you. 708 00:39:20,395 --> 00:39:22,615 And, um, and our clients really appreciate that. 709 00:39:23,785 --> 00:39:28,135 So when you say let's take a four times multiple, uh, to value 710 00:39:28,135 --> 00:39:29,855 the business, multiple of what. 711 00:39:32,055 --> 00:39:37,255 multiple of EBITDA or SDE mm-hmm because you can't simply look at the financials 712 00:39:37,255 --> 00:39:40,975 and take the, the net income of a business and determine a multiple off 713 00:39:40,975 --> 00:39:45,455 of that because there are various, uh, things, uh, that are called ad backs. 714 00:39:45,905 --> 00:39:49,415 Uh, be it, current owner salary, uh, is an add back and 715 00:39:49,415 --> 00:39:51,095 other things can be add backs. 716 00:39:51,095 --> 00:39:56,175 Mm-hmm um, and really in our space, it's more of the SDE what stands for 717 00:39:56,175 --> 00:40:00,350 seller discretionary earning um, and we're able to take that, that 718 00:40:00,450 --> 00:40:05,590 net income and add back those things and then come to an SDE number. 719 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:07,840 So it's a multiple of the SDE. 720 00:40:08,340 --> 00:40:08,830 Okay. 721 00:40:08,830 --> 00:40:11,350 Whereas that's interesting brick and mortar businesses matter more 722 00:40:11,350 --> 00:40:15,270 about EBITDA earnings before you come, you know what EBITDA is? 723 00:40:15,270 --> 00:40:15,830 So, yeah. 724 00:40:15,830 --> 00:40:15,950 Yeah. 725 00:40:15,950 --> 00:40:20,920 Uh, so that's the mult, that's what, where the multiples drive from. 726 00:40:22,140 --> 00:40:25,209 That's interesting because, so it's not about re I mean, revenue obviously 727 00:40:25,209 --> 00:40:28,049 helps and it's not the, the net profit, it's not the gross profit. 728 00:40:28,049 --> 00:40:30,450 It's kind of somewhere between those two numbers, isn't it? 729 00:40:30,450 --> 00:40:31,049 EBITDA. 730 00:40:31,049 --> 00:40:33,850 And it, it, it kind of certainly in the UK anyway. 731 00:40:33,850 --> 00:40:39,255 And so what, one of the things that, um, that is becoming more and more obvious. 732 00:40:39,365 --> 00:40:42,815 Stephen, as we're carrying on this conversation, is it is, it is a, 733 00:40:42,965 --> 00:40:45,255 it's a nice idea to buy a business. 734 00:40:45,255 --> 00:40:48,535 It is a nice idea to sell my business or exit from my business, 735 00:40:49,035 --> 00:40:53,615 but it sounds like it's not as straightforward, um, a process. 736 00:40:54,045 --> 00:40:57,500 I mean, I've you mentioned it's not like buying a house, I've bought a 737 00:40:57,500 --> 00:40:58,740 house that was not straightforward. 738 00:40:58,740 --> 00:40:59,819 That was stressful. 739 00:40:59,870 --> 00:41:05,580 So if this is, if this is not like that, uh, it's gonna add a whole new level 740 00:41:05,629 --> 00:41:07,980 of complexity, uh, into the process. 741 00:41:07,980 --> 00:41:11,819 So if you're buying something or selling something of value, it makes 742 00:41:11,819 --> 00:41:13,859 sense to get someone like yourself 743 00:41:14,935 --> 00:41:15,055 involved. 744 00:41:15,055 --> 00:41:17,895 And I, I appreciate this is not a sales pitch for you necessarily, but it's 745 00:41:17,895 --> 00:41:23,294 just kind of like, I, I get the purpose of, of why you exist and the value that 746 00:41:23,294 --> 00:41:29,214 you can bring and the nightmares that you could probably save me from uh, 747 00:41:29,214 --> 00:41:32,294 if I try and venture down the space myself, would that be a fair comment? 748 00:41:33,214 --> 00:41:34,145 It's very fair. 749 00:41:34,145 --> 00:41:37,745 And we do have some clients that are, uh, unfortunately, you know, 750 00:41:37,745 --> 00:41:39,024 penny wise and pound foolish. 751 00:41:39,354 --> 00:41:46,069 Um, and they don't engage us and they go down, uh, the wrong trail and end up never 752 00:41:46,069 --> 00:41:48,390 closing, never having acquisition success. 753 00:41:48,839 --> 00:41:54,049 So we really stress building that team around that person to make sure 754 00:41:54,049 --> 00:41:55,490 they do have acquisition success. 755 00:41:55,569 --> 00:41:56,970 There are a lot of moving pieces. 756 00:41:57,299 --> 00:42:02,009 Um, if you think buying a house has a lot of moving pieces, buying a business 757 00:42:02,009 --> 00:42:06,170 has far more moving pieces and, uh, we help them navigate through that. 758 00:42:06,390 --> 00:42:10,495 And you know, our clients, uh, Uh, you know, we've gotten 759 00:42:10,495 --> 00:42:11,535 good feedback about that. 760 00:42:11,535 --> 00:42:14,215 And we're actually the only firm that really does that. 761 00:42:14,745 --> 00:42:17,735 Um, we don't know if any other firm, at least here in the United States 762 00:42:17,735 --> 00:42:23,575 that really, um, provides that level of service in terms of, um, you know, 763 00:42:23,575 --> 00:42:25,335 we're, again, we're not just a lender. 764 00:42:25,335 --> 00:42:30,975 We're we really offer a lot of ancillary services, um, to help our 765 00:42:30,975 --> 00:42:32,705 clients succeed post acquisition. 766 00:42:33,105 --> 00:42:33,904 Fantastic. 767 00:42:34,325 --> 00:42:37,505 And if, uh, Stephen, if people wanna reach you, if they wanna get hold of 768 00:42:37,505 --> 00:42:41,545 you, if they wanna find out more, uh, whether in the States, the UK, wherever 769 00:42:41,545 --> 00:42:44,904 they are around the world, what's the best way for them to do that. 770 00:42:46,134 --> 00:42:47,145 Send me an email. 771 00:42:47,275 --> 00:42:53,685 Stephen@eCommercelending.com and that's Stephen with a ph at ecommercelending.com. 772 00:42:53,705 --> 00:42:54,545 That's the best way. 773 00:42:54,545 --> 00:42:59,630 You could also go our to our website, eCommerceending.com uh, we have a lot 774 00:42:59,630 --> 00:43:04,030 of information on the website and, uh, we could arrange a, a consult 775 00:43:04,410 --> 00:43:07,990 and, um, and we could even do it via zoom if you're across the pond. 776 00:43:07,990 --> 00:43:09,150 That's no problem at all 777 00:43:09,580 --> 00:43:10,670 across the pond. 778 00:43:10,780 --> 00:43:11,830 I like that phrase. 779 00:43:12,060 --> 00:43:12,910 I like that phrase. 780 00:43:13,180 --> 00:43:13,790 It's a little. 781 00:43:17,339 --> 00:43:22,779 Very smart. 782 00:43:22,779 --> 00:44:03,600 But Stephen, thank you so much for being with us, uh, here on the eCommerce 783 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:05,920 podcast, uh, it's been an absolute treat. 784 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:10,280 Thank you, uh, so much and uh, all the best with your acquisitions. 785 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:10,680 Good 786 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:10,920 sir. 787 00:44:11,715 --> 00:44:14,115 Thank you, Matt for having me on appreciate 788 00:44:14,115 --> 00:44:14,275 it. 789 00:44:15,290 --> 00:44:16,400 So there you have it. 790 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,840 What's a brilliant conversation. 791 00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:20,000 That was huge. 792 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,680 Thanks again to Stephen for joining me today. 793 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:36,830 Loved, loved, loved that. 794 00:44:36,830 --> 00:44:45,265 If you are in the eCommerce world, be sure to subscribe wherever 795 00:44:45,265 --> 00:44:46,945 you get your podcast from. 796 00:44:47,235 --> 00:44:50,905 Uh, because, well, we've got some great conversations lined up and I really 797 00:44:50,905 --> 00:44:52,985 don't want you to miss any of them. 798 00:44:53,165 --> 00:44:58,945 And in case no one has told you today, you, my friend are awesome. 799 00:44:59,005 --> 00:44:59,785 Yes, you are. 800 00:44:59,785 --> 00:45:00,585 Say it with me. 801 00:45:01,185 --> 00:45:02,635 I am awesome. 802 00:45:02,965 --> 00:45:06,355 Uh, the eCommerce podcast is produced by Aurion Media. 803 00:45:06,695 --> 00:45:10,875 You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite, uh, 804 00:45:10,875 --> 00:45:13,195 podcast app, uh, tongue twister. 805 00:45:13,195 --> 00:45:14,475 That is, uh, this team. 806 00:45:14,575 --> 00:45:18,795 The team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon, Josh Catchpole, 807 00:45:18,995 --> 00:45:20,755 Estella, Robin, and Tim Johnson. 808 00:45:21,175 --> 00:45:23,075 Our theme song has been written by my 809 00:45:23,165 --> 00:45:26,560 good self and my fantastic son, Josh Edmundson. 810 00:45:26,580 --> 00:45:31,240 And if you would like to read the transcript or show notes, uh, you 811 00:45:31,240 --> 00:45:36,279 can get them for free at our website, eCommercepodcast.net, where you can 812 00:45:36,279 --> 00:45:38,800 also sign up for our newsletter. 813 00:45:39,410 --> 00:45:40,920 So that's it from me. 814 00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,160 Thank you so much for joining me. 815 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:44,560 Have a fantastic week. 816 00:45:44,779 --> 00:45:45,759 See you next time. 817 00:45:46,420 --> 00:46:01,880 Bye for now.