1 00:00:00,090 --> 00:00:06,060 We know that the number one expense cost in most businesses is dealing 2 00:00:06,090 --> 00:00:10,020 with the lost productivity in their employees, and it ties into depression. 3 00:00:10,020 --> 00:00:14,640 So the World Health Organization has done studies that show that, you know, 4 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:18,510 that is the biggest business cost many organizations face in terms of. 5 00:00:19,105 --> 00:00:24,137 Lost work days, lost productivity, turnover, and that's just depression. 6 00:00:27,227 --> 00:00:29,297 Welcome to Passion and Profits Without Burnout. 7 00:00:29,627 --> 00:00:30,857 I'm your host, Jacob Moore. 8 00:00:31,457 --> 00:00:36,347 I'm a speaker, coach, childhood suicide loss survivor and filmmaker who left 9 00:00:36,352 --> 00:00:38,777 Hollywood to follow my heart of service. 10 00:00:39,332 --> 00:00:42,962 I've helped tens of thousands of people find the balance in their 11 00:00:42,962 --> 00:00:46,232 life between passion and profits. 12 00:00:46,292 --> 00:00:51,582 On the show, I'm gonna teach you how to build a trauma responsive, resilient, 13 00:00:51,587 --> 00:00:54,212 and impactful community and organization. 14 00:00:54,867 --> 00:00:56,667 All without burning out. 15 00:00:57,447 --> 00:00:58,377 Let's get started. 16 00:01:02,697 --> 00:01:04,197 Mike Bushman, welcome back. 17 00:01:04,257 --> 00:01:09,243 I'm excited to wrap up this three part episode on how to. 18 00:01:09,898 --> 00:01:13,378 Create a mentally healthy work environment. 19 00:01:13,978 --> 00:01:16,241 We've already talked about in part one. 20 00:01:16,278 --> 00:01:21,808 how to run ideal stress environments in part two, adjusting for individual minds. 21 00:01:21,811 --> 00:01:23,191 while in a supervisory role. 22 00:01:23,701 --> 00:01:28,921 During this segment, we're gonna talk about achieving stronger operational 23 00:01:28,951 --> 00:01:36,021 results, or soar as you call it, for those who are not yet convict. 24 00:01:36,436 --> 00:01:41,206 That they need to be running ideal stress environments and 25 00:01:41,206 --> 00:01:42,706 adjusting for individual minds. 26 00:01:43,576 --> 00:01:47,116 Mike, can you share what the stakes are here? 27 00:01:47,626 --> 00:01:54,256 Why is it important from an organizational perspective to make 28 00:01:54,256 --> 00:01:59,506 these adjustments for employees and to the culture of an organiz? 29 00:02:00,421 --> 00:02:06,271 Well, I think it starts with, you know, we know that the number one expense cost 30 00:02:06,361 --> 00:02:11,011 in most businesses is dealing with the lost productivity in their employees. 31 00:02:11,016 --> 00:02:12,361 And it ties into depression. 32 00:02:12,361 --> 00:02:16,981 So the World Health Organization has done studies that show that, you know, 33 00:02:17,101 --> 00:02:21,091 that is the biggest business cost many organizations face in terms of 34 00:02:21,541 --> 00:02:26,480 lost work days, lost productivity, turnover, and that's just depress. 35 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:32,636 And then you add anxiety, bipolar disorder, all the other, you know, P T S 36 00:02:32,641 --> 00:02:34,645 D, all the other mental health challenges. 37 00:02:35,275 --> 00:02:38,305 And pretty soon you're talking, you know, historically that was 38 00:02:38,305 --> 00:02:43,615 about 25% of the P population has a diagnosable mental health condition. 39 00:02:43,615 --> 00:02:43,705 Mm-hmm. 40 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:47,935 Of which only less than half are diagnosed and less than 41 00:02:47,940 --> 00:02:49,195 half of those are being treated. 42 00:02:49,195 --> 00:02:55,600 But, That's a pretty big part of your population that has some 43 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,470 particular challenge where how management interacts with them can 44 00:02:59,470 --> 00:03:02,680 either make them more productive or dramatically less productive. 45 00:03:02,860 --> 00:03:07,322 So making that, making these adjustments, running that ideal stress environment, 46 00:03:07,712 --> 00:03:11,822 adjusting for individual minds makes a big financial difference, you know. 47 00:03:13,037 --> 00:03:20,987 It's on the order to of several percent of, of earnings that is lost to just the 48 00:03:20,987 --> 00:03:25,367 mental health aspect of it, let alone getting into the productivity piece. 49 00:03:25,577 --> 00:03:25,937 Yeah, 50 00:03:25,937 --> 00:03:26,867 absolutely. 51 00:03:27,167 --> 00:03:31,127 And when you're talking about, you know, percentages of populations, I 52 00:03:31,127 --> 00:03:36,467 think something that I want to just make sure is, is clear to those who 53 00:03:36,467 --> 00:03:40,007 are listening is, you know, when, when. 54 00:03:40,727 --> 00:03:49,397 Talking about those who are actually diagnosed, those who are treated, it's, I, 55 00:03:49,397 --> 00:03:55,000 I think you said before, a quarter of the population, that we're working with here. 56 00:03:55,860 --> 00:04:02,460 Who need some type of accommodation, whether or not they have an a, d a plan. 57 00:04:02,730 --> 00:04:03,090 Right. 58 00:04:03,130 --> 00:04:03,650 Right. 59 00:04:03,780 --> 00:04:06,990 And that quarter of the population was actually pre pandemic. 60 00:04:07,230 --> 00:04:07,560 Mm-hmm. 61 00:04:07,620 --> 00:04:12,270 We know that depression and anxiety rates soared, almo in some cases 62 00:04:12,275 --> 00:04:16,636 nearly doubled among adults and certainly among kids, which has its 63 00:04:16,636 --> 00:04:18,466 translating effect on their parents. 64 00:04:18,526 --> 00:04:19,096 Of course. 65 00:04:19,846 --> 00:04:24,340 So, you know, it may be even a greater challenge than that is, in today's 66 00:04:24,430 --> 00:04:30,610 environment we're, we're still in recovery from pandemic in terms of the mental 67 00:04:30,615 --> 00:04:32,410 health challenges people are facing. 68 00:04:32,590 --> 00:04:32,920 Yeah, 69 00:04:32,980 --> 00:04:33,790 absolutely. 70 00:04:34,420 --> 00:04:36,070 And then we just look at. 71 00:04:36,700 --> 00:04:39,320 Normal life circumstances, right? 72 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:44,592 life is, has trauma inherent right in it, whether it's, you know, loss or, 73 00:04:44,922 --> 00:04:48,218 you know, grief that we're dealing with, the financial stressors. 74 00:04:48,278 --> 00:04:49,941 and, and certainly social dynamics. 75 00:04:50,001 --> 00:04:50,721 there's. 76 00:04:51,561 --> 00:04:58,581 There's a lot that people are dealing with outside of the workplace that of course 77 00:04:58,581 --> 00:05:02,061 they bring with them into the workplace. 78 00:05:02,061 --> 00:05:07,126 There's no, you know, work Jake and non-work. 79 00:05:07,126 --> 00:05:08,446 Jake, I'm just Jake. 80 00:05:08,476 --> 00:05:13,306 And, and what, what comes, you know, what, what affects me outside of the, of, of 81 00:05:13,306 --> 00:05:15,616 my work affects me inside of it as well. 82 00:05:15,826 --> 00:05:18,466 So we, you know, we're really talking about. 83 00:05:19,066 --> 00:05:22,254 Needing to pay attention to everyone. 84 00:05:22,284 --> 00:05:25,554 now whether or not we need to make accommodations is a, a different, 85 00:05:26,364 --> 00:05:27,444 you know, different situation. 86 00:05:27,444 --> 00:05:32,090 But, certainly we need to be cognizant of what, what's affecting people. 87 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:32,570 Right? 88 00:05:32,870 --> 00:05:33,230 Yeah. 89 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,599 And actually you raise a really critical point, There's been research done on 90 00:05:37,599 --> 00:05:42,579 hedge fund managers, individual hedge fund managers versus group hedge fund managers. 91 00:05:43,059 --> 00:05:47,379 Research done on CEOs versus board members, and what it shows 92 00:05:47,379 --> 00:05:51,499 is death of a family member, child, spouse, somebody close. 93 00:05:52,424 --> 00:05:57,159 For a CEO leads to as much as a 10% drop in earnings of that company. 94 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:57,489 Wow. 95 00:05:57,489 --> 00:06:02,379 In the year after, in the years after that death of a individual hedge 96 00:06:02,384 --> 00:06:07,029 fund manager re results in a drop in performance of that individual hedge fund. 97 00:06:07,479 --> 00:06:11,649 Now, when the hedge fund manager encounters a death and they're part 98 00:06:11,649 --> 00:06:15,939 of a collective group decision, there's no impact because the group 99 00:06:15,939 --> 00:06:19,869 around them makes a difference just as they showed with board members. 100 00:06:20,514 --> 00:06:23,874 You know, the board members can suffer the same kind of loss that A C E O would 101 00:06:23,874 --> 00:06:27,984 suffer, and there's no collective impact on the organization's performance. 102 00:06:28,374 --> 00:06:32,484 So I think one of the takeaways from that research and from some other research 103 00:06:32,484 --> 00:06:39,324 is that when you have somebody going through a a, a terrible loss, a grief, a 104 00:06:39,384 --> 00:06:44,034 struggle, That might be the time to get them more involved in group projects. 105 00:06:44,094 --> 00:06:44,454 Hmm. 106 00:06:44,505 --> 00:06:47,805 to take 'em away from that individual performance role where 107 00:06:47,810 --> 00:06:49,335 there's nobody supporting 'em. 108 00:06:49,340 --> 00:06:54,405 Because as we're going through these life difficulties, having a team around 109 00:06:54,405 --> 00:06:59,221 you, a supportive team, can make a real difference in your ability to cope. 110 00:06:59,221 --> 00:07:03,074 the oxytocin, release that we get from interacting with people we 111 00:07:03,074 --> 00:07:04,574 respect and care about mm-hmm. 112 00:07:04,874 --> 00:07:07,724 Can help to, you know, provide a little bit of. 113 00:07:09,339 --> 00:07:13,049 Positive brain chemistry that makes it just slightly easier to 114 00:07:13,049 --> 00:07:14,763 endure, some of those traumas. 115 00:07:14,763 --> 00:07:20,373 So I, I think there's actually a benefit to all employees looking at 116 00:07:20,373 --> 00:07:24,543 what they're experiencing and dealing with and maybe making modifications 117 00:07:24,548 --> 00:07:29,199 whenever you can, in how their work is assigned and what they focus on. 118 00:07:29,799 --> 00:07:30,289 Yeah. 119 00:07:30,289 --> 00:07:35,949 Mike, what I hear you saying is that the same approach that we take. 120 00:07:36,744 --> 00:07:43,944 Outside of work for, you know, healing, which includes surrounding ourselves with 121 00:07:44,034 --> 00:07:49,644 community, whether that be, you know, family or peer support, like-minded, you 122 00:07:49,649 --> 00:07:56,041 know, people or, our, our therapeutic relationships, that bringing that same 123 00:07:56,111 --> 00:08:00,821 idea into the workplace is imperative for. 124 00:08:02,156 --> 00:08:08,370 The effects of, you know, trauma or loss, that we might experience as well, right? 125 00:08:08,501 --> 00:08:09,461 absolutely. 126 00:08:09,461 --> 00:08:12,731 And I think whenever somebody's dealing with something that's just 127 00:08:12,731 --> 00:08:16,871 really painful and difficult, that that group support, that peer support, 128 00:08:16,871 --> 00:08:20,561 that community support, having a place that you feel like you belong. 129 00:08:21,081 --> 00:08:22,176 Can be really healing. 130 00:08:22,326 --> 00:08:22,416 Mm-hmm. 131 00:08:22,482 --> 00:08:26,592 and it, you know, you may not see it day one, but you definitely see it over time. 132 00:08:26,592 --> 00:08:30,222 So, you know, if there's a takeaway, you know, as we've looked at some 133 00:08:30,227 --> 00:08:34,332 of the adverse life event research is don't isolate those people. 134 00:08:34,332 --> 00:08:37,632 Don't put them in roles where they don't have anybody around them. 135 00:08:38,022 --> 00:08:41,622 You know, get them involved in a group project, even if their job 136 00:08:41,622 --> 00:08:45,972 requires them to be, you know, spend 90% of the time doing just 137 00:08:45,977 --> 00:08:48,162 individual at their computer work. 138 00:08:49,232 --> 00:08:52,833 That's the time you wanna assign them to get involved in something that, you 139 00:08:52,833 --> 00:08:55,293 know, has a, a bigger corporate role. 140 00:08:55,293 --> 00:09:00,465 Or just ask them to take on, an additional project as long as you can do it in a way 141 00:09:00,465 --> 00:09:02,385 that doesn't overwhelm them physically. 142 00:09:02,385 --> 00:09:06,776 And, because having that community around them definitely can be a 143 00:09:06,781 --> 00:09:08,896 difference in helping to reengage, re. 144 00:09:09,961 --> 00:09:12,121 Comfort them all at the same time. 145 00:09:12,361 --> 00:09:13,141 Absolutely. 146 00:09:13,741 --> 00:09:18,273 Mike, I'm reminded of my conversation with, Megan Rearden Jarvis, who 147 00:09:18,278 --> 00:09:20,595 is an expert in, grief and loss. 148 00:09:20,682 --> 00:09:21,767 and, and, she. 149 00:09:22,517 --> 00:09:26,742 Talked about this, culture that often happens, in the workplace 150 00:09:26,772 --> 00:09:31,338 and at large as well, where when someone experiences, some type of 151 00:09:31,338 --> 00:09:34,502 loss, oftentimes our instinct is to. 152 00:09:34,942 --> 00:09:35,902 To leave them alone. 153 00:09:35,902 --> 00:09:36,082 Right. 154 00:09:36,082 --> 00:09:37,192 We don't wanna bother them. 155 00:09:37,192 --> 00:09:39,649 We don't want to, you know, force ourselves upon them. 156 00:09:39,649 --> 00:09:44,449 We want to give them space and time to be able to process and, 157 00:09:44,449 --> 00:09:45,847 and do what they need to do. 158 00:09:45,863 --> 00:09:51,871 but in fact, what the research has shown is that those individuals actually, like 159 00:09:51,991 --> 00:09:54,421 you said, need community around them. 160 00:09:54,421 --> 00:09:59,828 They need people to come around them and, and to be there, not to necessarily. 161 00:10:01,103 --> 00:10:05,093 To talk about what's happening, but just to be present. 162 00:10:05,093 --> 00:10:05,163 Right? 163 00:10:05,177 --> 00:10:11,267 and that the effects of a, a loss of community actually exacerbate what, 164 00:10:11,304 --> 00:10:16,888 that loss, is and can lead to, some really detrimental effects in, in, 165 00:10:16,948 --> 00:10:19,213 you know, That sense of isolation. 166 00:10:19,213 --> 00:10:22,891 So, you know, just to reinforce what you're saying, it's, it's vitally 167 00:10:22,891 --> 00:10:26,959 important that we come together around, our coworkers and our, our, 168 00:10:27,085 --> 00:10:32,215 employees who are experiencing some type of, you know, traumatic or 169 00:10:32,215 --> 00:10:33,925 adverse experience in their life. 170 00:10:34,105 --> 00:10:34,315 Yeah. 171 00:10:34,315 --> 00:10:37,615 And I, I certainly learned over from my own experience with struggling 172 00:10:37,615 --> 00:10:41,245 with depression, my, my go-to response, and this is actually fairly 173 00:10:41,245 --> 00:10:44,935 normal for people who struggle with depression, is when I'm struggling. 174 00:10:45,820 --> 00:10:47,810 My natural instinct is to withdraw. 175 00:10:47,990 --> 00:10:52,790 And what I've learned is that's exactly when I need to reach out to my brothers, 176 00:10:52,790 --> 00:10:57,230 my friends, other people that I know I'm gonna have positive interaction with. 177 00:10:57,620 --> 00:11:01,130 Even though I might feel exhausted pretty quickly in dealing with 178 00:11:01,130 --> 00:11:04,180 that interaction, I need it and. 179 00:11:05,340 --> 00:11:09,275 That's the case in the workplace when we get, when we ha deal 180 00:11:09,275 --> 00:11:10,385 with something difficult. 181 00:11:10,865 --> 00:11:15,065 You know, the natural instinct of a lot of people is to try and step back when, 182 00:11:15,275 --> 00:11:18,665 and that's when others need to reach out and say, let's get you engaged. 183 00:11:18,742 --> 00:11:22,312 but to your point, it doesn't be have to be talking about their grief. 184 00:11:22,717 --> 00:11:26,167 It's just sometimes just being distracted by doing something 185 00:11:26,167 --> 00:11:26,617 else. 186 00:11:26,647 --> 00:11:26,917 Yep. 187 00:11:27,067 --> 00:11:28,237 Yeah, I think that's great. 188 00:11:28,237 --> 00:11:33,981 So, you know, bringing this into this idea of, achieving stronger operational 189 00:11:33,986 --> 00:11:40,820 results, what I'm hearing as a strategy here is, This idea of group work or 190 00:11:40,820 --> 00:11:43,154 group projects or group decision making. 191 00:11:43,154 --> 00:11:45,999 can you share a little bit more about that? 192 00:11:45,999 --> 00:11:48,850 You know, what's sort of the process for, doing that? 193 00:11:48,850 --> 00:11:51,700 Because I, I, I would imagine it can be a little bit tricky. 194 00:11:52,270 --> 00:11:57,550 You know, if someone's going through something then to, you know, say like, 195 00:11:57,730 --> 00:12:01,300 Hey, we're gonna, we're gonna take you off of this solo project, and now you've 196 00:12:01,300 --> 00:12:04,870 gotta work in a group and be babysat like that, that's not gonna feel good. 197 00:12:04,870 --> 00:12:05,170 Right. 198 00:12:05,410 --> 00:12:09,821 So how do you tactfully approach that situation to make them, you know, help 199 00:12:09,821 --> 00:12:13,348 them understand that, you know, this is something to, so that they feel supported? 200 00:12:13,558 --> 00:12:16,558 Yeah, I th I think a lot of it is just how you approach. 201 00:12:17,083 --> 00:12:20,267 It's, just saying, Hey, you know, we want to get you engaged. 202 00:12:20,267 --> 00:12:22,307 You've got a lot of value to the organization. 203 00:12:22,307 --> 00:12:25,877 Maybe start with saying, I wanna remind you that, you know, you're 204 00:12:25,882 --> 00:12:27,737 our top performing person at this. 205 00:12:27,737 --> 00:12:31,937 You're really great at how you interact with people and those skills. 206 00:12:32,617 --> 00:12:36,077 Are gonna be valuable if we can have you as part of this project for a while. 207 00:12:36,137 --> 00:12:36,227 Mm-hmm. 208 00:12:36,557 --> 00:12:38,837 And then, you know, if you can help us with this, you know, 209 00:12:38,837 --> 00:12:40,247 obviously we're gonna move back. 210 00:12:40,607 --> 00:12:43,877 What you don't want to do is make them feel unsettled about their 211 00:12:44,377 --> 00:12:46,187 security within the organization. 212 00:12:46,247 --> 00:12:46,547 Yeah. 213 00:12:46,637 --> 00:12:48,047 But just let them know this. 214 00:12:48,052 --> 00:12:53,327 No, this is, this is us respecting how valuable you are to the organization. 215 00:12:53,386 --> 00:12:54,581 and you don't want to treat it. 216 00:12:54,660 --> 00:12:57,270 you might not be able to handle doing this on your own. 217 00:12:57,270 --> 00:13:00,400 You wanna say, you know, we need you, to be engaged in this. 218 00:13:00,670 --> 00:13:03,490 And I know you've got a lot of difficulties in your life, but 219 00:13:03,730 --> 00:13:05,260 people need to be relied on. 220 00:13:05,620 --> 00:13:05,770 Mm-hmm. 221 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:07,300 They want to be needed. 222 00:13:07,570 --> 00:13:09,880 And when you've suffered some loss, knowing that you're 223 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:14,110 needed can help re-energize and provide that sense of purpose. 224 00:13:14,290 --> 00:13:14,500 Yeah. 225 00:13:14,680 --> 00:13:19,090 You know, the one caution, you know, and I think you've, we've talked about this 226 00:13:19,090 --> 00:13:21,700 in the past, is you can't overwhelm. 227 00:13:22,385 --> 00:13:25,945 You can't make it so burdensome that they're physically just exhausting. 228 00:13:25,945 --> 00:13:29,725 It's more than the they can handle, cuz that, you know, that can 229 00:13:30,225 --> 00:13:31,915 actually spiral the wrong direction. 230 00:13:32,095 --> 00:13:36,145 So you do have to pay attention to have I, have I just given you more 231 00:13:36,175 --> 00:13:41,005 with no resource or no time or am I giving you something different? 232 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,515 And giving you the time and capacity to take it on. 233 00:13:44,815 --> 00:13:46,225 Yeah, I, I appreciate that. 234 00:13:46,225 --> 00:13:49,945 And that reminds me of what you talked about in the last segment. 235 00:13:49,978 --> 00:13:58,318 adjusting for individual minds, this idea of, you know, longer term projects and 236 00:13:58,498 --> 00:14:04,468 that, that allow people to work at their capacity during any given time, I think 237 00:14:04,468 --> 00:14:08,248 is a really, like, it's a genius approach. 238 00:14:08,286 --> 00:14:08,989 because. 239 00:14:09,949 --> 00:14:15,349 You are, I think, doubling down on your investment in that employee 240 00:14:15,354 --> 00:14:20,689 by saying, Hey, here's something, a project that it's vitally 241 00:14:20,689 --> 00:14:22,219 important that you're involved with. 242 00:14:22,309 --> 00:14:26,029 And it's a long-term project that says to them that's, that's that, 243 00:14:26,389 --> 00:14:31,579 you know, affirmation that, Hey, we see you here in the future. 244 00:14:31,643 --> 00:14:33,053 and for the long run. 245 00:14:33,104 --> 00:14:33,344 right. 246 00:14:33,614 --> 00:14:37,694 But understanding that right now, because it's a long-term project. 247 00:14:38,714 --> 00:14:42,794 We can titrate the workload as necessary. 248 00:14:43,214 --> 00:14:46,493 And if there's a little, you know, less that, you're able to 249 00:14:46,493 --> 00:14:48,233 produce right now, that's okay. 250 00:14:48,593 --> 00:14:53,843 We can, we can focus on broad strokes right now and then get into more 251 00:14:53,843 --> 00:14:55,893 detailed, more intensive work later. 252 00:14:55,900 --> 00:14:58,900 and then if you are also involving. 253 00:14:59,620 --> 00:15:02,675 Others, to help, you know, share the decision making in the 254 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:07,985 workload, then you really have a, a beautiful balance of, you know, that 255 00:15:07,985 --> 00:15:10,279 long-term vision, or that long view. 256 00:15:10,489 --> 00:15:16,519 And also this group work that helps to actually, you know, reduce 257 00:15:16,519 --> 00:15:17,749 some of the burden on someone. 258 00:15:17,869 --> 00:15:20,029 So, I, I, I think that's a brilliant approach. 259 00:15:20,149 --> 00:15:21,019 Yeah, for sure. 260 00:15:21,259 --> 00:15:23,913 No, it's something that, Just trial and error. 261 00:15:23,971 --> 00:15:29,195 it made sense to me and tried it and it works and I can't guarantee it will 262 00:15:29,195 --> 00:15:33,065 work with everybody, but I know it works better than just leaving people isolated. 263 00:15:33,365 --> 00:15:33,665 Yeah, 264 00:15:33,815 --> 00:15:34,625 absolutely. 265 00:15:35,225 --> 00:15:40,400 Well, and when we're talking about, you know, This idea of, you know, 266 00:15:40,940 --> 00:15:45,260 achieving stronger operational results and, and how imperative it is as an 267 00:15:45,260 --> 00:15:48,230 organization to make these investments. 268 00:15:48,770 --> 00:15:53,945 I'm sort of, me personally and, and my skillsets, which I'm realizing 269 00:15:53,945 --> 00:15:56,495 might be slightly limited in this way. 270 00:15:56,500 --> 00:15:59,985 It, it just seems like you have to simultaneously. 271 00:16:01,670 --> 00:16:07,996 Your eye on, you know, the big picture and understand, a lot of dynamics. 272 00:16:08,070 --> 00:16:11,932 certainly, you know, the, the projects, both short and long term, 273 00:16:11,953 --> 00:16:14,323 the staffing and, and how they. 274 00:16:15,458 --> 00:16:20,437 Interact with, you know, these long-term, you know, goals and strategies, while 275 00:16:20,917 --> 00:16:26,527 simultaneously being focused on the individuals and those details and 276 00:16:26,532 --> 00:16:30,907 the minutiae of, you know, what's happening in those dynamics day-to-day. 277 00:16:31,327 --> 00:16:33,367 That's, that's a lot. 278 00:16:33,367 --> 00:16:33,817 That's. 279 00:16:35,062 --> 00:16:39,603 Really, I think, it, it, to me it seems a little daunting, to 280 00:16:39,603 --> 00:16:41,513 have to do both simultaneously. 281 00:16:41,518 --> 00:16:47,403 How, how were you able as a manager to, to really achieve that balancing act? 282 00:16:47,998 --> 00:16:51,003 Yeah, and, and the reality is you're not gonna get it right all the time. 283 00:16:51,063 --> 00:16:53,763 So this is all, you know, you make progress. 284 00:16:53,763 --> 00:16:58,593 You try and do the best that you can with what you know, but it's really not as 285 00:16:58,593 --> 00:17:01,443 time consuming as many people think it is. 286 00:17:01,443 --> 00:17:05,913 It's really just about even being aware of the concepts, which is why I think 287 00:17:05,913 --> 00:17:08,113 the rising aim, so training so valuable. 288 00:17:08,853 --> 00:17:12,093 If you haven't even thought of these conceptually, it's not even 289 00:17:12,093 --> 00:17:16,203 gonna cross your mind to make those adjustments for the individual mind. 290 00:17:16,203 --> 00:17:16,563 Sure. 291 00:17:16,803 --> 00:17:20,283 When you're aware of the concepts, I think a lot of these things 292 00:17:20,283 --> 00:17:21,633 come much more naturally. 293 00:17:22,053 --> 00:17:27,123 You know, a lot of our gut instinct tells us what the right answer is. 294 00:17:27,543 --> 00:17:31,743 If we've been exposed to language that says, trust your gut instinct because 295 00:17:31,923 --> 00:17:35,193 this does, this is an approach that makes sense, then you're gonna say, 296 00:17:35,223 --> 00:17:37,233 okay, I'm more likely to do it than. 297 00:17:38,323 --> 00:17:39,423 You didn't get it in your mba. 298 00:17:39,423 --> 00:17:41,373 I didn't get it in my MBA courses. 299 00:17:41,433 --> 00:17:41,913 Right. 300 00:17:42,003 --> 00:17:44,530 You know, we didn't talk about mental health management, at, 301 00:17:44,590 --> 00:17:46,240 in the, in the MBA program. 302 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,920 But if you've been exposed to the business side and the mental health side, you 303 00:17:50,925 --> 00:17:53,740 can see how, you know, brain capacity. 304 00:17:53,740 --> 00:17:58,420 Brain health has everything to do with the, ability of the employee 305 00:17:58,425 --> 00:18:00,100 to perform at a high level. 306 00:18:00,154 --> 00:18:03,964 having them engaged has everything to do with employee retention. 307 00:18:04,639 --> 00:18:10,308 With, you know, reducing those turnover costs with, not having lost work days 308 00:18:10,878 --> 00:18:15,528 with improving, you know, the interactions of the people inside the organization. 309 00:18:15,948 --> 00:18:20,178 And, you know, as we talked about, how many people struggle, you know, if you've 310 00:18:20,178 --> 00:18:24,858 got 25 out of a hundred people in an organization who have a diagnosable mental 311 00:18:24,858 --> 00:18:29,748 health condition at any given time, how many people does each employee touch? 312 00:18:30,048 --> 00:18:33,018 Well, usually, Several at least. 313 00:18:33,078 --> 00:18:33,288 Yep. 314 00:18:33,348 --> 00:18:38,028 So you've really affected the whole organization by not doing anything. 315 00:18:38,058 --> 00:18:41,808 So if you can make minor adjustments, it's not only improving the 316 00:18:41,808 --> 00:18:43,168 performance that one person. 317 00:18:43,773 --> 00:18:47,583 It's improving the performance of people around them who say, oh, you're 318 00:18:47,583 --> 00:18:49,053 holding this person accountable. 319 00:18:49,053 --> 00:18:50,553 They're performing at a high level. 320 00:18:50,613 --> 00:18:53,313 Yeah, this is a high performing organization. 321 00:18:53,493 --> 00:18:56,463 I need to perform at a better level to make sure I stay part of 322 00:18:56,463 --> 00:18:58,113 a high performing organization. 323 00:18:58,743 --> 00:19:03,903 If you've got an organization where people are not performing at their capacity, 324 00:19:04,353 --> 00:19:07,863 everybody around them sees, yeah, we, you can get away with stuff here. 325 00:19:07,893 --> 00:19:08,313 Sure. 326 00:19:08,343 --> 00:19:09,513 And you don't have to put in the. 327 00:19:09,589 --> 00:19:13,639 and so it has an effect of dragging down that entire organization in a way 328 00:19:13,939 --> 00:19:15,919 that might not be visible in one day. 329 00:19:16,609 --> 00:19:19,519 But if you look over time and the research that's been done 330 00:19:19,524 --> 00:19:20,569 that looks at it over time. 331 00:19:21,319 --> 00:19:22,819 We know it makes a difference. 332 00:19:23,059 --> 00:19:24,199 Yeah, absolutely. 333 00:19:24,709 --> 00:19:29,146 I, I appreciate that perspective, Mike, and, and this idea that, 334 00:19:29,236 --> 00:19:33,406 you know, we really can like that it's okay to make mistakes. 335 00:19:33,886 --> 00:19:38,350 That it is part of the process of, you know, being a manager, being a leader. 336 00:19:38,361 --> 00:19:40,462 you don't have to get it right and it's not, you're not 337 00:19:40,462 --> 00:19:41,712 gonna find it in a textbook. 338 00:19:41,717 --> 00:19:44,209 You're not gonna find it in a, in an MBA course. 339 00:19:44,209 --> 00:19:50,473 this is something that you have to, And practice in order to get, get good at, 340 00:19:50,713 --> 00:19:55,243 you know, the skillset of, you know, really making these, these adjustments. 341 00:19:55,248 --> 00:19:55,443 Right. 342 00:19:55,903 --> 00:20:00,374 And, one thing that I, you know, I, I appreciate about you and your 343 00:20:00,379 --> 00:20:07,850 approach, Mike, is, that just bringing awareness is, Enough of a start. 344 00:20:07,927 --> 00:20:14,105 and, and that for me yeah, for sure is really helpful just to, take the pressure 345 00:20:14,105 --> 00:20:16,925 off and to say, no, it, it's, okay. 346 00:20:16,925 --> 00:20:22,025 Let's, let's just start by learning this language of making 347 00:20:22,025 --> 00:20:27,015 accommodations and, you know, trying to understand what people's needs are. 348 00:20:27,079 --> 00:20:28,829 that's, that's where we go. 349 00:20:29,959 --> 00:20:30,304 That's great. 350 00:20:30,424 --> 00:20:31,154 Yeah, and 351 00:20:31,724 --> 00:20:35,764 it, it, it makes me think of a woman who worked for me who was a really 352 00:20:35,824 --> 00:20:41,794 good performer, and then over a period of several months became just really 353 00:20:41,944 --> 00:20:47,284 aggressive, maybe even verbally abusive to the point where we had to, we had 354 00:20:47,289 --> 00:20:49,594 to take her out of the organization. 355 00:20:50,434 --> 00:20:53,614 Had I been thinking about what was going on and that this was 356 00:20:53,614 --> 00:20:58,144 not normal for her and intervened earlier, I would've just asked you. 357 00:20:59,179 --> 00:21:00,544 Something's different about you. 358 00:21:01,084 --> 00:21:02,464 You seem much more upset. 359 00:21:02,764 --> 00:21:07,354 Is there something going on that it would be helpful for us to know and come to 360 00:21:07,354 --> 00:21:12,424 find out they were dealing with a really nasty personal situation that had a 361 00:21:12,424 --> 00:21:15,154 dramatic effect on, on her personality. 362 00:21:15,364 --> 00:21:15,694 Hmm. 363 00:21:15,844 --> 00:21:20,614 And had we been able to just help her get help with that personal situation. 364 00:21:21,199 --> 00:21:24,919 We wouldn't have had to go through all of the hassle of dealing with, 365 00:21:25,189 --> 00:21:28,999 you know, exiting her from the organization trying to replace her, 366 00:21:28,999 --> 00:21:33,319 which took actually a couple of times to find somebody who was as good. 367 00:21:33,649 --> 00:21:36,649 So there's, there's a selfish reason to do it. 368 00:21:36,654 --> 00:21:40,639 So when we talk about strengthening operations and results, it's about 369 00:21:40,639 --> 00:21:45,859 thinking selfishly beyond what, what makes me feel good today, and really 370 00:21:45,859 --> 00:21:50,029 what helps me in the long term and what helps the organization in the long. 371 00:21:51,244 --> 00:21:55,714 Because it's easy to just react to what bothers you today. 372 00:21:56,284 --> 00:21:56,434 Yep. 373 00:21:56,464 --> 00:22:01,084 In a way that helps relieve your tension, but does it fix the 374 00:22:01,084 --> 00:22:03,064 problem and fix the organization? 375 00:22:03,064 --> 00:22:07,864 And usually that gut instinct reaction, or not the instinct 376 00:22:07,869 --> 00:22:11,826 reaction, but the first, reaction might miss what's really happening. 377 00:22:12,876 --> 00:22:14,316 Yeah, absolutely. 378 00:22:14,321 --> 00:22:14,596 Yeah. 379 00:22:15,636 --> 00:22:15,936 Yeah. 380 00:22:15,996 --> 00:22:17,964 I, I think that's, really a. 381 00:22:18,809 --> 00:22:24,719 Just a, a really mindful approach to, you know, these, these challenges. 382 00:22:24,719 --> 00:22:27,999 And it, it sort of reminds me of couples therapy a little bit. 383 00:22:27,999 --> 00:22:32,283 you know, this idea of like, what, what do I ultimately want out of this situation? 384 00:22:32,283 --> 00:22:35,673 What do I ultimately want from this relationship? 385 00:22:35,678 --> 00:22:42,020 And what are the short term, you know, Maybe, sacrifices or 386 00:22:42,020 --> 00:22:47,030 compromises that I can make in order to achieve what I'm looking 387 00:22:47,030 --> 00:22:49,850 for long-term in this relationship. 388 00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:54,830 And I think the, the more that we bring that mentality to the workplace, the 389 00:22:54,835 --> 00:22:58,449 better off we're going to be and the better, managers, we're gonna be and the 390 00:22:58,449 --> 00:22:59,889 better results we're going to achieve. 391 00:23:00,069 --> 00:23:02,698 So I think that's fantastic, Mike. 392 00:23:02,698 --> 00:23:05,601 I, I like that perspective, and I think it's exactly 393 00:23:05,601 --> 00:23:05,991 right. 394 00:23:06,561 --> 00:23:07,341 Oh, thank you Mike. 395 00:23:07,402 --> 00:23:13,446 as we wrap up, this, three segment episode here, on Rise Am so can you 396 00:23:13,446 --> 00:23:18,187 share maybe final takeaway, what, what is it that, you want people to 397 00:23:18,247 --> 00:23:23,007 understand as they walk away from this and, maybe want to explore these 398 00:23:23,007 --> 00:23:25,357 more in-depth workshops on Rising Am. 399 00:23:26,022 --> 00:23:30,072 Yeah, I think that big takeaways is, you know, our brains are complex. 400 00:23:30,192 --> 00:23:33,102 You know, each one of us has 86 billion neurons. 401 00:23:33,462 --> 00:23:36,222 Each neuron has roughly 10,000 points of connection. 402 00:23:36,222 --> 00:23:41,082 There's at least a hundred different brain chemistries that help information 403 00:23:41,082 --> 00:23:45,192 move, determine even whether you can be happy in that moment. 404 00:23:45,582 --> 00:23:49,842 So, you know, the idea that people should at all times be able to, 405 00:23:50,712 --> 00:23:52,347 Make their brain work optimally. 406 00:23:52,407 --> 00:23:53,757 It just doesn't make sense. 407 00:23:53,757 --> 00:23:56,697 You know, nobody hesitates to get somebody to teach 'em how to 408 00:23:56,697 --> 00:23:59,097 play 88 keys on a piano, right? 409 00:23:59,157 --> 00:24:01,317 But we all hesitate to get a brain coach. 410 00:24:01,527 --> 00:24:04,647 If we normalize the concept of getting a brain coach, 411 00:24:05,097 --> 00:24:06,627 we're all gonna be better off. 412 00:24:06,927 --> 00:24:10,527 And if you think in, in organizations, how many organizations 413 00:24:10,797 --> 00:24:12,417 will hire an executive coach? 414 00:24:13,432 --> 00:24:17,652 For that high level, really expensive, high paid position, but 415 00:24:17,652 --> 00:24:22,092 then won't spend 400 bucks to help somebody who's a frontline employee 416 00:24:22,392 --> 00:24:26,352 succeed at a much higher level with the returns that on average are 417 00:24:26,792 --> 00:24:29,109 $1,800 for the $400 investment. 418 00:24:29,124 --> 00:24:33,624 so, you know, we have to think of it in terms of there's a return here. 419 00:24:34,454 --> 00:24:38,169 And we're helping this person, you know, perform at their best. 420 00:24:38,439 --> 00:24:41,949 We're not trying to say that you shouldn't get rid of poor performers. 421 00:24:42,399 --> 00:24:44,589 Every organization has poor performers. 422 00:24:44,709 --> 00:24:48,609 I had people who were just in the wrong roles and our company didn't 423 00:24:48,609 --> 00:24:52,629 have the right roles, who went on to other organizations and really 424 00:24:52,629 --> 00:24:55,989 succeeded, and they stayed friends because, you know, we talked about 425 00:24:56,169 --> 00:24:57,669 here's what you're really good at. 426 00:24:57,849 --> 00:24:59,019 That's not what we need. 427 00:24:59,319 --> 00:25:00,879 So how do we get you. 428 00:25:01,374 --> 00:25:03,954 To move to a job where you're doing the things you're really good at 429 00:25:04,554 --> 00:25:09,085 and you know, you, you can help the employee, while helping the business 430 00:25:09,090 --> 00:25:12,475 because then you're replacing them in that case with a better employee. 431 00:25:12,745 --> 00:25:17,155 But most of the talent that you need is already inside the organization. 432 00:25:17,845 --> 00:25:22,075 And if you just make minor adjustments, Very simple adjustments. 433 00:25:22,075 --> 00:25:25,645 In some cases, sometimes a little more complex, but those simple adjustments 434 00:25:25,645 --> 00:25:30,595 have returns that are many times what it costs to, to implement that. 435 00:25:31,015 --> 00:25:34,735 And you know, from a manager's standpoint, you may have to 436 00:25:34,735 --> 00:25:36,865 Inge invest several minutes. 437 00:25:37,405 --> 00:25:37,725 Mm-hmm. 438 00:25:37,765 --> 00:25:42,865 In, you know, meeting out the assignments as the person can handle it, or a couple 439 00:25:42,865 --> 00:25:47,565 of hours and listening to, presentation a couple of times, you know, that you 440 00:25:47,565 --> 00:25:52,275 might not otherwise want to, but when you compare that time to what you save 441 00:25:52,275 --> 00:25:57,345 by having better work, having lower turnover, having engaged employees Yeah. 442 00:25:57,345 --> 00:26:00,705 Who are performing at a high level, the returns are just significantly. 443 00:26:01,735 --> 00:26:02,985 Than whatever you invest in it. 444 00:26:03,465 --> 00:26:04,695 Yeah, absolutely. 445 00:26:05,115 --> 00:26:10,791 And Mike, I'll link in the show notes here, where people can, learn more about 446 00:26:10,791 --> 00:26:13,871 you and this, this program Rise Ames. 447 00:26:13,871 --> 00:26:17,581 So, and, you know, that's something that I would encourage, you know, all of our 448 00:26:17,581 --> 00:26:19,531 listeners to do is, you know, really. 449 00:26:20,031 --> 00:26:24,466 That investment, you know, individually and, you know, at organizationally 450 00:26:24,886 --> 00:26:28,943 to, just help ensure that everyone across, you know, the entire culture 451 00:26:29,003 --> 00:26:33,464 of of a company is, is speaking the same language and on the same page. 452 00:26:33,493 --> 00:26:38,279 like you said, we all need that brain coaching and, and that 453 00:26:38,279 --> 00:26:41,369 shouldn't be something that's just reserved for the C-suite. 454 00:26:42,179 --> 00:26:43,049 Absolutely. 455 00:26:43,259 --> 00:26:44,519 Well, Mike, thank you so much. 456 00:26:44,519 --> 00:26:48,346 This has been, invaluable and I really appreciate your time and, 457 00:26:48,346 --> 00:26:49,920 and just the great work that you do. 458 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:50,550 Thank you. 459 00:26:50,790 --> 00:26:51,510 Thank you, Jake. 460 00:26:51,510 --> 00:26:54,570 And as you know, as I've told you, I've always enjoyed working with 461 00:26:54,570 --> 00:26:57,990 you and love what you contribute to the world and to the community. 462 00:26:57,990 --> 00:27:02,104 And, just, look forward to continuing to work with you whenever we get a. 463 00:27:02,599 --> 00:27:03,289 Likewise. 464 00:27:07,969 --> 00:27:10,879 Thanks so much for listening to Passion and Profits Without Burnout. 465 00:27:11,299 --> 00:27:14,269 I hope that you found some impactful takeaways, and if you 466 00:27:14,269 --> 00:27:15,949 did, I'd love to hear from you. 467 00:27:16,339 --> 00:27:20,629 Share a screenshot on your ig story, tag me or send me a quick message. 468 00:27:20,929 --> 00:27:24,409 This show is for you, so any feedback is welcomed. 469 00:27:24,559 --> 00:27:27,139 Hey, and make sure you're also subscribed to the show so you 470 00:27:27,139 --> 00:27:28,729 don't miss any of our new episodes. 471 00:27:29,059 --> 00:27:31,579 And if you could take a few minutes to leave me a five star. 472 00:27:32,334 --> 00:27:33,324 That'd be greatly appreciated. 473 00:27:34,104 --> 00:27:36,294 Thanks for listening and be well.