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Are you ready for a logging extravaganza
that we'll have you check in your log

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book for accuracy while learning how to
really understand the regs around logging.

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Then you're going to love today's
episode of the student pilot cast.

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Logging for mere mortals.

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Welcome back SPC listeners.

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I'm pumped to be back with a special
episode of the student pilot cast during

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one of our recent recording sessions
for beyond the check ride segment.

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Kent.

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And I realize that we had done
one that went way beyond an hour.

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As we dove into a bunch
of areas of logging.

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Clearly.

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We could have broken that topic
up into smaller bite sized pieces.

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But because we're either lazy, too busy,
or we just love talking about flying, even

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when it's mostly about the regulations
we decided to just let it ride.

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Now I did manage to edit it down to just
over an hour, but that's still too long.

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To have it as just a segment.

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So we'll forgo the training flight today.

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To get this valuable information out.

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Hope you enjoy it.

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And also that you get some
good information out of it.

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We've already discussed some
limitations that we didn't know about

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in ForeFlight since we recorded this.

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We cover briefly how to do some of
the logging and how you can do some

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of it in ForeFlight it wasn't mostly
about ForeFlight it's mostly about, you

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know, how you logged no matter how you
do it, but we did mention ForeFlight

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and showed ForeFlight a little bit.

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If you're looking at the
video version of this, so.

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See, if you can run
across anything like that.

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And let us know about it.

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And we may do a follow-up
to talk about that as well.

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Even better though.

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What did we forget?

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Or what did we get wrong?

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In this beyond the checkride segment.

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Uh, reach out to us via
email@billatstudentpilotcast.com or you

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can use the contact form on the website
if you prefer, but reach out to us and

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let us know your, take your stories
or anything that you think we may have

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gotten wrong or should have said better.

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By the way.

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The video version of this segment
is already published on YouTube.

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Uh, published it a little bit earlier.

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Today.

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And you might want to go check
that out in this case because

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Kent will be sharing some visuals.

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To help go through the regs as, as well
as some of the interpretations and as

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well as using ForeFlight a little bit,
like I said, so the video version of

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this could actually prove pretty helpful.

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You can go to our YouTube channel to.

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Find it it's at youtube.com/at
student pilot cast.

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Or you can just search for
student pilot cast or student

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pilot cast logging on YouTube.

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There'll also be a link in the show notes.

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So lots of ways to find the videos.

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So don't forget to go check it out.

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While you're there.

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Why don't you hit subscribe on our
tiny fledgling YouTube channel as well.

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So, thanks for always listening
and thanks for watching.

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And enjoy.

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So let's get right to
it beyond the checkride.

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Logging flight time explained.

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All right.

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Welcome back everybody to another
segment of beyond the check ride.

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I'm here again, as usual with Ken Shook.

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How you doing Kent?

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Excellent.

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Good.

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always a good day when
I can talk about flying.

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Always is always is.

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So I know I introduced these segments,
a few episodes ago, and we're

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going to continue to release those.

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As I said, as segments within the student
pilot cast, but I wanted to make a comment

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on it today, just to kind of set the
stage a little more for, you know, what

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these are all about, we certainly don't
want to give the impression that these

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are, you know, sort of the gospel truth
about how you do any of these things

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and they're certainly not comprehensive.

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In what we're covering, we're mostly
wanting to bring these topics up because,

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uh, especially Kent and a little bit me,
we've had some experience in aviation and,

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we've found some things that we've learned
over time that certainly aren't in.

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The ACS or what used to be the PTS and
they don't, they aren't required knowledge

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to get a certificate or a rating or,
you know, things like that, but they

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are practically important knowledge.

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And these are things that we've
learned since our check rides.

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And, we're kind of trying to
bring up that question and

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disseminate the information so that.

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We can start a discussion in the
overall community about these things.

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And so we always want to hear feedback.

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I know that we've harped
on that quite a bit.

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We always want to get feedback from you.

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We want to hear stories about
how you've learned things

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beyond your own check rides.

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And this is really to
open up the conversation.

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We're going to talk about
our experiences, our stories.

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the things that we've run into
and so on, and we want everyone

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to add to that conversation.

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Anything to add to that, Kent?

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I just wanted to make sure
we were setting the stage.

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Yeah, that sounds great.

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And, you know, I hope that eventually
we'll have enough feedback that we can

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even have a, a segment within a segment
where we go through feedback every time

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and, and talk about it a little more.

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Like I said, I like to talk about
flying, so just a, another way to do

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it and to expand the size of our little
circle around the fire at the hangar.

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Right.

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That's right.

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That's right.

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Cool.

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So with that being said, what
topic have you got for us today?

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Well, this time, kind of the overarching
thing will be the, uh, regulations.

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and within that we're going to
look at one that I have seen so

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many online arguments and confusion
about, and that is logging time.

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I'm, I'm sure you've seen an argument
or two over that in your day.

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Oh, for sure.

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So, you know, over the years I've,
I've actually gotten to the point where

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The regulations actually make sense
to me, don't tell the FAA or they'll

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probably revoke my medical for being
crazy or something like that, but, um,

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There's gotta be something
wrong with you, right?

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yes, yes, and one of the people that I, I
learned a lot from was a guy by the name

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of Ron Levy, who, uh, was a participant
in many of those arguments ages ago, But

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he actually taught a class at a college.

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I can't remember where it was,
but, he was out in Maryland.

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So somewhere out in that vicinity, he was,
uh, a guy who taught a college class in

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aviation law, so knew what he was talking
about, always backed up his statements.

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And then by following all the
references that he provided, I

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learned a lot about it myself.

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So, I've learned from those online
discussions that I've had quite a bit.

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really it's all about going and
finding references for your position.

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And, so sometimes I will learn
that I was right and sometimes

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I'll learn that I was wrong.

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And, um,

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It's all still learning, right?

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exactly.

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So what are some of the big, the big
issues that, I mean, the obvious one is,

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you know, logging PIC when you're doing
instrument practice, but we'll get it.

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We'll hold off on that one for a second.

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Hopefully, are there any other big
logging issues that you run into?

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Well, there's a couple.

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There is the can more than one person
log PIC at the same time, or even

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log the time at all at the same time.

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The other one is Okay, I'm going
up with an instructor, and I'm

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getting my complex endorsement.

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How do I log that?

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So I

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Right?

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Right?

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Can you, can you log PIC when you
don't have, a high performance

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endorsement, for example, or.

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Sure.

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Something along those lines
in a high performance.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Good question.

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I think I know the answer to that

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actually,

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the, the first thing here is,
don't try to make it make sense.

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If you try to make it make sense, right
off the bat, you'll say, what on earth

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is going on, and it won't make any sense.

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So,

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federal regulations after

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yes, yes, if you sit back and wait until
the end, hopefully by the time we're

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done tonight, then it will make sense.

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so the, I mean, the first.

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thing to understand is that to
the FAA, logging PIC Being the PIC

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are completely separate things.

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when I say being the PIC, we'll
also use the term acting as the PIC.

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That doesn't mean acting like you're
not really a acting PIC as the

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person who is being or acting as the
pilot in command of the aircraft.

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There is always one and only one pilot
in command of an aircraft, period.

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End of story.

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However, there are times when you
can have, I'll put an asterisk

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on the first one here, but zero
up to three people logging PIC.

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So, Don't let me forget that.

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We'll, uh, we'll cover what
those are here at the end, and

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it'll make a little more sense.

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so first thing, let's talk about how
you can look this stuff up on your own.

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And in fact, I will see if I
could share my screen here.

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All right.

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So here in my browser window,
you'll see, we have gone to ecfr.

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gov.

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So electronic code of federal regulations.

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And what we're looking for here
is title 14 aeronautics and space.

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So let's click on that.

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And this is an awful lot of stuff because
this is everything dealing with the

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FAA and NASA and all kinds of things.

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So.

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Pretty much everything that you're
going to want in terms of aviation

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regulations is going to be in this
first chapter here, Chapter 1.

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So I'll expand that.

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And for logging stuff, One of the things
that you should have learned right away

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as a student pilot is that anything
that depends on who the pilot is, is 61.

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And then general operating
rules are Part 91, so.

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Let's go to Subchapter D
here, where Part 61 is.

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Now, there's a difference
between whether you click on

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Part 61 or the title over here.

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So if you click on the left,
you'll get the Table of Contents.

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If you click on the right,
you'll get the entire part.

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And that is generally what I do,
so let's go ahead and do that.

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So here we go.

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This is part 61.

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Everything in part 61.

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Now, I happen to know that it's
6151 is what we're looking for.

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But, you can also just do
a quick find for logging.

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So, you can see C, D, and E there.

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I'm going to scroll back up.

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So, there we go.

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6151, Pilot Logbooks.

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So which questions shall
we address first here?

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well, let's do the scenario where
let's say you just got your private

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pilot certificate and you want to
add on something like a complex

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or high performance endorsement.

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Yep.

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That's a good one.

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Good, simple one.

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now this is all, we're
talking PIC right now.

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So 6151E is where we talk about PIC.

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So logging pilot and command flight time.

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A sport, recreational, private, commercial
or airline transport pilot may log

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pilot in command time for flights.

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And this is the one that really
matters here right off the bat, except

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when logging flight time under 61
1 59 C, when the pilot is the sole

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manipulator of the controls of an
aircraft for which the pilot is rated

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or has sport pilot privileges for that
category and class of aircraft if the

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aircraft class rating is appropriate.

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So.

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That's a mouthful.

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let's pick that apart.

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So, except when logging
flight time under 61159C.

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I happen to know that that is all about
the, what's called a second in command

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professional development program.

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So, that's something that
Part 135 operators can use, if

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they have the op spec for it.

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and it, changes things a little bit.

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So if you're part of one of those SIC
PDPs, kind of skip everything we're

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going to tell you because the SIC
PDP takes precedence over basically

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all of the other logging rules.

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Now, if you don't already know
that, well, what do you need to do?

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You need to go and look
at what 61159C says.

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00:14:03,046 --> 00:14:05,786
So let's go ahead and
click on that and do that.

238
00:14:05,796 --> 00:14:09,286
And you can see when you click on it,
this website highlights the section.

239
00:14:10,306 --> 00:14:14,256
A commercial pilot may log second in
command pilot time toward the aeronautical

240
00:14:14,256 --> 00:14:17,866
experience requirements of paragraph
A of this section, blah, blah, blah.

241
00:14:18,826 --> 00:14:22,056
Employed by a part one
19 certificate holder.

242
00:14:22,806 --> 00:14:26,926
Authorized to conduct operations
under part 135 of this chapter,

243
00:14:27,386 --> 00:14:28,896
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

244
00:14:28,896 --> 00:14:35,076
So none of that is applicable to
the scenario that we're in here.

245
00:14:35,076 --> 00:14:37,196
So, you don't need to read.

246
00:14:37,711 --> 00:14:39,701
These little subsections at all.

247
00:14:40,021 --> 00:14:42,421
this just simply isn't applicable.

248
00:14:44,601 --> 00:14:51,791
so that whole exception that you
read in a 6151E, it just doesn't

249
00:14:51,791 --> 00:14:54,381
pertain to our scenario anymore.

250
00:14:54,681 --> 00:14:56,571
They're not, uh, they're
not in one of those.

251
00:14:57,571 --> 00:14:58,231
programs.

252
00:14:58,481 --> 00:14:59,341
exactly.

253
00:14:59,511 --> 00:15:02,381
So now I need to find it again.

254
00:15:02,551 --> 00:15:02,961
Okay.

255
00:15:02,971 --> 00:15:03,641
So here we are.

256
00:15:03,641 --> 00:15:05,011
6151 E.

257
00:15:05,021 --> 00:15:07,731
So this exception here.

258
00:15:08,681 --> 00:15:09,741
does not apply.

259
00:15:10,711 --> 00:15:14,081
Now let's pick apart the rest of this.

260
00:15:14,731 --> 00:15:19,911
There's this or, or has sport
pilot privileges, blah, blah, blah.

261
00:15:20,111 --> 00:15:23,151
We're talking about somebody who just
got their private pilot certificate.

262
00:15:23,151 --> 00:15:28,581
So that means this whole
section is irrelevant as well.

263
00:15:29,341 --> 00:15:29,621
Yep.

264
00:15:29,741 --> 00:15:30,241
Skip on

265
00:15:30,366 --> 00:15:35,186
So what that means is that effectively
our person who is just a private pilot,

266
00:15:35,976 --> 00:15:40,816
you know, they're, they're working on
some flight training all under part 91.

267
00:15:41,436 --> 00:15:46,001
So, When the pilot is the sole
manipulator of the controls of an

268
00:15:46,011 --> 00:15:49,691
aircraft for which the pilot is rated.

269
00:15:50,851 --> 00:15:53,551
Uh, Oh, what does that mean?

270
00:15:55,951 --> 00:16:00,281
Here's something that you'll
find throughout the regulations.

271
00:16:00,831 --> 00:16:04,881
They don't leave a whole lot of
ambiguity in the regulations.

272
00:16:05,511 --> 00:16:12,231
So let's Let's see if we can
find out, what does rated mean?

273
00:16:13,071 --> 00:16:18,231
And where we find that is you can always
kind of peel the onion on this stuff.

274
00:16:18,731 --> 00:16:22,391
So, definitions relative to part 61.

275
00:16:23,001 --> 00:16:27,581
only are always going to be up in 61.

276
00:16:27,601 --> 00:16:28,021
1.

277
00:16:28,031 --> 00:16:32,361
So if we scroll way back up to the
top, it actually isn't completely

278
00:16:32,361 --> 00:16:36,451
at the top because there are a
couple of special federal aviation

279
00:16:36,451 --> 00:16:38,071
regulations up here, but here we go.

280
00:16:39,541 --> 00:16:41,111
Applicability and definitions.

281
00:16:41,131 --> 00:16:44,081
That's what you'll find at in the 0.

282
00:16:44,091 --> 00:16:46,551
1 of pretty much every part.

283
00:16:47,581 --> 00:16:53,591
So what we want to look up here
is look up rated or rating.

284
00:16:55,406 --> 00:16:56,536
It's not here, right?

285
00:16:58,776 --> 00:17:00,866
So next, let's peel the onion.

286
00:17:00,866 --> 00:17:03,156
Let's go out to Subchapter D, Airmen.

287
00:17:04,096 --> 00:17:09,786
Well, nothing really there, because
the first part in Subchapter D is this

288
00:17:09,786 --> 00:17:12,766
flight simulation training device, etc.

289
00:17:12,766 --> 00:17:14,316
That's not really applicable.

290
00:17:15,026 --> 00:17:17,996
So, peel the onion again.

291
00:17:19,021 --> 00:17:22,991
And you know, I must have clicked
on something there that I didn't

292
00:17:22,991 --> 00:17:26,111
really mean to because this is
what I wanted to be able to see.

293
00:17:26,531 --> 00:17:30,051
We're going to back all
the way out to Part 1.

294
00:17:30,211 --> 00:17:32,341
Definitions and Abbreviations.

295
00:17:32,981 --> 00:17:37,151
And this is applicable to
all of the regulations.

296
00:17:37,891 --> 00:17:44,641
So now let's go down We're
looking for rated or rating now.

297
00:17:45,226 --> 00:17:51,746
Let me, okay, public aircraft, you
can see some of this is OEI power.

298
00:17:51,746 --> 00:17:54,666
Yeah, a lot of, a lot of this
stuff is just stuff that is.

299
00:17:55,036 --> 00:18:03,156
Probably in the certification regulations,
but right here rating means a statement

300
00:18:03,156 --> 00:18:08,156
that is part of a certificate sets
forth special conditions privileges or

301
00:18:08,156 --> 00:18:15,756
limitations so Rating in the context
of are you rated for an aircraft?

302
00:18:16,406 --> 00:18:21,006
means something that is part of a
certificate your pilot certificate When

303
00:18:21,006 --> 00:18:24,666
you get your complex endorsement, is
it printed on your pilot certificate?

304
00:18:26,486 --> 00:18:30,606
Nope, and it's it's kind of you
know, they give it away in the naming

305
00:18:30,886 --> 00:18:33,936
of You know complex endorsement.

306
00:18:34,181 --> 00:18:34,681
Yeah.

307
00:18:35,106 --> 00:18:36,126
It's an endorsement.

308
00:18:36,126 --> 00:18:37,006
It's not a rating

309
00:18:37,401 --> 00:18:37,721
yep.

310
00:18:37,736 --> 00:18:43,001
So the things that get printed on
your pilot certificate like Airplane

311
00:18:43,001 --> 00:18:49,261
Single Engine Land or Instrument
Airplane, those are ratings and

312
00:18:49,451 --> 00:18:51,391
the endorsements are not ratings.

313
00:18:52,181 --> 00:18:57,701
So, now that we've figured out
what the rating part means, let's

314
00:18:57,711 --> 00:19:00,141
jump back here into Part 61.

315
00:19:01,681 --> 00:19:03,581
Gonna have to scroll down again.

316
00:19:05,411 --> 00:19:12,461
Okay, so the way we read this now is,
we can pretty much start right here.

317
00:19:12,471 --> 00:19:14,671
Logging in pilot in command flight time.

318
00:19:15,891 --> 00:19:19,171
A, we're going to skip over
the stuff that's irrelevant.

319
00:19:19,411 --> 00:19:27,571
Private pilot may log pilot in command
flight time for flights when the pilot is

320
00:19:27,571 --> 00:19:31,861
the sole manipulator of the controls of
an aircraft for which the pilot is rated.

321
00:19:34,361 --> 00:19:38,821
Now, is any of this other stuff
even relevant at this point?

322
00:19:40,211 --> 00:19:41,281
Here's how we check that.

323
00:19:41,281 --> 00:19:46,401
So, you can see we've got these
little i's, uh, you know, basically

324
00:19:46,401 --> 00:19:47,941
small roman numerals here,

325
00:19:50,701 --> 00:19:54,761
and at the end of every one we've
got a semicolon, except for,

326
00:19:54,871 --> 00:19:59,836
before this last one, number four,
Look at this word right here.

327
00:19:59,836 --> 00:20:00,726
It's an OR.

328
00:20:02,256 --> 00:20:05,636
As long as that is an OR, that
means you only have to satisfy

329
00:20:05,636 --> 00:20:07,806
one of those sub conditions.

330
00:20:08,536 --> 00:20:09,346
So that's it.

331
00:20:10,076 --> 00:20:11,266
We've told the story now.

332
00:20:11,266 --> 00:20:13,306
We are able to log that flight time.

333
00:20:15,666 --> 00:20:18,046
So hopefully that, uh, that makes sense.

334
00:20:19,281 --> 00:20:20,241
Yeah, for sure.

335
00:20:20,636 --> 00:20:24,496
I will tell you there's another
thing that you can look up and

336
00:20:24,496 --> 00:20:28,926
this is my don't argue with me I've
been arguing about this subject

337
00:20:28,926 --> 00:20:30,966
for way longer than a lot of people

338
00:20:33,486 --> 00:20:37,776
But this is this is also something
that is a really good reference So

339
00:20:39,006 --> 00:20:42,286
it's not at an easy URL like ecfr.

340
00:20:42,306 --> 00:20:42,576
gov.

341
00:20:42,586 --> 00:20:55,971
So I always just Google search for search
FAA chief counsel not counsel like a

342
00:20:55,971 --> 00:21:04,791
group of leaders but counsel as in lawyers
C O U N S E L Interpretations, and you

343
00:21:04,791 --> 00:21:10,721
can see it was actually, it was coming
up before I even finished there, but,

344
00:21:13,451 --> 00:21:13,831
okay.

345
00:21:14,581 --> 00:21:16,651
So, interpretation search.

346
00:21:16,841 --> 00:21:22,991
Now what we can do is we can put in a
keyword, and you can type in something

347
00:21:22,991 --> 00:21:29,891
like PIC or log or, you know, the problem
is you'll get a lot of results on those.

348
00:21:29,901 --> 00:21:33,861
So one thing that's easy to
search for is just search for the

349
00:21:33,861 --> 00:21:36,371
regulation that you're looking for.

350
00:21:37,231 --> 00:21:39,451
So let's do 6151E

351
00:21:43,511 --> 00:21:45,351
and that got it down to two pages.

352
00:21:45,351 --> 00:21:48,611
So, uh, oh no, two results.

353
00:21:49,361 --> 00:21:53,001
Now this one, the Herman interpretation,
was actually requested by a

354
00:21:53,001 --> 00:21:54,231
friend of mine, Jason Herman.

355
00:21:55,446 --> 00:21:58,856
In fact, he was on an episode of
the pilot cast quite a while ago.

356
00:21:59,406 --> 00:21:59,516
I

357
00:21:59,716 --> 00:22:03,216
So, Hey, Jason, if you're listening
out there, hope you're doing well.

358
00:22:03,766 --> 00:22:07,176
what you'll see is you'll see these
letters that are written from the

359
00:22:07,176 --> 00:22:12,286
FAA to the people who request these
interpretations and anybody can do that.

360
00:22:14,471 --> 00:22:18,091
So, it says he requested clarification
concerning the logging of pilot in

361
00:22:18,091 --> 00:22:23,951
command flight time under 14 CFR
6151E for flights conducted in complex

362
00:22:23,951 --> 00:22:25,601
and or high performance airplanes.

363
00:22:26,121 --> 00:22:28,421
Sounds like the question that
we were just looking at, right?

364
00:22:28,966 --> 00:22:32,416
Your letter presents a scenario in
which a pilot who holds a private pilot

365
00:22:32,416 --> 00:22:35,796
certificate with an aircraft single
engine land rating but does not have

366
00:22:35,796 --> 00:22:39,256
endorsements for high performance
or complex airplanes required by

367
00:22:39,276 --> 00:22:42,796
14 CFR 6131ENF to act as a PIC.

368
00:22:44,101 --> 00:22:48,371
Note the word act again that we talked
about earlier is flying in a high

369
00:22:48,371 --> 00:22:50,011
performance and complex airplane.

370
00:22:50,061 --> 00:22:54,301
Another pilot who has those endorsements
is acting as the PIC for the flight.

371
00:22:54,741 --> 00:22:58,081
Your letter asks whether the pilot
lacking the endorsements may log PIC

372
00:22:58,521 --> 00:23:01,871
time for the time that the pilot is
the sole manipulator of the controls.

373
00:23:02,861 --> 00:23:04,251
Does that wording sound familiar?

374
00:23:04,631 --> 00:23:05,801
Yes, it does.

375
00:23:06,996 --> 00:23:09,956
Your letter also asks a similar
question in the context of a pilot

376
00:23:10,336 --> 00:23:13,886
lacking these endorsements logging
PIC time during a training flight.

377
00:23:14,906 --> 00:23:18,736
The response that follows applies to
either scenario because the regulations

378
00:23:18,736 --> 00:23:22,496
that govern the logging of PIC time
whenever a pilot is the sole manipulator

379
00:23:22,496 --> 00:23:23,746
of the controls of an aircraft.

380
00:23:23,756 --> 00:23:29,156
So, whether you are getting instruction
or just flying around with a friend.

381
00:23:29,361 --> 00:23:29,981
Doesn't matter.

382
00:23:31,231 --> 00:23:31,571
Yep.

383
00:23:34,431 --> 00:23:39,601
So section 50, 6151E governs the logging
of PIC time and states and relevant park

384
00:23:39,601 --> 00:23:41,631
that a sport recreational blah blah blah.

385
00:23:41,631 --> 00:23:44,751
I'm not going to reread the whole,
the whole thing there, but it does

386
00:23:44,751 --> 00:23:49,891
say right here, the term rated as used
in section 6151E refers to the pilot

387
00:23:49,901 --> 00:23:52,251
holding the appropriate aircraft ratings.

388
00:23:52,711 --> 00:23:56,961
Category, class, and type, if a
type rating is required, and these

389
00:23:56,961 --> 00:24:00,871
ratings are listed in 615 and
placed on the pilot certificate.

390
00:24:01,291 --> 00:24:07,211
And then it references another
interpretation, 6131 ENF established

391
00:24:07,211 --> 00:24:11,391
additional training and endorsement
requirements before acting.

392
00:24:12,571 --> 00:24:15,821
As PIC of a complex or high
performance airplane, respectively.

393
00:24:16,481 --> 00:24:21,271
Although these endorsements are required
before a pilot may act as PIC, they are

394
00:24:21,271 --> 00:24:27,671
not required to log PIC time if the pilot
is rated for and is the sole manipulator

395
00:24:27,671 --> 00:24:28,881
of the controls of the aircraft.

396
00:24:29,311 --> 00:24:32,531
So you're hearing a lot
of those same words again.

397
00:24:32,611 --> 00:24:38,051
You know, they're, they're being very
clear about, you know, rated and sole

398
00:24:38,051 --> 00:24:40,351
manipulator and all that kind of stuff.

399
00:24:42,626 --> 00:24:47,706
But here's where the whole don't ask
it to make sense thing comes in and the

400
00:24:47,706 --> 00:24:49,916
difference between logging and acting.

401
00:24:51,116 --> 00:24:55,586
There is a distinction between
logging PIC time and acting as a PIC.

402
00:24:56,446 --> 00:24:58,876
For a pilot to log PIC time, i.

403
00:24:58,926 --> 00:24:59,196
e.

404
00:24:59,206 --> 00:25:02,346
sole manipulator of the controls, a
pilot must be properly rated in the

405
00:25:02,346 --> 00:25:06,366
aircraft by having the appropriate
category, class, and type ratings.

406
00:25:07,016 --> 00:25:08,869
For a pilot to Act as a PIC, i.

407
00:25:08,869 --> 00:25:09,302
e.

408
00:25:09,302 --> 00:25:13,016
the pilot who has final authority and
responsibility for the operation and

409
00:25:13,016 --> 00:25:19,216
safety of flight, and you'll hear those
words in, uh, 61 3 and, a bunch of

410
00:25:19,216 --> 00:25:21,816
other places in the regulations as well.

411
00:25:22,876 --> 00:25:26,846
Pilot must be properly rated in the
aircraft and be properly rated and

412
00:25:26,896 --> 00:25:28,376
authorized to conduct the flight.

413
00:25:28,586 --> 00:25:29,076
So,

414
00:25:31,126 --> 00:25:34,306
in your example, being properly
rated and authorized would

415
00:25:34,306 --> 00:25:37,096
include having the endorsements
for complex and high performance

416
00:25:37,096 --> 00:25:40,506
airplanes as required by 6131 ENF.

417
00:25:41,176 --> 00:25:45,596
Accordingly, in your examples, the
pilot may log PIC time if that pilot

418
00:25:45,626 --> 00:25:49,836
is properly rated for the aircraft even
though that pilot does not have the

419
00:25:49,886 --> 00:25:52,386
required endorsements to act as a PIC.

420
00:25:53,336 --> 00:25:58,536
So, basically, that's the letter
from the FAA that says all that stuff

421
00:25:58,536 --> 00:26:00,006
that I just said before is true.

422
00:26:00,786 --> 00:26:01,056
Yep.

423
00:26:01,256 --> 00:26:02,806
Yep, exactly.

424
00:26:03,476 --> 00:26:03,576
I

425
00:26:03,596 --> 00:26:07,756
So, when you do have a question about
stuff like that, it's, it's really a

426
00:26:07,756 --> 00:26:13,596
good idea to go and search those FAA
interpretations because, uh, There are

427
00:26:13,596 --> 00:26:19,726
certain times where something isn't
necessarily clear to a layman, and it's

428
00:26:19,726 --> 00:26:25,186
always good to see what the lawyers at
the FAA have determined is, you know,

429
00:26:25,186 --> 00:26:26,946
the real meaning of the regulation.

430
00:26:27,596 --> 00:26:28,006
Yep.

431
00:26:28,466 --> 00:26:28,726
Yep.

432
00:26:29,946 --> 00:26:32,966
I actually have a quick story
where this is very relevant.

433
00:26:33,286 --> 00:26:41,066
A few weeks ago, a friend of ours, took
us on a flight in his great little arrow

434
00:26:41,066 --> 00:26:42,726
that he owns with a few other people.

435
00:26:43,136 --> 00:26:47,856
we went up for breakfast one Saturday
morning for, up to the high country and

436
00:26:47,856 --> 00:26:54,956
Payson and Merrick, My middle son, who
is a private pilot working on some of his

437
00:26:54,956 --> 00:27:03,426
other ratings, he does not have a complex
endorsement and an arrow is a complex

438
00:27:03,426 --> 00:27:06,416
airplane, but he flew for, you know, 0.

439
00:27:06,446 --> 00:27:07,996
5 or 0.

440
00:27:07,996 --> 00:27:11,866
6, because our friend, allowed him
to, you know, fly the airplane and get

441
00:27:11,866 --> 00:27:13,616
a feel for it on our way back down.

442
00:27:14,316 --> 00:27:17,446
And, when we got back, I
said, you know, you can.

443
00:27:17,841 --> 00:27:18,971
You can log that 0.

444
00:27:18,971 --> 00:27:19,211
5 or 0.

445
00:27:19,211 --> 00:27:21,291
6, however long you were.

446
00:27:21,721 --> 00:27:25,721
So a manipulator of the controls and,
he goes, yeah, but I don't have it.

447
00:27:25,721 --> 00:27:32,411
And I explained this to him, so that, you
know, he, he was able to log that time

448
00:27:32,411 --> 00:27:34,131
because he is time building right now.

449
00:27:34,131 --> 00:27:37,221
He is trying to gain
experience and get time.

450
00:27:37,231 --> 00:27:37,491
So.

451
00:27:37,601 --> 00:27:42,951
The interesting thing about that
is technically that is a, so

452
00:27:43,031 --> 00:27:45,581
I've got a follow up question
for you based on that scenario.

453
00:27:45,581 --> 00:27:47,531
I told you I was going to
throw some curveballs at you.

454
00:27:48,741 --> 00:27:55,561
So, even though that that airport was
more than 50 miles away, can he now log

455
00:27:55,561 --> 00:28:00,631
that as cross country time, even though
he did not do the takeoff and landing?

456
00:28:03,981 --> 00:28:06,421
So you're wondering what he can log,

457
00:28:06,611 --> 00:28:07,451
He can log PIC,

458
00:28:09,421 --> 00:28:12,131
but can he log it as PIC cross country?

459
00:28:12,706 --> 00:28:14,766
And that took a little
digging for us to figure out.

460
00:28:14,806 --> 00:28:15,176
Yep.

461
00:28:15,981 --> 00:28:23,866
So Now, I believe, let me go back to
the interpretation search here, and

462
00:28:23,876 --> 00:28:27,386
I don't know why, but I know all the
people who ask these dumb questions.

463
00:28:32,006 --> 00:28:33,656
They aren't actually dumb questions.

464
00:28:33,656 --> 00:28:36,466
I'll, I'll say that, but, okay, Van Zanen.

465
00:28:36,466 --> 00:28:42,636
Alright, so, you know, one thing
I'm going to do first is go back to

466
00:28:44,766 --> 00:28:47,156
our definitions here
at the top of part 61.

467
00:28:48,941 --> 00:28:53,431
because that should give us a clue what
this interpretation is going to say.

468
00:28:54,901 --> 00:28:57,811
So what is the definition
of cross country?

469
00:28:58,331 --> 00:28:59,311
Let me ask you that, Bill.

470
00:28:59,311 --> 00:29:01,091
What's the definition of cross country?

471
00:29:02,281 --> 00:29:07,661
Well, it, it, it depends
on why you're logging it.

472
00:29:08,571 --> 00:29:12,831
So that's the important thing is
if you're logging it for experience

473
00:29:12,831 --> 00:29:18,381
requirements to obtain other ratings,
then there are definitions, based on

474
00:29:18,381 --> 00:29:24,241
that, if you're logging it, because
you want a record of your flying, then

475
00:29:24,321 --> 00:29:26,651
that's a different standard, right?

476
00:29:26,661 --> 00:29:31,021
And that really means going
from one place to another.

477
00:29:31,596 --> 00:29:33,556
Anywhere that would be a cross country.

478
00:29:33,866 --> 00:29:40,346
But if you want to use it for, for
example, experience requirements for

479
00:29:40,356 --> 00:29:44,456
getting an instrument rating or for
getting a commercial certificate, then

480
00:29:44,456 --> 00:29:46,256
it has to meet certain requirements.

481
00:29:46,576 --> 00:29:49,466
And the standard requirements for
cross country for most of those

482
00:29:49,466 --> 00:29:51,176
certificates, has a definition.

483
00:29:52,511 --> 00:29:52,991
yes.

484
00:29:53,491 --> 00:29:56,971
Now, let me show you what
the basic definition is here.

485
00:29:58,801 --> 00:30:04,291
Cross country time means, except as
provided in paragraphs two through

486
00:30:04,291 --> 00:30:06,381
five, or two through six, rather,

487
00:30:08,866 --> 00:30:13,566
Time acquired during flight conducted by
a person who holds a pilot certificate

488
00:30:13,756 --> 00:30:17,836
in an aircraft that includes landing at
a point other than the point of departure

489
00:30:18,696 --> 00:30:22,436
and that involves the use of dead
reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation

490
00:30:22,436 --> 00:30:25,986
aids, radio aids, or other navigation
systems to navigate to the landing point.

491
00:30:27,956 --> 00:30:28,536
So.

492
00:30:29,096 --> 00:30:34,516
No mileage requirements, no, you know,
specific requirements, but there is

493
00:30:34,641 --> 00:30:35,551
we'll pause there.

494
00:30:35,551 --> 00:30:41,401
So the, the two through six, if we
look at those two is for the purpose

495
00:30:41,401 --> 00:30:44,781
of meeting aeronautical experience
requirements, except for rotorcraft

496
00:30:44,791 --> 00:30:46,461
for a private pilot certificate.

497
00:30:47,311 --> 00:30:50,381
And then you'll see, here's the
50 nautical mile requirement

498
00:30:50,381 --> 00:30:51,681
that people are talking about.

499
00:30:52,291 --> 00:30:53,491
for a sport pilot.

500
00:30:53,816 --> 00:30:57,856
I did want it to go back to, what
you read as the basic definition.

501
00:30:58,626 --> 00:31:01,546
it it does say landing,

502
00:31:02,701 --> 00:31:03,371
Yes.

503
00:31:03,516 --> 00:31:05,136
Landing at the airport.

504
00:31:05,476 --> 00:31:06,306
And so as soon

505
00:31:06,471 --> 00:31:07,211
is the key.

506
00:31:07,436 --> 00:31:13,556
yep, as soon as we got to that point,
then it was clear that my son could

507
00:31:13,566 --> 00:31:16,916
not log that as PIC cross country time.

508
00:31:17,516 --> 00:31:21,516
Because it wasn't even, he didn't
even perform a cross country flight

509
00:31:21,766 --> 00:31:23,396
because he was missing a key element.

510
00:31:23,396 --> 00:31:25,966
And that's the landing at a place
that was different than the part of

511
00:31:25,966 --> 00:31:28,266
departure than the point of departure.

512
00:31:28,266 --> 00:31:29,056
I should, I should

513
00:31:29,056 --> 00:31:29,286
say,

514
00:31:29,381 --> 00:31:30,471
Exactly.

515
00:31:31,786 --> 00:31:33,556
but then those other
criteria come into play.

516
00:31:33,556 --> 00:31:36,306
But in this case, they're
irrelevant because he's already

517
00:31:36,306 --> 00:31:38,976
been disqualified from being able to

518
00:31:39,166 --> 00:31:39,756
Right.

519
00:31:40,516 --> 00:31:45,046
And yeah, these are basically for all
the different types of pilot certificate.

520
00:31:45,046 --> 00:31:48,216
Now, I have a suggestion.

521
00:31:48,216 --> 00:31:50,516
This has no legal basis whatsoever.

522
00:31:50,526 --> 00:31:52,906
It's just, making it easier for people.

523
00:31:52,916 --> 00:32:00,036
So, If you want to, you can certainly
mark down any flight where the takeoff and

524
00:32:00,036 --> 00:32:04,536
landing are at different places as cross
country right from the very beginning.

525
00:32:05,056 --> 00:32:12,531
However, when you're working on your
Private pilot certificate, your instrument

526
00:32:12,531 --> 00:32:17,431
rating, and your commercial, those all
have the 50 nautical mile requirement.

527
00:32:18,211 --> 00:32:21,891
And you're going to have to total
up the greater than 50 nautical

528
00:32:21,891 --> 00:32:26,581
mile cross country for filling out
your, forms that you fill out to

529
00:32:26,581 --> 00:32:28,601
apply for the new pilot certificate

530
00:32:29,076 --> 00:32:29,276
Oh

531
00:32:29,341 --> 00:32:30,151
for the checkride.

532
00:32:31,171 --> 00:32:35,116
Used to be form 8710 when it
was on paper, but Yeah, whatever

533
00:32:35,116 --> 00:32:36,666
the electronic equivalent is.

534
00:32:36,706 --> 00:32:37,366
IACRA, I

535
00:32:37,366 --> 00:32:37,776
think.

536
00:32:37,856 --> 00:32:38,376
IACRA

537
00:32:38,596 --> 00:32:45,026
Um, so, yeah, to make it easy to
fill out your IACRA, don't bother

538
00:32:45,026 --> 00:32:46,816
logging the shorter stuff early

539
00:32:46,816 --> 00:32:47,146
on.

540
00:32:47,216 --> 00:32:49,616
It's just gonna make your
calculations more difficult.

541
00:32:50,696 --> 00:32:51,076
yeah.

542
00:32:52,546 --> 00:32:58,116
So, I think generally after the
commercial, as long as you have

543
00:32:58,226 --> 00:33:00,486
that landing elsewhere, you're good.

544
00:33:01,036 --> 00:33:04,386
so if we scroll down
here just a little ways,

545
00:33:06,646 --> 00:33:07,666
number six here.

546
00:33:08,266 --> 00:33:14,766
For the ATP certificate, it's straight
line distance, more than 50 nautical miles

547
00:33:14,766 --> 00:33:16,406
from the original point of departure.

548
00:33:16,426 --> 00:33:18,806
And that involves the use
of dead reckoning, pilotage,

549
00:33:18,806 --> 00:33:20,046
electronic, blah, blah, blah.

550
00:33:20,546 --> 00:33:25,386
So the ATPs don't even have
to land somewhere else.

551
00:33:26,166 --> 00:33:26,626
Right.

552
00:33:27,276 --> 00:33:29,536
that said that has to be more than 50.

553
00:33:29,546 --> 00:33:39,036
So I guess until you have the ATP, it's
worth logging only that greater than 50.

554
00:33:39,586 --> 00:33:41,136
Now, after that.

555
00:33:42,126 --> 00:33:43,536
Nothing really matters anymore.

556
00:33:43,826 --> 00:33:44,696
Yeah, log whatever you

557
00:33:44,846 --> 00:33:47,426
you can, you can log it all at that point.

558
00:33:48,526 --> 00:33:48,776
Yeah.

559
00:33:49,986 --> 00:33:50,416
Excellent.

560
00:33:51,266 --> 00:33:55,056
Well, uh, we didn't even pre plan
that, but that, little personal story

561
00:33:55,056 --> 00:33:58,926
kinda helped illustrate how you can
get into a rat hole, and then you're

562
00:33:58,926 --> 00:34:04,636
demonstrating perfectly how you can
unravel all of these things, peel the

563
00:34:04,636 --> 00:34:06,826
onion, and get down to the bottom of it.

564
00:34:07,266 --> 00:34:08,606
So, that's good stuff.

565
00:34:09,606 --> 00:34:12,996
So this particular letter of
interpretation, I'm not going to read

566
00:34:12,996 --> 00:34:19,496
the whole thing out, but basically
what it says is that If you have three

567
00:34:19,496 --> 00:34:27,206
airports, A, B, and C, and none of them
are more than 50 nautical miles from

568
00:34:27,206 --> 00:34:33,306
your home base, which is airport A,
but airports B and C have more than 50

569
00:34:33,306 --> 00:34:40,301
nautical miles between them, and you
fly A to B to C back to A, Because B

570
00:34:40,301 --> 00:34:46,871
and C have 50 nautical miles between
them, if you log your flight from A to

571
00:34:46,881 --> 00:34:55,171
B, separately from your flight from B
to C to A, you can log the B to C to A

572
00:34:55,181 --> 00:35:01,111
flight as cross country, and then not log
the A to B flight as cross country, they

573
00:35:01,111 --> 00:35:03,181
just call that a repositioning flight.

574
00:35:04,041 --> 00:35:09,211
And so, it kind of seems to go a little
bit against the spirit of the regulations,

575
00:35:09,596 --> 00:35:12,556
But, that's one of those questions where,

576
00:35:12,926 --> 00:35:17,716
uh, a lot of people ask, like, does each
leg have to be more than 50 nautical

577
00:35:17,716 --> 00:35:21,766
miles, and that sort of thing, and it
doesn't, like, you know, if you're working

578
00:35:21,766 --> 00:35:25,846
on your private pilot certificate, and
you want to, hop to 10 different airports,

579
00:35:25,846 --> 00:35:31,446
none of which is more than, 10 miles away
from the last one, as long as one of those

580
00:35:31,446 --> 00:35:35,486
airports is greater than 50 nautical miles
from your point of origin, you're good.

581
00:35:37,116 --> 00:35:37,706
Alright,

582
00:35:38,036 --> 00:35:38,406
I've got it.

583
00:35:38,456 --> 00:35:41,226
I've got a couple, I know we've got
some more scenarios, but if we could

584
00:35:41,226 --> 00:35:44,636
step away from the regs a little bit,
give everybody's brain a little bit

585
00:35:44,636 --> 00:35:50,336
of a break, I've got a convention or
maybe a suggestion, question for you.

586
00:35:50,676 --> 00:35:53,996
And this is a real scenario that's
been coming up for me lately.

587
00:35:54,376 --> 00:35:57,736
As most folks know, I'm,
I've been working on my CFI.

588
00:35:57,736 --> 00:35:58,506
I'm having a hard time.

589
00:35:58,546 --> 00:36:01,246
I'm ready for my check ride, but
I'm having a hard time getting

590
00:36:01,246 --> 00:36:02,556
that check ride scheduled.

591
00:36:02,986 --> 00:36:04,996
So it's kind of dragging on for a while.

592
00:36:05,006 --> 00:36:07,226
This is not an uncommon
problem these days.

593
00:36:08,086 --> 00:36:11,996
So, I'm doing all kinds of flying
and a lot of the flying I'm doing, of

594
00:36:11,996 --> 00:36:15,136
course, I'm doing it from the right seat
to continue to get more comfortable.

595
00:36:15,646 --> 00:36:19,396
And I'm taking my kids and anybody
who's willing to be a Guinea pig and

596
00:36:19,396 --> 00:36:21,176
I'm teaching them things about flying.

597
00:36:22,606 --> 00:36:27,166
and so I've had the opportunity recently,
for example, to take my son, who was

598
00:36:27,176 --> 00:36:31,226
already a private pilot and introduce
him to some of the commercial maneuvers,

599
00:36:31,546 --> 00:36:35,806
acting as if I'm in his instructor, of
course, in this case, I haven't done

600
00:36:35,806 --> 00:36:42,076
my checkride, so I'm not a CFI yet,
so we can't log it as dual, but I can

601
00:36:42,076 --> 00:36:45,776
certainly teach him, demonstrate the
maneuver, let him try the maneuver, you

602
00:36:45,776 --> 00:36:50,226
know, those sorts of things, and give him
feedback and act like I'm an instructor.

603
00:36:50,746 --> 00:36:51,946
And so that's what I've been doing.

604
00:36:52,536 --> 00:36:57,926
Now in that case, because he's not
logging dual and I'm not logging

605
00:36:57,926 --> 00:37:00,366
dual given, I, I am acting as PIC.

606
00:37:01,666 --> 00:37:06,141
But unless I'm demonstrating or doing
the landing or something like that.

607
00:37:06,821 --> 00:37:12,071
I'm not able to log PIC time
because he's logging PIC time as the

608
00:37:12,071 --> 00:37:13,591
sole manipulator of the controls.

609
00:37:13,601 --> 00:37:15,141
He's rated for the aircraft.

610
00:37:15,421 --> 00:37:17,781
So he, he can log that PIC time.

611
00:37:18,061 --> 00:37:19,591
Therefore I can't.

612
00:37:19,991 --> 00:37:21,871
so that's been an interesting thing.

613
00:37:21,871 --> 00:37:25,201
So I've got a question for
you on how you might fill out

614
00:37:25,201 --> 00:37:27,411
a log book in this situation.

615
00:37:27,701 --> 00:37:32,711
So most log books have A column
that says, I've got my log book

616
00:37:32,711 --> 00:37:36,181
open, so I'm going to be glancing
at it says total duration of flight.

617
00:37:37,561 --> 00:37:40,441
And this goes to the scenario I was
talking about earlier when we went

618
00:37:40,441 --> 00:37:45,061
with a friend, flew to breakfast and
Merrick flew for part of it, I flew

619
00:37:45,061 --> 00:37:46,661
for part of it on the other direction.

620
00:37:47,211 --> 00:37:51,031
so what would you put, in the
total duration of flight there?

621
00:37:51,341 --> 00:37:54,551
Would you put the amount of time
you're logging PIC where you were

622
00:37:54,551 --> 00:37:56,161
the sole manipulator, the controls.

623
00:37:56,536 --> 00:37:59,696
Or would you put the total
duration of the whole flight?

624
00:38:01,671 --> 00:38:05,371
what I would put in there is

625
00:38:07,441 --> 00:38:11,061
the total loggable duration of the flight.

626
00:38:12,591 --> 00:38:16,701
Um, and I actually have
something in our notes here about

627
00:38:16,711 --> 00:38:18,791
things you can't log as well.

628
00:38:18,921 --> 00:38:21,311
loggable loggable for you.

629
00:38:21,771 --> 00:38:22,691
Is that what you're saying?

630
00:38:22,961 --> 00:38:23,771
correct.

631
00:38:24,191 --> 00:38:24,621
So,

632
00:38:25,111 --> 00:38:25,851
it would Matt.

633
00:38:25,861 --> 00:38:27,341
In other words, you would fill it

634
00:38:27,341 --> 00:38:27,671
out.

635
00:38:28,501 --> 00:38:29,391
You would fill it out.

636
00:38:29,391 --> 00:38:33,121
So it matches your PIC time in
this scenario that I'm giving.

637
00:38:33,621 --> 00:38:34,221
Yes.

638
00:38:35,131 --> 00:38:39,711
So, there are really
two kinds of total time.

639
00:38:39,711 --> 00:38:43,511
There's total flight time
and there's total pilot time.

640
00:38:44,371 --> 00:38:47,881
The only difference between
them is simulator time.

641
00:38:49,151 --> 00:38:53,581
So, essentially, total flight time,
which is in an aircraft, off the

642
00:38:53,581 --> 00:38:58,561
ground, plus your simulator time
would be your total pilot time.

643
00:38:59,251 --> 00:39:03,461
so, you know, you can choose for your
own convention, you know, I have a,

644
00:39:04,271 --> 00:39:07,021
ground trainer, column in my log book.

645
00:39:07,131 --> 00:39:09,861
Um, some would call that simulator.

646
00:39:10,521 --> 00:39:13,801
but you know, you can choose
whether total duration of flight

647
00:39:13,811 --> 00:39:16,301
is pilot time or flight time.

648
00:39:17,521 --> 00:39:23,131
Just because the word is flight, I have
chosen to log flight time in that column.

649
00:39:23,741 --> 00:39:29,291
And so if someone asks for total
pilot time, including simulator, in

650
00:39:29,291 --> 00:39:34,021
fact, I've got a, an entry right here
where you can, um, Maybe see that.

651
00:39:35,901 --> 00:39:38,921
You can see on that second line
there, I have nothing in total

652
00:39:38,931 --> 00:39:43,911
flight time because I logged it
over here on the simulator column.

653
00:39:47,391 --> 00:39:48,541
So, that's that.

654
00:39:48,561 --> 00:39:55,111
Now, you probably are only putting
in like a tenth or two of loggable

655
00:39:55,131 --> 00:39:57,331
time demonstrating maneuvers, right?

656
00:39:58,371 --> 00:39:59,911
Yeah, we did like a 1.

657
00:39:59,911 --> 00:40:05,021
2 and because I'm also practicing
demonstrating, I got 0.

658
00:40:05,081 --> 00:40:05,521
3.

659
00:40:06,321 --> 00:40:06,741
Okay.

660
00:40:06,901 --> 00:40:12,441
So I calculated how much time I was sole
manipulator of the controls and logged 0.

661
00:40:12,521 --> 00:40:16,791
3 on this particular flight of PIC
and he logged the rest of it as PIC.

662
00:40:17,321 --> 00:40:19,871
I also did the, the takeoff and landing.

663
00:40:20,251 --> 00:40:23,531
So, that was additional, part of my 0.

664
00:40:23,531 --> 00:40:24,721
3.

665
00:40:26,181 --> 00:40:30,101
Yeah, so, I know that there are
some people who will say things

666
00:40:30,101 --> 00:40:32,106
like, Well, it's your logbook.

667
00:40:32,116 --> 00:40:33,426
You can log whatever you want.

668
00:40:33,996 --> 00:40:35,556
And while that is true,

669
00:40:36,236 --> 00:40:41,576
um, to some extent, it also, you don't
want to make it look like you're lying,

670
00:40:41,676 --> 00:40:46,996
you know, whether you end up applying
for a job someday or you're having

671
00:40:46,996 --> 00:40:52,376
a chat with the FAA, maybe after a
ramp check, maybe after an accident,

672
00:40:52,396 --> 00:40:57,436
hopefully not, but you know, if you
have all this stuff in your logbook,

673
00:40:58,366 --> 00:41:04,306
And you have been logging time given
the columns that are in most logbooks.

674
00:41:05,086 --> 00:41:07,516
Eh, that's going to be a pretty
uncomfortable conversation.

675
00:41:07,696 --> 00:41:12,676
Well, why did you log this time in the
747 when clearly you're not rated for it?

676
00:41:14,186 --> 00:41:14,396
Yeah.

677
00:41:14,936 --> 00:41:17,936
Well, I like to log passenger time too.

678
00:41:17,946 --> 00:41:21,226
Well, yeah, don't put
that in total time though.

679
00:41:21,836 --> 00:41:22,376
So,

680
00:41:22,536 --> 00:41:25,456
Well, there's another
column to, same question.

681
00:41:25,456 --> 00:41:28,846
I think your answer is going to be
pretty obvious, but there's another

682
00:41:29,026 --> 00:41:33,636
column for, you know, in this
case, airplane single engine land.

683
00:41:33,966 --> 00:41:35,446
So category and class.

684
00:41:35,986 --> 00:41:41,086
So again, it sounds like you would
log just the amount of time that

685
00:41:41,096 --> 00:41:44,526
matches what you're able to log
as PIC since you're rated in it.

686
00:41:45,271 --> 00:41:45,971
yes.

687
00:41:46,931 --> 00:41:51,131
And then, because, you know, Single
probably doesn't matter that much,

688
00:41:51,151 --> 00:41:54,381
but you probably right next to that
have an airplane multi engine land

689
00:41:54,401 --> 00:41:56,581
column and that one is going to matter.

690
00:41:56,621 --> 00:42:01,761
you will be asked about that for
insurance paperwork and for applying

691
00:42:01,761 --> 00:42:03,741
for jobs and all that kind of stuff.

692
00:42:04,161 --> 00:42:08,987
So in both of those cases, if you have
a flight that you would like to put

693
00:42:08,987 --> 00:42:14,761
into your logbook for memory purposes,
let's call it, you know, it's a

694
00:42:14,761 --> 00:42:16,841
flight that you want to remember and.

695
00:42:17,476 --> 00:42:22,146
Frankly, there are times when you,
are getting some value from a flight,

696
00:42:22,196 --> 00:42:23,866
even if you can't necessarily log it.

697
00:42:24,996 --> 00:42:25,286
Yeah.

698
00:42:26,546 --> 00:42:30,186
and so in those cases, if you
want to put something like that

699
00:42:30,186 --> 00:42:34,556
in your logbook, does your logbook
have some blank columns in it?

700
00:42:35,406 --> 00:42:36,196
Um, it does.

701
00:42:36,316 --> 00:42:36,546
Yep.

702
00:42:37,386 --> 00:42:42,266
And I've written in things like, um,
complex and high performance, things like

703
00:42:42,266 --> 00:42:44,176
that, that allow me to keep track of that.

704
00:42:46,116 --> 00:42:46,786
yeah.

705
00:42:47,026 --> 00:42:50,386
So, you know, looking in my logbook
here, I've got single engine

706
00:42:50,386 --> 00:42:52,886
land, multi engine land, blank.

707
00:42:54,126 --> 00:42:58,186
Helicopter, as flight instructor, um,

708
00:42:58,336 --> 00:42:58,586
Yep.

709
00:42:59,696 --> 00:43:02,446
and the rest of them, I
would probably actually use.

710
00:43:02,456 --> 00:43:07,926
So what I would suggest, and
I, I didn't start doing this

711
00:43:07,926 --> 00:43:09,706
until actually very recently.

712
00:43:10,336 --> 00:43:12,041
I was working for a flight instructor.

713
00:43:12,571 --> 00:43:19,751
Part 135 operator, and I was only able
to log maybe half of my time or so

714
00:43:19,761 --> 00:43:25,651
because we were flying single pilot
airplanes and Any time that we were

715
00:43:25,651 --> 00:43:30,551
on a part 91 leg or if we were on a
part 135 leg without passengers on

716
00:43:30,551 --> 00:43:37,031
board There's no method for me to be
able to log PIC or really log anything

717
00:43:39,361 --> 00:43:46,716
and so I decided that What I would be
doing with that is logging it under

718
00:43:46,716 --> 00:43:49,326
a new column that I call seat time.

719
00:43:50,446 --> 00:43:56,886
So if I was the pilot monitoring, not
the pilot flying, and I was not acting

720
00:43:56,886 --> 00:44:05,766
as pilot in command of a 135 leg,
then I would just log it as seat time.

721
00:44:05,926 --> 00:44:10,956
So my total time would be zero,
cross country zero, landing zero,

722
00:44:11,066 --> 00:44:15,016
you know, all that stuff, but
seat time, I would put that in.

723
00:44:15,016 --> 00:44:18,096
So, in your case, you could log 1.

724
00:44:18,096 --> 00:44:20,291
2 of seat time and 0.

725
00:44:20,321 --> 00:44:22,121
3 of PIC, for example.

726
00:44:22,131 --> 00:44:22,491
So,

727
00:44:22,966 --> 00:44:23,776
Right, right.

728
00:44:24,631 --> 00:44:29,851
I just, that's, I feel like that
is a method to make it very clear

729
00:44:29,851 --> 00:44:34,561
that, hey, this is, this is time
that wasn't necessarily loggable that

730
00:44:34,761 --> 00:44:36,371
I just wanted to have a record of.

731
00:44:37,916 --> 00:44:38,756
Very interesting.

732
00:44:39,896 --> 00:44:43,106
So yeah, we got a, got a little away
from the regulations and more about

733
00:44:43,106 --> 00:44:45,296
convention and kind of best practices.

734
00:44:45,296 --> 00:44:47,416
But, but I thought that
would be valuable as well.

735
00:44:47,956 --> 00:44:52,236
Along those same lines, Kent, what
about in a situation where you

736
00:44:52,236 --> 00:44:56,296
hand the controls, over to a buddy
who's not a rated pilot at all?

737
00:44:58,601 --> 00:45:06,051
So that is the zero asterisk I was talking
about at the top, because guess what?

738
00:45:06,051 --> 00:45:07,451
You just handed the controls over.

739
00:45:07,451 --> 00:45:09,531
You're no longer the
sole manipulator, right?

740
00:45:10,086 --> 00:45:10,376
Yep.

741
00:45:11,071 --> 00:45:13,561
But your buddy is not rated.

742
00:45:14,406 --> 00:45:15,636
And can't log it either.

743
00:45:16,576 --> 00:45:18,106
Zero pilots logging PIC.

744
00:45:18,336 --> 00:45:18,476
it.

745
00:45:18,476 --> 00:45:18,876
Right.

746
00:45:19,266 --> 00:45:19,436
Yep.

747
00:45:19,926 --> 00:45:21,386
But here's the asterisk.

748
00:45:22,446 --> 00:45:25,766
Someone asked for an
interpretation on that one.

749
00:45:25,786 --> 00:45:27,466
And the FAA said.

750
00:45:28,491 --> 00:45:32,801
You know, in that instance, it's okay if
you log it, even if you're not the, truly

751
00:45:32,801 --> 00:45:34,781
the sole manipulator of the controls.

752
00:45:34,791 --> 00:45:38,301
So, I don't have that
interpretation handy here,

753
00:45:38,301 --> 00:45:38,631
but,

754
00:45:38,836 --> 00:45:43,306
it, it's almost like saying, let's
not leave PIC time on the table.

755
00:45:45,061 --> 00:45:51,761
kind of, but yeah, I think that the, the
FAA is view there was, well, in reality,

756
00:45:51,761 --> 00:45:53,691
you are still in control of the airplane.

757
00:45:53,701 --> 00:45:56,551
So we'll, uh, we'll let you have that one.

758
00:45:57,041 --> 00:46:02,061
And as long as we're on the subject,
Let's talk about just the few

759
00:46:02,061 --> 00:46:07,551
different ways that you can log time.

760
00:46:08,031 --> 00:46:14,461
Let me go back to 6151 one
last time here, hopefully.

761
00:46:15,411 --> 00:46:18,631
Alright, 6151E again here.

762
00:46:19,181 --> 00:46:22,356
we're going to just quickly
tick off the boxes that will

763
00:46:22,366 --> 00:46:23,716
let you log something as PIC.

764
00:46:24,396 --> 00:46:29,126
So we've already talked about the
sole manipulator rule a bunch.

765
00:46:30,886 --> 00:46:35,906
Number two here, when the pilot is
the sole occupant in the aircraft.

766
00:46:36,416 --> 00:46:41,906
So student solo, that's the first
time that you can log PIC because

767
00:46:43,026 --> 00:46:47,731
if you are the sole occupant of the
aircraft, You don't have to be rated.

768
00:46:48,431 --> 00:46:51,701
so I guess technically,
what did they call that kid?

769
00:46:51,861 --> 00:46:54,161
Uh, the, the barefoot bandit, I think,

770
00:46:55,131 --> 00:46:58,561
who for a while there was running
around the country, stealing airplanes.

771
00:46:58,756 --> 00:47:01,186
Mostly the Pacific
Northwest, Northwest, Right.

772
00:47:02,916 --> 00:47:03,196
Yeah.

773
00:47:03,196 --> 00:47:04,396
Technically he could lock it.

774
00:47:04,396 --> 00:47:06,996
Yeah.

775
00:47:06,996 --> 00:47:07,296
Uh,

776
00:47:07,306 --> 00:47:07,566
that's

777
00:47:07,641 --> 00:47:10,811
ever going to let him have a pilot
certificate, but that's beside the point.

778
00:47:13,241 --> 00:47:18,251
So, third one here, and this is the
one, that is important for, for the

779
00:47:18,251 --> 00:47:24,191
scenario where you have two people
logging PIC, uh, where one is being

780
00:47:24,191 --> 00:47:25,521
the safety pilot for the other.

781
00:47:25,521 --> 00:47:30,101
So, number three, when the pilot,
except for a holder of a sport or

782
00:47:30,101 --> 00:47:34,371
recreational pilot certificate, acts
as pilot in command of an aircraft

783
00:47:34,381 --> 00:47:37,811
for which more than one pilot is
required under the type certification

784
00:47:37,811 --> 00:47:41,561
of the aircraft or the regulations
under which the flight is conducted.

785
00:47:43,761 --> 00:47:46,661
So, that covers a bunch of scenarios.

786
00:47:47,181 --> 00:47:52,711
If you are an airline pilot or, any
sort of pilot where the aircraft

787
00:47:52,711 --> 00:47:59,031
requires two pilots, then, That's
the part where it says where more

788
00:47:59,031 --> 00:48:02,561
than one pilot is required under the
type certification of the aircraft.

789
00:48:04,091 --> 00:48:08,421
Now, I mentioned a minute
ago flying under Part 135.

790
00:48:10,271 --> 00:48:15,881
So, it says, or the regulations
under which the flight is conducted.

791
00:48:16,831 --> 00:48:19,971
So, in the particular

792
00:48:20,051 --> 00:48:20,961
including your

793
00:48:21,221 --> 00:48:22,251
where I was working.

794
00:48:22,511 --> 00:48:22,961
right.

795
00:48:22,971 --> 00:48:23,991
For a one 35.

796
00:48:24,741 --> 00:48:25,101
right.

797
00:48:25,101 --> 00:48:33,841
So, in Part 135, it specifically says
that Two pilots are required on any

798
00:48:33,841 --> 00:48:35,691
leg with paying passengers on board.

799
00:48:36,961 --> 00:48:42,651
There is an exception to that, that
some carriers have, and it's just

800
00:48:42,651 --> 00:48:47,251
called generally the autopilot in
lieu exception, where if you have

801
00:48:47,251 --> 00:48:52,561
a functioning three axis autopilot,
you don't need that second pilot.

802
00:48:52,851 --> 00:48:57,901
You do have to have Ops specs
that allow your operation to

803
00:48:57,901 --> 00:48:59,381
use that autopilot and lube.

804
00:48:59,811 --> 00:49:03,221
And we just specifically did
not get that ops spec because

805
00:49:03,221 --> 00:49:04,691
that's not how we operated.

806
00:49:04,691 --> 00:49:06,851
We always did everything with two pilots.

807
00:49:07,371 --> 00:49:12,281
I was able to log legs where
I was not the pilot flying.

808
00:49:12,991 --> 00:49:18,341
Um, as long as we had passengers on board,
if I was the acting pilot in command.

809
00:49:20,781 --> 00:49:24,591
so those are the only two scenarios
where the acting pilot in command

810
00:49:24,591 --> 00:49:29,171
could Gets to log it just by virtue
of being the acting pilot in command.

811
00:49:30,611 --> 00:49:32,461
But if you were not the.

812
00:49:32,946 --> 00:49:38,276
Not acting as pilot in command
and it was not your leg to fly.

813
00:49:38,276 --> 00:49:41,126
So you were not the sole
manipulator of the controls.

814
00:49:41,436 --> 00:49:42,376
Then you're not logging PIC.

815
00:49:44,191 --> 00:49:44,741
Correct.

816
00:49:44,921 --> 00:49:47,161
There are no boxes I
can tick at that point.

817
00:49:47,161 --> 00:49:48,421
In fact, I couldn't log anything.

818
00:49:48,421 --> 00:49:54,293
So, And man, there's there's so many
little Sub scenarios you can start

819
00:49:54,473 --> 00:49:56,723
to get in off of these regulations.

820
00:49:56,723 --> 00:49:58,843
It's it gets kind of crazy.

821
00:49:59,088 --> 00:50:00,798
we'll leave those for future.

822
00:50:01,723 --> 00:50:05,863
Yes, in fact, we would love
feedback if you have questions

823
00:50:05,893 --> 00:50:07,503
on whether you can log something.

824
00:50:07,993 --> 00:50:11,953
I guess while we're on the subject, well,
we'll come back to that in just a minute.

825
00:50:12,303 --> 00:50:16,883
There is one more, well, there's
this number four, which is more

826
00:50:16,883 --> 00:50:23,973
involved in, uh, training flights
and, there's an ATP one down here.

827
00:50:23,973 --> 00:50:32,013
So, um, if you are an ATP acting
as pilot in command of an operation

828
00:50:32,013 --> 00:50:34,043
requiring an ATP certificate.

829
00:50:35,103 --> 00:50:36,293
You get to log it then.

830
00:50:37,243 --> 00:50:40,293
Which is also kind of covered by that
one we were talking about a minute ago.

831
00:50:40,553 --> 00:50:45,153
But this is the one that I really
wanted to jump down to is 6151E3.

832
00:50:47,103 --> 00:50:51,483
A Certificated Flight Instructor may
log pilot in command flight time for

833
00:50:51,533 --> 00:50:56,003
all flight time while serving as the
authorized instructor in an operation,

834
00:50:56,113 --> 00:50:59,413
if the instructor is rated to act as
pilot in command of that aircraft.

835
00:50:59,423 --> 00:51:05,788
So, There's plenty of situations
where, you can have people logging,

836
00:51:05,928 --> 00:51:09,268
two people logging PIC if one of
them is acting as an instructor.

837
00:51:11,438 --> 00:51:15,428
Well, if you're, if you're
giving instruction, then you

838
00:51:15,428 --> 00:51:17,298
are required crew at that point.

839
00:51:17,328 --> 00:51:17,658
So

840
00:51:20,958 --> 00:51:24,828
So let's talk about the
good ol safety pilot thing.

841
00:51:25,838 --> 00:51:29,528
The way that you can get two
pilots logging PIC at the

842
00:51:29,638 --> 00:51:31,468
same time, and you're not.

843
00:51:31,813 --> 00:51:32,683
a professional pilot.

844
00:51:32,933 --> 00:51:34,833
That's, that's the scenario
we're talking about.

845
00:51:36,368 --> 00:51:36,668
yeah,

846
00:51:36,718 --> 00:51:43,078
The safety pilot, if the safety
pilot is the acting PIC, and this is

847
00:51:43,078 --> 00:51:49,708
important, the safety pilot must be the
acting PIC for both pilots to log PIC.

848
00:51:50,788 --> 00:51:56,038
The safety pilot does not have
to be the PIC to log it, period.

849
00:51:57,118 --> 00:51:57,358
So.

850
00:51:57,738 --> 00:52:02,498
Pay attention to who is the PIC
and is responsible for the flight

851
00:52:02,498 --> 00:52:07,808
because the safety pilot may
be logging either PIC or SIC.

852
00:52:08,488 --> 00:52:11,518
and you know, it's more than just
regulations that goes into that.

853
00:52:11,608 --> 00:52:15,878
So, let's say you and I
go flying in my airplane

854
00:52:16,488 --> 00:52:19,848
and, you know, I'm, I'm.

855
00:52:20,473 --> 00:52:22,543
Under the hood and you're my safety pilot.

856
00:52:23,363 --> 00:52:25,703
Well, are you on my insurance?

857
00:52:26,683 --> 00:52:26,953
I'm

858
00:52:27,403 --> 00:52:27,643
not

859
00:52:27,658 --> 00:52:29,638
one reason why, you know?

860
00:52:30,528 --> 00:52:30,948
Right.

861
00:52:31,218 --> 00:52:34,968
So in that case, I'm gonna want
to be the PIC because let's say I

862
00:52:35,148 --> 00:52:40,448
gear the thing up or something like
that, and then you are the PIC.

863
00:52:41,048 --> 00:52:43,568
Well, now the insurance
is gonna deny that claim.

864
00:52:44,218 --> 00:52:49,438
another thing would be, I was just
thinking through the, uh, endorsements.

865
00:52:49,528 --> 00:52:54,028
So, my Mooney is both
complex and high performance.

866
00:52:54,618 --> 00:52:56,958
You CANNOT act as PIC.

867
00:52:58,333 --> 00:53:00,763
on my airplane if you don't
have those endorsements,

868
00:53:00,933 --> 00:53:03,723
so, um,

869
00:53:04,653 --> 00:53:05,193
Yeah.

870
00:53:05,213 --> 00:53:07,093
so those are a couple
things to think about.

871
00:53:07,363 --> 00:53:07,543
yeah.

872
00:53:07,543 --> 00:53:09,763
You have to, you have to be qualified.

873
00:53:10,773 --> 00:53:17,233
You have to be qualified to act as PIC in
that airplane, obviously, to act as PIC.

874
00:53:17,813 --> 00:53:18,413
correct.

875
00:53:19,153 --> 00:53:25,203
So if it's not an airplane that you can go
and fly by yourself, then you should not,

876
00:53:26,173 --> 00:53:29,723
That includes, that include,
I wanna bring this up too.

877
00:53:30,103 --> 00:53:31,603
That includes medicals.

878
00:53:34,293 --> 00:53:34,913
Yes,

879
00:53:36,353 --> 00:53:37,488
So you, you, have to have.

880
00:53:38,423 --> 00:53:43,563
All of the requirements to act
as PIC, like you said, Kent, if

881
00:53:43,663 --> 00:53:48,193
you can't fly that airplane by
yourself, you can't act as PIC.

882
00:53:50,813 --> 00:53:51,183
yeah.

883
00:53:53,023 --> 00:53:55,583
Now, a medical is required, Yeah.

884
00:53:55,988 --> 00:54:01,098
To be the safety pilot anyway, because
you're still a required crew member.

885
00:54:01,778 --> 00:54:04,608
medicals are not just required for PICs.

886
00:54:05,178 --> 00:54:09,398
I should say, though, that
BasicMed now does qualify.

887
00:54:10,038 --> 00:54:13,088
For quite a while after the
BasicMed rule first came out,

888
00:54:13,898 --> 00:54:17,648
you had to have a legit
medical certificate.

889
00:54:17,688 --> 00:54:22,848
It was, it was just due to the way that
Congress wrote the law requiring the

890
00:54:22,848 --> 00:54:25,958
FAA to do BasicMed in the first place.

891
00:54:26,423 --> 00:54:31,333
They had not addressed that scenario,
and the FAA had been dragging their feet

892
00:54:31,333 --> 00:54:33,493
on that whole idea for the longest time.

893
00:54:33,873 --> 00:54:37,673
And so they literally wrote the
regulation exactly as Congress

894
00:54:37,693 --> 00:54:40,433
made them, and nothing else.

895
00:54:40,433 --> 00:54:45,963
And that was probably the most glaring
issue with the whole thing was that, okay,

896
00:54:45,963 --> 00:54:52,033
now there's this whole scenario where I
can fly the plane myself, but I can't sit

897
00:54:52,033 --> 00:54:53,743
in the right seat and look for traffic.

898
00:54:54,118 --> 00:54:54,448
Right,

899
00:54:55,003 --> 00:54:58,793
But yeah, they did finally
address that more recently.

900
00:54:58,813 --> 00:54:59,183
So

901
00:54:59,438 --> 00:55:02,238
Did they address that with a
regulation change or did they

902
00:55:02,238 --> 00:55:03,808
address it with an interpretation?

903
00:55:05,913 --> 00:55:06,333
that was

904
00:55:06,333 --> 00:55:07,443
a regulation change.

905
00:55:07,933 --> 00:55:12,123
So technically an interpretation
of An interpretation is

906
00:55:12,133 --> 00:55:15,373
never changing a regulation.

907
00:55:16,073 --> 00:55:16,373
It is

908
00:55:16,373 --> 00:55:16,763
merely

909
00:55:16,783 --> 00:55:16,893
a

910
00:55:17,298 --> 00:55:18,098
but they can be

911
00:55:18,193 --> 00:55:20,423
of what the regulation means.

912
00:55:21,418 --> 00:55:25,738
uh, regulation can be ambiguous enough
that it, it has the same effect though.

913
00:55:28,303 --> 00:55:29,513
Yeah, to an extent.

914
00:55:29,723 --> 00:55:34,313
but yeah, this particular one,
it, it was not ambiguous at all.

915
00:55:34,313 --> 00:55:36,913
It, it said, yeah, you
need to have a medical.

916
00:55:37,473 --> 00:55:42,668
it was really the, uh, The basic med rule
didn't say that there was that exception.

917
00:55:42,678 --> 00:55:43,028
So

918
00:55:43,148 --> 00:55:43,588
Right.

919
00:55:44,388 --> 00:55:47,738
anyway, I don't want to get too far
into the whole medical issue, but yes,

920
00:55:47,738 --> 00:55:50,168
to act as pilot in command, you need.

921
00:55:50,808 --> 00:55:51,478
everything.

922
00:55:51,478 --> 00:55:54,728
You need the endorsements, you need
the medical, you need all that stuff.

923
00:55:54,728 --> 00:55:59,648
So, I think that that, you know, if you,
if you can't fly the airplane on your

924
00:55:59,648 --> 00:56:06,518
own with friends in the back seat, you're
also not qualified to be the acting P.

925
00:56:06,518 --> 00:56:06,638
I.

926
00:56:06,638 --> 00:56:07,038
C.

927
00:56:07,378 --> 00:56:09,578
That isn't to say that you
can't be the safety pilot.

928
00:56:09,843 --> 00:56:14,903
But, we've covered a couple scenarios
here with, insurance and endorsements and

929
00:56:14,903 --> 00:56:22,613
all that kind of stuff that you should be
aware of, and you should also agree before

930
00:56:22,613 --> 00:56:28,683
the flight who the PIC is going to be so
that there's no ambiguity there at all.

931
00:56:29,043 --> 00:56:31,723
You need to know who is
in command of that flight.

932
00:56:32,428 --> 00:56:32,808
Right.

933
00:56:32,973 --> 00:56:40,833
so, all that said, Let's say you
are the acting PIC safety pilot.

934
00:56:42,563 --> 00:56:49,273
Now we're coming down here to
6151E13 when the pilot, except for

935
00:56:49,473 --> 00:56:53,403
sport and recreational, acts as
pilot in command of an aircraft.

936
00:56:54,423 --> 00:56:57,213
And I'm going to skip over
the multi pilot aircraft.

937
00:56:57,508 --> 00:57:03,538
One's, section of this here, an aircraft
under which, or for which more than one

938
00:57:03,538 --> 00:57:09,378
pilot is required under the regulations
under which the flight is conducted.

939
00:57:10,468 --> 00:57:15,418
So, there is a regulation, I can't
remember the number right now.

940
00:57:15,983 --> 00:57:21,063
offhand, but there is a regulation
that requires a safety pilot when

941
00:57:21,063 --> 00:57:22,653
you're wearing a view limiting device.

942
00:57:22,878 --> 00:57:24,398
I'll put it up on the screen right

943
00:57:24,403 --> 00:57:28,223
that is the regulation under
which the pilot is, or under

944
00:57:28,223 --> 00:57:29,383
which the flight is conducted.

945
00:57:35,678 --> 00:57:43,618
So let's drop down real quick to 6151F,
logging of second in command flight time.

946
00:57:43,948 --> 00:57:44,248
right.

947
00:57:44,328 --> 00:57:45,648
That's just what I was going to ask.

948
00:57:46,798 --> 00:57:52,918
Because if you're the safety pilot
and you cannot be the acting PIC,

949
00:57:52,918 --> 00:57:58,433
you may still log the time, it will
just be second in command time.

950
00:57:59,803 --> 00:58:05,553
So, 6151 F1 is talking
about multi pilot aircraft.

951
00:58:07,663 --> 00:58:11,263
6151 F2 is the pertinent regulation here.

952
00:58:11,763 --> 00:58:17,403
So, starting up at the main text
here, a person may log second in

953
00:58:17,403 --> 00:58:22,083
command time Um, only for that flight
time during which the person holds

954
00:58:22,083 --> 00:58:25,773
the appropriate category, class, and
instrument rating if an instrument

955
00:58:25,773 --> 00:58:27,373
rating is required for the flight.

956
00:58:28,053 --> 00:58:30,653
If it's in VMC, it doesn't require
an instrument rating, right?

957
00:58:31,883 --> 00:58:36,323
For the aircraft being flown and
more than one pilot is required

958
00:58:36,363 --> 00:58:39,693
under the type certification of the
aircraft or the regulations under

959
00:58:39,703 --> 00:58:41,103
which the flight is being conducted.

960
00:58:41,123 --> 00:58:47,288
So again, There is that regulation
saying that you need the safety pilot.

961
00:58:47,348 --> 00:58:51,858
So that is the regulations under
which the flight is being conducted.

962
00:58:52,648 --> 00:58:57,978
And again, here you see this word
or before the last subsection, you

963
00:58:57,978 --> 00:59:01,468
know, so at the end of number two,
it says, or which means you only

964
00:59:01,468 --> 00:59:03,408
need to check one of these three.

965
00:59:03,478 --> 00:59:06,468
If any of those three
are true, you're good.

966
00:59:08,748 --> 00:59:08,968
So

967
00:59:09,158 --> 00:59:09,658
cool.

968
00:59:10,088 --> 00:59:10,338
Very

969
00:59:10,338 --> 00:59:10,678
cool.

970
00:59:11,598 --> 00:59:12,038
Yeah.

971
00:59:12,538 --> 00:59:14,988
Oh, I do want to suggest one more thing.

972
00:59:14,988 --> 00:59:17,478
I talked about an extra
column for seat time.

973
00:59:19,358 --> 00:59:25,318
I also have put in an extra column
now for acting pilot in command time.

974
00:59:26,258 --> 00:59:35,768
And the only reason for that is there are
certain airlines who Disagree with the

975
00:59:35,768 --> 00:59:42,018
FAA on what should be locked as PIC, but
they are not the FAA, so I'm going to log

976
00:59:42,018 --> 00:59:44,388
in my logbook what the FAA says to do.

977
00:59:44,978 --> 00:59:55,688
But, I have seen instructions on airline
applications that say, for pilot and

978
00:59:55,688 --> 01:00:00,368
command time, we want you to fill
out Only the time where you were the

979
01:00:00,588 --> 01:00:02,518
acting pilot in command of the flight.

980
01:00:03,308 --> 01:00:06,888
So I have also added an acting PIC column.

981
01:00:07,458 --> 01:00:08,618
Have you gone back and?

982
01:00:09,153 --> 01:00:11,953
Filled it all out for
pre your previous career.

983
01:00:14,008 --> 01:00:14,698
Yep, I

984
01:00:14,698 --> 01:00:15,228
have.

985
01:00:15,908 --> 01:00:18,158
It actually wasn't that hard.

986
01:00:18,898 --> 01:00:24,763
Well, so what I did is, I went through
the aircraft that are in my logbook.

987
01:00:25,693 --> 01:00:30,743
And some aircraft, I know I was
never the acting pilot in command.

988
01:00:31,013 --> 01:00:32,353
And some, you always were.

989
01:00:32,413 --> 01:00:36,073
friends who let me fly their planes
and stuff like that, but they were

990
01:00:36,073 --> 01:00:37,783
always with me and that sort of stuff.

991
01:00:38,363 --> 01:00:43,623
there are some, aircraft for which I knew
I was always the acting pilot in command.

992
01:00:44,623 --> 01:00:47,093
And then there were, you
know, some aircraft where it

993
01:00:47,093 --> 01:00:48,923
could have been either or, so.

994
01:00:49,603 --> 01:00:53,273
I just automated the whole process
and said, okay, we'll do a V look

995
01:00:53,283 --> 01:00:58,373
up here and check the tail number
against the list here and just

996
01:00:58,373 --> 01:01:01,913
check on whether that aircraft was
an always a never or a sometimes.

997
01:01:01,913 --> 01:01:02,153
And,

998
01:01:02,903 --> 01:01:03,433
um,

999
01:01:03,493 --> 01:01:04,003
interesting.

1000
01:01:04,783 --> 01:01:09,053
And tell me how you've done
that in, in your four flight log

1001
01:01:09,053 --> 01:01:11,133
book, your electronic log book,

1002
01:01:11,953 --> 01:01:17,643
so ForeFlight lets you put
in, um, custom columns.

1003
01:01:17,683 --> 01:01:19,053
Let me actually, uh, go to

1004
01:01:21,333 --> 01:01:22,293
ForeFlight

1005
01:01:26,543 --> 01:01:28,163
logbook here.

1006
01:01:37,833 --> 01:01:38,593
All right.

1007
01:01:38,593 --> 01:01:42,403
So under settings,

1008
01:01:46,628 --> 01:01:52,128
You can see here, all of these ones
at the top with checkboxes are columns

1009
01:01:52,128 --> 01:01:56,668
that ForeFlight includes, and you can
decide whether to display them or not.

1010
01:01:57,368 --> 01:02:01,638
So you can see, for example, I don't
have the night vision goggles checked,

1011
01:02:01,668 --> 01:02:06,358
because I have never flown with night
vision goggles, and probably won't.

1012
01:02:07,068 --> 01:02:11,078
Um, yeah, sounds like
it'd be kind of cool,

1013
01:02:11,088 --> 01:02:11,398
right?

1014
01:02:11,518 --> 01:02:12,628
that sounds pretty fun to

1015
01:02:12,628 --> 01:02:12,938
me.

1016
01:02:14,663 --> 01:02:19,503
Yeah, so you can see down at the
bottom here, I have four custom fields.

1017
01:02:20,073 --> 01:02:23,643
and then there's this little new
field link, that you can click

1018
01:02:25,493 --> 01:02:27,173
and just create a new field.

1019
01:02:27,633 --> 01:02:32,183
Let's do that for the heck of it because
I want to pull up the types you can do.

1020
01:02:32,183 --> 01:02:42,403
You can do text, numeric, hours,
counter, date, date and time, or toggle.

1021
01:02:42,413 --> 01:02:50,728
So you can have just a Um, so those
are the options for your, your custom

1022
01:02:50,728 --> 01:02:54,508
field types, but you can have, as
far as I know, they don't have a

1023
01:02:54,508 --> 01:02:56,488
limit on the number of custom fields.

1024
01:02:56,568 --> 01:02:58,668
but I would check on that
if you're going to do

1025
01:02:59,418 --> 01:03:00,038
A ton of

1026
01:03:00,038 --> 01:03:02,098
them, uh, because there may be a limit.

1027
01:03:02,668 --> 01:03:04,128
That would be hard to manage anyway.

1028
01:03:04,128 --> 01:03:06,048
So I would stay away from that if you can.

1029
01:03:07,038 --> 01:03:09,628
yeah, yeah.

1030
01:03:09,628 --> 01:03:14,208
And one of the things that I did notice
is when you have a custom field, you know,

1031
01:03:14,208 --> 01:03:16,198
in ForeFlight, they always put the button.

1032
01:03:16,208 --> 01:03:20,098
Once you fill in the total time, a lot
of the other ones will have a little

1033
01:03:20,138 --> 01:03:22,298
button that appears that says, use 1.

1034
01:03:22,298 --> 01:03:24,728
5 or whatever you put
in for the total time.

1035
01:03:25,158 --> 01:03:27,058
The custom fields don't get that.

1036
01:03:27,068 --> 01:03:29,688
So you do end up having to
manually key it every time.

1037
01:03:30,528 --> 01:03:30,698
Yeah.

1038
01:03:30,698 --> 01:03:33,618
I was thinking you could almost
make that column that when you were

1039
01:03:33,618 --> 01:03:35,308
just talking about a toggle field.

1040
01:03:35,718 --> 01:03:40,778
And if you ever had to, if you ever
had to add up your total PIC where

1041
01:03:40,778 --> 01:03:43,958
you were acting PIC, you could just
look up the total duration of the

1042
01:03:43,958 --> 01:03:45,378
flights where that was toggled on.

1043
01:03:47,678 --> 01:03:48,128
yeah.

1044
01:03:48,288 --> 01:03:48,838
you could, you could

1045
01:03:48,998 --> 01:03:51,088
And let me show you how this looks too.

1046
01:03:52,298 --> 01:03:56,658
Build my experience report
here those custom fields.

1047
01:03:56,658 --> 01:04:05,678
It does by aircraft type So this is for
flight standard experience report And

1048
01:04:05,678 --> 01:04:10,988
when you have the custom fields if you
come down here to the bottom It shows

1049
01:04:11,268 --> 01:04:18,168
each type of flying that I have in
You know acting PIC part 135 and seat

1050
01:04:18,168 --> 01:04:21,693
hours are all done by aircraft type.

1051
01:04:22,423 --> 01:04:24,813
there is the totals at the bottom here.

1052
01:04:25,848 --> 01:04:26,438
Very cool.

1053
01:04:27,523 --> 01:04:28,963
but yeah, that's what that looks like.

1054
01:04:30,558 --> 01:04:31,128
Excellent.

1055
01:04:31,558 --> 01:04:38,938
Well, Kent, any other, um, last things
you wanted to say about this vast topic?

1056
01:04:41,043 --> 01:04:44,273
I think we have pretty well
beat that one to death.

1057
01:04:44,303 --> 01:04:51,453
Um, like I said, there are a bunch
of little tiny exceptions and

1058
01:04:51,453 --> 01:04:55,153
asterisks and stuff like that,
that you can get into on this.

1059
01:04:55,153 --> 01:05:00,073
And so, you know, Please don't
automatically go and start logging

1060
01:05:00,093 --> 01:05:04,903
everything as PIC just because you heard
two random guys on a podcast tell you to.

1061
01:05:05,373 --> 01:05:09,733
Make sure that you can actually back
that up by reading the regulations

1062
01:05:09,743 --> 01:05:14,523
that we've pointed you to, reading
interpretations, and you know what?

1063
01:05:14,543 --> 01:05:18,793
If you have a question, by all means
send it in and we'd love to answer it.

1064
01:05:19,548 --> 01:05:22,048
We, we like to do the
research to call us crazy.

1065
01:05:23,818 --> 01:05:27,888
Yes, we are that kind of crazy and
please, FAA, don't take our medicals away.

1066
01:05:27,888 --> 01:05:30,048
Heh heh heh heh heh heh.

1067
01:05:30,923 --> 01:05:31,433
Excellent.

1068
01:05:31,453 --> 01:05:33,753
Well, Kent, this, this
was an awesome topic.

1069
01:05:33,833 --> 01:05:34,853
Certainly needed.

1070
01:05:34,903 --> 01:05:38,423
I know that there's always a
lot of confusion about this.

1071
01:05:38,753 --> 01:05:43,533
And a lot of this discussion helps
me personally to wrap my head around

1072
01:05:43,543 --> 01:05:45,363
some of these scenarios that pop up.

1073
01:05:45,863 --> 01:05:49,693
When you get a lot more experience in
your career, things are going to pop up.

1074
01:05:50,433 --> 01:05:53,933
That you're thinking, Hmm,
haven't seen this before.

1075
01:05:54,323 --> 01:05:57,913
And so these are the types of
things, especially showing people

1076
01:05:57,923 --> 01:06:02,323
how to go find the regs to find the
interpretations and kind of make

1077
01:06:02,323 --> 01:06:04,293
their decisions based on those.

1078
01:06:04,603 --> 01:06:08,603
So appreciate this great topic,
great coverage of the topic.

1079
01:06:08,813 --> 01:06:13,463
You never cease to amaze me on
the depth of, of knowledge that

1080
01:06:13,463 --> 01:06:14,623
you have on some of these things.

1081
01:06:14,623 --> 01:06:15,703
So thank you very much.

1082
01:06:15,703 --> 01:06:16,363
This was cool.

1083
01:06:18,508 --> 01:06:19,348
Yeah, this was fun.

1084
01:06:19,348 --> 01:06:22,518
It's always, uh, always fun
to geek out about this stuff.

1085
01:06:23,776 --> 01:06:24,406
All right, Kent.

1086
01:06:24,406 --> 01:06:27,516
So we'll see you next time
on, on beyond the check ride.

1087
01:06:27,526 --> 01:06:28,116
Thanks again.

1088
01:06:29,001 --> 01:06:29,731
Alright, we'll see ya.

1089
01:06:36,626 --> 01:06:37,496
Okay, everyone.

1090
01:06:37,496 --> 01:06:39,716
I hope you liked that topic as usual.

1091
01:06:40,166 --> 01:06:43,436
And like I said before, As usual.

1092
01:06:43,436 --> 01:06:46,526
And like I said before, we'd
love to get feedback, comments,

1093
01:06:46,526 --> 01:06:48,056
your own stories, all of it.

1094
01:06:48,056 --> 01:06:49,226
So reach out to us.

1095
01:06:49,646 --> 01:06:52,466
Logging is obviously a big topic.

1096
01:06:52,706 --> 01:06:55,286
We didn't even cover it
nearly comprehensively.

1097
01:06:55,526 --> 01:06:56,936
And it took us over an hour.

1098
01:06:57,266 --> 01:07:01,406
There is a lot of nuance and a lot
of detail, but hopefully we covered

1099
01:07:01,406 --> 01:07:04,316
the basics and the common scenarios
that people get tripped up on.

1100
01:07:04,866 --> 01:07:09,366
More importantly, Kent showed you how
to figure it out for yourself, by diving

1101
01:07:09,366 --> 01:07:11,676
into the rags and the interpretations.

1102
01:07:11,676 --> 01:07:12,186
And so on.

1103
01:07:12,666 --> 01:07:16,206
So, I guess it's time to get out there.

1104
01:07:16,746 --> 01:07:18,036
And lug some more time.