Hello there and welcome back to Supervision Simplified. I'm Dr. Amy Parks, your host, and I am really excited to share with you my very favorite friend, Jamie Roberts. Thank you so much for being with me today, Jamie. Jamie Roberts (00:14.448) Hi Amy, I am so excited to be here. I always love having great conversations with you. So I'm excited to see what unfolds today. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (00:21.414) Absolutely, and I'm hoping that we can talk about all things neurodivergent today and recent events that we've had together, which is super fun to talk about and stuff we've done hanging out in the past. And I'd love for you to introduce yourself to our audience and tell us a little bit about what you're doing now and what you're up to. And then we're going to get into it. Jamie Roberts (00:45.522) Absolutely. Are you ready for the list? Because my ADHD has me a lot of things. Yes. So my name is Jamie Roberts. I am a licensed marriage and family therapist in Southern California. have been, this year will be 10 years licensed, and I've been supervising for six of those years. I started my group private practice equilibrium counseling services in 2019, and our specialty is neuroqueer teens and young adults. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (00:47.638) Yeah, sure, sure, sure, sure. Besides the fact that you just moved. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jamie Roberts (01:12.538) And then I have a second company called NeuroPebble, where we provide clinical training on neuroaffirming practices with instructors with lived experience. And I'm really excited about what NeuroPebble is doing. So kind of like penguin pebbling, when you find a shiny rock and you're like, I like you, here's a shiny rock. But at NeuroPebble, we share our shiny ideas. So that's where a lot of my time is. I'm the author of two books. My first book is Mindfulness for Teen Anxiety. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (01:33.142) I love that. Jamie Roberts (01:39.986) And my second book comes out in April of 26 on neurodiversity for teen girls. So everything neurodiversity teen experience is where my passion really lies and what I really love talking about and how we can integrate more affirming practices in the clinical spaces. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (02:01.102) So when we think about neurodiversity, you know, it's interesting because I, my career is all around assessment and children, teens and families. And so I kind of come from a background of like, everybody thinks differently. And so when you think about neurodiversity, like where, where do you sort of baseline your definition? Jamie Roberts (02:16.69) Mm-hmm. Jamie Roberts (02:24.636) So this is a really actively growing conversation around language and the neurodiversity like social movement is moving very quickly. And I forgot to say like I'm autistic, ADHD and dyslexic and those are all adult diagnoses that have been kind of integrated into my identity in the last like handful of years. But what really neurodiversity is is yes, it's acknowledging the natural diversity of the human experience. And it really is a diverging from neuro normativity. So there really isn't the, when we think about neurodiversity and really categorizing it, it only exists because socially we have a neuro normative idea of what it is. So it's not just these people are atypical or they diverge, but they only diverge because we have a socially constructed idea of what neuro normative is. And so really the umbrella of neurodiversity is quite large. much larger than I think a lot of our conversations tend to acknowledge. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (03:25.868) I think that that's the piece I wanted to get to. That's what I wanted you to say. So thank you for saying it without me having to prompt you because I think that what people think is there's this sort of pocket of people that live in this little on this little island and they're the diverse neuro diverse people. And then there's the rest of everyone else. And I, and what's actually true is, we really should have identified everyone as being neurodiverse in the typical brain. doesn't really, there isn't a typical brain. And yeah, it's unfortunate, frankly, that we have to have this category of neurodiverse. And I really wish we had started with just how to look at everybody from a more spectrum perspective, frankly. Yeah. Jamie Roberts (03:57.778) or really isn't. Jamie Roberts (04:04.91) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely agree. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (04:15.638) And so as you build out these books that you've built, the neurodiversity, the anxiety book, the mindfulness book and things like that, how, this is sort of a little bit of a tangent, but I'm just curious, how do you work to explain that concept to a young person? Like a person who already, this is such a tangent, but I'm really curious, like already feels like othered. You know, like, everyone's watching me. I am so different. I am so, like, everyone's noticing every pimple on my face. Like, I'm already different. Jamie Roberts (04:44.934) Yeah. Yeah. Whoa. Jamie Roberts (04:54.108) Well, I feel like it's actually quite easy to explain that to teenagers. I don't think their brain is as solidified in how I should be or how this meet like they haven't locked into a rigid idea of who they are, what society expects, right? They're still growing and expanding. And especially how you said like, if they are already aware of being othered, they're already aware of that diversity. They already know that people are different. They are different. that society has a way of outcasting certain types of us. That like a lot of times when I'm doing assessments with adults, it's not that we weren't aware of these things, but our society labeled us differently, either lazy or quirky or weird or odd or outcast. Like we were already labeled, but often those labels had like a shame base to them. So there's a bit of like reclaiming about like, okay, and I'm quirky and. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (05:43.438) Mm-hmm. Jamie Roberts (05:49.092) And that is not the only thing that there is, right? Because we're talking about a social model, but we also have a conversation of the medical model because there are things that fall into this social idea of being like neurodivergent and what that means in contrast to neuronormativity. But we also have the medical model and we have neurodevelopmental differences and we have disabling qualities that come up with that. And there are certain supports and resources that are needed in order to just like function on a daily basis. So it is, it can become a complex conversation if you haven't had them before. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (06:25.95) And at the same time, isn't it such a validating conversation though, too? That's what you're saying. You're like, you know, hey, does it feel, do you feel sort of like you're the odd man out? Does it feel like you are a little bit different or weird or quirky? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, guess what? You know, maybe, maybe you are and good for you. You know? Yeah, welcome. Let me embrace that. Jamie Roberts (06:29.368) my gosh. Jamie Roberts (06:40.39) Yeah. Jamie Roberts (06:46.224) Yeah, there's a whole community of us. Yes. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (06:51.188) You know, when I was in grad school, which was, when dinosaurs roamed the earth, we, you know, had kind of a thing and it was, you didn't really say it out loud. It was like something you whispered in secret, but it was the FLK. And it was when you kind of didn't really know exactly what you were looking at, but you kind of had the like gut feeling and you hadn't quite identified it in the, in the data yet. But again, like you, you met a kid and you kind of had a feeling. And it was the FLK and that stood for the funny looking kid. And, and, and I mean, again, like you didn't say it out loud, but it was, that was the code for, well, this is an FLK. Like, I just haven't seen it in the data yet. I think I'm going to sometimes you didn't, but you still knew. And it was something that was probably going to come down the pipe later. The data just wasn't revealing it, but you know, it was something you were looking at and it was, and you know, of course. Jamie Roberts (07:24.197) Ugh. Jamie Roberts (07:38.162) Mm-hmm. Jamie Roberts (07:42.919) Mm-hmm. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (07:48.206) you wouldn't ever say that out loud. And it's a terrible thing to say. It was just something that was just sort of the norm in grad school way back in the 90s, you know, but, and now, you know, kind of we embrace that idea that we're just a little different. Jamie Roberts (07:53.116) Yeah. Jamie Roberts (07:56.432) Yeah. Yeah. Well, think that's something that has trickled down over the years about a lot of the ways that we pathologize people for their traits, for just how they think about it. And we put it in these categories and we label it as a disorder or a personality disorder. And it can be really pathologizing and negative and deficit based. Yeah. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (08:21.644) and pejorative. Yep. Yep. Jamie Roberts (08:24.242) It doesn't allow us to see the full person and all of their qualities. So yeah, I think there is a trickle down effect from kind of that earlier on way of which we were categorized in thinking of people. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (08:39.81) Yeah, yeah, it really is. It's a shame. I think that being able to say now, welcome and celebrating sort of this idea of like, you're really actually part of the majority and not part of the minority. I think it's really a very, a really exciting way of thinking about it. And so for you as an adult, learning this about yourself was that really affirming as well. Jamie Roberts (08:56.25) Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Jamie Roberts (09:07.0) my gosh, feel like, I felt like my third eye opened and like suddenly everything made sense, right? Like when people ask like how I got to this place in my career, I feel like there's two stories. I think there's the linear chronological story of like what the steps were. And then I think there's this also like retro active, looking back at the story of like what that underlying current was about. I was an undiagnosed autistic ADHD girl in the 90s who was just trying to understand herself, who got really into school as my special interest and hyper-focus, needing to study human behavior to figure out how to navigate the spaces I was in because my anxiety was so high because nothing was felt like it came naturally. to where I studied and got multiple degrees in psychology in this field working with neurodivergent kids. And was just like, when I got my diagnosis, I was like, well, duh, this actually makes sense. And I like relived everything and was like, yep, nope, explains it, explains it, explains it. So so much of the like, I had already been in my own therapy for like 15 years. Right, I wasn't a practicing therapist. And I was just like, Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (10:08.842) Duh! Jamie Roberts (10:24.4) This explains all of those walls and those blocks that my brain was hitting about why certain things still weren't clicking or where the depression was coming from, of the masking, of not being seen, of the amount of mental effort it was taking to perform neuro-normativity. And it just was like little attacks on the nervous system. Being able to understand my brain and having the privileges that I have to unmask and to be public about my identity has just lifted so much of that weight and like allowed me to be like a fuller version of myself. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (11:02.06) Yeah, that's amazing. love the, I think that the, of the things that I, I am especially excited about is the idea that now you've taken and, and the, what you were able to share in the PESI training that you did together with me a couple of weeks ago. and I did a deep dive in my last episode of the Supervision Simplified podcast into all the behind the scenes. So I did a little bit of. I went through everybody's slides and I did a little bit of talking about what you shared. And so, and I said that you were gonna be on. hopefully everybody is tuning in to hear a little bit more about this and they can purchase the recording so that they can get all of the juicy inside stuff. But one of the things I love about it was that now you've taken all of that and not only are you doing this work for yourself and of course then with your clients, but now you are Jamie Roberts (11:40.433) Yeah. Jamie Roberts (11:47.292) Yeah. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (11:59.118) doing the same work in your supervision. So they are doing this parallel processing work with the next generation of early career clinicians. And so how have you found that to be in that kind of landscape and that kind of work? Jamie Roberts (12:01.564) Mm-hmm. Jamie Roberts (12:08.466) Yes. Jamie Roberts (12:18.406) Yeah, I mean, forever my like motto has been to like become the person I needed when I was younger. And I don't think younger just means when I was a kid, but I think like younger in my life, younger in my career, younger in my experiences. So every time I learn something, I want to turn around and be like, okay, who else needs this? Like never wanting to gatekeep, never wanting to hold back, never seeing like competition in it, but like, hey, I learned something. This might help people who wants else wants to hear about it. How can I share that? Because There's so much in grad school. I think we maybe had one lesson in one class on autism when I was in grad school. And I think it focused on kids, which like kids grow up and become adults and we need to understand autistic adults as well. And so there's just so much information that like we just didn't have access to and needed to find it ourselves. it's not, it. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (13:07.021) Right? Jamie Roberts (13:13.862) wasn't easy to find before. It's getting easier to find that we're getting more research, we're getting more trainings on it that are affirming. And so I think being able to work with early clinicians and wanting to work with clinicians at any stage, because I think one of the beautiful things about our work is we're always learning and we're always wanting that new information. clinicians at any stage in their practice, it's a new lens, it's a new frame on how we do this work. because there's a lot of this deconstructing we weren't taught. And it is a different way to do therapy. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (13:46.946) Well, think that's really interesting to say because I have a number of, it's kind of sad, well, not sad, but funny, a number of undergrad degrees. I was a triple major, so kind of like you, like really overachieving. And I had no graduate education, so no graduate training in autism or neurodiversity or anything. I mean, I knew about it because I... Jamie Roberts (14:00.476) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jamie Roberts (14:07.548) Mm-hmm. Jamie Roberts (14:12.475) Okay. Okay. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (14:15.808) One of my undergrad degrees was education. But I went back before we talked today and also thought about this when we were talking about, when I've thought about neurodiversity in the past to look at my syllabi and have no training in neurodiversity at all in grad school. And so I really do think it's critically important. And my doctoral. Jamie Roberts (14:18.023) Mm-hmm. Jamie Roberts (14:33.584) Okay. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (14:41.666) degree is in developmental neuroscience. So again, like I have tons and tons of it, but most people have none, none. And so not even one class in one degree program, one, you know, like not, not even what the minimum. So having a day or two days or a week, like that's even still a little bit. I absolutely agree with you having. Jamie Roberts (14:49.392) Right. Right. Jamie Roberts (15:05.766) Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (15:08.802) training in developmental neuroscience or developmental work or the developing brain so that you can understand that trajectory and then what to expect as adults with your adult clients that informs attachment, informs learning, that informs executive functioning, that informs planning and attention, that informs all of those kinds of things. So critical. Jamie Roberts (15:15.633) Hmm. Jamie Roberts (15:21.97) Yeah. Jamie Roberts (15:32.838) Yeah, relationships, communication. Like, I strongly believe that whether as a clinician, you know it or not, you have more autistic clients in your practice than you think you do. And if you think you have none, if you think you have none, you are wrong. You just, the client may not know it, you may not know it, but it is there, it is in the room because so many of us... Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (15:51.542) Right. Absolutely. Jamie Roberts (15:58.204) have been trying to find the answers and have been told we're doing it wrong, that we do turn to therapy to try and understand ourselves or try to understand to connect in our relationships better, that I think that there is a larger majority, larger percentage of autistics in therapy and in your practice than we might be aware of. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (16:16.13) Yep. So when you're working with a supervisee, and maybe this is digging into a little bit of your training that you did with PESI, and then we'll talk a little bit about what you're going to be doing in the future with PESI too, so we can whet everybody's whistle for your future work and things to look forward to that they can do with you. But when you're working with a supervisee, and also not just early career clinicians, but as you said, working with other clinicians that are doing this work as well, do you first... Jamie Roberts (16:26.62) No. No. No. No. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (16:45.304) have them examine their own neuro pathways or their own sort of like neuro existence. Let's like define it like that. Do you have them look at their own neuro existence? Jamie Roberts (16:56.378) Yeah. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (17:04.511) Like, as when they start with you. Jamie Roberts (17:04.722) mean, yes, but the part that's like built into it, right? Like I don't require anybody to disclose their neuro type, right? That is somebody's personal information. If they want to share, great. Especially at my practice, we do prioritize lived experience because that we're working with teens, their self disclosure that comes with that, that we do prioritize that piece. So a lot of people come in having already kind of identified or curious or explored that. But anyone I'm working with, Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (17:13.335) Okay. Jamie Roberts (17:33.198) Not necessarily like I need you to examine this piece, but like how do you think about things? Where did you learn that? Why are you doing it that way? How does that fit in this? think there's a lot of right we talk about like external expectations or Things that are just implicitly talked to us like the shoulds of our society. What is normal? How do you dress professional? According to who who decided that who decided that in that space? really kind of like Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (17:39.831) Okay. Jamie Roberts (18:00.634) deconstructing or decolonizing and questioning what that status quo is and how we fit into it. Because there's a lot of messages we have about ourselves and I think that's the conversation that I start with, with new clinicians, to kind of like, here are our rules, why are they our rules? Do we agree with those rules? Do they fit for us? Do they fit for our practice? Do they fit for our clients? Is there anything about these rules we can change? Are we aware about why that fits for us or not? Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (18:18.84) Mm-hmm. Jamie Roberts (18:29.33) Like I want them to have that deeper understanding of themselves, right? Cause if we, remember learning that like, if I haven't gone there myself, how do I take a client there? Right? We don't have to have the same lived experience, but if I haven't done that depth of self-reflection or that depth of understanding of myself, how do I guide somebody else there? And so I think that is a piece of, I think to speak to your original question of supporting them and reflecting on what they're. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (18:38.626) Right, right. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (18:49.538) Right. Jamie Roberts (18:57.168) way of processing information is so that they can help clients understand how they process and understand information in the world around them. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (19:04.983) So that comes from in your work with clinicians and supervision, that comes from a series of questions and conversations before you're even starting to talk about cases or clinical work. You're talking about how they're approaching their work with clients, how they're thinking about their own neurotypical or neurodiverse thinking and structures and learning and lived experience and background and how they think about things. they're thinking actively and critically about all of these things. Jamie Roberts (19:28.242) Yeah. Jamie Roberts (19:34.226) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (19:35.116) and how they've experienced it and how they've questioned it for themselves so that they are doing their own deep dive. Jamie Roberts (19:39.662) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, because think about you get somebody fresh out of grad school. We've been taught a treatment plan. We've been taught like some of the more like structured modalities and they've got their treatment plan and they've practiced the scripts in the classroom and then they have a client in front of them and that script doesn't work for every client, right? And we want to make sure we are conveying information in a way or we're asking the intake questions in a way that the client you're building rapport at the same time. And so having to get like getting to practice those conversations and having scripts is great. Like a lot of us have scripts for especially the things we have to repeat on a regular basis. But we often come in with this rigid idea and I think we need to start with a solid foundation. But how do we learn which things we mold and shape to fit each client in front of us? But also like what's my style? What's my, cause I'm not gonna be the right therapist for everyone. I'm not gonna be the right supervisor for everyone. What is my style? Am I aware of my style? Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (20:29.336) Right. Jamie Roberts (20:35.804) that I can let the other person I'm working with know that so that they can also choose if they want to work with me. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (20:41.71) Are you finding, okay, so here's an interesting question because I work with so many supervisees as do you, but also lots of supervisors who I know probably are freaking out as they listen to us talk because they're thinking, okay, well, how do I do this? Okay, I'm hearing what you guys are saying. This sounds all great and everything, but I still don't know how to do this. Like I still have to sign off on their notes and. and have these clinical conversations and talk about their clients and fill out a contract and da da. Like, how do I do this? It sounds like it's gonna take so much time and I don't know how to have this conversation. Like, how do we do this? And I want to encourage supervisors to slow the roll. Supervisors are so intent on rushing through this process of supervision. without taking the time to do this level of connecting with their supervisees and allowing them to think through these kinds of broaching topics. How did you train yourself to be good at that? Jamie Roberts (21:48.21) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jamie Roberts (22:00.082) That's such a big question, Amy! Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (22:03.874) Well, I I think it's hard to do. I mean, think about it. Like we are, they're so, so, you know, like it's a demanding thing. And I know a lot of left brain supervisors who are thinking, I can't do that. So for the non-chill supervisors that are out there, we need to help them think about this because we need them to do this thing too. Jamie Roberts (22:07.644) Wow, wow. Jamie Roberts (22:13.99) Yeah. Yeah. Jamie Roberts (22:21.339) I think... Jamie Roberts (22:26.79) Yeah. Yeah. Jamie Roberts (22:32.08) I think having the reminder that it's an ongoing process. It's not a one-time thing. It's not a one-time, okay, I set up what the system's gonna be for my supervision and it's set, but it's an ongoing adjustment and recalibration depending on who your supervisee is or if you have a group or if the group dynamics change, you're always kind of adjusting. And it's okay to say, you know what? I don't know that answer. Let me figure something out. It's okay to say that, hey, this is how we're doing it. And now I've realized that doesn't work for all of us. So now we're gonna do it different, right? Of being able to pivot and be okay with pivoting. And you don't have to urgently frantically scramble and make a change. Like you can still be thoughtful and intentional with those changes, but acknowledging when something may not be working anymore or acknowledging where you might need a change or that like, hey, that worked for me then and it doesn't work for me now. And that's okay to adjust. So. Trial and error is also a piece of it. And I know like we don't like to error and we wanna like do it right the first time, but that's part of learning, right? Of like every time you learn something more, you learn more and you learn more to keep adjusting like what your system and what your practice is. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (23:47.23) I can think of 10 supervisors just off the top of my head who are like, I want a form, I want a checklist. I want to be able to go through and make sure that I've covered all the bases. I love that you said like, you can pivot, you can adjust. Because what I try really hard to teach supervisors that I supervise is that it's okay to say to your supervisee, hey, listen, we're going to take a different road here. We're going to go like, we're going to take a different direction. Jamie Roberts (23:53.106) Yeah. Jamie Roberts (24:16.571) Mm-hmm. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (24:16.578) you know, we've been working on A, B and C, we're gonna go to Z right now and we're gonna work backwards. And they're like, what? No, no, no, we can't do that. What are you talking about? And I'm like, why not? Like, of course we can. Because my job is to make sure that you're covering the whole alphabet. No one said we have to cover it in order. And no one said, Jamie Roberts (24:21.456) Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? Why not? Why not? Yeah. Yeah. Jamie Roberts (24:39.216) Yes. Yeah, exactly. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (24:44.526) And no one said we can't cover the same letters over and over again until we get them right. And actually no one defined what right means. And so let's, yeah, so let's just keep, let's just keep seeing because you the fact of the matter is what right meant in 2020 isn't the same in 2026. So. Jamie Roberts (24:50.642) Right. Jamie Roberts (24:56.658) part. Jamie Roberts (25:05.922) absolutely. Absolutely. And so that was actually like a big part of the training that, so it was at the supervision summit and the training was on neurodiversity supervision. And the big piece of that conversation was about universal design and about like universal design within the learning space, within the disability advocacy space of how do we create avenues of access. that work for many people, regardless of whatever their diagnosis or no diagnosis or need might be, that it is available just to make the process easier. And part of it is, is if I make an adjustment with how we do documentation in this area because this person needs this executive function support, down the line, it may benefit somebody else in a completely unrelated way, but because we have those systems in place or that variety available in how we do documentation, it actually meets more needs of the people that we're working with. we can't know everything, but we can't outfit our practice or our supervision to meet every need of every person because it's very possible that we have people in our supervision who might have contrasting needs. And so how do we have that conversation? How do we negotiate that if there's differences in how the boundaries or the limits or the accommodations or the accountability that different people in our group need? and also reflecting on our capacity as a supervisor. As a supervisor, it may not be within your capacity to meet everyone's needs in that group. And can you acknowledge that? Can you name that? Can you take that accountability of, I might not be the right fit because of my limitations, right? We don't want to stretch ourselves thin or box people out because of we're setting arbitrary limits. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (26:47.373) Right. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (26:54.03) And in fact, it shouldn't be within your capacity to meet the needs of everybody in your group. That would be frankly impossible. That would mean that you're perfect for everybody. And that's one of the reasons why we created the clinical supervision directory because no one's perfect for everybody. And that is one of the biggest problems with our system is we just assume that the supervisor that you're connected with is going to know exactly how to handle every client that you're connected with. And that's just not the way it works. Jamie Roberts (26:58.396) Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Jamie Roberts (27:14.93) Mm-hmm. Jamie Roberts (27:21.232) Yeah, it really isn't. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (27:24.768) So, you know, all of those things, all of those things make it true. So one of the things that we know that you're doing is you're creating, you created Neuropebl because you identified that there is a gap and you are very good. And I'm going to acknowledge that I'm good too at seeing the gaps that are existing in the world. So you noticed a gap and tell us how you filled it with Neuropebl. Jamie Roberts (27:45.969) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so we've had a really booming expansion of neurodiversity, affirming information and knowledge and research and awareness and representation in the last five to seven years. It is just expanding greatly. But we're still in these little niche silos and pockets. And so I was noticing, myself included, a lot of us creating very similar things. And I love that we need different people speaking on the same topics to learn it in different ways. But then it was always hard to find if I was looking for a neuroaffirming supervision training, where do I find it? Right? Because at different points that those were hard to find or how the language is being used. And as language integrates more into society, it starts to get co-opted a little bit as well. So people might start using or putting on their profiles that I'm neurodivergent affirming, but they're actually not. They just know that that's what people are looking for. wanted to one, create a space that people knew that the trainings were vetted, that the instructors were vetted, that we knew that this was coming from lived experience, that this was like a depth of knowledge and not just all of the intro courses, but that we could go deeper with the information we were talking about. And I know that I am not the only one who talks about this stuff. I have so many amazing colleagues that have such different experiences for myself and have different areas of their own special interests and their clinical expertise. Jamie Roberts (29:17.116) that I was noticing they would do a training and somebody would post, I'm looking for this OCD training. And a friend would comment and be like, I just did one. I'll let you know the next time. And then it would just be a dead end. I was like, well, if I've already done the executive function piece on my end to set up my platform, what if I just threw somebody else's course on there? So then my NeuroDivergent friends didn't have to do the executive function piece, but also it created this one spot, this course catalog where people can come where whatever you're thinking, I wonder if this exists. come check out NeuroPebble, we might have it. Because we have a lot of really awesome topics of really cool intersecting things from that affirming clinical perspective. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (29:58.114) Fantastic, fantastic. I would love to put a neuropebble link on the clinical supervision directory site so that we can absolutely have people be able to find that kind of training because it's an absolute necessity for, as you said, clinicians are getting it and they need to be able to have access to that kind of training. So let's make sure to, I'll have my people call your people. you know, we'll definitely connect to do that. So I think that that would be really fun. And as you think about, Jamie Roberts (30:04.146) Absolutely. Jamie Roberts (30:20.879) Sure, we'll connect. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (30:27.764) other trainings that you want supervisors and clinicians to be getting. I know you said that there are things that are coming up that are on the horizon that you're thinking about doing. So what are some of your, you have a book coming out in April. So what are your big plans coming up? Jamie Roberts (30:42.886) Yes, coming up, yes, next or two weeks from now, I'm presenting at ADHD, I connect international summit. So I'm presenting there on the story of like the, the missed the dismissed and the misdiagnosed ADHD woman story about how we're not being diagnosed as children. I have my book coming out in April on neurodiversity for teen girls. So I'm probably gonna be doing more focus on teen topics. I'm presenting at KDK Mays. Teen Conference in April as well on the Autistic Girl. So lots of different conferences and summits. I'm in talks with Pesci. Nothing's confirmed yet, but we're talking about like a neurodivergent teen full day training there. So there's a lot that's already on the books. I'm gonna lean into the teen aspect, but my other branch is really in the assessment space. So I also teach courses on how master's level clinicians. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (31:13.71) Awesome. Awesome. Jamie Roberts (31:38.438) that we do have the capability and the scope and the knowledge to do diagnostic assessments for ADHD and autism. Caveat, that is state and license dependent. So please check with your own state about what those limitations may be. And there is still room for us to practice within scope and provide more depth of clinical understanding of diagnostics so we can help support people and having that clarity about their neuro type. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (32:06.912) Yeah, absolutely. So many fun, fun things coming up. That's really, that is just, you have so much to offer and so many really cool things. What are you doing in the rest of your life? You just moved. What else is going on? Yeah. Uh-huh. Jamie Roberts (32:18.29) I did. just moved. I mean, that was the biggest one. So I just moved back to LA, which I'm very, happy about. I'm so happy to be in a walkable city. I have my two kitties that are somewhere around here. I'm going to New Zealand next month on a neurodivergent entrepreneur retreat. So I'm very excited to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (32:37.89) Wow. Wow. and you have all these speaking things coming up this year. That's incredible. So is that the direction that... Yes, absolutely. Is that the direction you wanna go or is writing the direction you wanna go? Is group practice, like where's the direction you wanna go? Do you know? Jamie Roberts (32:45.488) Yes. Yes. I'm a verbal processor. I like to talk. Jamie Roberts (32:59.038) I think I want to go into the speak, continue with the speaking direction. I'm actually in the process of downsizing my group practice. I came to, came to a cusp about a year and a half, two years ago of my group practice was growing, neuropebble was starting and I got a book deal and I was like, I can't do all three of these. And so I had to kind of evaluate where all of my pieces on the checkerboard were. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (33:03.246) Mm-hmm. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (33:22.125) Right. Jamie Roberts (33:27.378) And right now it's making sense to decrease some of the clinical space. So we're in the process of kind of downsizing there, still doing assessments. While I like putting books out, writing is really hard for me. I'm dyslexic and I'm a verbal processor. So writing takes a lot of energy out for me. So my first book was three years ago and then, or no, my first book came out in 21, 22, came out in 22. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (33:41.166) Mm. Jamie Roberts (33:55.366) This book is coming out in 26, but I wrote it over the last year and a half to two years. So I feel like if I have like two to three years between each book and take some breaks, but I'm sure I'll do another one at some point. But yeah, I think the speaking training entrepreneur space is where I'm at right now. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (34:12.61) Well, and think growing neuropebble, I think could be a really big, I mean, that's obviously still speaking too. Yeah. Jamie Roberts (34:18.258) yeah, absolutely. yeah, NeuroPubl has just, the iteration that it is right now has barely been a year. Like it really launched last January. I started the company before that, but it was really just like my trainings, but being able to host other clinicians, we're putting together our own summit. So that is going to be announced pretty soon. So we can have like a full day summit on very specific topics to do some deep dives in that space. So we'll be doing that more frequently. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (34:40.526) Cool. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (34:46.382) Okay, cool, very cool. Well, I would love to have a training specifically in the CSD site on neurodiversity and supervision. So similar to the one that you did for Pesci and obviously slightly different than the one you did for... Yes, absolutely. You can have more than an hour. We will absolutely, of course, pay you to do it. Probably not nearly as much as Pesci did, but... Jamie Roberts (34:47.756) yeah. Jamie Roberts (35:00.89) Yeah. Jamie Roberts (35:04.934) Can I have more than an hour? you Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (35:14.294) Of course we will pay you and we would love to do that. And we'll talk more about that, but we would really love that. And obviously it's a really necessary thing. People wanted way more than an hour as we talked about. So we will definitely do a few hours. And let you, yeah, let you go. We'll do like a part, we'll do a couple of parts. I think that would be really great. And I would also really love to do, Jamie Roberts (35:22.78) Yeah. Jamie Roberts (35:29.446) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. There was... I have way more to say than what one hour would allow me. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (35:42.804) something for the supervisee maybe too would be like another side of it, like coming into it and like what to look for in a supervisor and how to ask the right questions maybe would be another direction. But I really would love to do that. I think that that would be really fantastic and fun together. And also I want all the credit for giving you Teppesi. So I would appreciate all the credit for that. Jamie Roberts (35:48.978) Hmm. yeah. Jamie Roberts (35:56.646) Yes. Jamie Roberts (36:10.492) Yes, yes, thank you so much for putting my name in the hat. Thank you, Amy. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (36:15.566) Unless they do you dirty then, then I don't want any credit for that, but they won't because I think that they are doing some good work for us in the industry at this moment. So I'm really proud of that. But anyway, thank you so much for spending time with me today. It was super fun. I think that you are doing some incredible things. I know you're doing some incredible things. Jamie Roberts (36:21.901) That won't happen. We'll be good. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (36:39.734) And it's really fun to talk to you and our audience, I know really appreciates this opportunity to hear more about the idea of bringing neurodiversity and non-neurotypical work into the field and learning more and figuring out what they need to know more about too. Jamie Roberts (36:56.57) Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure as always and I'm excited to see everything that's to come. Dr. Amy Parks, LPC, ACS (37:01.038) This was fun. Yeah, we'll see what's coming up next. Thank you for joining us for Supervision Simplified. And remember that the legacy of all supervision starts here and we hope that you enjoyed this episode. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks, take care.