Hi and welcome to the Animal Welfare Junction. This is your host Dr. G and our music is written and produced by Mike Sullivan. Today we have a repeat guest, Dean of the Ohio State University College of Veterinary Medicine and now author of the upcoming book, Unleashing the Bond, Harnessing the Benefits, and Safeguarding the Risks of Human Animal Interactions, Dean Rustin Moore. Thank you so much for being here. Welcome to the Junction.

Well, thank you so much and thank you for inviting me back on. I appreciate it.

No, anytime. So for anybody that has not, because you, you were in one of our actual first episodes. So for anybody that has not listened to that, can you give a little bit of a background on your story and kind of what drove you to where you are today?

Sure. Um, my name is Rustin Moore. I grew up in West Virginia and, uh, came to veterinary school here in 1985 at Ohio state and graduated in 1989. I did a one year internship at the University of Georgia in large animal medicine and surgery. I came back here the following year and did a four year combined equine surgery residency and PhD. I then went to Louisiana State University School of Veterinary Medicine, was on faculty there for 12 years, and came back here in 2006 as department chair of clinical sciences and held a number of roles since that time, including, I'm in my 10th year as the dean. So, what got me here, I guess, is, uh, you know, like all of us, we started out, uh, at a very young age wanting to be a veterinarian, and I guess I'm an example, like many people, of where you can go in veterinary medicine, it's endless in terms of the different career paths that you can take, and, um, so, that's where I am today, and on top of my real job, I've been writing a book.

And is this the first book that you have written?

It's the first book that I have written and, and self publishing. I have written chapters in books and I've written lots of scientific articles. And I've done some creative writing and stuff like that. But this is the first book that I have written and published will be publishing. Uh, and it's sort of one of those hybrid publishing where, um, I'm using a company and, but I'm self publishing it.

So, you know, the human animal bond, I feel like there's been more and more about it, everything from one health to the importance of human animal interactions to co housing and all of that stuff. So what would you say was your drive behind writing this book?

Well, I had done a TED talk back in 2016, uh, called The Power of a Pet, and it's out on YouTube. And so back in late fall, I got an email from the founder of this company called Manuscripts, saying, I saw your TED talk, and I think you should turn this into a book. And I said, well, thank you very much. I don't have time. Uh, and I'm really not the one to write this. And then I got another email from the same person and essentially he said, I said, well, thank you so much again. I don't have time, blah, blah, blah. And then he convinces me to get on a video remote virtual call with him. And I came away from that agreeing to write the book. And the rest is history, as they would say. But I will say, once I committed to it, I have found it one of the most energizing things that I've done in a long, long time. Um, just learning about the bond more, even more so than I knew, and the science behind it. And there's so much research being done, uh, just coming out every day on it. And then, the interviews with people. I've interviewed probably over 70 people thus far. Um, and still have a few more to do because as I go into the editing process, uh, in the next, uh, start, uh, next month, and then that's the revision editing piece. I can still change things and add some stories. So that I have found. So. It's so interesting and so compelling. There's, there's certain things that I hear that are repeated messages, sometimes said different ways. It just points to me that the bond is universal, but yet it's very individualistic. Um, you know, between a person and their dog versus some other person and their dog or a person, the same person and their other dog. Uh, it's just really, really profound.

So who would you say is your target audience for this book?

Well, that's. You're right, asking the right questions. This one. So when I started this process, I was asked the same thing by the company and I said, well, actually, it's. It's everyone. You know, it's not a textbook. So it's not, you know, for veterinarians or veterinary students or whatever. There's stuff in there that I think veterinarians and veterinary students and veterinary techs and tech students and the whole health care team would find interesting and perhaps informative and helpful. But it's also for human health care workers, social workers. It's for just people who are animal advocates, animal lovers, animal owners. When we talk a little bit about the content, you'll see that there's a lot of things in it for just about anyone. And I would say even if you don't have a pet or have never had a pet, There's probably something in it interesting for you, uh, as well as the stories that people tell.

I think, I like that you say, you know, even though it's not a textbook, it's something good for veterinarians and technicians and all that stuff, because I think that there has been a disconnect, you know, when I was growing up. The, the bond between pet owners and veterinarians was really strong. And I feel like we have lost some of that over time. And I don't know if it's technology, if it's advancement, like what kind of things are happening, but I feel like there's a little bit of a disconnect between veterinarians and pet owners. And some of that could be just a lack of truly, really understanding the importance of that human animal bond, right? Not seeing it as just. A person and their dog seeing it as this human bringing in a member of their family for care.

Yeah, no, I agree. And actually I was just talking yesterday to one of our, um, associate deans, because I know I was doing an interview, uh, over the weekend and someone asked me a question and I said, I don't remember ever being taught anything about the human animal bond ever, uh, in school or otherwise. So I asked her, I said, what's in our curriculum around the human animal bond? And, you know, we don't have much of anything. And so I imagine we will. But I think you might be right that, you know, back, you know, 10, 20, 30 years ago or longer, yes, there was, there were bonds, but I don't think they were as intense as they are today. Um, and I don't know that back then that I ever felt like a pet was a family member, which I certainly feel that today and as do 95 percent of people who have a pet. So I think you're right that some of that could be a lack of awareness, uh, about how the bond appears with given people. And it's not the same with everybody. Um,

yeah, because we have talked about and I believe that we touched on this before the that whole idea mentality of if you cannot afford an animal, you should not have that. And that disregards that human animal bond, right? Like this, that disregards the importance of that, of that animal to that person and that person to that animal because the animal doesn't care that the person doesn't have money or, you know, even, even individuals experiencing homelessness. That, that dog still is bonded to them and them to, you know, to that dog.

Yeah, no, I agree with, uh, completely with that. And, um, you know, and there's parts of that in this book actually about the bond, whether it's with, uh, the bond with, uh, those who are homeless or the bond with, um, with prisoners. I, or, or those who are incarcerated. I visited two, uh, prisons here in Ohio and interviewed incarcerated men who are part of their family. Dog programs and their wildlife rehabilitation programs and, you know, the bond is profound and universal, regardless of people's background, their age, their mental capacity. Um, it's, it's just. This really, really, um, has, has solidified that in my mind, even more so than, than before.

So for individuals that do not truly understand what the human animal bond is, how would you explain that to them?

Well, so the, to me, the, the human animal bond and, and, you know, people refer to it the bond, they refer to it as the, uh, connection or the interaction. It's, it's basically, I mean, not that indifferent from say the bond that you may have with a family member or a child. Uh, so really. It's it's yes, there are emotions associated with it, but there's also science associated with it. More and more data is coming out. So, for example, there's tremendous positive benefits on people's health, physically, socially, behaviorally, emotionally, mentally, psychologically. By interacting with a pet that doesn't even, that doesn't even mean you have to own the pet, but just interaction with it. So things like just petting it or stroking it. Uh, we in your body or our bodies, we release chemicals, biochemicals, neurotransmitters like oxytocin or dopamine, which are feel good or uplifting type of hormones. Um, and also our cortisol levels or, uh, or stress hormone goes down, uh, heart rate goes down, blood pressure comes down, uh, and there's so many other medical, um, benefits from it. But it's that, it's sort of an emotional yet biochemical reaction, uh, in between us and the animal. And actually it's been shown that some of these same, uh, things happen in the animal. Their oxytocin levels go up, their stress levels go down, their heart rates start coming down, you know, and almost in synchronous with, with, with the person. So, I don't know if that, you know, I sort of talk about this in the beginning of the book, because a lot of times people, I think, think of this as an emotional feel good relationship. And it is, but there's so much more than that. And we even know that some people grieve more when their animal passes than if a human family member passes, um, and and I think 1 of the really important things. I mean, there's a lot of important things, but trying to normalize the, the, the bond and that it's okay to grieve and it's okay to celebrate, you know, a celebration of life or a memorial service or whatever. You know, I think. Years ago, people, if they, if they even were willing to talk about it, they, you know, that about what they're, they're going through as they lost an animal. A lot of people say, well, what's that? This is a dog. You know, what's the big deal? Well, trying to get the word out that, no, it's not just a dog. You know, it's, it's, it's like losing a family member.

Yeah, one of the things, in one of my animal law classes, they were discussing the topic, and I don't know if it's in your book, but about court dogs. About how some places are using dogs to, especially with children, that have to endure really difficult situations, And they have found that these dogs make the child be at ease and be able to testify their information. You know, we're talking about really difficult cases, children that have been abused, assaulted. And, and these dogs just provide that comfort to help them get through that.

Yeah, absolutely. I cover that. There's a whole section on, it's sort of, I'll say working dog, but that includes a lot of things, including emotional support, therapy dogs, service dogs. But yes, there are a lot of places have what are called facility dogs. Um, and so that could be in the courtroom, that could be in a jail, that could be in, uh, a school, that could be in a nursing home, um, for those very reasons, but, uh, yeah, and it just provides a level of calmness, and it also, I think, provides a level of confidence. For particularly in in vulnerable people like Children,

one of my special interests with animal animal cruelty and neglect is hoarders. Right. And I think that that's kind of animal human animal bond gone too far. And I think that it is important to understand the human animal bond when dealing with these individuals, especially when you know they're not doing it maliciously they're doing it because they can't help themselves. So is this one of the things that we need to evaluate as far as protecting the animals from humans and humans from animals.

Yeah, I call it the dark side of the bond. Uh, and I would say most of the, the, the, the outcomes of the bond are very, very positive, but hoarding, uh, domestic violence, child abuse, um, and even, you know, I was interviewing a couple of people about dog fighting. And there is, you know, there's a bond there between them and that dog. Now, it differs clearly from a pet, but that to me is a bond that's gone too far. Way too far. You know, but even, we know that, you know, and we know, and this isn't the dark side of the bond, but the bond can sometimes be so strong that people will not do what's best for them, they'll do what's best for the pet. And that's not a bad thing, but it, you know, it could go too far in some situations.

Yeah, I guess with that we're talking about, you know, with like the homeless and people with lack of funds that they will feed the dog before they will feed themselves. Right. And it's kind of you got to take care of yourself so you can take care of your family. You know, it makes you think of the whole put your mask, oxygen mask first and then put the mask on on everybody else.

Yes.

So of the I know that you did a lot of interviews. Is there one particular interview that really touched you as you were in your journey to write this book?

Well, I would say every interview I've had has touched me, moved me, and I would say in every interview, at some point during the interview, I got chill bumps, and I'm not making that up. It's true. But one that comes to mind, because I would have never, ever expected this, So I, the second prison that I visited was, um, the, the Madison, uh, County or the Madison Correctional Institute in London, Ohio. And one of the things I was, I was at this particular facility. They gave me a little office to use and they would bring, uh, both individually, either incarcerated men or sometimes the staff members in for me to interview about this, these programs, the dog programs, the wildlife programs. So, about the 4th person that came in, came through the door, um, you know, probably, well, I know he's probably mid forties, dark hair, thin, scruffy beard, and he had this huge smile on his face. And as soon as he came through the door, he said, when I heard you were coming here, I was so hoping I could meet you. And I thought, hmm, how do I know you? Or, you know, I mean, I was just like, you know, and I said, well, why is that? And he said, my daughter graduated from your college a few years ago. And I said, Really? And I said, Who's that? And he told me the name. And I said, Oh, I know her. She's great. I said, She's from West Virginia, where I'm from. And he's so what I learned from that, not only about, I mean, the interview was incredible about the bond and what this program meant to him and how it's changed him. But he grew up 20 miles from where I grew up. Our high schools were rival high schools. Now he was nine years behind me. So nine years younger. Um, and so when I, when I left, I actually, this person is a. As a Facebook friend, and so I sent a private message and said, I just met your father. What an incredible interview and, um, and so then after I wrote the story, I asked her if she would like to read it and she said, yes, so I emailed it to her and then she, I don't know, several days later, got back to me on Facebook and with a message and said, Something about, oh, it, you know, it took me a while to get through it. It was so tear, tear jerking or something like that in a positive way. And she then said, could I share that with my grandmother, which would be her father's mother? And I said, absolutely go ahead. And so that's just shows how small this world is. Um, and that was something that was pretty moving to me.

That, that's, that is a great story. It, it actually gave me chills listening to it. Um, so let's talk about the book sections on your, on your book. Um, so I see that there's, as of this time, there's six different sections. So the, let's go over the first section. It looks like it's more on like history of the human animal bond.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's the history of domestication and how that has evolved, uh, there's a chapter on pet humanization on, on consumer spending on, on pets and how much that is and on what types of things about how society is really, you know, Demanding more, more services, but also to demanding that there are more pet inclusive facilities and pet inclusive amenities. So that's what that section is about.

And then the second one is about the science behind the bond.

Yeah. So that, that starts the first chapter in that section starts with the science and that goes to the research that's been done and sort of the biochemical and, you know, other types of changes that occur in one's body and how and why people benefit from it health wise, physically, emotionally, etc. And, and then there are, you know, there are a number of, um, chapters in there after that, that sort of go into specifics. For example, it's been shown that dogs, or probably other animals, can benefit children with autism, uh, uh, elders, or people with Alzheimer's or dementia, and people with post traumatic stress disorder or syndrome, as an example. There's many others. Um, as well as ones that are on more physical. Uh, things like, you know, weight control, uh, decreased risk of heart disease. Um, there's studies that have shown that you have about a 40 percent greater chance of living and surviving a heart attack if you have a cat. Um, which, you know, to me was a bit surprising that a cat versus a dog, but, um, you know, so that's what that, that section is about.

So is it, you know, we know about emotional support animals. Do you see, uh, like a health support animal thing evolving at some point?

I do. And actually, that was part of my message on my TED Talk back in 2016, which is why I think one of the audiences for this book are healthcare workers, human healthcare workers, and social workers. Um, imagine, um, well, let's talk about prevention. Let's say somebody is overweight and they tell, you know, the doctor says, you know, you need to exercise. Well, you know, like the compliance level of that. Long term is not high, but if you prescribe them a dog and the dog needs to be walked or they're in a household and they smoke and their cat is having problems because of that, you need to quit smoking. They'll do it for the cat. They won't do it for themselves. So I think there, there are certainly behavioral changes that people can make that a pet can help them make and stick to it. Um, And then there are other, uh, situations, like, for example, and, and this, I think anytime you go into a healthcare facility, everybody's going to have some level of stress, of, you know, even if it's a wellness check, like, what are they going to find today? And so, imagine somebody going in to the ER, and they're there by themselves, they, you know, they may, may be single, they may not have family, And I've never once in my life when I go into a medical facility ever been asked, do you have a pet? Ever. Imagine if they ask, do you have a pet? And the person says, yes, um, it's a dog and, uh, well, is someone taking care of it? Well, no, I, you know, this was an emergency. Okay, well, how can we help you? That would be one. The other one is someone is, is in the hospital. They had a total hip replacement. They had a quintuple bypass. Yes. They had whatever and they're going home and do you have a pet? Yes, I have a dog. I have a, what is it? It's a six month old German shepherd. Oh, well, how does it exercise? Well, I walk it. Well, who's going to walk it because you're not going to be walking a six month old dog right after you go home. And more importantly, I think someone transitioning into palliative or hospice care. Do you have a pet? Yes, I have two dogs. Do you have a plan for your dogs? After you, you know, know, well, would you like us to help you find a loving home so that you don't have to, to worry about that. Those are just some of the things that I think should be everyday conversations

that that's actually interesting is are my last episode. It was about stories from individuals that have experienced homelessness for different reasons. And some of them were because they, uh, one gentleman that shared his story, he had to go into the hospital to have, um, surgery, surgical procedures. And his primary concern was who's going to take care of my dogs. And this great organization down in Cincinnati took care of his dog. So then he was able to go into the hospital knowing that the animals were taken care of. Another individual shared that she had suicidal ideations and her animals, her cats were the ones keeping her from ending her life. Knowing that if something happens to me, who's going to take care of these cats, right? So just like that's psychological support.

And that just, that's another example of how strong and enduring the bond is, regardless of someone's background, socioeconomic status, mental capacity, etc.

So this brings us then to the third section, which is the stories of the enduring bonds.

There's stories throughout every chapter. Uh, but in, in, in some of these, there's more, you know, it gets in more depth of stories. So there's stories of, for example, uh, and most of these are true, they're all true, but they're authentic stories, meaning I, they aren't repurposed off the internet. Um, so I've tried to get new stories through these interviews, but there's a, there's a chapter on sort of called enduring bonds. Um, and so, you know, there's, you know, when a dog is rehomed, you know, 20 miles away and it ends up at the back door. Uh, or cats or other animals that find their way home after, you know, really long distances. And I'm not talking about with a microchip that somebody connects you, but on their own. And that's fascinating to me and the science behind it and how they, they navigate that. You know, part of it is nose, you know, smell. Part of it, though, is just sort of this Uh, I don't know, geospatial awareness. Um, and then some of it is landmarks in terms of vis vision. And so it, it's really interesting. And, and so that's, that's just some of the stories that are in there. Uh, some of them very, very moving. Well, they're all moving, but some of 'em are really profound

So then the next one is, as you were talking, you had a section on the working dogs and their handlers and therapy animals. Um, so what are, what are some of the, what are some of these jobs that dogs have that have an impact on the humans that they help?

Sure. Well, so I'll give you a few examples. One, um, um, human remain search and rescue dogs. So those dogs are trained to detect. The scent of human remains. So this is not a living person. This is, uh, and there is a similar same, um, um, smells that are gases. That come off of decomposing human flesh. And so when these dogs are trained, and you go out to look for some, for the remains of someone, they'll run right by a decomposing rabbit, or a decomposing deer, or a decomposing anything. And they can smell these, these, um, these, um, remains, whether they're buried underground, they're submerged completely in water. I have a classmate in vet school, Dr. Kim Stewart, that is, I highlight in this book. Um, she has a dog, Seamus, who is, um, eight years old at the time I interviewed her. And he had identified, found the remains of ten people. First time when he was just under two years of age. Two of those ten people, People or those remains were completely buried underground, two were completely submerged underwater, and the other ones were in a variety of different locations. Another would be service dogs. So, I interviewed a lady who has had a, has had a service dog since she was, um, in high school or, uh, in high school. Uh, she, uh, had developed muscular dystrophy. She's had four dogs, um, and, It's the dogs. I mean, she's in a wheelchair and has been since back in high school, but that's what gave her the confidence to go on. She became a school teacher. She teaches. She's married, but I got to interview her about her four dogs, but I also got to interview the puppy raiser of one of them and the trainer. So I had this triad. Of the bond between Ezra and Sharon, Ezra and Beth, Ezra and, um, the trainer, uh, Adrena, and then the bonds that they had with each other. So it's really fascinating. And so, you know, there are every, uh, I could go on and on about these different uses of dogs, uh, and these dogs in love what they do, and they, they have drive for it. Um, so. The bond between the handler and the dog is profound and in most of the things it's teamwork.

Yeah, when, when we were discussing actually one of my animal law classes we were discussing as far as the working animals and how some people feel that the animals are being used and abused by their handlers. And in my personal experience, especially with like working dogs for police dogs, these dogs love their job, right? Like these are not dogs that are picked up and made to do this. These are dogs that are picked because they have certain personalities that make them want to do it. You know, we talk about people that, that purchase or adopt certain breeds and then they can't deal with them in their house because the dog is tearing the place up or running or hurting or whatever. And it's because these dogs have that drive to do that, right? So it makes them happy Yeah,

I interviewed a guy, Joel, who has been an animal trainer for over 30 years with a variety of different shows, and he adopted over 3, 000 animals from shelters. And these are the dogs and cats and other that nobody else wanted because they either had too much drive and he told me a story once about one of the shows he needed a cat that would climb a rope. And so he went to the shelter and there was a little card on the front of the cage that said the reason it was relinquished because it climbs curtains constantly. And so he asked if he could call the former owner to talk to the person, and he did, and he, she said, yeah, we had to get, we just couldn't keep the cat, I mean, we tried everything, we squirted it with a squirt water gun or a squirt bottle, and he said, perfect, that's the cat I want. Uh, and that cat went on and, and those animals, a lot of people think that those animals that are in those shows are abused, those animals have such a tight bond with the handlers. They, they spend hours a day with the handler. How many people, unless you're retired, how many of us that work spend that kind of time with our pets? And, uh, when those animals are retired, they, they adopt them themselves. Um, and sometimes when he told me stories, they would. They would retire a dog from some of these things, and the dog would be adopted and go with the, you know, the trainer, and the dog would go into this, like, I'll say depression, just moping around, not eating, and one time they brought it back, uh, and just started back in one show a day, and the dog was completely, you know, so, that tells me that, you know, and that's just one example, but it tells me that those animals have a pretty good life.

Yeah, we got to think that animals as sentient beings, there's not that much difference from us as far as we have drives to do things, right? Like we became veterinarians. That's our drive. There are other people that are in math and science and whatever. So animals have those drives themselves. So it takes a little bit of time to understand what their needs are so that then we can better help them be themselves. So the, the next section looks like it's about strategies to safeguard the health and well being of both animals and people.

Yeah, so the way that there's, uh, there's a number of things there, but I'll just say one of the chapters is on how to safeguard your pet and therefore the bond inside the house and yard. So that's around poisons, that's around, you know, electric cords that you could chew on, that's, that's about, uh, poisonous plants in the yard, that's about, uh, And I have stories of all this stuff. There's a, there's one, um, where my neighbor, my former neighbor, their dog was out, a little white dog, little miniature poodle was out one night. And she heard, uh, went out to use the bathroom and she heard it, you know, yelp and went out there and assuming we think it was an owl because it had these scratch marks right up its both sides. Um, I had my two dogs when I, before I got the third one. Uh, one time a doe was in the other, in the neighbor's yard and I saw the doe coming toward them and I went down and, you know, called them to me because I, you know, she was coming toward the yard and, and then they took back toward her and she came in and she took both front feet and smacked one of them four times, twice each and, you know, he ran back to the house, the house, yelping and, you know, she could have really injured him. Uh, and then that was a Saturday evening, and I came home about a Wednesday afternoon and just let him out without looking, and that darn deer was out there again, and the other one, she got the same treatment. So, it's, it's about, um, raising awareness about how to keep and safeguard your pet. The one that's outside the home, that's everything from, you know, not leaving your pet in a car, um, and I have a story that's just heartbreaking about that. Um, you know, things that, uh, animals could, like, if you're out in the water, they, you know, in terms of lepto or algal bloom or, um, you know, all sorts of things. So that's a lot of what that chapter, or that section's about.

Which would be extremely important for pet owners, because, I mean, so many, so many injuries and accidents are preventable, and it's just because of lack of knowledge or lack of education on it.

Yeah, and, you know, stuff like fireworks and other stuff, it's, you know, Um, I won't, I can't, I'm not going to say that it's all inclusive of every possible thing because that would be impossible, but it touches on, you know, many of it, you know, chocolate, xylitol, uh, things like that.

And the last section, section six is your overview and conclusions. So what would you say is your overall take on all the information that, that you learn and all these stories that you heard?

Well, one of the questions, well, I ask most every person I interview the following five questions. Before the reader reads the book, as they pick it up, what message are you hoping to send to them? Number two, what emotions do you hope to evoke in the reader? Number three, what call to action do you hope to inspire in the reader? Number four, when they've read the book and completed it and gone on about their daily busy life, a year later, what do you want them to take away and remember from it? And number five is, for someone who's never had a pet, never had a working dog, never had a whatever, I'm interviewing them about, what would you tell them they're missing? So, you can imagine what those various things are, but a lot of it's about, you know, calls to action is understand the responsibility of owning a pet. Uh, if you don't know this, um, you know, there are many mutual benefits back and forth between the pet or the animal and the person. So, yes, you're benefiting, but the animal is too, or the animal's benefiting and you are too. Uh, you know, some calls to action may be that we need more. Public housing that is pet friendly, uh, or that we need more affordable veterinary care, or we need to do X, Y, and Z to maintain, I say to protect, preserve, and promote the bond. Um, and so there's a variety of things. It could be. Um, things that are about law or regulations. It could be just about behavior change. It could be about, um, you know, there, there are a lot of positive benefits of children interacting with animals, cognitive development, social skill development, et cetera, but there's also responsibility and there's, you know, done right. You can teach them responsibility, follow through, et cetera.

So how can our listeners get their hands on a copy of the book? I guess, when, when does the book, when is it scheduled to come out?

The book is scheduled to come out sometime in, in the first part, first half or first quarter of 2025, so next year. The book essentially has been written, it just needs, I've submitted it to the editors, and so the next 3 or 4 months I will be working with the revisions editor to tighten it up, and then it will go to copyright, or copy editing. So right now, people can, between July 31st and September 2nd, people can pre order, or sponsor or support the book in a variety of ways, which are on the website. Um, and by doing that, there's a multitude of perks that other people won't get. And that's everything from, um, when you receive your book or books in the mail, they will already have been signed by me. Um, there will, there are tickets, uh, to, there will be an in person launch party. Uh, and there will be a virtual launch party and, uh, I don't know that all the details around that yet, but that's what will be, um, for some of them. Um, also, uh, well, anybody who pre orders a book or does any of those other types of sponsorships, uh, will get an invite to join my, what's called my author community, which will be like a blog and they'll get regular updates on the progress of the book excerpts from the book, they'll be asked their opinion about certain things, including the cover of the book. The current cover is not, it's not what it will look like. It's actually just a mock cover. Uh, so there will be, uh, I will be working with someone in design to design it. But, you know, I will be asking my author community for, for their ideas and input. And there's a whole lot of other things. Uh, so, you know, if you want to be part of that, you can do so by going to the website by September the 2nd and doing whatever, whichever of the options that you want to choose from.

Excellent. And we will be sharing the website for anybody that's listening so that they can go in now after, after that deadline of September 2nd, can people still, uh, like, can they get in a wait list or something like that, or can they still pre order?

I'm trying to figure that out because the website that, where this sits is with the company. I also have my own personal site that has the same information, but I don't know how that's going to happen. The reason for the pre ordering and the support is I have to demonstrate to the company that I have enough support to actually continue with the book. And I've gotten really good support so far, so I'm very happy. Um, and, um, but certainly there will be ways to get the book, certainly once it's published. I don't know about, I'll have to figure out with the company and also what I could do if people missed the, the, uh, September 2nd deadline for preordering.

So anybody listening hit that, hit that website right now. I saw that because the time is, time is running out. Um, and, and I saw that you're asking people when they share the, the information or anything to use the hashtag #UnleashingTheBond. Is that right?

Yes, unleashing the bond. Um, share wide, far and wide with people. Um, absolutely. And the people that I interview, as you've probably seen on social media, is I'm trying to highlight each of them throughout this, you know, between now and when the book launch or the book is published, um, telling just a little bit of their story, but thanking them and showing pictures of them and their various pets as a way to say thank you for your time and sharing so openly. Very moving stories.

Well, I want to congratulate you and thank you for doing this, because I think that it is very necessary, very needed, very important. Um, and I'm looking forward to reading it. I will be one of those pre signs. And, uh, and yeah, thank you so much for being here.

Well, thank you for inviting me, but more importantly, thank you for all you do, both with your, your animal welfare connection, but also, uh, is it connection or junction?

Junction.

Junction. Yeah. Uh, either way. Um, and all you do in the community. I mean, whether it's mentoring our veterinary students or, you know, providing care for the vulnerable populations of people and animals to, uh, you're amazing in all you do. So thank you for that.

Well, thank you so much for saying that. It means a lot coming from you. So for everybody that's listening, Unleashing THE Bond, check it out, pre-sign, read it, get it. And, uh, thank, as always, thank you for listening and thank you for caring.

Wonderful.