Welcome to the Mother-Daughter Relationship. Show the podcast for mothers and daughters who want to build stronger bonds, deepen their understanding and transform their relationships. I'm your host, Brittany Scott, licensed therapist and mother-daughter relationship coach. After years of working with hundreds of daughters. And mothers. I've developed strategies that help break generational patterns, heal wounds, and create the loving relationships you've always wanted. Each week I'll be sharing insights from real clients, expert interviews and practical tools you can use immediately to improve your mother-daughter dynamic. Whether you're struggling with communication breakdowns, navigating major life transitions, or simply wanna take your already good relationship to the next level. The show is for you. And yes, the transformation I guide my clients through can be yours too. I'll share more about how you can work with me. It's time to experience the relationship you both deserve. Are you ready? Let's dive in. Hey, and welcome back to another episode. It's Brittany, your host. So this episode is a little bit special. Shannon reached out to me in my email and said that she's been a listener of the podcast and wanted to know if I would interview her so she can share her story. But I responded back and I let her know. I feel like I've done quite a bit of interviews for a while. I want to get interviews a bit of a break, i'm interested in a different angle. I wanna know if you would let me do a live mini coaching session with you, so you'll get to talk about your story a little bit, but I don't want you to come on to just share your story she said, oh, that would be cool. Absolutely. So I asked her, was there an area in her relationship with her mom where she felt like she was struggling or she could use some support in, and we could work through that together. I could coach her through it that way. She actually left with something real, and this wasn't pretend or something we were faking, and she said that she'd been struggling with boundaries and that she was trying to set boundaries. Trying to figure out what her boundaries should even be, and just felt like she was struggling and failing in that department. So I invited her on, and you are gonna get to listen to our entire conversation. So you're gonna hear a bit of her story and where she is, and once we get halfway through, you'll get to hear us work through boundaries, what she needs, maybe what she doesn't need, and some ideas for her to play around with and get to see how boundaries aren't a. Set it and, forget it kind of thing. They're something you continuously work through. They are something that gets refined over time, and there are things that you can kind of figure out as you go along. So you're never stuck in, you create a boundary and then that's it forever. You get to decide that you wanna change it, that you need to adjust something, that you think there needs to be a boundary here, but you're figuring out what it is and you need to play with it a little bit. So that's where Shannon is. You're gonna need to hear Shannon work through starting the set of a boundary, but needing to test it out and see if that actually works for her because she isn't fully sure what she needs, how she feels, and where this final boundary will land. But after talking through this with me and working through her boundary, she's got the start of what she needs. And I think she'll be at a great place to actually go practice so she can continue to adjust. So I hope you guys enjoy this episode of getting to listen to me do a little bit of coaching Shannon is not somebody that I know, so I don't have a lot of background to ask better and deeper questions 'cause I would spend more time getting to know. A one-on-one personal client. This is my second time talking to Shannon, so I don't know that much about her. So you'll hear where I try and go deeper a little bit. I'm trying to ask good questions to help move her along, but I couldn't get stuck in trying to hear her story 'cause I needed to get her to the boundaries 'cause I knew that was the goal of the session today. And before we jump into the coaching session, I wanted to let you know that I have a free boundaries guide that you can download and work through your own boundaries with my template in the way that I help clients so you can fill it in follow the directions and start to create your own boundaries based off of. The framework that I use with clients and how I teach them to set their own boundaries. Okay. Let's jump into the coaching that I did with Shannon. Hi, Shannon. Thank you for being here with me today. Hello. I'm really happy to be here and share my story. Yeah, so I'm gonna ask you my favorite question. What happened in the relationship? What is the experience or the memory where the relationship just broke, or it was the last straw for you, or you just realized, you know what, this is enough. This is not how this is supposed to feel. I think it was about two years or three years ago that I started feeling like I am done parenting my mom. And for many years I had felt like it was my job to kind of teach her how to be with me, how to have a relationship with me and for me to have my own identity.. And about two or three years ago, I was in a conversation with her on the phone and long story short, but my niece and nephew were in a traumatic situation with, you know, their parent. And I was talking to my mom about it and I said, well, they have trauma. And I said, I have trauma. You know, like all of this, kind of just having a conversation. And she's like. Well, I was traumatized too, and I'm not dwelling on it, and just started like talking about validating her experience, but not how she influenced my life and how that affected me and my long-term wellbeing. And I just decided that she was never gonna acknowledge what had happened before. She was never gonna acknowledge that the choices that she made in my life really affected me significantly and. I no longer wanted to be that person to parent her, and she was in her early sixties and I didn't think that it was my job anymore. Okay. So you were parenting your mom, you were doing a lot of the emotional, heavy lifting in the relationship, it sounds like. Yes. What does a relationship look like now that you made that decision? Two to three years ago? It's been a slow transition of me cutting her out in a lot of ways. In meaning like not calling her back right away. If she asks me if she can come and visit because we live about three hours away, I'll tell her no. Or that I have to think about it, because before my response was like a lot out of guilt and like, oh, she's my mom. I should wanna spend time with her. But our visits became very confrontational and. The visits to me were not about visiting. It was more about, oh, you're my daughter, so I have to go see you. It was not about spending quality time together. She was on her phone. Having headphones in or you know, and if I tried to talk to her about it, she would just be like, well, what do you expect me to do? Are you gonna entertain me? And that was last Christmas. And when I allowed her to come over for one night and stay one night, I just decided that even with my boundaries of telling her like, Hey, let's play a game. Let's do this. Why don't you go take my kid to, you know, the park or something, to spend time with them. And she didn't wanna do those things. She wanted to be on her phone and watch a video or whatever show she was watching. And so it just became very confrontational and every time there was arguments and I just decided that wasn't worth my energy. Okay. So things were not you, you weren't getting what you needed from the relationship, right? Yeah. Almost as if visiting you was just a box she had to check, not a desire that she had. That's what I felt and I felt like she was using the excuse of my kid and the fact that she's raising her other grandchildren, sort of. And so it's almost like she said, oh, well I wanna talk to your kid. And they didn't wanna talk to them, to my mom because they're 12 and you know, 11. They just wanna do their own thing on the phone. And so I'm not gonna force my kid to talk to their grandparent over the phone. And if you're not engaging with them, they're not gonna wanna do anything with you. And I don't allow a lot of iPad time and stuff. And so that was the way she was trying to connect with my kid, and that was not the way that I was. I approve. That should have been the useful time, you know, useful for our time together. And it didn't have to be around electronics. Yeah. You wanted a different kind of connection. Yeah, and I guess I was hoping early on when I had my kid that she would have that kind of relationship and be a better grandparent than she was to me. But it ended up just triggering a lot of old feelings because she would kind of push back against my own parenting practices and say, oh, it's okay, it's okay. And it's like, no, this is my choice. Just little ways. She would try and like pick at the way I parented and I of course, you know, put my foot down and said, no, this is my child and this is. My choice somehow they're getting raised. And so that was also a big part of the conflict. And she was also trying to use me as a, almost like a parent helper for parenting my niece and nephew. And so she would text me and call me and. Oh, well, they're not going to school. What do I do? And I'm like, I'm not there. I can't help you through the phone. Right. I can't help you do this. And then I get into my own thoughts of like, you were a parent. What did you do back then? Nothing. You know, and she didn't, she didn't parent us, unfortunately. It was definitely us on our own growing up, me and my brother, and that just continuously triggered me to the point where I just couldn't handle talking to her a lot. And so to answer your question, like slowly, I started not texting her back right away and she would try and confront me about. Oh, well you didn't call me and I, well, I was busy. I was working, you know, and I would just kind of put it off a lot and that sort of has worked, but she's not able to hear my boundaries and so I just honestly avoided some point, you know, avoid the conversations and, do the bare minimum with her right now. Okay. I have two questions to, based off of what you said. So you said that you would get triggered when, I guess, making parenting decisions or by how she would respond to you. Can you go more into depth on what triggers are or were Yeah, I think a lot of them were about what I missed out on. As far as the relationship and how it could have been. And so I see a lot of people with their moms and you know, they're my age and stuff and can talk to them, can do family vacations with them. And a lot of the times it just kind of triggers that thought, like, I can't even be around her because of the behaviors she has that. Like, she'll say things like, oh, well I never get to see you. And it's like, okay, well why do you even wanna come visit? Like, what do you want to do with us? And so I would try and confront her about it and she just would not acknowledge that it was a problem. And so those triggers of the lack that I had growing up and the lack of response she would have to us because. She had a boyfriend growing up when I was, I don't know, between 10 and 18, who would yell at us every time we wanted to talk to our mom. And so that would definitely trigger a response of like, oh, well here you are supposedly raising my niece and nephew and how are you spending all this time with them? And you couldn't parent us. Right? And my brother is in really bad shape, like, I mean. Not a functioning adult, you know, let's just say, and I mean, I am doing well and I'm proud of the work that I've done over the years, but it still is a trigger, you know, 30, 40 years later that, you know, I didn't have a parent. Yeah. What emotion would you tie to that? How do you feel when that trigger comes up or when you think about that or even just see her maybe sort of, kind of parenting your niece and nephew? You said emotion. What emotion. How does that feel? Definitely sadness. Just a lot of sadness that she couldn't be the parent that I needed. Definitely a lot of anger towards her and her choices and what she made she did that affected my life. And when those sugars come up, so we know sadness, anger, frustration come up. What is your body feeling? How does your body respond when you experience those triggers? Usually I cry. I kind of get shaky and cry, and almost always like the pit of my stomach. It feels like tight and anxious, right? Like that. I need to say something, but I shouldn't say something. And that debate in my head of, oh, should I say something? Should I not? And just a lot of anxiety comes up with my stomach and tears. And then what do you do about it? I have learned to take time by myself. Sometimes I will lay down, sometimes I'll put my headphones on and listen to like calm app. I like that. Sometimes I'll vent to a friend. I have a good friend who knows my story. And has a similar story. She's understanding and able to like help me reframe it if I'm in a hard place. And just remember that it's not my fault that I'm making decisions that's best for me and not for her because for many years I made decisions that were better for her than me. Okay. What decisions have you changed? You said you made decisions more for her and not for you. Give me some examples of what you're doing now for yourself. So I am keeping my community safe. That is my rock, kind of. I have a community. I've known them since I was 10, and they were part of my healing and kind of like parents growing up. My surrogate parents, I have quite a few, and so I'm keeping those relationships strong and making sure that. When my mom tries to infiltrate them because she never was involved with the people until about two years ago, and she's kind of tried to infiltrate that group by attending things that those people go to and in turn go with me. But I have been keeping it sacred by not telling her and not purposely saying, I'm going. To these events that she could go to. And I'm purposely keeping my boundaries with certain ones like this. Couple days ago, she called me and said, I made a mistake and I scheduled something that the kids are gonna go to for church, my niece and nephew. And I said, okay. And I was like, email the person. And I said, I'm not involved in that. And she's like, oh, well I thought you could go. And I was like, I'm not involved in that. I don't go to that camp. And she's like, well, if you were a good aunt, you would go and help your brother do it. And I said, are you telling me that I have to go? And she's like, no, but you could be a nice aunt and you could go and help your brother. And I said, mom, those are his kids. I have plans and I have not been to that camp ever, and it is not my job to take care of them. I know it's not your job, but you could still help. Unfortunately, her helping her asking for help is me taking over and her having less responsibility and that's how another choice, right? To answer your question is like I've. Made it a point that I am not here to watch these children. You are. And if I want to play with these kids and my kid wants to play with them, great. They are not my responsibility and you cannot just leave and leave them with me because she's tried that and tried to make them my responsibility and they're not right. So two years ago is when she started kind of joining in on this community, this group that you are a part of and trying to be a part of it as well. Mm-hmm. Do you think that's a response to you pulling away from her? Yes, absolutely. She had no desire to go to any of the camps and she had access to them my whole life, and I was actually thinking about it growing up. I would go to camps, the same place, you know, every year, many weeks of the year. She never once dropped me off there. She wasn't the person who dropped me off. I had my community to drop me off and support me through this and got me registered and made sure that I had a good time or whatever I needed. It was not her. And the fact that she came last two years ago to this camp, and it's for anyone like a family camp, she spent the entire time. Trying to sit with me. I wanna do this with you. I wanna do this with you. Your kid is ignoring me and they don't wanna do anything with me. And I said, what are you trying to do with them? Are you trying to play a game? Are you, you know, I was trying to encourage the relationship and then my mom was just like, oh no, they just said no and they won't give me a hug. And I said, I've taught my kid not to give hugs if they don't want to. Even if you're grandma. So, so of course my kid is at the age and they were 11 at the time and was given pretty much free reign to be a kid the whole week. And with my boundaries within this, you know, camp set thing. And wanted to be a kid with their friends, and I was not going to stifle that. And I am, and my mission is to make sure my kid has as much childhood as possible and not sitting around with adults that are boring, you know, to a 12 year, 11-year-old. So, so she complained the entire time, and I wish I could say I didn't let it ruin my time, but it ruined my entire week. And my one vacation a year, and I tried to talk to my friends who were there and tried to like, you know, get counsel and all of these things, and it just. Was not a good situation for me to have her there. That was, since you were a child, that was a safe space for you to be yourself and to flourish and to feel safe and comfortable. And she had never been a part of that. Never, never until I was 45. Right. And then here she is jumping in and wanting her way. Yeah, and trying to establish a relationship that I am pushing against. And I know she knows that in some ways, in kind of a subconscious way, but I don't think she's very conscious of the fact that I don't want her to be a part of my life or my child's life for that matter, because. She's not valuing who my kid is as a person and valuing the childness of them, you know, like the childhood, and I don't want my mom's issues on. And so I'm protective and yeah, this camp is my shield from the whole world. You know the that good, bad, and ugly. I mean, it just has been, and there are people I don't see, but once a year and I was trying to talk to them and she just kind of infiltrate in and try and come sit with me and then I couldn't talk to them very much because. I don't involve her in my everyday life, and I do involve them because they're safe people, right? So then conversations couldn't even be the same. It sounds like you and her are still in contact, but you just said you don't want her a part of your life. Where are you on that? Because that seems like either you're struggling to fully be estranged or. Maybe you don't really want to fully be estranged, where are you in that? Definitely struggling on the path and a couple weeks ago I actually talked to a good friend of mine who's a therapist and he knows quite a bit of the story of, of my life and circumstances and stuff, and he recommended I write a letter to my mom that describes my boundaries because. From what I was telling him, I was being wishy-washy. And I can see that like, you know, sometimes I would take calls, sometimes I wouldn't, right? Like sometimes I would answer her texts and sometimes I wouldn't. And so he suggested that I write a letter that states what my boundaries will be and what the consequences will be if she doesn't follow those. I started writing that letter, but unfortunately the only parts I can think of to put boundaries on are like coming to my house because she thinks that she can come to my house anytime she wants, and she thinks she's just invited because she's my mom, and that's not true, and because of the stress it brings on my family as a whole. I don't want her here. I almost don't want her here at all, ever again. Okay, so that's the only boundary you can come up with, right. Do you feel like you need more, I don't know. Okay. I feel like I probably should have some kind of boundary around calls because she'll call me during work time and expect me to call her back and think that I'm just sitting around like she is, but I'm working and I'm busy and have, we have our own life. So that's one thing that I think I need to set a boundary around is you need to give me 48 hours or whatever if I'm going to answer you back, and sometimes I won't, and sometimes I'm busy, so I just am not sure where I'm comfortable with in that part. Okay? Let's create the boundaries together First, this letter you've been recommended by a therapist friend to write this letter and actually give it to your mom. Yes, to give it to her and to have a copy like myself, to remind me of when I was like in a good place and not acting out of guilt. So, you know, sometimes you act out of guilt and just think, oh, well I should be allowing my mom part of me and my life because she gave birth to me. But I don't think. That's a good place to be in. And so when, you know, I have been writing it in a, you know, good space of like healthy boundaries, but okay, so let's definitely process the boundaries together and figure out what you need and then actually create them. I am going to give a different opinion and I don't think letters. So I'm not gonna tell you not to write it. This is your friend is somebody that you trust. And I don't think letters are necessarily a bad thing, but in mother-daughter relationships, I have yet to see them work. It usually doesn't work. These letters, the mother-daughter relationship is so highly emotional and your emotions haven't been taken care of ever. This letter won't do that either. You may get a really nasty response that actually sends you into a spiral and doesn't make you feel good. So I personally haven't seen them work inside of mother-daughter relationships and. I don't think they're effective because they are usually, even if you're writing very well, it's too emotional and you're opening this letter allows your mom or it tells her she can write you back. That's probably not what you want at all. Right. Right, exactly. Yeah. And it is emotional. Yeah. So before you send it, give it some thought, talk to your friend and revisit. Like I said, I don't wanna just negate that 'cause I don't think it's immediately a bad thing. I just haven't seen it work yet. But let's go to the boundaries. So you know you don't want her in your home. It derails your space. It makes your space feel unsafe. It might bring anxiety into your home. You don't want that for you or your child doesn't feel good. So what you need is for her to not be at your home. Okay? So then how do we get that need met? She's not allowed there. Are you open to you seeing her outside of your house, or do you not want to see your mom at all? The part of me that. Says I don't wanna see her at all, is the part where I have nothing to say to her that I can contribute a conversation with her. I can't include her in my life, my daily life. Even a lot of my kids' life because she will try to infiltrate that and try to contact me more, and she tries to worry about things like if it was a concern right now, I broke my toe and it's like if I was to tell my mom I broke my toe, she'd call me 10 times asking me how I was, and to me. That's triggering because you know, like she would never take me to the hospital. It was like always, Shannon, you're wrong or whatever. And so I can't tell her about those things because they trigger me and her conversations to me, which are. Always about the kids and about my brother who I can't talk about because he has a lot of challenges and I feel that he needs to be on his own and be raising these kids and he can't, I mean, really. He shouldn't bet, but shouldn't, I can't hear her complaining about him every time we talk and her not doing anything about it. You know what I mean? Like I've told her many times, like talked to her about it. It's like, this is your life. You have the ability to change your life. And slowly, and these are things that, like I said, tried to parent her and saying, oh, well there's this resource and there's this resource. And she never takes it right? And so that doesn't work. And even surface conversations like football or I feel her so fake, I can't engage in those with her, what the, the listeners can't see. 'cause you got emotional. What was that? What was underneath that? It makes me sad that I can't talk to my mom, that I have nothing to share to her. That I'm not able to, I wish it was different. So there's even surface level things like you brought up football. A conversation like that just doesn't work because I feel like it's so fake. Right. It's not even like, I mean it is and you know, but. I don't know if I need to have a script with her of like what I could talk about, you know, kind of a like, oh, okay. These are off topic things. I mean, I have heard that happen before, like people will have certain things that are off the table, right? You can't ask me about my husband. You can't, you know? Yes. So that's, I mean, an option too, but I just feel like it's not genuine, and so it's hard for me. I mean, maybe that's a learning opportunity for me. If you want a path to her being in your life in some way, or if you want a path to your niece and nephews, then that could be. Like we could walk down that and figure out how do you make this feel? Okay. I know you say fake. I would wanna replace fake with surface level. It doesn't have to be fake. If the conversation is just kind of flowing and it's easy, if that's what makes a relationship with her easy, then keep it surface level. If it means your mom never comes to your house, but maybe you'll go to hers, because then you can leave when you're ready. Or if you guys meet for lunch, and then maybe an outing with. All three, all three children involved. Then you do that and then you go on about your day and she never enters your home, and you keep things surface level. I don't think you have to call it fake, because then fake is just like, why am I doing this? But surface level means you don't have to go deep with your mom. She doesn't have to know personal things about your life. She doesn't have to know the things that are happening. She never has to meet your friends or engage with them, even though she's kind of infiltrated a group that you have felt safe with. But maybe it's surface level, maybe it is football, even though it's basic. But if it opens up a conversation and makes the afternoon pleasant, could that work or does that not feel good? Yeah, I mean, that does feel better. And if I could. Help myself remember, you know, like, remember it is surface level and that I think I've had that in my head that it's fake, right? Like it's so, it shouldn't be that way. And so if I could reframe that as, okay, it's surface level to protect my boundaries as I work through boundaries, you know, as I lured my own boundaries. Yeah, but it seems like you already know one, you know that you do not want your mom to know intimate things about you and your family, right? And so knowing that that's a need, you need her to not be a part of that because then you no longer feel safe for how she responds, how she reacts, or her opinion. Okay, so then the boundary is basically creating the situation that meets that need. I keep things with my mom on a surface level because when things get intimate, I start to feel anxious and unsafe, and. Unheard or judged, whatever we wanna place in there. That's very true. Okay. Okay. So when I'm around my mom, I keep conversations at a surface level and don't allow them to go deeper in order to keep me and my child feeling safe and less anxious and not judged. I like that a lot. That feels better. Feels a lot better. With your mom, your responses can be. So I want you to remember that boundaries are about how you get your own needs met, not about how you control other people. You cannot stop your mom from asking questions. She's going to do it because you can't control her behavior. Oh, mom, remember that. We don't talk about that topic. It feels better for me if we can keep things between us light. That question feels like it's gonna get too deep, so I'm not going to go there. See, I've never done that with her. I've never really said that specifically. Right. Like I've said, I am keeping my boundaries, you know? And you know, she will just respond, well, I'm trying to keep your boundaries. And it's totally the opposite, right? She doesn't understand, but I guess I just need to be more plain, very straightforward. Plain language. Plain language, yeah. Yes. And tell her, basically make the response, fill in that need for you. So, nope, that feels too deep. Let's keep this surface level. I really want the afternoon to remain pleasant. Let's not talk about deep things, personal things, however you wanna fill that in. And then when she doesn't listen, because you also have to enforce your boundaries. Hey, mom, you remember I told you last time, if you try to make things deep or you ask questions that I'm uncomfortable answering, and you keep going, I'm going to end the afternoon early. Hey mom, I'm happy to be here and I wanna spend some time with you. That way the kids, you know, the cousins can enjoy each other or can play, or you know, whatever your language would be. But if you can't stop asking these questions, or if you won't keep things light between us, I will just end the afternoon early. Mm-hmm. Or another tactic if you don't want to be direct with her, because if that's not safe, she's gonna push back or she's gonna create an argument. Whatever happens. You can, one, ignore the question, pretend you didn't hear it, and just start engaging with the kids. Mm-hmm. Kind of runaway tactic. Yeah. Or you can say, oh, that's not a question I'm gonna answer. And then you change the subject. You throw in a question yourself. I usually kind of run away. Yeah. But I have gotten a little better about avoiding her question. Or like when she talks about my brother or something, I'll just be like. You know, just not respond, right? Like, she'll just keep talking and I just won't respond and not give into that energy of, you know, whatever she's talking about or wanting me to say. That's her usual. Yeah. So boundaries don't have to be rigid. They can be fluid and they can change if you try to have a firm boundary with her that she just won't respect. Then you can move to make that boundary even firmer. So if it's, you know what I'm, right now I'm in the stage of I will keep her in my life at a surface level, but she's not allowed at my home. If even that doesn't feel good, then you get to change it. Once you set a boundary, it doesn't have to be that boundary forever. I like to use the word fluid with boundaries because we know that rivers are always flowing. And when rivers stop flowing, that's not usually a good thing for water. Moving water is healthier. So if water is always moving it's fluid and things can change constantly. Your boundaries are much safer because then they can adjust with where you are, with how you feel and what's happening for you, and so you never have to set a boundary once and leave it there. Okay. That feels good to be able to understand because I didn't have any boundaries. Right. I'm kind of. Making them as I go. As an adult, what would you suggest? I say when she asks, when can I come over? Do you have a suggestion or, 'cause she just asked me and I just didn't answer that part of her question and then moved on. Okay. You tell me first, and then we'll work through this together. Let's say you felt no guilt, you were not worried about hurting her feelings. And you just said exactly what you wanted to say. So, perfect world. I wanna know, perfect world scenario. What would you say that is too stressful for her to come visit and that it puts a lot of strain on my family between having her hear it all between her and my husband's relationship. They fight constantly. It's too stressful. I think if I could just tell her that, I would say, it's too stressful. It's too stressful to have you come over to my house. How would she respond? What would she say? She would cry and be very, very upset. And then what would you do? And she would probably say, what? You don't wanna see me anymore? Guilt trip you? What would you do when that started? I would, ugh. I would think about backing down, right? Like I would think about backing down and like, what could I do? Could she come for the day and you know, all of those things. But that is not what I want. I just don't want her to be in my space. And I would just say I'm sorry that it is, and I wish it was different. I guess my ideal world, I guess I wish it was different. Okay, so I've got two things in mind. One, if your husband is okay being the scapegoat. Hey, husband. Is not okay with you coming over at this time. Things feel too stressful. They feel too tense or heated when you're around. And in order to keep our home, I don't know, sacred, we're not gonna have you over for a visit. I will let you know if or when that changes. That's letting your husband be the scapegoat. But your husband may not wanna be the scapegoat, so don't make him the scapegoat unless he knows you've done that. Okay? And if he doesn't wanna be the scapegoat. To me, it sounds something like just kind of getting to know you a little bit here. I think a safe option can be, Hey mom, right now I would love for our visits to be outside of my home. We can meet for lunch or we can meet at whatever place with the kids and they can play and we can kind of talk and hang out together for a little bit. But I'd much rather meet you outside of my house if that feels safer. That allows you to. Continue that conversation and she's like, well, I can never come to your house. So I don't know if it's never, but at this time, no. Okay. And maybe that lets you address the situation without being so straightforward. If that feels safer in your body, if it's gonna bring up less anxiety, if it's gonna make you feel less heightened or less worried, or feel guilty, I'd much rather just meet outside of the house. What if we go and do this and you offer something else? And then that'll also give you a chance to practice your surface level conversations. To see if that even works for you, because it may not work. That's just one idea. Your mom may not even, she may just push back so much that it's just too stressful to even try that. Yeah. But that can give you practice and that can give you the entryway into, um, stating your boundaries, setting them, and then having to get practice to enforce them. That is very true, and in a way it feels. Better to just say, not right now. I've tried that and then like just felt guilty about it. Right. But if I'm saying, you know, just not right now, that feels better. Yeah. And I'll let you know if or when that changes, because maybe it won't, but maybe it will. I don't know yet. Right, exactly. And then if that's never going to change, if that feels better, hopefully some of that guilt decreases. Because you do get to take care of yourself. Your mom does not have to come first in your world. Just because she wants it doesn't mean she gets it. She's not a child. I mean, we shouldn't do that to children either, but you know, we give them a little bit more leeway. Yes, yes, yes. That's part of the problem is that, you know, slowly getting her to not be a part of my world is the transition I've been on, you know, because it's just been too hurtful. I've tried to work through it with therapists and stuff, and it's just too hurtful. Just the damage was done and she's not able to even acknowledge it, and that's her choice, not mine. I can't do anything about that. Right? And so you get to protect yourself. You don't have to remain in this situation that keeps bringing up pain or keeps triggering the old pain. You can't heal when that is your surrounding. Right. You also can't make good decisions if you're always stressed or heightened when she's around. Right. I like that you said, I am protecting my house because. That's what I'm doing. But I've never acknowledged that. That's what I'm saying. Right. With her. Because of course, when you're not safe as a kid, you work to have a safe place. And that's why I am doing it. And I just keep thinking that why. Yeah. So I need to keep that in my mind as to why I'm doing this. Yeah. And why it's so important. Mm-hmm. So remember, when you're setting boundaries, as you continue to do this, you may learn new ones. You need to set along the way. You want to think about what you need. Okay? What going to keep you safe? What's gonna keep you in a calm state? How are you taking care of your emotions? Whatever the need is. What need are you trying to get met? Okay? And then that boundary should be set to meet that need, never to control the other person. I need to protect my house and keep my house sacred. My mom cannot be here, right? So, and then your boundaries are born out of that. So as they adjust and change, or you set new ones, just keep that part in mind. I'm gonna write that down because that's so amazing. Like I'm just so happy to have you say that because that's why I'm doing this. And I've never acknowledged that. That's why, right? Like I just keep using it as No, no, no. Pushing it away. But that's the reason. Yeah. And sometimes learning to set boundaries is learning to say no, but I think it feels better if you can think about boundaries as what needs to be put in place for me to be able to say yes. That to me makes it easier to set versus being so rigid that no is the answer. Uh, there might be a gray area. So what needs to be in place to say yes for your mom in order for you to engage with her and be in relationship with her? She needs to not be at your home and you need to keep it surface level. So what needs to be in place for you to say yes? Yes. And then there are the boundaries. Oh, great. That's so, that's awesome. Yes. I love that. Thank you. You are welcome. Okay, well how did this feel? We are almost at 50 minutes, which would be a coaching session. Yes. I mean, I totally had an aha moment of like, because that's why I'm doing this, and it means a lot that I am doing that to keep me safe because if you don't acknowledge that it is, then it feels different. Right. But if I am acknowledging that that's the reason it feels better because. That's all I want is safety. Right. That's all anybody wants is safety and it's my right. It's your right, my right as a human. So thank you. I think this this was perfect I appreciate you and what you're sharing with others and to acknowledge that this relationship is complicated and that it doesn't have to look one way for everybody. Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you for trusting me to do this so publicly. That's why I wanted to come on is because I wanna help others who are struggling with this relationship of just. Understanding. It doesn't have to look like other people's mother-daughter relationship and, you know, it's just, okay, you can get your needs met by other things, other people, other relationships, and hopefully by your, you know, immediate family and everything. But it doesn't have to be that. Thank you. Oh man. Yeah, that was great. Oh, I can't wait to have the hear it back 'cause then I'll write stuff down and that you said and all of that. So I'm gonna definitely write down that this is, I'm doing this, you know, to remain safe. So thank you. You're welcome. Okay. That's it. I hope you were able to get something out of listening to her work through boundaries with me and apply it to yourself. Shannon wanted to keep her family's identity private, which is why we used mom, mother, kid, and husband instead of saying their names. I hope you're able to hear the shift that she made in knowing that she is allowed to make decisions that. Protected her that made her feel safe and made her feel better. No matter if we're talking about her mom or anyone else, we just happen to be talking about her mom right now. But she's allowed to keep herself safe and feeling good. I hope you could hear that she felt so much more confident and even just repeating that back out loud. I know you guys are only getting audio, but. Her facial expressions changed it. It seemed like she could breathe a little easier at the end. Just seeing her shoulders drop and yeah, it felt like she was a lot more comfortable. That is what I got for today. I do hope that you enjoyed this kind of episode since I've done this and I have answered one email question that I received. A few episodes back, someone had emailed me a question and I answered it in an episode, but I want to do more of these. I am going to link a, a form that you can fill out on my website. Okay, and leave a question for me to answer. It can be something general that you're just curious about in the mother daughter space, or it can be very personal to you. I can share your name or keep you completely private. I want this space to also be. Personal in some ways if I can make it personal to you. So I'm gonna create a form and I'm gonna leave the link in the show notes. And I want to answer your questions. I want to give you some feedback on something maybe you're struggling with or I just wanna answer something in general that maybe I haven't touched on and you've been waiting for me to get to, So if you've been interested, you have a question or you want me to talk through something you're struggling with click the link. Send me all the questions. That's all for today's episode of the Mother-Daughter Relationship Show. Thanks so much for spending this time with me. I hope you picked up some valuable insights that you can start using right away in your own relationship to create deeper connection and understanding. If something from today's episode resonated with you, don't keep it to yourself. Share it with the mother or daughter in your life who needs to hear this message. And while you're at it, please consider leaving a rating. And review so we can reach more families and transform the way mothers and daughters relate to each other. For those ready to take the next step, you can visit my website to learn more about my private coaching programs and my program designed specifically for mother-daughter pairs. Whether you're dealing with communication challenges, life transitions, or just wanna strengthen an already good relationship, I'm here to help. Thank you so much for listening. I'll see you in the next one.