Speaker 2: [00:00:00] Three, four years ago, I could not imagine my life without that relationship and in what felt like safety.

It was a misnomer. That was not safe. It was not safe in any way for me, but it was familiar and it felt like it was safe.

Speaker: Welcome to Heartbreak to Wholeness, the podcast helping you heal from the mindfuck of narcissistic relationships and move towards the secure, peaceful woman you want to become. We will explore all of the tools that you need to get through your grief, to move past those I'll be alone forever fears, and rebuild your confidence so you can move forward in healthy relationships as your full self.

Never to get sucked into the narcissistic spell again. I am your host, Bre Wolta, Relationship Clarity Coach and EFT Certified Practitioner. Let's dive in.

Welcome to this episode. This week, I had the pleasure of interviewing a woman named Taj about her story of leaving a narcissistic [00:01:00] relationship, despite all of her fears. And I know that this episode is going to resonate with so many of you, because like so many of you and like so many of my clients Taj had the beliefs that she, you didn't have enough money.

She didn't have enough resources. She didn't have enough time or capacity to care for her child. If she were to leave. And be on her own. An integer story. You'll see her, her child actually also has special needs, which adds another layer of complexity to the situation. But she was able to move through all of those voices.

And it's such a beautiful story of how she really found compassion for herself and made that final decision. To leave. So we talk about how in the leaving, she actually reclaimed all of the energy. And the resources and the opportunity opportunities that she needed to thrive as a single person out of that unhealthy relationship.

We talk about the importance [00:02:00] of resetting the nervous system, what that means and why that's important when you've been living in some sort of survival state in a narcissistic relationship.

And then we talk a lot about finding compassion for yourself and your choices and your history and the reasons why we make these choices.

And how to actually step out of that rescuer role. If you find yourself in the co-dependence tangle in relationships. What it means to stop rescuing people and to start choosing yourself first to start giving yourself the loyalty first,

Remember to stick around to the end of the episode, where I will pull an Oracle card that will offer you a specific message that you can hold onto this week in your healing.

And for those of you listeners that come back week after, week on Fridays for new episodes,

we are shifting our episode published day to Wednesday. So you'll actually be getting new episodes starting next week on Wednesday and every Wednesday thereafter.

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Speaker: Welcome to the podcast, Taj. Thank you so much for [00:03:00] being here.

Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much for having me.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. I know that coming into a podcast where you're being asked to share your story with who knows how many people will be listening can cause a little bit of.

of nervousness and just might be the first time that it's done on more of a public level. So I want to thank you for being willing to, to share I'm sure listeners can relate on so many levels to what you've gone through and, and seeing where you are now is so empowering.

Speaker 2: Oh, well, absolutely.

Speaker: So give us a little overview of where it feels good to start about your story of being in the, in the toxic dysfunctional relationship, and what, what did it feel like when you were really in it, when it was really feeling really hard?

Speaker 2: It felt like I just kept thinking there's got to be a way to make this better. There's got to, you know, trying to fix it always. There's got to be, you know, what can I do? What can I [00:04:00] communicate? I would listen to podcasts about communication and relationships and I always thought if I could just communicate things better. In a way that, you know, my, my partner could understand it or could get it. Like he, you know, maybe he's just not understanding we're different people and everybody understands things different and we don't all think the same.

And I was constantly excusing behavior and I was constantly excusing,, his just kind of refusal to work on things and, in the really hard times, I just remember thinking, like, is there any way that this could be a good relationship at some point for both of us, something we both enjoy and both want to be in, and one that gives that the kind where you're just really happy cause it was not that, and I don't think it was ever that, it just, it took me a long time to realize it.

, I had a lot of self criticism, but then I was criticized, you know, he would mirror, all the [00:05:00] criticism and was constantly telling me and reinforcing like, yeah, you really are not a great person. Yeah, you really do have all these things you need to work on.

And he was always saying if. If, if you were just do, you know, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, then you would be a really great person. You have so much potential to be this really great person and I, that never sat well with me. But I, just thought I am slowly building up my self esteem and my self worth.

In the middle of something where somebody is constantly attacking that, you know, it's like I'd have these moments of clarity where I can understand he is always attacking my self worth but it, you know, it was a long process.

Process for me.

Speaker: Oh my gosh. I can relate so deeply to that, that desire to just think that you, you just haven't found the answer yet. And you meaning us, . The person that's in the receiving side of these types of relationships, we're like, Oh, I'll [00:06:00] just need to, I just need to do more therapy.

I just need to, to use different words. I just need to have a better formula to set a boundary. Which those are all good tools to have, but we think that we can have the solution when a communication problem needs to be addressed by both sides. It needs to take both people putting in effort and work to be able to solve it.

To shift that, but I got very stuck there too. In my past relationship, I was just spinning all of the time. What can I do? What am I not doing? Right? How can I do this differently? Doing therapy for the both of us. It was, it was so much energy and so exhausting.

Speaker 2: And that's, that is a great point.

It is so much energy. Had a very, a very common story where I was mom and caregiver to, I have a son with, my oldest son has special needs and I have a younger son. I was in charge of the house. I was in charge of the finances. I was in charge of doctors appointments and with a special needs [00:07:00] child, there are, I mean, we might do 12, 15, 20 doctor appointments in a year and, and communicating with them.

And it's, it's a different, it's different than a typically functioning child who is relatively good health. Um, I was doing all of this and I was, and I felt like I was not doing any of it well. Because I was stretched in every way and I wasn't getting enough sleep and I didn't have the connection with friends and I didn't have the connection with the outside world and I didn't have the connection with myself is the main thing because to in order to stay in that relationship I had slowly and I'd cut off all the the avenues to self that I already had and I think it took me a long time to realize that I was in a marriage with a narcissist.

Um, one, I didn't know what it was for a long time, and the first time I heard the term, he was calling me a narcissist,

Speaker 3: and

Speaker 2: I thought, what does that even mean? Am I? I don't think I am, but maybe, let me look it up, and so I looked it up, and I'm like, well, okay, well, I sometimes I do [00:08:00] this, does that mean I'm a narcissist?

Oh my god. And then I'm, and then the more I'm thinking about it, I'm like, well, he does a lot of these things. And does he realize it? And, and I still, I couldn't really comprehend it. It was much, much later and, and friends kind of slowly, like people, not just friend, friends, but people who I trusted who have had experience with narcissistic relationships and abusive relationships would chime in and they would use this term.

And then when I find, I started therapy after we had decided to get divorced and it just, I, I found them a great therapist for myself. It's just like the therapist I'd been looking for. And she's very quickly, very soon on started using the term narcissist. And I didn't yet, I still wasn't even comfortable completely labeling it like that.

And I, it took even longer for me to realize that I, you know, my relationship with my dad growing up was an, he, he was a narcissist , a different version than my, um, than my [00:09:00] ex. When I first started dating my ex, I felt there was a, I thought, I kept thinking there's this relationship feels like no other relationship.

But when I look back, I'm like, it was tumultuous from the start. Why did I, why did I not bail? Why did I not go, this is bad? And my, my friends were going, this is not good. I don't like this. And, um, But I, there was that familiarity you know, my, my therapist put it, I asked her, I was like, you know, I was in a very early on, I was crying and why did I choose a man that's so similar to my dad?

I tried so hard to go the opposite direction. And she said, Well, you know, it's not about the surface things, right? It's not about do they say this or do this? Exactly. It's do they make you feel the same way? And so yeah, I, that I felt the same way I felt in my marriage.

I felt abandoned, which is my childhood wound. And here. I was trying to complete it and I didn't have any other, anything else to any other tools to help me for such [00:10:00] a long time. Just felt like I was swimming and treading water and treading water. And then I would float a little bit and then I would tread water and tread water.

And I didn't, and the person that was supposed to be throwing, you know, your partner would hopefully be able to throw you a life raft, say, Hey, maybe you. Let's get you some help if you're really hurting that hard, that much, you know, and the person that was supposed to be helping was just, you know, splashing water in my face the whole time.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 2: So I, The trying to get the realizing what situation you're in when you're in it is so difficult if you don't have anybody else helping you. And sometimes you do, but you can't see it. I couldn't, my friends told me and I couldn't see it.

Speaker: Well, it takes a willingness to, to hear it, right? It takes, I know for in, in my experience too, it was like, well, what does it mean about me?

If he is a narcissist, what does that mean about my, my ability to pick men or who I am or my wounding? But to your point, it was familiar, right? [00:11:00] The, the ways that they acted towards you or us feels familiar on some level to something that, that we had in childhood that was dysfunctional, but it's familiar and we always lean towards.

Familiar because it takes less energy in our brain to recognize what's happening or to be in that situation. We sort of know how to dance in that dysfunction. We know how to be in relationships where we're talked down to or disrespected or where we don't have to have needs because we can just take care of them.

Right. It's, it's easier on some levels. And it triggers

Speaker 2: our coping mechanisms, which is already what we're doing anyway. So it all, yeah, it's a very familiar, easy cycle to be in, even though it's not easy to endure. It's easy to be in it now. So I, I didn't recognize it took, it took physical abuse in my relationship for me to realize and start looking back.

Oh, I've, I've been emotionally and mentally abused. [00:12:00] This whole time? And I could, and then what exactly what you said, I, what does that mean about me? And I felt like that made me so weak. And I used to help out at a women's shelter. And so I kind of knew, I knew about cycles and I knew a little bit, I knew about how typically women feel like that, or, not always women, but, and I, but I still, I, you know, it's different when you have to go through it and you feeling it.

And I, it took the physical abuse for me to go, Oh, this is emotional mental abuse too, and that is so deep seated. And. And yeah, and I was, you know, emotionally abused as a child. And my, and I watched my, I more, I watched my mom be talked down to and disregarded and treated like she was less than and her, my whole life as, um, as my whole childhood.

And when I, and so it's, it was like these moments of realizations and it's exactly what you said. I couldn't see it because I couldn't, I could not see it and [00:13:00] survive is what I thought. I was, I was pretty sure even I think from the beginning that I was Being cheated on, but I just could not look at it.

And I remember well after, after my son with special needs was born. And that was just, that was a whole different dynamic of care, like the intense caregiving and learning and then grieving the expectation of, Oh, I had the expectation as a pregnant mom that my child would have this life, just little, not, not specifics, not growing up to be a gymnast or a singer or something, but that he would, you know, go through the typical milestones of crawling and.

walking and, you know, thumb sucking and, or whatever, I had to grieve that and be a mom and be a wife and somehow do all of this. And I was juggling all of this and , I knew, there were so many times where I thought, this doesn't sound right. I should maybe look into this. I should maybe go through a phone.

And I thought, no, I don't even want to know. I just don't even want to know. And I could, and now when I look back, I'm like, oh, I [00:14:00] couldn't, I couldn't. have taken that because that would have been a deal breaker and I would have had to leave and I didn't feel like I could leave. I didn't feel like I could support my kids on my own and do, even though I was doing a large percentage of all of it myself already.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 2: I didn't, I couldn't, I could not understand. that the balance, when you leave a toxic relationship, you have so much relief.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 2: I didn't realize that that would, , re, re leaving yourself of this toxic, heavy, damaging relationship and that presence in your life, it, it balance, you know, it's, you think it's going to be, oh, I'm going to be so weighed down with responsibility, but it's like, oh, look at all this buoyancy I have.

I'm floating to the top. And for my case, I'm like, oh, look at all this extra money I have. Once I cut him off, I'm like, oh. I'm actually doing way better than I thought. And I said, started to see like videos and on, on social media before I was, before we decided to divorce and split. [00:15:00] And, and I kept seeing women saying, you know, I, I got rid of my man child and now I, I'm actually, it's actually so much better.

Yes, there's hard, it's hard being a single parent. It's hard being a parent period. And now I don't have that extra draining, leeching, you know, energy. And I did not know to account for that. When I thought all the, I can't, and I can't, I don't think I can, I had no idea. All the cans that come up with just leaving that person and, um, how empowering you feel knowing.

That you're making a decision that's better for you.

Speaker: Oh my gosh, that is such an important point because when you are in it and you're being sucked on every level, energetically, emotionally, spiritually, financially, all of the things we can only think about the other side. That it's going to feel the same way, but we're just going to be alone.

But really what happens to your point is if, if our cup has been leaking, if it just has holes in it in every [00:16:00] direction from this person, all of a sudden we're plugging all those holes so that we can actually refill our cup.

Speaker 3: And

Speaker: as we refill our cups and everything, we become more capable of all of the other things because we're not worried about creating another fight.

We're not worried about. through a phone. We're not worried about are we actually worthy in this relationship? There's less things demanding our energy. And the relief is, is like nothing that I had ever experienced either, where I remember waking up and like, before I had even opened my eyes, I almost had that, that gut feeling like, Oh my God, how is today going to be?

And then I realized that he didn't live with me anymore. And we weren't in the relationship anymore. And I was like, like, I think it was the first time that my body actually could. Relax into the bed. It was, it was such a, it was like, I was no longer in the nightmare. [00:17:00]

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. The physicality of being in a toxic relationship.

I've been learn, I know, I know, I know people are learning this or talking about this more, but the, you know, the difference between the sympathetic and the parasympathetic and your nervous system. Yeah. And, and the sympathetic being the fight, flight, freeze fa and the parasympathetic being the rest and restore.

Um, and I, it's, I am still, I mean, I'm years, out of being in that relationship or in a, I mean, I still co-parent , um, but I guess over a little over two years since he moved out or something like that. I can't, I don't know, but when I, I started, I felt that relief. I felt like, oh, this is my space and I get to reclaim it, but it is taking a lot of work.

I'm still working on teaching my body. To be in the parasympathetic most of the time instead of default sympathetic. And I still, there are times when I'm feeling really great. And then there's something that I realized, Oh, I'm, I am in the sympathetic. I'm in that like adrenaline, like, woo, kind of go, go, [00:18:00] go.

And it feels good to me. Cause I like being productive and I like doing things. And I like being active in all kinds of ways, but my body is like, can you just take a nap? Can you just, you know, like I have years of years of, um, of being in the sympathetic, not just because of my relationship, but that I think very early on, I, I was on guard, even though it, it took a long time for, before the physical abuse happened.

Um, I, my body knew, my body knew that this is not safe. There's parts of me that, that knew this was not safe, a safe place for me, but I didn't, I didn't know to listen to those parts, . And,

Speaker 3: um,

Speaker 2: and I think that just the physical toll it takes on your body, even if it's not an abusive, a physically abusive relationship, it takes a toll.

And that's, I have a really good friend who's was in. an abusive marriage for 20 something years. And we talk about that, like you can't just switch from 20 years of being in a, in a sympathetic mode all the [00:19:00] time to parasympathetic. It takes intention and it takes practice. You just practice it. And, and I was going to say, I was also in that because I have a son with special needs.

He has seizures and there's a, There was a lot of switching into that rescue mode with him for his, he's 12 now. So for 12 years, I've also, there's also been a lot of, you know, emergency calls and that where my body had a hard time. So yeah, there is a lot to be said for rest and restore, not just self care, but self care that takes you into the restore.

And it, I think lazy is the worst word ever. And it's such a critical word about any, by any time anyone's trying to be in the rest and restore, like just let yourself nap.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Just soak in the tub if that's what you want to do, or just lay on the floor with your dogs, whatever it is, if it's restful and it feels good to your body, it's healing.

Speaker: Yes. Yeah. That non doing, right. We have to reprogram because that's part of the safety. That's part of the [00:20:00] hypervigilance. That's part of the being on guard is like, we can never, we can never drop our, our body or our mind or our eyes or anything because we have to be aware of what's happening. And I EFT tapping with my clients.

To, to do exactly that, to help reprogram the nervous system and, and help them feel if even for an hour in our session, what it feels like to feel safe in your body. Because the more that we can come back into that place of, okay, there's safety here. There's safety here. There's no longer the tiger running at me.

Yeah. That's, that's how we start to, to subtly shift our default, we're just creating a new set point. We got put into a very high stress situation and just lived there. Like we never came out of the sympathetic. And so. The sympathetic is great when you need to get away from danger, but if you're just living in danger, then it's the, the stress hormones, everything, it's creating so much chaos [00:21:00] internally, as well as the chaos in our external.

So we have to take some really intentional effort to, to bring that back in, back down to neutral. Yes.

Speaker 2: I love, I love the EFT tapping. I've, I do it just, I find videos and sometimes I just do it when I feel overwhelmed or feel I can tell I have a feeling that's just, I can't, I can't seem to stop it, stop the spiraling or whatever.

And I'm just like, you know, let's just tap a little bit and then I can, then we can work on it. Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah, for, for the listeners who aren't sure what EFT tapping is, it's a somatic modality where we are actually activating different acupressure points on our face and our torso and our hands while we're feeling a trigger or while we're in some sort of emotional distress and the activation of those acupressure points helps to regulate the nervous system.

And when we are more regulated, then we can become more curious about what we're feeling and then we can find compassion for what we're feeling. So it really is sort of [00:22:00] that gateway to being able to actually integrate feelings instead of staying on the surface, like running away from them.

Speaker 2: Yes. I, when I, the kind of therapy that I started doing is, um, it's primarily the internal family systems.

So IFS, um, a lot of people just call it parts therapy. Most of the time I call it parts therapy, but we also, my therapist, we do, we do somatic practices first. She's not, we don't, I don't do the tapping with her necessarily, but we do, you know, it's breath, it's focused on breath in one way or the other. We do different Breathing exercises and, , I love, I, one I've recently learned about is, I don't know if you know the author, um, uh, what's her name?

It's Dr. Becky and her book is Good Inside. And she's, um, she does a lot about parenting, but she, there's a lot of the somatic, That it's just first, you've got to kind of get in your body.

And she always talks about modeling for your kids. Okay. When they're having a hard time, I'm going to take a few [00:23:00] deep breaths and she called in her book, she calls them hot cocoa breaths, which is, it's great for children, but it's perfect for me too. And she, the idea is that you breathe in your nose. Like you're smelling the nice fragrance of hot cocoa.

And S and then when you exhale. You blow out and you blow like you're blowing the hot cocoa to cool it off, but you don't, you're not blowing the marshmallows off. So you can't blow too fast. So you have that nice controlled breath. So I try to use that with my kids, but I also, sometimes I just think, man, I need a hot cocoa breath right now.

And I like it because that I can, I can picture the hot cocoa. I can smell it. And then, which also helps when you're doing the five senses. When you're thinking and hearing and smelling and in your mind, it's working in your body to calm things down.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. It's another, another tactic to find safety, to be able to recognize where you are in the moment instead of where your brain is, is kind of taking you in, in the threat places.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm in, in the IFS therapy.

There's like this kind of a spiritual [00:24:00] component and it can, you know, be whatever you don't, you don't have to use any kind of specific spiritual terminology. So for me, I like the terminology of source energy or like my true self. And It's more and more, I'm learning to, if I can live out of my true self, then my true self has capacity, and compassion, and creativity, and joyfulness, and playfulness, and peace, and quiet, and stillness, or silly, you know, all these things that feel really good freedom, And so when I do the IFS therapy, I kind of call my true self in.

And it's always here. It's just, you forget when you're working out of a scary part or your operate, you realize, man, on my mind is spiraling.

Speaker 3: And then

Speaker 2: in the parts therapy world, that's, that's just a protector. That's trying to tell stories

Speaker 3: to keep

Speaker 2: you safe. And it's like, this, that protector is maybe a part of you.

That's. Six. If you've ever listened to a six year [00:25:00] old, they do tell quite a lot of stories and they can be spinning around and there's, doesn't have to be any logic to them. And, you know, when you have a conflict in a relationship and then you've got this little voice that's going all the, you know, round and round.

And it, maybe it's telling you the same story 10 times and it's just like, okay, To recognize like, okay, this part you're, you're trying to protect me because you don't want me to feel whatever that, whatever the underlying feeling is. But those parts are exhausting and they, you can drain your own energy and you can stress yourself, yourself out and pop yourself up into sympathetic mode and just, you know, buzz around and not realize that you're, you're trying, what you're doing is of what you're trying to avoid that feeling.

You're trying to run away from whatever it is. And, but your true self. knows that, Hey, I can feel this feeling and it's not going to kill me. Cause I'm not, I'm not a kid anymore. I'm not six years old or five years old or three years old. It's like those little kid parts of you don't realize that, Hey, I'm an adult.

I actually have an [00:26:00] adult self who, you know, pays bills and can drive a car and do all these adult things. And I also have an adult self who is capable and can feel this feeling and it's not scary. And it's the same as a, as a parent. I sit with my, my little kid and I say, gosh, this feeling is so big and it feels so bad.

And we sit and we feel it and man, kids are so resilient. They just, he's like ready to bounce back after 10 seconds of feeling it. It's like, yeah, or 30 seconds or a minute. And it's like, yeah. Okay. Let's play cars.

Speaker: Yes. Yeah. IFS is such a beautiful modality and way for us to find compassion. Because if we can look at our experience as just like a summation of all of these parts that are coming in and coming out, it gives, it reduces the shame and embarrassment about what we're feeling in that moment,

it's like, Oh, I'm having a really anxious part. That's sort of taking the wheel right now.

Speaker 3: And the

Speaker: analogy that I use with my clients [00:27:00] is , imagine you're driving a school bus and when you're in your self energy, all of your parts are really trusting you to drive and you're driving down the road and then something happens and one of the parts is like, no, I need to take the wheel because I don't trust you to figure this out.

So the anxiety part or the sadness part or the whatever part comes forward and jumps on your lap and takes the wheel and jars you to the left off a cliff. And you're like, So it takes awareness of and separation from that part to be able to understand what that part actually means. But when we're in the part, we're really enmeshed and we can't re parent that part, we can't give that part any sort of love or understanding or compassion because we are just, like, as one with it.

So we have to have tools to be able to regulate the nervous system to a point where we can say, This is a part of me that's feeling this thing. And I feel this part in my body. This is a very familiar part. [00:28:00] This is, you know, a part that's five years old and we can get really curious. And specific around what those parts look like, and it really helps to, to make healing, feel more doable other than just like, get over it.

It's like, Oh, now I know that this part is coming forward. And every time this part comes forward, this is what this part needs to hear. And I just need to take a moment from the emails and from the filling of my calendar and from the binging Netflix to turn towards. this feeling and let myself be with it because I know how to do that now.

And I know how to, how to comfort that part of me.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think it, it helps with the, like the, having the compassion for yourself and just making sense of why do I keep doing this behavior that I don't agree with? I don't, I think it's, you know, maybe I have judgment on that part, even that. Why do you, keep driving off the cliff?

Why do you keep oversleeping or, uh, [00:29:00] um, mouthing off or in a, in a situation where it's not going to make it better or, you know, whatever it is. And it's like, when you say, oh, this is a part of me, that part is really scared. It reminds me of, the, Elizabeth Gilbert, the author who wrote, Eat, Pray, Love is her most famous, but she wrote, I love the book, she wrote Big Magic.

Speaker 3: Uh huh.

Speaker 2: It's just all about connecting with the big magic in life and, and she as a writer, she talks about, you know, she has a lot of fear. When she starts writing that book's gonna be awful and, she just says, okay, you can be with me in the car. But you can't, I'm driving, I'm driving this car and so I'm going to keep writing, but you can sit here and you can talk, we can talk a little bit and I read that book way before I knew about parts therapy and I love that just acceptance of this fear because it, you know, All these parts of ourselves have an important thing to say to us, you know, the part as I go back and look through the parts of me that were, that I did not listen to in, you know, my, toxic marriage.

It was [00:30:00] the, it was the same parts that as a child I wasn't allowed to have a voice. There were all these things that I couldn't say and only things that I could say. So those parts of me got squished and quieted so, so young. So, and so then it's like, well, I, I can have compassion on myself.

Why I chose a partner who treated me bad, who didn't know how to treat, doesn't really know how to treat better. And doesn't know how to get help himself. You know, it makes sense. And it becomes that much easier to validate those parts of ourself. And then have compassion and then heal when you're not swimming in the emotion.

I think that's a really good way

Speaker: to put it. We can so easily jump to that critical voice, that, that judgment that's like, I shouldn't be feeling this. I'm 35, 45, 55 years old. Like I shouldn't be having these fears. These are irrational. And we just berate ourselves for having these feelings when, when that's not offering any sort of healing,

[00:31:00] compassion, compassion leads to healing. Judgment just leads to stagnation or being stuck in that, belief or that fear. But all of these parts of us came online at very specific points in our life when they had to create a solution because nobody was coming to help them nobody was comforting them nobody was telling them that they are perfect exactly the way that they are.

So they've all created these maladaptive solutions to problems.

Speaker 3: And

Speaker: so when the problem happens in our now, in our adult life, that part is like, I have the solution.

I know that it's not safe to use our voice, so I'm going to just squash that down and then that's better than. Using our voice and rocking the boat and being unsafe even though this might be happening in a in a healthy relationship that you're in now Right and that part of you might be still operating from the abusive relationship from your childhood

Speaker 3: Yeah,

Speaker: so they just don't know these parts don't know that we've [00:32:00] grown up They don't know that they don't have to be the one to to be the parent They need someone to come in and be like honey.

I see you I know this is your solution and I have so many new solutions. We're going to use one of these solutions. Watch how cool this solution is. Yeah.

Speaker 2: I love my particular therapist. I don't, I, I don't know a ton about how other people practice parts therapy. I've talked a little bit, but I guess there's all kinds of different ways and there's a lot of room for kind of creativity.

But one, one thing I really love is that when we work with a part, we always start with a protector and say, okay, well, what is this? Hi, you know, protector. Could you just take a seat for a minute and let the self come in or with a little one and, we feel the feeling we had go, what do you need?

And then at the end, once we've, once we've felt the feeling and integrated it and hopefully, um, at the end, we say she leads me. She kind of has led me through this a lot, but we [00:33:00] say to the protector sometimes, would you like to do a different job? Like we don't, you know, the self is here.

I don't need you to distract me or we don't have to disassociate. Because now we've got this and look at, you know, so what would you like to do? And so I, and I think I love this because it's so creative and weird. It's just like, But you're sitting and you're listening to yourself and you're just listening to the parts of you that want to do something different.

And like most of the time, my producer is exhausted, like, yes, I have been doing this for years, years and years and years, and nobody listens to me. And you know, and it's always that, it's always this energy that's just like, Oh my God, it's too much. And then we're like, chill out. Can you sit down , I've got this.

And then we come back and say, would you like to do something else? And sometimes it's like been like, yeah, I'd love to paint. And so like, uh, so as a exercise in trusting myself and learning, I, like I paint or I want to sing. So every day I just make sure I, I, there's some song and I'm in, whether I'm in the car or [00:34:00] house or wherever I am, that I can just sing it out.

Speaker 3: And it's

Speaker 2: just like a ways to like engage those, those songs. Those childlike parts of you that got squished or became really busy protecting you and not being a child. All those things as an adult still feel really good. I still, I love to paint and I love to get messy. Or I just, I'm gonna sing, or I'm gonna be really playful, and maybe that's playing with my kids in a really silly way, or making up a song, or whatever it is. Sometimes it's like, oh, I just, I kind of really want to read this poem, or whatever it is.

You know, because I think sometimes when we say self care, it's like, Oh, I've got to put on a face mask or paint my nails. Even if it's not someone who likes to do that, or I've got to, You know, sit in the bathtub with a wine, even if maybe drinking's not a great idea for me right now.

Like there, it's, you know, we have this pressure of self care and it's just like, man, it's just, it's just taking those moments and you listen. And I, I like, I love having a therapist that works me through this because it's hard for me still to, to sit down and do that on my own regularly. And [00:35:00] then it's just like, I, oh, I feel empowered.

I feel more in touch with myself. I feel empowered. I feel empowered. I feel empowered. I keep thinking about the mom that I was as a new mom. There's so, there's, it's so hard to be a new mom. And there's a lot of dialogue about that. Lots of women, lots of moms speaking up, changing the narrative of, of being a selfless mom.

And I was a, I was a complete martyr, selfless mom for such a long time. And that's what was modeled to me. And I, my mom is fantastic and I love her and she's just such a, such a great woman. Um, but I, like, I just knew, I grew up knowing selfless mom, that when you're my mom, that's when you become selfless.

I didn't have children until I was older because I, I didn't want to be selfless when I wanted to travel and I wanted to do other things. , and now I'm the, I S it's the opposite. It's, it's be self, a self full mom, beef, full mom. of yourself [00:36:00] and all the things that make up yourself. It's where it's all the things that feel really good.

We all want to feel free and we all want to feel joy and we all want to feel peace. We want excitement. We want no drama. We want, you know, there's all these different things that different just day to day that we want. And if you're not listening to yourself and you're not filling up with yourself, then you can't.

You don't have anything to offer, like you talked about your cup being full.

the bare bones of a person to offer. And that's not fulfilling as a, as a child to receive that as a friend, you know, like I remember being, when I was in my toxic relationship and just in the thick of it and it was so hard, but I didn't want to talk about the heart. I wasn't very honest about everything, cause if I said things out loud to my friends, I, then I would have to maybe Be held accountable to like, well, what are you going to do?

That's [00:37:00] not okay, Taj. You know, that's, I would, I would have heard that. And so I, I was purposely very, you know, a lot of vague and a lot of whatever. But I remember I just would talk and chat every chance I got because in part, and I thought, oh, it's cause I'm at home and I'm a mom and I don't have the outlet.

But I, when I looked back, I was like, that's, I needed like substance. I needed a therapist. I needed, or a life coach. I needed somebody where I could come in. He was just supporting me.

And that's when I, that's what I always tell people if they're asking me, I like therapy or what it should I, is it good? You know, you always talk about it. It's good. I'm like, man, I always, I guess I paid her, but I have this person in my corner always. Yeah, and she will be on she if I say something that's just, you know, a little bonkers, she's gonna let's be curious about that.

So she's, she's still holding me to what I'm saying, but in a very gentle way, but no matter what, she is there to support my growth, help me learn to support my body. And I think that, that [00:38:00] is, that is a huge, a huge necessary thing.

You need someone who is, who is, who can be in your corner without. And I know a lot of people have relationships like, yeah, I can talk to this person or that person, but they're not, they're not really in your corner because maybe they've got their own stuff.

Speaker: Yeah. Well, the energy is that I don't have to take care of my therapist. Yeah. I can just show up and be, be held, be taken care of, be nurtured, be heard, be listened to, like all of these things where In a friendship, even, even a healthy friendship, there's a give and take.

I share a little bit and then I want to hear about you, but in the therapist or the coach relationship, like a good therapist or coach, it's about you. And we, as the provider, the practitioner, are there to help you find clarity about you in a very gentle, nonjudgmental way. So, For women specifically who don't know how to [00:39:00] receive, therapy and coaching can be really hard because that's a, that is a relationship where you are just receiving.

You are just the one who doesn't have to rescue, doesn't have to put your needs last. So it can feel a little bit scary to even take up space in that type of situation.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's big. It is so hard to take up space, even if you know it, like I know it, that I'm supposed to take up space and that I'm allowed to, but it's different than giving myself permission and actually doing it on a regular basis.

Speaker: Yeah, yeah, this just happened to me the other night with my partner where I went to bed before him, and he was reading out in the other room and I was having a lot of anxiety just like hit me out of the blue. And And I couldn't sleep and I was fighting myself and asking for him to come and comfort me or come and be with me, help me co regulate.

I was like, no, I need to do this myself. I don't want to take up space. Right. And this is all like childhood stuff. That was not even [00:40:00] consciously. that I was thinking of consciously, but it was really preventing me from taking the action of being like, can you actually come here? I need a hug or whatever I needed from him at that moment.

But we're so programmed, especially as women that we are the ones giving, we're not the ones taking, we don't need to take up space. We don't need to have needs. Right. And that's such, it's such a disservice to us as women and to the people that we are in relationship with, because to your point about, The filling of the cup and being full of yourself so that you can give yourself to other people.

We're really robbing the people that we're in relationship with. If we are functioning on a level that's, that's depleted all of the time, because they're not getting to experience the authentic us. They're not getting to experience our self energy, that playful, creative, calm, confident person.

They're experiencing the burnt out part of us that's [00:41:00] operating out of survival, which is not good for us or them. That's not like, there's no. There's no beneficial outcome there, but we have to get familiar with the part of us that thinks that they're doing the right thing, that thinks that being burnt out is the solution because of whatever wounding comes from is creating that.

Right.

Speaker 2: You know, I saw, I love TikTok. I love TikTok more than Netflix. Um, and I, it's kind of a problem. Um, but I saw this video where this woman, she did, she did such a fantastic job. Showing she's a mom and she, she dressed a part of like each hat that she wears as a mom and a woman, as a wife and friend and, and just a person.

And, and so they're each talking to each other like, okay, what have we got going on? We've got, you know, we've got the planner, we've got the, you know, the mom that has to coordinate everything. We've got the mom who's going to cook the food and we've got the mom that's getting the kids, we've got the wife.

And then, you Mom that's like, well, okay, self care, [00:42:00] we need to put that in. And, and she, the whole point was that none of the other of herselves recognized that that was even important. And it was like, you're last basically. And I saw that and I was like, gosh, that's so spot on.

Not just as a mom, but as a woman. And a person, I think that way. And then it, I had seen it and I thought about it. And then I think it was the next week in therapy. And my, we're talking to my therapist, we did parts work and, and we go, and we were talking and I'm, I'm saying all this and she was like, I hear all these shoulds like you're, you know, what you're saying that you're conflicted about your, you should do, cause for this person and for this person.

So, but what is, what about you? You know, you're rescuing them. Why don't you rescue yourself here? What is yourself really want? And I, that just hit me. I mean, it was like, I felt like I got punched in the gut. It was just like, whoa. And I could, and it's like, in that moment I could see.

years of me rescuing everyone [00:43:00] else and my, my self comes last. And then of course, at the end of the day, you're tired and I don't have the energy or the capacity to rescue myself anymore. At a certain point in the night, all that shuts off and and I really thought about that and it mirrored a really important theme for me that I realized in my marriage, you know, I was, I was cheated on, I was treated poorly, I was abused and I still kept what, you know, what can I do? What can I do?

And, It took me a while to forgive and myself and have compassion and realize like I was surviving and that's, I had to do these things to survive. And I don't have to judge myself for that. But I also in my most recent relationship. There were some aspects where he did not protect my love like I wanted him to and like he should have and, and I thought, I'm like thinking of that relationship and thinking of my marriage and thinking just in general, like I'm, and I, I said this to a [00:44:00] friend, I said, I am so loyal.

I am so loyal. I deserve someone who is that loyal to me. And she said, can you be loyal to yourself? Yes, I can. It's going to take a little while, but that the idea that when you say no to yourself or somebody else, you're, you're being loyal to them.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker 2: And that means you're quieting yourself.

You're not rescuing yourself. You're shooting

Speaker 3: and

Speaker 2: nobody wants to be, you know, like even, I think even in my toxic marriage, I think he, there was a part of him that could go. I don't like this. I don't like that. Tosh sheds everywhere and rescues everywhere. I wish she'd kind of choose herself sometimes, of course, then there was other parts of him that was like, you can't choose yourself.

You've got to choose me. But there, I think even, even he, someone who was like mentally unhealthy could recognize that that's not a good way to be in someone else. And yeah, I'm, so [00:45:00] this, that's what I'm transitioning to in my thinking even is how do I rescue myself? If I catch myself shitting, then I know I'm not paying attention to a part of me and there's a part of me that is the reason you feel torn when you're, when you're shitting.

is because you know that what's best for, there's a part of you that knows that what's best for you is not what you're about to do.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker 2: And Dr. Becky, who I love, obviously, I'm going to reference her again. She said I get to have things.

in my life, even if it inconveniences others, even if they don't like it, whether that's my kid, she uses the examples of this, my kid, I get to decide what we're having for dinner. And it's something I like, and they can, deal with it. That's part of life is learning how to deal with disappointment.

Yeah. Or, or if it's, I'm going to take space for me and my partner wants space for him or her, I get to take it for me right now. And I get to, I deserve that. And I will claim it. And a person who's doing that regularly, they have space for someone else. [00:46:00] They have a clear space because it's clearly lined with boundaries.

This is your space that you get to occupy. You don't get to, there is a certain point where you don't get to go. And that breeds a healthier, more intimate connection than having wishy washy boundaries and just getting walked all over and being that selfless, like, shell of a person or mom

Speaker: or

Speaker 2: wife or partner, whatever your, whatever relationship you're talking about.

Speaker: Yeah, because one of the biggest kickers of what you just said is if we aren't loyal to ourselves, if we aren't respecting ourselves, if we aren't choosing ourselves, if we aren't making time for ourselves, we are going to continue to attract the people who do the same thing, who aren't loyal, who aren't choosing us, who aren't respecting us, who don't love us, who don't make time for us, because our internal belief has to, has to match our external circumstance.

So if I don't believe that I am worthy of time [00:47:00] to myself, right, I'm, I'm not going to attract the guy who's like, honey, you take some time, you deserve this, or I'm going to fight it. And then that's going to cause friction in the relationship. And then the relationship is going to unravel. So to attract a healthy partnership, you have to create the healthy relationship with yourself That has to be the foundation because those internal beliefs are going to drive your behavior.

They're going to drive your choices and you are going to keep spinning in that burnt out, rescuing, attracting emotionally unavailable people. And it's not going to be fulfilling. And the good news is for, for any woman listening, who's like, shit, I am the rescuer. I rescue everybody. I take care of everybody.

The good news is you have that skill. You already know how to do it. So you just need to redirect who you're doing it to. You just need to turn that energy into how can [00:48:00] I take care of myself the way that I would take care of my best friend in this situation, the way that I would take care of my kid in this situation.

Speaker 2: For me, one aspect that's a common denominator in my relationships is, that something I learned in childhood, which was to not, be truthful about what's really happening.

You know, not say, Whoa, this is a problem. I do not morally or ethically or on any level agree with what is happening. You know, I couldn't say that as a child when my dad was, you know, talking bad about to my mom. I couldn't step in and say that. It was, it was terrifying. He was very, had a very intimidating, terrifying presence, especially to a little, a little kid.

And I, so I didn't learn, I learned not to speak up. And I learned to ignore and kind of, uh, gloss over those flags. So guess what I've done in all my relationships. I've glossed over the red flags and I've justified them. And that's, I know, that's a lot of [00:49:00] people do that. But I have to be able to tell myself the truth. Even when it hurts and even when it means, well, I might not get to play with a shiny toy.

If I'm truthful, I might not get to have the good of this relationship. If I'm really honest about what's happening and that, that's exactly what you said, I think is exactly spot on. When people say, Oh, I keep repeating it. Why do I keep attracting a man that lies to me?

Well. Let's look at that. Let's be curious about why that is. And when, when we, when I was curious about it with my therapist, we discovered that, well, I lie to myself. And , even though that it seems, maybe it sounds kind of harsh, it actually is very empowering and freeing because it's like, oh, well that is, you know, honesty is a big value of mine.

I want to grow in that and I can grow in that. And I just, I, it's a lot of, I cans instead of why does this keep happening to me or I keep attracting the same person. It's like, you can choose to find fault and use judgment and say, Oh, I'm a bad person or I [00:50:00] just, I have bad luck with men or men or crap or whatever, but the truth is, I know how to be honest in a lot of ways and I can be, and I can, I can say hard truths.

I can do that more. I can learn that more. I can dig a little deeper. I can. I can do that. It's very doable.

Speaker: It's all skills. We're just learning new skills, right? We've been operating with one toolbox and now we're learning how to use our new tools. And that's having the clarity is the first step to being able to recognize these tools aren't working anymore and I've been doing this for 30 years and now I need to, to learn something new and we resist the learning curve part,

we resist. Yeah, of course. Of course. Of all the things that we've kind of touched on, what would be the one takeaway that you really want women to hear who are maybe in a relationship that they, they know, on some level that they shouldn't, shouldn't be in or are being mistreated? What do you [00:51:00] want them to know?

Speaker 2: I want them to know that

You might feel like you are locked down in a cage, but

that cage is not what it seems. You have, you have the tools right now to break out. That doesn't mean right this second, blow up your life. Leaving, a toxic relationship can be very scary. It is scary. It can also be very dangerous. So talk to people that you trust, make a plan and find, and find a way out.

It's scary when you feel like there are so many uncertainties, but it's also, it is really beautiful to watch it unravel. Like when I look back, and if I were to tell the really specifics of my story, it's just what it needed to be.

Speaker 2: And I, there were moments that were super hard and, where I [00:52:00] just was overcome with different feelings but what we know about feelings is that they are temporary. You can have a really, really huge feeling and it feels like that will consume you. And it might consume you, but those feelings only consume us if we really feel them for 10 seconds, 30 seconds.

You know, when you, you're building up and you need to have a big cry and you finally let it loose. You don't cry for days. I mean, even in extreme grief, we don't cry nonstop for days. We cry in spurts, we have feelings in spurts and that's okay. And they were all, they're all temporary.

And you know, the sun's going to come up, the sun's going to go down. We're going to have morning. We're going to have at noon. We're going to have night. You will make it one moment to the next, no matter what's happening. Look what you're already making it through. Maybe you're being hit or maybe you're being, you're degraded in every way.

There's, there's all kinds of ways that we're treated poorly. You're already enduring it. What if you just [00:53:00] endure some hard to get on the other side?

Speaker 3: Is it a different type of hard?

Speaker 2: Yeah, and that kind of hard, oh man, it's so worth it. Yeah. It's so worth it. Three, four years ago, I thought I could not imagine my life without that relationship and in what felt like safety.

It was a misnomer. That was not safe. It was not safe in any way for me, but it was familiar and it felt like it was safe. But little by little, I have all the things that I wanted, that I thought, Oh, I won't have enough support with my kid. I won't have enough support with my heart.

Can I do it financially? Can I do it? It's. It's all, I have all of that. And not because I'm some special person. I am just a person. And the world is unraveling for all of us. It is moving so that we can have the things that we want. Because that's what we're here for. I had, I've lived in this house.

For five years this month or next month. [00:54:00] And the whole time there's this rosebush that's been out back. And I just thought, oh, it's, it was hanging in there, but not really doing anything. I never saw it bloom. And you know, I've lived here five years. I lived here during a toxic relationship in the whole time I was getting out of it.

I lived here and this spring, it bloomed for the first time. And it is, it's this, these beautiful tea roses, they're pink and they have the, the tea roses are the kind that have the tons of petals and they smell delicious. And I thought, yes. I made, I, I had to cut off, you know, I had to trim off the toxic things that were, that were choking me in every way.

I trimmed that off, I watered, let nature do its thing, and some years you get to bloom, and finally I get to bloom. My, this, my rosebush gets to bloom, and it's, it's such a metaphor for the transformation back to life. Cause I was dying and now I'm coming, I'm coming back to life. And [00:55:00] so if you're still in the dying part where you know that your, your relationship is, you know, deadly and fatal in one way or another, or all the ways, maybe it, it won't always feel like that.

Speaker: Oh, so well said. Thank you. Thank you for that message. At the end of these episodes, I also pull an Oracle card to offer a message to the listeners. Are you familiar with Oracle cards?

Speaker 2: A little bit.

Speaker: Okay. So I, I always ask the guests to help me choose a card on behalf of the listeners. We shuffle and we see which one comes out or we see which one you feel we should stop on.

And then I'll read from the book, what the message is and listeners can take it. They can leave it. They can see how it resonates. Maybe it sparks a new train of thinking. It's just a way to sort of help you anchor in your growth for this week. Okay. So. Go ahead and close your eyes for me and just start by taking a deep breath into the body.

I'm going to start to [00:56:00] shuffle the deck. We're just going to ask the deck, what is the message that is intended for all of the women listening today? And whenever you feel like the shuffle is complete, just tell me when to stop.

Stop. Okay, so we got pick up your mess. Which for those of you not watching the video, it looks like a messy bedroom, maybe. I think a little abstract, but regardless, let me find the message in the book here and I'll read it out loud.

Pick up your mess shows you when it's time to own your shit. Take responsibility and clean up your mess. Repair your mistakes. Apologize. Personal accountability is the pathway to healing and freedom. No need to judge yourself for making a mess in the first place. Life is messy. You're not a bad person because you got it wrong, misunderstood, or made a mistake.

Pick Up Your Mess provides the opportunity to find lost treasures, [00:57:00] to repair what was broken, to reconnect to things that are hidden in the clutter. Chop chop, it's time to get started, one little piece at a time.

Speaker 2: Oh, I like that.

Speaker: Love it. Yeah, it's exactly what we talked about.

Speaker 2: Yeah,

Speaker: chop chop. As always. Uh, well Taj, thank you so much again for sharing your story and your wisdom and your insight.

I hope that, that the women listening can something, something landed for them as like a gem from this episode that I get, I get feedback all the time from, from clients that come in from the podcast or just people who ride in and are like, your guests are amazing. And just listening to their vulnerability makes me feel more strong.

Like I can do it too. So this, this means more than you will know, most likely in how it's going to impact all the women listening. So thank you.

Speaker 2: I hope so. I hope we're all, you know, we all need that connection and to hear that we're not alone. That makes, that means everything.

Speaker: Oh, good. Well, until next time.

​

[00:58:00]

I hope you enjoyed the episode as much as I did. Taj was so vulnerable and wonderful and courageous and sharing her story and how she overcame those objections, that fear that she was feeling. So I hope that gave you some inspiration, some insight, if you are in a similar situation. Just to recap, we talked about

how she was able to really reclaim her energy and her capacity to care for her child and herself and her life. After the energy was no longer being drained from her by her ex. And how that was really something that she wasn't expecting when she was trying to weigh the options of staying or leaving.

We talked about how she really tended to her nervous system and why that's so important to do as part of your emotional healing process. We talked about finding compassion. We talked about how she used internal family systems or parts work

to really start to bring some understanding and separation from herself and her parts to be able to offer herself that [00:59:00] curiosity and compassion. And we talk a lot about stepping out of the rescuer role sans the gilts. I know that leaving these types of relationships or thinking about leaving can be really scary.

And I know on the other side that there's a lot of important work that we have to do. Uh, in order to reclaim our trust, reclaim our self esteem. So I want to encourage you to go back to episode 40, it's called finding self love and trust in yourself so that you can have healthy relationships and build yourself esteem with EFT tapping. And in that episode, I talk all about how we can build trust, build our self-esteem and then how you can use this really beautiful, nervous system regulation tool called EFT tapping.

So check out that episode, stay tuned for next week for our next episode. And I am so happy that you were here. Here until next time.