[00:00:00] Nina Endrst: Hi, I'm Nina Endrst.

[00:00:05] Anna Toonk: I'm Anna Toonk.

[00:00:06] Nina Endrst: Welcome to How To Be Human.

[00:00:08] Anna Toonk: A podcast that explores the common and often confusing themes of humanness.

[00:00:12] Nina Endrst: In this episode, Anna and I discuss trust.

[00:00:15] Anna Toonk: Take a seat, clear your mind, and let's chat.

[00:00:22] Nina Endrst: Hello? Hello. It's fucking gray. It's fucking gray day 75. It's gray

[00:00:30] Anna Toonk: outside. It is very gray. And I, before we started recording, I was telling Nina about how much it confuses my body. And. You know, anytime I start to get like fancy and like, you know, think I'm somebody, there's nothing like your body being confused.

That it's a little bit darker. One day to humble you and being like, I am nothing. If not a simple animal.

And it was like, oh, you think you're fancy? Huh? Nope. You're not the you're confused that it's a little bit darker.

[00:01:14] Nina Endrst: That's actually an interesting. Piece of what we're talking about today with just trust, right? Trusting that your body will tell you when.dot, dot it's time to do something, not do something flow down, speed up, trust somebody not trust somebody.

[00:01:34] Anna Toonk: It's funny. I was thinking about. You know, preparing for today. And I have some definitions for us. And I was thinking about like, I mean, I don't think it surprises anybody, anyone who knows me or has listened to any of this and I have trust issues. And I was like, what do I really. What do I trust and something we're thinking about and part of what this episode is actually going to kick off for our community and for all of y'all is the whole month of March on the soul unity.

We're going to be examining the topic of trust. As of right now, we're still figuring out what that means, but we can tell you that. That's what we're going to be doing. There will be a themed months. What that means, what it looks like. I don't know. Why don't you state, you know, Nancy, we'll all be so excited together about that, but I've been thinking a lot about, about it and what do I trust like and what do I think about it?

And yeah, the bod in nature were two things that kept coming back to of like, ultimately when I feel really confused or whatever, it's like, yeah, I do, you know, How often do you debate with someone? I mean, you're probably not as person, but I feel like with other text chains of women were like, I'm just so tired today.

I don't know why, you know, versus just being like, you're allowed to be tenured.

[00:02:51] Nina Endrst: I'm the one saying my husband does that all the time. He's like, oh, it's so weird. I'm tired. I'm like, It's not weird. I'm like, you need to stop saying it's weird. He's busy constantly. You

[00:03:03] Anna Toonk: know, he's either

[00:03:05] Nina Endrst: chopping wood or cooking or like running an errand.

And I am not that way. I just, I don't have, I don't have it

[00:03:13] Anna Toonk: me. No, you and I were like parked on the sofa, which was perfect. And, and crying to a documentary or, or laughing at movies and going, yeah. Sonic and pretending to chase my own, not while he would like come in and be like, I made a whole table.

We're like, we're being emotionally devastated. So

[00:03:37] Nina Endrst: I had like 17 snacks today. Like we did homeschool, but we were just, we're just like chilling. We walked outside for a minute mile. I was like, yeah, let's go back inside. Really we've just been out for two minutes. He's like, my clothes are wet, by the way.

They're water resistant. I was like, I don't know that you're going to be a skier, honey. And he me he's like, my clothes are wet. I want to be naked. Like, let's go back inside. I'm like, okay, fair enough. Yeah, totally. I think that's a huge part of our culture is how shocking and also thinking something's wrong immediately wrong.

If you're tired, like cancer.

[00:04:15] Anna Toonk: It's so true. And I mean, as someone who had cancer, like honestly, I mean, I was 26 and thought I was tired, then little did I know I would get into my forties and really learned what being tired was about. But yeah, there's nothing. There's nothing wrong. Okay. So I have, I've two definitions for us.

Well, I have a lot of definitions, but because I find sometimes when we choose these words, it's kind of funny. Like whether it's Oxford or it's Merriam or whoever this is, or I feel like sometimes their definitions are like, I don't know, trust is, you know, to trust and you're like, guys, that's

[00:04:57] Nina Endrst: not actionable.

You tell me.

[00:05:00] Anna Toonk: It's

[00:05:00] Nina Endrst: like, what do we like? You know, look it up.

[00:05:04] Anna Toonk: They're like, you know, it's like when you trust, if you're like, aha. And what does that mean? And they're like, I mean, it's trusting and you're like, you're just giving me different forms of it. Were you high when you

[00:05:14] Nina Endrst: wrote this?

[00:05:17] Anna Toonk: Well, it's funny. I was like laughing with my therapist about that, about like, you know, I was telling her about having, you know, taking a high dose edible and having me.

And she was like, we know you don't need edibles to have a breakthrough. And I go, I understand. But I overserved myself and really went on a journey and she's like, how much did you take. 80 milligrams. She's like, oh dear God. I was like, no, Christina, I'm only telling you I went somewhere and she's like, I'm actually really impressed.

You were productive and did a lot. I was like, it did something to my add brain. Like, I don't know. Cause I agree. I was like, there's so many times I've thought I had deep thoughts, stoned, and then re-read them. And it's like chicken nuggets. Good. You know, and I'm playing catch up. I go, wow. So transcended Ana.

Okay. But so Oxford this time has for us definitions from Oxford languages, trust now a firm belief in the reliability, truth, ability, or strength of something or someone. Law and arrangement whereby a person, a trustee holds property as its nominal owner for the good of the one or more beneficiaries example I trust was set up verb.

I believe in the reliability, truth, ability or strength of, I should never have trusted her. I think we know that the Oxford people had some stuff. Archaic allow credit to a customer. All persons are forbid to trust. Stay alert. Okay. Then our peeps over at Merriam Webster, they have for us essential meaning of trust, a belief that someone or something is reliable, good, honest, effective, et cetera.

Our relationship is founded on mutual love and trust to an arrangement which someone's property or money is legally held or managed by someone else or by an organization such as a bank for, for usually a set period of time. Okay. Full definition of trust, internet, blah, blah, blah, assured reliance on the character ability, strength, or truth of someone or something.

One in which confidence is placed. I thought that was helpful because it started to get us somewhere. Trust is a verb from Merriam-Webster Webster to rely on the truthfulness or an accuracy of believe. But I felt like when I was looking at stuff, the one that I thought. I felt the best was assured reliance on the character ability, strength, or truth of someone or something, or one in which confidence is placed.

Because I feel like I don't know about for you, but I think it's hard for me to trust. Deeper level, but on a surface level, I think I'm pretty good at sort of, I mean, I think sometimes I almost come across as like naive or gullible or something because I tend to take people like at their word, you know, like if that's what you're telling me, then by all means, you know, that's what I'm going to go with.

And I feel like. Some of that's because my relationship I've always been sort of like the person pointing things out and like, it didn't always go well. So like a friend of mine, uh, old friend, My mom all the time used to be like, he's gay, he's gay. And I was like, I mean, he's not saying he his mom, so, um, I'm not going to go with that or assume it, you know?

And she was like, yes, he is. And I was like, I don't know. So then fast forward, many years later, he comes out and she's like, I told you, and I was like, you kind of missed the point. Like if he didn't identify or see himself that way at that point, then like, what good was it to sort of like. Really pursue the, like the truth in a way.

So I've found, I think sometimes like, as someone who really gravitates to jus the truth and seeks it, and it's sort of like always sort of concerned with like, what's true or what's in reality, what's not blah, blah, blah. It's been interesting to me that I then have this like, kind of tricky relationship with like, just trusting.

[00:10:00] Nina Endrst: So, yeah, I think it's interesting that you said that people would, you know, see that about you or if they've listened to this, I don't agree with that. I mean, I think that you're definitely, I think it's hard to regain your trust is what I think.

[00:10:16] Anna Toonk: Hmm. That's interesting maybe. Yeah. I think that's what I said, Anna.

It's word of God. Yeah. It probably, it probably is to be honest, you know, I think because I also think like just dishonesty. It's tricky. Like sometimes we're being dishonest, like it's not intentional, you know? And I think as I've gotten older, it's been hard for me to know sometimes when someone was like truly being deliberate and like being deceptive or, you know, being malicious maybe, or it was like calculated in some way versus like they just fucked up.

Like they were just being a human, you know, like self to see, you

[00:10:57] Nina Endrst: know, just such a huge part of why. Lied to themselves and there by others, you know, for

[00:11:07] Anna Toonk: sure. And I had, uh, I dated a dude that was, was, he was real big into self deceit. And I mean, some, yeah, some could argue it was his favorite thing, you know?

And he, he taught me a lot about that, that I was like, my God, he's like fucking lying to me. And then I was like, oh, he's not, he's lying to himself. So of course he's lying to me by default.

[00:11:29] Nina Endrst: Yeah. And you know, it's funny that you bring that up. So I remember being so upset when you know, really it was one ex-boyfriend in particular, broke up with me.

I, I was, I was convinced I could like control it and make him see what was there. Thank God I didn't, by the way. But in the moment I remember him telling me the truth, which was like, I'm not up to the task where I'm, I don't feel like. I'm the guy for you. And I, what I didn't realize in that moment was he was actually being decent.

He was becoming a really shitty boyfriend. Do you know? Because he was lying to himself while we were together, pretending he could be in it that way. So when he told me the truth, I didn't necessarily want to hear it, but. It did, you know, build some sort of weird trust though, you know, instead of him staying and pretending he was being honest with himself, then he was being honest with me.

So I do appreciate that. And I think what I've experienced a lot of is a lot of people may not like me in the moment, but I know that they trust me.

[00:12:39] Anna Toonk: Hmm, that's interesting. I tell the

[00:12:42] Nina Endrst: truth and I've always been a straight shooter, you know? So when people I've found when certain people don't, it's a pattern that when people don't necessarily want to be seen or tell.

The truth about something, maybe they haven't even worked that out. I don't think it's conscious. I don't think they're like, oh, I can't call Nina. I mean sometimes, but I think there's an avoidance a lot of times, because for, for people when they don't want to see the other person on the, when they don't want to be witnessed by the person on the other side, you know, and they can continue lying to themselves in that can, that can come off flaky.

You know, this isn't just in my life. It's just what I've witnessed too. And humans. Maybe you're avoiding someone or maybe you're not calling them back and that's within your right. Of course, as a person. But I think that at the element of trust is interesting because often it's not about you, it's about them not wanting to, you know, come clean about something.

[00:13:41] Anna Toonk: Yeah. I, I mean, I try when I'm doing that, cause I definitely will to call myself out and be like, It's fair. If you don't want to talk to, like, I have a friend who, anytime you mentioned something that you're, she's going to come at you with like 475 questions and that's cool. It's great. I appreciate her brain.

I'm not always in the mood. You know, or I'm not always a lawyer. No, but I think she missed her calling. It would have been a great one. Yeah. Because, but sometimes I think what she misses and I think it comes from a, I think it comes from a good place for sure. But it's like, I don't know. Sometimes I just want to be fucking excited about something or sometimes I'm just telling you an idea.

I don't need you to ask me, like, you know, or make me do like a PowerPoint. Presentation for it's like viability, you know, it's like

[00:14:39] Nina Endrst: totally kills the boner.

[00:14:41] Anna Toonk: Oh, such a boner killer. And I'm just like you're. And it also, I think, starts to get, make me get a little like riled up where I'm like, does she think I'm an idiot?

Did she think I'd have thought of that? This stuff, which is all my thing is shit. You know, like I'm, I'm, that's not what's happening. And I've learned to just have to be like, Ooh, I totally relate to that. Yeah. Like I had to just be like, hi, I appreciate you're demonstrating that you care, but I don't, I I'm not in the Q and a phase yet.

You know, I've just had learned to like, be more honest. It's interesting though, what you like? I think that that's a valid point. I do struggle to like trust again for sure. But I think some of what relates to that is often when trust is broken, people don't want to. And that is a big, big thing for me, that goes all the way back to my childhood.

Like most of our wounds we deal with as adults where there was a lot of broken trust and it would never. Be dealt with, you know, it would just be like, oh, let's just, you know, kind of wait until the energy dissipates or let's, you know, a lot of avoidance, a lot of denial, a lot of that stuff. So I think for me it became a real survival tactic.

If someone wasn't trustworthy, I was just like, bye. You know, and I had to learn as an adult like that also. It doesn't always serve me, you know? And I mean, if you want to have meaningful relationships with people, you need to know how to repair trust. You know, you need to learn how to trust again. But I do have a hard time with that.

If we can't talk about like, what happened, you know, and people hate that they don't want to talk about it, you know? And I'm like, good. You know, like that's, that's, that's a deal.

[00:16:36] Nina Endrst: I mean, personally, that's a deal breaker for me. I'm very forgiving and I can rebuild, but I need clear communication about. What happened?

And I also need accountability.

[00:16:49] Anna Toonk: Yes, yes. Accountability. I mean, you and I both had Papas that, you know, drank too much. And I think that that also plays a part in it where for me, there was never any accountability about that.

It's not that it's, it's not that it's the ways that it is just like,

[00:17:15] Nina Endrst: you know, you know, I like to a little

[00:17:17] Anna Toonk: pre-teen, you know, I feel like came out. I didn't know. My dad drank.

[00:17:22] Nina Endrst: I mean, I don't know if I've told this story here. I think I have, when he collapsed in the kitchen, that's how I found out I was out of college.

Like I brought my boyfriend over to. And he kept telling the same story. And I was like, yeah, I've already heard this story dad, but he always did that. And then I was like, he seems a little at all. Yeah. Fucked up. And then I just heard a crash in the kitchen and I was like, what the fuck? And I went in and he was laid out and he, he got a little defensive, you know, obviously, and it was like, nothing's wrong because I pulled him aside and I was like, what's up to his.

I think it was not even a week had gone by and he called me. I mean, obviously it was a long time coming. My dad didn't live. He lived in New York, but then he moved to LA when I was a teenager for a long time, like, uh, I mean, 13, he came back when I was 19, which are very formative years, you know, I'm like he got back and I was like, Hey bro, like high five thoughts on

[00:18:21] Anna Toonk: that choice.

[00:18:22] Nina Endrst: Yeah, same. I mean, I was in college by the time he went, he came back. It's taken me a lot to. You know, still working on it, rebuild trust after that, because I was like, yeah, I remember the time that I was like a suicidal teenager and you took a job elsewhere. Yeah. And you pieced out the country, like, except for, I didn't say it that nicely, but you know, for a long time, it, that definitely bled into, obviously my issues with men, which by the way, I had no idea.

I had those until, until I was like, oh my God, I felt like I woke up one morning and was like, I have daddy issues, like what is happening, but, you know, taking accountability for. How I trust other people or don't was a huge part of my healing and growth and, you know, mending fences or whatever, because people can break your heart all fucking day long and they will, you know, people lie to themselves, lied to you, but at some point what, I don't know how your parents were, but I have a big.

Trigger point when it comes to victim mentality and not a huge fan. It's like not on the top of my list of qualities, but I was so focused and still am. Not being in that state of mind, you know? Yeah. It's sometimes we are actually victims of things, right.

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New classes are added weekly. Uh, I mean, honestly, I mean, my therapist would say all the time when I first started seeing her, like, well, you were a victim, you're a victim. You were like a victim of, or whatever. And I was like, I'm not a victim, I'm not a victim. You know, I, and I had gone so far the other direction that I wasn't really like feeling same, anything, you know, like I wasn't really feeling the enormity of any experience.

So yeah, you can definitely try not to. Fall into victim hood. You can like go the other way and like denier experience. But, so I grew up Catholic and my mom who, you know, is a real, real weirdo, grew up in the south, go to mass. She would walk up the hill and go to the Catholic church and then join her family to go to the Methodist church after.

And as soon as she turned 18, she converted to Catholicism. And what a rebel. Yeah. It's so weird to me, but like what, you know, so, and my dad supposedly. Converted like in the Navy or something. But I said to my mom, I was like, I fully think dad lied to you. Just don't like, you know, cause she wanted to get married in the Catholic church.

And he was like, oh yeah, I'm that? And she's like, oh my God, you're probably right. And I was like, cause I mean the Catholic church kind of like, you know, keeps track of everything at this point, I would say, um, I mean, I don't care enough to say, like, I'm not Catholic, you know, but I don't even know. I mean, thankfully for me, I didn't go to Catholic school.

I feel like I got just enough Catholicism to be into like the Latin and all the ritual, but not enough to like, be scarred emotionally from it. What did you just like

[00:22:16] Nina Endrst: drop in for five seconds? I mean,

[00:22:18] Anna Toonk: moving to, well, moving to England, there's not a lot. The Catholic churches there was, you know, like one, we went to occasionally, but like it's church of England.

So I kind of lucked out by just moving that my mom was like, oh, it's going to be really hard to like, keep up the same level of Catholicism. Yeah. And my dad was like, what's that sleeping on Sundays? Okay. You know, like it just sort of fell off, but I do believe in God. And this is something that you and I have talked about a little bit,

[00:22:50] Nina Endrst: dude.

God, like a Catholic God, like a gun.

[00:22:54] Anna Toonk: I think I don't, well, that's my thing with religion, like religions manmade, you know? So I don't believe in any of that. Like, I think the Bible was the first like channels, work of art, you know, like, right. Do

[00:23:07] Nina Endrst: you think the Bible is.

[00:23:09] Anna Toonk: Really in the sense of, I think it's some kind of collected stories.

Do I think it's a documentary? They were like, no, but like, I mean, if you look in like the Koran, like they mentioned Jesus, like there's all this overlap of like, do I think there were some of these people on the earth at some point and people were taking notes. Yes. You know, but like, uh, lots of out son of God, like, I don't know.

That's when it starts, you believe you're the body of

[00:23:39] Nina Endrst: whatever you believe seeing the body of Christ. I don't know. That's,

[00:23:44] Anna Toonk: what's hilarious to me. These people will debate like abortion and like rights. And then they're like, that's right. I take the body of Christ and drink his blood every. It's like why, you know, like somebody made some joke on Twitter though.

That was cracking me up. That was like by 20, 23, we'll be able to post me communion, wafer. It was like, we were really buddy, but I do think believing in something larger than myself helps me. Trust and helps me trust life. Like I think at this point I like to roll my mom up. I tell her I'm a pagan, but I mean, I do believe like, you know, one of my very good friends is Hindu and I've learned a lot about Hinduism and I've been reading a lot about Buddhism lately and all this stuff.

And. I find it, it makes them, I mean, look at what we do for a living, like look at taro and stuff. Like I, I understand the appeal of religion in terms of this system that people claims tells you what life is, how to live it and what to expect. So the line, I guess he appeal of that, you know, like I get the appeal of something that sort of says, if you'll do things this way, we promise you a good life, you know?

And if it's not good in this one, don't worry, you have the eternal life. Like, that's a pretty sexy promise, you know, but I do, when I think about like, if you really sit and think about for a second, we're recording this podcast and then like zoom out. Like what earth looks like. And like we're on a rock floating through like space.

Is insane to me. Like there has to be something that created that, like, I think in terms of God, God's up, whatever, it's something that's beyond a human brains comprehension. I just don't think you'll get to know until you check out and then you get the, you know, get to know what it is, but believing in something bigger than myself, you know, like whether you want to call it nature, the planet, God, whatever I think helps me trust when I feel.

I don't know, maybe when I have like an existential crisis where I'm like, what the fuck am I doing with my life? Or what am I doing here? I'm like, you know what, it's a miracle. Any of us are how magical anything is on this planet in life. Yeah. I

[00:26:07] Nina Endrst: think I agree. I, I have a very. Strong distrust of organized religion of any kind, but I believe, and always have believed in something bigger.

You know, I just don't, I don't understand the value personally. And beyond that, I think it's dangerous to subscribe to any limited way of thinking, you know, in terms of, you know, who's controlling this like week, you can do this and you can do that. And it's, it's just, I don't find it. In any way, believable number one, but I also find it dangerous.

So, but as far as trust in the universe, you know, how do you cultivate that? How do you tap into that? I think it's things that are from, you know, very, from really small, like learning how to breathe there. There's something so powerful about connecting to the rhythms of nature when you're breathing or just being.

In like, so embodied and so centered when you're taking deep, full breaths. That makes me feel like I'm zooming out a little bit because we can get so stuck in just the moment. We're not hearing other people or we're worrying about something that that's a small way. I like to just connect to something bigger.

Also looking at. My child always helps me be like, well, something's happening because I also know in my body that he and trust that he is here for me and I'm here for him, you know? Like there's a reason why we're deeply connected. He starting to say things to them. Like that. I know he, we haven't taught him and just make me believe that he's been here before and that we know each other and things like that.

But I feel like that also helps in when you're, when you're going through, when we are going through a pain of like a breakup or a friendship or something doesn't work out in career, just trusting in. What's meant for you will not pass you by, you know, and sometimes that's a very, really, very, truly, deeply hard to believe, especially when it, yeah.

There's so many people out there who are suffering. And I really wanted to talk about this too. How do we trust in our highest good or a greater power? Like how do people look around? Right. And they're like, no, some like, God is good. You know, I believe that in whatever form, but then why are people homeless?

Why are people starving? Why does war keep happening? Why can not, why can't we get our shit straight? You know,

[00:28:55] Anna Toonk: as humans don't. I don't

[00:28:58] Nina Endrst: know, because some of it just feels so fucking unfair, you know? Like why in some countries like, yes. Right. For sure. But where is like divine intervention, you know, like haven't you been saved before?

I know I have from my fucking self or like other humans, you know, like there was a, there was, I will never forget this. There was in high school, there was a boy and a girl. I wasn't even really good friends with them at all, but I was friends with another girl. Who's like, let's go to this basketball game with them.

I'm like, bitch, I don't watch basketball and we're going to get drunk before. So we didn't go. And that night she was driving the car, the guy was in the front seat. She was going down a windy road. She crashed, he flew out of the car and he's. And she lived and they were best friends and I didn't talk about it.

It wasn't like I was supposed to be in the car, like those disaster junkies, but I always thought about that in the back of my mind. Like, why didn't I go, you know, why there's something in you in those moments? That's like, don't go that way or don't go to that party or. Blah, blah, blah. I believe that that is divine intervention in a lot of ways, but I don't understand.

And I don't think I ever fully will. Why. There are people in some places in the world who will never have enough food, have a stable government. Neither do we bitches where this close to just totally

[00:30:36] Anna Toonk: crumbling

well, I think there's this equate, like I think some of it's that you can. Only equate it's like you, you can't just make the model, like essentially the west. Yeah. Also religions would say it's because we have free will you know, which I think is also this like nice, you know, little escape hatch that religion's built in of like, why isn't God, or, you know, whatever available at like, you know, tension to field, you know, complaints to the manager.

And it's like, because you have free will because, you know, after the seven days were done and God was resting after creating the universe, like. They were done and it's like, well, that's awfully convenient. But I think like I've been reading a lot of Buddhist philosophy that honestly, I don't really understand a lot of it.

Cause it's, it's so incredibly complex in its simplicity, but essentially a lot of it is like, You know, like your suffering comes from attachment and you're suffering and like life is suffering. And that if you'll like release this idea that like life just has to be good. That release is so much like of your struggle with it.

And I do think there's some truth to that. And then I was listening to. The dailies episode that focused on the work of Dr. Pauline boss who really devoted her study and work to ambiguous loss and has a book that's just come out, especially cause her she's like in her eighties. And I love that she's been working.

You know, for 60 years and her work is now like people she's like super in demand because she sort of, you know, like w because of her work around ambiguous loss and the pen, Demi, and now people kind of being like, oh, she believes that closure's a bit of a myth. And she's like, we give ourselves closure.

Like it doesn't come from outside. She's like, I think if we could learn to live, you know, rather than being like, why does this happen? Or why did this happen to me? Or you don't like, why does this person get this? And dah, dah, dah, dah. She's like, if we can learn to live in ambiguity and learn to embrace ambiguity.

You don't, we'll all be a lot happier versus like either this needs to happen or that needs that, you know, she's like this black and white is what causes us so much suffering and. It's really interesting to me because like most of us are pretty committed to not suffering. I literally have a fire going and I'm under my electric blanket.

Like I want to be a toasty bitch. You know, like my life is great. And yet I think of the ways in which if I would release attachment or I would just trust or I would, whatever how much. Stress I could alleviate from my life. You know, you, and I've talked about it off pod, but I've been talking or thinking a lot about expectations and how often I have these expectations that like, I haven't even acknowledged myself much less expressed to the other person.

And then, you know, something doesn't happen or whatever. And I'm like, You know, wham, BU and then I'm like, well, it's kind of on you cause you have the expectation, you know? And I think for me, sometimes it's easier to like trust the universe or trust things or trust life or not fully convert into pessimism.

When I remembered there's no guarantee that everything's going to work out, you know, there is no guarantee. So like what can I do to make myself okay. In that, you know, there's no guarantee that. You know, tons of money and have the most love and all these things in our life. So what can we do if that doesn't happen?

I think so many times, like capitalism has told us to like trust capitalism and that's where we get confused capitalism. Isn't going to deliver happiness, you know, or, or give you something or give you something to trusted. You know, it's not a Costco. Wouldn't that be amazing. Fucking

[00:35:00] Nina Endrst: cough.

[00:35:01] Anna Toonk: Oh, I fucking hot Costco hate.

I

[00:35:04] Nina Endrst: don't use the word hate often. I hate Donald Trump and I hate crackow.

[00:35:08] Anna Toonk: Okay. I don't even like hate it. I just,

[00:35:11] Nina Endrst: I don't

[00:35:12] Anna Toonk: understand. I love that you hate it and don't know what it is. No, I know they

[00:35:16] Nina Endrst: sell meanies and toilet paper and underwear. It makes no sense. I don't like it. I don't don't want

[00:35:22] Anna Toonk: it when my brother is like, I'm going to Costco, do you need anything?

And I'm like, where. Where would I put it? Like, he's like, well, don't you need

[00:35:30] Nina Endrst: toilet paper

[00:35:32] Anna Toonk: and big. He's like, don't you need toilet paper and paper towels. I was like, once again, where am I putting it? Is she represents

[00:35:39] Nina Endrst: Americas. I don't know if it's anywhere, but the United States, not America, United States obsession with like too much shit.

Like you don't need. Three boxes of waffles, like I guess too. I mean, listen, teach there. You love Costco. Go forth, be in Costco,

[00:35:57] Anna Toonk: but, but it doesn't seem to have encouraged the best of what this country is simplifying. Well

[00:36:03] Nina Endrst: also, I, you know, something you're talking about. Trusting the kind of middle, you know, or finding ways to exist in, in the middle and ambiguity in, maybe

[00:36:16] Anna Toonk: hit it, but it's, it's freeing and it's not

[00:36:19] Nina Endrst: the same as lowering your standards.

You know, like it's not the same as. Being like, well, I guess life's going to kind of suck or be like gray. It's not, it's just, I think it's a lot about, we don't know. And coming back to that and, and supporting ourselves minute to minute, not in an obsessive way, but just there's so many times throughout the day where we can slip into this kind of panic right.

Of, I don't trust this is going to happen. I don't know about that. In terms of trusting other people when we don't express our expectations, which I don't think we should always necessarily do, but if we let it a road trust, when somebody doesn't, you know, live up to some unspoken expectation that we have that's on us, like you said, to be really honest with ourselves and.

See that trust is not also the same. We don't view trust the same, right. Something that you do that makes me feel like, oh, I don't know if I like that. Or that makes me kind of go back into my shell. Wouldn't bother Sally. You know, so I think perspective is also an important thing too. Be aware of, or keep, you know what, maybe this is just a me thing or maybe I need to take care of myself in this moment.

Maybe this isn't a universal

[00:37:43] Anna Toonk: truth. Yeah. I also think sometimes like, you know, knowing what you want to trust in. So badly can also help, you know, where you're vulnerable. I know for me, sometimes the places I wasn't willing to just sort of comfort myself or look at my lack of trust or work on my trust is like also where I kind of put myself in the path of people.

Like I wish I had. Or, you know, healers that were like, oh, I've got the answer or whatever that, some of what helps me about trying to embrace ambiguity is really realizing no one has it figured out. And like nobody knows that. And so the more that I can like determine my own truth in what feels like trust to me or what feels like not trusting to me or whatever is, is super helpful as well.

Yeah. I agree with Tom. I mean the amount of people that I was like, oh my God, I think they have a quick fix for me. Right. And if we really want

something

[00:38:51] Nina Endrst: so bad, you know, then I think we'll settle often for and turn off the alarms, right? Yeah. Ignore the call. Yeah. I remember wanting this job. After I left the modeling industry, I was like, I want to work with kids.

Like, that's what I want to do. And to your point, what I was really running toward was an answer to fill like this void, which, you know, Obviously chosen to trust that what snacks would reveal itself. But I was hyper-focused on this job with the boys and girls club and I didn't get it. And I remember being crushed and embarrassed.

Like this was a job that was. As I thought at the time I was overqualified for which, by the way, I wasn't. Cause I was not qualified in any way to work in that, in that capacity and qualified, no like no bitch, just because you like kids and went to college doesn't mean. Like sit the fuck

[00:39:58] Anna Toonk: down. Got it.

That's not like if that's not desperation, like I know that feeling if you're like, oh, well, kids

[00:40:07] Nina Endrst: ran to like, but fuck Brooklyn. Right? I was just like, this is it. This is it. This is my. To freedom. And my whole body was like, I don't know if this is it. Like, you don't even take the subway, you know? Like, how are you going to get here?

We're pumped. Like, you don't have any perspective about what these children go through, like neck knock, but I didn't get it. Didn't get it. Obviously, thank God for me and those children. And. And what then I was in a yoga class. I was on medical leave and I was in a yoga class and it was, you know, yoga had been a part of my life for a long time growing up with my mom.

But I used to like, Really dismiss it and everything that she did, like pull cards and blah, blah, blah, meditate, a flag. What's fucking weird. But then I was walking out a yoga class and that was a whole body really calm, like you're meant to do this. And I was like, oh, that's different than. The one in the Bronx or Brooklyn, I was like, um, okay.

And that's when I found a training, I signed up, I was like, I will quit my job, but I need money to support myself. So I will quit. My job, become a nanny because I was way more qualified for that and get another part-time job, which is exactly what I did, you know? And so I. Calm feeling that full body trust and knowing that it's related very closely to calmness has changed my life in so many ways, because I used to think it was chaos or excitement, which is very different.

Like when Anna and I partnered, you know, this is a big relationship in my life, obviously we've like now been officially together for over a year. Right. Yeah, no, February.

[00:41:55] Anna Toonk: Yeah. I was going to say like a fish fab, but a fish trap working together since I want to since like August. Okay.

[00:42:03] Nina Endrst: So yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That's what I mean. Like, but I remember being excited about you, but not like that sweaty feeling, you know, when you get, when you're like, yes, Hopped up on something manic to be on

[00:42:17] Anna Toonk: totally manic. Manic. I know I'm like not trusting. It's a good sign. I used to know that meat. Oh no. I only learned that through a series of cataclysmic mistakes,

[00:42:29] Nina Endrst: but then it's all of the peaceful relationships with the.

Not totally. It's not like we were just sitting in Zen constantly, but my husband, you like really true friendships work stuff that I knew is like, you know, part of my purpose, all of that came with ease and calm in my body. And that's how I know when I can trust something or somebody, or I can't

[00:43:02] Anna Toonk: Yeah. I often have to ask myself, like, is it a me thing or them thing? Like, if I'm nervous, it's like, cause sometimes I just need a little bit of time or something like that. And I have to like call myself out and be like, this is a youth thing, you know? So like be kind or you don't like don't give off the vibe that you don't trust this PR like own that.

It's your issue about something you touched on it. Come back to you because it's one of the biggest gifts that I think taro has given me in learning taro. Is that anything that's in our best and highest camp miss us. And that's been one of the best things I've ever learned and probably one of the most painful, because.

There's nothing like going through a breakup or something and being like, and our bus miss us. But why did he, you know, like there's

will do anything. I could have sworn his Dick. Wasn't my best, but that's something that also really. Comforts me or something that I guess has become a bit of a mantra or something that I come back to when I feel that trust or I feel something slipping, you know, I do believe in that I believe in it because it's like, you know, part of why I wanted to come back to your story is so exactly that, of like, I always say that like, You know, humans are incredibly psychic, like where we go wrong is our interpretation.

And that like you, in my opinion, it's like using that example of you changing your career is it's like you were right. You were, you were getting the Intel, something's got to change. You need to change. You need to quit this job. Or, you know, like something's got to go, but then it's. You were like, okay, I'm going to interpret it as this.

And I'm going to run, you know, I'm not going to forget about, you know, what my life is, who I really am as a reason, what logic all gone, you know? But it's like what a perfect example of that. This is like, you know, your story is of like, if you really want what's in your best and highest, like. That often means that thing that you're like desperate to like kind of hit your whacking.

Like he's often not going to like work out, you know, like that's often sort of the trick I think. And so for me now I have to like, Kind of hold it in both hands and be like, it's fair to be bummed. It's fair to be bummed. You didn't get the job. It's fair to be bummed about the breakup. It's fair to be bummed, like, you know, Nina and I have some deals in place right now that we're really excited about, but also we're like doing all this stuff.

I mean, talk about a trust exercise. We're like, let's not get to a 10 of them in my man, but like, you know, it's like, how do you let yourself be human? How do you let yourself be excited or sad or devastated or whatever, but. trusting. Yeah. And trusting. I mean, that's where, like, I think Nina and I are lucky.

Cause we have strong areas, placements that like, I think of that like areas arrogance in a way of I'm like, I'm not going to let you pitch. Yeah. Like you're not going to take that from me. Nope is helpful. But like, if you don't have that arrogance to like tap into when you need it, If you're a buyer, if you're a Pisces, for example, and you're like underwater right now, and you're just like all my feelings I have about my feelings.

Where am I? You, as you know, I'll also people with strong water places we are with you. But I do think if I come back to like, what I ultimately want and give a fuck about in my life is I want what is in my best and highest. Cause then I don't have any anxiety about keeping it or holding onto it. I'm allowed to just like freely exist with it in my life

[00:47:01] Nina Endrst: above that tattoo that on my bad day.

[00:47:04] Anna Toonk: Yeah. That's what I come back to. If you're in the moment right now, like I have a lot of friends who like fertility stuff has been like completely fucked up by COVID and, you know, trying to continue treatments or whatever, you know, if you're going through something where it's just really hard to trust, I'm not saying like, if things aren't working out, that's not in your best and highest or whatever, but feel your feels, but maybe.

Just know, you don't know like how the story plays out. It might not look the way you

[00:47:36] Nina Endrst: think it will.

[00:47:39] Anna Toonk: Yeah. I mean, it's funny. I was thinking about it. I, you know, I don't, I don't have kids don't have plans to have any in the, in the future and then read the plans for you to have. It's true. It's so funny. A lot of my friends do, and I appreciate that force that on anybody,

[00:47:54] Nina Endrst: but I'm holding that vision for you specifically very

[00:47:57] Anna Toonk: tightly.

I don't know. I appreciate that. I appreciate it. And I was reading this article about all the, all these, like COVID orphan. And I, oh my God, Anna. Yeah. Yes, we have Morphin. I know how to Goodwill weep about it, you know, and was like, oh my God, I hadn't even thought about that. You know? But then they were talking about like how, in some ways it's creating these beautiful possibilities.

Cause all these people who've been on waiting lists for adopting children that they're seeing an increase of people adopting older children, which we've never had before in our time. Which I was like, oh, that's beautiful journey.

[00:48:40] Nina Endrst: This took me totally. That's the thing about being human. You're like watching something.

Destruct or die. And then there's, you know, that was it Mr. Rogers, like, look for the heroes, looks for the helpers for the helpers. And I come back to that all the time because they usually just, you know, I've said this on the podcast, like when I want to really fuck up my relationship with trust, I look at the news and I'm like, People suck.

I hate why is everyone evil? But I'm training myself to, you know, try to look at things that are involved surrounding helpers, right? People who swoop in people because the truth is suffering will never end. It will be forever and ever, and ever, and ever. And I never want to be nor could I be somebody that turns.

The world off or avoids, what makes me uncomfortable or sad instead, I

[00:49:41] Anna Toonk: want to be someone who, you know, trust and helps and is

[00:49:46] Nina Endrst: fostering an environment for that for other people. And I think that's when you feed. Something it grows. Right? So the more you feed the trust, the more gross, it doesn't mean you don't feel the other things like fear, but, or distress, but the more you feed it, the more you become

[00:50:03] Anna Toonk: it.

It's true. Before we wrap up, it's a big question, but it really, I think is kind of a yes or no. Do you believe in the inherent goodness of people? Oh man, it's rough. I used to. Yeah, I'm the same way I think I do. I believe people have made it really hard and

[00:50:23] Nina Endrst: I believe in evil too. Like

[00:50:25] Anna Toonk: I believe absolutely.

Absolutely. I'm not. I mean, if there's good, then there's also bad, you know, like if there's, you know,

[00:50:32] Nina Endrst: that most people. Can be, but I think environment and media and, you know, toxic masculinity and et cetera, like I think our environment really fucks with us, but I think, you know, yes, deep down, I do believe that I will say yes, I

[00:50:53] Anna Toonk: do same.

I was thinking about how I do believe in the inherent good of people, but I think it's been a rough. I want to say since like 2015, really? When it became obvious that Trump was like viable, just put me into some other place because that, I think it also just showed me like things you can also. Trust or like people are going to be a self-serving lake.

I think it also to your point of like, look for the helpers, it emboldened me to be like, be louder about that. You know, we have

[00:51:27] Nina Endrst: to be because the bullies or, you know, the narcissists or the racists are always going to be loud, you know, especially when given a green light, what did he just held a rally?

This makes me literally want to just break shit and cry at the same time. And. Talking about January 6th and how people were being, you know, he can't even speak like proper fucking English moron, but he was like, Durbin hold

[00:51:53] Anna Toonk: places. Cause they were, you know,

[00:51:56] Nina Endrst: trying to fight for their right.

[00:51:59] Anna Toonk: Like whatever.

He's so stupid, but I wish that wasn't such an accurate impersonation, so stupid well we're

[00:52:05] Nina Endrst: right. Uh, God and we're right. We're still. It's like, but that's what makes me really question, like there's thousands of people at this rally, like, yeah, you're right. You know, and that worries me, but I think like the pendulum will have to swing.

Right. You know, it will have to, but in the meantime, trust in good, be loud in your own way. And that's my hope. And my ask for anybody listening is like, you know, be one of the good

[00:52:35] Anna Toonk: ones. Yeah. And if you're someone like me who trust is so tricky, see if you can work on your self-trust first. Then when I rebuilt that a lot changed for me.

And I would say with people that you do, if you look at. In your life. And you're like, okay, like point blank. Do you trust these people? They're like young. I was like, for all my neuroses, one-to-ones them like, push it a little bit there. You know, like when they're inviting you, I have some times that have like, hugely invited me out of my comfort zone.

And when I went with it, like my world expanded and I learned how to trust a little bit more. So I would also write. You know, like people you really do know, or your true blues, like they are safe for you. Like I pushing it a little bit there because I think it can be very like the Grinch and your heart starts to grow and, and beat a little bit more.

Yeah.

[00:53:30] Nina Endrst: I love that. Lean into that. Well, thanks for listening and guys, if you wouldn't mind, please, if you can write. And write a nice review. It really help us. And I'm trusting that it's okay to ask for help. I'm trusting that even though it's very uncomfortable because I'm like, I'll just write my own.

[00:53:52] Anna Toonk: I know I have yet to do that, even though it is tempting.

And then I think our next episode is about avoidance, which I was going to say. If you want to talk, you know, if you want to share your thoughts, but y'all, won't hear this before we recorded. I think so.

[00:54:08] Nina Endrst: I don't want to send you, and if you are going for Donald Trump, don't buy

[00:54:19] Anna Toonk: that's

[00:54:19] Nina Endrst: all for today's episode.

[00:54:21] Anna Toonk: If there's a topic you want us to discuss, please submit it on our website at the soul.

[00:54:25] Nina Endrst: unity.com/how to be here. If you want to connect with other thoughtful humans, please join us at the soul unity listeners. Get two weeks free by going to our website and visiting our

[00:54:34] Anna Toonk: podcasts.

Thanks for listening. And remember we're guides, not gurus.