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Welcome to the Atlanta Tennis Podcast.

Every episode is titled,

It Starts with Tennis and Goes From There.

We talk with coaches, club managers,

industry business professionals,

technology experts, and anyone else we find interesting.

We wanna have a conversation as long as it starts with tennis.

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Hey, hey, this is Shaun with the Atlanta Tennis Podcast,

powered by GoTennis.

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where 100% of Coach Wink merchandise proceeds

is donated directly to help Atlanta kids

get to experience the US Open in New York.

And now let's get into our recent conversation

with Scott Hutchinson from the Greater Atlanta Christian School

Tennis Academy and the GACS Online School Ethos.

If you're considering online schools,

Ethos is one of the best.

And they're offering 10% off your first year's tuition

through GoTennis.

Have a listen and let us know what you think.

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Who is Scott Hutchinson and why do we care?

Well, I love a lot of people care,

but a big part of my role is people connector,

connected them with the game of tennis.

Hopefully they're creating a passion and a love for it.

And hopefully those that come in contact myself

or those that are on the staff, it's meaningful.

I think back to when I came to Atlanta in 2004,

I'll never be more grateful to you, Sean,

for taking me in and let me stay with you for a couple of weeks.

And that kind of stuff resonates,

is how people treat you, how people take you in.

And that's really the basis.

Yes, we all can teach foreands and back-ends

and group rules and all that kind of stuff.

And sure, the title might say,

"Direct or a tennis," with the end of the day,

connecting junior years of adults,

connecting people with tennis.

And that's what I do.

Fortunately to be in an organization in like GAC,

in the Atlanta market, greater Atlanta Christian.

Sean, you know you're a graduate of there.

So, I think--

- You know, they've really changed a lot.

And what's very fortunate to be there,

and what, you know, basically a nutshell,

that's kind of my role.

And is that outside of director,

is that including director of tennis,

or is there a new director of tennis there?

Tell me about the academy.

- No, no, no, no, yeah.

So, look, yeah, my title, you know,

my role is run the entire tennis academy.

Started it from its inception in 2017.

We got a staff of 10.

And it's the full gamut.

We everything from, you know, four, five years old,

all the way to, I think our oldest player is probably

in his 70s, right, roughly right in there.

Participating all the leagues.

We're over 30 league teams right now

with L2NUSTA, juniors and adults.

Our niche though, and as you guys know,

I mean, Atlanta, there's an academy.

There's a court to play on.

There's facilities everywhere.

Our niche is kids come out of class

during the school day to take their lessons.

So what does that look like?

I'll use my daughter's example.

She's six, she's in K-5.

She'll come out of her PE class,

walk over to the indoor courts,

which are in the Bradford Center.

So Sean, back, when you were there,

the Bradford Center was a gym.

And now it's two indoor tennis courts.

And so you walk right over from the lower school,

you take your lesson.

Our entire staff is either USPTA or USPTR certified,

at various levels.

And once the lesson's done, they walk back with their coach,

back to class, and they continue on with the day.

So that's probably the unique part of our setup.

We have the before school, the during school,

and then after school drills,

depending on where you are level wise.

If you're a high performance player,

you're going to train the morning,

you're going to train in the afternoon

while utilizing our hybrid schooling options.

If you're an out-to-lady, you're going to take your drills

8, 30, 10 o'clock somewhere in there,

run after drop off, or if you've got kids driving to school,

you're probably coming a little bit later.

Around that 10 o'clock time, and then everything

coming between.

Our nighttime activity is just as busy.

We've got a bunch of mixed teams, two Sunday-Lays teams.

That's growing.

Three mixed teams right now.

And that's about all we're able to handle.

We're going to set up our courts and two indoor courts,

so 8 total.

That's kind of our bandwidth right now.

Over, see, 500-- that's kind of 520 players in the program.

And you're not to kind of toot the horn,

but we start with zero back in January 2017.

So it's the vision of our former president, which

was Dr. Fincher.

He was probably the president when you were there, Sean.

And also, the current president, Dr. Harsh.

I mean, they had a very much think outside the box.

And that's why there's a tennis academy at GAC.

It allows us to kind of separate ourselves

from the competition, but at the same time,

it allows us to introduce tennis to virtually anyone

in the school.

So regardless, if you want to play high school,

if you just want to play in your out-of-the-team,

or you want to learn the sport, we've

got a spot for anyone.

So it's a very good, it's a good thing.

The education world is changing,

and so for kids to have opportunities to not just play tennis,

but do other things throughout the school.

They is really a blessing more than anything.

And you mentioned Scott Harsh.

I'm going to take credit for all of this,

because I can always make it about me.

But in 2015, I went to Scott Harsh, and I said,

we need more.

You can do more with your tennis programming.

And said, hey, this is where we do.

And we start with those four-year-olds.

And they didn't bite then.

So somehow you actually talked them into it,

and got a chance to add into the future.

And so it's funny because in our conversations,

I mean, we're not a team about it.

It's one of those things.

So as you know, it was at Sugar Loaf,

a country club for 13 years.

Had some great people we worked with, not just yourself,

but Darrell.

We're in the Darrell.

Louis, quite often, at different events.

Then another gentleman, Will See Graves, came along.

Great, I mean, absolutely fantastic bosses.

GEC kind of fell-- I don't want to say it felled in my lap,

but it kind of-- it opened my eyes a little bit,

because I loved it then.

I mean, sure, it was a great place.

Great members.

I'm fortunate to run into a lot of them still today

that are at GAC.

And the idea of running the program in a school setting

was I couldn't find another place that was doing it.

Unless you went to an IMG, or--

and that's really-- you're focused on that tennis.

You're not focused on maybe the school side of it as much.

But I was willing to come take a chance.

I was willing that we're at a kind of stage.

Our son was born.

I did want more opportunities of being around at the time.

Davis.

Now we have two kids.

So that kind of opened that up a little bit.

That I could certainly be more present as a dad,

as a husband, and all that.

And they were somewhat doing it.

What we're doing with tennis were some other aspects of the school.

And their swim program and their music program.

The music program kids played during the day.

Swim was before after school.

And I kind of just started thinking.

I said, well, the one thing that will kind of separate us

is the ability to play league tennis out of here, which

will attract kids to the school, both adults and juniors.

The ability to play during the day.

And regardless of where you want to take tennis,

I think that was the biggest part is how

can we involve the lower school, the middle school,

and the upper school?

And how can we do it effectively?

And we didn't start out with indoors.

I mean, we started-- I mean, they were the six outdoors.

And the other part-- and at the time, I didn't really know this.

But the other part, they were developing

the online school side, which is ethos.

And so that, I think, was probably

was really a big part of it.

And they were-- Scott and Dr. Hartscher was

full at fries.

Like, hey, we've kind of explored this over the last few years.

So try to appreciate you have platinum that seed.

They're nearly not ready for it.

They're not ready for it.

They're not ready for it.

I'm glad it went as where I wanted it to go,

because I've also always wanted to create a school.

And I've always said, when you and I

mode first met Jordan Cox, yeah, yeah, we thought, wait a minute.

I like these kids spent in seven hours a day in school,

spent in 30 minutes a day on average playing tennis.

Why is this not flipped?

And for you to be able to take it there

and find a school like GAC that's

willing to work a little bit outside the box without just saying,

this is how school's been done since the 100 years,

and we got to do it this way.

I love that.

So the neat thing about it is they really

looked at it from in-house.

Yes, it's great that we're--

if a ton of families come through and join,

because of the-- in part because of the tennis program,

they're coming for the faith.

They're coming for the great education.

Those are core principles.

But the ability to give--

really give kids and adults, but really give kids

another avenue to allow them to engage in sport.

And tennis is a sport of a lifetime.

And do every one of our players play at 12 months a year?

No, not at all.

I mean, 70% of our players are playing

during their league season or playing just during their lesson

during the day, which is great, because at some point

down the road, maybe when they become an adult,

they maybe take it more seriously.

I mean, our goal is hopefully everyone

wants to play high school tennis at a bare minimum.

But we know in the spring time, you

may be a baseball player or a track star, wherever it may be.

And--

There's a lot of things to interrupt.

Tennis is having to share.

For some reason, if you're a soccer player,

you only need to be soccer.

And that's your thing.

Or if you're football, you're only football.

And Bobby and I talk about this all the time.

But tennis, it's always like the third or fourth sport.

So we're always sharing with somebody else.

So at some point, it's like, well, I got to take a break

from tennis for a while, because we're

going to play basketball through the winter.

Dang it.

We're just getting somewhere.

So that's-- and it's really good you bring that out,

because that's kind of where we've been able to bridge

the gap, where it's, again, specifically

to those that are in the school.

Yeah, they may be playing basketball,

but they're playing tennis during the day.

Even if it's a half hour, even if it's an hour.

We have a time period called enrichment, for example,

that kids can choose what they want to do.

And a lot of kids choose tennis.

Oh, I've never played before.

Let me go play.

So that's really the great aspect for us.

Now, we have a lot of players outside of the school as well.

They have no affiliation.

They play with us, which is great.

We're an open door.

It's important that kids can also bring their friends

if they want.

No different than you're in your neighborhood.

Your next story wants to play with you.

Let's go.

How did you talk them into that?

Again, Bobby and I are talking about this a lot.

To not have that point of view of being exclusive in members only.

We come from that member's only background of a TPC

struggle of type system.

And Bobby and I struggle talking to HOAs

and talking to clubs and saying, unless you are full

and on a wait list, you cannot be exclusive

or you will ruin your own program.

And you mentioned, you're full and you still have that open door.

It's also run like a club that wants to include those

that are nearby even if they're not members or at the school.

Yeah, so obviously put the business head on the business side

of it.

The more families we can attract to the campus,

that helps admissions.

That helps enrollment from that perspective.

But we really look at it.

Are we able to not just help those inside the gate,

but are we able to expose those players outside the gate?

So we're not-- yes, there is a small yearly fee, $2.25.

If they engage in age drills or anything like that.

If they just want to play on league teams,

they pay the league fee, which is $50.

So there is some little--

Non-member cost.

We don't even call it a member.

It's just-- there's wear and tear in the facility.

There's got to be something there.

It's very beneficial if we see kind of eye to eye on Christianity.

That's part of it.

But we also have all kinds of different

face within the school.

And that's a big change probably when you were there is--

Not how it was.

GSE is very forward thinking of that.

And also very respectful of people's viewpoints.

And they're upbringing.

And that's really changed for the good.

The halls are very diverse from that perspective.

So we try to do the same thing on the tennis side.

Invite all different backgrounds then.

Do we run into-- we run into a little bit of, hey, you're

a school.

What are you doing?

I go, there's a tennis program there.

We run into a little bit of that.

But it's saying to me, say, hey, you're welcome to play.

I mean, everybody's welcome, regardless of the background.

And--

I want to apologize for my genius idea.

Open door.

Yeah.

It looks good.

It looks good.

It's an open door.

And you talk about H.O.A.'s and stuff like that.

And different comes-- I get it.

You're at Sugarloaf, as an example.

I mean, there's a lot that comes with that.

And members should make sense.

And in my H.O.A., if you got five six players,

they can help feel the team that I'm playing.

Let them play.

And if it gets to a point where things are maybe

court's being trashed or something like that,

or I get that.

But a nominal fee is enough to say, hey, put something

into the pot a little bit.

It's not going to break the bank.

I know some-- I mean, H.O.A.'s will say, hey, $500 a season.

I mean, that's a lot.

Make it enough to say, OK, you're putting something

to pop in on so much.

It's going to break the bank more or less.

Something we can say yes to, exactly.

And leaving on that business had, I know Bobby's

got some questions.

Because you and Bobby spoke years ago about courts

when we were trying to figure out, hey, how are you doing

your court management system?

Bobby, what you got for Scott today?

Well, the interesting part, just because of the phenomenal

growth, Scott, what were your incremental improvements

on a yearly basis?

Because when you pitch this idea, everybody gets excited

if you're of the same train of thought.

It's achieving the results and being satisfied

with what we went from zero to 10.

Well, that's how many thousand-time improvement

from what we had.

But 10's still not a real big number.

So what would you say your growth rate was?

Because we've had this conversation with St. Francis.

We've had this conversation with Notre Dame Academy.

The things they want to do.

But when you're talking about a decent amount of money,

people also want to know results.

And they want to see results.

So what were your--

it helps to have an administration that is forward thinking

and receptive to the idea because it's

going to take some time.

So when did you start to see traction

in what you guys were doing?

So I'll say--

I'll answer from two perspectives.

The first one--

we went after the league side first.

We knew that we wanted--

we wanted classmates to play together.

We wanted classmates to invite their friends.

So the very first, in January of '17,

the very first thing set out to do was--

and this was right when the high school season was starting.

So one of the unique things is in state of Georgia.

If you run a developmental program of any kind,

of any sport on your campus and you work with more than four

players, you can't coach this glass team.

You can't coach the varsity teams.

That wasn't necessarily a goal of ours.

But what that means in the test world and the spring

is all the courts are being used.

So we went after the Sunday afternoon league,

USDA to start.

We had a vision of all right.

We were looking to have five teams for Alta come

the fall of 2017.

We ended up with 15.

And I'll never forget this call with Dr. Harsh.

And I said, hey, we don't have lights on the court.

And apparently with Alta, you need lights.

And he goes, OK, that's--

I mean, we had some revenue.

But it wasn't enough to support a court with six lights

and your six courts with lights.

So I said, well, if we don't show--

we don't put these in.

Those 15 teams that we're getting ready to put in--

this was like in July-- the last week of June, early July--

is not going to happen.

And that's going to--

it's going to-- so that was a kind of an inflection

point a little bit in that even though we had--

we didn't have the revenue of 15.

We had all these players excited to play.

And so that was our starting point.

If we can bring league teams first.

And then I also had five tournaments

that were associated with my name.

Meaning when I was at Sugarloaf, we ran five tournaments.

And those kind of followed you.

They didn't say Scott Hutchinson tournaments.

It just-- that was a tournament.

And so the growth calendar of this, we started the elementary.

We started at the bottom, holding beginner clinics,

a couple days a week that we could get courts.

And January through April, we were two hours a day.

Before high school was able to push their practice back

an hour after school.

I was fortunate.

There was one ladies team at an A-lady's level--

A-lady's level team that was looking for a facility

to play out of.

And so that helped.

They right away--

they started drilling with us.

I want to say like the first of February, something like that.

And then after that, I started building beginner classes,

beginner ladies.

With the idea that we can have a group of JC moms

and their friends, plan a league team, that's the goal.

Again, that kind of connecting, that community connecting,

if you want to call it.

Very fortunate.

We talked to earlier about Jordan Cox.

Him and his now White Val helped me in those early days.

Because again, one man show is good.

But a one man show 12 people on the court

is not going to--

is especially Atlanta.

That's not going to help with your growth.

And so very fortunate to them.

They came and helped as much as they could part time.

And then we just started--

it's snowballed from there.

We had-- came into the summertime, eight weeks of camp,

seven of them.

And 20, 24 players, somewhere in there.

The eight to one was at the end of the summer.

And I think I had like five, who was just hot.

And then we just-- we jumped right into the fall.

And having those-- having those out to teams and USDA teams

really was the basis of the growth.

Now, we weren't engaging the elementary as well at that time.

And then we kind of got a business stroke

of luck in that the Bradford and the Pavena leak in the gym.

It was a complete gut job.

And in order for us, again, forward thinking administration,

in order for us to continue to grow,

continue to really support the whole school for all players

to engage in tennis, we needed indoors.

That was in the plans.

When I say in the plans, it was, hey, once we start breaking

even and showing revenue growth, we'll look to build.

Well, I love you guys.

I've ever looked at how much it cost to build some indoor courts,

but millions.

I know Rome, Rome, Tess, that's getting--

I think it's six or eight more indoors.

And if I recall right, it was around 8 million, something like that

that they're going to put into more into their facility.

So it's not cheap.

In our case, if we're able to build more great,

it won't be in that number.

But we had an existing building.

And so we hit it at the right time.

That fall in summer, the indoors opened.

And it was gangbusters from there.

It really was.

We started our daytime lesson program.

We're still working through a staff.

Most of the staff in the early days were part-time.

And again, you're in a school system.

So the commensation and the salary side

that you see in clubs for different levels of your title,

we weren't there yet.

We've gotten there, which is great.

But again, that growth of players playing

through the league system, that was our big thing,

if we want to call it, was really

brought us to where we are today.

So we put in the numbers.

We had two of those three of those 15 had the minimum of eight.

Everybody else had 12 to 15 players on it.

On the junior side, on the lady side,

those first couple of seasons.

And really, probably right up until about the summer of '19.

I mean, we were still four-fitting some matches.

Growth was good, but not everyone was necessarily

gun-hota play league matches.

They wanted to play.

They wanted to learn that particular first ladies team

that-- not the '18, but our beginner C-18.

I think they're up to B-4 now.

And they've stuck together.

I don't know if you remember Sean,

but there was a couple of ladies team to struggle off.

They had the same 12, 15 ladies for years.

And that's kind of what the one ladies team that we have.

They're all friends and kids that are kind of in the same age.

And that was one of the big visions,

is connecting the community within the community.

Then how do you connect outside of the community?

And that's a big part, big pillar within GAC as a whole,

is they want an environment that is connecting people,

whether it's in the classroom outside of the classroom.

You guys may not know this, but I think we have three or four

families, maybe five that are in the actual area of where GAC is,

the Meadow Creek area.

The other 99% come from all over Atlanta.

So being able to connect people and keep people on campus

is a big part of the academy.

I get you full of their Bobby, I answer most of that.

Yeah, another question would be,

obviously, do you have ladies teams playing during school?

We do. We do.

So how does that, I mean, in this crazy world in which we live in,

where stranger danger and there's a man that nobody knows sitting in a car,

is it because you're a private school?

You, I can't see that happening in a public school environment,

just because they're so afraid of who's walking on campus.

Yeah, so obviously there's Gates.

We, there's an officer, there's two, three officers on campus,

but there's full time security.

Everyone that comes through, they got to give their license.

I don't know if it's like a quick background check,

but it's enough to show enough information of who you are.

And if there's any challenges in the back.

But we have a tight security around campus

that when ladies or guys during the school day come to play,

we're going to know who's there.

All the rosters get submitted to our campus security.

So not just our internal rosters, but with the Alts and USDA,

we submit that to them so they know.

And honestly, wasn't that big of a challenge?

It was more, hey, we just need

to know, we need to know who's coming on campus for one.

They're going to have to give a little bit of their background

when they're coming.

Again, when they scan their ID, they'll

go through a quick scan.

And again, if anything comes up, we haven't had that yet.

But they're going to know right there at the gate.

Can this happen in other settings?

It may be a little challenging in the public school setting.

I haven't really looked into it from that perspective.

But I can tell you, maybe bad players come from other schools

or we've had to pick them up for something.

They kind of ask the same questions.

The only difference is you can actually

drive onto the campus of a Peachtree Ridge or North

going out.

You can get to the front door.

But then from that, it's pretty--

I have a reason to be there.

So I think it's pretty tight.

Now, getting to maybe their courts or whatnot,

I think there's definitely an opportunity.

It just would depend on what their security is like.

And we put a big focus on that.

So people, you can't just walk onto campus at 9.30

for a ladies' ultimate.

Now, on the weekends, there's some different opportunities

there.

It's kind of the same process.

There's always security around campus.

Sunday mornings, we don't do anything.

That's as a time for people to go to church and whatnot.

But yeah, it really hasn't been a problem for us.

But I think we hit it on the front end.

Where everyone will come, that's fine.

If you don't want to give that information, then sorry.

Yeah.

Well, that's good.

And I think I'm a fan, trust me, because I

think that's what you need to be successful.

And it goes back to even the--

we always talk about even the public schools,

the different ways that they could come up

as expenses go up.

Fundraising ideas are old and horrendous.

Why don't you take it another level?

You've got four flight attendants courts, open it up.

You don't make it more where people can use it

than other obviously school gets priority.

But you could raise your revenue a little bit.

I think there's also--

I mean, again, you can expose more people to the sport.

You see right now and full of school.

I mean, I don't have a secondary education background

or anything like that in terms of being a school teacher.

My college degree and everything.

But do I know all the inner workings of a school setting?

No, I don't.

I mean, I'm still learning.

Even seven years later, I'm still learning a lot of it.

But we are in Atlanta.

You are the world's largest tennis city.

There's even daytime opportunities.

I mean, players are-- I mean, you've

got people that are taking performance training classes

for a ball-bass ball, baseball, during the school day.

There's no reason why-- honestly, there's

no reason why you couldn't offer that up on the tennis side.

Even if it was--

I get it.

Most high school coaches are a teacher of some capacity.

That's just part of the rules in Georgia.

But there really is no reason why the model can't work.

Whether you're looking at from a revenue sample

or you're looking at from different engagement opportunities

for your students.

I'm thinking Scott, and I agree with Bobby on this one.

Because what's the number of Bobby?

You think the high school courts are used 1% of the available time.

I'm going to just spring only.

And maybe 1% if you're in the summer.

You just don't mind.

During school--

Yeah, they're used--

I'm going to be able to do that.

Yeah, most places are going to be used the third week

of January to the end of March.

That's it?

Have your region tournament.

So you're going to have-- let's say at the latest

into the beginning of May, but most the end of March,

couple weeks in April at best.

And there is an opportunity there.

And the safety thing is probably the biggest thing

for schools.

But on campus, right?

Letting people on campus.

And maybe it's a CIS and AD that just everyone--

hey, you want to play--

I mean, I'll tell you what.

Case-- I don't know, it's Case Whistler on Ultimate Tennis.

The independent leads.

There is a--

And the other part is most schools actually don't have lights.

So that is maybe a challenge at least.

It's a bit independent play.

When you're playing, your independent doubles

or singles leagues.

Absolutely, the schools are a great opportunity

for if they allow it.

Yeah, let's play at 10AM match with four ladies going down there

and being able to have courts.

And it's a great idea.

And you talk about the independent leagues.

It just makes me want to call Joel and T2.

It's there, all right.

Can we get on a campaign and go talk to Gwyneth County

Public Schools or go talk to Cobb County and try to find out

what kind of access we could create.

But Bobby's question is still true.

His first thought is, well, wait a minute.

Aren't you letting non-school related people

onto your campus?

Do we have the big gates that lets you

through with the scans and the security?

Sounds like a lot for an Alta match, doesn't it?

It is.

And I think that the thought process is--

how do we continue that parent engagement on campus?

I mean, I think that's kind of where it starts.

So maybe you start with the independent leagues.

And yeah, it's a little legwork on the front end of the parent

you're vetting, more or less, if you're a parent of the school.

And let them use these unused resources.

And they're on the round campus.

And again, not sitting in board meetings,

or education board meetings or anything like that.

And so I'm still outside looking in,

even though my staff are all fully

employed by GAC.

But there's an opportunity there

to connect families on campus.

Could this work in Kansas City and other parts of the country?

I don't know.

But the one gripe I do have is within the high school tennis

world is Georgia is one of the only states

that doesn't recognize UTR.

They do now.

They do now.

No, they're state.

No, Georgia high school.

So just started this year.

Did they?

Yeah, just started this year.

I just talked to Chase about it.

Yep.

So that's good, because they've been--

so let me-- I'll step that back one step.

Most of the-- not every team is required to do it.

And UTR will do it for them.

First of all, cases, team, and whatnot.

But the benefit, even if you're not playing college tennis,

the benefit of that junior--

and I'm glad to hear that, because I did not know.

That's great.

Learn something new every day--

the benefit to that junior when they go to college, again,

connecting with other players on campus.

You know, hey, you're not a 12-year-chir.

No big deal.

Well, I was a four in high school.

Great.

We got a club team over here you can play out.

And right away, there's a friend group that's happening.

So, hey, that's good.

I wish the next day would be requirement.

Because then it also helps these high school coaches

that maybe are just more of an administrator

to help them have a team connect better with other teams.

Outside of their region or local play.

So you have a list.

Let's have that argument later.

Yeah, no.

I'm going to take the other side, because I actually

think it's a bad idea for Georgia High School's

to use UTR because I think you're going to make the high school

coach irrelevant.

But because UTR--

Yeah, that's a good idea.

Yeah, that's cool.

Yeah, that was a standpoint of how

to help that kid in college.

Yeah, helping the players, definitely.

I think--

I'll play it as--

Not the play.

Not the play.

Not the play at Georgia.

Maybe on the club team.

Maybe on the other side.

Yeah.

That's a tangent.

I want to get too far away.

I'm with you.

Let's follow up with that one as well.

All right, Bobby got anything else for Scott?

Because I want to ask him what he's got coming up

and then hit him with King of tennis.

No, like you said, that we just opened up another can of worms

for another day because--

Great.

And I think it also helped change the perspective

of the school tennis team, which has always been,

do we have enough warm bodies?

I mean, I'm fortunate enough to be in South Forrest

site, whereas a community coach, we do obviously know

are you doing the UTR.

And it does help us formulate the team.

And it's a process.

And it's also a good way to sell the game where, hey, guys,

it makes the coach's life easier.

We're now you have something to tell the parent that they're

just not going to make the team anymore.

We're in an area where we have a lot of players.

Look at their UTR.

This isn't me telling you your kid doesn't belong.

This is a system.

So I see a place for it.

And like I said, I hope it leads to kids becoming more

interested in just if we're going to make the commitment,

make the commitment, and take it a little more seriously.

For the things that Scott said, I wish, being

of a different generation that there were club teams.

I didn't want to play Division I.

I didn't want to put that commitment in,

but I still wanted to play.

I was fortunate.

My freshman year, I found a kid who had transferred from Baylor,

who had played on the tennis team.

So I thought I was good all of a sudden,

because I'm playing a guy who played Southwest Conference

tennis.

And that gave me some perspective.

But he went away.

And I lost that opportunity.

So I did tennis wasn't as big a part of my life as the bars were.

And I wish it was the other way around.

So there's good in everything.

And I'd like to see that be the impetus behind.

Hey, let's take this a little more seriously.

Because of what it can become for you,

the opportunities to meet, as you said,

the opportunities to get in and group when you walk on campus,

where you have more people to reach out to initially

when you don't know too many.

At the end of the day, it's really the goal of a coach, a mentor,

whatever it may be, is to foster that love for the game,

whether it's a first time playing, or you're

looking to play at the highest level.

I think the biggest--

and we've all had players come back saying, man, my time,

my time in the tennis court was transformational.

I'm still playing today at 25, 30, whatever it may be.

And that's what you like to hear as a coach.

That's the part that is huge, in my opinion.

Speaking to your success, the reason why you're

able to grow is the open door.

From an industry standpoint, tennis

has a hard time attracting new players,

has a hard time attracting young coaches.

Well, if you made it a little bit more accessible

and showed a path a little bit better through something,

the more the better.

Any marketing guy wants numbers.

I want to have more numbers.

So how do we get more numbers?

And I love the fact that tennis is fun.

We have, again, this is 10,000 topics.

We have obesity issues in this country.

Kids don't take gym anymore.

This doesn't make sense to me.

We're not teaching the right things at a young age

where they become part of who you are.

I mean, I don't know anything other than exercising.

I've been doing it since I was five.

That's just a part of my day.

And there's so many things that indoctrination's too hard,

a word, but presenting it at a young age

and getting the feeling that exercising

and feeling good about yourself produces,

then you want more.

And that's in all aspects of life.

So Kudos, it's a good formula,

and we need to get it out there.

Yeah, and I will plug kind of the traditional tennis pro,

if you want to call it work week, right?

There is obviously high burnout and all that kind of stuff.

One thing that really stood out to me

in our environment is family first.

And you're starting to see, I know they're doing

at the UST National Campus,

and they've worked on it for a couple of years.

How to create that better balance for that pro

such that, you know, Darryl would tell me all the time,

you can't teach 60 hours a week for the rest of your life.

I love this.

It's like, it's your drive.

Yeah.

Yeah, but I mean, you know, maybe I didn't have enough hobbies.

I don't know.

(laughing)

I kind of golfed and I was able to get to this

pretty early event.

We had Monday.

Yeah, everybody, right.

But, you know, that is, that's where, you know,

I think within our industry, you know,

it's maybe a little bit of a tangent that's celebrated

or champion that, you know, hey, you can get everything,

you know, the fulfillment in the pay,

and we have the end of the day, out of this career

and not miss family, you know, not miss this event,

not miss that event or hey, you know,

I'm on, you know, I'm, I have the afternoon slots.

I'm on court till 10 o'clock at night, you know,

five, six days a week, whatever it is.

But on the other side of that is,

how many people that do you know that actually

no job opportunities outside of being on the court?

And that's where I would like to see, you know,

more visibility around, you know.

What we're doing.

Right.

That's why we're trying to help you here.

That's kind of why I bring that because there's,

you know, most of all, oh, 10 is okay, you're coaching.

Well, yes, but, you know, there's, you know,

part is like, you know, can you get this from UST

a little bit of them saying, hey, these are all the opportunities,

you know, you know, rap or a stats guy, a dart fish guy,

you know, the court side of things, Mike Invernone,

you know, just, just things like that that people,

the whole ecosystem.

Well, and what is, what, you tell,

what was your title again? What you're doing right now?

Well, director of tennis, that's the academy side.

And then our GAC has an online school called Ethos.

So I'm the director of strategic partnerships.

And they're being my boy.

Yeah, it's a whole nother, you know, avenue, you know,

our goal there is, like I am here,

I'm in Indian Wells right now.

We're a sponsor at the Easter Bowl.

Our goal is, you know, those kids that are our platforming

and those ones that eventually become,

or come to the platform, we will never see them in,

you know, on the campus of GAC, that's not the point.

The point is to provide a college prep education

for them from anywhere in the world.

And, you know, in order to do that,

you want to be, you want to support them along the way.

And I'll, you know, one step further to that,

and this is fascinating.

I don't know how much you guys use chat GPT

or any AI machine learning.

But GAC created their own AI tutor called Trek AI.

And what's unique about it is wherever you are in the world,

you can get on, you know, get on Trek,

ask the questions specific to your class, you know,

so you're in a math class, you don't understand assignment five

from chapter, whatever.

It, you can get on there, ask the questions

and it's a chronic in nature, the last question's back.

What we have found is students are more likely

to ask the tutor questions and in the classroom.

You know, so just that next step.

So now, let's write.

But then, you know, it's a truth model.

So chat is great in the sense that it's a predictability model.

But if you take chat and you layer information on top of it,

it'll only grab from that information.

So where I'm going with that is you can completely have,

you know, you can have a tennis background

and you can get into the technology side,

which tennis has always been pretty bad about.

(laughs)

Go golf, go golf.

Go golf.

But there's another problem.

Now, that wasn't something that, I mean,

smarter people have created this at GAC,

but it falls in my lap because, I was talking with a family

earlier today and you know, okay, our time, you know,

we live in Hawaii, the time zone is completely different.

You know, what if I can't hold a teacher?

Here you go.

You know, here's our tutor and that information goes back

to the teacher.

It will eventually, okay,

and I don't know if the technology's fast enough just yet

where you'll have this conversation

with an AI version of your teacher.

I mean, that's out there.

And, you know, the next step is using something like this

to help pros develop lesson plans, you know,

help pros and facilities.

Hey, you've got a staff of 10 summer camp, you know,

workers, you know, how do you line them up?

Yeah, you got great training, everything like that,

but what type of tools can you give that, you know,

that director or give that lead coach so that he can help

these other coaches without babysitting them, you know,

getting right down to the micro level.

So it's just kind of another one of those plugs

where, you know, the school at South Jasey is very,

you know, forward thinking.

You know, we're, we've been in, you know,

tennis is a big, you know, big market for us

from the online school side, but like a question we're in,

you know, racquetball, which is kind of shocking golf.

And there's a market for it for those kids, you know,

not wanting to give up their, you know,

college club education just to go after, you know,

a sport that they love or wherever it may be.

So, well, it's got, we've spoken a couple times,

but I think this is the funny part about the question

where it speaks, I think, volumes of your humility

because what I was getting to is you're the center point

of all this, you know, as the tennis director of the guy,

we know a bunch of people.

And as Sean said, that's what we're trying to accomplish

with Go Tennis.

If we always laugh about, you know,

I want to start a concierge service.

You know, I got a guy in New York, you always say,

oh, I got a guy who does that.

I got it right.

As the tennis director, we listen to a lot of different voices.

So, we hear about, you know, my club, it's windy,

we're very fortunate where the southeast

and marketing rep for Cadillac lives there.

So, I've been involved in various tournaments

and gotten him involved in professional events

and got exposure of things because I've listened,

had conversations, learned more about what,

and as you said, I'm not a technological guru by any,

but I get to introduce to people

and we get to put people together.

And I think that's another aspect

from a job fulfillment.

Like you said, you can't work 60 hours a week.

So, you know, create the atmosphere where you go

and I've been very fortunate at the working clubs

as a single dad, you know, part of my interview,

what do you do?

I'm a single dad.

Everything else pays the bills,

so I can be a single dad.

And, you know, that's why, so there's no,

I'm not gonna be here when, you know,

if you're looking for somebody,

it's gonna be here 80 hours a week, I'm not your guy.

'Cause I have a daughter.

- That's why it started out with, you know,

when Sean says like, who are you?

At the end of the day, you know, yes,

the titles are titles, but a connector of people.

- You know, in our case,

connecting players to the game of tennis, you know,

I really, I value that opportunity.

And just so you're saying, you know,

with the guy from Cadillac,

which you gotta tell 'em,

that new, the new electric Cadillac, I--

- Eric, I'm the cue to whatever.

I love it, Eric.

I want one, Eric, yes.

- It is nice, I can't.

- You can't get one, so.

- I wrote in one, I think it was like two weeks ago,

a friend of a friend at one.

And then I was at Don and Miami for the day

on Tuesday this week.

And they were, I mean, they were a big sponsor

down there the Miami year.

And they're beautiful cars.

And selfishly being a guy from Michigan,

anything in the big three, you know, works for me.

(laughs)

- That's right, well Scott, we appreciate your time.

And it sounds like we can do this forever.

But it looks like the sun is setting behind you.

So that'll be, that's a cool view you got going.

- Oh my gosh, it is, here we go.

- Okay, so before--

- There we go, show me, there we go.

I want to see that, look at that.

- Actual Indian Wells, that is awesome.

So for those--

- You got today laid dollar short

because you know, all the players are in Miami right now.

So that's okay, still a cool view, I like that a lot.

But you know it's common,

and I want to ask you our King of Tennis question

because we get the best answers from the best people.

And I think we can help tennis in a big way

if we can crowdsource all the best ideas.

And one of the ways we're doing that

is with our King of Tennis question.

So last thing what I want to do is ask you,

Scott Hutchinson, director of strategic partnerships

for ethos, and we got to talk about more about the online school

when we get the chance and director of tennis at GACS.

If you were King of Tennis for a day, however long it takes,

whether it's of the world of just Georgia, just Atlanta,

whatever your thought process is on being King of Tennis,

is there anything you would do or change?

- From the highest level, I would definitely make tennis

similar to some of the other professional sports

in that bringing WTA and ATP together for more events

and have a season.

You know, it is odd to me that leading up to Indian Wells,

for example, you've got the top 10 players playing

in seven different places.

Now maybe that's just an American speaking

because we got football, basketball, baseball.

We always see the players in the team

and yeah, I get it to an individual sport.

I think there are absolutely needs,

you gotta find a way to have an off season.

Absolutely gotta find a way.

You gotta find a way to combine the tours

such that the men and the women are playing more often together.

The ATP tour is in great shape.

The WTA tour is struggling financially.

This is a well-known thing.

You know, say what you will about some of the,

you know, entities trying to get into tennis

and that have invested in tennis.

I mean, but I think they're in order for the casual fan

to follow the sport and not just, you know,

listen to a podcast here and there to find that

where the thing is, you gotta connect the tours

a little bit better.

You really do.

So that you know when the season is.

I mean, the three of us may, we might know,

Rotterdam's going on right now, but where's that?

You know, the Dallas Open's going, okay, great,

but connect them a little bit better.

Collegiate lead, you know, the tennis on campus.

Need to, you know, need to see more,

I would say promotion behind that.

And then, you know, the US Open's a great opportunity,

you know, for US Tated.

You know, I know there's money behind it that takes it to us,

but to really say, hey, you may not play college tennis.

Like on the, you know, college team,

but the tennis on campus, the club teams,

great way to stay involved.

And I don't know that, I mean, even the kids

we have graduating this year, I've said it probably

a hundred times to them, you know,

when you're connecting with your, you know,

your counselor or wherever, you know,

the people that you get connected at school,

I mean, find out where the tennis,

you know, where the tennis teams are playing.

Find out, you know, where, you know, what is it?

And then on top of that, I mean,

how often has university at Georgia,

been on tennis channel?

I mean, you know, we've all, we've all been to a match up there,

they get 10,000 fans there, you know,

I mean, how often has any college match,

you know, been on the tennis channel in between,

you know, like the Sunshine Simmer,

and I get it, you got everyone's in Miami,

you want to watch them promote it.

You're getting great players coming from the game.

You're absolutely great players coming from the game.

And then down, you know, down to the grassroots level

from, you know, the league play, the individual play,

you know, we have to be open, right?

I'm not saying that you're, you know,

your clubs and everything like that,

your high-end clubs, you know, need to invite everybody

'cause there's reason why you join a country club

as an example.

But the ability to be more open,

whether it be schools, whether it be neighborhoods,

invites more people to the game.

We do have a, obviously a big shortage of pros.

But I think it's because most people think it's just,

you're on the court teaching and you're grinding hours.

Yeah, it's a bit of it.

But how is that different than the guy that works at JP Morgan

and has to work 90 hours a week,

the first 10 years of his career,

they gotta put the time in, right?

I mean, sort of financially it's a little bit different,

but, you know, that may be the first foray into it,

but in order for us to, I think to really expand the coaching side

and expand more people in the game,

I don't think you gotta make it easier for say,

but you gotta get, I think we need to,

the word needs to be out that there are more opportunity

than just being on the court.

You can be in this industry, you know,

I mean, I, Vivler, remember, you know, Tom Adan

and it would be, I want to go to school, be a tennis pro.

And we knew no one that did it as a full-time job.

My Spanish teacher who introduced me to tennis

was the local pro at the country club,

but he was, you know, he had a job.

(laughs)

You know, the opportunity for kids to play,

openly without a coach and how to,

I think it's a big part of it as well.

You know, we're very ingrained,

and you gotta do a lesson, you gotta do this.

And I'd say, hey, hey, you know what?

It helps everyone, helps financially,

all that good stuff, great.

More times than not, most kids that come to a lesson

will have not played independently outside of that.

And if we can, as pros, you know,

the homework at the end of the lesson, you know,

go hit against the garage, go to the sand.

And I always look at the good and people.

I think most do that, most say it, most encourage it,

but we probably don't follow up on it from that perspective.

- Good work.

- And so that'd be kind of, you know,

looking at it from three different stages.

That, you know, the pro, the college,

and then right down to, you know, the recreational level

or those just beginning, that would be my

big, big, big children, I'm calling.

And Bobby, I should have known Scott would have

the all-encompassing answer.

It isn't using the high medium and low,

most everybody else could have a cat or two.

(laughing)

- Sounds like a politician.

- Good thought.

- I know.

- Oh, yeah, that's not in my,

it'd be hard for me to be a politician.

- I know strategic partnerships.

- That's not that different.

You still gotta be fairly political.

- Yeah, no, that's true.

- Yeah, yeah, but, but yeah.

- That's a great answer.

- Well, I appreciate you asking me to come on.

I know we talked about it a few times

and you're just glad we were able to make it work.

So I try to watch as many of your podcasts as I can.

- So you're the one.

(laughing)

- Hey, like, hey, you got to come where?

You guys don't-- - I'm waiting to make that joke.

I'm sorry, I wasn't sure when it was gonna come,

but I've been sitting on that one.

But Scott Hutchinson, I really appreciate it,

Bobby, as always, thank you so much.

And Scott, we will definitely follow up

and we will be in touch.

Thanks so much.

- Scott, thank you.

- Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

- Well, there you have it.

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