1
00:00:03,930 --> 00:00:07,080
Matt Edmundson: Well, hello there
and welcome to the e-Commerce podcast

2
00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:08,730
with me, your host, Matt Edmundson.

3
00:00:08,970 --> 00:00:14,880
The eCommerce podcast is all about
helping you deliver e-commerce wow.

4
00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:19,920
And to help us do this, that I am
chatting with my very special guest

5
00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:25,590
today, Yoni Kozminski from Multiply
Mii and  Escala about how to scale

6
00:00:25,590 --> 00:00:28,759
your business with the right talent.

7
00:00:28,759 --> 00:00:29,369
Let me tell you.

8
00:00:30,349 --> 00:00:32,369
Problem, problem we've all faced.

9
00:00:32,369 --> 00:00:34,751
And if you've not faced it yet, cuz you've
just started out, let me tell you, you

10
00:00:34,756 --> 00:00:36,870
are gonna face this particular problem.

11
00:00:37,170 --> 00:00:42,540
But before we jump into that conversation,
let me suggest a few other, uh,

12
00:00:42,570 --> 00:00:45,989
e-commerce podcast episodes that I
think you're gonna enjoy listening to.

13
00:00:46,349 --> 00:00:51,089
Uh, the first one is Jesse Schoberg,
where we talked about outsourcing

14
00:00:51,089 --> 00:00:56,459
remote teams and blogging your
way to bigger e-commerce profits.

15
00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:58,260
That was a great conversation with Jesse.

16
00:00:58,260 --> 00:00:59,650
He's such a legend.

17
00:00:59,650 --> 00:01:00,169
Legend.

18
00:01:00,660 --> 00:01:03,300
He's also a legend, uh, as is JJ Resnick.

19
00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:04,019
That was great.

20
00:01:04,050 --> 00:01:07,440
Uh, eight step blueprint for building
a successful e-commerce business.

21
00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:09,420
Still remember that
conversation super well.

22
00:01:09,420 --> 00:01:10,770
Still got the notes, still look to them.

23
00:01:11,369 --> 00:01:14,759
Uh, you can find these as well
as our entire archive of episodes

24
00:01:14,759 --> 00:01:21,190
on our website for free, uh,
at www.eCommerce-podcast.net.

25
00:01:22,035 --> 00:01:27,524
No idea why I said www, because no one
says that anymore, but apparently I did.

26
00:01:27,794 --> 00:01:31,725
Anyway, this episode is brought to
you by the e-commerce cohort, which

27
00:01:31,725 --> 00:01:33,554
helps you deliver e-commerce wow.

28
00:01:33,554 --> 00:01:35,145
To your customers.

29
00:01:35,625 --> 00:01:41,414
I can tell you back in, well, a few years
ago, I nearly lost everything online.

30
00:01:41,414 --> 00:01:44,755
Let me tell you, our business almost
collapsed overnight, and there are

31
00:01:44,755 --> 00:01:47,755
lots of reasons as to why this event.

32
00:01:48,170 --> 00:01:51,410
Happened, Uh, and we were turning
over 6 million a year online at

33
00:01:51,410 --> 00:01:55,280
the time, but I can tell you,
uh, why it almost went to zero.

34
00:01:55,699 --> 00:01:59,399
Uh, Principally because I'd got siloed.

35
00:01:59,399 --> 00:02:02,670
In other words, I'd become really
good at one or two things, but I'd

36
00:02:02,675 --> 00:02:07,170
missed the rest of the big picture
where e-commerce is concerned.

37
00:02:07,170 --> 00:02:09,570
And that's what e-commerce
cohort is all about.

38
00:02:09,570 --> 00:02:11,670
It's helping you solve
that particular problem.

39
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,910
It's a lightweight membership
group with guided monthly sprints.

40
00:02:14,910 --> 00:02:19,769
It's cycle through all of the key areas
of e-commerce, not just one of them.

41
00:02:19,769 --> 00:02:20,370
Not just term.

42
00:02:20,609 --> 00:02:22,260
It doesn't just pick on one or two bits.

43
00:02:22,410 --> 00:02:24,120
It covers the entire.

44
00:02:24,275 --> 00:02:24,995
Spectrum.

45
00:02:25,115 --> 00:02:27,155
It's lightweight, it's
easy to get involved with.

46
00:02:27,155 --> 00:02:28,385
So do check it out.

47
00:02:28,385 --> 00:02:33,335
It is gonna radically help you, uh, if you
in are in e-commerce, regardless of where

48
00:02:33,340 --> 00:02:34,655
you are at on your e-commerce journey.

49
00:02:34,655 --> 00:02:36,995
You could be starting at, you
could be like me, You could be well

50
00:02:36,995 --> 00:02:40,565
established or well established,
e-commerce as I like to say.

51
00:02:40,745 --> 00:02:44,405
But wherever you are on that
journey, do check it out because it.

52
00:02:44,875 --> 00:02:45,835
Quite extraordinary.

53
00:02:46,075 --> 00:02:48,745
Uh, you can find out more
information at the website.

54
00:02:48,745 --> 00:02:56,245
Let's do the w www.ecommercecohort.com,
or, uh, if you, you know, you forgot the

55
00:02:56,735 --> 00:03:00,625
www bit because you, you've never used
that, just go to e-commerce cohort.com.

56
00:03:03,150 --> 00:03:07,170
Or email me directly at
matt@ecommercepodcast.net with

57
00:03:07,170 --> 00:03:08,490
any questions that you've got.

58
00:03:08,550 --> 00:03:10,440
I will try my level best to answer them.

59
00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:11,579
Honestly, super proud of it.

60
00:03:11,585 --> 00:03:12,510
It's an amazing thing.

61
00:03:13,140 --> 00:03:18,770
All of that said, without further ado, uh,
let's check out my conversation with Yoni.

62
00:03:19,269 --> 00:03:22,399
Well, I am here with Yoni Kozminski.

63
00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:27,700
Uh, he is an entrepreneur and business
consultant with over two decades of

64
00:03:27,700 --> 00:03:30,310
experience in scaling businesses.

65
00:03:30,850 --> 00:03:34,840
Uh, over the years, he has helped
develop digital strategists for some of

66
00:03:34,845 --> 00:03:36,940
the world's biggest brands, including.

67
00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,690
Get your notebooks out because
you're gonna wanna make a note

68
00:03:39,690 --> 00:03:43,230
of these Mercedes-Benz for all
of you have in a midlife crisis.

69
00:03:43,230 --> 00:03:44,670
You can, uh, talk to Yai about it.

70
00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:50,370
Uh, MasterCard, Sony, Medtronic,
uh, diet, Medtronic diabetes, Uh,

71
00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,130
the list goes on and on and on.

72
00:03:53,130 --> 00:03:58,980
His experiences eventually led to the
creation of Escala and Multiply Mii two

73
00:03:58,980 --> 00:04:01,170
companies that help businesses achieve.

74
00:04:02,110 --> 00:04:02,710
Growth.

75
00:04:03,250 --> 00:04:08,350
Now, besides being an awesome
entrepreneur, Yi is also a seasoned

76
00:04:08,355 --> 00:04:14,140
podcaster himself, and it's always, always
interesting when you interview Podcasters.

77
00:04:15,670 --> 00:04:19,990
, uh, his Successful Scales podcast is
centered on questions relating to growing,

78
00:04:20,380 --> 00:04:25,180
uh, selling and acquiring and scaling
a business and what comes with it.

79
00:04:25,180 --> 00:04:28,830
Now, if you are looking to
take your business to the next.

80
00:04:29,385 --> 00:04:33,135
You're not gonna wanna miss
out on this conversation.

81
00:04:33,375 --> 00:04:35,265
I'm super excited to have you here, Yoni.

82
00:04:35,265 --> 00:04:38,804
Thanks for being here because we were
talking before we hit the record button.

83
00:04:38,924 --> 00:04:42,164
We've got some very good mutual
friends, uh, in this whole space,

84
00:04:42,645 --> 00:04:44,594
and so super stoked to be here.

85
00:04:44,594 --> 00:04:47,025
Thanks so much for joining
us all the way from Tel Aviv.

86
00:04:47,775 --> 00:04:50,414
Yoni Kozminski: Matt, it's
an absolute honor to be here.

87
00:04:50,414 --> 00:04:53,984
We do have some good mutual friends,
which know it makes me know that

88
00:04:53,984 --> 00:04:55,604
I'm in good company here and.

89
00:04:56,025 --> 00:04:56,475
Wow.

90
00:04:56,475 --> 00:04:57,375
I'm already sitting here.

91
00:04:57,375 --> 00:04:58,365
I'm taking notes.

92
00:04:58,395 --> 00:04:59,505
Uh, what an intro

93
00:05:02,745 --> 00:05:04,995
Matt Edmundson: It's interesting
actually because, uh, one of the thing

94
00:05:05,055 --> 00:05:08,205
you are a newly, one of the things I
didn't say in the intro was, you are a

95
00:05:08,205 --> 00:05:10,605
newly crowned dad from what I can see.

96
00:05:11,070 --> 00:05:11,789
How's that all

97
00:05:11,789 --> 00:05:12,239
Yoni Kozminski: going?

98
00:05:12,239 --> 00:05:13,590
I am indeed, mate.

99
00:05:13,590 --> 00:05:17,789
Your team is on another level
when it comes to their recon work.

100
00:05:17,820 --> 00:05:21,780
Uh, so shout out, shout out to the
production quality right there.

101
00:05:21,780 --> 00:05:25,590
But, uh, yeah, I've got a, so I've got a
three and a half month old at home, Leo.

102
00:05:25,620 --> 00:05:30,615
And, uh, It's, it's the best, it's best
job in the world, uh, to put it lightly.

103
00:05:30,765 --> 00:05:32,025
It's the best thing ever.

104
00:05:32,295 --> 00:05:32,775
Um,

105
00:05:32,925 --> 00:05:33,645
Matt Edmundson: oh, it's great.

106
00:05:34,065 --> 00:05:34,875
Congratulations.

107
00:05:34,905 --> 00:05:37,905
Cause Father's Day, uh, Father's
Day was yesterday, right?

108
00:05:37,905 --> 00:05:40,485
So, uh, that was your first Father's Day.

109
00:05:40,485 --> 00:05:41,355
What did you get up to?

110
00:05:41,355 --> 00:05:41,745
What did you do?

111
00:05:42,310 --> 00:05:43,780
Yoni Kozminski: I'm glad
you asked that, Matt.

112
00:05:43,780 --> 00:05:47,800
And I know that my, uh, fiance likely
will never listen to anything that I

113
00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,610
put out into the world here, so I'll
just say she did absolutely nothing.

114
00:05:51,730 --> 00:05:55,960
Uh, um, she was very surprised when I
said, you know, it's Father's Day today

115
00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:00,310
while I was, I was very aware when it
was Mother's Day a few months ago and

116
00:06:00,310 --> 00:06:02,650
made sure to get a Flowers Trader.

117
00:06:02,650 --> 00:06:02,860
Yeah.

118
00:06:02,860 --> 00:06:05,920
And, and what I've learned through
this journey, Matt, is that.

119
00:06:06,685 --> 00:06:07,705
Through the pregnancy.

120
00:06:07,705 --> 00:06:09,445
It was, How's Tali?

121
00:06:09,745 --> 00:06:11,485
How's, you know, how's it all going?

122
00:06:11,485 --> 00:06:12,295
How's the dog?

123
00:06:12,295 --> 00:06:14,034
We've got a pit bull at home, Dusty.

124
00:06:14,115 --> 00:06:14,474
Mm-hmm.

125
00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,094
. And then, you know, people
sel the mask about you.

126
00:06:17,094 --> 00:06:18,835
And now it's, How's the baby?

127
00:06:19,705 --> 00:06:21,505
How's Tali, how's Dusty?

128
00:06:21,505 --> 00:06:25,215
And then you are just sort of off here
into the left, like totally irrelevant.

129
00:06:25,735 --> 00:06:29,784
Um, so it was no surprise that Father's
Day was, uh, pretty unhelpful for me.

130
00:06:29,784 --> 00:06:32,605
But I'd have to say I'm just
happy to be a father and, uh,

131
00:06:32,605 --> 00:06:34,015
you know, putting in the work.

132
00:06:34,695 --> 00:06:36,734
Matt Edmundson: Yeah,
Yeah, absolutely it does.

133
00:06:36,914 --> 00:06:41,895
Father's Day, I thought, cuz I, I have
three kids, uh, myself and I've been

134
00:06:41,895 --> 00:06:43,424
through several father's days now.

135
00:06:44,235 --> 00:06:49,665
And it's one of those things where
you kind of, it , all you can do at

136
00:06:49,665 --> 00:06:55,155
the end of the day is just go, I am
really, really grateful for my kids.

137
00:06:55,275 --> 00:06:58,725
Uh, and the rest of it's
just, it's just all good fun.

138
00:06:58,730 --> 00:07:03,225
My, my son sent me, um, I'm
gonna show it to you, Yoni.

139
00:07:03,230 --> 00:07:06,865
Uh, I appreciate if you are listening
to this podcast, you won't be able

140
00:07:07,135 --> 00:07:09,145
to see what I'm about to show him.

141
00:07:09,565 --> 00:07:14,155
Uh, but uh, if you check out the video,
you will be able to see it on there

142
00:07:14,155 --> 00:07:15,865
because it is something to behold.

143
00:07:16,284 --> 00:07:17,635
Uh, I dunno if you can make that

144
00:07:17,635 --> 00:07:22,135
Yoni Kozminski: out, , I, I
can definitely make that out.

145
00:07:23,275 --> 00:07:26,215
. 
Matt Edmundson: So this is the
statue of David to which my

146
00:07:26,215 --> 00:07:29,365
son, uh, photoshopped my face,

147
00:07:30,234 --> 00:07:30,655
Yoni Kozminski: that.

148
00:07:31,180 --> 00:07:32,320
Brilliant.

149
00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:33,610
That is brilliant.

150
00:07:33,610 --> 00:07:34,720
I say that Josh.

151
00:07:35,050 --> 00:07:35,950
Josh is your son.

152
00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:36,970
Yeah.

153
00:07:36,970 --> 00:07:36,971
Yeah.

154
00:07:36,976 --> 00:07:37,060
Yeah.

155
00:07:37,980 --> 00:07:40,500
Josh well played, uh, well played.

156
00:07:40,500 --> 00:07:42,990
That is some impressive
Photoshop work, I must say.

157
00:07:45,330 --> 00:07:49,110
Matt Edmundson: I had, um, I had
a, Zach, my, uh, middle child, he

158
00:07:49,110 --> 00:07:52,380
sent me a, a card with, uh, you
know, the helium balloons on it.

159
00:07:52,590 --> 00:07:52,680
Yep.

160
00:07:53,445 --> 00:07:57,585
And, um, Zach and I have this standing
joke cuz we both like to go to the

161
00:07:57,585 --> 00:08:02,055
gym and Zach is now stronger than
me in about 80% of the the lifts.

162
00:08:02,235 --> 00:08:02,655
How does that feel?

163
00:08:02,895 --> 00:08:05,715
And so he, he, Oh mate,
that's just, just horrible

164
00:08:06,375 --> 00:08:10,515
It's a mixture of both pride and
contempt all at the same time.

165
00:08:11,025 --> 00:08:12,285
, I'm like, you go bud.

166
00:08:12,285 --> 00:08:13,215
You're doing really well.

167
00:08:13,215 --> 00:08:16,855
But the other half of 'em is like,
I've gotta work harder to try and.

168
00:08:17,655 --> 00:08:20,655
So he, he had the picture of the helium
balloons on the front of the card

169
00:08:20,655 --> 00:08:23,505
and it just said, Dad, this reminded
me of what you can bench press,

170
00:08:25,775 --> 00:08:26,645
Yoni Kozminski: Oh my God.

171
00:08:27,645 --> 00:08:29,415
Matt Edmundson: So this is what
you've got to look forward to.

172
00:08:29,415 --> 00:08:31,515
Zoe, my daughter, she wrote in my card.

173
00:08:31,875 --> 00:08:33,885
Uh, Dad, Happy Father's Day.

174
00:08:34,580 --> 00:08:38,000
Um, behind every great parent
is a great, amazing daughter

175
00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:40,820
. 
Yoni Kozminski: That is.

176
00:08:40,825 --> 00:08:46,040
I was like, this is, this is English,
Northern English Humor 1 0 1 right here.

177
00:08:46,100 --> 00:08:50,000
Um, literally every single one of
your kids has had a brilliant dig

178
00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:51,880
at you in some way, shape, or form.

179
00:08:52,530 --> 00:08:52,860
Bravo.

180
00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:53,970
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

181
00:08:53,970 --> 00:08:54,180
Yeah.

182
00:08:54,180 --> 00:08:55,410
It's the way of the future, right?

183
00:08:55,410 --> 00:08:58,680
So I appreciate dear listener, that
by the time you're listening to this,

184
00:08:58,680 --> 00:09:00,540
it is very far away from Father's Day.

185
00:09:00,810 --> 00:09:02,910
Uh, but at the time of
recording, we've just had it.

186
00:09:02,915 --> 00:09:07,050
And so, uh, all that to say you only
congratulations, uh, on the, the new.

187
00:09:07,350 --> 00:09:09,720
And the other thing I wanted
to congratulate you on was

188
00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,130
the ability to do a back flip.

189
00:09:11,190 --> 00:09:14,340
I have some serious envy, uh, on that.

190
00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:16,290
And, uh, so well done.

191
00:09:16,745 --> 00:09:19,325
Yoni Kozminski: Mate, that was,
uh, that was a life goal of mine.

192
00:09:19,625 --> 00:09:23,555
The question, the truth is, I can't,
well, I don't know that I can still do

193
00:09:23,555 --> 00:09:27,005
one, but in that time of that video,
I could, You've got it on video.

194
00:09:27,005 --> 00:09:30,735
That's all you need, right, ? It's there.

195
00:09:30,735 --> 00:09:33,785
It's, it's in the ether now and
it's not going anyway, so, Yeah.

196
00:09:34,085 --> 00:09:36,605
Just so you know, Leo, when you
grow up and when you listen to this,

197
00:09:36,815 --> 00:09:38,045
your old man can do a back flip.

198
00:09:38,585 --> 00:09:38,915
Yeah.

199
00:09:38,915 --> 00:09:39,095
Yeah.

200
00:09:39,095 --> 00:09:39,275
You've

201
00:09:39,275 --> 00:09:40,505
Matt Edmundson: got some work to keep up.

202
00:09:40,505 --> 00:09:40,805
Right?

203
00:09:40,805 --> 00:09:41,975
So, uh, That's awesome.

204
00:09:43,325 --> 00:09:43,745
, so.

205
00:09:44,805 --> 00:09:49,635
Uh, besides from having a dog, uh,
a fiance, a newborn, and the ability

206
00:09:49,635 --> 00:09:53,385
to fla back, flip, uh, living in
Tel Aviv, uh, you've got these two

207
00:09:53,385 --> 00:09:55,564
companies, aEscala, and Multiply Mii

208
00:09:55,785 --> 00:09:56,834
um, how did you.

209
00:09:57,510 --> 00:09:59,700
How did you get it
started with, with this?

210
00:09:59,700 --> 00:10:01,230
What's the sort of the backstory?

211
00:10:01,650 --> 00:10:04,680
Yoni Kozminski: Yeah, so, so
the backstory, like, like any

212
00:10:04,680 --> 00:10:09,600
good backstory simply came from
experience and understanding,

213
00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:11,610
uh, from a, a specific market.

214
00:10:11,610 --> 00:10:15,720
So I grew up in creative advertising and
digital marketing and you know, you listed

215
00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:17,340
some of the clients that I worked on.

216
00:10:18,705 --> 00:10:24,405
But sort of behind all of that, I was the
10th employee in Australia, in Australia

217
00:10:24,405 --> 00:10:30,885
at an agency that took on MasterCard
when we actually launched them on social.

218
00:10:30,885 --> 00:10:35,115
So there wasn't Facebook and Instagram
and YouTube and Pinterest for brands.

219
00:10:35,115 --> 00:10:35,385
Really.

220
00:10:35,390 --> 00:10:37,095
It was just sort of at that age.

221
00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:41,680
And us as an agency, we grew
from 10 to about 35 people.

222
00:10:41,829 --> 00:10:46,120
That was everything from SEO to web
development, design content strategy

223
00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,400
and production, media buying.

224
00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,550
I mean the work sort of as it was
all really starting to to come up

225
00:10:51,550 --> 00:10:53,590
and then moved over to the states.

226
00:10:53,590 --> 00:10:57,340
I was the 15th employee and agency
working with Sony in Snapchat

227
00:10:57,340 --> 00:10:59,290
and MasterCard over there.

228
00:10:59,319 --> 00:11:01,329
And we grew to about 40.

229
00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:08,460
And so what I would say is what I became,
uh, Depth at is what the experience looks

230
00:11:08,460 --> 00:11:13,110
like, growing from a very small to, you
know, a small to medium sized agency.

231
00:11:13,110 --> 00:11:16,830
And so when I moved to Israel about
five years ago, I met a couple of

232
00:11:16,830 --> 00:11:18,240
guys that had an Amazon business.

233
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,810
They were doing about 2 million
in revenue and had got stuck.

234
00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,800
And on the back of that I said,
Look, you know what's happening.

235
00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,790
You guys are trying to achieve
absolutely everything with a team of.

236
00:11:30,510 --> 00:11:34,890
Where not one of you has real experience
in any of the things that you should have.

237
00:11:34,890 --> 00:11:37,470
So they'd never done
any media buying before.

238
00:11:37,470 --> 00:11:41,189
They'd never done any creative
design work, brand strategy.

239
00:11:41,189 --> 00:11:43,860
They'd never done anything that relates
to it, and yet they were still, you

240
00:11:43,860 --> 00:11:46,199
know, I would argue very successful.

241
00:11:46,530 --> 00:11:49,949
And so what I did was I effectively
came in and built an operation

242
00:11:49,949 --> 00:11:52,010
and a team at the Philippiness.

243
00:11:52,199 --> 00:11:53,699
That was high level.

244
00:11:53,699 --> 00:11:56,939
So I'm not talking about virtual
assistance here, where you pay them

245
00:11:56,939 --> 00:12:00,150
three bucks an hour and they do some
baseline tasks I'm talking about.

246
00:12:00,180 --> 00:12:00,270
Mm-hmm.

247
00:12:00,510 --> 00:12:04,439
designers, ops managers,
creative directors.

248
00:12:04,470 --> 00:12:09,270
Uh, we built a customer support team,
my co-founder and I, uh, of five,

249
00:12:09,300 --> 00:12:12,090
and we built out the operational
infrastructure and that business was

250
00:12:12,090 --> 00:12:15,630
able to grow from two to 5 million
in the space of that 12 months.

251
00:12:15,870 --> 00:12:16,530
Uh Oh wow.

252
00:12:16,680 --> 00:12:21,540
Subsequently acquired by Thio and
on the back of that experience.

253
00:12:23,100 --> 00:12:25,860
We just realized that we could
really help a lot of people.

254
00:12:26,444 --> 00:12:32,714
Who had great ideas, were very, very savvy
when it come, came to product development

255
00:12:32,775 --> 00:12:37,964
and understanding what customers or
customers essentially were looking

256
00:12:37,964 --> 00:12:39,885
for from a product brand perspective.

257
00:12:39,885 --> 00:12:41,775
And so we sort of built that out.

258
00:12:41,805 --> 00:12:44,704
Um, I would say, you know, on
steroids for lack of a better term.

259
00:12:44,925 --> 00:12:49,875
And so me, really the incubation of
the idea that was multiplying mii was

260
00:12:49,875 --> 00:12:53,084
our experience in building that team
inside of the e-commerce business.

261
00:12:53,084 --> 00:12:54,194
And then we've taken that.

262
00:12:54,905 --> 00:12:57,005
And built it out into a proper operation.

263
00:12:57,065 --> 00:13:00,965
And Esca on the other hand,
happened probably six months

264
00:13:00,965 --> 00:13:03,125
after the start of multiply mii.

265
00:13:03,305 --> 00:13:06,185
And, and that really happened,
I would argue by accident.

266
00:13:06,190 --> 00:13:09,815
I think much like, uh, a lot of success,
at least I would attribute in my life.

267
00:13:09,815 --> 00:13:11,225
Uh, it all happens by accident.

268
00:13:11,225 --> 00:13:11,555
Right.

269
00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:11,825
Um,

270
00:13:12,005 --> 00:13:14,045
Matt Edmundson: no, it's amazing how
many times you hear that is the answer.

271
00:13:14,045 --> 00:13:14,765
How did this happen?

272
00:13:14,795 --> 00:13:15,875
Well, by accident, really.

273
00:13:15,995 --> 00:13:16,805
Yoni Kozminski: It was just luck.

274
00:13:16,835 --> 00:13:17,765
Dumb luck, really?

275
00:13:17,770 --> 00:13:17,865
Yeah.

276
00:13:17,935 --> 00:13:18,425
Yeah.

277
00:13:18,425 --> 00:13:18,426
Yeah.

278
00:13:18,545 --> 00:13:21,995
But I interviewed, uh, I interviewed
an ex Ernest and young management

279
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:23,885
consultant who just really wants to work.

280
00:13:24,645 --> 00:13:28,814
Startup and she was a process
improvement management consultant

281
00:13:28,814 --> 00:13:30,645
out of en young in the Philippines.

282
00:13:30,975 --> 00:13:34,275
And I said, Listen, you're gonna come
and work with us, but there's no way

283
00:13:34,275 --> 00:13:38,324
hell, I would waste your, your incredible
talents on being a project manager.

284
00:13:38,775 --> 00:13:42,855
Uh, so she delivered the first internal
project of process improvement.

285
00:13:42,860 --> 00:13:46,064
And on the back of that sort of
three month experience, I just

286
00:13:46,064 --> 00:13:49,515
said, Listen, we could rapidly
change the way in which organiz.

287
00:13:50,354 --> 00:13:50,925
Behave.

288
00:13:50,984 --> 00:13:52,374
And so we built out Escala.

289
00:13:52,395 --> 00:13:57,405
So now we've got about 35, nearly
40 full-time management consultants.

290
00:13:57,675 --> 00:14:00,795
Many of them come from Ernest and
Young, Some of that have Accenture

291
00:14:00,795 --> 00:14:02,745
and Deloitte, Philippine based.

292
00:14:02,745 --> 00:14:07,155
So we can keep our operating costs
low and, and multiply me has probably

293
00:14:07,155 --> 00:14:13,454
about, I'd say 280 plus people
on payroll, but about a total of

294
00:14:13,685 --> 00:14:15,344
110 people are reporting into us.

295
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:20,280
Um, essentially that was sort of how
it all came to be, was just, you know,

296
00:14:20,580 --> 00:14:25,620
understanding the environment that existed
inside of that Amazon e-commerce business

297
00:14:25,620 --> 00:14:27,300
and the challenges that they experienced.

298
00:14:27,630 --> 00:14:30,390
And then obviously the business
was acquired, so there was no more

299
00:14:30,660 --> 00:14:31,950
business for us to deliver that.

300
00:14:31,980 --> 00:14:35,400
And it was either, do we dive
back into building another d c

301
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:39,720
or eCommerce business, or do we
move into professional services?

302
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,550
And, you know, not that you've
asked the question, but I'll just

303
00:14:41,550 --> 00:14:43,050
tell you anyway, that decision.

304
00:14:43,860 --> 00:14:48,420
That I made really there was that the
capital constraints that would require

305
00:14:48,420 --> 00:14:52,380
me to build an Amazon business to the
level that I wanted to build it to,

306
00:14:52,380 --> 00:14:55,050
you know, I would've had to put in
realistically half a million dollars.

307
00:14:55,410 --> 00:14:55,500
Mm-hmm.

308
00:14:55,949 --> 00:14:59,099
and to build a service-based business,
which granted, you know, it had a

309
00:14:59,104 --> 00:15:04,050
decade of experience growing in and
building myself was a lot, lot lower.

310
00:15:04,050 --> 00:15:06,449
So that was really the the decision.

311
00:15:06,449 --> 00:15:11,610
And I also would say as well, A lot
more sort of, uh, meaningful to me.

312
00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:16,290
I mean, I look at sort of our success
as how many lives do we impact

313
00:15:16,290 --> 00:15:17,880
because we exist in market today.

314
00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,300
And, you know, I always lead in with
how many people we have on payroll,

315
00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:24,600
not what our, you know, what I would
argue is a vanity metric, and we could

316
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:29,070
talk about it a bit later, but just,
you know, I'm a 7, 8, 9, 15 figure

317
00:15:29,070 --> 00:15:31,530
business, you know, at the end of the day.

318
00:15:31,830 --> 00:15:34,710
Um, that doesn't have a
whole lot of meaning to me.

319
00:15:34,715 --> 00:15:38,385
And, you know, I would argue, We're on
track to be a eight figure business next

320
00:15:38,385 --> 00:15:42,285
year, but I could care less about the
fact that that's, it's irrelevant to me.

321
00:15:43,694 --> 00:15:43,875
That's

322
00:15:43,875 --> 00:15:44,745
Matt Edmundson: really interesting.

323
00:15:44,745 --> 00:15:48,705
I, I, I do want get into the principles
and concepts of scaling and growing

324
00:15:48,705 --> 00:15:51,165
a business that you've learned,
so we can pick your brains, but

325
00:15:51,165 --> 00:15:52,035
there's a couple of things there.

326
00:15:52,035 --> 00:15:53,625
Yanni, you said that I just wanna mention.

327
00:15:54,944 --> 00:15:59,745
I, I, I'm really intrigued by the fact
you went from, uh, running an econ

328
00:16:00,185 --> 00:16:03,765
business to deciding to go professional
services because of the capital

329
00:16:03,915 --> 00:16:08,955
aspect of it, because, So many people
are doing it the other way around.

330
00:16:08,955 --> 00:16:11,025
They're in professional services
business, but they're wanting

331
00:16:11,025 --> 00:16:12,525
to do the e-com side of things.

332
00:16:12,525 --> 00:16:15,825
So it's interesting that you, you,
you kind of like the salmon in a spec.

333
00:16:15,855 --> 00:16:17,295
You've kind of gone against the flow.

334
00:16:18,285 --> 00:16:21,345
Um, and the, that intrigues me.

335
00:16:21,345 --> 00:16:24,975
And, and then the second thing which
intrigues me is this phrase, it has

336
00:16:24,975 --> 00:16:28,995
to be meaningful to me, uh, and.

337
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,980
I'm curious as to where you got that
from, because you don't hear a lot

338
00:16:34,980 --> 00:16:39,690
of business people, um, these days
talk about meaning you talk, you hear

339
00:16:39,690 --> 00:16:41,310
people talk about six, seven or eight.

340
00:16:41,340 --> 00:16:43,650
You know, you go by an online
course, we'll help you deliver

341
00:16:43,650 --> 00:16:44,910
a seven, eight figure business.

342
00:16:45,630 --> 00:16:47,040
You don't go and buy an online course.

343
00:16:47,220 --> 00:16:49,290
We'll get you a business
that's meaningful to you.

344
00:16:49,295 --> 00:16:49,980
Do, you know what I mean?

345
00:16:49,980 --> 00:16:51,120
So where did that come?

346
00:16:52,185 --> 00:16:54,584
Yoni Kozminski: So I'll start
with the first question, and that

347
00:16:54,584 --> 00:16:58,064
was, I'm a salmon swimming up
stream, uh, the wrong way here.

348
00:16:58,574 --> 00:17:06,075
So I would argue, or I would say that
obviously it's a natural inclination

349
00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:10,545
if you are professional services,
then you move into client side, right?

350
00:17:10,545 --> 00:17:10,994
Which is mm-hmm.

351
00:17:11,264 --> 00:17:14,925
either building your own brand or
working for a Mercedes or MasterCard

352
00:17:14,925 --> 00:17:16,635
or whatever that looks like.

353
00:17:16,635 --> 00:17:18,825
And I think that there is definitely.

354
00:17:20,385 --> 00:17:22,275
There's definitely a
lot of positives there.

355
00:17:22,275 --> 00:17:26,595
Like, you know, you would argue as
a, you know, a career professional

356
00:17:26,595 --> 00:17:29,025
services guy here, clients are the worst.

357
00:17:29,055 --> 00:17:32,895
Clients are the ones that, that,
you know, that essentially are the

358
00:17:32,895 --> 00:17:34,065
ones that make all the mistakes.

359
00:17:34,065 --> 00:17:37,095
Cuz you lay out the equation of
what they need to deliver on and

360
00:17:37,095 --> 00:17:40,875
typically it's their inability to
deliver on the expectations that

361
00:17:40,875 --> 00:17:43,395
sees you render, you know, a result.

362
00:17:43,395 --> 00:17:46,095
That's, that, that's not
positive for both of you.

363
00:17:46,095 --> 00:17:52,800
So, I moved away from the traditional
agency model where we were responsible

364
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:54,420
for every component of delivery.

365
00:17:54,420 --> 00:17:57,480
So we would come up with a content
strategy that'd give us the budget,

366
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,350
obviously, and we'd produce it and
we'd post it in every little issue

367
00:18:01,350 --> 00:18:05,610
that came up, every little typo or
spelling, whatever it was, it was on us.

368
00:18:05,610 --> 00:18:09,659
So the model that we've built today really
puts a lot more of the accountability

369
00:18:09,659 --> 00:18:11,610
and responsibility on our clients.

370
00:18:11,610 --> 00:18:15,750
So I'd say definitely
taking a step away from.

371
00:18:16,155 --> 00:18:21,495
Re-engineering the model, uh, so to
speak, where a management consulting,

372
00:18:21,495 --> 00:18:24,915
we've effectively democratized our
ability to deliver that to people

373
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,755
that, you know, quite frankly, have
never seen what that looks like.

374
00:18:28,755 --> 00:18:33,315
You know, these people haven't worked
with the EYs and Accentures and Deloittes,

375
00:18:33,315 --> 00:18:34,455
and McKinseys and Banes of the world.

376
00:18:34,455 --> 00:18:37,675
So, you know, to them it's absolutely
groundbreaking and I would.

377
00:18:38,085 --> 00:18:41,745
99% of our projects on the
Escala side, people walk away

378
00:18:41,745 --> 00:18:43,185
and they're like, Holy shit.

379
00:18:43,275 --> 00:18:47,085
Like this is life changing in
terms of what I'm able to achieve.

380
00:18:47,505 --> 00:18:50,895
And on the Multiply Mii side, we're
trying to move further and further

381
00:18:50,895 --> 00:18:54,855
away from the typical business process
outsourcing BPO space where it's.

382
00:18:55,605 --> 00:18:58,095
You come to us, we'll hire you one person.

383
00:18:58,095 --> 00:19:01,095
You'll have communication with that one
person, and then they'll build a team.

384
00:19:01,095 --> 00:19:01,845
And that's how it is.

385
00:19:02,175 --> 00:19:05,625
We think in order for you to build
a, a real business or a business

386
00:19:05,629 --> 00:19:09,465
that that stands the test of
time, you have to invest in your

387
00:19:09,470 --> 00:19:10,965
culture and what that looks like.

388
00:19:10,970 --> 00:19:14,055
So what we do is we facilitate
the onboarding strategy.

389
00:19:14,264 --> 00:19:17,445
We help you understand who you
actually need, not just a job

390
00:19:17,445 --> 00:19:18,645
description that you put out there.

391
00:19:18,645 --> 00:19:20,655
And we sort of bridge
that gap and then we.

392
00:19:21,689 --> 00:19:23,429
You know, maintain that sort of fluidity.

393
00:19:23,429 --> 00:19:27,419
So we pay healthcare and social security
and HMO and Phil Health and, you know,

394
00:19:27,419 --> 00:19:32,250
the business really was, uh, was started
because there was a, you know, somewhat

395
00:19:32,250 --> 00:19:33,480
of a social mission attached to it.

396
00:19:33,485 --> 00:19:37,560
So I built myself, and I segue here,
so I'd say that's why I'm, I'm back

397
00:19:37,564 --> 00:19:39,870
in the professional services space.

398
00:19:39,899 --> 00:19:45,419
Um, I'd also argue that I'm trying to
build a lot of leverage, uh, long term.

399
00:19:45,425 --> 00:19:47,879
Like, you know, I've been
working on the 10 year vision

400
00:19:47,939 --> 00:19:49,379
around the business right now.

401
00:19:50,790 --> 00:19:57,000
Having a business that can effectively
find you high value, low cost, uh,

402
00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:01,590
individuals, and then having another
business that can help you understand,

403
00:20:01,595 --> 00:20:03,659
fix and build essentially any business.

404
00:20:03,659 --> 00:20:06,689
We've made a, you know, considered
decision to focus on e-commerce.

405
00:20:07,050 --> 00:20:09,149
All of a sudden, I look
10 years into the future.

406
00:20:10,034 --> 00:20:14,475
There's, there's a lot of things that
you can do with both of those businesses.

407
00:20:14,534 --> 00:20:18,225
My ability to scale up our operation
and not break it, um mm-hmm.

408
00:20:18,495 --> 00:20:23,385
is fast, superior to most people
out there, especially at, you know,

409
00:20:23,385 --> 00:20:25,455
at the investment that's required.

410
00:20:25,514 --> 00:20:29,774
You know, we were talking before we
pushed, uh, record and I was saying a year

411
00:20:29,774 --> 00:20:31,635
ago, I didn't know what a bi ops team was.

412
00:20:31,695 --> 00:20:33,764
Today we've got bi ops team of five.

413
00:20:34,770 --> 00:20:37,920
You know, there, there's all these
functions that I didn't even know that

414
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,950
you would need, cuz I quite frankly
never worked for a business as large

415
00:20:40,950 --> 00:20:42,570
as the one that we're running today.

416
00:20:42,570 --> 00:20:45,390
So, um, so that's that component.

417
00:20:45,390 --> 00:20:47,610
That's why I've decided to swim upstream.

418
00:20:48,150 --> 00:20:53,210
And then on the meaningful
or the consideration of why,

419
00:20:53,580 --> 00:20:55,650
uh, why I choose a business.

420
00:20:56,235 --> 00:20:57,314
Meaning and purpose?

421
00:20:58,125 --> 00:21:02,804
Um, this is, this is a bit of a tangent,
but, uh, bear with me for a second here.

422
00:21:03,435 --> 00:21:08,385
I, I went to Burning Man for the
first time when I was 27 years old.

423
00:21:08,534 --> 00:21:11,554
Um, just as I moved to the US mm-hmm.

424
00:21:11,639 --> 00:21:14,925
, um, and Burning Man is a,
an arts and crafts festival.

425
00:21:14,955 --> 00:21:18,854
It's, um, honestly, it's like nothing
that exists, uh, anywhere else in the

426
00:21:18,854 --> 00:21:23,264
world other than sort of the sub burning
mans that you, you see in other regions,

427
00:21:23,264 --> 00:21:26,520
but, It has 10 principles Burning Man.

428
00:21:26,610 --> 00:21:30,899
And you can't, even if you don't read the
principles, you can't help but feel them.

429
00:21:31,139 --> 00:21:37,080
And by day three, I just remember,
uh, experiencing one of the ones that

430
00:21:37,085 --> 00:21:40,440
I still feel strongest about, and
it's about the gift of giving without

431
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,510
the expectation of reciprocation.

432
00:21:43,220 --> 00:21:46,610
So I went through this journey,
um, and on the back of leaving

433
00:21:46,610 --> 00:21:47,780
Bernie, Man, I said, You know what?

434
00:21:47,810 --> 00:21:51,770
I'm done with everything that
relates to capitalist society.

435
00:21:51,770 --> 00:21:54,530
I want to go and join a
not-for-profit, an ngo.

436
00:21:54,770 --> 00:21:58,639
I wanna do something that's gonna
have real meaning and purpose.

437
00:21:58,639 --> 00:22:02,659
And, and a buddy of mine actually said,
Listen, before you go ahead and do all of

438
00:22:02,659 --> 00:22:04,370
this, I want you to just read this book.

439
00:22:04,850 --> 00:22:10,040
And the book is called 80,000 Hours, and
it is a book about effective altruism.

440
00:22:10,620 --> 00:22:14,445
So, You know, for those listening,
it, it's how can you have the most

441
00:22:14,445 --> 00:22:19,725
positive impact on humanity with the
80,000 hours that the average person

442
00:22:19,730 --> 00:22:21,825
has in their entire working career?

443
00:22:22,095 --> 00:22:24,195
And so it takes you, it's
a short book and it's free.

444
00:22:24,285 --> 00:22:26,565
I'd highly recommend to
anyone listening to read it.

445
00:22:27,135 --> 00:22:30,675
Um, And where I landed on the
back of it, and I'll give you one

446
00:22:30,675 --> 00:22:33,685
little anecdote and I'll explain
to you why Multiply Mii Exists and

447
00:22:33,705 --> 00:22:35,145
what our mission really is here.

448
00:22:35,145 --> 00:22:39,405
But, uh, the anecdote that really
resonates with me is that, you know,

449
00:22:39,405 --> 00:22:43,365
if you are a general practitioner,
a gp, a doctor in your lifetime,

450
00:22:43,365 --> 00:22:47,294
on average, you'll save about 12
lives, which is tremendous, right?

451
00:22:47,294 --> 00:22:49,815
I mean, 12 lives, Matt, to save 12 lives.

452
00:22:50,145 --> 00:22:56,415
How, how special is that now if
you simply invested $2,000 a.

453
00:22:57,675 --> 00:23:02,655
12 months a year to a malaria
fund in West Africa, you'll save

454
00:23:02,804 --> 00:23:04,995
about 5,000 people's lives a year.

455
00:23:05,385 --> 00:23:10,004
And so what it effectively, what I
took away from that entire book and the

456
00:23:10,010 --> 00:23:13,665
experience and the decision to stay in the
commercial world is that, you know, I had

457
00:23:13,669 --> 00:23:19,635
somewhat of a knack for, you know, for the
commercial well then that for me to truly

458
00:23:19,814 --> 00:23:24,915
have deep impact on the world, I wanna
sharpen my skill set in a competitive.

459
00:23:25,995 --> 00:23:28,395
And the second you move
over to the not-for-profit

460
00:23:28,395 --> 00:23:30,345
space, it's less competitive.

461
00:23:30,345 --> 00:23:34,695
There's not the, it's not this challenging
rat race of how do I get ahead?

462
00:23:34,695 --> 00:23:38,085
And so I made the considered decision
on the back of wanting to go into

463
00:23:38,085 --> 00:23:39,555
the NGO space to say, You know what?

464
00:23:39,855 --> 00:23:44,055
I'm going to work my ass off and I'm
going to be the best version of myself

465
00:23:44,085 --> 00:23:48,675
that I can be, so that when the time
is right and you know, financial

466
00:23:49,225 --> 00:23:50,445
security is there, I can really.

467
00:23:51,330 --> 00:23:54,660
The most impact that I can on,
on the betterment of humanity.

468
00:23:54,660 --> 00:23:59,910
And so the mission around Multiply mii
was when I left that company, when I

469
00:23:59,910 --> 00:24:05,910
left, um, the Amazon business, I asked a
couple of the team members that we'd hired

470
00:24:05,910 --> 00:24:11,770
there, like, tell me unapologetically,
what did you make at, in, in

471
00:24:11,770 --> 00:24:13,410
corporate Philippines at your highest?

472
00:24:13,510 --> 00:24:15,990
And it was about three
times what we were paying.

473
00:24:16,604 --> 00:24:19,834
And not only that, but they were getting
healthcare and social security and hmi,

474
00:24:19,834 --> 00:24:21,135
I just said, it doesn't make sense.

475
00:24:21,135 --> 00:24:24,735
We're making a million dollars of
profit a year in that, in that Amazon

476
00:24:24,735 --> 00:24:28,844
business, and they're taking salary
sacrifice, getting paid, you know,

477
00:24:29,054 --> 00:24:33,854
five bucks an hour, six bucks an hour
via PayPal without any of the benefits

478
00:24:33,860 --> 00:24:36,524
or any of the jobs security that they
would experience in the Philippines.

479
00:24:36,885 --> 00:24:38,294
And I just said, it
doesn't make sense to me.

480
00:24:38,294 --> 00:24:43,364
So the mission around multiply me
was to offer all of the benefits.

481
00:24:44,159 --> 00:24:46,649
You would effectively see if you
were in the corporate Philippines.

482
00:24:46,649 --> 00:24:51,449
So we offer healthcare and social security
and HMO and 13th month and paid leave

483
00:24:51,449 --> 00:24:52,949
and everything that they would get.

484
00:24:53,219 --> 00:24:59,850
Um, but I think what's, what's more for
me is that I look@onlinejobs.ph for anyone

485
00:24:59,850 --> 00:25:03,510
who's listening, it's like, I like to
call it the gateway drug to finding talent

486
00:25:03,510 --> 00:25:07,229
out of the Philippines where you find
talents sort of like just good enough to

487
00:25:07,919 --> 00:25:10,979
deliver data entry and some skill sets.

488
00:25:10,979 --> 00:25:12,209
And if you're lucky, you find some.

489
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,800
Really have talent in there, but
ultimately there's levels of talent

490
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:18,510
that exists that are well beyond that.

491
00:25:18,510 --> 00:25:21,960
And so, you know, when I experienced
that for the first time, I just said,

492
00:25:22,350 --> 00:25:23,700
I've got the whole equation wrong.

493
00:25:23,700 --> 00:25:27,300
I was delegating, uh, I was
delegating tasks and not

494
00:25:27,300 --> 00:25:30,149
accountability and responsibility
to people who could really deliver.

495
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:34,770
And I would argue far deliver, uh,
on a level that, you know, I've never

496
00:25:34,770 --> 00:25:38,070
really even had coworkers deliver
at that level anywhere in the world.

497
00:25:38,070 --> 00:25:40,889
And I've worked in, you know,
three or four geographies now.

498
00:25:40,889 --> 00:25:43,605
So, Really eye opening.

499
00:25:43,605 --> 00:25:47,715
So anyway, I've gone on a little bit of a
rant here, Matt, but, uh, the point, the

500
00:25:47,715 --> 00:25:52,395
point I'm making is it's very easy to get
out of bed in the morning knowing that

501
00:25:52,395 --> 00:25:58,575
because we exist in market today, 330 odd
people can put food on their tables and,

502
00:25:58,575 --> 00:26:00,225
you know, provide for their families.

503
00:26:00,225 --> 00:26:03,254
And so for me, going back to the
start of it, you know, the, that any

504
00:26:03,254 --> 00:26:05,145
metrics around the revenue numbers.

505
00:26:05,504 --> 00:26:09,044
Um, it, it doesn't, it doesn't
have meaning and purpose.

506
00:26:09,044 --> 00:26:12,375
And I can do this all day
because I know that because we

507
00:26:12,375 --> 00:26:14,235
exist, it, you know, it matters.

508
00:26:14,235 --> 00:26:17,054
It matters not just to me,
but to a lot of other people.

509
00:26:18,945 --> 00:26:20,085
Matt Edmundson: That's
a really powerful thing.

510
00:26:20,085 --> 00:26:24,705
And I think, uh, the, the ability
to get out of bed and be motivated

511
00:26:24,705 --> 00:26:28,635
with a smile on your face, I think
is, is one of the things that

512
00:26:28,695 --> 00:26:30,524
so many in the west are missing.

513
00:26:30,975 --> 00:26:36,375
Uh, and I, I, I'm a big, I, I'm slight
idealist if I'm honest with you,

514
00:26:36,375 --> 00:26:39,435
but I do think it comes down to this
idea of meaning and purpose and just

515
00:26:39,435 --> 00:26:41,145
being really clear on what that is.

516
00:26:41,715 --> 00:26:43,305
You know, why am I here,
what am I gonna do?

517
00:26:43,305 --> 00:26:44,085
And all that sort of thing.

518
00:26:44,685 --> 00:26:47,445
So I, I'm really intrigued by your story.

519
00:26:47,505 --> 00:26:50,775
Uh, so thank you for
sharing, uh, Yoni about that.

520
00:26:51,345 --> 00:26:55,235
Um, and it's, it's interesting.

521
00:26:55,235 --> 00:26:58,275
I mean, you, you've obviously
created these two quite.

522
00:26:59,595 --> 00:27:01,514
Goliath is maybe the wrong phrase.

523
00:27:01,514 --> 00:27:04,155
Do, you know what I mean, but
two quite sizeable organizations.

524
00:27:04,215 --> 00:27:08,325
Um, uh, you've got one in the
Philippines doing some direct good

525
00:27:08,325 --> 00:27:10,995
two people in the Philippines, but
obviously also direct good to the

526
00:27:10,995 --> 00:27:13,125
organizations that use that service.

527
00:27:13,125 --> 00:27:13,335
Right.

528
00:27:13,335 --> 00:27:19,155
It's gotta be a, a a to coin the,
um, the Stephen Covey phrase.

529
00:27:19,155 --> 00:27:20,925
It's got to be the win-win, hasn't it?

530
00:27:20,925 --> 00:27:23,325
It's got to, It's gotta
work for both parties.

531
00:27:23,595 --> 00:27:23,955
Great man.

532
00:27:24,014 --> 00:27:26,774
Um, how do you.

533
00:27:28,305 --> 00:27:31,185
I'm just thinking of the listener
who's listening to the show there.

534
00:27:31,815 --> 00:27:35,265
Um, they're growing their
eco or they're in e-commerce.

535
00:27:35,265 --> 00:27:37,845
You know, some of people might
have started, some people have been

536
00:27:37,845 --> 00:27:39,615
around like me for a little while.

537
00:27:40,005 --> 00:27:44,925
Um, what are some of the
principles that you have learned?

538
00:27:45,330 --> 00:27:50,429
In doing this, um, that
can be really helpful.

539
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,990
Um, I, I've got here, like, how
do you use process and systems to

540
00:27:54,995 --> 00:27:56,669
help scale businesses like this?

541
00:27:56,669 --> 00:28:01,350
Assess, design, integrate concept,
explain what that's all about.

542
00:28:01,740 --> 00:28:05,429
Yoni Kozminski: Before I explain that,
I wanna just take a, a, a step back or

543
00:28:05,429 --> 00:28:07,830
look at it at sort of 30,000 feet here.

544
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:11,790
So, you know, none of us,
not a single entrepreneur.

545
00:28:12,615 --> 00:28:17,205
Business owner created their business
to be a slave to it 168 hours a week.

546
00:28:17,685 --> 00:28:18,045
Right?

547
00:28:18,675 --> 00:28:19,305
Very true.

548
00:28:19,395 --> 00:28:23,975
When you, when you, when you're looking
to create or live the entrepreneurial

549
00:28:23,980 --> 00:28:28,005
dream, it's for more freedom, more
time and effectively more money.

550
00:28:28,275 --> 00:28:32,385
And I think what typically happens
to the average entrepreneur, and

551
00:28:32,445 --> 00:28:34,155
I've been guilty of it myself, is.

552
00:28:34,905 --> 00:28:39,795
You obsess over the delivery
and you obsess over how you can

553
00:28:39,795 --> 00:28:41,085
continue to grow and evolve.

554
00:28:41,085 --> 00:28:46,635
And what you sort of miss along the way
is that unless you're actually able to,

555
00:28:46,695 --> 00:28:50,415
to delegate, and unless you're able to
start to get outside of your business

556
00:28:50,420 --> 00:28:53,805
and bring on the right people or build
the right processes, you start to

557
00:28:53,805 --> 00:28:57,435
live, we start to run on their, their
e-commerce hamster wheel where, you

558
00:28:57,435 --> 00:29:01,605
know how , you know how I would define
it, You know, what does that look like?

559
00:29:02,235 --> 00:29:03,855
You have initial success, right?

560
00:29:03,855 --> 00:29:06,825
So let's say you, you drop,
you know, the typical journey.

561
00:29:06,825 --> 00:29:09,165
You start drop shipping and you
realize the opportunity, you start

562
00:29:09,165 --> 00:29:13,004
to move into making your own products
and you start to see that success.

563
00:29:13,010 --> 00:29:17,565
And maybe you move away from your
full-time gig to really accelerate growth.

564
00:29:17,565 --> 00:29:20,855
And then what happens is you just become
a victim of your own success because.

565
00:29:21,465 --> 00:29:23,775
The second that you feel like
you're gonna take that foot off the

566
00:29:23,775 --> 00:29:27,885
gas, you know, stranded inventory
issues around supply chain and

567
00:29:27,885 --> 00:29:33,135
logistics, you know, uh, suppressed
ASIN for Amazon seller or whatever.

568
00:29:33,225 --> 00:29:36,045
I mean, what happened to me when I
was a drop shipper, I didn't realize

569
00:29:36,045 --> 00:29:39,465
that I couldn't sell knives on my
website and do Facebook media buying

570
00:29:39,465 --> 00:29:41,780
and, you know, My site went to shit.

571
00:29:41,780 --> 00:29:44,630
So  something, something happened.

572
00:29:44,630 --> 00:29:47,660
So you know, you have a few options
that you can take at that point.

573
00:29:47,660 --> 00:29:51,020
And it might be imploding,
which I think a lot of, a lot of

574
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:52,820
e-commerce entrepreneurs will do.

575
00:29:52,820 --> 00:29:54,680
Or you can sell your business.

576
00:29:54,740 --> 00:29:55,490
Yeah, yeah.

577
00:29:55,550 --> 00:29:57,380
Or you, or you can sell your business.

578
00:29:57,470 --> 00:29:58,490
Um, which.

579
00:29:59,010 --> 00:30:02,939
Effectively, you know, when we talk about
selling your business, it can be great.

580
00:30:02,939 --> 00:30:05,610
It's probably not the best time right
now, depending on when this comes out,

581
00:30:05,610 --> 00:30:08,969
it's probably still not gonna be the best
time to sell your e-commerce business.

582
00:30:08,969 --> 00:30:11,550
And the last one would be
to delegate and elevate.

583
00:30:11,580 --> 00:30:13,860
So really start to hand
over that accountability.

584
00:30:13,860 --> 00:30:19,770
So going back to your question, when you
look to build systems in your business,

585
00:30:19,770 --> 00:30:25,350
I think the first and most important
thing to start considering is, How am I

586
00:30:25,350 --> 00:30:28,020
investing my time and where is it going?

587
00:30:28,020 --> 00:30:33,149
So getting clarity on where your time is
going, and then starting to understand

588
00:30:33,155 --> 00:30:36,270
what are the things that I can give
ownership and accountability to.

589
00:30:36,270 --> 00:30:38,939
And so a really simple thing
that, that I love to recommend to

590
00:30:38,939 --> 00:30:41,100
people is look at your calendar.

591
00:30:42,140 --> 00:30:45,780
Actually document, put every aspect
of everything that's happening inside

592
00:30:45,780 --> 00:30:48,030
of your calendar, in inside of it.

593
00:30:48,030 --> 00:30:51,120
So if I'm on this podcast
right now, it's in my calendar.

594
00:30:51,125 --> 00:30:54,810
If I'm doing preparation for 30 minutes
beforehand, making sure that I have

595
00:30:54,810 --> 00:30:57,540
the right answers and insights, you
know, I'm gonna put it in there.

596
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,930
Putting every little bit and then
assessing that at the end of the week.

597
00:31:00,930 --> 00:31:03,420
Really understanding, well,
how did I invest my time?

598
00:31:03,660 --> 00:31:05,850
Was it meaningful, was it valuable?

599
00:31:06,180 --> 00:31:08,880
And then starting to focus that in.

600
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,055
So, Back to the system.

601
00:31:11,055 --> 00:31:15,345
So . So that's how you can start
to remove yourself from your

602
00:31:15,345 --> 00:31:16,995
business as a, as a first step.

603
00:31:17,145 --> 00:31:20,685
But, but when we talk about systems
or how we talk about systems inside

604
00:31:20,685 --> 00:31:25,665
of a Escala, systems are effectively
the perfect harmony between

605
00:31:25,755 --> 00:31:28,035
people, process, and technology.

606
00:31:28,365 --> 00:31:33,255
And if you don't have all three of
those right, then something is gonna

607
00:31:33,255 --> 00:31:34,695
go, something's gonna fall off.

608
00:31:34,695 --> 00:31:37,485
And, and let me just give
you a a prime example here.

609
00:31:38,610 --> 00:31:41,940
Most of your listeners here are
obviously e-commerce entrepreneurs.

610
00:31:41,940 --> 00:31:46,950
I'm trying to think, uh, if it's not an
Amazon example, let's say you are using

611
00:31:46,950 --> 00:31:52,740
something like, um, uh, let's say you're
using something like MailChimp, right?

612
00:31:53,370 --> 00:31:57,210
And you want to delegate the
email marketing component of your

613
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,250
Shopify website to someone else.

614
00:31:59,250 --> 00:31:59,340
Mm-hmm.

615
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:05,760
, unless you dictate that inside of
MailChimp, you go to this specific email.

616
00:32:07,050 --> 00:32:09,840
A lot of people would just say, Go
to MailChimp, deliver the work, build

617
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:11,880
the SOP around that, and that's great.

618
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:17,790
But if I stated that, you know, once a
month we're creating an email sequence

619
00:32:17,790 --> 00:32:21,030
and there's an abandoned cart sequence,
whatever, whatever that is, what I'm

620
00:32:21,030 --> 00:32:23,370
gonna define is who's responsible.

621
00:32:23,370 --> 00:32:30,060
So the copywriter will effectively go
into MailChimp and go to X, Y, Z location.

622
00:32:30,465 --> 00:32:36,885
And deliver it at this point in time, once
a month on the last Monday of every month.

623
00:32:36,885 --> 00:32:40,445
So connecting the people who's account.

624
00:32:40,995 --> 00:32:46,545
The process, what they need to actually
deliver and the technology is, is how

625
00:32:46,545 --> 00:32:48,135
you can start to string it all together.

626
00:32:48,135 --> 00:32:53,774
Whereas a lot of people look at technology
as like the panacea, like cool MailChimp,

627
00:32:53,774 --> 00:32:58,514
done, do the MailChimp thing, do the
Shopify thing, and, and, and we're good.

628
00:32:58,514 --> 00:33:00,585
But in reality, unless
you're really connecting all.

629
00:33:01,379 --> 00:33:04,320
Um, you're not being effective in that.

630
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:09,030
I mean, I could sit here and really
walk you through what Escala's five tier

631
00:33:09,060 --> 00:33:11,790
hierarchy around process methodology is.

632
00:33:12,930 --> 00:33:16,380
I'll let you keep asking questions, but
I'd be very happy to sh happy to share

633
00:33:16,380 --> 00:33:20,040
what that looks like so you guys can get
an understanding of how to build process.

634
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,910
But, but maybe I'll, uh, I'll let you do
your part and ask the questions before

635
00:33:23,910 --> 00:33:26,550
Matt Edmundson: I get Well, no, I'm,
I'm, I'm curious to get into it because

636
00:33:26,550 --> 00:33:31,500
I, I, I, I've, I've drawn out the little
triangle of people, uh, process and,

637
00:33:31,590 --> 00:33:39,030
um, technology here, and I, I'm, I'm
curious in that, Is that something that

638
00:33:39,030 --> 00:33:41,159
I need to think about from day one?

639
00:33:41,189 --> 00:33:44,669
Is that something that I need
to think about when I hit five

640
00:33:44,675 --> 00:33:46,189
staff a million in turnover?

641
00:33:46,195 --> 00:33:49,199
Or is that something that I, I
think, actually, no, this is once

642
00:33:49,199 --> 00:33:51,870
I've got over 20 staff, then I can
think about that kind of thing.

643
00:33:52,469 --> 00:33:56,520
At what point in my journey do I need
to start to think about these things?

644
00:33:56,740 --> 00:33:58,620
Yoni Kozminski: Yeah, it's
a great question, Matt.

645
00:33:58,949 --> 00:34:03,300
So I'd say you should, you should,
from from the get go, be thinking

646
00:34:03,330 --> 00:34:05,790
about what's involved in your process.

647
00:34:06,270 --> 00:34:10,679
I don't think from day one you should
be documenting absolutely every little

648
00:34:10,860 --> 00:34:15,449
thing that you're doing because ultimately
it will change quite significantly over

649
00:34:15,449 --> 00:34:20,730
time as you become more sophisticated
and, you know, uh, effort versus reward.

650
00:34:20,969 --> 00:34:25,350
Early, early days, you know, if you're the
solopreneur trying to get things off the

651
00:34:25,350 --> 00:34:29,069
ground and you're testing a lot of things
and you've got enough time to deliver.

652
00:34:29,835 --> 00:34:30,645
You're all good.

653
00:34:30,645 --> 00:34:32,594
You don't need to be
documenting every little thing.

654
00:34:32,594 --> 00:34:36,824
It's only when you start to feel
stretched that I think that's when

655
00:34:37,215 --> 00:34:39,405
no one could come into your business
and know absolutely everything

656
00:34:39,405 --> 00:34:41,445
that's going on inside of your head.

657
00:34:42,149 --> 00:34:46,569
And so I would say as soon as you
start to get to those levels, and,

658
00:34:46,569 --> 00:34:50,580
and a great way to think about is,
let's use your example of five people.

659
00:34:50,879 --> 00:34:52,439
Uh, million dollar turnover.

660
00:34:52,739 --> 00:34:57,029
You know, ultimately what happens
if someone doesn't show up for work?

661
00:34:57,210 --> 00:35:00,390
Or decides to leave
and renders right away.

662
00:35:00,390 --> 00:35:03,630
You know, I don't wanna go to some of
those more morbid ones gets hit by a bus.

663
00:35:03,870 --> 00:35:05,940
Uh, but let's say they
get hit by a bus . Um,

664
00:35:09,060 --> 00:35:09,630
I had to go.

665
00:35:09,630 --> 00:35:10,020
They didn't.

666
00:35:10,025 --> 00:35:10,200
I.

667
00:35:10,410 --> 00:35:10,900
Yeah.

668
00:35:10,900 --> 00:35:11,550
Yeah, absolutely.

669
00:35:11,730 --> 00:35:14,250
But, uh, well, you're from, you're
from Liverpool, so you get it.

670
00:35:14,340 --> 00:35:20,805
Um, but, uh, ultimately, If they
disappear, then so too does that

671
00:35:20,805 --> 00:35:26,535
output and so you are left effectively
having to pick up the pieces, unsure

672
00:35:26,565 --> 00:35:30,285
of or effectively losing where
you are having the most impact.

673
00:35:30,285 --> 00:35:34,065
So I would say as soon as you
become a little bit stretched,

674
00:35:34,935 --> 00:35:38,085
That's when you should start
enacting some of these processes.

675
00:35:38,085 --> 00:35:41,445
But you wanna actually get to
them sooner rather than later.

676
00:35:41,445 --> 00:35:42,735
And it doesn't need to be.

677
00:35:42,975 --> 00:35:45,795
And I'll share with you guys, you
know, in a little bit about our

678
00:35:45,795 --> 00:35:47,595
methodology and how we approach it.

679
00:35:47,985 --> 00:35:51,885
It doesn't need to be at a scholar level,
you know, that's, that's management

680
00:35:51,885 --> 00:35:56,475
consulting level and that's, you know,
that's in a league of its own, starting

681
00:35:56,475 --> 00:35:59,175
with a word dark or an Excel dark.

682
00:35:59,820 --> 00:36:00,870
Simply defining everything.

683
00:36:00,930 --> 00:36:04,890
That's great because ultimately
you are simply trying to unlock the

684
00:36:04,890 --> 00:36:09,300
keys so that you can effectively
achieve more time in your day, which

685
00:36:09,330 --> 00:36:11,880
is just not a replenishable asset.

686
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,300
So I wanna build more time in my day
so that I can focus on the things

687
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,710
that are gonna have the most impact
in my business and in my life.

688
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,380
Uh, so, so I'd say that's
definitely how you should be

689
00:36:22,380 --> 00:36:24,090
thinking it from, from the get.

690
00:36:25,620 --> 00:36:25,799
So

691
00:36:25,799 --> 00:36:29,250
Matt Edmundson: what is this methodology,
uh, that you, you make reference to?

692
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,000
Yoni Kozminski: Yeah, so, so the way we
structure it and, and I think there's,

693
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,299
there's lots of mistakes that people make
when they, you know, people's like, Yeah,

694
00:36:36,299 --> 00:36:37,950
yeah, yeah, I've got SOPs, I've got SOPs.

695
00:36:38,609 --> 00:36:42,180
Um, and then when you start to look
at what those SOPs, those standard

696
00:36:42,185 --> 00:36:46,920
operating procedures really are, they're
not at the level they need to be for

697
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,339
someone to effectively understand
exactly what's going on in the business.

698
00:36:50,339 --> 00:36:53,670
So Escala's sort of litmus
test, if you will, is.

699
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:59,130
Our expectation once we've delivered
a project, which can take 4, 6, 12

700
00:36:59,130 --> 00:37:03,030
months, depending on the size of the
business, is that within 15 seconds

701
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,080
of you coming into this documentation,
you'll understand exactly what you

702
00:37:07,085 --> 00:37:11,400
need to do up to the most granular
detail of what needs to be delivered.

703
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,910
And so, How we effectively
structure that is we look at

704
00:37:14,910 --> 00:37:17,010
a business as core processes.

705
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:21,810
So what are the four or five
core processes that happen

706
00:37:21,870 --> 00:37:22,740
inside of the business?

707
00:37:22,740 --> 00:37:24,810
So just to throw a few examples out there.

708
00:37:24,810 --> 00:37:24,900
Mm-hmm.

709
00:37:25,140 --> 00:37:28,320
, like for an e-commerce business,
product research and development

710
00:37:28,325 --> 00:37:29,850
might be a core process.

711
00:37:29,910 --> 00:37:37,215
Um, you might have as a core process you'd
have, um, Brand management would be a core

712
00:37:37,215 --> 00:37:39,555
process and customer, customer support.

713
00:37:39,555 --> 00:37:42,075
Those might be your four core processes.

714
00:37:42,645 --> 00:37:46,755
And then once you understand what those
core processes are as they relate to your

715
00:37:46,755 --> 00:37:51,195
business, you start moving to the next
layer down, which we call process groups.

716
00:37:51,405 --> 00:37:55,665
So process groups, they comprise
of multiple functions that work

717
00:37:55,665 --> 00:37:58,815
together end to end to provide
a, you know, effectively.

718
00:37:59,610 --> 00:38:02,460
A solution for that specific function.

719
00:38:02,460 --> 00:38:05,610
So let's take new product
discovery, for example.

720
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:11,250
Um, inside of that new product discovery
process group, you might have things

721
00:38:11,250 --> 00:38:14,850
like research and identify new product.

722
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:19,110
Um, you know, the next sub process
or process group might look like,

723
00:38:19,530 --> 00:38:25,020
um, you know, de develop product
and then hand over product to

724
00:38:25,050 --> 00:38:26,560
brand management might be the.

725
00:38:27,060 --> 00:38:28,350
Um, process groups.

726
00:38:28,350 --> 00:38:31,440
So you're looking at product
research and development, let's say.

727
00:38:31,610 --> 00:38:31,930
Mm-hmm.

728
00:38:31,936 --> 00:38:33,570
, and then inside of that,
you'd have new product.

729
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,260
Discovery as one of the process groups.

730
00:38:37,590 --> 00:38:42,060
And then the next layer down, and the
way we also approach it is you have like

731
00:38:42,065 --> 00:38:44,640
a, a numbering or a naming convention.

732
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:50,520
So for product research and development,
it might be 1.0, and then new product

733
00:38:50,525 --> 00:38:54,150
discovery, which would be the first
stage in the process group under that

734
00:38:54,150 --> 00:38:57,720
core process would be 1.1 new product D.

735
00:38:58,635 --> 00:39:05,805
And 1.2 might be, you know, develop
product and 1.3 might be pass on product.

736
00:39:06,135 --> 00:39:10,395
So the next layer down, uh, is now
where you start to get a little bit

737
00:39:10,395 --> 00:39:15,675
more visual of what's really happening
is what we call the sub-processes.

738
00:39:15,885 --> 00:39:18,105
So inside of the sub-processes.

739
00:39:18,105 --> 00:39:22,095
So again, following the same narrative
here from product research and

740
00:39:22,095 --> 00:39:23,565
development is the core process.

741
00:39:23,910 --> 00:39:24,960
New product discovery.

742
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:30,360
As the process group, a sub-process
might be, uh, receive new product ideas.

743
00:39:30,720 --> 00:39:33,780
So inside of that, this is
where you start to get into the

744
00:39:34,690 --> 00:39:36,390
granularity on what's happening.

745
00:39:36,390 --> 00:39:39,390
So this would be who's responsible?

746
00:39:39,390 --> 00:39:43,320
So let's say you have a product researcher
and a product development person.

747
00:39:44,279 --> 00:39:47,939
Um, this is where you'd actually
start to illustrate the process

748
00:39:47,939 --> 00:39:50,160
maps of the decision matrices.

749
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,160
So go into, I'm just gonna
use an Amazon example here.

750
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,459
So go into Helium 10, which
is a research, uh, tool.

751
00:39:56,609 --> 00:40:00,299
So go in, do you know the
product, the product researcher?

752
00:40:00,305 --> 00:40:01,350
We'll go into Helium 10.

753
00:40:01,919 --> 00:40:05,940
The next one will be, they'll look
inside of the black box, uh, function

754
00:40:05,940 --> 00:40:10,169
to understand what's the keyword, search
term volume, is there appetite for it?

755
00:40:10,169 --> 00:40:13,140
And you'd sort of move
along to understand yes, no.

756
00:40:13,140 --> 00:40:15,149
If yes, then continue on.

757
00:40:15,180 --> 00:40:18,029
If no, then it falls
down to the next stage.

758
00:40:18,629 --> 00:40:22,259
And, and once you're at that point,
that's when we start to go into the

759
00:40:22,259 --> 00:40:24,509
real granularities of what's happening.

760
00:40:25,545 --> 00:40:31,395
Level four is activities or that's
effectively like what you're delivering.

761
00:40:31,395 --> 00:40:35,385
So examples would be gather
product ideas from Helium, Ken's

762
00:40:35,385 --> 00:40:36,975
Black box, like I just mentioned.

763
00:40:36,975 --> 00:40:41,265
It would be create a new task inside
of your project management tool, like

764
00:40:41,265 --> 00:40:43,005
click up on Monday or Trello or Son.

765
00:40:43,010 --> 00:40:46,825
It would add product details
to the research specifications.

766
00:40:46,830 --> 00:40:50,565
It would be all of the more detailed
instructions of how you actually

767
00:40:50,565 --> 00:40:52,275
approached it, and then the very.

768
00:40:53,145 --> 00:40:58,875
Uh, stage is I, I would say what most
people would define as their SOPs, where

769
00:40:58,875 --> 00:41:03,015
that has the full working instructions
of every single stage inside of.

770
00:41:03,404 --> 00:41:08,475
The process of what's done under that
subcategory of the core processes

771
00:41:08,475 --> 00:41:11,384
to the process groups, to the
sub-processes, to the activities.

772
00:41:11,625 --> 00:41:12,585
So working instructions.

773
00:41:12,585 --> 00:41:17,714
So in that you might have video
examples for us, we do sort of two to

774
00:41:17,720 --> 00:41:21,585
five minutes, no longer of a a loom
video if it's something that's more

775
00:41:21,585 --> 00:41:26,745
complicated or screenshots or written
instructions as a combination with those

776
00:41:26,745 --> 00:41:29,145
screenshots or with those videos and.

777
00:41:30,090 --> 00:41:30,510
You.

778
00:41:30,750 --> 00:41:33,720
I mean, again, it's a little bit
tougher to do this where you're

779
00:41:33,720 --> 00:41:36,240
just listening at home without
having sort of the visual aid.

780
00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:40,050
But if you can imagine if I'm
looking for the first time inside

781
00:41:40,050 --> 00:41:41,610
of the product research component.

782
00:41:42,015 --> 00:41:45,105
Of a business or I'm like, Okay, I
have no idea what product I wanna

783
00:41:45,105 --> 00:41:47,685
bring to market, and I've never
worked in a business before, but I

784
00:41:47,685 --> 00:41:49,335
came from another eCommerce business.

785
00:41:49,335 --> 00:41:53,235
Well, I know, Okay, I'm gonna look in
the product research function and then

786
00:41:53,235 --> 00:41:55,305
I'm gonna go to new product discovery.

787
00:41:55,305 --> 00:41:58,755
And then from there I'm gonna go to
the sub process that has received new

788
00:41:58,755 --> 00:42:03,615
product idea and then I'll be able to
go, So I'm following 1.0, then 1.1,

789
00:42:03,615 --> 00:42:09,135
then 1.1 0.1 will be so you sort of
follow down the visual hierarchy until

790
00:42:09,135 --> 00:42:10,665
you get to the working instructions.

791
00:42:11,460 --> 00:42:15,330
Again, with the litmus test being
in 15 seconds, can we figure out

792
00:42:15,330 --> 00:42:16,589
exactly what needs to be done?

793
00:42:16,770 --> 00:42:19,440
You saw you sort of followed
this journey all the way down to

794
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,279
getting to the, the, the granular
details of what needs to be done.

795
00:42:23,285 --> 00:42:26,279
So I know that's a lot that I've
just, uh, sort of thrown at you there,

796
00:42:26,279 --> 00:42:26,549
Matt Edmundson: Matt.

797
00:42:26,549 --> 00:42:28,770
No, it's, it's, um, it's super helpful.

798
00:42:28,775 --> 00:42:31,650
I've made lots of notes, Yi,
which is always a good sign.

799
00:42:31,799 --> 00:42:37,845
Uh, and I like the idea of, um, you're
starting very, High level, aren't you?

800
00:42:37,845 --> 00:42:41,475
You're breaking things down into
more and more detail as you, as you

801
00:42:41,475 --> 00:42:42,855
go through that and understand that.

802
00:42:43,305 --> 00:42:46,585
And so when you go into a car,
I'm, I'm, I'm me, I'm just

803
00:42:46,590 --> 00:42:47,295
circling back to something

804
00:42:47,295 --> 00:42:47,955
Yoni Kozminski: that you said.

805
00:42:47,985 --> 00:42:51,465
Just let me, let me, let me just, uh,
share with you on that and you highlighted

806
00:42:51,470 --> 00:42:54,795
a really important point that I hope
everyone takes away from this is that,

807
00:42:55,305 --> 00:42:59,445
One of the number one mistakes that people
make when building process is they take

808
00:42:59,445 --> 00:43:03,345
what we define as a bottom up approach,
where you'll have a specific process

809
00:43:03,345 --> 00:43:05,055
and you just build out that process.

810
00:43:05,055 --> 00:43:08,115
So let's say we're talking about how
we recorded this podcast, and let's say

811
00:43:08,505 --> 00:43:13,035
going to Riverside, record the podcast,
ask the questions, go through it, but.

812
00:43:13,710 --> 00:43:16,560
What you've failed to understand
is what is the overarching

813
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,840
complexity of creating the podcast?

814
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:23,549
Well, there's a research team, and that
research team connects with Matt to give

815
00:43:23,555 --> 00:43:25,170
him the information to ask the right.

816
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,500
So if you're not looking at it
from a high level first and how it

817
00:43:28,500 --> 00:43:31,410
all breaks down, then what you're
effectively doing is you're missing.

818
00:43:31,965 --> 00:43:34,185
Key deliverables along the way.

819
00:43:34,185 --> 00:43:37,665
And so taking that approach of the
high level and understanding how does

820
00:43:37,665 --> 00:43:41,025
everything integrate inside of your
business is paramount to seeing the

821
00:43:41,030 --> 00:43:43,215
success of building out effective process.

822
00:43:43,545 --> 00:43:46,315
Sorry to cut you off, but,
but you really No, no, no.

823
00:43:46,319 --> 00:43:46,935
You go for it.

824
00:43:46,995 --> 00:43:51,105
It's a light bulb, uh, moment for, for
me to share with the, the listeners.

825
00:43:51,154 --> 00:43:51,495
No, no, it's

826
00:43:51,495 --> 00:43:51,855
Matt Edmundson: great.

827
00:43:52,305 --> 00:43:56,685
And it, it is, it's an
interesting thing that you said.

828
00:43:56,835 --> 00:43:59,325
And the thing which intrigues me is
something that you kind of hitting

829
00:43:59,325 --> 00:44:03,674
your comments, uh, earlier on, uh, with
scholarly, you were talking about how

830
00:44:04,305 --> 00:44:06,105
this is like a, this could be a 12 month.

831
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:11,400
Um, and so this is not, this is
not me sitting down to a Google

832
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:13,860
Doc one night and hammering it
all out in an hour and a half.

833
00:44:13,860 --> 00:44:20,100
Is it, This is, um, this is quite,
this is quite, uh, involved work,

834
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:21,900
uh, by the sounds of things.

835
00:44:22,380 --> 00:44:23,340
So what do I do?

836
00:44:23,370 --> 00:44:27,960
Y I I I get the idea of processes
and you, and as you were talking,

837
00:44:27,990 --> 00:44:31,770
I dunno if you remember the book,
um, or ever read it, you reminded

838
00:44:31,770 --> 00:44:35,490
me as you were talking of the, the
book, The EMyth by Michael Gerber Do.

839
00:44:35,490 --> 00:44:35,820
You know what I mean?

840
00:44:35,820 --> 00:44:36,420
Say that it's.

841
00:44:37,140 --> 00:44:39,720
It's just this, this is
sort of the modern version.

842
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:45,660
And then obviously he uses McDonald's as
a great example of, of, of a very scalable

843
00:44:46,130 --> 00:44:50,370
business because they have mapped their
processes to the point that teenagers,

844
00:44:50,580 --> 00:44:55,080
you know, who are having a bit of a cob
on that day can still work the system.

845
00:44:55,170 --> 00:44:55,500
Right.

846
00:44:55,505 --> 00:44:57,000
And you, and you go and that's genius.

847
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:57,600
I understand it.

848
00:44:58,380 --> 00:45:04,770
How do you allow for,
um, Uh, flare for Do.

849
00:45:04,770 --> 00:45:05,170
You know, what I mean?

850
00:45:05,175 --> 00:45:10,110
That sort of, that creative spark or
that, that sort of slight tangent, that

851
00:45:10,115 --> 00:45:12,210
leads to something quite interesting.

852
00:45:12,300 --> 00:45:17,460
Um, I think from, for someone who's quite
process orientated, this is, this is a

853
00:45:17,460 --> 00:45:22,439
beautiful thing for someone that just
likes to be, you know, Flower, Flower

854
00:45:22,439 --> 00:45:24,209
is the wrong word, but very spontaneous.

855
00:45:24,419 --> 00:45:28,770
Um, this is almost like putting them
in jail, uh, kind of conversations.

856
00:45:28,770 --> 00:45:31,350
How do I, how does, how
do I allow for that?

857
00:45:31,350 --> 00:45:32,370
How do I build that into

858
00:45:32,649 --> 00:45:32,910
Yoni Kozminski: the system?

859
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:33,720
Yeah.

860
00:45:33,720 --> 00:45:34,140
Great.

861
00:45:34,140 --> 00:45:35,160
Great question there.

862
00:45:35,220 --> 00:45:41,609
So, I think the way you need to frame
it is, While you're building out all

863
00:45:41,609 --> 00:45:44,970
of these processes, there's another
component that's connected to this.

864
00:45:44,970 --> 00:45:48,930
So when I look at a Escala, we sort
of take two tracks around scaling

865
00:45:49,170 --> 00:45:51,029
businesses or helping build them for exit.

866
00:45:51,029 --> 00:45:51,870
Operationally.

867
00:45:52,109 --> 00:45:54,690
We have the, uh, process optimization.

868
00:45:54,900 --> 00:45:56,640
Can we do this more effectively?

869
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:57,600
Is there a better way?

870
00:45:57,605 --> 00:45:57,930
Is there.

871
00:45:58,410 --> 00:46:02,040
You know, is there a way where we can
reduce the operating costs by, by being

872
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:03,870
more intelligent on how we structure it?

873
00:46:04,140 --> 00:46:05,609
And the other is the org strategy.

874
00:46:05,759 --> 00:46:07,920
So who do you need, when do you need them?

875
00:46:07,980 --> 00:46:11,940
And one of the fundamental things
here is building the accountabilities

876
00:46:11,970 --> 00:46:15,060
and responsibilities of each
of the team members that you

877
00:46:15,060 --> 00:46:17,100
bring into the organization.

878
00:46:17,190 --> 00:46:22,020
So, If you are building it in a way
where there's, again, this is, you know,

879
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:26,549
I mean this is stuff that I live and
breathe, obviously, but if you look at

880
00:46:26,549 --> 00:46:31,470
it at the macro level, you always wanna
be putting people into the right seats.

881
00:46:31,470 --> 00:46:35,730
The seats where they are going
to be most, uh, impassioned.

882
00:46:35,759 --> 00:46:39,690
They're going to love what they
do every, every single day.

883
00:46:39,694 --> 00:46:44,460
And so, If you want to create and maintain
that flare, then making sure that the

884
00:46:44,460 --> 00:46:48,240
accountabilities and responsibilities
delivered to the individual are

885
00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:49,950
aligned with their true skill sets.

886
00:46:49,950 --> 00:46:52,370
And so, You mentioned the EMyth.

887
00:46:52,370 --> 00:46:56,970
I think, um, a book that I found probably
more effective than the Emmy, while

888
00:46:56,970 --> 00:47:03,690
it's a great one, is Traction eos, if
you're familiar, I am very much so.

889
00:47:03,690 --> 00:47:07,770
That sort of takes into a lot more
of the account of how you can sort of

890
00:47:07,770 --> 00:47:11,970
structure this inside of a business
between sort of 10 and 250 people.

891
00:47:11,970 --> 00:47:15,359
So I'd say coming back to it all,
if you're a company that you only

892
00:47:15,359 --> 00:47:19,799
want to be 3, 5, 10 people building
out these processes, it's not gonna.

893
00:47:20,460 --> 00:47:22,440
Paramount to the success of your business.

894
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:26,940
Unless there's critical points where
you're gonna lose, uh, key personnel

895
00:47:26,940 --> 00:47:30,180
who are gonna get hit by buses all
the time, uh, you know, that's,

896
00:47:30,180 --> 00:47:31,530
that's, that's gonna be a problem.

897
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:31,920
Right.

898
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:36,600
But if it, if your ambition
is not to have 300 and.

899
00:47:37,259 --> 00:47:42,660
Whatever team members, then it's
about having focused, uh, attention

900
00:47:42,660 --> 00:47:44,160
on how far you want to take it.

901
00:47:44,279 --> 00:47:44,850
Um, mm-hmm.

902
00:47:45,240 --> 00:47:48,990
for me, you know, we can't run if we
don't have that level of documentation.

903
00:47:48,990 --> 00:47:52,680
So you can build that creativity
and flare into the accountabilities

904
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:55,740
and responsibilities, uh,
inside of those processes.

905
00:47:56,009 --> 00:47:58,620
And I'd also say the
processes are used as a guide.

906
00:47:58,979 --> 00:48:00,450
It's not necessarily.

907
00:48:00,780 --> 00:48:01,350
Gospel.

908
00:48:01,470 --> 00:48:05,370
It's not about you do this task
after this task, after this task.

909
00:48:05,370 --> 00:48:09,150
Like when we're building, uh,
KPIs and incentive programs.

910
00:48:09,210 --> 00:48:14,520
A big component of that is about hitting
specialized projects or, you know, we, we

911
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:19,620
run on EOS internally, so making sure that
our rocks align with the high level rocks

912
00:48:19,625 --> 00:48:22,050
are effectively 90 day rolling goals.

913
00:48:22,350 --> 00:48:23,820
And you have a scorecard.

914
00:48:24,384 --> 00:48:27,325
Each week, you make sure to see
whether you're on track or off

915
00:48:27,325 --> 00:48:30,745
track in achieving those goals as
they relate to that one year plan.

916
00:48:30,745 --> 00:48:32,154
Let let, let's give that example.

917
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:37,464
So again, you build the business strategy
for the 12 months forward and you

918
00:48:37,464 --> 00:48:39,145
work backwards in how you achieve it.

919
00:48:39,149 --> 00:48:44,754
And so as long as they're hitting those
goals, then that's what's paramount.

920
00:48:44,935 --> 00:48:48,654
And so they shouldn't be sort of put
in their box, but they'll always come

921
00:48:48,654 --> 00:48:52,315
back to the processes to make sure
that it's being delivered correctly.

922
00:48:53,065 --> 00:48:53,095
Mm.

923
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:54,419
That's

924
00:48:54,419 --> 00:48:56,339
Matt Edmundson: very good, very good.

925
00:48:56,700 --> 00:48:58,620
Listen, Yoni, I, I'm just getting started.

926
00:48:58,620 --> 00:48:59,520
I'm just getting warmed up.

927
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,890
I have so many questions,
but I'm also aware of time.

928
00:49:02,339 --> 00:49:05,139
Yoni, for those listening to the
show, how do they reach out to you?

929
00:49:05,139 --> 00:49:06,249
How do they connect with you?

930
00:49:06,249 --> 00:49:08,739
If they've got any questions,
which I'm sure they have all of.

931
00:49:09,419 --> 00:49:10,529
Yoni Kozminski: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

932
00:49:10,529 --> 00:49:14,429
Well, if you're specifically looking
at a Escala or Multiply Mii as

933
00:49:14,429 --> 00:49:17,969
solutions that are interesting to
you, um, I delegate accountabilities

934
00:49:17,969 --> 00:49:22,319
to much more intelligent people
than I am , so, so I'd say check out

935
00:49:22,399 --> 00:49:25,629
multiplymii.com or we are at Escala.com.

936
00:49:25,649 --> 00:49:27,899
And through that you can get
on a call with either Cat

937
00:49:27,899 --> 00:49:29,219
who's our director of business.

938
00:49:29,574 --> 00:49:34,734
Development or client engagement rather,
or Lippy, my co-founder who will take

939
00:49:34,734 --> 00:49:38,154
you on a discovery call and really
get to the core of how we can help.

940
00:49:38,214 --> 00:49:41,484
Um, if you're specifically looking to
connect with me, which I welcome and

941
00:49:41,484 --> 00:49:45,954
invite, it's just my name at either one
of those websites, multiplymii.com or

942
00:49:46,944 --> 00:49:48,094
weareescala.com.

943
00:49:48,169 --> 00:49:49,819
I'm pretty active on LinkedIn.

944
00:49:50,149 --> 00:49:53,179
Um, you can add me on Facebook or
I am absolutely terrible there.

945
00:49:53,179 --> 00:49:56,029
So, uh, apologies in advance if
that's where you're trying to find me.

946
00:49:57,769 --> 00:50:00,079
, 
Matt Edmundson: you're the wrong age
demographic for Facebook, aren't you?

947
00:50:00,409 --> 00:50:02,539
Uh, so all the stats
tell me I'm too young.

948
00:50:02,599 --> 00:50:04,579
What's the, what's the,
what's the age range?

949
00:50:04,579 --> 00:50:05,809
Yeah, to way too young I think.

950
00:50:05,809 --> 00:50:08,899
Don't you have to be like over
45 or something now for Facebook?

951
00:50:09,559 --> 00:50:10,069
Uh,

952
00:50:12,789 --> 00:50:13,389
Yoni Kozminski: Sorry guys.

953
00:50:13,389 --> 00:50:14,549
I . Yeah,

954
00:50:15,819 --> 00:50:16,719
Matt Edmundson: Instagram won't say.

955
00:50:16,989 --> 00:50:22,429
We will of course link to Yoni and uh, his
LinkedIn profile and to, weareescala.com.

956
00:50:22,479 --> 00:50:24,169
And, uh, Multiply Mii.

957
00:50:24,339 --> 00:50:27,159
We will put all of those links in
the show notes of course, as well,

958
00:50:27,159 --> 00:50:28,659
so you can also check those out

959
00:50:28,659 --> 00:50:29,969
eCommercepodcast.net.

960
00:50:30,519 --> 00:50:34,029
Uh, Yoni thank you so much
for being on the show.

961
00:50:34,429 --> 00:50:35,319
Honestly, pages of notes.

962
00:50:36,129 --> 00:50:37,449
Mainly more questions.

963
00:50:37,479 --> 00:50:41,469
Uh, and I, I'm, it is great when you have
these conversations because it just gets

964
00:50:41,469 --> 00:50:43,089
the old gray matter thinking, doesn't it?

965
00:50:43,089 --> 00:50:46,329
And you just kinda like, Oh,
that's, that's interesting.

966
00:50:46,334 --> 00:50:49,809
And I, I valued the conversation
about meaning as well as, uh, this

967
00:50:49,809 --> 00:50:51,339
whole conversation about process.

968
00:50:51,344 --> 00:50:52,779
So thank you so much for being with.

969
00:50:53,494 --> 00:50:54,814
Yoni Kozminski: Thank you
so much for having me.

970
00:50:54,814 --> 00:50:58,234
And yeah, if, uh, anyone's been listening
in for this long, I hope, uh, you got

971
00:50:58,234 --> 00:51:01,414
a little bit of value out of all the
nonsense that I, uh, typically, uh, talk

972
00:51:03,154 --> 00:51:03,824
. 
Matt Edmundson: Thanks Yoni.

973
00:51:04,264 --> 00:51:05,584
So there you have it.

974
00:51:05,884 --> 00:51:06,364
Great mate.

975
00:51:06,424 --> 00:51:07,684
What a great conversation.

976
00:51:07,689 --> 00:51:07,984
Huge.

977
00:51:07,984 --> 00:51:10,264
Thanks again to Yi for joining me today.

978
00:51:10,324 --> 00:51:14,674
And also, let me give another
big shout out to today's show.

979
00:51:14,674 --> 00:51:20,074
Sponsor the ecommercec cohort, uh,
head over to eCommercecohort.com

980
00:51:20,304 --> 00:51:24,084
for more information about this new
type of membership and community

981
00:51:24,084 --> 00:51:27,294
that you can, should, uh, join now.

982
00:51:27,294 --> 00:51:30,564
Be sure to subscribe wherever you
get your podcast from because we

983
00:51:30,564 --> 00:51:34,514
have some great conversations lined
up and I don't want you to miss.

984
00:51:35,304 --> 00:51:41,394
Any of them, and in case no one has told
you today, you my friend, are awesome.

985
00:51:41,544 --> 00:51:44,124
Utterly, utterly awesome.

986
00:51:44,694 --> 00:51:47,634
The E-Commerce podcast is
produced by Aurion Media.

987
00:51:47,634 --> 00:51:51,804
You can find our entire archive of
episodes on your favorite podcast app.

988
00:51:52,164 --> 00:51:55,454
The team that makes this show
possible is, Sadaf Beynon, Josh

989
00:51:55,454 --> 00:51:58,214
Catchpole,Estella Robin, and Tim Johnson.

990
00:51:58,604 --> 00:52:02,654
Uh, theme song has been written by
my good self, my incredible son.

991
00:52:02,954 --> 00:52:08,384
Uh, and if you would like to know, uh,
more, uh, no more read the show notes

992
00:52:08,384 --> 00:52:11,444
and transcripts, I suppose it in effect
what I'm trying to say, uh, you can

993
00:52:11,444 --> 00:52:15,434
get them full free head over to our
website, eCommercepodcast.net where you

994
00:52:15,694 --> 00:52:18,704
can also sign up for our newsletter.

995
00:52:19,034 --> 00:52:20,204
So that's it for me.

996
00:52:20,204 --> 00:52:21,134
Thank you so.

997
00:52:21,609 --> 00:52:22,479
For joining me.

998
00:52:22,479 --> 00:52:23,679
Have a fantastic week.

999
00:52:23,739 --> 00:52:25,089
I will see you next time.

1000
00:52:25,509 --> 00:52:26,129
Bye for

1001
00:52:26,129 --> 00:52:26,329
now.