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00:00:08 Sana: Welcome back, listeners to the podcast where we explore the intersection of personal growth and professional experience and listeners. I'm your host, as always here. And today we are tackling a topic that I think. I think it resonates with almost everyone listening. How do we stay focused on what really matters when life keeps throwing new demands at us? And if you're someone who feels like you're constantly, constantly putting out fires instead of building the life you want. This episode is for you. If you have got goals sitting on the back burner because they seem impossible or you just don't know where to start. This conversation is definitely for you. Today I'm sitting down with Doctor William Thomas, an executive coach based in Singapore who has one of the most unconventional resumes I have come across listeners. He is a retired US Air Force lieutenant colonel, holds a PhD in public policy, has taught at Georgetown University, and has been working across Asia for over fourteen years. But listeners, here's what makes his story particularly compelling at age forty two, an age when when many people think that their athletic window has closed, William started running nine months later. He completed his first marathon and he didn't stop there. By age fifty, William had achieved something that only a handful of people in the world have done the marathon Grand Slam. That means running a marathon on all seven continents and at the North Pole. You heard that right, listeners. The North Pole. He has written a book about this journey called Cross the Lines, and he is now sixty years old, still running three to four marathons every year. But here's why we are really having this conversation today, listeners. William's marathon journey isn't about just running. It's a masterclass in resilience, goal setting and refusing to let circumstances dictate your possibilities. And honestly, that's that's what so many of us struggle with, isn't it? I mean, we get we get comfortable, we get busy, we get scared or we convince ourselves that certain chapters of our lives are closed. We have to move on. So whether you are trying to balance your personal and professional life, you are feeling stuck in your career or you just need a push. You just need that motivation to start something you have been putting off. This conversation is going to give you practical strategies and hopefully a different way of thinking about what you are capable of. So William, welcome to this plan and I am absolutely honored.

00:03:26 William Thomas: Well, thanks so much for inviting me in and I've been really looking forward to this conversation, so I'm glad we have an opportunity to chat. Thank you for this.

00:03:34 Sana: And, what do you do? William, you know, there was there was one conversation I was having, a few months back with, uh, one of my acquaintance, and, um, I told him that I would love to learn, um, guitar, ukulele or maybe drums. Um, he he said that. Okay. how old are you? You you are in your thirties, uh, mid-thirties, maybe. Uh, yeah. I mean, you shouldn't ask my age, but still, I'm going to say mid thirties, like, jokingly, of course. So, uh, he said, uh, I don't think it's the right time. I mean, this is a time when you think about your, um, retirement, how exactly you're going to plan out everything because your, um, learning capacity kind of, um, it decreases as you age. I mean, there's no point in here when you are in a young twenties or maybe teens and all that, then I think it's the ideal time. I mean, it's it's gone. It's gone. There's no point. And that kind of initially like it absolutely broke my heart. Ah, but then when I was reading your intro and I kind of, you know, saw that forty two, you started to run marathons. I mean, forty two is not typically when people start running marathons, let alone set goals to run on all seven continents. So, uh, this is this is really, really amazing, William.

00:05:07 William Thomas: Well, thanks. And, uh, you know, first of all, I hope that you do take up the guitar or the ukulele or whatever instrument you pursue, because it really is never too late to to take on something new and try something new. Um, I think we do let circumstances get in the way, especially as we get older. Um, and if I can share, there are a couple of things that I experienced when I got started running that I had to kind of work around. Um, the first is, you know, you talked about the the friend that you talked to, and maybe he wasn't really supportive of this. and I think it is really critical to have people around you who are supportive, um, and not necessarily like, you know, yes, men who are going to tell you everything you do is perfect, but people who will hold you accountable, people who will encourage you, people who will help you find a way to do what you want to do instead of telling you why you can't. Um, and the other thing that that I kind of had to get around and this was, I think, really the key to starting to run, but also continuing is as we get older, we have so many other things happening in our lives. Um, you know, our careers are moving along or we have family or we have other I don't want to say distractions because you don't want to call your family a distraction. But but there are other things that take up our attention and take up our time. Um, and what I recognized was that, you know, at age forty two, I made the decision to get into better shape, and I knew that I should be running, but I also knew from past experience that I was likely to get distracted or get bored and stop. And what happened was a friend of mine had just run his first marathon and he said, well, why don't you do this? Why don't you sign up to run a marathon with me next year and tell everybody you're going to do it? And once you create that accountability, once you've put the word out there on Facebook, which is exactly what I did in, uh, you know, in that year, in two thousand and eight, I said, I'm going to run a marathon in October. At that point, you cannot back out because nobody wants to look bad in front of their friends. And so when you have these other things that are going to take your attention, and if you are concerned that that's going to pull you away from your goal, create a situation where you can't be pulled away from the goal. Create a situation where there is some accountability there to yourself or to others that will that will help you focus, that will, that will, that will basically demand that you continue to focus on this goal, and you'd be surprised at what you can then push forward and accomplish.

00:07:47 Sana: Absolutely. And one point that really. Resonated with me, William, is, um, you should have people who can support you, who can be your cheerleaders, but not fans or, you know, not yes men, because that will help you to understand what really exactly have to put stake at. I mean, what what exactly is the scenario here? Otherwise, you know, um, I mean, there is no accountability here. There is no practicality here. So that is something that sometimes we really miss out on. Um, and that is something that I've also learned sometimes the hard way through, uh, many, many experiences. And I also think that, um, you know, we, we do some things, but, uh, we think that It's not worth sharing on LinkedIn or on social media or, you know, something that people, oh my goodness, you're doing this. You're doing that. I mean, what about your learning a new language? What about your learning something? Uh, I mean, I, I, uh, did podcasting irrespective of because I don't come from a creative background. Um, although I definitely, uh, had a lot of interest in, um, public speaking, sometimes debating. Then, um, I used to participate in, in my school days and, yeah, there were occasions where people actually appreciated me, but then it didn't come across my mind that, you know, something like this, I should actually attempt it kind of happened because of the circumstances, because of the circumstances. And then at the same time, irrespective of the circumstances, um, why am I saying that? And this can be counterintuitive because I wanted to, uh, take some time off, uh, focus on actually growing. Just not growing for the sake of what my, um, conventional job is demanding from me. But at least to do something outside of the work that I'm doing from nine to five. It's not just that I'm doing. I'm only learning during those that timing or that time of the day, but something which I'm doing, which I feel like fulfilled or, you know, uh, my soul is like, you know, feeling good that. Yes, I'm I'm doing something which I'm loving it. Um, and secondly, I had my priorities. I mean, when you get to your thirties, um, you are your your caregiver. You have to in some or the other ways, take care of your parents. You have a family there. So you have to find out a way out of all those circumstances and life scenarios that can work out for you So that's why I believe this was irrespective of the circumstances and because of the circumstances as well.

00:10:46 William Thomas: And, you know, you make a really good point there when you say that you've got to find a way around these circumstances. Um, and you had a guest recently, I think it was, uh, Tiffany Janowitz who said something that really stuck with me. She said, don't wait for someone to save you.

00:11:02 Speaker 3: Exactly.

00:11:03 William Thomas: You know, so, yes, you know, you want supportive people around you, but at the same time, you ultimately have to be the one to drive yourself forward. You know, you can get all the inspiration and motivation from others that that you can, but ultimately you're the one that's got to figure it out. You know how to get around these limitations, how to get around these, uh, concerns or these issues that you may have. Um, and, uh, yeah, that that really resonated with me, I think. So again, that's where I think having some specific goals can be really valuable for getting you to, to move forward. So in my case, like I said, I wanted to run. I said, well, I want to be in better shape. Well what does that mean? You know, that's how do you how do you define that? How do you measure that? And so it was helpful to have a specific goal, which was, I'm going to run this marathon in nine months, and either I'm going to achieve it or I'm not, but at least I will know if I've done it or not, as opposed to just saying, well, I want to be in better shape. Well, yeah, I don't know how to measure that. So when you have something specific that you can drive toward, then you can come up with a strategy for getting you there. Then you can come up with a roadmap for for getting there. And maybe it's not just a single path to that success. You know, you might have a plan for how you're going to get there. But like you said, circumstances change. Things come up. So it's important to have multiple ways to get to your objective, to get to your goal. And I think that's that's really important. You know, try to create multiple paths to that success. So if something goes wrong, you don't have to abandon your goal. You just abandon whatever road you are on and you find another road. Um, and that's that's I think what helps you get around some of those, those challenges that come up in those circumstances that change and allow you to have the resilience to continue on as something unfortunate happens or unexpected happens. If you know you've got other opportunities to get to your goal, it's a lot easier to not, uh, you know, not get disappointed and not to lose your motivation, you know?

00:13:05 Sana: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. No doubt, no doubt. And my next question is somewhat, you know, because I once again, I find this one also connected with, with, uh, my journey. And there was another episode which I recently recorded, listeners, it's yet to be out, but yeah, uh, something that, uh, I one hundred percent advocate for is you take the risk, but then there has to be a realistic calculation behind taking that risk, you know, because, um, uh, I took six months to decide whether I should take this time off or not, whether I have the adequate resources to thrive, whether I have the adequate resources. What can be the worst case scenarios in here if it doesn't work out? Because I have had the fear of leaving, uh, that, you know, stability, the paycheck and, um, the, the entire dynamics of the corporate world, the stability that is the main thing. And my parents, I mean, they are they are coming from an era where nobody even thought about it was not in the trend. It was not in anyone's wildest imagination to leave their stable jobs and do something, um, sitting at home. I mean, they think that you have to get up in the morning, you have to go to your work, you have to come back. This is how it works out. Other than that, it's nothing else is relevant. So there were a lot of factors, uh, to, to account for before taking that decision. So you talk about how there's nothing special about you that others can do what you have done, William. But then you also had resources that most people don't have. You know, um, like, they have to sometimes, you know, they are once again tied by the, by some really, really serious circumstances. They may not have the ability to travel, the resources, time, money, whatever it is the time to train, probably a career which is flexible enough to accommodate this. So, um, is there a gap between that anyone can do this and the reality of what it actually takes?

00:15:20 William Thomas: There is, I mean, and I you know, I certainly recognize that I was born into a good situation. Um, and, and I do have resources and time today that are important for me to be able to do this. Having said that, one of the reasons I have those resources is because I had planned for that, even, you know, twenty years ago. I mean, even before I started running, I knew that at some point in my career, I was going to want to be able to have freedom and flexibility. And so I think it is important to start thinking early about, um, even before you know exactly what you want to do, start creating as many opportunities for yourself as you can, create as much flexibility for yourself as you can later in life, because it's it's easier if you, you know, if you start when you're twenty than when you're forty, you've got more options. If you start when you're thirty nine than when you're forty, you don't have that many that many extra options. Um, I will also say, I think there is a tendency, especially among some of the sports people in media, to say that, you know, everybody can do everything. Nothing is impossible. And and I don't necessarily agree with that.

00:16:33 Sana: Okay.

00:16:33 William Thomas: Um, you know, there there are, there are people who have not run a marathon who, who can't, you know, and I, I would say if someone, for example, is a quadriplegic, then running a marathon is not a goal that you should necessarily set. But there are goals that are achievable. They're just not achievable today. And we often look at that and say, well, I can't do this today. So that means I can't do it. And that's not true. That's the part where I have a disagreement. The fact that you can't do something today doesn't mean you can never do it. It just means you can't do it right now. The day I started running, I could not have run a marathon. It took me about nine months of training and preparation to get ready for that. When I ran that first marathon, I could not have then gone on and run a marathon at the North Pole. You know, I was not ready for that. So, um, it's something that was achievable in the future, even though it wasn't achievable today. And that's where I would like to see people have a little more self-confidence. You know, in their ability to get ready for that and work towards that goal. And some of that too, of course, takes patience, which in our modern technology era, we tend to go for instant gratification in many cases. And, you know, a lot of the most valuable goals, the most exciting goals are not going to happen instantly. If they could, they wouldn't be exciting.

00:18:03 Speaker 4: That's true, that's true, that's true.

00:18:06 Sana: I really love, uh, really appreciate that distinction because, um, I think what what exactly it is the mindset shift. It's not necessarily the specific achievement. And that's something we can all work with regardless of our circumstances. But it it does require us to be honest. It requires that clarity and self-awareness about what our version of extraordinary looks like.

00:18:41 William Thomas: And, you know, and that's going to be different for everybody, which is one reason that I never go to people and say, well, gosh, you should run a marathon or you should go to Antarctica. I mean, I should, but that doesn't mean anybody else should. Um, by the same token, I've had people say to me, oh, you should learn a new language. And I think, okay, well, which one? Because I've lived in Singapore and Thailand and the Philippines and my clients are all over Asia. So, you know, what language should I be learning? Um, it wasn't necessarily the right goal for me, but it's right for other people. And that's what they should pursue. So, um, I've had and again, this gets back to the surrounding yourself with supportive people issue. Um, I've certainly had people when I started running and as I pursued some other unique running experiences over the years, I've had people say, oh, I don't think you should do that. Well, that's not for them to say. You know, it really isn't. And, and, and you probably shouldn't listen too much to people who are just perpetually saying, you shouldn't do that. Um, because a lot of times what they mean is they shouldn't do that. Um, which is fine. But that's, you know, that's not necessarily right for you. Yeah.

00:19:56 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.

00:19:59 Sana: Let's let's talk about the actual journey in here, William. I mean, the marathon Grand Slam, seven, seven continents, plus the North Pole. I'm curious about the progression. I mean, did you did you map out the entire thing from the beginning, or did this evolve as you went? You know, because I think, uh, a lot of us struggle with long term planning. In fact, I also struggle with long term planning. Like we either have that, um, fear or we we get paralyzed by the, the enormity of a goal, or we're so focused on the end result that we don't know where to start.

00:20:42 William Thomas: Right. Well, let me let me share one thought on kind of that issue of, of being overwhelmed and then, uh, talk a little bit more about the journey itself. Um, I have a, I have a philosophy that I repeat to myself when I'm running a marathon, and that is run the mile that you're in. And what I mean by that is you've got things you need to do right now. So focus on those rather than what you need to do in another two hours. So like if I'm at kilometer five in a forty two kilometer marathon, I can't be worried about kilometer forty. I need to focus on kilometer six and then kilometer seven, because if I start thinking about what's going to happen when I get to forty, I will get overwhelmed. Exactly like you suggested. Um, so while it is important to have at least a strategy for how you're going to achieve a long term goal, maybe not a specific plan, but at least have an idea of what the end result is going to look like and how you think you can get there. You need to break that down into smaller pieces and then tackle those smaller pieces, and ultimately you'll get to where you want to go.

00:21:57 Speaker 4: Mhm.

00:21:58 William Thomas: So when you when you ask about the journey you know I was like I said I started running at forty two, ran my first marathon, ran a couple others in the next year. And then I got a little concerned because my goal had been to run a marathon. And the idea was that will keep me running, that will keep me going and keep me healthy and keep me fit. And I was concerned because I had accomplished that goal. I mean, I'd run a marathon. So I thought, oh, I need something new. And that's where I stumbled across the idea of the Grand Slam. And at the time, uh, like I said, I was forty four years old at the time. Uh, I'd run a few marathons. I'd run on two continents in North America and Asia. And I said, okay, this is good because this will this is going to take me some time. So this is a nice long term goal. And I sat down with my best friend on my forty fourth birthday and I said, listen, by the time I'm fifty, I will complete the Grand Slam. Now, I didn't have like the specific races mapped out, but I was going to do. I didn't have an exact timeline, but I knew that I needed to do six more marathons at a minimum, you know, over the next six years.

00:23:06 Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:23:06 William Thomas: And and that gave me my starting point. And then I started looking for specific races. But one of the things that helped was not having an incredibly specific plan. And the reason I say that is so many other things changed in my life that if I had had a very specific plan and then I retired from the Air Force, or I moved to Singapore, or I started my own business, all of which happened, I might have gotten knocked off of that plan and never continued forward if I'd been so locked into a very specific way of achieving that goal, it would have been a problem for me. So instead, I gave myself a lot of options. I gave myself a lot of paths to get there. And then over the years, as I made progress towards that ultimate goal, I was motivated by the fact that I was making progress, that I had run a race in Europe and in South America, and then, um, and then Africa and then Australia and then ultimately Antarctica and then later the North Pole. So I guess I guess what I'm suggesting there is to avoid getting too overwhelmed and to avoid getting demotivated when things don't go as planned. Maybe don't have a super specific plan, but instead have a broader strategy for the long term, and then plans for the immediate objectives that are going to get you towards that ultimate goal. That that, I think would be my suggestion for avoiding that feeling of being overwhelmed.

00:24:38 Speaker 4: Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. I mean there.

00:24:43 Sana: Is a timeline in here, but you're, you're not planning just for the sake of finishing or that goal. But, and that's, that's where the, the fear of, of uh starting it kind of creeps in. And this is something, you know, um, we, we see when people have all these New Year goals set, um, I think the most popular one can be, you know, the, the fitness or the weight loss goals. I mean, when we start, we start with this great gusto that, you know, oh my goodness, I'm so motivated. Let me go out for a run. Let me do one hour, two hours or three hours of exercise. And then after a few days, that entire, um, excitement, that entire zeal, kind of it starts to fade away. And then we get into that, um, loop of, um, of getting we get stuck in that loop, that why am I not get able to get out of that loop? Is it something wrong with me? Why am I getting stuck in there? That whole, you know, uh, thought the thoughts of judgment, the feelings of shame, and then that fear. And it's it's a very, very common one that, you know, many, many people face with. I have actually faced a lot of such, uh, you know, scenarios, such moments of, you know, judging myself. Why am I not able to accomplish this goal? Because all I'm focusing is on the goal. Just the goal. Not exactly. How should I start with not how sustainably I can carve out a path to reach that goal. So I think that is that is a very, very crucial, um, advice that you are giving away to all the listeners.

00:26:32 William Thomas: Well, and that's I you know, I really am a firm believer in breaking things down into small pieces. And, um, I mean, even when I do my training runs, you know, I've got in the last kilometer and a half of a of a five K run here, um, about half of it is uphill. And instead of worrying about even the next kilometer, I'm worried about the next hundred meters, you know, and it may seem a little silly, but but it gets me there, because once I get past those hundred meters, I'm like, well, you know, I can do that, so I can do the next one. If I can do that, I can do the next one. And that's another thing that I think can help us overcome some of that fear of failure, or overcome some of that concern about not hitting our objectives perfectly is. Think back on things that you've done before that were challenging.

00:27:22 Speaker 4: Okay.

00:27:23 William Thomas: And where you were successful and realized, well, wait, if I can do that, well, I bet I can do this. And that really that really came in handy for me back in, uh, back at the end of twenty fourteen. So I had started my own business. I was was living in Asia. I had left a job with a consulting firm, and I'd started my own business, and I was very nervous, as you can imagine. You know, you don't know if there's going to be a paycheck coming in. You're not really sure how this is all going to work out. And that was also the time that I went to Antarctica to run the Antarctic Ice Marathon, which is a very challenging race. Uh, it's about a thousand kilometers from the South Pole. It takes place on a glacier inland in Antarctica. And we were there for five days. You know, it was minus thirty, you know, when we ran. That's. And that's, by the way, that's the same temperature if it's Celsius or Fahrenheit, that's where the scales come together. Is it minus thirty? And I know because I was there, and I remember as I was flying back and I was living I was still in Singapore at the time, but as I was flying back from, from there to Singapore, I remember telling myself, you know, I just ran a marathon in Antarctica, and if I can do that, I can run a business. Okay. Now, granted, the two have nothing to do with each other, right? But but it's like if I can take on this huge goal and this really challenging situation and be successful, well, then I can do this other thing. And that was the confidence I needed to really get me started once I returned and kicked off the business, you know.

00:29:03 Speaker 4: Mhm. Yeah that makes sense.

00:29:05 Sana: That absolutely makes sense. And then it's not just the confidence but it gave you that much needed clarity also because although both the the goals are not same, but there are a lot of parallels in here, a lot of parallels. Yeah. So okay.

00:29:25 William Thomas: Balance is important. In fact that's something I took away from the Antarctica run was I realized how important it was going to be for me to have that kind of flexibility in order to complete the Grand Slam. And just to give you an idea, when we went to the North Pole, we actually were delayed going into the pole by about a week because of the conditions on the ice. And then when we got there, we were supposed to be there for about thirty six hours, but the ice at the base camp cracked open and destroyed the runway. So instead of thirty six hours, we were there for five days. And the only reason I was able to accommodate all that is because I had my own business and I was my own boss. And in order to have that kind of flexibility, I thought, okay, I've got to be successful in this business. I can't give up in six months and go back to work for some big company again, because I'm not going to have the ability to say, oh, I'm going off for two or maybe three weeks, you know, to to the other end of the world. Um, so, so I better make this work. And, and it was a real, um, it provided me another degree of motivation to really get the business going and be strong and, and make it work. And it was really, really valuable to have that Antarctica experience just as I was jumping out on my own professionally.

00:30:48 Sana: I mean, thank you for the transition, William, because my my next question is kind of connected with this, the, the flexibility here because, you know, let's say let's say, um, someone sets a goal. I mean, maybe it's to, to change, um, careers, um, start a business, get a degree, maybe learn guitar and maybe get into the creative world and that life happens. Maybe they have a baby, or their parents get sick or there's a financial crisis. At what point is it actually wise to let go of a goal, rather than trying to force circumstances to bend to your will? I mean, isn't there a risk of becoming so fixated or stubborn on what you plan that you miss out on what life is actually offering you?

00:31:41 William Thomas: You absolutely can miss out. And and you can be so focused on the goal that it gets in the way of everything else and maybe creates a really bad situation for you. So I experienced something similar to that. Okay. Between Antarctica and the North Pole. So November twenty fourteen I left my job, I went to Antarctica, came back, kicked off my business, and remember I was planning to my initial goal was to finish the Grand Slam before I turned fifty, which meant I needed to do it in twenty fifteen, because in January twenty sixteen, I was going to turn fifty and I came back from Antarctica. And I realized that, number one, I don't know how much money I'm going to make in the next year. Um, number two, I just spent a bunch of money going to Antarctica, and I know that North Pole is going to be expensive, so maybe I should wait until the April twenty sixteen marathon rather than the April twenty fifteen marathon. And so I went back to my best friend, to whom I had made this commitment on my forty fourth birthday, and I said, listen, here's the thing. I could go forward and try and get this done in twenty fifteen, which is what we said originally. I don't think that's a good idea, and I think I should push this off another year and go in twenty sixteen when I'm more stable in the business, when I have a better idea of what my resources are going to be. I don't think I should do this now because I run the risk of bankrupting myself. And again, the importance of having supportive friends around you who aren't just, yes men. But, you know, we talked about it and he said, well, are you really going to do this? You know, are you just going to keep kicking this down the road or are you going to do it in twenty sixteen? I said, no, no, I'm going to do it in twenty sixteen. Here's the way I'm going to do it. Here's the plan to get me there. But if I do this in twenty fifteen, I'm I it's too big of a risk. And that was a good idea. Now, as it turns out, the April twenty fifteen marathon, I think it was about minus forty one degrees when they ran it. So I'm really glad I wasn't there that year. In the end, this turned out to be really good. When I went in twenty sixteen, the weather was more manageable. We got stranded there for five days. Um, but but at least, you know, at least it was only minus thirty, not minus forty one. So, uh, in the end, it worked out okay. But yeah, that was a case where I needed to push that off. I wouldn't want to abandon the goal. Hmm. Um, I would instead suggest modifying it if possible. Um, once the disruptive circumstances have settled down, or you've gotten into a new pattern or into a new normal, then you can find the best path to get you back to your goal. But I'd hate to see people just abandon their goals if it's really important to them. And this was something that was important to me, so I knew I needed to find a way to make it happen, even if it wasn't going to happen exactly like I had originally thought.

00:34:42 Sana: Um. You know, uh, there's, uh, one, uh, documentary I watched, um, a few months back on Netflix, uh, fourteen peaks. Um, uh, it's, um, it's a documentary about a Nepalese mountaineer. Uh, and I don't remember the name. It's, uh, Pooja. Yeah, I think something. Um. And that was such, such a good documentary I watched. I mean, he wanted to, uh, climb all the fourteen peaks, like all the, uh, you know, eight thousand, uh, feet and those top peaks within record time. Like he had kept a time of seven months. I think the earlier record was, um, I don't know, maybe in years. I don't remember the exact number, but he had so many circumstances which which were not, um, enabling him to achieve that record. I mean, he had his ailing mother, his his wife was a bit skeptical about, uh, you know, uh, let him in him go because, you know, it's it's it's like a different challenge altogether. Fourteen peaks. I mean, we are talking not only about Mount Everest, but all the different peaks. I mean, these peaks have their own set of challenges and own, uh, different type of, you know, geography, different type of climatic conditions. Some are so steep that, you know, no other mountaineer had attempt to climb. So I kind of had a thought like, you know, this, this flash of those images, like when you were mentioning, um, about what? About all the conditions in there like the minus thirty, minus forty, how, uh, that, you know, from thirty six hours it went to like five days, you had to be flexible to make sure at least you are achieving able to achieve the goal in here. And I think it's a beautiful blend of being resilient and then being also flexible or modifying as you rightfully mentioned. So yeah, I mean, this is a very, very practical take on, on these kind of circumstances in here. If that goal is important to you and you believe that, maybe you can modify some of the situations, the circumstances, maybe if things are in your control. I, I think there is no I mean, I don't think you should abandon the goal in there.

00:37:17 William Thomas: I would agree, and I think, you know, you mentioned the flexibility. I think flexibility is a key part of resilience, being able to bend when you need to bend. You know, it's like a, like a tall building that can that can withstand an earthquake by sort of shifting a little bit back and forth, but not collapsing. Um, and it's interesting you mentioned the, uh, the, the example of the climber from Nepal. Um, huh. So, you know, once I completed the Grand Slam, I needed some other goals. And I had one which was to complete the World Marathon Majors in twenty nineteen, uh, which I did. The next goal was to run the Everest Marathon, which is the highest altitude marathon in the world. And so you spend nine days trekking up to the Everest base camp, and then you run a marathon coming back down. And this was where I had, I guess I kind of built in some flexibility in terms of how I define success. And for me, success was going to be finishing this marathon safely and alive and such. Um, and I will tell you, and I ran it May twenty ninth, twenty twenty four. Um, incidentally, I was going to try to run it in twenty twenty. I was registered and then of course, Covid hit.

00:38:29 Sana: Yeah.

00:38:29 William Thomas: And that disrupted everything. And then when when Nepal was open again, I started a new job and I couldn't take leave. And so, you know, all these things came up, but I finally got to go run it in twenty twenty four. I was the last place finisher in that race, and what I took away from that is last place finisher is still a finisher.

00:38:53 Speaker 5: Exactly.

00:38:54 William Thomas: So I think the way you define your goals and perhaps some flexibility that you may give yourself in those goals is a really valuable component of making progress toward those goals.

00:39:07 Sana: Absolutely, absolutely. That's that's a beautiful, beautiful turn towards as we continue the conversation here, listeners on this plane. And, William, before we wrap up, um, this is a bit more personal. Uh, I mean, you are sixty now. You're still running marathons. How how has your relationship with achievement and pushing limits changed? As you know, you have gotten older because because I imagine at some point the body does say, okay, William, this is the limit. How do you think about that?

00:39:46 William Thomas: Yeah, there is there is one goal that I still had for myself, and I talk about it in the final chapter of the book, um, that I don't think I'm going to achieve. And it has to do with running Within a certain time, um, achieving a certain time in a race. And I just, I think I'm at the point now where I'm unlikely to do that. And so, again, I've sort of reset my goals, um, my, my current goal, you know, now that I'm sixty years old, my goal is to complete my fiftieth marathon this year while I'm sixty. So I just turned sixty in January. I've got until January of next year, uh, to do four more. And I'd set this goal at the beginning of last year. This was sort of actually after I came back from Everest and I needed something new. Um, so I ran four marathons last year. I'm going to run four this year, and I'm not going to be as fast as I used to be, but I'm not focusing on that. My goal is no longer a specific time to complete the race. My goal is simply completing a certain number of races this year, and so that affects my training, that affects my nutrition, that affects my scheduling of races. Um, but I get, you know, I've had to shuffle those goals a little bit. Uh, in acknowledging the reality of of what my body is telling me at age sixty compared to age forty two. Yeah.

00:41:09 Sana: This is realistic. This is realistic. And I think this is where the real wisdom is, honestly, like, you know, it's not in the achievement at forty two or fifty. It's in how you are. You are navigating this at sixty because that's the part that is sustainable. That's the part that that acknowledges reality while still refusing to give up on growth.

00:41:35 Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah.

00:41:37 William Thomas: You know, I, I guess one of the sayings that has stuck with me the whole time I've been running is there will come a day that I cannot do this anymore.

00:41:46 Sana: Um.

00:41:47 William Thomas: But today is not that day.

00:41:50 Sana: That's lovely. That's beautiful. It's beautiful. Wow. Uh, So, William, before we wrap up, um, I'm super, super sure listeners are definitely going to connect with you. They would also like to get a hold of your book. They would also like to share their thoughts, maybe seek more wisdom from you. Uh, what would be the easiest way to connect?

00:42:11 William Thomas: So there are a couple of ways. Uh, first of all, the book itself is is available on Amazon, uh, both in paperback and in ebook. The Kindle books, uh, so just cross the lines. A journey to Complete the Marathon Grand Slam is available up there on Amazon. Uh, reaching out to me. And I know you, uh, you often will share the links. Um, but if you look on LinkedIn, uh, that's one way to find me. And just look for William Thomas, PhD and, uh, and that'll that'll find me. Um, the other is I do keep an athlete page on Facebook, and I realize I'm of a generation that still uses Facebook. I know not everybody does, but, um. Yeah, just look for Doctor William Thomas on there. Dr. William Thomas, um, I would love to hear stories from other people. are. So I mean, obviously if anyone has questions or wants to follow up or get any other insights, I'm happy to share. But I would love to hear stories from other people. I would love to hear what challenges people have taken on, whether it's running or something fitness related, or it's getting an advanced degree or moving to another country or whatever your story is, I'd love to hear from from different folks as well. So please do reach out to me through those platforms.

00:43:20 Sana: That's awesome. And listeners, you all know I'm gonna do it for you all. I'll have all the links in the show notes, so find them attached along with this episode on whichever platform you are listening to your podcast to. And, um, for everyone listening, I, I want to end with this. If you have been putting something off, whether it's a career change, a creative project, a health goal, or just having a difficult conversation you have been avoiding. I hope this conversation has given you permission to at least start, not necessarily to run seven marathons, but to identify what your version of that challenge is. And I hope you heard the nuance in what William shared today. This isn't about grinding yourself into the ground or or measuring yourself against impossible standards, but it is about recognizing that the limits you have accepted might not be as fixed as you think. It is about building the support systems that make growth sustainable. It is about being honest with yourself about when to push and when to pivot, about when you are making excuses and when you are honoring genuine constraints. So William, thank you so, so much. This was Is absolutely inspiring and a very, very, I should say, pragmatic conversation on resilience and flexibility and goal achievement and personal development. So thank you so much.

00:45:04 William Thomas: Well, thank you so much for having me. And I have to say that this conversation has gotten me so excited today that as soon as we wrap up, I'm going to go for a run.

00:45:12 Sana: Oh well, I love that, I love that. And everyone listening. Thank you so much for joining us on this blend. If this episode resonated with you, please share it with someone who might need to hear it. Leave us a review. Let us know what challenged you or what you are going to do differently because of this conversation. Just as William told me. Well, definitely he's going for a run. And until next time, I am Sana reminding you that the blend of business and life isn't about balance, it is about integration. And sometimes the best way to grow professionally is to challenge yourself personally. Thank you.