Welcome to Close it now, the podcast that's revolutionizing the H Vac and home improvement trades industries.

Get ready to dive deep into the world of heating, ventilation and air conditioning.

We're turning up the heat on industry standards and cooling down misconceptions.

And we're not just talking about fixing vents and adjusting thermostats.

It's about the transformative movement that's reshaping the very foundation of H Vac and home improvement.

We're the driving force, inspiring top performers who crave excellence not only in their professional endeavors, but also in fitness, nutrition, relationships and personal growth, proving that we can indeed have it all.

This is Close it now, where excellence meets excitement.

Let's get to work now.

Your host, Sam Wakefield.

I am so excited to have a guest today that I have been a raving fan of for years and years and years.

In fact, a lot of you may that listen to the podcast, you will have heard me reference this book called Go for no over and over and over.

And I highly, highly, highly recommend if you've never listened to the book in your drive time university or you've never read it, it is a, it's a great read.

It's a really nice, short, simple read.

It will change your mental your, change your mind and really help your mindset around some really important things, especially in sales.

And I'm so honored and privileged to have one of the co authors of Go for no on the show today.

This is Andrea Waltz.

She is of course co author of Go for no.

That means that they are best selling.

She's the best selling author and she's a speaker across the country and I'm sure in plenty of other countries as well for lots of events.

So thank you for joining me, Andrea.

This is such a privilege.

Oh, I'm so glad to be with you, Sam.

Yay.

Well, for everyone who doesn't know your background or has maybe never read the book, give us a quick highlight reel.

How in the world did you get to where you are now and give us your journey?

Yeah, so I've been teaching people how to reprogram the way they think and feel about failure and rejection now for over 20 years, which sounds crazy.

I never thought I would be doing this in a zillion years.

I got a B, graduated from Long Beach State in California with a Bachelor of Science degree in criminal justice.

I wanted to be a crime scene investigator before the shows were so popular.

Before that was a thing and, and there were no jobs in that.

The best I could hope for was unpaid Intern.

And I was uninterested in that.

Sure, there was no money in that.

So I got promoted and promoted when I was working at LensCrafters, from salesperson to assistant manager.

And eventually I was running one of the largest volume stores in.

In the country for that company.

I was like the youngest general manager.

And I met Richard Fenton, who is now my husband and co author.

And he told me, like, the Go for no story, which is like the foundation of Go for no, which is a story that we have in the book.

And I completely just fell in love with it.

I.

It was like a lightning bolt.

I went, oh, my God.

This is the key to sales, the key to life.

I love this.

I love this concept.

And so Richard convinced me that we should quit our jobs and launch a company doing speaking and training and teaching.

Go for no.

Among other things.

We had all the same philosophies on business and customer service.

We were deep into customer service and management and things like that.

And that's what we did.

So I had no idea what I was doing.

Went from the retail world, which I was really familiar with, to kind of the B2B world, like selling to large companies.

Right?

That's.

Right.

That's who we were going after was large retail organizations, not mom and pops.

Like, we wanted to go in and do training for large companies.

Companies.

And for that, I used go for no.

I. I tried to go for no out, even in my.

Even in retail sales.

And I was like, this.

This totally works.

Like this.

This concept just completely works.

And yeah, the.

I. I'm super passionate about it, Sam, because I feel like we all suffer from some form of fear of rejection.

Nobody wants to fail.

Nobody likes to hear no in sales.

And so the epiphanies that I see other people have, like that happen to me, I'm just addicted to seeing those happen.

And that's why I have just been doing this for so long now.

I love it.

I totally resonate with that.

That's, of course, you know, why I do.

My company does sales training and mindset training and that kind of thing as well in the trades.

And it's definitely an addiction when you see people have these huge moments of this realization that it doesn't have to be this hard.

Right.

Life sales can be easy if we just approach it the right way.

So I love what you said about reframing the way people think about rejection and those type of things.

Can you dive into that a little bit more?

Because that's one of the things.

Of course, I have such a Constantly coaching on people who's like, here, try this new thing, and then we'll get back together the next week.

Did you.

Okay.

How many times did you have a chance?

Well, I didn't, so let's unpack that a little bit because I'm super curious to hear.

Hear more from you.

Yeah, Yeah.

I go through the same thing, like, why don't people execute?

And I tell people all the time.

One of the things that I love doing is this thing called the 21 day go for no challenge.

And I have, like a small group of people, and we meet on day one, day eight, day 15.

So it's a kind of a weekly accountability for 21 days.

Sure.

And I tell people all the time, I'm not expecting you to go out and.

And prove yourself and come back and say, oh, I did it and it worked.

And I got.

I get a gold star and an A and I got all these yeses.

I said, I want you to go out and fail, but you.

But that means you have to try this.

And so I think that it's such an important realization for people to know that this is not a philosophy where it's all about you going out and being perfect.

It is about you going out and being willing to fail and even want to fail in order to make progress.

Right.

And that's why we spend so much time in the beginning of Go for no, which is a really short fable for people who don't know.

It's like.

But we spend a few pages on the failure success model, which is the key to, I think, the reframe.

And the reframe basically, is that we've all been taught and trained globally.

This is not even like the United States.

I hear from people all over the world all the time, in virtually every country where we.

We've been taught that we're in the middle.

Failure rejection.

Hearing the word no is on one side.

Success, yes.

Everything that we want is on the other.

And we need to do everything within our power to avoid getting no, to avoid rejection, to avoid failing.

And really, the new model is where we're on one side, failure rejection, hearing no is in the middle.

And the success that we're seeking, the yeses are on the other side of that.

That we have to move through that failure and that rejection to get to that other side.

And you might think, like, okay, well, interesting reframe.

Who cares?

Right.

It's the.

The cliche failure way to success.

Sure, you know, thing.

But the thing is, is it's not really a cliche.

I mean, it is cliche, but it's not.

Because if you hear go for no.

And you hear like, you need to get.

Start hearing no more often, immediately your brain says, well, I don't want to do that.

Right.

So you have to have the reframe of this is what success is.

Success is not avoiding failure.

Success is moving through failure.

Right.

How fast can we fail?

Forward.

Right.

It reminds me so much of all these different concepts, but one that I heard years ago is we don't.

We don't fail.

We either win or we learn.

And that.

That's how, you know a lot of what I talk about.

And it really aligns with a lot of this is.

You know how it's almost.

Because in school it's taught backwards.

And so because of school, we have this concept that we study and study and study, and then we get the test.

When it turns out that, well, life is the opposite.

We get the test first, and then we have to learn how to pass the test because we don't even so many times know the tests are coming.

And I really feel like that aligns with the go for no concept so much.

Totally.

And, you know, like, the thing is.

And to kind of go back to this failure thing, like, if I said to you, hey, Sam, I need you to call one of your prospects, and what I need you to do is I need you to do a decent presentation.

But whatever happens, like, you need to get them to say yes.

You need to get them to say yes.

Okay?

And so with that go for yes pressure, now you have pressure of, okay, I better say all the right things, I better do all the right things.

And if they.

If the person is starting to backtrack and maybe they don't seem interested or they're starting to lead toward a no, then what I have to do is I have to put on the pressure, right?

And I have to twist their arm and start forcing them into a yes.

And that's what terrifies salespeople, is having to be that pressurey, aggressive, salesy salesperson.

And so instead, it's like, take all the pressure off of forcing people into a yes and simply get good at making your offer, making your presentation.

Get like, I'm all for scripting, like, I'm all for.

For practicing at your words and getting really good at that.

But come at it with a posture of no is perfectly acceptable.

And then what will happen is people won't be so nervous, and they won't feel like they're being pressured into a yes.

And that's like, the different kind of positioning, because if you go at it saying, I'm gonna make this call, and I'm.

I have to get a yes, then what you're doing is you're putting pressure on yourself, you're putting pressure on them, and then it becomes all about proving yourself instead of learning.

And so that's why I was telling you about this go for no challenge is that I. I tell the group, like, this is not about you trying to be perfect and show up with.

To get your gold star.

Like, stop thinking in the old mindset.

I'm so glad you brought up school.

That's the mindset that we're thinking of, is, okay, I have to do this, and it's got to be good.

And if I.

If I'm not good or perfect, then it's not worth doing.

I need an A. I've got to get an A.

Yes.

And it.

Instead, anyone who coaches salespeople is always like, no, we just want you to do.

Doesn't matter what happens.

Right.

Oh, my gosh.

I have this convert.

It's really interesting that we're.

We've gone this way in the conversation, because personally, in my coaching, I had a huge revelation recently.

The initially, because in my coaching and what our company does, we do ride alongs with technicians, like, really, really often.

So we're in the home.

And initially, I guess because we didn't set the right expectations, they expected us to go in and just close all the business for the company while we were there.

Which, of course, it's more likely because we're in the house coaching the people in the home and demonstrating what a process should look like.

But the big revelation that hit me recently was the difference in training and coaching.

You know, it's.

It's one thing to go in and just close the business for them, but it's another thing to let them fail, experience the pain of that, and then have the conversation of, can you see how by following this process, you could have avoided that mistake and learning through that way?

And so it's.

It's so cool how this.

It really fits this exact same flow of the.

You know, if we get a no, that's fine because we chose to learn.

Yeah.

And total analogy to that is training, coaching.

I love it.

The analogy is doctors.

And.

And as much as people don't want to think about this, like surgeons, you think, oh, like a surgeon probably watches hundreds and thousands of operations.

No, they actually don't.

They watch a couple, and then it's like, all right, we're throwing you in now you're going to do the surgery and I'm going to watch you perform it.

Because that's how people learn is they learn by doing.

So yeah, you guys could go through the house with, with these people all day long and just say, watch me do this, watch me do this, watch me do this.

Close a ton of business.

And at the end of the day, the person in many cases will say, that was so smooth.

I can't even pull that off.

Like, I don't even know how to get there.

So it's it, it can actually be demotivating.

So much better to watch.

Let the person do their best and then at the end say, okay, what did you think?

How did that go?

And what would you do differently next time to make that better?

It's the only that that's the true way that people learn.

You watch a couple times.

The rest is you have to get into the action.

I love this.

So let's do a quick, almost like a quick station identification because it just dawned on me.

We're talking about the go for no concept.

And for the people that haven't read or listened to the book, give us a quick rundown of what that actually is.

Yes.

Good.

I like this question.

This is important.

You're right.

We just like jumped in.

So first of all, we've created a little bit of a marketing challenge because I think if you hear go for no initially you're like, okay, stupidest phrase ever.

Why would I want to hear no?

I want to.

I want to go for yes.

We all want yeses.

And believe me, those people are out there.

I love them.

They don't get it.

The subtitle of the book is yes is the destination.

No is how you get there.

So what, what we're saying with go for no is if you want more yeses in your business, you've got to be willing to hear no more often.

Now the better you get, the more skilled and practiced you are.

Obviously the.

The amount of no's that you hear go down, but especially for people who are new, who are just learning, or if you're going after a bigger client, a bigger deal, you got to accept no as part of the process.

So the book is small.

80 page fable.

This.

It's about a kind of average guy, average salesperson.

He goes to bed one night and he wakes up in a house that belongs to a wildly successful 10 year in the future version of him.

We don't know how this is possible, but it's supernatural.

So you have to suspend your belief.

And together the.

His name is Eric.

Together mediocre Eric and super successful Eric have to figure out how did future Eric get so successful like and, and that that current Eric isn't.

He's just kind of average.

And it turns out that there was a moment that happened to.

To them in their past where they were shown the go for no philosophy and the successful one took it and used it and unsuccessful Eric just kind of went okay, interesting, cool, and moved on.

And that is really the secret of the book.

And we, we spend the rest of the book with the two of them kind of talking the concept.

But being that it's a fable, it's.

It's at least enter more entertaining than if it was kind of your standard, your standard book.

Oh, absolutely.

I love it too.

And for everybody who is listening currently, it is on Spotify.

If you have Spotify Premium, it's actually on there for free.

Well, not free.

You're paying for premium, but it's no extra.

So in, it's a 2 hour and 15 minute listen.

One of the things we talk about in this, you know, in this podcast is using windchill time, your drive, make it your drive time university.

So everyone make that, put this on the top of your list to listen to because it will change your mindset around a couple of things.

And in fact, I'd love to unpack that.

Go for no experience.

That was one of my questions I have is that go for no experience of, you know, who said stop, Right?

Yeah, exactly.

Well, and so the story that we tell that is kind of that central go for no story is when Richard was selling suits for a living and this actually happened to him.

So we included it in the book.

I love to hear that that actually came.

Comes from a real life story.

Oh yeah.

That even drives it home even more for me.

Right, right.

Yeah.

It's like meeting your heroes and finding out they actually experienced it.

It actually happened.

Yeah.

And he likes to joke all the time.

And he says he, I mean from both, from both of our perspectives, we never could have written or taught Go for no if we were like two fearless people who had no problem with hearing no.

And we were like, rejection, who cares?

Get over it.

Like, stop whining, you're fine, you're not going to die.

But both of us like had really didn't like hearing the word no.

So.

So Richard's selling suits for a living.

He's completely failing.

He moved from Chicago to Los Angeles actually to get away from his dad, who was he Loved.

But his dad was like a sales legend, and he was tired of working in his dad's shadow, right.

And so he starts selling suits.

And he's failing there, too.

And this district manager, this guy named Harold, comes in to visit the store and see how all the salespeople are doing.

Richard proceeds to have this great sale where he takes care of this guy.

He buys a suit, a sport coat, all of this stuff.

It comes to eleven hundred dollars, which sounds really cheap in today's money, but it would probably be the equivalent of like 5,000 today.

Sure.

And he sent Richard, sends him on his way.

And then Harold and him start talking.

And Harold asks him this really important question.

Which was?

Which was, what did that customer say no to?

And Richard's like, what do you mean?

I just had this great sale.

Everything I laid in front of that guy, he bought.

And then Harold asks him the really important question, which was, then how did you know he was done?

This guy never said no.

You stopped the sale.

You stopped the sale.

Exactly.

And so it's that.

And that's just really one kind of nuance to go for.

No, but it's a really important one, which is we all tend to shut down based on our own mental spending limit.

So if somebody's just buying, buying, buying and saying yes, we kind of have this feeling of, okay, I just got the yes.

Whether it's one yes or three S's or five yeses, I just got the yes.

So I'm not going to push my luck.

I'm not going to talk about anything else.

Even if I see something else, I might just say, you know what?

I'm not.

I'm not jeopardizing the yes here.

I'm not gonna make this person like, flip out and think that I'm selling, God forbid.

And so, right.

We shut the sale down.

And that's a.

That's a big.

A big part of go for now, actually.

I love this so much.

In fact, this is my.

Probably one of my very favorite topics from the book.

And it's.

Personally, this is why it's become required reading for every single one of my coaching clients.

Because, you know, in a space like H vac or the trades, you know, a lot of times the sales are very big ticket.

And a lot of times the salesperson or the technician is, you know, in all these neighborhoods, they've never been in before in houses way bigger than they've ever been in.

And so there's this huge mental stigma about.

And so they're always spending the homeowner's money for them out of their own pocketbook instead of letting the homeowner buy and being disconnected from that.

That's exactly why I have this as required reading because it's the fastest way that I found to help them break themselves of that from the fable.

So I love this.

So let's dive into the psych.

You talk a lot about.

I love psychology.

Talk so much about psychology and psychology of sales on the show.

That stigma.

Right.

That place of, you know, how do we break free and how do you coach people of, of to, to just to disconnect from the numbers.

Right.

To stop spending their money for them and, and sell based on their own pocketbook.

Yeah.

So.

Well, I think, I think a couple things happen in just for whatever reason we take.

And I, I've seen this in my own life working with, having service providers come and fix various things.

It's amazing how when you have a house, things just, it's like, it's like having like a, a two year old that's always sick.

It's like you're sick again.

What do we have to fix now?

You're not that old.

Like, come on.

And, and so it's like you take the, the worst customer you've ever had who hated spending money, resented having to spend the money and was annoyed the whole time and you take that profile and you put it on everyone else instead of.

It would be so much more productive if you took the customer that had the money's no object.

I want the best.

I want to get this fixed.

Do whatever you have to do.

You know, just let me know what the total is.

We love those people and you put that profile on everybody.

But instead we take the worst possible profile, we superimpose it on everybody and we think that that's how we have to operate.

And I've had people literally sound, and this is, this is really important sound apologetic when they quote the pricing.

Right.

And it's like the, the psychology behind it of of course is you're, you're simply just spending from your own wallet.

That's, that's what you're doing.

That apology is where you're, you're not coming from a to sell us to serve attitude, which is.

Right.

I'm, I'm doing, I'm doing you a great service.

We're going to fix the problem.

We're going to keep it from coming back.

We're going to do it with the best possible parts.

We're going to make sure that anything else that's going wrong is addressed.

And if you see other things mentioning those as well, get it all done.

And if you can just adopt the to sell is to serve, I'm going to save this person time and heartache and hassle in the long run, yes, they may spend more than they planned, but it's worth it and it, it's a must do, then it's such a win win.

And if, if you can't adopt the to sell is to serve mindset, then you'll always feel like you have to apologize.

Right?

I love this, this discussion so much.

And one of the things of course that I help people too with too is you have to be proud of what you do, right?

It starts with being, you know, knowing that you're providing a great service and knowing that, you know, you can be proud of the work that you do or the work that your organization does.

And of course that if that's not the case, then I recommend, it's like, see how you can fix it or find a place you can be proud of to represent.

But once you are in the right place, then it all comes from that.

If we truly care and really want to help, the only way we can help them is if they buy from us.

You've got to be an advocate for your customer.

I remember, in fact we were having, we were about a year into this house and this house was literally, it was a year old.

We happened to buy it, we had the people in it before, lived here for a year, they decided they wanted to move.

And so it was fundamentally brand, it was a brand new house and the air conditioner was acting up and being weird.

And so we call out the guy and he of course talks to me about the silver program that they have the package, I get 30% off if I, if I buy the package, I get 30% off any future work that happens in a year and a couple other things.

And I'm like, you know, like most people, I'm like, well, it's brand new air conditioner.

Like it's what's, what's going to go wrong.

So I say no.

And then I have to call him out three months later because something else happened.

And of course the whole time I'm irritated because I'm like, why didn't I just buy that stupid silver package that would have saved me.

So I'm annoyed now.

And he brings it up again and I really, at this point, like, I want him to advocate for it.

I want him to, I want him to tell me, like, this is the right decision for You.

Because I'm dragging my feet and I feel stupid.

So I've got this, like, sunk cost fallacy where I've already said no to it once and now if I say yes to it, I'm just going to look stupid for not saying yes previously, right?

I've got all these things going in my mind.

So I say to him, and I say, all right, well.

And I kind of throw him this because.

Because I'm thinking, okay, he's going to latch onto this.

I know he will.

So I, I.

And I love being sold.

That's so funny about sales.

Trainers and salespeople, we love, we love being sold, right?

Only if it's a great process.

If it's not, it, we shoot holes all the way through it completely.

So I say to him, I'm like, who?

I said, like, what?

What are all your other customers do?

And then he says, he's like, of all the homes I service in this neighborhood, like, 80% of the people go with this silver, you know, program.

And I said, okay, fine, I'll do it.

Yeah.

But what I needed for him to do the first time, and this is how sometimes you have to advocate, you have to push back on a.

No is it's not coming from you.

It's to be able to say, and this, this, Sam, is where it's.

It's not.

This is not go for no, per se.

Because this, we start getting into, like, the quality and the scripting and the words.

To say, but this is still powerful.

Is to be able to think instead of just taking that no, say, okay, what can I do with this?

Should I advocate just a little bit more and then say, it's not me telling you.

I'm just going to tell you, 80% of your neighbors go with this, with this plan.

So now it's the wisdom of the crowd.

It's not me saying it.

It's all of your neighbors have decided this is a smart decision.

If you want to be left out and be the idiot who doesn't go with it, that's up to you.

But I'm just telling you, everyone else does.

And I absolutely would have said yes.

So there are things that you can do to mitigate and reduce those no's.

This, this is so good.

Um, I love bringing people onto the show that reiterate things that I've said in the past.

And it's like, okay, maybe everybody will listen this time.

It's like that.

You don't.

The kids don't listen to the parents, but somebody, you know, Uncle Comes in or aunt or somebody and says the same thing.

You're like, yes, we've been saying, like.

I've been saying that for years.

Oh my gosh, this is so good.

So let's, let's get a little, slightly more granular into.

I'm sure you've, you know, talked and worked with so many different industries over the years.

If we could get a little more granular into, like in home sales, where we're really going out the, the go for no concept.

Of course, we've talked about spinning it out of our own pocketbook now, which is huge.

Let's talk.

I love the way that the book outlines the difference when someone has a yes goal versus when someone has a no goal and then breaks it down when, you know, the example of, you know, by Tuesday, we're, we're already there, then what do we do?

So I'd love to unpack that a little bit because one of the things that I see so often, in fact I was talking to a GM yesterday at a pretty big organization is like, I've got all these fully commissioned sales guys, and I don't know why they're not more hungry.

They're always complaining about not making more money and they just, they, they seem complacent.

They need some help with their mindset.

And I'm like, if it was only that easy, if that was the only driver, then the world would be solved.

But.

So let's dive into this a little bit because I think this would be a conversation to help so many people in, in the close it now community.

So what you're referring to is no goals versus yes goals.

Yeah, and we, we.

So we talk about this in the book and we all know what typical yes goals are, which are your quota, like the goals that you set.

So it's the number of sales you close.

For some people, it's dollar volume, it's.

It's units sold, it's whatever.

And, and we're all really good at tracking the yes goals.

No goals is a way to keep you into, into action and to really focus on your behaviors and to not so much worry about the results.

So it's the equivalent of a person who.

Two people who are digging a hole.

Each of them are digging the hole, and the one is just digging, digging, digging as fast as they can, and the other is scooping out a pile of dirt and then measuring to see how much dirt they have and how much dirt are they required to take out of the hole today.

And then once they figure out that they're not quite there.

Then they scoop one more, you know, pile of dirt out, and it's like, stop with that.

Just start just digging.

And you will get the dirt out of the hole so much faster than constantly measuring where you are.

So I think that's the insidious thing about yes goals is, is they do tend to limit our performance.

Now, I will say this from a, from a biological standpoint, I'm convinced of a couple things.

One, I, we know that rejection is hardwired into our DNA to not, not get rejected.

Nobody wants to hear no.

So in part, the slowdown and the hold back is it's just negative.

If I can knock on 15 doors instead of 45 doors, I'll do the 15.

If I can make the same amount of money and not have to go through more pain, right?

So I'm try, I want to limit, limit my exposure to psychological and emotional pain, which it really is.

That's one thing.

The other thing is we're also biologically wired to conserve energy.

And so if we think that, hey, your quota is this and you hit that, even though you would like to have that extra money to buy that extra thing, the poll isn't great enough.

And so your, your biological imperative to conserve energy, hang back, wait, you don't know what tomorrow is going to bring.

Maybe you'll need more energy tomorrow, so save it for today.

I think, actually, as crazy as that sounds, I think that plays into it.

So setting a no goal kind of helps with some of that.

And, and basically what it is, is instead of just focusing on your yes goal, so you may have a goal to get.

Like Richard and I, we had a goal of, of getting four yeses a month.

And so we would get the, the four yes sometimes mid monon.

We would then stop the rest of the month because we were doing the conserve energy.

We're like, yay, we don't have to do anymore.

Thank God.

And then we said, okay, let's get a hundred companies to say no to us each month.

Don't worry about the yeses.

We'll get the four yeses at some point, but just get a hundred no's.

And so a key aspect to our go for no 21 day challenge is for people to set a daily no goal.

If they, whatever the yeses they get, that's great.

But they need to hear no in some form or fashion in some part of the sales process to the amount of times that they decide to hear it.

So some people might say, well, I want to get 10 prospecting no's.

I want to have 10, 10 no's slam the door in my face, whatever, right?

Some people who like we have people who are in insurance will do no's within the sale right to additional products and services.

Sometimes they can hear clothing.

Enrich's example, he could have heard 30 or 40 no's laying more stuff out in front of this person.

What about this?

What about that?

Pins every coupling, all the different things, everything.

So setting a no goal is a great way to track what your behavior is and you don't get lulled into, oh, I got the three or four yeses I wanted.

Okay, I'm done.

This is, this is super, super good.

And of course in for to bring this really granular into the.

The in home for everybody listening.

You know, we, it would be really cool.

And this is how I actually always did it when I was in the field.

Everybody listening is I had my own amount of required no's per appointment.

And then also I had a different category for amount of total no's or think about it or whatever I was, I categorized every single thing.

So I had my reschedules, I had my B backs, I had my nose all this on, on the weekly.

And so I know if I don't, if I'm Wednesday and I've been crushing it and have made a ton of sales, but that means I'm behind in my goal setting, I'm behind in my 20 no's for the week or whatever the number was in that relative to the season.

And it's so, it's so crucial and even internal in every single appointment.

You're right, it's.

If it's all easy street, then we're not growing, we're not getting better at anything.

And that's why, you know, as the markets change and the booms go away and it becomes hard again, we actually have to do the work to sell.

Which is exactly what's happened in the last five years.

We saw this huge boom in home services and, and now we're in this lull.

Same thing happened in coaching and so many different industries.

This is where true salespeople start to shine again because the skills rise to the top and we're not just order takers.

And so I cannot stress the urgency for everyone listening to adopt this mindset as fast as possible because that's the only way to rise to the top in our economy right now.

Yeah, I love that you said that with the order taker thing because when things are easy and people are just like, yeah, I want this.

I want this.

Money is no, no problem.

Then becoming, being an order taker is great and it, and it is easy.

And so you, you don't develop and, and continue to use those skills.

I just mentioned something else too, to people who are like, okay, so you're telling me I'm going to go into this home and I'm going to hear 10 no's.

This person's going to literally kick me out.

They're going to be absolutely furious, you know, and, and I get that all the time.

And so there are ways to mitigate that.

And it's not like you're, first of all, you're not going in and you're not asking the same question over and over and over again.

Specifically right in home.

Right?

You're ask, you're asking questions along the way and you're pointing out everything that you point out is coming from an educational perspective based on everything that I see going on with your house, with, with this system, with this thing.

Everything I've looked at.

Here are the recommendations I have for you.

You can also use language.

Like, and, and you know this more than I do because you teach, teach on this so much more than I do.

But even to, so people don't freak out, it's like, hey, based on what I'm seeing, this is all that consult of selling where when people see that you're not just, you're not just rattling off a bunch of options going like, what about this?

What about that?

And it's like, you want it?

You want me to do chimney cleaning and I don't even have a chimney.

Like, you're just selling me stuff I don't need.

Right, right.

It was like, what's the next page in the book?

Exactly.

It's like, I'll never forget deviating for this.

This for a second.

No.

I sold shoes at Nordstrom for like, I survived for two weeks.

I was absolutely terrible.

And the, and the reason I was really so terrible was, I remember it was like for Christmas I wanted extra money.

And the reason I was so terrible was those people were super pros.

I mean, they were just, they were, and they, they were all over the customers.

I mean, they knew that they knew the customers.

In many cases, they had been there for years.

So I was coming in and I'm like a total fish out of water.

But, but also, I mean, they were just, they were just, they knew their product.

I mean, they were so skilled.

So I'm like trying to keep up.

And the, but the thing that drove me Crazy about that job, as much as they were so into customer service was there was always a shoe of the day.

And the shoe of the day was something where if somebody asked for a size in a particular design, you'd go get it.

Plus you'd get things that were similar to it because you're always upselling.

Right?

Always want to show not just what they've asked for, but other things that they don't know about, which is the heart of selling, which is stuff that you can do in someone's home because they don't know what they don't know.

Right?

So.

But the shoe of the day was, I remember one day it was like this black stiletto heel and I worked at a location in California that was, that had a lot of older people and I'm like, I'm not bringing a stiletto heel out for this 75 year old woman.

Like, this is crazy.

But it was one of these kind of non negotiable things like just bring the shoe of the day because you never know.

And it would make me crazy because it went against me selling something that wasn't appropriate for that customer.

Right.

So I think sometimes, Sam, I get a little like defensive because people who shy away from being an aggressive salesperson or what they perceive is they hear go for no and they think what that means is, oh, badger people, hit them and hit them and make them crazy until they give in and say yes.

No.

It's always about what's in their best interest.

If you see something that they don't need, you can point it out and go like, hey, this is a thing.

You probably don't need to get it done until next year.

I'm pointing it out to you for now.

If you want me to do it now, we can do it.

It's.

It's all in that consultive way.

Right?

But you can go for no and serve people at a really high level together.

It's not like a choice.

This is so good.

I love this.

In fact, one of the things that I've written into, even in the process that we train is everything's about setting the right expectations and setting the frame for the conversation.

And so the way we do that, at least in the training and how I've adopted go for no is we just set up ahead of time and say we're probably going to show you a lot of things that, you know, there'll be plenty of things we're probably not going to want or say no to or is not right now.

And that's okay.

And then when we get.

Then a question later on is, of course, if I see anything else related to energy savings or building durability, health and safety is okay to bring it to your attention.

And then those two concepts kind of meet in the middle.

When we get to the end, it's like, okay, earlier said, you know, if I.

If I found anything else, would you like to hear what we found and then present it?

And this is one of those things that's not.

It's directly what I'm here for, but we can take care of it at the same time.

And then it's really, really fun because now the context is to the place where they don't feel pressured, but they gave us permission to offer it, and they're anxious.

They are almost excited to see, well, what else did you find?

And once.

Then when we get.

It's more about opening the.

For us, it's more about opening the door to be able to educate more.

Because, I mean, if they.

For anybody that does sales, if the home, if the customer understood what it is or what it did, they would already have it.

So the disconnect's been in the communication, right?

Absolutely.

And really, you're just keeping a promise.

You're fulfilling a promise that you made earlier?

Yep, absolutely.

Yeah.

Oh, gosh, this is such a good conversation.

I feel like we could go on and on and on forever.

I've just been such a ravenous fan of this book for so many years now.

But tell us a little bit about what's going on in your world.

What gets Andrea really excited right now?

Well, one of the things is that we're finally.

Well, a couple things last year, I don't know if you know this, we.

This was kind of under the radar.

We finally wrote a book called when they say no, which, yeah, it's.

We decided that after all of these years of people, you know, encouraging people.

Here, no.

Here, no.

Here, no.

Okay, so what do you do when you're, like, getting all these no's?

So this is kind of a what you should think, what you should do, how to really handle those no's in that moment.

The thing that.

Only the frustrating thing about that book is after we wrote it and after we published it, I thought of so much more that I wanted to add to it.

I'm like, darn it.

So.

So that aside, I still am proud of that book.

I think it's really good.

There's like 44 things, so it's short.

It's like.

It's like 100 pages it's like 44 things that you should.

So one of them is just like if you're getting a lot of no's, like change your state, like change your state of mind.

Listen to some upbeat music, watch like, watch a couple funny shorts on YouTube or something to get your mind out of the kind of the doom loop, you know, where you're stressed out and things like that.

So it's all like real mindset but some tactical things.

And then this year we have been working on and we'll release it in 2025, the sequel to Go for no finally.

Oh, exciting.

Yeah.

And that's going to be a fable and we're going to catch up with our main character and we're going to catch up with his daughter.

Now who needs to learn?

Go for no.

So it's, it's really fun.

It's, it's a little stressful though because I told Richard I'm like, I am not releasing this book until it's perfect.

We have a lot to live up to.

So there's like serious pressure.

Like it's like the remake of, you know, Rambo or something like, okay, we really need to make.

We're remaking these classic movies now.

It's got to be awesome.

It's how, I'm sure it's how like the people making Jaws too, they're like, gotta make this good.

No kidding.

Oh my gosh.

Well, I am so excited to hear about both of those things and it definitely will be.

I today will.

Today I was today years old when I learned about them and today will be the day that I make sure it's the next thing on my reading list.

So I'm glad you shared that with us.

So for everybody that is listening, tell them how to get in, how to first of all get a hold of those and then also give any, any speaking gigs coming up, engagements, places, how.

How do people get in touch and to really learn more of the content and, and really engage with you guys.

So we created.

We, we, I should say we overhauled.

We've had this for a long time.

But we've got the no quotient quiz.

That's what I really suggest people do is come to go for no.com.

take the free quiz.

It's.

It's a. I think there's 12 questions and it's an assessment to see where your mindset is around failure, rejection, hearing the word no.

And it will give you an an.

It will give you results of either having a high no quotient where you're you're really able to handle no well, and a moderate no quotient or a low no quotient.

And it analyzes your answers and so gives you kind of some.

Some ways to think differently, even based on your answer.

So I would encourage people to do that.

If you want to pick up books, they're all on Amazon and.

Yeah, go from there.

Love it, love it, love it.

So that was.

Go for no dot com.

I'll make sure.

For everybody listening, I'll make sure to have this in the show notes.

So if you.

If you just don't remember, go for no.com.

look in the show notes and G O F O R N O.

So nice and simple.

And, man, it's been such an honor to have you as a guest today.

Definitely excited about everything that y' all are working on.

And, yeah, make sure to tell Richard I said hello as well.

I will, I will, Sam.

I'll.

I'll.

So I'll go for no right now and say maybe Richard and I can come back in the future and we.

Can talk about the sequel 100%.

That was already processing through my mind.

Okay.

So we could definitely get on the books for that and help promote that.

We'll shout it from the rooftops because that's.

It's become such an ingrained portion of how I train that it's almost go for no has become like, you know, relative to our coaching program.

And so it's, again, such an honor.

But yeah, definitely be good to have.

Love to have y' all on, and we can talk about what we do after the no.

Of course.

That's the mindset.

That's the.

The cool part is the mindset there is.

You know, the questions I get are, well, how do I overcome these objections, you know, for people to get past the no's.

But we all know no one closes 100%.

And then how do we get out of the Molly grabs?

How do we get out of the mindset?

Fix the mindsets.

And it sounds like this is.

Is a huge part of what this is about, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Love it.

It is good stuff.

Well, so any last parting words or what would you.

Somebody that's like, right now, this is the first time they've ever heard this concept.

What would you.

What would you tell.

How would they get started?

I would say this.

Create and think about.

Create a new awareness.

Basically think about how many no's you're currently hearing and really, like, analyze how.

How many times you're asking, how many times you're making offers to your points about your checklist, Sam, like, how many times are you talking yourself out of it?

And just analyze for a week and then just start playing around.

With no goals, you can start small.

You don't have to make it crazy.

You don't have to be like, I'm going to get 100 no's this week.

You know, you don't have to go crazy, but try a few and then start working your way up.

And I think the no goals is really fun because it's a way to gamify it.

And if you hit your no goal, really important.

If you hit the no goal you set, reward yourself because you're rewarding yourself for the, the courage that you showed.

And, and you'll build your confidence that way instead of bashing yourself for getting no, which is what we mostly do, right?

It's like, oh, I can't believe I got all these no's.

No, no, you got to make it the opposite.

Oh, so good.

So good.

And that is, if it's okay with you, that's exactly how I'm going to start training it from now on.

Ah, cool.

Love it.

Love it.

Well, thanks for being a guest on the show.

Everybody that's listening.

Go listen or read or both.

I can tell everybody on this without exaggeration.

I have probably listened to go for no and the other.

There's another version for network marketers no less than 10 times across this last 15 years.

And I've read it, physically read it three or four times.

So that's how much it means to me for everybody listening, ingrain it into at least give it a pass at least once through to really get the full story and the full the message of the fable because it will change the way that you, you perform in everything you do.

And it even works for you.

Take the philosophy to everything working with your kid.

I mean, if you want to talk about people that are the best at going for no, just think about your kids, right?

They do this all the time.

They ask over and over and over until finally they get a yes and then they're happy about it.

They don't let the no's bother them.

Where did we get off track?

And let's adopt that kid mindset again around this.

So.

Well, thanks again, Andrew, for being on the show.

It is an honor and definitely we'll be in touch to schedule again with you and Richard.

And for everybody else that's listening, go be someone worth buying from.

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