PJ Ellis (00:00)

So welcome to episode four. We are buzzing. That's the technical term for delighted to be joined by the local legend, Ad Davies. How are you, mate?

Ad Davies (00:01)

yeah,

I'm alright thanks

PJ Ellis (00:10)

I'm gonna fail miserably to introduce someone that has done so many brilliant things like you. So in a nutshell, Tell me a little bit more about yourself,

Ad Davies (00:18)

I've had bit of time to think about it now. think I am someone who's probably seen as a jack of all trades and a master of none. So I've done coaching, development, leadership development, HR, people, work, talent, all the way up through to advising boards. And the terminology that was used to describe me at

My most recent place, Gymshark, a cultural architect, so let's go with that.

Andy (00:42)

⁓

PJ Ellis (00:43)

Wow, I

we might talk about some of these job roles that haven't even been created yet, ⁓

Ad Davies (00:48)

architect is the terminology. It was used by someone else, not me, so don't want people thinking I've caught myself that.

PJ Ellis (00:52)

But I think that's quite a nice

So the recent employer was Gymshark. You ended your career at Gymshark as head of talent, development, performance, culture. What was that all about?

Ad Davies (00:58)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, world's longest job title. I think it just vicariously through being with the company so long through the growth and the scale, I sort of had bolt on roles over time. So yeah, I ended up as head of talent development and internal communications. But over the seven years, I've absolutely all sorts as most people did. Just picking stuff up as the place grew in scale.

Andy (01:24)

Just going

back to your early years then, your kind of back backstory, When you were going through schools and coming out of school, university, whatever it was, what was the ambition then? What were you being guided towards?

Ad Davies (01:30)

Mm.

think like most young lads I wanted to, well I thought I'd be a footballer, I wanted to work in football, that was my thing that I wanted to do. But I grew up in a like state school, very poorly run, special measures background. And my mom and dad are very working class, so they worked seven days a week all hours and just sort of crossed over each other. And my one thing was, I suppose my driver was, I just want to be able to provide.

I know I've got this niche for being able to connect and influence and network from a very early age. I was quite comfortable being up in front of people. So I thought, well, I'll be a coach. And that's what I wanted to push myself towards. So early 20s, I was doing my way for B with the likes of Gary Neville, Solskjaer, some really brilliant ex-pros, Ryan Giggs. So I was exposed to all that stuff really early and that's the path I thought I was going to take.

Andy (02:25)

Was that self-funded or was

that something you put through?

Ad Davies (02:28)

Yeah, yeah, self-funded. So I worked two jobs. I worked at Fanuc UK, which is a factory automation company. And I worked at Leicester City of the evening and just tried to stack the money to pay for this stuff because it's expensive. when I got my UEFA B.

Andy (02:41)

got a mate who's manager

at Derby at the moment and he talked about kind going through the coaching badges when he was going through his kind of playing career and it's quite a thing to do isn't it? Again having not been a pro I don't know if you did semi-pro

Ad Davies (02:55)

No, just non-league. yeah, it was scary. Jill Scott was on mine as well and just the... You realise the levels, I think. I think when I was a kid, I thought, yeah, I could play. could stick me in a decent team, I could play. And I quite quickly realised, no, you can't.

Andy (03:08)

It's a bit like the workplace, isn't it? It's made me

think about in terms of having knowledge versus having skills and kind of experience. So not having played, I guess, to some of the levels, was that a disadvantage for you or actually didn't it matter when you were going through that with those sorts of people?

Ad Davies (03:24)

I think I've treated it the same as I have in the workplace. I'm honest where I'm good and I'm equally honest where I'm not. And I don't try and pretend that I've done stuff I haven't done. So to me, I see it as an advantage because it's been hopefully an endearing trait that I'm not walking into dressing rooms or around people and pretending that I've done things I haven't done and connect with them on that level.

PJ Ellis (03:47)

I

suppose I'm looking at your history here, mate. I mean, congratulations on your England boxing qualification from a couple of years ago. What was that all about? Getting into trouble.

Ad Davies (03:56)

So, yeah, well, it's a weird one, really. I'd always done a little bit of boxing myself and I was volunteering at a local gym and they put me through all sorts of courses and qualifications. So I could go with the pros that they have in the gym on fight nights. So they put me through a cut man accreditation and an England boxing, but they are the equivalent of like a level two in football. So it's pretty easy entry into the boxing world.

PJ Ellis (04:18)

and you handy,

Your journey, It's fascinating to be fair. you've, been a sales rep, co-founder of a, was that like working with Leicester City Academy recruitment?

then you moved into Academy Foundation coach went into human resources then found yourself at Gymshark.

Have you been happy with your career so far?

Ad Davies (04:37)

Yeah.

Yeah, 100%. I think I've had an absolute load of opportunity and I've had a lot of people that have put me in front of others and have given me a lot of opportunity and have believed in me. always start keynotes by saying I'm a lad from a local town. there's absolutely no way I should have been stood on a pitch when Leicester won the Premier League or scaling with a business that's grown to a billion quid. So I'm proud.

I don't think my mom and dad could tell you what I've done. We don't have conversations about work, but they give me the old, you've done all right and you'll be fine.

Andy (05:04)

Yeah.

Two or three connections I love is kind of sport and also kind of veterans, people who've been kind of serving overseas and business, So I guess with the mix in your corporate career and your sporting life, how has the world of sport helped you be successful with the likes of Gymshark and people, you say?

Ad Davies (05:29)

massively the lessons that I take from sport I'm constantly taking into business and vice versa. I think there are so many parallels and connections mainly just through the introductions that you get two people from various different backgrounds. In football as an example at Leicester we had I always say we had two types of kids in academies you get

the ones where their parents have their own gigs and their own jobs so they can turn up when they like. And then you had the kids who were turning up on BMXs and they're coming in on their own. And there was no sort of in between. But football is what connected them. I think through business as well, conversations around sports and lessons that you've learned through sport and the etiquette, whatever that sport is, are easy conversation starters at networking events or even as icebreakers.

I'm constantly drawing parallels between the two. I think there's loads to take, especially from leadership.

Andy (06:19)

How did that play

out at Gymshark? mean, I remember I had a tour around the offices a couple of times, which is hugely impressive, the new ones. And there's some good slogans on the wall, you the no dickheads and that kind of thing, which reminded me of kind of James Kerr's book, Legacy, know, linking back to the All Blacks. Was that kind of analogy a key part of the culture there?

Ad Davies (06:40)

Yeah, I think so. think especially in the early days, there was this mindset of leaving the jersey in a better position than what you found it. There's a collectivism there as well, a willingness There was always a team feel. And that was driven by the leadership and it was driven by the connectivity to the business and the purpose and what we were trying to achieve. If I think about my time as a non-league football manager.

I would take that lesson directly from Gymshark and say, we've got to connect ourselves to something. There's got to be a purpose for these people being here. And I think we nailed that part really well in the early doors from a cultural perspective. People were excited to come into work because they felt like they were part of something. And that's pretty similar to what you find in your sporting clubs, isn't it?

Andy (07:21)

Yeah, and you see, it's in the different

you've obviously worked across a few. You you've got your rugby, your football, you've got your boxing and all those kinds of things. Do you think sports are very different or do think there's kind of a common culture that underpins most sports?

Ad Davies (07:36)

I think the commonality and it's shared in business is that everyone wants to succeed for themselves. And I think there's a little bit of selfishness in that first and foremost. I think you find that in sport and in business and in the workplace. But if you can connect people to something, yes, I do think there's a commonality across all sports. And I think it's purpose led, whether that's success or the fact that I feel part of something. It's an interesting one with boxing because the

the boxers in there on their own. At no point in a workplace or in rugby or football are you on your own. You're always surrounded by various other people, but you come back to what you deem to be a leader for guidance between rounds. So I think there's a lot of shared commonality across the sporting context. The main one being that people want to feel part of something bigger than themselves.

PJ Ellis (08:23)

Talking

You mentioned earlier, and it me cold a little bit, to be fair, mate. I don't know whether it's the temperature in this room, but I think it was the sentiment that came through what you said. A lot of people would look at your career and think, wow, that's amazing. Absolutely mint. When I asked that question about whether you're proud of that career, obviously it was a very hard yes, but you then fell quickly into...

know, people believed in me. What would you say true model behavior looks like in 2025?

Ad Davies (08:53)

If I draw on my own experience, it's the provision of opportunity. And I know that people have got to lean into, like I had to lean into that by showing that I was willing to do the work and not just expect things to land in my lap. But if I look across my career, there's a number of people who put me in rooms that I probably shouldn't have been in and that they provided me with opportunity. And that's sort of then been a rule of thumb for me going across every single place I've

stepped into after whether that's Leicester or Gymshark, I want to give people time and opportunity because I do believe everyone wants to do a good job but I don't see everyone getting equal access to opportunity. Like I say, I still roll with the belief and I'll still open speeches with, there's absolutely no way I should have been in some of the places I have been but I've been fortunate enough that people have put me there.

Andy (09:41)

We talk

about the importance of opportunity, probably on every episode so far actually, as a key determinant of performance, around motivation, ability, but if you haven't got that opportunity, you lack the opportunity to thrive and perform. And I know you're a young dad, and I'm a little bit of an older dad, but we're all united here by having some kids. Just thinking about putting yourselves in the shoes, maybe of those early starters at Gymshark or at Leicester.

Ad Davies (09:55)

it.

Andy (10:08)

What you think opportunity like for the younger generation today with everything that's going on around us?

Ad Davies (10:15)

that's a good question. I think it's access. I think it's the gap between what I am educated to be and then what's expected of me when I land in a professional environment gets bigger every single day. So I think it's access to understanding what good looks like in business as I step out of education and what's

expected of me and I know that's a really weird thing to say when we've got access at the tip of our fingers for absolutely everything but I think that creates a bit of a shield the fact that we can jump on our phones or jump on chat GPT and get answers quickly it stops you being put in the rooms and it stops you having access to the opportunity when I entered the world of work you used to have to walk into a place with your CV and have a conversation

and put it down and say I'm interested in working here. So I think access is what true opportunity feels like and I think that's becoming more of a blurred line every day.

PJ Ellis (11:09)

You talk about people putting you in the room. I'm sure Andy will go in on, well, not the company specifically, but he had an experience recently where his son is applying for casual work. His son,

Ad Davies (11:10)

Okay.

PJ Ellis (11:23)

great kid, right, would certainly take advantage of most opportunities that were given to him. He's gone out of his way to, you know, precisely, delicately craft an application and he gets an AI no very quickly, very quickly at half 11 at night. So how do we get these people into the room then? do we remove CVs from the whole process?

Ad Davies (11:44)

Yeah, I've never been a major fan. I've never been a major fan. I think, look, if we're honest with ourselves, do we scan through entire CVs before we make a conscious decision? When we've got time pressure and stuff like that, no. I don't think people can honestly say they do. And I get that we're time poor in organizations, but I think giving people the opportunity to effectively sell themselves is...

is what we need to be doing and whether that's through multiple different means and not just the old school write it down on a piece of paper and tell us what you've done. I'm fortunate in the sense that I'm comfortable being put in front of people. I know I'm a relatively decent storyteller. I know other people are completely different and they would prefer it to be the opposite way. So I think we need to be asking people what's the best way you think you can sell yourself.

to us as an organisation and then we're giving them opportunity and we're giving them access in a way that they prefer. And then if you get a no, at least you know it was on you, rather than being sifted through the old AI format.

PJ Ellis (12:42)

What's the best way you can sell yourself? perfect example here, right? He's going to kill me for saying this, but my son, 14 years old, wants to be an actor, right? That's what he thinks at the moment. At least he's got something, right? I'm biased, but I'm sure you'll be the same. I'm so proud of him. He's got everything going for him to be that actor, to fulfill that dream.

Right. So he knows what he wants. He's got all the ability to be that he's getting the opportunities. So brands are coming to him to say, you audition and all that But then he then he won't go to the audition. So because that isn't the best way for him.

to sell himself, so it comes back to the confidence,

Are the conversations happening too late, around how we build resilience and confidence into these kids

Ad Davies (13:28)

100%. And I don't think it's conscious. I think everyone knows that the problem exists, but it comes back to that, well, what's my lane and what do I operate in? So I'm speaking to a really forward thinking principal at the moment, who's literally said to me, we've got a low percentage of attendance on some of these classes. Can you have a think about what that could look like when it comes to like professional skills?

and bridging the gap, but he's forward thinking, so he's operating outside of his curriculum and that's not me knocking anyone else. I think we're given jobs to do and it comes back to our CV thing, we look at the specification we've been given and we say, well I better operate in that lane then. And I think if you were to ask every educator and businesses, what do we want from people? It would be, well we know that they need to be able to network, they need to be able to have decent conversations.

They need to be able to present, especially in a day and age where you can sit behind your phone or sit behind your laptop. So let's close that gap. And it's stepping out of that fear to say, well, that might not be in our curriculum or that might not be my job spec. It's the right thing to do because it's the provision of opportunity and access.

Andy (14:34)

Yes, spot

on. And back in the day, PJ and I were talking about trying to do something together. One of the things we talked about, was these skills you just highlighted, just don't get taught, just don't get taught at school and don't think they get taught at universities. So it's kind of outsourced to employers. And so there's a huge gap between the softer side, which is an ironic name because they're hard skills to learn.

that kids are going to need versus the technical side, which is going to disappear with, you know, AI, you know, it's going to take a lot of the knowledge that that's needed. So I'm screaming out for forward thinking pioneers, like the principal you're talking about to go, do you know what, to succeed and success is not dependent upon grades. I know that's what they're measured on. It's dependent on sending out well-rounded good human beings who are ready to work and contribute.

Ad Davies (14:59)

Yeah.

Andy (15:26)

More importantly, feel valued.

Ad Davies (15:27)

Yeah, 100%. And I'm also not, I wouldn't want to be mistaken for thinking that we're just talking about extroverted individuals as well when we talk about the ability to speak and the ability to present. I'm just talking about if we can pump some of that stuff in early and help people understand why that's important, that's the differentiator. My dad, he spent 20 years working as like a handyman.

20, 30 years, he used to come in and my mom used to go out for a night shift and she worked at Alliance Healthcare where she did the same job for 20 to 25 years. Neither of them two could tell me the importance of soft skills. I'm just, I saw it relatively early. This might be the thing that enables me to move away from that lifestyle. And that's not, that's not the, I had a brilliant upbringing. We never wanted for anything, but at the same time,

I just saw a gap of, think if I can do those things really well, it might mean that I don't have to cross over with my missus at 7pm and into 6am the next morning. And I think there's a lot of kids in that scenario at the moment where they're thinking, well, what separates me? I can create an unbelievable package through AI of here's all the things I can do really well. And you're being pitted against hundreds of thousands of people for university places and job roles.

I think we need to get in there early and help people realise this is the way that you spotlight yourself.

Andy (16:47)

Yeah, I

mean, my oldest Sammy, he's not doing A-levels, he's doing BTECs because he's not a learner. So, you know, he can't take information and remember it and spit it out in an exam, but BTECs are much more practical.

Ad Davies (16:54)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Well, I suggest he is a learner then Andy sorry to interrupt you.

Andy (17:02)

and he's learned,

he's learned that what his style is. Yeah. Yeah. No, good point. So the BTEC is much more practical and involves projects and interviewing people and having to present and get a flip chart organized and I'm so pleased. That's, that's the route he's taken because that's, I think that's really, really important and kind of relevant because that's what's going to start, as you say, make people stand out a wee bit. And you're right. It's learning what's, what's the right style for you. Cause in any workplace.

Ad Davies (17:06)

Yeah, yeah.

Andy (17:31)

And you know this and I've experienced this of a thousand and 1500 people. There's so many individual styles that you've got to work out how to get the best out of each individual. And it must be the same sport as well. just interested in, you know, what was your approach as a, as a business, but also a coach to work out what would work for PJ, what would work with Andy, what would work for Jane or whoever it was? How'd you go about that?

Ad Davies (17:39)

Yeah.

Yeah.

think firstly I had to look inward and ask myself the question, is my style going to work for all these people? And I think the early answer to that, if you're a leader, should be no. And then that will lead to a question to each of them people, what do you need from me? And in that will become all of those little moments that we have where we go, yeah, but I've got that spreadsheet to complete or I've got to send X amount of emails or it's going to look like I'm not doing anything.

Your fundamental role as a leader, whether it's in sport or in business, is to provide people with time, access, opportunity, and the ability to get stuff done to something that's linked. So I think we need to give ourselves the permission to go, I need a conversation with each of these people. I need to understand what makes them tick. And I need to see my fundamental role day by day to help them link back to what we're trying to achieve.

that will engage them, that will give them purpose. And I have to flex and adapt to my style. And when I bring these people together, I need to help Andy see PJ's skillset and vice versa, and why Andy might be the right person for this bit and PJ for this one. And that's the bit I think we need to be focusing on. And the barrier for leaders will always be, I've got to send out 30 emails.

I've got to do that spreadsheet. I've got to do this board pack. That's not value. Value is getting people to deliver and perform.

PJ Ellis (19:14)

Yeah.

I'm with you there, mate. I mean, as a leader, I I failed a number of times at the first part of that equation, not giving that time to those sort of conversations. I mean, I like that. What do you need from me? So I'm thinking that's me asking somebody else that's just started working in my organization.

but we should be encouraging them to ask me as well. did you ever get someone in a Gymshark and have those conversations and they came in for X, but after those conversations, you both realized they were there to do Y. Yeah.

Ad Davies (19:43)

Yeah, Loads, because it was so fast moving as well, loads of conversations like that. And the nature of the beast there as well was everything was growing so quickly. So there was multiple different directions in which people could veer off. But I think we're really fortunate that we've had leaders at Gymshark who go, hang on, let's just check back in. This was built by an individual for a purpose.

PJ Ellis (19:45)

Mm.

Ad Davies (20:07)

So there's always those moments where we go back to, is this what we wanted to be and what we wanted to do? Or at least it was when I was there during that time. There's a really nice story, recent as well. So before I left, my two weeks after my son was born, I was diagnosed with epilepsy, started having seizures and had to take a bit of time away from work. And Ben, the founder, he called me on a number of occasions and I remember him saying to me,

Well, I remember him not saying much and listening while I poured my issues down the phone call of, this is what's been happening. I can't quite believe it. And he closed one phone call by saying, look, I don't know what I can do, but I can give you time. And I think it would have been easy for him as a leader to try and solve my problem for me. Cause I think that's what we think we have to do. And his...

Andy (20:46)

Okay.

Ad Davies (20:54)

He didn't try and problem solve for me. just said, the only thing I can give you at this moment is time. And I think that, yeah, it's, yeah. And I'll, yeah, I can never have, and I never would have a bad word said about that level of leadership, like, that level of self-awareness to go, I can't problem solve for you, but I can give you this.

PJ Ellis (20:58)

I the most of

It's most expensive commodity, isn't it, to give somebody?

Andy (21:14)

Yeah. I think Simon Sinek talks about that, doesn't he? About kind of sitting in the mud together, just listening. And I'm sure we've all made the mistakes with kids. I certainly have with mine about they've got a problem, try and solve it for them. The best thing to do is just listen and help them and let them work it out for themselves because then it's kind of fixed for the next time.

Ad Davies (21:35)

For sure. For sure.

PJ Ellis (21:36)

I would want to talk about your whole career, but I suspect the most relevant piece is obviously the Gymshark bit around some of the questions I'm to ask now. I can imagine my son, he doesn't become an actor. He loves Gymshark by the way. Can you get any discount codes, mate?

Tell you it's costing me a fortune. Ben, if you're listening mate, And honestly, it's because he feels he belongs. He genuinely feels when he puts that armour on, he's a gym shark boy and he's like, he belongs to this sort of community. So you never know if he doesn't become an actor, he might want to work for that brand

Ad Davies (22:02)

Yeah.

PJ Ellis (22:05)

And it might change because he's got four years until he enters the world of work. Did you see a change in what's motivating Gen Z millennials during that time? Is it changing?

Ad Davies (22:18)

Yeah, think, and it's a weird one, because we sort of contradicted ourselves earlier, but I think they're quicker to expectation and success now. So they, far more than I would in the early stages of work, are sort of, was educated and told, keep your head down. If you've got something to say, you probably need to wait three years to say it because you've not earned the right yet within a business to...

to be enacting change or to be suggesting what could be better. I think they're much quicker to tell you what they think. I think they're much quicker to share their opinion. And I think that demographic or those demographics as a whole are in a much better position to tell you what they think is right and wrong than what I might have been. Because I think we were a little bit more, or I was especially, a little bit more

wait your turn mentality. I think that means that the challenge is how quick can you adapt to change both as an experienced leader, founder, business owner, organisation that may have been doing something successfully in a certain way. How quick are you ready to change and pivot for the next wave of people coming through and for how they've changed.

Andy (23:24)

I love it. mean, I'm probably your combined ages put together almost not far off. And I started out in working, ⁓ God help me, 1991, right? yeah, graduate trainee as Royal Insurance, big old insurance company. And I had an 18 month program And it was stacks of.

Ad Davies (23:33)

E?

Andy (23:41)

Here you go here, you go here, you go here, then you go here But basically at those times, was probably got 18 months before you can really have an opinion and open your gob. Whereas I'm pleased to say having nieces and nephews who've gone through that, it just hones true everything you're saying. Much more opinionated, much more willing to pivot and career for life's gone. So it went in my time as well. think it's serious projects. have, you have projects with companies and they're

all over the globe, highly keen to move and experience life, have their own time as well as company time. And it's really refreshing. And I just think with a 15 and 17 year old, know, if I'm sat here in 10 years time, I struggle to understand what they'll be doing. Cause I see this whole AI shift as it's not gradual. It's a true, true transformational moment in a generation.

Ad Davies (24:14)

Hmm.

Andy (24:33)

And I struggle to see what 10 years looks like for my, for my kids, um, let alone in a business environment. And you know, you've, you've, you've consulted on a whole variety of roles and you were in a company. It's still relatively young. Um, so I'll ask you the impossible question, you know, so, and you've done a lot of work with future faces at the chamber. So what, what, what do careers look like in, in 10 years or can we even think about that?

Ad Davies (24:54)

Yeah.

I think we've got to have a guess and I think we've got to make a plan for what they might look like and have a plan and the ability to shape them in a way that works for our organisations. I think it comes back to your very good point Andy, they're short and they're project based and we're moving away from the notion that you need to showcase that you've been somewhere a long time in order to be deemed as successful or experienced and I think the change will be

that in the shortness of those project-like roles that we take on, it's what value have you demonstrated? What change have you enacted? What transformation have you led or been part of? What good work have you done? And I think that will become the differentiator whereby it's why I was so comfortable at this point to move away. It's like a transfer out of football. In my head, it was...

Well, I'll go out while I'm at my best. I'll leave now while I'm at my best and I've delivered a load of really good stuff for a company that I love. And I love it. And it would have been easy to sit there. And if I'd have took the advice of my parents, they're like, no stable income monthly. You've had a kid, you're getting married, now's not the right time to be taking risks. I think there'll be shorter roles and bigger risk appetite.

PJ Ellis (26:05)

Yeah.

Ad Davies (26:14)

and it will be based on value you've delivered because that will become the differentiator in a world where we can all churn out the same stuff over and over again easily.

Andy (26:23)

Yeah,

yeah. No, love, love that. And again, you've had a bit of international exposure for your time at Gymshark. Do you see geographically, do you see differences and we've got a business in Canada and America, know, expectations for careers or young people, North America, Europe, Asia, did you see much difference in your time there?

Ad Davies (26:43)

Yeah, a bit of speed, more so in the US. Speed to delivery and forwardness in the way that people operated and understanding that system and how it works out there was definitely an education for me. And I think people will have the ability to do anything from anywhere based on their skill set. And I'm not just talking hybrid in the ability to do it from home, but I think there'll be some young people out there that will go, well, actually I want to work through the night.

I'm a gamer, I'm used to being up at night, I wanna work through the night and I wanna mine something or do something that just turns over for a company. And that's how I learn my living and that's my preference. And I think we're just shifting from that typical career and typical job journey. And people will have the ability to do it from anywhere like we are now.

PJ Ellis (27:28)

100%, mate, 100%. I call my son a gamer. Apparently, you're not allowed to use that term anymore, How did you...

create a culture, where people felt connected and not just informed.

Ad Davies (27:41)

Yeah, yeah. I think it's easier in a founder-led business, because it's driven by the person who created the thing in the first place. So you're always going to feel more connected to what the purpose of the organization is than I imagine you are in something that's not led by a founder. The reaffirmation of that can't be a tell-tell-tell. It needs to be a show-show-show and include.

Where I've seen it done really well, especially in companies like Gymshark, is we all knew it was created by Ben and his friends for the reason that he wanted to feel included in something and that gym culture and gyms were intimidating for him. He wanted to find his way in. They did a really good job as a leadership population of including people in the next phases and waves. And gone are the days where people get told.

and do I think. More so now you need to include in order for people to buy in, which is a strange concept if I was to have a conversation with my dad. My dad would say I did what I was told and you should do what you were told. So I think people more so now, more than ever, they need to feel included and part of something.

PJ Ellis (28:45)

Did you have very, let's call them leadership pipelines, were they very clear or was it more sort of what's the word, like what you felt in that moment? I remember the good old days as a lawyer, it was very sort of methodical. If you did this, this, this, you'd go to this tier, da, da, da, da, and all the grade salaries and what have you would follow. Was that similar in Gymshark or was it a little bit more malleable

Ad Davies (29:07)

Yeah.

but I think that's everywhere and everyone I speak to at the moment. I see, I still hear people, I don't know if they really want it. I think they might want something else or if we were to really dive into data and research on it, I think they want something else, but people will still talk to the, if I do a certain amount, what's next for me? And that's the question they'll be asked or they're asking, what's next for me? I think those levels of...

do this, then this, then this, then this, they're gone. Ben was an example in himself. He was CEO. He stepped down from being CEO. He did multiple roles across the organization to get a real appreciation for the business and then stepped up again. And Andy, coming back to your earlier point, I think that's what we should definitely take from a past working life where that was done really well. People were educated across multiple areas of business.

And that was a tacit experience that you needed in order to say, now understand commerce and how the business operates. That's an issue we're going to run into. People want the bump, bump, bump. If I do this, I get this. Without understanding all these aspects that you really need to know in order to do well.

Andy (30:17)

Yeah, 100 % agree with that. kind of patient approach. live in a society that's, if it's not delivered in a second, then we're bored, aren't we, and move on. Just a slight pivot in direction here, because I know you've recently been part of the judging panel for the Future Faces Award at the Chamber, which is awesome. What's the talent like in the region, the young talent like that we're seeing coming through based on what you read?

Ad Davies (30:43)

Well, look, I'll start with an admission that I always walk away inspired and insecure.

Andy (30:49)

Yeah, I know what you mean that.

PJ Ellis (30:50)

Good right, it's

Ad Davies (30:51)

It is good. It is good because I think I walk away from each one and I'm like, wow, I was not when I was in my early 20s operating at that level with that level of understanding. still I sometimes think I don't even have that now. I think the greater Birmingham area as a whole has incredible talent because of its diversity of thought and ideas. And I think.

Andy (31:12)

Yeah.

Ad Davies (31:14)

If you're a business at the moment, you should be dipping your toe in that region. Even if you're a business down south, as an example, where loads of people flock to after they've studied, you need to be dipping your toe into the region of talent because the diversity of thought, even just on the day, from a judging perspective, you half expect to hear the same thing. ⁓ people will give us a structure and they'll say they've done this and that. The level of ideas coming out of young people in the greater Birmingham area and

the level of deliverables that they can showcase. People are dealing with multi-million pound contracts in this early stage of their career. I think we're in a really good spot. I think we're in a really good spot. And a big shout out to the Chamber and the Future Faces as well, because they've got to be one of the biggest professional networks at this point, not just in the local area, in the country. And when we come back to our earlier conversation about access,

That's the type of stuff I mean.

Andy (32:03)

Yeah, no, I agree. do a lot with the chamber. Great, great organization. I think they've got a real pivotal role to play around things like young people, AI and supporting the mayor and his kind of deliverable plan and accesses everything. You're absolutely spot on, Ad

PJ Ellis (32:19)

I'm with you, mate. I mean, I was a judge, I'd say last year, but I don't think it was because I lost Mom maybe the year before. can't remember, but mate, walking away inspired and worried was exactly my feeling. There's a lady, think she won it. Is it Santina Bunting? Oh, I mean, what? I mean, she's 20. She's like, I mean, I think she's 20. I mean, I can't keep up. It's just, we just had a...

Ad Davies (32:23)

Yeah, it was.

Yeah.

PJ Ellis (32:43)

Previous episode was with Abbie from Millennium Point. She said, youth unemployment across the Midlands is at 14%. The national average is 7%. And we've got this talent pool of rich, diverse individuals that are performing at levels that I literally cannot keep. mean, comparison is the thief of all joy. So I'm definitely trying not to compare myself to these young kids. But they're brilliant. I mean, this leads me nicely into

Ad Davies (33:05)

AM.

PJ Ellis (33:10)

You are clearly a very good storyteller. I could listen to you all day and I could listen to Gym Shark's message all day. how important is storytelling, would you say, in building all those cultures, shaping that behavior and change, but also in not then giving those kids that expectation.

that things are going to happen so quickly and so easy. So you want those kids to be intrigued to say what's next, what's next, what's next through that storytelling, that art and building that culture. But there's a real fine line, isn't there?

Ad Davies (33:32)

Yeah.

Yeah, 100%. I think it's a great point. We've never had more influence and more access to influence and the ability to influence through all the mediums that we have, whether it's podcasts, TikTok, social media. So we've never had more opportunity to influence your minds than we have today. So I think there's a responsibility in that. I think there's a responsibility to understand

PJ Ellis (33:48)

Mm.

Ad Davies (34:04)

When I put something out, what's the impact and effect it's going to have? And then I think equally, there's a responsibility to say, and what opportunity am I going to provide off the back of it? Everywhere is building cultures and communities at the moment because it's the way to bring people in to what you're doing. And there's an expectation from young people, or at least the ones I speak to, that I need to be able to connect myself to something, otherwise I'm not interested. So I think there's a play from both sides.

Andy (34:26)

Bye.

Ad Davies (34:29)

I'm not going to suggest it's the reason for youth unemployment, but I think the expectation on that side has gone up a little bit as the skills and the ability to step into the professional world has, especially from when I was entering it. And I think organizations are also a little bit fearful of, am I ready for this change and transformation that I will need to be responsible for? And I think that's probably why that gap widens a little bit and that is only my...

opinion.

Andy (34:56)

Well, you know, I'll echo it and I'll tell ourselves off as a region because we are, talk ourselves down we're humble Brummies. I think in the growth plan that was recently announced on Monday, it talks about trying to share the story of the West Midlands succeeds, the country does. And we've all got, I'm sick of being in rooms where we all say, we've got to get better at telling our story as a region. It's got to start sometime. There's no better time than today.

Ad Davies (35:05)

Yeah.

Andy (35:22)

⁓ as a collective, because there's so much good stuff, unicorns, like the business you've worked in great universities. And we just aren't prepared to stick our heads above the parapet and be brave in case we're perceived as braggy. as a region, we've got to start to put ourselves forward and it's our time. Cause otherwise it'll be someone else's time the way

Ad Davies (35:42)

we'll use the phrase just because she's so incredible at it. Let's be more Santina as a greater Birmingham area. Because that's someone who's ready to put themselves in any room because there's opportunity. And that's someone who listens. And that's someone who is able to deliver without coming across as braggy. That's someone who can talk to absolutely anybody. And I think that's the West Midlands.

Midlands away. There is the, and it is a perception, that the further south you go, the less inclined people are to talk to you and say hello, like you can walk around Birmingham and speak to everybody. I think that's the story we should be telling as a West Midlands and Greater Birmingham area. there is access to us. There is access to our businesses, there's access to our people and there's access to real stories. And I think you can still be humble in that.

And think that's something we should definitely hold on to. But I think we should be, to use your terminology Andy, a little bit more brave in saying, actually here's everything we are doing. There's so many stories of that, you've only got to sit on the judging panel for that day.

Andy (36:43)

Yeah,

PJ Ellis (36:44)

that's interesting there, mate, brave, be humble. I mean, a lot of those resonate with, lot of that was Gym Shark wasn't it? know, Steve Hewitt used to end with a lot of, you know, be humble and all that sort of stuff. So Joe Lycett and Santina Bunting for ambassadors for Birmingham and the West Midlands. That's the lesson for today. ⁓ The last one from me, mate I know you've got to go and be a dad. And thank you for being so open, mate, with the journey that you're going on. I wish you all the best with that. And I've got time for you, mate, if you need it.

Ad Davies (37:02)

Yeah.

PJ Ellis (37:12)

You're going back into work, I would have thought, as a young buck What does it look like for you, mate? What's motivating you? What's next?

Ad Davies (37:13)

Yeah.

There is a bit of a lesson in it for people. think the first thing I've done is I've said I'm having a break. I've never really had one. We started the podcast by talking about two jobs and I sort of always have because that's what I saw from my parents. So I've had a break and with that break has come a little bit of perspective as it often does amongst the sleepless nights and making it as you go along as a parent. But the...

I think the perspective I've got is I want the next thing I do to be something I'm passionate about because I think I've learned about myself. If I do something just for the sake of it, you probably ain't getting a very good version of me. So I need to be doing something that I'm interested in that invigorates me that I'm passionate about. We get married on September the 5th in Santorini, me and my wife to be Lizzie. After that is when I'm going to start dipping my toe. But I've

I've spoke to people, there's a couple of decent options on the table. What I can promise you two is if I do something, it'll be something that I really see as a challenge and something I can invest myself in. Probably because I need to feel that value proposition. I need to know that you think I'm doing good work.

Andy (38:21)

contest.

PJ Ellis (38:22)

That's

fantastic. Play with passion. I reckon we'll see you pop up playing for Leicester, mate. You never know.

You know, I always like to end with like, I've just starred some things here. You what's the best way you can sell yourself? This is the way you should spotlight yourself. What do you need from me? Be more Santina. I could list more and more. Ad, mate.

I am so grateful for your time, mate. We wish you all the best. How cool was that, Andy?

Andy (38:46)

Yeah, the thing that really stands out for me is a bit of a combined responsibility for employees out there is the gratitude you obviously have for the people who put you in the rooms you didn't think you should be in. That's a great message.

Ad Davies (38:57)

Yeah, and I think thank you to you too as well, because this is opportunity in itself. I've obviously stepped away from something that I loved and something massive. The ability to put myself out there on a podcast and just to have a bit of a natter. That's opportunity and that's access. So thank you both very much.

Andy (39:13)

We'll have you back, we'll have you back and hear what you do next.

Ad Davies (39:15)

Thank you.