YPM POD EP102 - Attorney Nicole Reeves Lavallee

===

mps: [00:00:00] Hey, law firm owners. Welcome to the YPM podcast. We're your hosts. I'm MPS.

Richard James: And I am Richard James, you heard us talking about the EAY finalist and really the most important thing you should do to help you get to the next level in 2025 or any year, quite frankly, is to review the year in the past.

And so what we are gonna do today is we are gonna talk to one of the four finalists who competed in our entrepreneurial attorney of the year contest whereby they submit their application, they have to go through a bunch of hoops to get us all the numbers they need to compare where they were in 2023 as compared to where they finished in 2024, and then our leadership team chooses from all the applicants and picks four finalists.

And today we get the opportunity to speak to Nicole Reeves, lavalle and her husband Warren, and about the journey they've had.

Nicole and Warren being one of the four finalists, it really is an honor amongst your peers, so congratulations to you. Welcome to the call today.

Attorney Nicole Reeves Lavallee: [00:01:00] Thank you.

Richard James: You're welcome.

mps: absolutely and very well deserved. You had a terrific 2024, but I know 2023. Re heading into 2024. I think the big challenge early on there was turnover with staff. So what I wanna jump right into is, if an attorney listening to this right now is dealing with turnover challenges, what's the one thing you'd tell them to do today?

Attorney Nicole Reeves Lavallee: I think you tell 'em to always be looking to hire people. Don't ever stop looking to hire people 'cause you don't know what life's gonna change and how they're going to leave you or what's gonna happen. So I think that's the biggest tidbit I can offer because you have the core team and you're gonna have people that are gonna come and go.

You're always gonna be looking to hire and grow.

Richard James: Warren, do you agree with that?

Warren Lavallee: True. That's so true. I do agree. And it's possible to make more money with less people. If the people who are leaving are the right people to leave, then that's actually a positive

Possible. 'cause we did it.

Richard James: Got it. And so that, this whole idea of, [00:02:00] Nicole, talk to me a little bit about what it felt like when Warren wasn't on the team and you had it to yourself and you had a fair amount of turnover. What did that feel like to you as the owner of a law firm?

Attorney Nicole Reeves Lavallee: I wanted to bang my head against the wall constantly.

It's very frustrating and it's even more frustrating when you're trying to run a business and you're trying to be a lawyer and what's gonna give. So either you're gonna spend an exorbitant amount of time trying to get it done, or you're going to be that person because you don't have that team member. So it becomes daunting.

Richard James: Got it.

mps: It can be a very daunting thing, which is a perfect segue. I'm curious what for you was the scariest decision you had to make to grow your firm, and I'm a secondary part to that. What finally pushed you to do it?

Attorney Nicole Reeves Lavallee: The scariest thing was hiring my husband. It was the scariest thing because I'm going, I'm offering him a lot of money and I don't know if he's going to be able to do [00:03:00] anything, but he said he was interested, so let's do this. So without knowing whether or not I had the capability to do it, because I'm not one that takes on debt, it was extremely scary.

Richard James: Warren, were you scared when you walked in or was it was, were you confident? Like where did you stand when you were walking? Were you not sure what you were walking into? I don't know how much overlap and conversation you guys had on the back porch at night after you both came home from the office and talking about your respective days?

Did you know what the office environment looked like and how did you feel about it?

Warren Lavallee: I've been doing office work probably with her for the last 10 or 20 years. I don't remember. I can't remember anymore, but,

Richard James: Okay.

Warren Lavallee: I knew what the office was like, but I was excited and says she made me an offer, but I didn't. Didn't even know how much I was making and I said yes. You know, I accepted it on Faith 'cause I thought that's where, what I was supposed to be and I wasn't nervous at all.

I thought it'd be fun it is fun.

Richard James: Okay. So Warren, for the benefit of everybody it's great that we, she was fortunate, Nicole was fortunate enough to have a rockstar like [00:04:00] yourself in the family, but not everybody's gonna have that. So tell me, what skills do you think you brought to the table that helped get you to where you are right now, and at least in the last year, and where you're going from here?

Warren Lavallee: I've been an IT person for forever. I am very good at coding systems. I'm very good at being logical and analyzing things. Not so good with people, the Lord gives you what you need when you need it. The management part is probably. The weakest part that I was at, the analysis and the scripts and the automation, that was all easy and that was just a no brainer.

For example, we were doing billing, I think it was our first billing we were doing after she hired me and she says, here you go Warren, and you're gonna be doing this now. I said, heck no. There ain't no way I'm gonna be doing that. That is so manual. And I went off for half an hour or 45 minutes and I wrote a script that, replaced the four hour process and do 15 minutes.

And now I run the script during [00:05:00] billing everything. So that's the kind of stuff I'm really good at.

Richard James: Yeah.

Warren Lavallee: stuff are the people issues for me.

Richard James: that's great. I love that because you are really strong in process, not so strong in people, but as you said, you figure it out and you're gonna continue to figure that out. And we are we're people ourselves, so we'll figure out how to deal with people over time. We can become better managers.

It's tough to take somebody. Who's not real logical, not real process driven, and turn them into that type of individual 'cause it's against their nature. So I love that. The nugget is if you're gonna hire somebody that's gonna help you organize your business, depending on what level of law firm you're in, you probably need somebody who's highly logical, highly process driven, and it wouldn't hurt if they understood how to build out automations.

Nicole, anything you want to add to that?

Attorney Nicole Reeves Lavallee: Yeah, I. I took everything that you guys taught me for the last five years, and this is really good and I can do this, but I was always doing the little projects because the big projects were scripting that I had no clue and I'm like, I don't know how to do this [00:06:00] automation. So I think it really helped to have him in this role because now he's doing so much more that I could have been, there could have been an EAAY finalist five years ago had I hired him.

Richard James: Yeah, but I think you're an EOI finalist. Exactly. When you're supposed to be an eeo, I finalist. That's just how it goes. So if we go with the universe that God created and the fact that things happen the way they're supposed to happen, NPS, anything you want to add to this automation or do you wanna pivot to another question?

mps: I think the automation's really helpful and I think having that other indivi and we've seen this right reg, we've seen this time and time again where a spouse or even just a partner in the business. Is not an attorney and how powerful that can be for the law firm. And I think we're witnessing that once again and how powerful that can be for the law firm.

And you guys have done that very well. And Nicole, one of the things you had mentioned there was you've learned a lot of things over the last five years in Partners Club, but I'm curious, what was the strategy or the lesson from Partners Club that completely changed how you run your firm?

What was [00:07:00] that for you?

Attorney Nicole Reeves Lavallee: Good question. I think, it really was. It was being able to automate. So again, going back to implementing flow, figuring out what flow was and not being behind the eight ball. That's really what it is. It changed everything from being behind the eight ball all the time, scrambling to get everything done, not committing malpractice to, oh my God, we're actually making money now.

Richard James: Yeah. So I wanna frame this for everybody and then I wanna get to Warren's part of this answer. So the frame is. Getting business was really never a big part of your challenge. I remember, Nicole, that there was a window in time when we'd mystery shopped your firm, and you actually told the mystery shopper, who you didn't tell them, but somebody told the mystery shopper, sorry, we're not accepting any new business at this time, and we'll refer you over. And I was like, appalled. I was like, what? And then, you, we talked about where your capacity was and so getting business wasn't really the issue. You had plenty of business. It was getting the people to get the work done. And by the way, is that a correct statement?

Attorney Nicole Reeves Lavallee: That is [00:08:00] a hundred percent true.

Richard James: Okay, so that's great 'cause that's not always everybody's challenge.

And so this was your challenge, like we say, is this whole thing meets you where you are at and where you were at was you couldn't get people to get the work done. Enter Warren who is process driven, logical. Enter this management framework that we call flow that you had ref referenced. And so this is just a different way to go about utilizing a management structures, lots of management structures out there.

This is one that was invented by Bert Diener and you guys fully adopted it. Warren, I am curious, I know you'd used similar things to flow in the past in your IT world. What is it about flow, and maybe if you wanna explain the way you guys have used it. That has helped benefit you and get you ahead of the ball rather than being behind the eight ball.

Warren Lavallee: Flow is really good. We did try to use it previously in it, but I don't think we ever used it. And every time I. Raised up issues to management. They said, oh, you can do that any way you want to. And we never did it in a way that was accountable. [00:09:00] But

Richard James: Got it.

Warren Lavallee: at Res Valley we used it in a way that's accountable.

And that was one of the ways we held people to their commitments. Where before we used to have all these tasks that were always overdue, maybe 30 or 40 at a time, which is really bad. If you ask Nicole, she'll tell you. Extreme detail, why that's really bad. But then when we started putting them in front of people every day and we started holding them accountable to actually getting work done in flow and how come you can't do it and what can we change so that you can get more done And then we actually doing change to try to get them more, able to do more work.

I think that was very helpful. I think the accountability and the the feedback system where we can fix problems. Over time, and nobody's perfect. We may put something in place and it may not work. Then the following week we try something else and we just keep iterating until we, fix the problem.

And I think we did that several times. So I'd say accountability. I. And then once the to-do problems went away we'd moved to something [00:10:00] else, which was also a good thing, and then we'd start working on that. So it's just a, it's a process and I think everybody understands the process now, and everybody believes in our business,

Richard James: Do you think that having utilizing that flow system, and this isn't me, pitching flow, but I just we could call it any system that we want. It just happens to be that Bert invented this formula and I think it works really well. So do you believe using this framework that we call flow and having the accountability and having a way to look at things on a daily and weekly basis or a sprint basis, do you think that, this has helped bring the culture of your firm and your team closer together, which is why you seem to be keeping your core people more, there's more core people that you're keeping now more than ever.

Attorney Nicole Reeves Lavallee: I do. And I think it's also because, they're understanding what benefit it is. They're seeing the benefit, they're seeing it in bonuses, they're seeing it in commissions, they're seeing it in happiness overall, where I'm not screaming at somebody for no reason. So [00:11:00] all of those reasons is really, I think it, it builds that culture that they're going, this is cool, we can stay here.

Richard James: that's great. NPS, what do you think about the, this idea of flow and the accountability and giving a structure where people can see their wins or life becomes a little easier, there's less stress on the owner. What have you seen in our business with flow?

mps: Just that it is it's an accountability tool. And to Nicole's point. The team has a much clearer vision on what it is they're trying to accomplish. So rather than just getting tasks every day and not fully understanding, in some cases, okay what's the end goal of this? It's very clear because we've got clearly defined sprints.

Here's what the goal is, here's your daily goals, and now it's your time to report on it. So the accountability and the clear vision helped not only the team come together, but I think it just created a more seamless. System for everybody involved. And so you implement that throughout the business, you start to get a much more automated and seamless business that's running on all [00:12:00] cylinders.

So I think flow has been not only terrific for the law firms that have taken it and implemented it, but personally it's been awesome for us. And we've seen the effects of that. And I wanted to talk Nicole about Partners Club for a second. For those Listening Partners Club. It's a community of entrepreneurial attorneys, but for you what has that community meant for you in terms of a support system?

So what's been the biggest benefit of having that community alongside you?

Attorney Nicole Reeves Lavallee: Oh, there's so many different choices there. I think, it boils down to, I love the fact that we have a family law group now, and I can bounce ideas off of them. So I think that's great. I've actually gotten referrals from several members because Massachusetts is small, so you wanna come here, you're gonna get me. But I think you also have the comradery of our weekly PIP groups meetings and obviously going to Partners Club events are great too. So I think. Each part of it has a different dynamic, but I love the fact that I can ask somebody something. They're not judgmental and even what they are, [00:13:00] they're nice about it. But they're giving me feedback that I really need, and I actually hear it and listen and follow through with it.

Richard James: You know my favorite thing about what you said there. Was you didn't say, oh, it's the lessons that Michael and Richard teach us from stage. You didn't say that. And I'm not saying that sarcastically, like I'm offended. I mean that sincerely. Like we have always developed Partners Club to be an implementation program where peers hold one another accountable and build a community that's not like anywhere else.

And this isn't a pitch for Partners Club, but it is. I want to point out to those that are listening. There's a real power behind being in a community where everybody's moving in the same direction and you can bounce ideas off them. I certainly hope the founders, give you quality information from time to time, and we say an intelligent thing or two, but I think that it's more important to have that community.

Now, Warren, I'm curious, you've come in from the other side, not a non-attorney. And coming in on the operations side, as you come into [00:14:00] Partners Club it, do you see it differently or for you, is it also the community aspect?

Warren Lavallee: That's a, that's an interesting question that I could answer various ways. has spoken to me. I like Partners Club because you give me unique ideas.

Richard James: Yeah.

Warren Lavallee: I'm a squirrel. I'm storing away these ideas that everybody gives me, both from the stage and in the audience and other people around who are telling us how they're doing things.

Richard James: Right.

Warren Lavallee: And I don't think one system's gonna solve anybody's specific problem, but I think if you take. Pieces from everybody's system, and then you apply them intelligently that you're gonna come up with the system that's perfect for you.

Richard James: Yeah.

Warren Lavallee: a squirrel and I'm storing these little nuts. And then when I need a nut I grab it and I take it, and then I try to implement it.

And that's how I look at Partners Club.

Richard James: I agree. So NPS, you know this idea where one of our members can take an idea and make it their own, and then they share that with somebody else and somebody else makes it their own, makes this whole environment powerful. Wouldn't you agree? [00:15:00] NPS.

mps: Of course, and it just goes back to the overall concept that the powers in the community. So the powers in the community in being able to tap into that community and collaborate with that community. And sure, that may mean a system of, a system, of a system, but if that system has worked for that person, excellent.

That's what this is for, right? So it's leaning into that as just a powerful tool. And look, you guys are in a unique position this year. You're an EAY finalist. So first and foremost, Nicole, I've just gotta ask. How does it feel, how does it feel to be an EAY finalist Warren? How does it feel?

How does all of this

Attorney Nicole Reeves Lavallee: It feels extremely good and daunting. I'm actually not afraid of the stage. I have no problems with that. I don't really know what I'm gonna say yet. I'm more concerned about the PowerPoint than anything else, but I'm excited because I think that we have done so much that I really wanna be able to tell everyone. Maybe you can take away this tidbit or this tidbit, because I think every presentation you take away one or two.

Richard James: Warren, do you want a plus one on that before I comment?

Warren Lavallee: Plus one. I think Nicole is [00:16:00] very excited. I'm peace. I'm, I'm. I'm neither way I'm middle of the road on it. I.

Richard James: I think that's 'cause you just expected you guys to be here or, if I'm honest, like I just think you looked at what was going on. You're like, man, you did such a great job getting it to where it was. Nicole, I. I'll, let me take my operation, logical and structure brain and put it together, and I think this is just gonna work, which is why you were excited.

And I don't think this, I think this was foregone conclusion for you. I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but I feel you just were confident that this is where this was gonna be the end result. At least the success was gonna be the end of result. Whether it was gonna be an EY finalist or not is another question, but success, I think was a foregone conclusion for you.

Would you agree with that?

Attorney Nicole Reeves Lavallee: Yeah, I definitely it was, and it was funny because I was so close to meeting my goals and I just could taste it and I, it was frustrating to not push it over the limit on some, and one of them I excelled. So that was great for me.

Richard James: Nice. I I I just want to say congratulations to both of you. I've had the pleasure to watch your journey from the beginning and, [00:17:00] can remember feeling, man, I just do I drive to Massachusetts and or fly to Massachusetts and go up and kick some butt with the team that keeps leaving.

What's going on here? And I don't know, I didn't know what was going on. 'cause I know, you're such a wonderful human and you had this turnover issue and then, we find out. It was really nothing more than the fact that you were overwhelmed and there were just, there were skill sets you didn't possess that you possess many other skill sets and there were skill sets that Warren, the person that you hired, happened to be your husband did possess, and it just allowed to free up some time for you, which allows you to become a better leader make people understand how much you care and why you care about not just them, but your clients as well as the company. And it allowed Warren to make their lives easier, utilizing a framework and a system and automation. And so I can see it now, but I'll be honest, when I, when you were going through it, I was frustrated for you. I wanted to see you win, and I'm so excited that you have one today.

NPS Yeah.

Anything you want to add? NPS.

mps: No outside of course, the [00:18:00] congratulations because it's well deserved, but what's next? You guys have had a stellar year. What's next on the totem pole for you?

Warren Lavallee: I think it's just continued growth finding those extra couple teammates. To come in and really fill the gaps that we have and continued growth. We've had the best three months so far, so we're just gonna keep plugging away doing what we're doing. And like I said, once we have those extra team members, I think we're good.

We're looking, for another attorney and we're looking to hire a couple of part-time people.

Warren Lavallee: We have a lot of full-time turnover that, you know, but we're trying to minimize that risk by having multiple part-time people. And then if we lose one part-time person, it's less of a effect on the business and we can just adjust hours.

Richard James: Yeah, when you're an hourly billing firm. And the owner can get out of their own way of being it has to be me. Like they, it, I'm the only one who could do it as well as it could be done. So I can't have any other associate doing it because I don't trust them or whatever. If we can get, if we get out of the way, which you guys obviously did and we can, and we [00:19:00] have the business coming in and we have frameworks and systems and structures and we have. A good core group of people. Then all we have to do is make sure there's enough lead set shows, hires coming in to fill that attorney's calendar. And you're right, Warren, at that point it is. They become the manufacturing machine of the legal industry of, of an hourly billing firm For sure. And in this particular case, I a hundred percent agree with you. The way you're gonna grow an hourly billing firm once you have a good hold on generating business is to make sure you have enough people being able to generate the billable hour.

mps: attorney Nicole Reeves, lavalle from high Turnover to high profits, is 75% surge in owners benefits.

Warren Lavallee: amazing.

Richard James: So 75% surge in owner's benefit. This is the point I wanted to make about this headline and we're gonna be coming to the end here, but here's the point, Nicole, when you were originally gonna hire Warren, you scheduled a call with me because you're like, can I afford [00:20:00] this? Do you remember that call?

And we went in and we looked at your profit account and we're like, yep, you got it. You're good. And now, not only could you afford it, but you've grown owner's benefit by 75% in your wildest imagination, did you think that was possible?

Attorney Nicole Reeves Lavallee: Not at all.

Richard James: Not at all. Are you happy you made that decision?

Attorney Nicole Reeves Lavallee: I am.

Richard James: Yeah. Warren, have you asked for a raise yet?

Warren Lavallee: I didn't know that was on the table, but I will bring it up now.

Richard James: Well guys, congratulations on your success. Thanks for sharing some time with us today. We'll let you get back to your world and I'm sure this will be going out within the next probably two to three weeks. Alright,

good.