Speaker: 00:00:00

The Watts riots of 1965 lay destruction

in its wake.

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Fast forward to the early nineties

and the urban youth are still trying

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to find their way broken homes, gang

violence and the drug game dot the hood.

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Caine finds himself embroiled

in the turmoil, having grown up with

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little means, and as the child of a dealer

and an addict.

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Will Caine break the cycle

or remain a menace to himself

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and a menace to society?

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Bring it!

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C’mon!

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Welcome to Hip Hop Movie Club.

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This is a show for Gen-X

hip hop fans want to relive the glory days

00:00:44,708 --> 00:00:49,083

and reconsider classic and modern hip

hop films from a current day perspective.

00:00:49,166 --> 00:00:51,500

Together, we'll explore

some of the largest societal issues

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raised in these films.

00:00:53,041 --> 00:00:56,375

Whether you have or have not seen Menace

II Society before,

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we’ll help you decide if you should take

the time to watch it now.

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Either way, you’ll be a smarter

hip hop fan by the end of this episode.

00:01:03,041 --> 00:01:06,000

In the next 30 minutes or so,

you'll get all this and more.

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We are three

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old heads who put their old heads

together, to vibe on these films for you.

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I'm DynoWright, podcaster, filmmaker,

long time hip hop fan, and the first

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hip hop act I ever saw live was Arrested

Development at Lollapalooza in 1993.

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I'm JB eighties and

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nineties nostalgia junkie, longtime

hip hop fan, and I recently saw the hip

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hop duo Rae Sremmurd perform at Hofstra

University's Fall Fest.

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I'm BooGie, a deejay,

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long time

hip hop fan, and in addition to my wax,

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also have a pretty nice

cassette collection, complete

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with a working Aiwa walkman

and a Sanyo boombox.

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In this episode,

we'll answer the question,

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does Menace

II Society still resonate today?

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Bring it!

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C’mon!

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Menace

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II Society is a crime drama

depicting the formative years

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of Caine Lawson

growing up around drugs and violent crime.

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Caine narrates his own story,

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navigating through the projects

and living in thug life.

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We can only hope

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he can reform his ways

and find a safe exit strategy.

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This movie was from 1993.

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So let's get into Menace II Society.

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Dig right in,

I think. Let's start at the top.

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So take us through the now famous

and often parodied

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opening scene

that takes place in a convenience store.

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BooGie,

lay the foundation of what happens there.

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Sure, I could do that

sort of opening scene of the movie shows

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Caine and O-Dog

walk into the local convenience store,

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talking about meeting up later

and things they're about to get into.

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There's an Asian woman

cleaning in the store,

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and O-Dog immediately responds to her like

she doesn’t have to follow them around.

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So they grab their 40 ounces

and as they’re about to open it

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The male cashier tells him that

they can't drink the beer in the store.

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And O-Dog was like,

Yeah, you know, we're going to pay,

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we're going to pay for whatever,

whatever, whatever. So then

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the lady responds.

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Hurry up and buy,

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which is one of the famous

lines, that’s parodied in

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Don't be a Menace to South Central

by Drinking Your Juice in the Hood,

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and also the scenario of her

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following him around the store

in various places and popping up,

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hiding out throughout the store.

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So then the cashier tells me

I have to pay it, meaning

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that they should just hurry up and go.

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And the lady just kind of watching them,

you know, following around or whatever.

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So Caine tells O-Dog to get his change,

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and he starts walking towards the door

with his 40-ounce in his hand.

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And then O-Dog says “What’s up

with my man’s

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change”, to which

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the cashier gives him his change.

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And he says, I feel sorry for your mother.

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Another line that's

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popped up in Don’t

Be a Menace to South Central

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While Drinking Your Juice in the Hood,

to which O-Dog responds

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“What you say about my mama?” Famous line

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also parodied in that movie,

but well, he immediately

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walks over to the cashier in a rage

and the cinematography

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just kind of pans over as you see

Caine with his 40-ounce in his hand.

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And we see a gunshots ringing

off, 40-ounce hits the floor.

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And then we look over, we see O-Dog

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just kind of shooting

the man behind the register.

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He grabs the woman

who's who's there as a witness now

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and tells takes her to the back to go

grab the security tape

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and he's telling

her to hurry up and eject it,

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and then you hear him shoot her as well,

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which is very unfortunate.

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Then Caine runs out,

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O-Dog runs out and is telling Caine that,

you know, hurry up.

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I thought you were going to open up

the register.

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And as O-Dog runs to the register

he only finds $6.

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So it was like, wow.

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But then he immediately starts to pat down

the victim,

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the man who's laying there

and take the rest of the money

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that he found on them,

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and he hops over the counter,

before he leaves,

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he grabs his 40-ounce and they were out.

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So it's just like,

wow, just the way it escalated in

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a matter of seconds is just unreal.

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It's jarring

if you've never seen that scene before.

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And I've seen it several times,

and it still jars me a bit because

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of how quickly

it escalated, had the temperament

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that O-Dog displays in this situation.

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But as I said it's been parodied

a few times and the parodies

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are much funnier

and they bring a lot more light to it.

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But yeah, that lays it out right there.

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Yeah, good breakdown.

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And I think it's important

for historical perspective

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because I was reading more up

on the tensions

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in the Watts area

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and the store owners are Korean

and there was palpable

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tension between the the two communities,

the Korean community, the Black community.

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There was a famous killing

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of Latasha Harlins in 1991 at the hands

of a Korean convenience store owner.

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And then there was other incidents

after the Rodney

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King riots in Koreatown section in 92.

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So the Hughes brothers, you know,

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played off of that with this scene.

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So palpable tension,

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you know, art imitating life, so to speak.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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The this scene sets up

the rest of the movie

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and it doesn't escalate until the Korean

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store owner says,

I feel sorry for your mother,

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bringing into focus like a real problem

here.

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This movie

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violates is that the O-Dog

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and Caine don't really have parents

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and the support system –

and we'll talk about this – is

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not really there for them and you know

this is their way of dealing with it

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is to shoot the two store owners.

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Yeah. So it's it's horrible.

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But this is the situation

they find themselves in.

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Yeah.

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Like you said, the scene is jarring.

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It shocked and captivated audiences.

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Remember, this is 1993,

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not much of this raw violence was

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documented

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before even in, you know,

a fictional story.

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But again, life imitates art.

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So this was

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this this had happened,

you know, similar incidents had occurred.

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What's crazy in researching it,

too, is the Hughes brothers,

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Allen and Albert Hughes were

just 20 years old when they made the film,

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and their goal was to

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shock

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and educate white America,

you know, through shock value.

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So it sure did that did the job there.

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And it's two years after Boyz n

the Hood still.

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Right, right, right.

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We're going to talk about like comparing

and contrasting Boyz N the Hood.

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So right, it's two years after that.

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But wow, that opening scene, it

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it is a very

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legendary scene in crime dramas.

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Yeah.

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And I read that Larenz Tate ad libbed

“What you say about my mama?”

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which is amazing. Wow. Yeah,

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yeah,

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yeah.

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And even that that whole

the security tape,

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that O-Dog eventually does

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grab out of the back

with the woman that tape

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is constantly coming up

throughout the movie

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in various scenarios

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because it becomes a mockery

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to watch that scene

where the guys sit around

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with their drinks, you know, smoking

or whatever and watch that as a is a

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parody of what happened.

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Like laughing at it. It's it's crazy.

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Yeah, he was proud.

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He was celebrating it, like boasting

about what he had done like.

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Selling copies of it Street cred.

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This is his SportsCenter

top ten highlight.

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So you know, it's funny,

we have younger listeners out here

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even to understand this concept,

because nowadays everybody in cell phones,

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this would have been

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one of them would have been filming it

on a cell phone, recording it,

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and then they'd be sharing it

through social media, hopefully not

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letting it get out to the authorities

somehow trusting the people.

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But back in the day,

it was a physical tape that was in

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the surveillance camera,

sitting in the convenience store

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that they had to eject and a physical tape

that was important

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that he wanted to make sure he possessed

so that the authorities wouldn't get it.

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But again, he ended up replaying it for

other people and celebrating, which was

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savage

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for sure.

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So Caine, the main character

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Caine, the protagonist,

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as we as you mentioned DynoWright,

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born into a life of crime,

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addict and dealer

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for parents who both died young because of

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the world

in which they lived and circumstances.

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Do you empathize with Caine?

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Are you rooting for him

throughout the movie?

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Why or why not?

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DynoWright,

you want to kick off on this one?

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Sure.

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I was rooting for him

because he had a rough

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upbringing and generally he wasn't

looking for trouble in the beginning.

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But then the life just took over him.

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But he's not so much pulled into it

as that he chooses to, to live that life.

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And so

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I was rooting for him at first,

but then I'm like,

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this is not going to end well for him.

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And it turns into an anti-hero, I guess.

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Right.

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Yeah, I guess the root

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as much as you can root from,

just root for him to survive the movie.

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Yeah. You root for him

to maybe reform himself as. What I was.

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Yeah. You know, he was trying.

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I guess he, you know, even though he

he did embrace the lifestyle, he also

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I think he came to the realization

that he needed to get out.

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And so he was going to

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and then we find out, we see what happens.

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Yeah. Right before he leaves.

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BooGie, what are your thoughts?

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Were you rooting for Caine?

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Yeah, it's hard for me not to

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to empathize

with Caine to a certain extent.

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I mean, I understand

that he is the product of his parents

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to an extent, and product

of his environment to an extent.

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I mean, but he also has a loving

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set of loving, nurturing grandparents,

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you know, that want to see him

become a good person.

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Like they

you know, upright religious folks.

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And they even if they sat down,

they would talk with them,

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they would spend time with them.

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They would say, give him encouraging words

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repeatedly throughout the film.

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You see them, you know,

pushing for him to do the right thing,

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even pulling O-Dog in

and talking with O-Dog as well.

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You know, So, you know, also,

I like to see

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the underdog succeed, like you know that

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because of his environment that he's in.

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He's he's the underdog.

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He's just he's on his way to becoming

a statistic by his actions growing up.

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Flipside, it's hard

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to root for him because he continues

to participate in knucklehead behavior.

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You know, like the incident

when his cousin was

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was murdered in a carjacking,

they knew who the people were,

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they had a perfect opportunity to get the

authorities involved in that situation.

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But no, they went

and handled it themselves, you know.

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You know, even when he met the girl Ilena

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00:13:06,750 --> 00:13:10,708

and, you know, she called him and told her

I told him that she was pregnant.

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His immediate reaction was to almost

abandon her in that situation

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and claim that it wasn't even his child.

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We had the the the Mustang 5.0.

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00:13:22,833 --> 00:13:24,500

He had factory rims on it.

251

00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:25,208

But what did he do?

252

00:13:25,208 --> 00:13:29,250

He went out and robbed the guy

for his Daytons, to put them on his car,

253

00:13:29,333 --> 00:13:33,208

you know, And then even when Ilena’s

cousin came over to confront him about,

254

00:13:33,291 --> 00:13:36,666

you know, you know, dissing Ilena.

255

00:13:36,750 --> 00:13:39,750

I mean, you okay, A fight is a fight, but

256

00:13:39,833 --> 00:13:43,291

the extent to which you beat him was

was was brutal,

257

00:13:43,291 --> 00:13:46,833

like stomping repeatedly on his head

while he's on the ground.

258

00:13:46,916 --> 00:13:49,625

You know, things like that,

259

00:13:49,708 --> 00:13:50,708

it kind of

260

00:13:50,708 --> 00:13:53,708

makes it hard for you

to to want to root for him.

261

00:13:53,708 --> 00:13:57,875

But like DynoWright said, like you're

rooting for him to survive the movie

262

00:13:57,958 --> 00:14:01,291

because you know that the path that he's

going down, something is going to happen.

263

00:14:01,375 --> 00:14:06,500

But then it was like the light side of it

when you're Ronnie and even

264

00:14:06,583 --> 00:14:09,500

what’s his name Sharif and Stacy,

265

00:14:09,500 --> 00:14:13,500

were trying to get him to go to Kansas,

you know, And then Ronnie's like,

266

00:14:13,500 --> 00:14:15,000

you know,

why don’t you come to Atlanta with us?

267

00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,250

And he finally was like alright,

looks like he was going to go.

268

00:14:18,291 --> 00:14:21,291

But, you know, as the cliche saying goes,

269

00:14:21,541 --> 00:14:24,291

life comes at you fast.

270

00:14:24,291 --> 00:14:28,583

And it sure did, right

when he was ready to make a move.

271

00:14:28,666 --> 00:14:29,000

Yeah.

272

00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,000

Great. Breakdown.

273

00:14:32,166 --> 00:14:34,583

I was rooting for him

to turn his life around again.

274

00:14:34,583 --> 00:14:38,583

I grimaced at all the brutality that he

275

00:14:38,666 --> 00:14:42,708

put out there in the world.

276

00:14:42,791 --> 00:14:47,500

Carjacking you know, retaliation murder.

277

00:14:47,583 --> 00:14:47,916

Rough.

278

00:14:47,916 --> 00:14:52,750

But he he did have a soft spot for

279

00:14:52,791 --> 00:14:57,333

Pernell, who was his mentor, and Ronnie's

son while Pernell was in prison.

280

00:14:57,333 --> 00:14:58,583

Like the little boy, Anthony.

281

00:14:58,583 --> 00:14:59,250

He would,

282

00:14:59,250 --> 00:15:03,458

I think, either bought him a Big Wheel or,

you know, said he was going to.

283

00:15:03,458 --> 00:15:06,458

And he would continuously give money

to Ronnie

284

00:15:06,500 --> 00:15:10,083

to help care for Anthony, because,

285

00:15:10,166 --> 00:15:13,750

you know, note Pernell was locked up.

286

00:15:13,791 --> 00:15:18,166

So he did have a loving side,

but it was just shrouded

287

00:15:18,166 --> 00:15:24,250

by all the hardness

from his upbringing and his surroundings.

288

00:15:24,333 --> 00:15:26,833

So we didn't mention

his father was played by Samuel L.

289

00:15:26,833 --> 00:15:33,625

Jackson, and the character

Ronnie was Jada Pinkett Smith.

290

00:15:33,708 --> 00:15:35,750

So some big names in here.

291

00:15:35,750 --> 00:15:36,916

Yeah.

292

00:15:36,916 --> 00:15:37,500

For sure. But

293

00:15:39,958 --> 00:15:43,666

Let’s talk a little bit more about Caine's

support system.

294

00:15:43,666 --> 00:15:46,666

What comprised Caine's support system?

295

00:15:46,666 --> 00:15:50,791

Who who was

who were the influences for him?

296

00:15:50,875 --> 00:15:53,208

Boogie want to take that as well?

297

00:15:53,208 --> 00:15:57,125

Yeah, I mean,

I think touched on it a little bit.

298

00:15:57,208 --> 00:16:00,125

But he did like I said he did

h have his grandparents.

299

00:16:00,125 --> 00:16:04,291

I mean, that was his primary support.

300

00:16:04,375 --> 00:16:09,041

I mean, he lived with them

and they fed him and provided for him up

301

00:16:09,083 --> 00:16:10,291

until he got to the point

302

00:16:10,291 --> 00:16:14,583

where he started hustling

and kind of somewhat doing it for himself.

303

00:16:14,666 --> 00:16:16,750

But they were there for him.

304

00:16:16,750 --> 00:16:18,791

And I mean, they tried to as best

they could.

305

00:16:18,791 --> 00:16:22,125

I mean, granted, it would probably be

a little different had they been younger

306

00:16:22,208 --> 00:16:26,250

and, you know, probably able to go outside

and kind of chase him around, whatever.

307

00:16:26,250 --> 00:16:29,291

But they were definitely there for him.

308

00:16:29,375 --> 00:16:32,791

You did mention you mentioned Ronnie.

309

00:16:32,875 --> 00:16:36,666

She was very supportive of him as well,

and she cared very deeply for him,

310

00:16:36,708 --> 00:16:38,333

you could see it from the beginning

311

00:16:38,333 --> 00:16:41,791

that there was a connection

between the two of them,

312

00:16:41,875 --> 00:16:45,541

but she was was looking out for him

and wanted him to do good.

313

00:16:45,541 --> 00:16:48,541

And she was the one who was trying to

encourage him to leave and come with her

314

00:16:48,750 --> 00:16:51,708

to just get away and just start over.

315

00:16:51,708 --> 00:16:54,541

Even as his boys, Sharif and Stacy,

like I said,

316

00:16:54,541 --> 00:16:58,291

mentioned earlier they were trying

to get him to move to Kansas

317

00:16:58,375 --> 00:17:01,458

with them because they knew it wasn't

that there was nothing going on

318

00:17:01,458 --> 00:17:02,583

in South Central LA either.

319

00:17:02,583 --> 00:17:04,708

they were like, we got to get out of here.

320

00:17:04,708 --> 00:17:08,291

You should come with us, even to the point

where Sharif’s father, Mr.

321

00:17:08,291 --> 00:17:10,791

Butler, stepped in

and was trying to talk to them.

322

00:17:10,791 --> 00:17:14,375

And that was he's

he was a great role model.

323

00:17:14,458 --> 00:17:18,583

And as he said,

there's a statement he mentioned,

324

00:17:18,666 --> 00:17:22,083

in regards to Sharif, when he said,

you know, know

325

00:17:22,166 --> 00:17:27,458

referring to the Nation of Islam,

being able to give Sharif that support,

326

00:17:27,541 --> 00:17:31,375

that to make him a better person,

the said, listen, I don't care,

327

00:17:31,458 --> 00:17:35,583

you know, if he's Muslim or not, like he's

making my son a better person.

328

00:17:35,583 --> 00:17:37,333

I'm all for it,

329

00:17:37,333 --> 00:17:37,750

you know?

330

00:17:37,750 --> 00:17:39,541

And he was just like,

you know, I don't understand it.

331

00:17:39,541 --> 00:17:44,041

I'm not Muslim, but, hey, it's helping

my son, it’s good, you know?

332

00:17:44,041 --> 00:17:45,958

So stuff like that, you know?

333

00:17:45,958 --> 00:17:48,666

But like I said,

I think those are probably probably

334

00:17:48,666 --> 00:17:54,541

the primary positive influences

in his life.

335

00:17:54,625 --> 00:17:54,833

Yeah.

336

00:17:54,833 --> 00:17:59,041

I thought the one powerful speech, Mr.

337

00:17:59,041 --> 00:18:04,625

Butler, Sharif's dad, very slowly stating

of being a Black man in America is tough.

338

00:18:04,708 --> 00:18:05,708

You are the prey.

339

00:18:05,708 --> 00:18:09,541

Just survive.

Like he tried to drill that into

340

00:18:09,625 --> 00:18:11,666

Caine, but he just wouldn't listen.

341

00:18:11,666 --> 00:18:14,750

He was too embroiled in his lifestyle.

342

00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,958

It was hard to get out.

343

00:18:16,958 --> 00:18:19,166

But yeah,

he had those other opportunities.

344

00:18:19,166 --> 00:18:23,250

The grandparents were very proud of him

that he was getting his diploma

345

00:18:23,250 --> 00:18:26,541

and they were religious

and they could tell

346

00:18:26,541 --> 00:18:30,416

that Caine was uncomfortable

when they started talking about God.

347

00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:32,416

He’s not there to talk about that

God stuff.

348

00:18:32,416 --> 00:18:34,500

And, you know, but

349

00:18:34,500 --> 00:18:37,000

he was really brushing it off,

350

00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:37,791

unfortunately.

351

00:18:37,791 --> 00:18:41,958

And Ronnie wanted him to avoid the fate

of Pernell, like a jail or worse.

352

00:18:41,958 --> 00:18:43,000

You know?

353

00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,125

So they're pulling for him

and trying to pull.

354

00:18:46,125 --> 00:18:51,458

But the their force wasn't as strong as

355

00:18:51,500 --> 00:18:54,333

the other influences

of negative influences.

356

00:18:54,333 --> 00:18:55,916

O-Dog was totally unhinged.

357

00:18:55,916 --> 00:19:00,875

Like you said, he was showing off

the video and not a good influence at all.

358

00:19:00,958 --> 00:19:04,375

It was like,

I can cynicism to a certain extent.

359

00:19:04,375 --> 00:19:10,000

I mean, having witnessed

what he witnessed as a child

360

00:19:10,083 --> 00:19:13,750

with this with his parents

361

00:19:13,833 --> 00:19:15,041

father selling drugs

362

00:19:15,041 --> 00:19:18,958

and shooting somebody and kill him

right in the house, his mother

363

00:19:18,958 --> 00:19:23,041

being strung out on on heroin

and crack or whatever.

364

00:19:23,125 --> 00:19:24,583

So, I mean, I get the cynicism.

365

00:19:24,583 --> 00:19:27,291

Like I said, you know,

with the grandparents to talk about God?

366

00:19:27,291 --> 00:19:28,916

Okay, well, what happened with my parents?

367

00:19:28,916 --> 00:19:30,625

You know,

I kind of get where he's coming from

368

00:19:30,625 --> 00:19:34,583

to a certain extent,

but at the same time, you can't

369

00:19:34,666 --> 00:19:39,250

you can't go through life, you know,

focusing on the negative when you have

370

00:19:39,375 --> 00:19:42,875

all of these people around him

that are trying to pull for you.

371

00:19:42,958 --> 00:19:45,166

So, I mean,

372

00:19:45,166 --> 00:19:46,833

that’s why I say,

that's that's would be kind of hard.

373

00:19:46,833 --> 00:19:50,875

What I said earlier is maybe, you know,

hard for me to kind of empathize.

374

00:19:50,875 --> 00:19:56,625

When he got these people that are

trying to root for him you know, yeah.

375

00:19:56,708 --> 00:19:57,500

DynoWright, anything to

376

00:19:57,500 --> 00:20:01,291

add on the influences on Caine?

377

00:20:01,375 --> 00:20:03,000

You know, it takes a village.

378

00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,625

And if the village doesn't

have stable parents in the beginning,

379

00:20:06,708 --> 00:20:08,541

that's really it's really tough

to make it.

380

00:20:08,541 --> 00:20:12,750

And despite the best efforts

of the grandparents,

381

00:20:12,833 --> 00:20:14,791

Harold, for a few minutes

382

00:20:14,791 --> 00:20:18,125

before he got shot in the carjacking and

383

00:20:18,333 --> 00:20:22,666

and Sharif and Stacy

and Ronnie and Pernell,

384

00:20:22,750 --> 00:20:24,208

there's only so much they can do.

385

00:20:24,208 --> 00:20:26,875

And Caine makes

386

00:20:26,875 --> 00:20:28,500

made his decisions,

387

00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:31,958

despite what you know,

people were trying to help him

388

00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,291

were doing so it’s tough.

389

00:20:36,583 --> 00:20:39,833

What were the opportunities

that he had to escape his life of crime?

390

00:20:40,083 --> 00:20:43,583

BooGie, you talked about it, his friends

Stacy and Sharif were moving to Kansas

391

00:20:43,583 --> 00:20:46,583

and he wanted to come along.

392

00:20:46,791 --> 00:20:48,750

And what what were

393

00:20:48,750 --> 00:20:51,916

some of the other opportunities

he had to escape?

394

00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,000

You want to touch on that?

395

00:20:54,083 --> 00:20:55,250

I mean,

396

00:20:55,250 --> 00:20:58,750

even just the fact that I mean,

it was unfortunate

397

00:20:58,750 --> 00:21:02,083

that his cousin Harold was killed,

398

00:21:02,166 --> 00:21:06,875

but he was shot and he survived.

399

00:21:06,958 --> 00:21:09,958

You know,

you live through something like that.

400

00:21:10,083 --> 00:21:14,208

You know, it's that's a

that's a point where you could say, whoa,

401

00:21:14,291 --> 00:21:18,125

maybe I may just try and start

rethinking some things.

402

00:21:18,125 --> 00:21:18,750

Yeah.

403

00:21:18,750 --> 00:21:21,708

You know,

But you didn't rethink things at all.

404

00:21:21,708 --> 00:21:26,041

Like his immediate response

was to retaliate.

405

00:21:26,125 --> 00:21:27,166

And I get it.

406

00:21:27,166 --> 00:21:28,416

I mean, that’s your cousin, I get it.

407

00:21:28,416 --> 00:21:32,500

But at the same time, like,

you can't expect

408

00:21:32,583 --> 00:21:35,583

to go out and do something like that

and something good come about it because.

409

00:21:35,625 --> 00:21:38,333

Yeah, okay, you kill these guys.

410

00:21:38,333 --> 00:21:39,083

Now what next?

411

00:21:39,083 --> 00:21:42,083

Like, you could have gotten caught

in the process by the police

412

00:21:42,083 --> 00:21:43,916

and shot and killed

right there on the spot.

413

00:21:43,916 --> 00:21:46,916

Their friends could have came and saw it,

and they could have shot you on the spot.

414

00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,958

There's so many things

that could have gone wrong

415

00:21:49,958 --> 00:21:53,583

by jumping

to that jumping to those actions

416

00:21:53,666 --> 00:21:57,666

and he had a perfect opportunity

to completely avoid all of that.

417

00:21:57,708 --> 00:22:04,125

And he chose not to, you know, even

like I said before, with his grandfather

418

00:22:04,208 --> 00:22:07,000

trying to talk to him and O-Dog,

about the trouble they get into,

419

00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:08,750

because he he sees it like some of it

420

00:22:08,750 --> 00:22:13,166

he sees something he hears through hearsay

through the neighborhood,

421

00:22:13,250 --> 00:22:16,208

but he’s calling it to their attention

that I know what you guys are.

422

00:22:16,208 --> 00:22:18,000

some, I don't even know all of it,

423

00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,375

but I know what you guys are doing out

there is wrong.

424

00:22:21,458 --> 00:22:24,458

You kind of

might want to try to correct it.

425

00:22:24,625 --> 00:22:27,625

And they didn’t,

426

00:22:27,625 --> 00:22:30,583

you know,

even when they tried to, you know,

427

00:22:30,583 --> 00:22:34,833

they went to go steal a car and,

428

00:22:34,916 --> 00:22:37,750

you know, yeah, he he got his

429

00:22:37,750 --> 00:22:41,958

his sentence got reduced to attempted

joyriding instead of Grand Theft Auto.

430

00:22:42,041 --> 00:22:43,958

Okay. You got a reduction.

431

00:22:43,958 --> 00:22:46,416

Then his fingerprints

432

00:22:46,416 --> 00:22:49,333

matched the 40 ounce

that was dropped in the store.

433

00:22:49,333 --> 00:22:53,333

He got interrogated and got away with it.

434

00:22:53,416 --> 00:22:55,625

You know, they couldn't find anything

because they had no evidence.

435

00:22:55,625 --> 00:22:57,750

So he got off that. Here's another option.

436

00:22:57,750 --> 00:23:00,083

Okay? I got away. You know what?

437

00:23:00,083 --> 00:23:00,791

I'm clean.

438

00:23:00,791 --> 00:23:01,500

I’m out.

439

00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:04,500

I’m done. Nope! Keep going.

440

00:23:04,666 --> 00:23:09,500

You know, Sharif and Stacy, try and talk,

you know, in one ear and out the other?

441

00:23:09,583 --> 00:23:10,125

You know, Mr.

442

00:23:10,125 --> 00:23:14,125

Butler talking to him in one of the other,

you know,

443

00:23:14,208 --> 00:23:17,375

then he you know, they had the unfortunate

444

00:23:17,458 --> 00:23:19,833

scene where Caine and Sharif

445

00:23:19,833 --> 00:23:23,625

were brutally beaten by the police

officers.

446

00:23:23,708 --> 00:23:28,125

And, you know, nope, you know,

447

00:23:28,208 --> 00:23:29,458

and I think that might have that

448

00:23:29,458 --> 00:23:32,791

might have been somewhat

of a turning point because Ronnie actually

449

00:23:32,875 --> 00:23:35,458

put it in his head

to go with her to Atlanta.

450

00:23:35,458 --> 00:23:38,333

And then she asked him again

and he finally did accept.

451

00:23:38,333 --> 00:23:44,166

But after all of the the laundry list of

452

00:23:44,250 --> 00:23:46,916

things he's done and granted,

453

00:23:46,916 --> 00:23:49,583

it's a movie, so they only show certain

aspects of what happened.

454

00:23:49,583 --> 00:23:53,750

So there's probably a lot more that

he's done that that didn't make the film.

455

00:23:53,833 --> 00:23:56,833

Yeah, you know it’s

safe to make that assumption,

456

00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,166

you know, And it all caught up to him,

you know.

457

00:24:00,166 --> 00:24:03,166

When faced with the opportunity

to really change,

458

00:24:03,208 --> 00:24:05,416

he never takes the opportunity.

459

00:24:05,416 --> 00:24:07,875

Right?

460

00:24:07,875 --> 00:24:09,083

He makes really bad decisions.

461

00:24:09,083 --> 00:24:10,958

I mean, on the face of it.

462

00:24:10,958 --> 00:24:13,791

That's I guess that's the stubbornness

of being young and growing

463

00:24:13,791 --> 00:24:16,166

up, that environment,

not having that true. Exactly.

464

00:24:16,166 --> 00:24:18,416

Father figure or parent parental figure.

465

00:24:18,416 --> 00:24:20,666

His moral compass is broken.

466

00:24:20,666 --> 00:24:22,916

He never really had one. Yeah.

467

00:24:22,916 --> 00:24:28,291

Even though he, like you said,

he did have a a loving side to him.

468

00:24:28,375 --> 00:24:33,083

And distorted maybe. But loyalty.

469

00:24:33,166 --> 00:24:34,375

Yeah.

470

00:24:34,375 --> 00:24:37,500

It's it's

one of the great things about this movie.

471

00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:42,166

It's very, you know, morally complex. You

472

00:24:42,250 --> 00:24:44,875

right

That's why I find myself torn a little bit

473

00:24:44,875 --> 00:24:46,375

rooting for him versus

not rooting for him.

474

00:24:46,375 --> 00:24:48,458

It's like it's almost like

475

00:24:48,458 --> 00:24:52,791

someone's a dummy dummy, you know,

like, yeah, just get out of this.

476

00:24:52,791 --> 00:24:53,833

Like, you have an opening.

477

00:24:53,833 --> 00:24:55,666

You have an opening just like,

see the path.

478

00:24:55,666 --> 00:24:59,666

But there's there's something

keeping him from that.

479

00:24:59,666 --> 00:25:00,416

Yeah.

480

00:25:00,416 --> 00:25:03,541

Like, even, like,

you know, when he went to go see Pernell.

481

00:25:03,541 --> 00:25:04,583

Pernell even knew.

482

00:25:04,583 --> 00:25:06,833

Pernell was like listen man, just go.

483

00:25:06,833 --> 00:25:08,250

Go with them.

484

00:25:08,250 --> 00:25:10,541

Look out for my son.

485

00:25:10,541 --> 00:25:12,833

You know, be there for my son.

486

00:25:12,833 --> 00:25:14,791

Tell him that.

487

00:25:14,791 --> 00:25:17,916

Show him

that what we were doing was wrong.

488

00:25:17,958 --> 00:25:19,500

It was B.S., right?

489

00:25:19,500 --> 00:25:21,416

Yeah. Show him a better way.

490

00:25:21,416 --> 00:25:23,666

I think that might have probably

been icing on the cake right there.

491

00:25:23,666 --> 00:25:27,291

That kind of convinced him

because I think he was you know, I think

492

00:25:27,375 --> 00:25:30,291

I think there's a there's a possibility

that even that he told Ronnie he wanted

493

00:25:30,291 --> 00:25:32,458

he would do it, that he would leave.

494

00:25:32,458 --> 00:25:36,708

I think there was still a possibility

that he was not going to do it

495

00:25:36,791 --> 00:25:38,750

just based on his past actions.

496

00:25:38,750 --> 00:25:40,041

Yep. Yeah.

497

00:25:40,041 --> 00:25:41,875

I think Pernell

was probably the icing on it

498

00:25:41,875 --> 00:25:47,041

when Pernell put it to him straight

and he as much as he admired Pernell,

499

00:25:47,125 --> 00:25:50,375

I think that was the icing right

there, coming from somebody who lived that

500

00:25:50,375 --> 00:25:52,625

lifestyle, who got caught up.

501

00:25:52,708 --> 00:25:55,666

He survived, but he got caught up

502

00:25:55,666 --> 00:25:58,666

and he's able to tell you, Listen,

don't do what I did.

503

00:25:58,708 --> 00:26:00,875

Get out.

504

00:26:00,875 --> 00:26:06,666

Take it from someone

who had the bad outcome.

505

00:26:06,750 --> 00:26:07,250

I think it was cool.

506

00:26:07,250 --> 00:26:10,750

And well, Pernell kind of gave

507

00:26:10,791 --> 00:26:14,291

Caine the blessing to, you know,

508

00:26:14,375 --> 00:26:16,250

become,

509

00:26:16,250 --> 00:26:20,750

I guess, boyfriend girlfriend, you know,

have a relationship with with Ronnie.

510

00:26:20,833 --> 00:26:22,250

It's like, I know she's fond of you.

511

00:26:22,250 --> 00:26:27,416

Like, I'm not around and, yeah,

just take care of my son.

512

00:26:27,500 --> 00:26:28,458

Like you said.

513

00:26:28,458 --> 00:26:29,875

That was very big of him.

514

00:26:29,875 --> 00:26:32,875

And that was that was big of him.

515

00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:33,500

Yeah.

516

00:26:35,375 --> 00:26:36,541

So let's talk

517

00:26:36,541 --> 00:26:40,416

about Menace

II Society versus Boyz N the Hood.

518

00:26:40,500 --> 00:26:44,375

I mean, they, they get compared

and contrasted quite a bit

519

00:26:44,458 --> 00:26:50,041

in in retrospect,

again, in terms of the timeline.

520

00:26:50,125 --> 00:26:50,666

Boyz N the Hood

521

00:26:50,666 --> 00:26:54,666

came out in 1991, Menace

II Society in 1993.

522

00:26:54,750 --> 00:26:57,958

I'll kick it off since I haven't started

one of these discussions.

523

00:26:57,958 --> 00:27:03,083

But yeah, in my opinion,

I thought that Boyz N the Hood was a more

524

00:27:03,083 --> 00:27:08,125

well-crafted story with more thoughtful

character development.

525

00:27:08,208 --> 00:27:10,791

Menace II Society was much more raw,

526

00:27:10,791 --> 00:27:13,500

and the narration through Caine

I really like

527

00:27:13,500 --> 00:27:17,250

he was narrating his own story,

kind of gave the viewer firsthand account

528

00:27:17,250 --> 00:27:21,250

of his life as a youngster in the hood.

529

00:27:21,291 --> 00:27:23,833

Obviously,

you have some folks that had the better

530

00:27:23,833 --> 00:27:26,833

support system in Boyz N

the Hood, like Tre Styles,

531

00:27:26,833 --> 00:27:30,166

and like I said, the relationship

between he, him, Doughboy

532

00:27:30,166 --> 00:27:32,000

and Kenny was more well, well developed,

533

00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,916

not so much with Caine and O-Dog,

You don't really see that relationship.

534

00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,375

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

535

00:27:37,375 --> 00:27:41,041

So that's kind of how

I would compare it on the surface.

536

00:27:41,125 --> 00:27:43,583

Do you want to chime

in some more DynoWright your thoughts?

537

00:27:43,583 --> 00:27:44,333

Yeah, I agree with you.

538

00:27:44,333 --> 00:27:48,208

I think there was more character

development in the in the other

539

00:27:48,333 --> 00:27:51,458

in Boyz N the Hood.

540

00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:53,583

They were really like

541

00:27:53,583 --> 00:27:57,541

two bookends.

542

00:27:57,625 --> 00:28:00,583

You know, Chuck D once said that

543

00:28:00,583 --> 00:28:03,583

rap music is the Black people’s CNN.

544

00:28:03,583 --> 00:28:07,500

And, you know, this was sort of like MTV.

545

00:28:07,541 --> 00:28:11,833

Now it shows you what the life was like

in some of these places.

546

00:28:11,916 --> 00:28:13,833

And so

547

00:28:13,833 --> 00:28:16,833

the comparisons

there are very similar in that

548

00:28:16,916 --> 00:28:19,916

the depictions of the life

were unflinching.

549

00:28:20,083 --> 00:28:23,416

Maybe maybe Menace

II Society was a little more

550

00:28:23,416 --> 00:28:26,625

graphic and violent. But,

551

00:28:26,708 --> 00:28:28,791

you know, you got the same effect

552

00:28:28,791 --> 00:28:31,791

and you saw that kind of the same stuff.

553

00:28:31,791 --> 00:28:32,666

I think you're right.

554

00:28:32,666 --> 00:28:37,791

I think there was a little more,

I guess, exploration of

555

00:28:37,875 --> 00:28:40,541

getting out in in Boyz N the Hood.

556

00:28:40,541 --> 00:28:42,083

Maybe

557

00:28:42,083 --> 00:28:44,125

it's been a while since we watched it,

558

00:28:44,125 --> 00:28:47,125

but it's really just Caine

trying to get out.

559

00:28:47,125 --> 00:28:51,250

But in the other in Boyz n the Hood,

I think they were all sort of figuring out

560

00:28:51,250 --> 00:28:54,208

what they were trying to do next.

561

00:28:54,291 --> 00:28:54,666

Right?

562

00:28:54,666 --> 00:28:58,208

You get to see the trajectory

of each of them

563

00:28:58,250 --> 00:28:59,541

within the hood.

564

00:28:59,541 --> 00:28:59,875

Yeah.

565

00:28:59,875 --> 00:29:03,083

And trying to avoid the pitfalls

of the gangs, your neighborhood.

566

00:29:03,083 --> 00:29:07,333

And there is that glimmer of hope

because there's that possibility of the

567

00:29:07,416 --> 00:29:09,291

football scholarship.

There's different avenues.

568

00:29:09,291 --> 00:29:10,916

There doesn't really seem to be a light

569

00:29:10,916 --> 00:29:13,250

at the end of the tunnel for Caine,

even though he's offered these ones.

570

00:29:13,250 --> 00:29:16,166

But nothing really was like

571

00:29:16,166 --> 00:29:17,916

no, nothing stuck with him, obviously.

572

00:29:17,916 --> 00:29:19,500

And as we said.

573

00:29:19,500 --> 00:29:20,541

No, I think.

574

00:29:20,541 --> 00:29:23,541

Yeah, Sorry to finish that point.

Go ahead.

575

00:29:23,708 --> 00:29:24,375

Yeah.

576

00:29:24,375 --> 00:29:27,250

That the way to get out

there were there were more ways

577

00:29:27,250 --> 00:29:30,250

to get out shown in Boyz N the Hood and

578

00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:34,833

Menace II Society was like

the only way out is in a pine box.

579

00:29:34,916 --> 00:29:35,541

Unfortunately.

580

00:29:35,541 --> 00:29:37,541

Right.

581

00:29:37,541 --> 00:29:38,958

BooGie, what are your thoughts

582

00:29:38,958 --> 00:29:43,041

about comparing Menace

II Society with Boyz N the Hood as well?

583

00:29:43,125 --> 00:29:46,000

No, I think I think you both summed it up

pretty well.

584

00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:47,541

I think

585

00:29:47,541 --> 00:29:51,250

I mean, they both do take place in the

same area, South Central Los Angeles.

586

00:29:51,250 --> 00:29:55,666

So and they do both to depicted

587

00:29:55,750 --> 00:30:00,166

the pitfalls of that area

in that time period.

588

00:30:00,250 --> 00:30:04,083

I think you said

the storytelling is very different.

589

00:30:04,166 --> 00:30:08,583

You you have first person

narration and menace

590

00:30:08,583 --> 00:30:13,166

and we have the kind of looking

from the outside in in Boyz N the Hood.

591

00:30:13,166 --> 00:30:16,958

But I do like the

the character development

592

00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,625

that we did see him in Boyz n the Hood,

and that kind of made you

593

00:30:21,708 --> 00:30:24,708

have a more of an attachment

to those characters.

594

00:30:24,916 --> 00:30:27,916

Yeah, because we saw them as kids

and we saw the two,

595

00:30:28,041 --> 00:30:31,958

the bond

that they shared from early on growing up,

596

00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:32,916

even though we didn't see

597

00:30:32,916 --> 00:30:36,750

every aspect of them growing up,

we saw them as it's kind of like

598

00:30:36,833 --> 00:30:41,916

we kind of knew what they recover from

and how they became so tight

599

00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:47,208

and we didn't really see

that in Menace but

600

00:30:47,250 --> 00:30:48,583

I think we did

601

00:30:48,583 --> 00:30:52,041

mention, though,

there was more than one avenue to get out.

602

00:30:52,166 --> 00:30:55,375

So you kind of rooting

for those characters, all three of them.

603

00:30:55,458 --> 00:30:59,916

The main character, you know, Doughboy,

604

00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,375

Ricky and and Tre,

605

00:31:02,375 --> 00:31:06,083

for all three of them to make it because

you kind of got a bit of an attachment.

606

00:31:06,083 --> 00:31:09,333

You saw that there were

there was a bond between them.

607

00:31:09,333 --> 00:31:13,083

So you didn't want to see any one of them

fail.

608

00:31:13,166 --> 00:31:16,916

With Menace, I mean, yeah,

609

00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,958

we were rooting for Caine, but, you know,

610

00:31:21,041 --> 00:31:22,916

it was almost a lost cause.

611

00:31:22,916 --> 00:31:25,916

Yeah, but, you know,

612

00:31:25,958 --> 00:31:29,083

you don't want to

you don't want him to infect any area

613

00:31:29,125 --> 00:31:31,125

you wanted to see where you at

614

00:31:31,125 --> 00:31:35,541

or get put down to get locked up

or something like, what's going on Guy.

615

00:31:35,625 --> 00:31:41,958

But, but now I think that you were both

summed it up pretty well though.

616

00:31:42,041 --> 00:31:44,166

And yeah, they definitely are

617

00:31:44,166 --> 00:31:47,958

like you said, done right there bookends

I think to that to that

618

00:31:47,958 --> 00:31:51,916

area and definitely,

619

00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,916

you know the visuals to

620

00:31:54,916 --> 00:31:58,333

you know, what's going on at that time

621

00:31:58,416 --> 00:32:00,333

period. And

622

00:32:00,333 --> 00:32:04,750

in L.A., South Central, South Central L.A.

623

00:32:04,833 --> 00:32:07,041

Early nineties tensions were high

624

00:32:07,041 --> 00:32:12,333

with the Rodney King incident

and so very pregnant at the time.

625

00:32:12,416 --> 00:32:15,750

Man, I have a mental block

where I always call Ricky Kenny.

626

00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:19,000

And if you caught that

first for some reason, he must've

627

00:32:19,041 --> 00:32:19,666

lost your mind.

628

00:32:19,666 --> 00:32:20,458

I may have done that.

629

00:32:20,458 --> 00:32:25,291

We did the other record,

like for some reason in my head he's like,

630

00:32:25,375 --> 00:32:28,458

he's a Kenny where

where the iconic scene is like Ricky.

631

00:32:28,458 --> 00:32:29,000

And I like.

632

00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,916

Like why you might not remember the name.

633

00:32:30,916 --> 00:32:32,416

I don't know why.

634

00:32:32,416 --> 00:32:33,541

It just. It's just.

635

00:32:33,541 --> 00:32:35,416

It's just some odd.

636

00:32:35,416 --> 00:32:37,791

Kenny

637

00:32:37,791 --> 00:32:38,875

you watch too much South Park.

638

00:32:38,875 --> 00:32:40,041

Yeah.

639

00:32:40,041 --> 00:32:42,833

Oh my God they killled Kenny.

640

00:32:42,833 --> 00:32:44,833

Bastards.

641

00:32:44,833 --> 00:32:47,583

Jeez, but yeah

642

00:32:47,583 --> 00:32:48,000

Oh man.

643

00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,916

Sorry about that.

644

00:32:49,916 --> 00:32:51,916

Rest in peace, Ricky.

645

00:32:51,916 --> 00:32:56,541

But the nice tie between the two movies

I just found out was that Ice Cube was

646

00:32:56,541 --> 00:33:00,750

offered the role of O-Dog, turned it down

and regretted it ever since.

647

00:33:00,750 --> 00:33:03,208

So there you go.

648

00:33:03,208 --> 00:33:05,541

Imagine. Wow.

649

00:33:05,541 --> 00:33:06,875

Yeah.

650

00:33:06,875 --> 00:33:10,250

Ice Cube as O-Dog, goodness gracious.

651

00:33:10,250 --> 00:33:13,000

That wasn't with a character. Yeah.

652

00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,541

This whole different movie of Ice

Cube was the was O-Dog.

653

00:33:16,541 --> 00:33:18,000

Because

654

00:33:18,083 --> 00:33:18,500

I feel

655

00:33:18,500 --> 00:33:21,625

like in Boyz N the Hood, Doughboy’s

really charismatic.

656

00:33:21,625 --> 00:33:25,625

And like you, I was really rooting for

for Doughboy to survive the movie.

657

00:33:25,708 --> 00:33:26,041

Yeah.

658

00:33:26,041 --> 00:33:28,500

And yeah, I think if he gave

659

00:33:28,500 --> 00:33:32,500

that humanness to O-Dog,

I think they'd be a different movie.

660

00:33:32,583 --> 00:33:34,041

And maybe

661

00:33:34,041 --> 00:33:38,208

the whole opening scene with the in

the convenience store is a lot different.

662

00:33:38,208 --> 00:33:40,291

And so

663

00:33:40,291 --> 00:33:42,416

a very interesting thought exercise

664

00:33:42,416 --> 00:33:46,208

is to redo

this movie with Ice Cube is O-Dog.

665

00:33:46,291 --> 00:33:47,000

Yeah, for sure.

666

00:33:48,250 --> 00:33:52,541

But another fact,

we mentioned this in that Dear Mama,

667

00:33:52,625 --> 00:33:58,208

Tupac legendarily was originally cast

to play Sharif, but he was fired

668

00:33:58,208 --> 00:34:01,458

and that led to the physical fistfight

or physical fight.

669

00:34:01,541 --> 00:34:05,125

And it was a one sided fight

probably, or attack on Allen Hughes.

670

00:34:05,333 --> 00:34:08,333

And Tupac was charged

with assault and battery.

671

00:34:08,458 --> 00:34:10,916

That was mentioned by Allen Hughes,

672

00:34:10,916 --> 00:34:15,375

who did the documentary

series with Afeni Shakur.

673

00:34:15,458 --> 00:34:17,875

So Tupac could have

674

00:34:17,875 --> 00:34:21,125

played in this movie as well.

675

00:34:21,208 --> 00:34:25,625

Yeah, that'd be crazy to have Tupac

and and Ice Cube in the movie.

676

00:34:25,625 --> 00:34:26,708

Wow. Yeah.

677

00:34:26,708 --> 00:34:27,583

Can you imagine?

678

00:34:27,583 --> 00:34:30,375

We have MC Eiht playing A-Wax.

679

00:34:30,375 --> 00:34:31,125

Yeah.

680

00:34:31,125 --> 00:34:33,250

Too $hort. Yeah.

681

00:34:33,250 --> 00:34:38,250

And even Yo-Yo was was at the party,

682

00:34:38,333 --> 00:34:42,750

the going away party at the end where

683

00:34:42,833 --> 00:34:45,333

Caine got tired of

684

00:34:45,333 --> 00:34:48,458

watching advances of what’s his name?

685

00:34:48,458 --> 00:34:50,875

his name? Chauncey.

686

00:34:50,875 --> 00:34:52,208

Chauncey. Yes.

687

00:34:52,208 --> 00:34:57,083

Got tired of Chauncey's advances on Ronnie

and decided to pistol whip him.

688

00:34:57,166 --> 00:34:59,916

Yeah, like.

689

00:34:59,916 --> 00:35:00,541

That's you boy.

690

00:35:00,541 --> 00:35:01,833

How you gonna pistol whip your boy?

691

00:35:01,833 --> 00:35:05,416

Like you could have just pulled him aside

and said, yo chill.

692

00:35:05,500 --> 00:35:09,666

Yeah, Caine had no chill

by the end of the movie.

693

00:35:09,750 --> 00:35:12,416

But you know the crazy thing about it

is that

694

00:35:12,416 --> 00:35:17,458

even if the end didn't play out

the way it did, the circle was closing in

695

00:35:17,458 --> 00:35:20,666

on both O-Dog and Caine because

696

00:35:20,750 --> 00:35:24,875

Chauncey

decided to take that infamous tape

697

00:35:24,958 --> 00:35:26,916

and send it to the authorities.

698

00:35:26,916 --> 00:35:29,916

Yeah,

699

00:35:29,958 --> 00:35:30,625

it's like

700

00:35:30,625 --> 00:35:34,166

he decided, you know,

his retaliation was much smarter.

701

00:35:34,250 --> 00:35:36,000

He said, You know what?

702

00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,000

Okay, I'm not going to shoot him.

703

00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:42,291

I'm going to get back at him,

but I'm gonna do it the smart way.

704

00:35:43,750 --> 00:35:44,875

And I kept looking at Mr.

705

00:35:44,875 --> 00:35:47,333

Butler, Sharif's dad, and I'm like,

Where do I know him from?

706

00:35:47,333 --> 00:35:48,250

Where do I know him

from? Charles S. Dutton.

707

00:35:48,250 --> 00:35:50,333

You know Charles S. Dutton.

708

00:35:50,333 --> 00:35:52,833

Roc. The TV show Roc,

which was on for several years.

709

00:35:52,833 --> 00:35:54,958

Yeah. I'm like,

I know that guy that smile.

710

00:35:54,958 --> 00:35:56,541

Like, I know that guy.

711

00:35:56,541 --> 00:35:59,666

And I couldn't place it,

like during the movie itself

712

00:35:59,666 --> 00:36:02,666

because I hadn't seen Roc in years

713

00:36:02,750 --> 00:36:07,625

but he’s very recognizable.

714

00:36:07,708 --> 00:36:08,541

Yeah, for sure.

715

00:36:08,541 --> 00:36:11,083

Yeah. Charles S. Dutton.

716

00:36:11,083 --> 00:36:11,833

Yeah. Yeah.

717

00:36:11,833 --> 00:36:14,791

Both of these films

had some really terrific actors.

718

00:36:14,875 --> 00:36:17,041

Really?

719

00:36:17,041 --> 00:36:19,500

Just think of Tupac as Sharif

in this movie.

720

00:36:19,500 --> 00:36:22,500

I mean,

we saw how much he chewed up scenes

721

00:36:22,500 --> 00:36:25,708

in Juice and Above the Rim

and and those movies.

722

00:36:25,708 --> 00:36:29,041

And imagine what this movie

be like with Tupac

723

00:36:29,041 --> 00:36:32,250

in that role, which, I mean, Sharif,

724

00:36:32,333 --> 00:36:34,625

not a big role,

725

00:36:34,625 --> 00:36:37,916

but man, Tupac would probably make it

a big role.

726

00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:38,750

Right?

727

00:36:38,750 --> 00:36:41,666

Yeah, So many so many big names here.

728

00:36:41,666 --> 00:36:46,625

Even even Glenn Plummer,

who played Pernell he's in another movie,

729

00:36:46,708 --> 00:36:49,083

ironically, titled South Central.

730

00:36:49,083 --> 00:36:50,750

Oh yeah, Yeah.

731

00:36:50,750 --> 00:36:51,416

Good movie.

732

00:36:51,416 --> 00:36:52,375

Very good movie.

733

00:36:52,375 --> 00:36:55,666

Oh did y’all see Anthony Johnson?

734

00:36:55,750 --> 00:36:56,500

Wait.

735

00:36:56,500 --> 00:36:58,791

I saw him in the credits, but I couldn’t.

736

00:36:58,791 --> 00:37:00,958

Okay, I’ll back it up.

737

00:37:00,958 --> 00:37:04,875

So in the beginning, in the beginning

when Tat was

738

00:37:05,041 --> 00:37:07,958

they were playing cards at the table

739

00:37:07,958 --> 00:37:10,708

when Tat gets up to shoot the guy,

740

00:37:10,708 --> 00:37:17,750

the guy with the with the with the fedora

on that was Anthony Johnson.

741

00:37:17,833 --> 00:37:20,250

You know

what's funny is that all of my times

742

00:37:20,250 --> 00:37:24,291

of watching the movie,

I didn't pick up on it until that time.

743

00:37:24,291 --> 00:37:26,083

I watched

I watched it. I'm sitting watching.

744

00:37:26,083 --> 00:37:29,125

I'm like, wait a minute

and I go to the credits, like,

745

00:37:29,125 --> 00:37:33,250

wait a minute, I thought the wait a minute

I looked it up like, that is him,

746

00:37:33,333 --> 00:37:34,416

because he wasn't being funny.

747

00:37:34,416 --> 00:37:39,500

He was just he was kind of in

a serious role, even it was brief cameo.

748

00:37:39,500 --> 00:37:41,416

But yeah that was Anthony Johnson.

749

00:37:41,416 --> 00:37:42,750

Bill Duke is in this.

750

00:37:42,750 --> 00:37:45,166

Bill Duke is a phenomenal actor.

751

00:37:45,166 --> 00:37:48,541

Khandi Alexander's in this.

752

00:37:48,625 --> 00:37:49,708

Clifton Powell.

753

00:37:49,708 --> 00:37:52,375

Clifton Powell’s in this. Yep.

754

00:37:52,375 --> 00:37:56,500

He. I was just looking at him, he's

been in a lot of stuff Clifton Powell.

755

00:37:56,541 --> 00:37:58,708

Yeah. Dead Presidents.

756

00:37:58,708 --> 00:38:01,791

Friday After Next.

757

00:38:01,875 --> 00:38:02,958

Rush Hour.

758

00:38:02,958 --> 00:38:05,541

He's still still doing things this year.

759

00:38:05,541 --> 00:38:06,416

Great cast.

760

00:38:06,416 --> 00:38:10,041

Yeah What about the soundtrack?

761

00:38:10,125 --> 00:38:12,458

Had some

762

00:38:12,458 --> 00:38:15,875

obviously MC Eiht’s on there.

763

00:38:15,958 --> 00:38:18,000

Too $hort, Too $hort.

764

00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:19,541

Pete Rock and CL Smooth.

765

00:38:19,541 --> 00:38:22,166

Brand Nubian. Boogie Down Productions.

I love the soundtrack.

766

00:38:22,166 --> 00:38:25,000

I listened to the soundtrack.

I had the CD.

767

00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:26,875

Okay. And I listened to it.

768

00:38:26,875 --> 00:38:32,000

I mean, almost every day,

the summer of 94.

769

00:38:32,083 --> 00:38:33,291

And I had that CD

770

00:38:33,291 --> 00:38:36,500

I got to Rider

and somebody stole it out of my room.

771

00:38:36,583 --> 00:38:38,458

I went to play it one time.

772

00:38:38,458 --> 00:38:41,750

I was like, Where’s my CD at?

773

00:38:41,833 --> 00:38:42,916

How ironic.

774

00:38:42,916 --> 00:38:44,875

They left the case.

775

00:38:44,875 --> 00:38:45,208

They left the case!

776

00:38:45,208 --> 00:38:50,666

Oh man, that's that's cold hearted.

777

00:38:50,750 --> 00:38:52,500

I know we mentioned this one

when we were talking

778

00:38:52,500 --> 00:38:55,625

about the best soundtracks

with DJ ARM and Cap Cee.

779

00:38:55,791 --> 00:38:58,375

I don't know where it ranked,

but it was up there. It was up there.

780

00:38:58,375 --> 00:39:02,875

And this was one my picks,

the soundtrack was one of my picks. You

781

00:39:02,958 --> 00:39:04,166

go back and listen to that episode.

782

00:39:04,166 --> 00:39:07,166

If you're into hip hop music

783

00:39:07,333 --> 00:39:09,625

and soundtracks,

784

00:39:09,625 --> 00:39:12,375

we list out a whole bunch on an episode.

785

00:39:12,375 --> 00:39:14,208

Yeah, I enjoyed the music.

786

00:39:14,208 --> 00:39:17,333

No one song really stood out to me

like, this track aww.

787

00:39:17,333 --> 00:39:21,458

But I was I was head bobbing to

788

00:39:21,541 --> 00:39:23,333

most of the songs that came on.

789

00:39:25,041 --> 00:39:29,666

One other comment I and I had it was like,

I think like the action, the conclusion

790

00:39:29,666 --> 00:39:33,750

kind of all happened pretty fast,

like the scene where it was like,

791

00:39:33,833 --> 00:39:37,583

Ilena called Caine tells him

she's pregnant and like, he denies it.

792

00:39:37,583 --> 00:39:42,625

And then like the scene with Chauncey

and then the retaila-, the brutal

793

00:39:42,708 --> 00:39:45,333

stomping of Ilena’s cousin, like,

I think they, like,

794

00:39:45,333 --> 00:39:47,125

brought it to a conclusion pretty quickly.

795

00:39:47,125 --> 00:39:48,375

And I was like, wow.

796

00:39:48,375 --> 00:39:50,666

My head was kind of spinning a little bit

at the end.

797

00:39:50,666 --> 00:39:51,375

Yeah.

798

00:39:51,375 --> 00:39:53,541

I don't know

if you guys had the same feeling.

799

00:39:53,541 --> 00:39:54,625

You know?

800

00:39:54,625 --> 00:39:55,375

Yeah, it did.

801

00:39:55,375 --> 00:39:58,375

You know, the crazy

and crazy thing about it is that

802

00:39:58,375 --> 00:40:01,666

that's just

how quickly things can get out of hand.

803

00:40:01,708 --> 00:40:02,583

Unraveled that quick.

804

00:40:02,583 --> 00:40:03,208

Yeah.

805

00:40:03,208 --> 00:40:08,875

You know, if everybody moves off of

impulses, you go from 0 to 100 real quick.

806

00:40:08,958 --> 00:40:12,666

Yeah. Yeah. Well,

807

00:40:12,750 --> 00:40:14,208

yeah, I feel like Boyz N the Hood

808

00:40:14,208 --> 00:40:18,416

also, that climax scene

sort of took longer to play out.

809

00:40:18,416 --> 00:40:24,333

And this one was like,

boom, drive by, it's over.

810

00:40:24,416 --> 00:40:26,250

Right?

811

00:40:26,250 --> 00:40:30,125

And like, those guys weren't

even that scene with that whole scene,

812

00:40:30,208 --> 00:40:34,250

it brought those guys into the fold who

happened like much earlier in the movie.

813

00:40:34,250 --> 00:40:36,125

Like,

814

00:40:36,125 --> 00:40:37,708

it wasn't even interesting, it’s

like oh yeah.

815

00:40:37,708 --> 00:40:38,625

Remember that guy right there?

816

00:40:38,625 --> 00:40:41,833

Yeah, that's him. Yeah.

817

00:40:41,916 --> 00:40:43,666

You hadn't seen them, like, for, like,

818

00:40:43,666 --> 00:40:47,041

good, like, you know, half an hour

or something like that.

819

00:40:47,125 --> 00:40:48,500

Yeah.

820

00:40:48,500 --> 00:40:50,750

And I really felt bad for Sharif.

821

00:40:50,750 --> 00:40:51,625

Yeah.

822

00:40:51,625 --> 00:40:54,958

Him getting killed in a drive

by was like, man.

823

00:40:54,958 --> 00:40:58,541

Yeah. That was really sad for me.

824

00:40:58,625 --> 00:40:59,666

Yeah, that was.

825

00:40:59,666 --> 00:41:00,833

That was extremely sad

826

00:41:00,833 --> 00:41:05,541

because he was really trying to get out

and he was, he was friends with them.

827

00:41:05,541 --> 00:41:09,125

But you, you could clearly see

that his head was in another place.

828

00:41:09,125 --> 00:41:09,500

Yeah.

829

00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:12,666

He, he, he was supposed to be doing

different things.

830

00:41:12,750 --> 00:41:16,083

Yeah. Mr. Butler having to bury him.

831

00:41:16,166 --> 00:41:19,166

He was mature behind beyond his years.

832

00:41:19,208 --> 00:41:20,291

Yeah.

833

00:41:20,291 --> 00:41:22,708

And on a higher plane.

834

00:41:22,708 --> 00:41:24,750

I still can't get over

the fact that the Hughes brothers

835

00:41:24,750 --> 00:41:26,291

were 20 years old when they made the film.

836

00:41:26,291 --> 00:41:31,500

And the final, final,

very final scene was powerful.

837

00:41:31,583 --> 00:41:34,791

Like, as Caine is slowly,

838

00:41:34,875 --> 00:41:38,250

you know, dying from his wounds

and like, he's recalling his grandfather,

839

00:41:38,250 --> 00:41:41,416

asking him if he cares

whether he lives or dies,

840

00:41:41,416 --> 00:41:44,333

because that was one of those quotes,

like, do you care if you live or die?

841

00:41:44,333 --> 00:41:48,166

And it's almost like he comes

to that realization too late that,

842

00:41:48,291 --> 00:41:52,041

yeah,

I kind of do, but it's too late. Like

843

00:41:52,125 --> 00:41:53,166

he had no care for that.

844

00:41:53,166 --> 00:41:57,458

Like he was thought

he either thought he was invincible or

845

00:41:57,541 --> 00:42:01,333

he just hid his

feelings because he had that

846

00:42:01,416 --> 00:42:03,208

hard exterior and that hard

847

00:42:03,208 --> 00:42:07,333

upbringing where he was desensitized

848

00:42:07,416 --> 00:42:12,791

to everything but deep down,

he he had a lot to live for.

849

00:42:12,875 --> 00:42:15,291

You know, he could have start a new life

850

00:42:15,291 --> 00:42:19,166

with Ronnie in Atlanta,

you know, help raise Anthony

851

00:42:19,250 --> 00:42:20,166

and reform himself.

852

00:42:20,166 --> 00:42:21,625

But he didn’t

853

00:42:21,625 --> 00:42:24,041

really get an opportunity.

854

00:42:24,041 --> 00:42:28,250

On the flip side, though,

after I watched that whole scene,

855

00:42:28,333 --> 00:42:31,833

first thing that popped into my head

was the Don't Be a Menace

856

00:42:31,833 --> 00:42:35,083

to South Central While Drinking Your Juice

in the Hood version of it.

857

00:42:35,166 --> 00:42:41,333

You know, And.

858

00:42:41,416 --> 00:42:45,333

I almost feel like I have to go back

and rewatch that one again.

859

00:42:45,416 --> 00:42:47,083

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

860

00:42:47,083 --> 00:42:48,833

How everything is exactly parodied.

861

00:42:48,833 --> 00:42:51,958

You definitely have rewatch that movie.

862

00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:53,083

Right.

863

00:42:53,083 --> 00:42:55,833

It'll make it so much funny, somewhat

funnier because.

864

00:42:55,833 --> 00:42:57,458

Now you see all the references.

865

00:42:57,458 --> 00:42:59,666

All the references. Yeah. Yeah.

866

00:42:59,666 --> 00:43:04,291

While it’s

fresh in my head. Is it. Because it's.

867

00:43:04,375 --> 00:43:05,750

Yeah, I mean, it's clear.

868

00:43:05,750 --> 00:43:08,125

Clear references to Boyz N the Hood. Yeah.

869

00:43:08,125 --> 00:43:09,833

Throughout the whole movie.

870

00:43:09,833 --> 00:43:12,833

What?

871

00:43:13,041 --> 00:43:13,250

Yeah.

872

00:43:13,250 --> 00:43:16,916

Like we said, they, they really the Wayans

brothers did their homework on that.

873

00:43:16,916 --> 00:43:22,541

Like they really, like analyze

every scene and like, Yeah, yeah.

874

00:43:22,666 --> 00:43:26,541

Some of it's word for word or parody.

875

00:43:26,666 --> 00:43:29,666

Each word is parody or like each scene

876

00:43:29,708 --> 00:43:32,250

to the T is like, wow.

877

00:43:32,250 --> 00:43:34,833

Yeah, they really. Ilena’s

cousin is in it.

878

00:43:34,833 --> 00:43:38,250

That's the guy. The same guy.

879

00:43:38,333 --> 00:43:41,750

Samuel Monroe, Junior same guy.

880

00:43:41,750 --> 00:43:42,583

That’s classic.

881

00:43:42,583 --> 00:43:48,541

Same scenario.

882

00:43:48,625 --> 00:43:51,125

Yeah.

883

00:43:51,125 --> 00:43:52,791

Like, wow.

884

00:43:52,791 --> 00:43:54,208

Wow.

885

00:44:02,875 --> 00:44:04,875

BooGie,

what do you say on Menace II Society?

886

00:44:04,875 --> 00:44:06,500

Bring that funky flick back.

887

00:44:06,500 --> 00:44:11,250

Bring that funky flick back

or leave it in the vault.

888

00:44:11,333 --> 00:44:13,666

For it’s cultural relevancy.

889

00:44:13,666 --> 00:44:19,833

It's very raw,

but yeah, bring that funky flick back.

890

00:44:19,916 --> 00:44:22,041

Okay, DynoWright?

891

00:44:22,041 --> 00:44:23,875

I think this movie still resonates,

892

00:44:23,875 --> 00:44:28,375

so I will bring this funky flick back.

893

00:44:28,458 --> 00:44:31,333

And I am of the same vein.

894

00:44:31,333 --> 00:44:34,333

I will bring this funky flick back.

895

00:44:34,333 --> 00:44:37,250

Like I said, we talk about like,

I like Boyz N the Hood better overall.

896

00:44:37,250 --> 00:44:38,250

Like Boyz N the Hood is one

897

00:44:38,250 --> 00:44:42,291

that I would rewatch more willingly,

like multiple times.

898

00:44:42,375 --> 00:44:46,958

For me,

this one's very brutal and raw and like,

899

00:44:47,041 --> 00:44:50,750

really well-done and super relevant

900

00:44:50,833 --> 00:44:53,833

and strong messages,

901

00:44:54,083 --> 00:44:58,333

but like, it's one that I wouldn't watch

maybe multiple times

902

00:44:58,416 --> 00:45:00,958

or like kind of

just leave it on in the background.

903

00:45:00,958 --> 00:45:02,333

It's uncomfortable.

904

00:45:02,333 --> 00:45:02,791

Yeah, right.

905

00:45:02,791 --> 00:45:04,666

That's probably why you're comfortable.

906

00:45:04,666 --> 00:45:06,750

Really uncomfortable.

907

00:45:06,750 --> 00:45:07,083

Like that.

908

00:45:07,083 --> 00:45:11,083

More of a comedies, comedy guy

or like, stuff like that.

909

00:45:11,083 --> 00:45:13,541

But yeah, that's, that's kind of why.

910

00:45:13,541 --> 00:45:18,083

But that was again,

that was the Hughes Brothers’ plan.

911

00:45:18,208 --> 00:45:20,250

Like they accomplished

what they set out to do.

912

00:45:20,250 --> 00:45:21,666

Shock value.

913

00:45:21,666 --> 00:45:23,208

1993. Wow.

914

00:45:23,208 --> 00:45:26,916

I mean, 30 years ago.

915

00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:28,500

Yeah.

916

00:45:28,500 --> 00:45:29,958

And you’re putting it out there.

917

00:45:29,958 --> 00:45:32,125

So yeah, kudos to them.

918

00:45:32,125 --> 00:45:36,708

This is one hip hop fans and crime

drama fans should see

919

00:45:36,708 --> 00:45:48,083

if you haven't already.

920

00:45:48,166 --> 00:45:48,750

Bring it!

921

00:45:48,750 --> 00:45:49,708

C’mon!

922

00:45:49,708 --> 00:45:55,041

Hip Hop Movie Club is produced

by your HHMC’s JB, BooGie, and DynoWright.

923

00:45:55,041 --> 00:45:58,500

Theme music by BooGie.

924

00:45:58,583 --> 00:45:59,708

Bring it! C’mon!

925

00:45:59,708 --> 00:46:04,041

Check us out on Facebook and Instagram

@HipHopMovieClub.

926

00:46:04,041 --> 00:46:07,500

(Bring it!

927

00:46:07,500 --> 00:46:12,125

C’mon!) On the next episode of the Hip Hop

928

00:46:12,125 --> 00:46:16,416

Movie Club podcast,

your HHMC’s will review Hustle and Flow.

929

00:46:16,500 --> 00:46:19,500

Subscribe now on your favorite podcast app

and you won't miss it.

930

00:46:19,583 --> 00:46:20,708

Shout out to you listeners.

931

00:46:20,708 --> 00:46:23,875

Thanks for tuning in.

932

00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:25,875

And remember, don't hate. Levitate.

933

00:46:25,875 --> 00:46:28,208

Bring

934

00:46:28,208 --> 00:46:31,208

it! Levitate.

935

00:46:31,250 --> 00:46:33,208

Rise above it all.

936

00:46:33,208 --> 00:46:35,250

That’s what Caine should have done but.

937

00:46:35,250 --> 00:46:40,125

Caine should have

levitated and rose above it.

938

00:46:40,208 --> 00:46:44,333

The song Levitate with Da Baby and Dua

Lipa.

939

00:46:44,416 --> 00:46:46,125

That was. Big. Yeah. Couple years ago.

940

00:46:46,125 --> 00:46:47,666

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

941

00:46:47,666 --> 00:46:50,083

My daughter loved that one.

942

00:46:50,083 --> 00:46:52,666

She was singing a lot.

943

00:46:52,666 --> 00:46:54,166

Catchy. That's very catchy.