Matt Edmundson: Welcome to this week's Crowd Church service.
We are a digital church on a quest to discover how Jesus helps
us live a more meaningful life.
We are a community, a space to explore the Christian faith and a place
where you can contribute and grow.
Our service This will last about an hour and in a few seconds you'll
meet our hosts for our service who will introduce today's talk.
After the talk we will have a time of worship and reflection after which we
head into Conversation Street where we look at your stories and questions
that you've posted in the comments.
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Next, for more details, and now, the moment you've been
waiting for is here, our online church service starts right now.
Dan Orange: Welcome everyone, to a, blurry me, yeah I'm in focus,
Matt Edmundson: yeah,
Dan Orange: it likes you Matt, AI has favoured Matt, what can I say, welcome
this week to Crowd it's, great to be here.
Yeah.
Thanks Matt for joining me.
Change, change the schedule.
Change the
Matt Edmundson: schedule.
Yeah, it was supposed to be you and Ruth, but I just put your hand up
in front of your eyes like that.
And no.
In front of your face.
No.
Right out in front of you like that.
And cover your eyes and the camera should refocus on your eyes.
And there you go.
Yeah, no, it's still not.
Wow.
Okay.
Welcome everyone to Crowd Church.
This is a very good illustration of one of us being in focus and
one of us not being in focus.
We need to, I need to think about why that's doing that while the talk's on.
We'll have a little think about that, but welcome to church.
Yeah, it's great to be here.
It is.
Yeah.
Even me.
I know.
It's not, we don't normally do host together.
Dan Orange: No, I get to press the buttons this time.
I make mistakes and Matt can just chat and cover
Matt Edmundson: it up.
You know what, it's weird being in this seat.
Dan Orange: I've got the power.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, absolutely.
So if this is your first time with us, very warm welcome to you.
There are normally two people like me and Dan hosting.
We have the person who sits in this seat just to let you know.
They drive production, they've got all the controls.
And the person that sits in this seat is like the co pilot.
Yes,
Dan Orange: yeah, I get to ask you the questions in theory.
Yeah,
Matt Edmundson: and so you are the main host.
I'm the sort of the co host, which is a beautiful thing.
And so this is what I mean, I don't normally, I normally
sit here where Dan sits.
And so because it's only really the two of us that do all the tech.
Yes, one of us has to be in that seat.
It's essential.
Yeah, it's quite nice that we're both together.
So yeah, a very warm welcome to you.
Dan Orange: And we've got Dave Conn speaking to us today, continuing
our series on becoming whole.
He's going to talk about fasting, which is going to be an interesting topic.
Yeah.
And something that's Yeah.
Yeah, if you're not a Christian or you've not been around, I don't know,
church life it's quite an odd topic.
In fact, it's an odd topic, but it's come back.
It's super trendy now.
Yeah, super trendy, isn't it?
Because it's yeah,
Matt Edmundson: yeah.
Do you do intermittent?
Do you do IF?
That's what they say, isn't it?
Do you do IF?
Yeah, I intermittent fast 16 hours a day.
I'm 16, eight.
And if you're really hardcore, I'm 24, man.
Yeah, I'm like, yeah,
So we're not talking
Dan Orange: about intermittent
Matt Edmundson: fasting, and don't get me wrong, intermittent fasting
is healthy, the science is there, but it's interesting, isn't it?
I hope I'm not stealing David's words, but it's interesting with this whole fasting
thing, because christians and other faiths have been doing this for millennia.
Yes.
And it's like the last
Dan Orange: five years, scientists have gone, this is
actually really good for you.
Oh, no.
Yeah.
And everyone's oh, fasting is brilliant.
Matt Edmundson: And all the Christians are like, okay.
. Okay, we knew that.
I'm fairly sure we knew that.
Now once it's, as soon as you tie it with health, people wanna do it right.
Because there's a benefit in it for them.
You take, if you don't have that, people are like, there's
no, I'm not gonna eat food.
Yeah.
What's wrong with you?
I'm just, you mad go without food.
Why?
Yeah.
And yeah, we're gonna get into all of that.
See?
Dan Orange: Yes.
Yeah.
So let's see if we have people just gonna rob, Dave talk let the may know speak.
Yeah.
Okay.
I'm Sam.
Yeah, so let's get it started, shall we?
And if you've got any questions, just type them in as we're, as the
Matt Edmundson: talk's on.
We'd love to hear from you in the comments, whether you're on
YouTube, whether you're on Facebook.
Dan Orange: Yeah, whack them in.
We get them all here in big writing, so Matt can see without his glasses on.
I said to Dan earlier, with the
Matt Edmundson: way he'd set it up, I said, Do you mind if I
just change this a little bit so I can at least see the screen?
Because he's got his glasses on, I haven't got mine on, so no fair play.
Cool, alright, you're in charge, I was going to say that's from BT,
Dave Connolly: we are continuing our series entitled Unlocking Wholeness.
Today's reading is taken from Daniel, chapter 10, verses 2 and 3.
At that time, I, Daniel, mourned for three weeks.
I ate no choice food, no meat or wine touched my lips.
And I used no lotions at all until the three weeks were over.
Today, we briefly want to take a few moments to look at the topic of fasting.
We generally don't talk a lot about the spiritual discipline of fasting, and I'm
certainly not an expert on this topic.
According to the media, fasting has become quite trendy in certain parts of society.
I read that you can go to a health spa for a weekend, and they will feed you
apple and celery cocktails, herbal teas, laxatives, bees pollen, blended soups,
and water mixed with squeezed lemons.
I believe this is under their Branding of Detox and Weight Loss?
I'm not sure that's something for me.
Yet, many Christians don't know exactly what fasting is, or are not
clear on how or why they should fast.
However, considering that even Jesus fasted, and you can read that in
Matthew 4 verse 2, and that he assumed that his followers would also fast.
It is a Biblical practice.
That we should not ignore.
A definition of fasting is abstaining from food for a period of time.
And there are many different types of fasting.
Usually, fasting means we don't eat food but we can still drink water.
Sometimes it means abstaining from food and water, and you can read about that in
the book of Esther, chapter 4, verse 16.
Then at the other end of the spectrum, it could mean giving up only certain types
of food or drink, as we read in Daniel.
In Daniel, chapter 1, verse 12, it tells us that Daniel abstained from the food
he would have preferred, such as meat and wine, and other delicacies, choosing
to have only vegetables and water.
People also sometimes use the term fast in reference to abstaining
from other things besides food.
Some people fast social media.
The bible even mentions that husbands and wives.
Temporarily abstain from sex in order to focus on prayer.
Now the scripture for that is found in 1 Corinthians chapter 7 verse 5.
The idea is very similar in that we are voluntarily giving up something good
in order to focus on something greater.
That's right, our relationship with God.
However, the word fasting technically refers to abstaining from food.
At this point, it's very important for me to stress that, if you have
a medical condition, or if you are on medication, we must be wise, and
don't do anything unsafe or foolish.
Check it out with your healthcare professionals.
In those situations, you might consider doing something like a
Daniel Fast, where you abstain from only certain types of food.
You might be asking, why should we fast?
That's a really good question.
The main point of fasting is to help us or to cause us to focus our attention on God.
It provides that focus in a few ways.
The time and the effort normally spent cooking and eating can be spent in prayer,
contemplation and reading scripture.
Also, if we wanted to, we could give the money we would spend on food, or the food
itself can be donated to care for others.
When we fast, we get hungry.
I find the hunger serves as a reminder to me why I'm fasting.
helps keep me focused.
Every time we feel hunger when fasting, use that as a prompt to pray.
I feel compelled to say at this point also that fasting without making time to
pray is just another weight loss program.
Fasting for a specific purpose Such as seeking God's guidance
when big decisions are being made, praying about important issues.
This reminds us of the seriousness of the situation.
Without a specific purpose, the focus of the fast becomes the fast itself.
We are just hungry for the sake of being hungry.
But when we fast for a purpose, we are demonstrating the significance
of that which we are fasting for.
Fasting serves as an acknowledgement that we want to seek God even
more than we want to eat.
Fasting can help us focus on the giver instead of his gifts.
Food is a gift from God.
But how often do we fully appreciate God's goodness in how
he provides everything we need?
Going without food or abstaining from any gift of God makes us more appreciative
of both the gift and the giver.
Those are all good reasons for fasting.
I should probably take a moment to highlight some wrong motives for fasting.
Or some misunderstandings about why Christians should fast.
Fasting cannot make us right with God.
It's not a religious observance required to get God on our side.
Ephesians chapter 2, tells us there's no action on our part
that can earn God's grace.
It's only through Jesus sacrifice on the cross that we are saved.
Fasting does not obligate God to answer our prayers.
God doesn't owe us anything and there's no way to put God in our debt.
Fasting does not make God more likely to hear our prayer or do what we ask.
Yet we read in 1 John 5 verse 14 and 15 that he always hears our prayers and
he always acts according to his will.
Fasting should not be done to impress others.
It should not be motivated by trying to show others how righteous or
self righteous, or religious we are.
Galatians chapter 1 verse 10 tells us we should seek God through
fasting, not the approval of man.
In the Bible, fasting is usually prompted by some significant event
or decision that needs to be made.
People fasted to pray for specific things.
We read in Ezra chapter 8 verse 21 and 23.
They fasted when mourning a loss in 2 Samuel chapter 1 They fasted to
repent from their sin in 1 Samuel 7, 6.
They fasted to dedicate their lives to God in Acts 14, 23.
They do it to seek God's guidance, we read in Judges 20, verses 26 to 28.
They also fasted for deliverance from their enemies.
2 Chronicles 20 verse 1 to 4.
Of course we have the freedom to fast at any time, and some people choose to
practice fasting on a regular basis.
Yet, let's make sure that we are fasting for the right reason and not based
on one of the misunderstandings or wrong motivations that I've mentioned.
Let me also say that although Jesus seems to assume that his followers would
sometimes fast, the Bible stops short of explicitly commanding Christians to fast
and it certainly does not say that we must follow a specific fasting schedule.
So don't fast out of a sense of obligation.
or rule keeping?
Instead, let's fast out of freedom and our love, the love that we read about
in Galatians chapter 5, verse 13 and 14.
You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free, but do not use
your freedom to indulge in the flesh.
Rather, serve one another humbly in love, for the entire law is
fulfilled in keeping this one command.
Love your neighbours as yourself.
Focus on the goodness and the mercy of God, like we read in Psalm 23 verse 6.
As we draw to a close, could I leave two thoughts with you that
seem to capture fasting for me?
The first is by Dallas Willard, and it says this, Fasting confirms our utter
dependence upon God by finding Him in a source of substance beyond food.
The second thought is by Bill Bright, which says fasting reduces the power
of self so that the Holy Spirit can do a more intense work in us.
My prayer is as we consider this topic of fasting, it draws us closer
to the presence of God himself and we learn of our utter dependence on him.
God
Matt Edmundson: bless you.
And we're back.
Yeah.
Thanks Dave for that.
I love Dave.
Dave's talks are always like short.
Yes, short and
Dan Orange: sweet.
Matt Edmundson: Just like point after point after point.
You're like, hang on.
There's only so many notes I can make.
Yeah.
Sorry, you're in control.
I am,
Dan Orange: yeah.
He just keeps talking.
Matt Edmundson: Sorry everybody, I'm just not used to seeing
Dan Orange: him like this.
So Matt.
Yeah.
What things jumped out to you in the talk?
What was the sort of the You all sort made bullet points.
Matt Edmundson: You mean fasting's an interesting one, isn't it?
Yeah, it's a really Peters has put in the comments, oh, sorry.
Missed the talk.
We'll have to catch up later.
. We're just about to do, we're just about to do conversation
straight now, Peter you'll be fine.
Yeah, we're gonna get into it.
So the talk is about fasting and how, and again, remember the plan here is we're
talking about fasting in the context.
of biblical wholeness.
Yeah, and so we're talking about how to be biblical whole, we're talking
about spiritual health, what it means to be a spiritually healthy person.
And that spiritual health is that, fasting is connected to that health, right?
And you're still a bit blue.
I'm just gonna, I'm gonna come back a little bit and see if
I can get on the same plane.
There we go.
Dan Orange: Now we're both out of focus.
Matt Edmundson: Hands up, over your eyes.
There you go.
There we go.
See if that works.
Sorry about the blurry camera, ladies and gentlemen.
Obviously, the lens is not wanting to focus.
Just lean forward and see if it brings you.
Keep going.
It's a weird one.
Why is that doing that?
I really don't know.
Sorry about
Dan Orange: that, ladies and gentlemen.
We thought today was going to be great with our new funky mic stands.
And then the camera that's been there for weeks and weeks, it's just not happy.
Matt Edmundson: Not happy about life.
So yeah, so we're talking about fasting in regard to wholeness.
So we wanted to talk about this as a spiritual discipline
towards spiritual health.
So that's the context in which we're talking about this and the context
in which Dave is talking about this.
is actually someone who is living a whole life is someone that has in place.
I don't want to use the word protocol, but they are people who fast.
Yeah,
Dan Orange: it's part of something.
Matt Edmundson: It's part of their lifestyle.
Yeah, it's part of their lifestyle.
And Dave, I know he would never say this, but I know Dave fast.
I know a bunch of people who fast.
And so it's interesting how this, I think the title of this talk, how this
ancient principle brings back life given principles or something like that.
I should probably look at what the title of the talk is.
But it's really interesting how fasting helps us do that.
Yeah.
And it's one of those things where I think if you were to sit down and go let's talk
about wholeness, ladies and gentlemen.
What's going to make you whole?
Fasting.
It's
Dan Orange: not
something that just jumps to mind, is it?
Matt Edmundson: No.
Fasting makes my belly empty.
It does not make me full.
It does not make me whole.
And it's And I think this is the thing that Dave was getting across.
Jesus was a man who fasted.
He expected his followers to fast.
There is something quite sacred and something quite divine about this concept,
this idea, this principle of fasting.
Now, Nicola's put in the in the comments there.
Oh, Dan's out of focus.
She can't fast food because of meds, right?
And that I get that, you have to be sensible.
Yeah, absolutely.
With this whole thing.
I don't think if you fast, you become happy.
There's a story in the Bible, isn't there?
About how Jesus is like, we these guys Sadducees.
That's right.
Yeah.
But they would fast and they would pray and they would make big public sort
of spectacles of what they were doing to come across and appear as holy.
And Jesus is like, nah mate, you've had your reward.
Yeah,
Dan Orange: yeah, because Dave mentioned that, didn't he?
It's not about, it's not some religious thing, you do it so many
times a year, you get closer to God, something you can tick off.
When we die, it's okay, I did those things.
That's not how it works.
No, that's not how it works.
Like Nicholas said if you can't fast food, it's not That's not a problem, because
it's about the concentrating on God.
It's about giving up something.
If it's something if it's probably a really good one for a lot of people
would be social media or your phone.
Every time you go to pick up your phone, if you're fascinated, you go, Oh, that's
a good time to remember why I'm on these.
Yeah.
And it does bring that back to you, doesn't it?
Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: It is a great tool for that.
Yeah.
To And I think there are many reasons in scripture why it talks about
fasting and why fasting is a tool in this whole biblical wholeness thing.
There's no doubt about it, right?
And we can get into some of those if you like, but I think
there's a whole I'm sounding very knowledgeable, Matt Edmundson.
Yes, I am, Matt.
So it's one of those where you your primary focus with fasting, I think
is when you're hungry, when you're going without something, it's, have
you ever been so hungry, it's painful?
Yeah, Jeremy, you get I'm just really in pain here.
My stomach is good.
It's normally on a Sunday afternoon for me.
I need food.
But to actually actively go without, it's not because you're wanting to
cause yourself discomfort or pain.
But it's to remind yourself of your dependence on God.
Yeah,
Dan Orange: it's not.
The first thing I wrote down, and I think it's the first quote
Dave said was, Jesus fasted.
Yeah.
And he was hungry.
It wasn't some magical thing.
Yeah, that even when Jesus fasted, he's hungry.
I think God definitely helps you with a fast, and he can help you with that
hunger, and he definitely, if he's told you to do a longer fast, and if
he's told you to do it, not that you're just wanting to get closer to God or
something by doing it, if he's told you to do a longer fast, then he definitely
helps with that strength, but, Jesus was hungry, and I think it's that hunger
that helps us to get closer to God.
Concentrate and focus.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it's a really important point, isn't it?
Yeah.
It's not
Dan Orange: magical, it's not.
You don't do it to, so God can take these desires away from you.
Hunger is a real thing, we're just directing that hunger to
Matt Edmundson: Him.
Yeah, you're reminding yourself who you're hungering after.
Yeah.
Because Jesus said in that set, when he fasted for 40 days,
you talk about a fast, 40 days.
So yeah, so when Jesus was talking about this, he said, man shall not
live by bread alone, but by every word that comes out of the mouth of God.
And I think when you tie that principle in with scripture, with fasting, you're
like, yeah, I don't, as people, we don't live just on bread alone or on food alone.
We have got to be people of God.
People of God's Word.
We've got to live on that.
We've got to be people of prayer, which Dave talked about next week,
actually, sneak preview, and is gonna be talking about the spirit, the
scripture side of things as well.
So we know that's coming up.
But yeah, shall not live by bread alone.
So it increases your hunger and your dependency on God, which
is an important thing, I think.
Yeah,
Dan Orange: it said, he said, we're giving up something good.
So food is good for us.
Yeah, to get something greater.
Yeah, it's a great quote.
I like that.
Yeah.
It is a great quote.
Yeah.
It's not just, it's not just weight loss
In fact, if you look at the medical things, it's not, a lot of the
time it's not in weight loss.
'cause your body goes into if you stop eating for a few days, your body
stops doing stuff and conserve that.
Yeah.
So it's not actually even the best way to lose weight.
Strangely, is it not?
No, I think if you do it for, a longer time it is, but yeah, a few days,
Matt Edmundson: it's not, to be fair, I don't know how well
qualified we are to talk about weight
Dan Orange: loss.
Matt Edmundson: Just calorie deficit.
So you need to know.
There you go.
Secret answered.
But yeah, no, I think that's the primary thing, isn't it, is actually,
we are putting ourselves in a place where we remember who God is, and
who we are in relation to him, and that everything comes from him.
And that includes the bread we eat.
And that includes a spiritual nourishment, that whole wholeness
thing, which we've been talking about.
And fasting is a great way to remind yourself of that.
Now, if you're like Nicola, and you can't fast food, And then like you
say, social media, great thing to fast.
Talk about benefits to your mental health being quite extraordinary.
Definitely fast, social media.
And I think that's quite crucial, really.
Is this still blurry?
Sorry, folks.
Dan Orange: It's just
Matt Edmundson: your hands.
Perfect.
In my hands crystal clear.
Dan Orange: I don't know if it thinks these mics our faces,
blurred them into our beards.
Do you think that's what it is?
Go over the top of them.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, sorry, folks, I'm gonna have to try and figure out why this
camera's messing me around a little bit.
It's just very peculiar.
Let's just lean forward and see what happens.
So yeah didn't the guy who played Thor on the documentary, do a
documentary on fasting on Disney?
Yeah.
Now, this is interesting, because Chris Hemsworth, I don't
know if you came across that.
The Chris Hemsworth documentary that he did I wish someone will put
in the comments what the name of that documentary, but he basically
did a series of feats, didn't he?
Like he swam in cold water.
He did crazy heights thing to overcome his fear of heights and fasting thing.
And he did all kinds of things.
But yeah it's an interesting one.
It's and.
Dan Orange: Bamsham says, I want fast TV, but yeah, it is hard.
And that, that is the reason for it.
And it's not something with fasting, and I'm not speaking as an
expert at all, but just build up.
It may be that, I don't know, you get up when you watch breakfast TV, and one day
just decide I'm not going to watch it.
Breakfast TV.
I'm involved.
I'm just gonna go check on the camera.
I'm just gonna do something else in that time.
So yeah, and with fasting food as well.
It may be that it is just to give up a meal.
And in that meal, that's the time that you've focused.
Someone put about a bridegroom fast, which is a some people in The church we go to,
often used to do that, which is fasting for one evening to the next evening.
So you still have meals on both those days.
But again it's a discipline.
Matt Edmundson: It is and they call it the blight, the bridegroom
fast because oh, there we go.
I think we're back in focus now.
Yeah.
And they call it the bridegroom fast because it is definitely a folk that the
reason they call it the bridegroom fast is because Jesus refers to himself as
the bridegroom who's coming back again.
And so it's that kind of fast.
Yeah.
Peter says that's a better picture.
Awesome.
Sorry
Dan Orange: about that.
Yeah, that was much better.
Look at that.
HD
Matt Edmundson: and everything.
Starting to see myself.
So it's much better when I'm blurred, probably.
But yeah, the bridegroom fast is all about.
I'm, when I'm fasting, I'm thinking about and praying for
the return of Christ, right?
That's the thing that I'm longing for the screen improvement, Matt Edmundson
has offered, yeah, thanks for that.
Ha!
So yeah, I think, there's, there are a lot of different fasts.
Isaiah 58, have you ever read this?
When it comes to fasting, this is a wonderful piece of scripture.
Let me read this to you, I've got to put my glasses on.
Let me pull up the Bible verse here.
Isaiah 58 says this is God talking, he said, Is this the kind of fast?
that I have chosen.
Let me back up.
Where are we?
So why have we fasted?
They say in verse three, and you have not seen it.
We have humbled ourselves, and you have not noticed.
So people talking to God.
Yeah, on that day of your fasting, you do as you please.
So this is God talking back.
It's really interesting.
And you exploit all your workers.
Okay.
Yeah.
So if you, if you employ people just bear in mind, you can't fast and
exploit your workers at the same time.
In other words, don't be hypocritical, right?
So if you're fasting and you're still doing stupid stuff over here,
fast, you're just going hungry.
I just want to point that out.
I think this is what God's saying.
So you do yours, you please, you exploit your workers, your fasting
ends in quarreling and strife.
and in striking each other with wicked fists.
You cannot fast as you do today and expect your voice to be heard on high.
And again, this is really interesting because if you're fasting, what's
the one thing you are hungry?
Yeah.
What happens when you're hungry?
You get hangry.
What happens when you get hangry?
You start arguing and God's I'm not interested.
So this is really fascinating to me.
Is this the kind of fast that I have chosen?
This is what God says only a day for people to humble themselves.
Is it only for bowing one's head like a reed or lying in sackcloth?
And I said, we won't get into this, but in verse six, it says, is this not
the kind of fasting that I have chosen?
So this is what God says.
To loose the chains of injustice, to untie the cords of the yoke or to break
it free, to set the oppressed free.
and to break every yoke.
Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor
wanderer with shelter when you see the naked to clothe them and not to turn
away from your own flesh and blood.
Then your light will break forth like the dawn and your healing will appear quickly
and your righteousness will go before you.
And the glory of the Lord will be your reward.
You will call, the Lord will answer, you will cry for help, and he'll go, I'm here.
So it's really interesting.
Hey Sarah's in the comments.
Hope you've managed to get some sleep.
I was talking to Sarah last week, bless her.
Struggling with the old sleep thing with a newborn.
Oh, yeah.
So yeah, fasting, it's interesting how God's is this not the fast
that I've chosen to break?
to deal with injustice to break oppression.
So you can give your food that you were going to eat to the hungry.
Yeah, it's a really interesting isn't it and Dave mentioned that in his talk a
little bit because that's one thing that I if I fast or when I fast and I'm talking
to me more than anybody here when I fast rarely do I go right I'm gonna go grab
that meal that was gonna have and I'm gonna go feed the hungry with it which
is just It's fascinating when you look at this and, oh bless you Sarah, zero sleep.
Dan Orange: In the talk I did last week on prayer, I've been reading
about a guy called Rhys Howells, which I mentioned, called the intercessor.
And he, his whole calling from God was prayer and a lot of that was fasting.
But he actually.
only had, I can't remember now, but it was like, he used to have four
meals a day because he was a miner.
So he'd be working down the pit, and then preaching in the evening, every evening.
And God said to him no, your money is my money.
And this is I want you just to go on two meals a day.
He was never any weaker.
God gave him the strength.
But it was for that.
It was that prayer.
And so that money could go to someone else, which is, yeah, interesting, isn't
Matt Edmundson: it?
Very.
No, it is.
And I think this is the challenge because fasting is not just about me going without
something, although that's part of it.
But it's like taking what I would have had and helping somebody else with that.
For example, The food one is easy, right?
If I fast food, I can give that meal toward the hungry, right?
If I fast social media, it's not like I can give that to somebody
else, but I can give that time.
Yeah.
And so I can go go I spend typically whatever, I don't know
what you spend on social media.
But let's say it's half an hour.
And for all of you going, I don't spend that long on social media.
Just put a little timer on your phone.
You'll be surprised.
But it's like.
Okay, I'm going to fast social media and then I'm going to give that 30 minutes
to somebody who needs that time, right?
And especially if that's time towards somebody who is bound
and oppressed in some way, right?
And so what you're doing when you're fasting is you're not only focusing
on God to look at your source and your supply, you're listening to God to
go, God, where do you want me to give?
What I would normally be doing in this time, or with this resource,
where do you want me to give that?
Now if as Christians, quite rightly, as Christians, we go, I'm going to fast food,
I'm going to fast social media to pray.
I do question if I'm being totally honest, how many of us do
actually pray during that time?
And what that prayer is actually like.
Because fasting is enough, do you know what I mean, it's God,
I've gone without this, whatever.
And so surely that's enough and I'll do a little bit of prayer, but it's,
maybe a little bit half hearted.
I don't mean to get in anyone's case, I'm talking to me more than
anybody but actually taking fasting that one stage further and going,
God, where can I give, where can I sow what I have abstained from?
I think that is the kind of fast we see in Isaiah, and this is where,
again, just to bring it back to this whole topic of wholeness.
Being whole people, when you understand that you are a whole person, you
have no issue taking what you've been given and giving it to somebody else.
Whether that's time, talent, treasure, whatever it is, and so yeah, this
is for me where I, I think it's just such a critical conversation.
Do you know what I mean, that actually fasting I think is more
than just going without food.
But it is in itself an act of generosity, it's an act of stewardship, it's
an act of serving, it's an act of giving, don't know, what do you think?
Yeah, no,
Dan Orange: I think you're right.
And I've got a question.
Do you think it is?
So yeah, I agree with you.
Matt Edmundson: You don't have to, by the way, there's no way
in the box, but I do agree.
Dan Orange: But can we then, we have to be careful that we don't then
turn that fasting which is meant between you and God and to something
that is a bit of a, hey, look at me.
Yes.
I'm not talking about this, but look what I'm, look what I'm doing.
And it just takes that focus that was meant to be for God has gone pear shaped.
It's gone off askew, hasn't it?
Because
Matt Edmundson: we've tried to
Dan Orange: make something out of it when it was meant to be just between us.
Like you talked about the Sadducees.
Yeah.
They were like, yeah, look at me.
I'm fasting.
I know people have done long fasts and They felt that it should
just be between them and God.
So they still continued with their, with their jobs and stuff.
Knowing that it had to be, yeah, between them and God and
not their work is going on.
What's going on with you?
What, it's what God's
Matt Edmundson: doing in you.
Yeah, I think it very much is.
And there's that wonderful Again, going back to when Jesus
fasted 40 days and 40 nights.
You talk about a heck of a fast.
And if you're going to do that kind of fast, you've really got
to make sure God's in it, I think.
Yes.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
It's not something I'd just do off a whim.
But the scripture talks about this.
When he came out, when he returned from the wilderness, when he returned from the
desert, he returned in the power of God.
And there was something in that fast where He is in spiritual warfare,
he encounters the devil, there's the big temptations of Christ.
There's victory in those.
And he returns that in the power of the Spirit, isn't he?
And he does all of this happens after he gets baptized.
But it's it's really interesting how there needed to be this period
of fasting for Christ to deal with the temptation in the desert.
And then to It's not like fasting made him powerful.
I don't want to be careful what I say.
But I think somehow that fasting put him in a place where he could
hear God and be more dependent on God when the testing came.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, and that in itself is more powerful.
Yeah, and this is what we're talking about.
When you fast, when you go without, and you start to recognize who your provider
is, I think more in that situation.
So What's Andy put here?
Don't some guys fast by eating only bland foods?
I know, I
Dan Orange: mean, like the Daniel fast is a just a vegetables fast.
And that's not just being vegan, because vegan, you can have
some, fancy food very tasty.
So it was more about just, yeah, just having those, the vegetables,
again, something that gives you the sustenance you need, but might not be
The exciting thing that you're after.
Yeah.
And my mate did Daniel Fast and you do have to make sure that your family perhaps
just take a bit of time away because it can affect your digestive system.
Matt Edmundson: Open the windows is what he's saying.
It can affect your innards a little bit.
It's really funny.
Yeah.
They do bear that in mind.
But yes, I think some guys fast by only eating bland foods.
But again, you've got to go What is it that I'm doing here?
And why am I doing?
Why is God leading me in this fast?
Again, something Dave touched on, what's the purpose of the fast?
Yeah, you're having a really clear purpose for your fast.
Otherwise, you're just going hungry.
And God, what is it you're trying to say to me here?
Is there something I need to press into you on?
Like Jesus in the desert?
Is there something that I need to give like in Isaiah 58?
What is it you're wanting from me here?
With this fast and is it what kind of fast is it, we're just
in a season of Lent, aren't we?
And so quite popular is people give things up for Lent.
I've given up broccoli, mushrooms.
I'm doing super well.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Fasting.
How many Lents
Matt Edmundson: have you done that for Matt?
I've just, I'm on my 50th consecutive Lent.
So yeah it's one of those where and I like the practice of Lent.
And I think that's a good spiritual discipline.
Because again, it's I'm giving things up to remember who my provider is.
Yeah.
And I think there's good practice in that.
And I think, I jest when I say I give up mushrooms, I really don't like mushrooms.
Mushrooms are evil.
They're just, I shouldn't say that they're not evil, because
they're obviously a gift from God.
But in my mind, they are rank, let me tell you.
And so for me to say I'm fasting mushrooms, it's not really
cost me a whole great deal.
So yeah, I think, what is it God you're wanting here?
Yeah, in this fast.
And I think it's such a tool that actually.
When we get it right, when we nail fasting, and it's not like
I'm trying to twist God's arm.
I'm not trying to get him to answer my prayer.
It's like my prayer has not been answered.
Maybe if I fast, I'll earn favour in it for God to answer my prayer.
It's not it at all.
I don't think that's a Christian gospel in any way, stretch or forth.
Fasting puts me in a position where I hear from God.
Yeah, is what tends to happen.
Yeah.
And it puts me in a position where I end up being more generous.
We're going to get into this whole generosity thing soon.
Trust me, that's going to blow your mind a little bit.
But it puts me in a position to hear God, it puts me in a position to be generous.
And in those positions, God can break through in me and he can, there might be
things that I've been going through that I've been struggling with, that actually
for a period of fasting I come out of it.
Like I've won something.
Does that make sense?
Let's say you're dealing with something that is a continual
repetitious habit, right?
This is a good example.
So people come to me all the time.
I'm struggling with this dot.
And it's a repetitious habit, something that goes on.
And we've tried to, I've tried to stop doing it and doesn't seem to work.
Or I'm not doing this, I'm not doing that.
And what do you think I should do?
One of the first things, medical positioning allowing us to do is to say
let's set aside a period of fasting.
Because I need you to be closer to God.
And I need you to hear him better, and I need you to understand
what he's saying to you better.
And by putting yourself in a position where you don't, where you
voluntarily give up stuff which you like, reminds you constantly to stay
close to God and you can hear him.
And I think when you do that.
And if it's food, you might do it for a few days, you might do it for a week, if
you're doing it longer, again, say, can't say enough, seek medical attention, listen
to the Holy Spirit, if it's something like TV, someone mentioned earlier on
about giving up TV, fasting TV, whatever it is, and you're setting that side and
time aside for God, my experience is when I've done that in the past, like Jesus,
I feel like I've come out in the power of the Holy Spirit, like something has been
broken, like I have Manage to get through that trial, that temptation, and it's not
because I'm using fasting to twist God's arm, it's more that God's using fasting
for me to understand what's going on.
Yeah.
Does that make sense?
Yeah it does,
Dan Orange: yeah.
Hopefully I've explained that well enough.
And I think, I've been thinking, so In this series, part of it will
be way I think it might be June.
We're talking about fruits of spirit.
And one of them is far away.
Oh, is it not?
No.
One of them is self control.
And that's what I've been asked to talk on.
So I keep thinking about that.
Maybe that one is
Matt Edmundson: because that's like right at the end of the list.
It's like God said, you want the fruits of the spirit of these?
Yes.
The last one self control.
Oh, I know.
Dan Orange: I keep thinking, That's a strange view of the spirit,
what we're going to talk on.
But fasting, what we're talking about, fasting is part of it, isn't it?
And if you are struggling or with any type of fasting, then it's
worth, he's given us that spirit, that that fruit of self control.
Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, and actually, I think it's probably the fruit of
the Spirit that's lacking the most in Christian life, especially in the West,
we have no self control whatsoever.
And I feel like the Holy Spirit is bringing that back.
So I think it's probably one of the best talks in the series, because it's
it's just one of those, which is, it's gonna blow you, we're not talking about
willpower, it's not that kind of thing.
This is actually the Holy Spirit helping you to be self controlled.
And I was reading when Dave was talking, I read this scripture here, which said,
1 Corinthians 9 Paul says this, verse 26, I do not run aimlessly, so he's
talking about running a race, and running a race in such a way as to win it, so
I shouldn't peer over my glasses down the lens, it's very rude so he's I'm
running this race and I want to win it I do not run aimlessly, I do not box as
one beating the air, but I discipline my body and keep it under control.
Less after preaching to others, I myself should be disqualified.
And it's interesting when I read that, because that ties into that whole
Isaiah 58 thing, it's like you've done this, but you've disqualified
it because you're in strife.
You're doing all these things that you shouldn't be doing whilst you're
fasting and Paul's no, I have to have that level of discipline.
Which is what I think self control comes down to and he's disciplined,
he's disciplining his body.
Fasting is one of the tools where we can go, I need to get straight.
I need to get some discipline going in my life.
Tie that in a few months time with the talk on the Fruit of the Spirits
where you talk about self control.
You got some powerful stuff going on.
You talk about radical change that can happen to you in your life.
God breaking in and doing some crazy stuff.
Just with understanding the fruit of the spirit of self-control
and understanding fasting.
It's exciting stuff.
It sounds weird.
It does, isn't it?
Dan Orange: It is.
Like you say, it's one of those things you just, you get to the end of the list
and it's just oh yeah, that's pretty good.
Yeah.
But not as a gift.
Not as a, yeah.
Yeah.
Not something that you can actually Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: Obtain.
Yeah.
I love the fact you don't, that's what it says in the comments, I
love the fact that you don't need to be super spiritual to fast.
And you can that's exactly true.
That's so true.
It's not like you need to have a qualification to do this, right?
Yeah.
And that's the beauty of it.
Actually, this is open to everybody.
And I think I guess my encouragement with Dave's talk with this whole
series, is to see fasting as something which is so awesome, and so cool.
And so it's such a privilege.
And actually rightly discerning what happens when we fast can break the
chains of oppression, not just for others, but for ourselves, right?
We can go into the wilderness like Jesus.
We can face the temptations.
We can come out in the power of the Holy Spirit and we can give to the poor.
We can get closer to God.
We can hear what's going on and we can see some radical change in our lives.
And I, that's the thing here for me in fasting.
That's the, that's not how we see it.
But that would be my, this is how we, this is I think how the Bible talks
about it and I'm rightly discerning it.
It's such a powerful thing when it comes to biblical holiness.
I hope you're feeling excited.
I hope you get the excitement behind fasting and it's just yeah, don't,
it's not I'm going to go and fast all next week, man, because this
was such a great, sermon from Dave and a great conversation street.
That's not what I'm saying.
You've got to, let God guide you.
Yeah,
Dan Orange: yeah, exactly.
And Peter's put there.
Yeah, definitely.
Let God guide you.
It's not something just to go, okay, I'm going to do this for a week.
Now I'm going to do three days or even 24 hours.
It's a big, it's a big thing.
Let God just, yeah.
Yeah, build up to it.
But don't, and it's not a challenge either.
And I think when it gets to a challenge say if you feel you should be, I
don't know, fasting for three days or something, and you get to two days and
then you're like, yeah, 24 hours to go.
I think perhaps your motivation has changed and it might
be better to go to God.
I'm gonna stop now.
Yeah, because my motivation isn't what it should be for that fast.
Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, that's important.
I love that comment there.
I think it's something we need to build up to.
You can't imagine fasting for days.
No, me either, to be fair.
And I'm not telling you to go out and fast for days.
But what I guess, one I get one thing you can do from a practical point of view is
you can say there is something in my life that I wanted, I want God to deal with,
because And we're talking about wholeness.
So if wholeness is here, and I feel like I'm here, what's in the middle?
What's the obstacle?
What's something in the way?
It could be addiction.
It could be a feeling of, low self esteem.
It could be whatever, whatever state of life you're in, there
could be a whole bunch of things.
It could be sickness.
Whatever is causing you not to feel that sense of wholeness.
Because I think God wants us whole.
I said this in the first talk.
It's not something that we create, it's something we receive, right?
And so what's stopping us receiving that, whatever that issue is, I think
if you this week go before God and say, God, tightly, honestly mixing with what
you said about prayer last week, just being tightly, blatantly honest before
God and going this is what I want to deal with I'm going to pray about this.
And I feel like fasting would be a good thing here.
What do you want me to fast?
How long do you want me to fast?
Is there anything in this fast that I need to do?
Do I need to give time, money, energy, food, etc.?
And give me some guidance on this.
And then say I want to do this for the next 40 days.
Now, I'm not saying you'd go without food for the next 40 days, right?
But, you're going to pray about this for the next 40 days.
And it may be God says to you, I want you to fast one day a week.
Or I want you to fast one meal a day for the next 40 days, or I
want you to fast TV for the next 40 days, or whatever it is, right?
And just do, God, what is it you want me to do?
And see what the Holy Spirit says to you.
And I am fairly sure we'll have some amazing stories.
In fact, yeah, Peter's put that in the comments.
Perhaps next week we can report on fasting, if we have tried
it, and what we've got from it.
We would love to hear your stories on this.
Yeah.
We genuinely would love to hear your stories on it.
Because I think it's such a powerful thing.
And it just breaks that yoke.
It breaks that in us.
And I think go for it.
Yeah, go for it, folks.
And you know what,
Dan Orange: It may be at the week, say God said to fast at lunchtime or something.
You get to the week, and you think all I got from that was hungry.
But I don't think I don't think you do.
I think you It's an act of giving as well, isn't it?
It's I fell from God, I shouldn't eat this lunch.
All that happened, I was hungry.
But I did it because I felt, yeah, I should do it.
And God asked me to.
And so just being obedient.
Yes.
And
Matt Edmundson: sometimes it's, that's being obedient.
Yeah.
Obedience is better than sacrifice.
Yeah.
And so just going and doing that.
Yeah.
But again, supercharge it.
If God tells you to fast lunch, take your lunch and give it to somebody else.
Just give it to someone in work, give it to someone who's
whatever, someone who's homeless.
I think
Dan Orange: I think I've done that before.
In the past, I've gone, I was meant to fast today, and I've got my lunch with me.
I'll better eat it.
Perhaps I should have given it
Matt Edmundson: away.
Yeah, I think I you know it's just being a bit creative with it and
just letting God do his thing and not getting so tied up with a formula.
And just put there, it's a contrast in a world of insight.
Absolutely.
You've hit the nail on the head there, bro.
Because I think that's right, isn't it?
It's yeah, We live in a world which says, I deserve everything
that I get and I want it all.
And I want it all now, and I want it all instantly and I should have it.
And God's going, you could probably do that.
Yeah.
But if you want to be whole, just learn to fast and you're like,
God, I don't get your logic.
I think I do.
I actually a little bit with this.
But it's I just love the simplicity of the gospel.
I love the simplicity of God.
It's yes, it's not about what you've got, guys.
It doesn't depend entirely on this with
Dan Orange: you.
I love, there's a quote going around from Jim Carrey.
Have you heard it?
That he says, everyone, he said, I wish everyone could have anything
they, to have fame, have everything they ever needed to realize.
It's not the answer.
Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: So true.
Yeah.
So true.
I'm going to fast rubbish TV.
I, that's a good thing.
I don't know whether rubbish TV is one of the strongholds in your life.
Do you know what I mean?
It's one of those kind of things.
But yeah, totally.
Whatever God's saying, that would be my, my, my challenge to us all this week.
What is God saying to you?
And if you're listening on catch up, And you're listening to this in a week's
time, don't think I'll go away with it.
Just be genuine before God and just go, God, what can we do here?
And just enjoy the journey.
Because I like I say, there's some amazing stuff in there.
So yeah, hopefully you've got something out of this tonight.
Yeah, because I'm excited by the topic of fasting.
And I think just talking about it, just thinking about it.
I'm probably I'm like, yeah, I'm more excited now.
Yes.
Yeah,
Dan Orange: absolutely.
Yes.
Yeah.
Whereas before
Matt Edmundson: I'm always like, You just have these little pep talks,
you just read the scriptures about it and find out what it's really saying.
Okay, cool.
Yeah.
Okay.
Dan Orange: Come on.
I think we better draw this to a close.
I'm going to draw it to a close.
I don't know why I said that, I never say that in real life.
Matt Edmundson: I'm going to draw it to a close.
Do you want to tell folks what's
Dan Orange: happening next?
Yeah, so next week Anna is going to talk about the Word of God, which is
definitely the answer to getting us whole.
Ah, yeah.
We couldn't have done any of the other talks without Hearing from God, obviously,
we can hear sometimes God's direct word, or he directs us in thoughts, but
man, the Word of God's written there, black and white, isn't it for us?
Yeah, it is.
Looking forward to that.
Yeah.
And
Matt Edmundson: Anna's just a legend.
Yeah.
She's a great speaker.
And looking forward to that.
Who's hosting?
Are you hosting?
Am I hosting?
I'm not hosting.
Oh, it's going to be me then, isn't it?
Have a look.
Let's have a look who's hosting.
Peter says he's got to go.
Great to be with you, Peter.
Thanks for joining us.
Yeah, thanks for joining us.
Yeah, absolute legend.
Oh, it's me and Jan Birch.
Awesome.
So you know that's going to be funny.
Jan's an absolute legend.
But yeah, so join us next week as we talk about scripture.
Yeah, because you've not got the stream deck.
If you just push that little globe thing on the stream deck.
There you go.
Dan Orange: What's this?
Hey, look at that.
That's how you can contact us.
Contact us at Crowd Church.
Did
Matt Edmundson: you just say contacted us?
Contact us.
Oh, contact.
Sorry, it sounded like contacted us.
And
Dan Orange: that's how you, that's how you can contact us.
www.
crowd.
church.
And there's WhatsApp as well.
So if you go on the website, you can find the WhatsApp and just
message us if you've got any, if you've got anything that you want.
If you'd like someone to pray for you, if you've got a situation that's
going on, please just, yeah, contact
Matt Edmundson: us.
We'd love to pray.
We would, and just being totally transparent, we've had a bunch of
people contact us this week about prayer, with prayer requests, praying
for people's marriages, praying for jobs, praying for financial provision.
All kinds of stuff.
So if you've got anything you'd like us to pray about, do let us know.
We would love to pray for you.
Any midweek stuff?
Yes, we have.
If you would like to join us midweek for our Zoom call, our Zoom community
calls, it'd be great to see you in there.
We have community meetings.
You can find all the information on the website, www.
crowd.
church.
It is all there.
And the one thing I meant to say earlier that I completely forgot,
you didn't remind me, Online Alpha.
Oh, yes.
Online Alpha, Matt.
Online Alpha.
So we've had a few folks reach out to us and ask if we can
do an Online Alpha course.
Because they want to do it.
And so we're like, sure, why not?
So if you or you anybody, would like to join us for an online alpha, we're
going to be starting one real, real soon.
So it's going to be in the evenings, UK evening time, we've not really
set which day it's going to be yet.
But if you would like to be involved in that, we would love to hear from you.
Just reach out to us on the website, www.
crowd.
church, or www.
crowd.
church, or you can find us on Instagram or Facebook at Crowd Church.
Just message us that you'd be interested in doing the online
alpha and we will be in touch.
Really excited about that story and probably in the next week or so.
So keep your eyes peeled for that.
We'll let you know more.
Dan Orange: And I thought I'd just say, so a few weeks ago I was with Ruth
and I was saying yeah, We were talking about, I can't remember what we were
talking about God and prayer requests, and I was saying, yeah, I've got stuff
going on in my life, and God's really provided because it was I'm self employed,
it's my own business When someone doesn't employ me, I don't get paid.
So I'm starting a massive job tomorrow.
Yeah.
And that's a great answer.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.
So prayer works.
You can press the globe thing on the thing, it will take
the thing off the screen.
There you go.
Hey, there we go.
Brilliant.
It's just weird sitting in this chair.
I'm not gonna lie.
I don't know how well I did.
I'm really rubbish being a
Dan Orange: guest.
We'll see you all next week.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Thank you very much.
Bye.
Matt Edmundson: Thank you so much for joining us here on Crowd Church.
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It has been awesome to connect with you and you are awesome.
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That's it from us.
God bless you.
Bye for now.