- Well, everybody, uh, welcome.

We are starting a brand new

sermon series called New Year

New You, where we're covering

five elements of health.

And so we're talking about

physical health, mental health,

professional health, financial

health, and physical health.

Everybody wants to get healthier.

Nobody wants to get less

healthy, that's for sure.

And of course, God wants

you to be healthier.

God cares about your spiritual health.

He cares about your inner

world. He cares about your mind.

He cares about your body.

He cares about your finances

and how you steward that.

And so this series is

gonna be really practical.

And to come alongside the sermon series,

we're gonna be recording five podcasts

with experts in this

field from our church.

Although anyone who's on the

podcast will probably not think

they're experts, but we

think they're experts.

We know that their stories are going

to bless you and help you.

And so today, uh, we have, uh, Gwen

and Dan Bode with us

members of our church,

and they're gonna be talking

about spiritual health.

And so welcome. Thank you. Yeah.

And so how do you feel about being called

experts in spiritual health?

- Uh, yeah. No, .

- Well, your humility.

See, look, they're already winning. There

- You go.

- Yeah.

- Yeah. And so, no,

- We've been at it for a long time.

For sure. Say that. Yeah.

Always learning, always growing.

- I consider you living saints,

and so I really look up to you.

And I know my mom is very close with you,

and I was on the car ride

with her this morning,

and I said that I was

interviewing you guys,

and she, this is what she said.

She said, oh, they're living

saints. They'll do so well .

So when your reputation precedes,

and we know that's God

doing a work in you.

Yeah. And that's not ourselves.

And so I'd love to just know

maybe a little bit about you.

How did you guys meet? How

long you guys been married?

- We have been married 54 years. Good job.

And I, uh, I, uh, checked that

with my calculator before you came .

- Good. But,

- Uh, uh,

and we met, uh, in two places

at church and at school.

Okay. And so here in

- Edmonton?

- Yes. Wonderful. McNally High School.

And, uh, then a small church

close to the university campus.

Okay. And we were about

that age when we met.

- Yeah. So you guys were in church,

the same church together

when you guys met?

Yes. Mm-hmm . Okay. You

guys were singing a hymn

and you caught Gwen's eye

from across the church. And

- Actually it was shuffleboard. It was

- Shuffleboard .

That's awesome. I've

done shuffleboard once.

It's a lot of fun. Yeah.

Yeah. Bring it back.

Uh, it's pickle. Everything's

pickleball right now.

That's right. We can bring back

shuffleboard. That's great.

And how long have you guys

been serving the Lord?

- Uh, let's see, late seventies, so

45 years or so.

- Okay. Like that.

- Yeah. Okay.

- And looking back, um, I

think that probably I would say

that, uh, significant watershed in my life

was when I was 12.

Okay. And, uh, in the church

that I was going to then, uh,

they, um, practiced a

public profession of faith.

So I went up to the front

and said that, uh, I believed in Jesus

as my Lord and Savior.

Yeah. And not long after

that, I was baptized and at

- 12, so, okay.

It's good. I have a 12-year-old

and she has really come

to her own and her faith.

Um, you know, I have

younger kids as well, and,

and sometimes I'm, I'm,

I'm just not too sure.

Right. But my 12-year-old, I'm

sure I'm like, she gets it.

And so that's wonderful at

12 that you can come to that.

Okay. So you said you've

been serving the Lord

for about 45 years.

- Yeah, I would, I would

say that I didn't have

that ex same experience that dad had.

Yeah. Okay. I, I actually did

get baptized when I was about

10, but I didn't know

what I was doing. Yeah.

- And I know have, have you

been rebaptized since that? Yes.

Okay. 'cause some people

ask that sometimes.

I actually just had a, someone

ask me the other day said,

Hey, I got baptized when

I was, you know, six

or seven, but I didn't

know what I was doing.

Yeah. You know, should I get

baptized again? Definitely.

Okay. And you did? Yes, I did. Okay.

So when were you Rebaptized?

- Um, so

that would've been in

about 1980 something.

Okay. Early eighties. Yeah. Yeah.

- Wow. Yeah. Were there any sort

of key significant moments in

your life that you look back

to, uh, as, um, a cause

for spiritual growth

or that you'd say this

really was a, a key marker

for my faith journey?

Mm-hmm

- . Yeah. I, there's a, there's a few.

Um, and I would say that I, by

the time I got to university,

I didn't have any faith at all.

I, I didn't really, I,

I stopped believing even

that there was a god Hmm.

And all through my

university life and really

- Was there was, sorry to interrupt.

Was there a reason for that?

- I just never knew him.

Like I, I, not to dump on

my church, but it was dead.

Okay. And I, there was no,

I didn't have any spiritual

grounding in my home.

Um, my parents, my mom

went to church, dad,

my dad never went to church.

So she, we'd go Sunday morning

and the rest of the week

had nothing to do with God.

Okay. Yeah. The only time I

heard his name was in a swear.

Okay. Right. Yeah.

But then, um, early

twenties to mid twenties,

uh, got involved in a pretty

rough lifestyle of drinking

and, uh, et cetera, et cetera.

And then a good friend of

ours died. Okay. At 29.

I was about 26. And that

was, that was number one.

That was the first awakening.

- Okay. I was like,

- What, where is he?

- Where

- Did he go?

- So a tragedy happened to you

and that actually caused you

to draw closer as opposed

to repel you from God.

- That's right. Yeah. 'cause I was,

because I was, I wanted to

know, are we just a bag of meat

or is there something more Yeah.

Honestly, yeah. Before that, I

didn't, I never questioned that.

I never thought about

that. I just eat, drink,

and be merry for tomorrow.

You may die. Yeah. But

then when somebody died,

then it's a different story.

Right. For sure. And

then having children, uh,

and realizing that the

lifestyle that I had was just

not appropriate for a mom.

And just having some, a couple

of really dark times where

I realized I, this has to

stop. I can't live like this.

- That's a common story.

That one, I think a lot of people Yeah.

The idea of, you know, maybe I went

to church when I was younger, I know

that wasn't yours or Exactly.

But this idea of, I, I

kind of fell out of faith

during college years and early adulthood.

But then I had kids and I

realized I don't have a foundation

for my life, and I don't want my kids

to do what, what I did.

And, and in some ways,

these kids almost shock you

back into faith or Yeah.

Or there's some sort of accountability

like I wanna do right.

By these kids. For sure.

And so it's a journey back

to church journey we see

for young families'. Yeah.

- And so then, uh, a

neighbor, Ruth Wonga, uh,

invited me to a Bible study,

and I went Absolutely.

Okay. And I went, uh,

and, uh, heard about Jesus

and Fi finally got to know him.

Yeah. And then she invited me to church,

- This church Millwood.

How long ago was that?

- Uh, late, that would be 79. Wow.

It was when we were in the old building.

- 79. Okay. So what's my math on that?

Uh, is that 40, oh, that's

45 years. Yeah. Yeah.

- You said, okay. Yeah,

because my Jenny was Yeah.

Was about three when we,

when I first started coming

to church, and I came by

myself for three years Yeah.

Then didn't really wanna

have anything to do with it,

but I just left him.

I just thought, well, we were

all praying for him. Yeah.

And he did have some

experiences that drew him

to the Lord, but that's his story.

Yeah. But I didn't know.

But that it for me was a

lesson and say, if, if you pray

and intercede for someone,

you may not see it,

but God's working wonderful.

And that's what was happening. Yeah.

- Yeah. That's an encouragement

for, I know a lot of, a lot

of families listening right now with kids

or parents that are not serving the Lord.

So, Dan, what about you? Were there

any kind of key moments for you?

- I think that, uh, in a,

when you have a Christian

background, you are embraced in

the family's activities,

which involve church.

But there comes a time when, um,

usually in youth where, uh,

that embrace is no longer there,

and you start to question

where you stand yourself.

And, um, it seemed easier not

to be keeping up the

discipline, keep keeping going.

Okay. And, uh,

and so that seemed really good,

except that, uh, I can say

with complete honesty

that that was, uh, a time

of the least peace in my life.

Uh, the least happiness in

many respects, at a deep level,

the least happiness.

And, uh, and there was no significance.

And so, um, that really then

answered the question for

me, what, what are you going

to pursue from the

point of spiritual life?

Mm-hmm . Spiritual involvement.

And, uh, and so that was, uh,

that was significant for me,

just, uh, uh, getting

back into church and,

and finding everything

so much more significant,

so much more meaningful

than, uh, life without.

Yeah. Uh, second thing for me was actually

after we had been in church for a while,

and we, uh, took part in a program called

Evangelism Explosion.

And, uh, that program was,

uh, designed to train people

to go out and do street evangelism,

evangelism door-to-door evangelism.

And the, um, challenge was that you had

to learn the key, um, the key basis

of what Christian religion was all about,

uh, God's love and mercy,

but also his justice,

and how that was all, how

that was all clarified.

And, and, uh, of course, that involved

Jesus' sacrifice on our part

and, uh, our freedom then

to be in relationship with

God, which he desires.

Yeah. And, uh, so really in terms

of my spiritual journey,

that became a really significant moment

because we had to memorize all

this stuff, scriptures and,

and, uh, principles and, uh,

and see how they impacted our lives.

And then to actually use that to,

uh, bring that testimony to other people,

which was really challenging,

going from door to door.

- Sure. Yeah. , so that,

- That also involved, uh,

depending on the Lord,

which became really, really

important thing in, in life.

That was a lesson to learn.

- Sure. Yeah. Putting

yourself out there. Yeah.

It's like, God, if you don't

come through mm-hmm . Yeah.

I love that. You know, I

wouldn't have thought of that.

But as I reflect my own

life, memorizing the,

I would say the elements of the gospel,

or at least the, the

story arc of the gospel

has been really, um, important

for my, my life, you know?

And so the way that I think

about it is, you know,

God created us for a

relationship with him.

Our sins separate us from him.

Sins can't repay by good deeds,

paying the price for our sin.

God sends himself in Jesus,

you know, to take on our sin.

Everyone who believes in Christ has

life and life forevermore.

And I can, I I just have embedded that.

And there's something that

just happens in your heart

where you just kinda get the gospel in it,

and you keep sort of the

main thing, the main thing.

Yeah. You're able to

share that with people.

And so there's a lot of

beautiful other elements

of, of church and faith.

But, but that's the core. That's it.

And so if you can internalize

that, I mean, yeah.

God could do wonders

with your heart. Okay.

So imagine I am brand new Christian. Okay.

It's, I just, I was at church yesterday,

pastor Phil preaches message.

God got a little on my heart, you know, I,

I scan the QR code, , let's say.

And, and I, I, I decided to

make a decision for Jesus.

And so now I'm paired with you as mentors.

And I would say, how

do I grow spiritually?

What would you tell me?

- I mean, some of the

things are pretty obvious,

like fellowshipping with believers

and, um,

The company you keep is really important.

And so it might mean that you might,

and that was my experience.

There were some people I had to just,

um, distance myself from.

Okay. Because they

weren't a good influence,

and they didn't, they weren't

gonna help me on this journey.

So fellowshipping, um,

reading the Bible,

listening to worship music

and serving, I think

are things that are key.

So the disciplines, so some of

those disciplines, as I said,

I think are kind of obvious.

And I think they're really important.

But what I would say is

be kind to yourself.

It's a journey, and it's

gonna take some time.

But he's not gonna, he who began this,

he began the work in you,

and he will bring it to completion.

So be kind to yourself.

You're gonna make mistakes.

You're gonna take two steps forward.

You'll probably take one back.

But you're, you're on a journey

and you, you are moving,

you're spiraling up.

And if you hear a voice

saying, uh, you failed,

you messed up, um, know that

that's not the voice of God.

So

- I like that.

Yeah. Little grace on yourself.

- Grace, for

- Sure. Yeah.

The idea, I mean,

obviously the theological

word is sanctification, this

process becoming like Jesus.

Yeah. And it would be nice if it was up

and to the right all the time, .

But, um, the new nature

that we have in Christ sometimes takes

some time to become second nature.

Yeah, for sure. So we're kind

of fumbling forward a little bit towards,

towards grace, and Yeah, thank

- You.

He's so patient and he's so,

so patient. That's my experience.

- Yeah. So that's a good idea, right?

Because I'm not that

patient of a person, ,

I'm becoming more patient, thankfully.

But God is infinitely better

than we are in every capacity.

He's fully just, he is love.

He doesn't just love, it's his nature.

And, you know, he is slow to anger.

That's how he describes

himself. That's right.

You know, in, uh, Exodus 34, I believe.

And to think of, I mean,

I'm patient towards my kids,

and I'm a, I'm a faulty dad.

Yeah, right. I'm not

perfect, but there's just

nothing but patience for that.

And yeah. To have a

little grace for yourself.

'cause God has grace for

you. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

What about you, Dan? What,

what would you give, you know,

what would the advice you give

to new Christian? I would, I would

- Say that all of us have a tendency.

All of us have a tendency

to compartmentalize

the things in our life.

So we have a cupboard for religion.

We have a cupboard for recreation.

We have a cupboard for our work life.

And, um, I think we need

to open that cupboard

of religion or our spiritual life more

correctly, our spiritual life.

And to recognize that that

needs to permeate everything.

That's, that's the

foundation for everything.

And, um, so, you know, uh, long time ago,

there was this, uh, guy, a monk beat up

during a war that he was in.

Uh, name was Brother Lawrence.

He was injured and, uh,

couldn't work very much.

He was illiterate, but he

practiced the presence of God.

He communicated to his monastery

that he practiced the presence of God.

So everything he did

was permeated with God.

And, uh, I think we need to

recognize that the foundation

of our life is God's truth,

God's presence in our

life, engagement with God,

and everything we do can

be transformed by, um,

the gratitude and the,

um, community with God.

And that becomes just a very rich way

of undergoing transformation,

which never changes, by the way.

I mean, that goes on throughout life.

And, and for me, that's

still happening. Of course.

- Yeah. So your, your advice

would be to young Ken,

you know, never been to

church, uh, besides a funeral

and maybe a Christmas Eve

service at Hope City, um,

to practice the presence of God.

Okay. Yeah. And, you

know, there's some ways

that we can talk about how we do that.

Yeah. Um, but I'm reminded

of Psalm 1611, uh,

in the presence of God

is the fullness of joy.

Mm-hmm . A sense of out which

you could also say, outside

of God's presence, there is no joy.

And so, if you want to live

a joyful Christian life,

make sure you're in God's presence.

'cause that's where the gift

of joy is, is given to you.

So, oh, yeah. That's great. Okay.

So you have mentioned you've been

following Jesus for decades.

Okay. Uh, how do you

keep it fresh and alive?

I, how does it not, because Come on,

just reading the Bible,

doesn't that get boring?

No. Or just pray doesn't

get boring. That's that one.

That one Enough. Sure. Yeah.

How do you keep it fresh and alive? I

- Think there's a couple of things.

I would say the first

one for me is service.

And especially, uh, like,

personally, my service is with

working with people who are brokenhearted

or are, are struggling.

And so I know that in myself,

I don't really have anything to give them.

And I'm completely and

utterly dependent on him.

So when I go to Freedom Session,

or if I go to an appointment

where I'm gonna listen

to someone who's struggling, um, I

need him with me.

And so I think service for

me has been the one, one

of the ways that I keep it fresh is

'cause he, he, he just

keeps reminding me that, uh,

without him I can do nothing.

And with him, I can do everything. Yeah.

And I think the other thing is

actually, these are kind of,

sort of sad things, but is trouble.

And I think for me, trouble and loss

and struggling is

how I stay connected to him.

'cause I, once again, I need

him when things are great

and fine, you're more likely

to find me on YouTube.

But when I'm working through

something that's hard, you're,

you're more likely gonna find

me in the word and praying

and calling out to him and

telling him that I need him,

and finding that he's, he's there.

And he, yeah. Just over and over

and over again when I've had

trouble and sorrow and loss

and struggles, he's shown up. Yeah.

- So, so not that you go looking

for trouble. Oh, you know, ,

- Somebody said that once.

Oh, I just, yeah.

I just gotta have, I don't

have any trouble right now.

You gotta give me some

trouble. God. Yeah. It's going.

No, thanks. No. Yeah. I'm not

looking for it. But it comes,

- Well, if trouble is a way

to grow your spiritual life,

then we're in luck.

Oh, yeah. Because Jesus

promised us. Right.

In this world, you will. Right.

It's just gonna happen inevitably.

- Yeah.

- A lot of people, it's interesting

because you said tragedy is

what drew you to the Lord.

'cause sometimes it's the

opposite. Right? Yeah.

And you know, it's the, it's the grief

or the trouble that keeps you

reliant on the Lord as well.

Yeah. And I mean, we're, we're

in an age of comfort, right.

Where our, you know,

the God of this age is,

how comfortable can I make my life?

And the evil of this age is any sort

of suffering or discomfort.

Yeah. So it's interesting to

say that, you know, if, I mean,

if you want to be like

Jesus, well then part of

that process is suffering.

What did Jesus do? Right. God

himself. Right. He suffered.

Um, and so suffering is

a way that God grows us.

No one asks for it, but the

people that we respect the most,

and the people whose

faith we want to emulate

are always the people who

have gone through things

that Exactly.

That we wouldn't want to go

through. But they've come out on

the other side, and God seems

to grace him for that. So

- Yeah.

There's a testimony there

that's real and true,

because you've walked through it

and he's shown up and he's been there.

Yeah. He's taught you things.

- Yeah. That's gonna be a

lot encouraging to a lot

of listeners and watchers today

because they're going through it.

And, you know, my mom was,

I was telling my mom today

something, what was I saying?

Oh, yeah. I was telling her

how difficult it would

be to leave Edmonton.

Right. Because I love Edmonton,

but my kids love this church.

And how difficult it would

be to leave this church

because my kids love it so much.

And, um,

she starts giving me all these

religious platitudes, like,

uh, you know, God doesn't waste anything.

You'd be okay. I'm like, I'm

not looking for a lesson,

mom, , just listen to me then.

You know? But this reality is people are

just going through hard things.

Yeah. And so they're gonna hear

this, and it's gonna be really helpful.

So, yeah. Cool.

Dan, would, do you have

anything to add to that? Yeah,

- I, I, I think, um, that,

that the spiritual disciplines

really are important.

Mm-hmm . So, so certainly prayer

and regularly being in scripture,

reading your Bible. And, um,

- Is that something you do every day? Yes.

- Yeah.

- Yeah. How, how did, do you have a plan?

Or do you just go for it?

- Um, I, uh, in the evening, well,

I pray maybe four times a day,

but in the evening is my main prayer time.

And I, I do have a, I have

a piece of paper with the

petitions in the intercessions that I want

to cover about 45 minutes.

Yeah. And, um,

and, uh, so I work through that, um,

usually on an alternation

basis, not every night.

So the prayers are often, um,

directed to worship and reverence to God.

And, uh, and then these longer times

of intercession

and petitions, uh, which means

just praying for, praying

for, for others, and

praying for personal needs.

Um, one of the things that

was really wonderful about

that was that, uh, as I

routinely went to prayer,

uh, the realization came

to me that God wanted

to be in relationship with me.

He wanted to have that time. Mm-hmm .

- Do you think he looked forward

to those prayer times more than you do?

I just, I'm just wondering . Yeah.

- I think I, I, I'm

always pleased when, um,

I'm really centered and engaged.

I'm a little a DHD, so it's

- Really nice when, uh,

- When I can, I can be directly involved

because I think it gives him joy.

Yeah. I, I think he loves his creation

and wants to, wants

to be in real communion

with us. Yeah. Yeah.

- So one of the images obviously

that we have of God is that

of an everlasting father or a good father.

Yeah. And again, as a, I often,

I often relate to my kids

because there's few

and far tween where I can think of

where I'm more joyful

than when I'm driving

with my 10-year-old in the

car, and she's just unloading.

She's telling me how

great, whatever. Right.

And she's, there's going on at school,

there's just nothing like it.

Right. So, yeah. Anyway, sorry.

- And, and, uh, as far as

service goes, then prayer, uh,

scripture, reading service,

um, I think that, uh, those

practices lead to a feeling

of sign significance

and meaning in our life.

And, um, and so there's

a rich reward in that.

And of course, in, in

service that, uh, inevitably

involves people, it involves others.

And then, um, we learn from other people.

And, uh, and so, uh, our

transformation is really,

uh, affected by the people

that we encounter, as well as, as

whatever we find in scripture and,

and in our listening with God.

And so, yeah.

- Uh,

- All of those things, uh,

really bring significance

and meaning to life.

- So what about this idea?

If you don't like it, that's okay.

I'm just thinking, would, would it be okay

to define spiritual health?

Is, um, Christlikeness mm-hmm

. Would that be mm-hmm .

Fair to say? So then,

would it be fair to say

that you'd be more spiritually healthy if

you were more like Christ ?

And so, you know, if you pulled apart,

let's say Jesus' life,

what we have recorded

for us in the gospels,

and we simply did what he did, then

that would probably be a good

pathway to spiritual health.

I think that's kind of,

I think that'd be true.

And so I remember one time,

um, categorizing it was,

it was a sort of an academic endeavor

that turned into something

more meaningful for me.

But at first it was

purely just, uh, data .

So I wanted to see what Jesus

did. Right. What did he say?

Because he says in Matthew 28 19,

great commission go into

all the world baptism,

um, and disciple them.

Right. Um, teaching them

to obey everything that

I've commanded you.

So it's like, okay, if

that's what it means

to be a disciple, to obey

what Jesus command,

well, what did he say? ?

Right. What did he do? How are

we, so, so I took the gospels

and everything Jesus said or did,

and I categorized it into

different categories,

so maybe prayer or miracle

working, or whatever it might be.

And then at the end, I hit the sort button

to see quantity wise.

I'm not saying it's totally the best

way to do it, but that's what I did.

And what came up to the

very top, the top two things

that Jesus did most often

was prayer and service.

And so you're most like Jesus when you're

engaged in those things.

And so I was like, oh, interesting.

Maybe that's true, , at least

your experience has been,

that's, that's our case.

'cause you both said

service. And so, yeah.

- I think the other thing that

I would add to the whole idea

of discipline, um, and,

and Bible reading is that over

the years, like I've done,

where I've go through

the Bible in a year and

or use a devotional

and whatever the scripture is that day,

then I would look up that scripture.

And so I've done all kinds

of ways to read the Bible,

but in the last few years,

um, I've learned this process

of hearing the voice of

God, reading the Bible

to hear the voice of God.

And it's where you just take

a short bit of scripture

and you read it several times,

and you, you're looking for

what, what's it saying to you?

What is God saying to you?

And then you take that

and pick out a couple of

things that really hit you

that day, and you turn it into a prayer,

and it's, first, it's God.

So it's God saying, Gwen, my daughter.

And then you write down

what you think he's saying,

and then you respond to that.

And I found that I did that

every day for a long time,

and it just, uh, took

me to a deeper place of

using God's word, not just

as something historical

or as a good advice, or, but

it's actually the word of God.

And he's actually talking to you,

and he has something unique to say to you.

- And, uh, how can you

ever get bored of God,

of the universe talking

to you, ? How could

- You No, because it's new every morning.

And, and you could read the

same scripture Yeah. 15 times.

And every time he would

tell you something different

because he knows what you're working

through at that time. Yeah,

- Yeah.

Yeah. You could spend your

life plumbing the depths

of God's word and never reach the bottom.

Yeah. It's just, yeah.

Yeah. That's fascinating.

So, so, um, I'd like

to know about the church's

role in your spiritual life.

Um, how has the church played,

uh, a role in your life

or impacted you, uh, in regards to

spiritual growth and spiritual maturity?

- It's just foundational for

me. It really is. I don't know.

I can't imagine how I would've survived

as a believer without the church.

Um, just, uh, it's hard to,

I think just right from the

beginning, just like I said,

the church that I went to

as a child was pretty dead.

- And what do you mean by that?

- I just mean that we never, the,

the Holy Spirit was never mentioned.

It was very ritualistic.

Um, I never felt like the people

around me knew him.

It wasn't a relationship,

it was just a place

that you went on Sunday.

Mm-hmm . But I walked,

and of course I was in a

different place when I, and I

- Yeah.

I think that's important to note, right?

- It, it, it really is. So

I walk into this Pentecostal

church and people are raising their hands

and worshiping God,

and it, it was so real.

Um, and yeah, just, it's

- Like either they're totally crazy

or something's going on here. That's

right.

- .

That's right. And I

didn't, I felt like they,

that something was going on.

Yeah. I felt like something was going on,

and so I embraced it.

And, uh, so fellowship

and service, as we were talking about

before, that's where I find

that the Christian service

and the Christian fellowship,

- That's where that's

lived out and exercised.

- Yeah. Yeah. That's right.

And then just wonderful

worship, times of worship that

still happen every Sunday.

And good teaching.

- Yeah. Yeah. What about you, Dan?

How, how has the church played in,

played a role in your life?

- When we, when we, um, eat regularly,

have good nutrition, uh, then

we're healthier, uh, that goes

for our, uh, mental

and emotional state as

well as our physical body.

And, uh, we need spiritual

nourishment as well.

And the church is my source of, of

that on an ongoing basis,

um, in ways that, uh,

myself personally, I

wouldn't be able to, uh,

derive nourishment that I wouldn't be able

to derive on my own in my Bible reading

and prayer and so on.

And so I get teaching, I

get worship that just kind

of lifts me into, uh, into,

uh, a holy place.

Um, I meet people that

are examples for me.

And, um, all of those things

are, are very sustaining of,

of the spiritual nature.

And I think that the

fact that it happens over

and over again every

week is really important.

You know, it's important

to keep on with, uh,

with the routines and, uh,

and, uh, not routine in, um, a kind of a

applauding obligation sense,

but a routine in just

being, being involved

and, uh, committed and,

and finding actually, um,

the delight of the thing too,

which is, which is a big part, of course,

what keeps us coming back. Yeah.

- Well, to your point of, of,

you know, physical health,

you talked about, you know,

we need good meals to kind

of keep healthy, you know, the idea

of physical health is

if you went to a gym,

let's say two times a year

or four times a year,

times, times a year, ,

you're probably not gonna

notice a big difference.

Yeah. No. It's better than nothing.

But the impact of physical

health is the routine, right?

Yeah. It's the day after where

you don't really see much

happening, but then over the

course of a year or two years

or five years, you're

like, yeah, I'm jacked.

Right? , that's the idea. It's true.

You know, similar with, with

kind of the church, right.

In that sense. Yeah. Uh,

and the reason why I wanted

to bring up the church is,

I mean, most of the people

who are gonna be listening

or talking, uh, come to our

church, that's what this is for.

But they're gonna be people

who find it online, who, um,

maybe don't go to church

or don't see the priority of church.

And in, in all love, uh,

and in graciousness, this

has been my experience,

and I really do stand on this.

I have never met a

spiritually mature Christian

who doesn't prioritize church.

Right. Like, I just, I

just haven't met that.

Um, and does it exist? I

mean, I, I just, I don't know.

Right? Uh, I, so here at Hope City, um,

there's so many things we can do in order

to help bring people into greater,

um, spiritual maturity, right?

Which is the role of the church, right?

It's to present people

right on that final day

to Christ blameless and mature mm-hmm .

And so there's so many

things that we can do, um,

but we've chosen to

specifically do three things

in order to bring about that health.

So similar to, again, I guess we could

use a physical example, right?

If you wanna get physical

health, it's like, well, you need

to prioritize sleep, right?

If you don't sleep well,

you're not gonna be physically healthy.

You need to prioritize

your nutrition, right?

You need to exercise. Right?

If you do those three

things, you're gonna be okay.

There's all these other

little things you can do,

but those are the big three

that are gonna get you

99% of the way there.

So what are those things spiritually?

And so we said, well, church,

church is the premier discipleship

event of the week, right?

And so church has to be that.

Second is scripture reading

and prayer, which you

guys have both known.

So you can't be spiritually

mature if you don't speak

to God or have him speak to you.

And that's the primary

way that we do that.

And then, as you know, you've

mentioned multiple times,

Gwen is spiritual community, right?

Or fellowship. That's,

so that's the tough one

for most people, is, is who,

how do I find people to travel

with me, who can hold me

accountable, who can cheer me on?

And so maybe, um, could you

tell me how you found that?

Yeah. Like where did you

find those people to,

to sharpen you and keep you going?

- It, it, it, in a lot, it was,

um, either through going to,

going to bible studies, going

to, you know, midweek groups,

but mostly where I found

the fellowship was in

service for a long time.

I did, um, I worked with preschool,

the preschool program, right? So,

- So buddies with three year olds. Oh,

- I love it.

I love my best friends . Uh, and yeah.

So that, just working with

all these people who were of,

were like-minded and loved the kids too.

And, and then moving into this, this area

that I'm in now with Freedom Session and,

and some of those other programs,

just fellowshipping, just,

those are my friends.

That's how I met your mom.

- Yeah. Grief, uh, that was

freedom, obsession, wasn't it?

Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. I

- Remember that best thing

that ever happened to me.

- Best thing that ever happened to

her.

- . .

- Yeah. Yeah. That's

good. Dan, what about you?

- Um, I think that, uh,

one of the things that, uh,

as Gwen was, uh, talking,

I was thinking about, um,

the Easter musical for so

- So many years. We had that

- Passion play at the church. Yeah. Yeah.

- If you're not familiar

with it, it was a thing.

It was a thing. It was

massive. It was crazy.

- John was Jesus, you

were Jesus. Five years.

- Oh my goodness. I lived

- With Jesus for five

years.

- ,

- Edit that out.

- Oh,

that's why we're gonna start the podcast .

That's gonna be a soundbite.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

- My name's Gwen Bode.

- It was wonderful

because, um, what happened

was that it was on a scale

that was large enough that

it brought a whole bunch

of people from the church into that, um,

very concentrated and,

and, uh, purposeful, uh, exercise.

And so I ended up encountering

people that normally I,

I wouldn't encounter in.

Um, so I was, uh, I was in

choir, was on the board,

uh, was doing small groups,

but there was people

who were in other areas

of church ministry that, uh,

that I just didn't get to encounter.

And they showed up there, and it was such

a beautiful thing Yeah.

To all be working together to, uh,

to shape this story mm-hmm.

That, uh, that could have such

an impact in people's lives.

Yeah. And that was just a

lovely thing. It was really

- Neat.

So, I mean, I guess not a lot

of rocket science is to meet people.

You gotta be where they are, right.

Getting, getting involved in the life

of the church, whatever that looks like.

So serving our groups or

Yeah. Whatever that might be.

Um, and you know, maybe for,

um, some of our, you know,

congregants, people call Hope City Home.

And that's something that,

for you, that's just been a struggle.

It's like, yeah, I come to church

and, you know, I'm trying to read my

Bible and, and trying to pray.

But that spiritual community

or fellowship part is just lacking.

I just wanna encourage you, um,

keep trying groups, keep

trying and serve teams.

They're, they're wonderful just

to do in and of themselves.

'cause you grow and spiritual knowledge

and you also, you know,

grow through serving.

But the connections

and the opportunities to meet

people who you can travel

with, who can help you follow Jesus

and who you can help follow

Jesus kind of, that's

where they're, there's no

really rocket science to that.

That's right. Yeah. Okay.

Let's get, let's get

maybe on the ugly side of

spiritual health, which

is dis health, I guess,

or, uh, maybe what you would call

spiritual deserts or dryness.

Right? You've been serving Jesus

for a long time, as we talked about.

It's not always up into the Right. Right.

There's some people watching today who

they just are wondering, it's like, I,

this feels dead to me.

Right? Yeah. My relationship

with Jesus feels so dry.

Have you guys experienced those

moments before in your life?

- Yeah, for sure. I mean,

it's, it, it's a journey.

And sometimes you are in the

desert and sometimes you're not.

I think, I think back to a

time when, um, my sister-in-law

passed away and we've been

praying for her that she would

not die, that she would be healed.

She had cancer. She had two

young boys, and she died.

And that was a dark dry time for me

where I just started questioning, uh, why

did I do something wrong?

Do I have, I don't have enough faith, or,

or are you, are you there?

You know, is, and just finding

myself just backing off a bit

and being just kind of withdrawn and dark,

and I, I can't really say

I, I think it was just to,

that I just kept on, kept keeping on.

And one time, um, we had a guest speaker,

and it was a lady who experienced death,

but she, they, they

were able to revive her

and she talked about heaven.

And there was something

about what she said

that made me realize that it was okay

that my sister-in-law had

passed away, that God was

so much bigger than just what's here.

And so, um, I came, I came out of it,

and I've definitely have, have

had other times where, um,

not many really, to be honest,

but just times where it just a bit shallow

and just, uh, I, I don't

have the passion for a while,

but something always happens to

stir me up again and

say, no, I, I just, yeah.

He just keeps, um, reviving

me all the time. Yeah, yeah.

- Yeah. What were you, Dan?

- I think that, um,

we're needy people, you know, uh, Adam

and Eve came out of the

garden burdened with a

really heavy burden.

And that was the knowledge

of good and evil.

They had done what God said not to do,

and now they were stuck

with, uh, a real big problem.

And that was that, uh, Adam and Eve

and all of us are broken and flawed.

And, um, and so one of the things

that I've learned along

the way is that those

vulnerabilities that I

have, those weaknesses, uh,

that's the time to turn to God.

That's not when to draw away.

That's, that's the time

when we really need him.

We need to take those things

and put them on the altar.

And that, and that goes for, uh,

reflections on my past life.

Like, sometimes I think of

things that I've said and done,

and I just go, oh, did I really do that?

I just feel so embarrassed

or so awful that I was so insensitive.

And, um, and I've learned to

just ask God for forgiveness

for those things that, uh,

in my brokenness I have done.

And, um, and I think

that, uh, that in those,

um, times,

and especially the times when

we're just spiritually kind

of flat and they happen mm-hmm .

I think that it's really

important just to simply say, God,

I know you're still in your

heaven and you still love us.

And that carries on despite

the fact that we're not

as engaged as we would

normally be, or, or mm-hmm .

That, uh, that in our mountaintop

times, in our high times,

we've been able to, to be.

And, um, and so those are

good times to turn to God.

And, you know, I, I don't think that's a

big insight for anybody.

It just, it just happens to be true.

- Yeah. Uh, I remember

one my favorite preachers,

his name's Paul Frazier here in Edmonton,

he preached a message one time

and he said, God always

hides in the same places.

Right. And it's always

kind of stuck with me

where it's like, okay, well

he's, he's always going

to be in prayer.

You're always gonna find him there. Right.

In worship, right. In his

word. And community. Yeah.

He always hides in the same places.

And so if you're going

through those dry times Yeah.

You know, um, don't go looking

elsewhere, . Right. Yeah.

He's always gonna be in

the same places. Yeah.

And if you don't find him, you know,

that day, go looking again tomorrow.

'cause he always hides in

the same places. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I, I think another

point as you were talking, um,

if, if you could say that faith

or your amount of faith is a

marker of spiritual health, right.

You have no faith. Right.

That's obviously one thing.

And if you have lots of faith,

that's, that's another thing.

And it's important to know

that faith is way more than a feeling.

Right. Faith actually

is not a feeling at all.

And if you just mark off of

your, your mood, let's say,

or if you're having a bad day

or not, then that's really troublesome.

Right. And so God is way

bigger than your worst

day and your best day.

And so faith is anchored in

the reality of Jesus Christ,

not in the reality of my mood.

Right. And so, um, you

can be spiritually mature

and spiritually healthy

and be in a place that

feels like a desert.

Yeah. Right. You, you can

actually go through that.

And so you look at David's life, right?

Or you think of Jesus in

the desert, right? Yeah.

Is he, you know,

or on the cross, you know,

why have you forsaken me?

This sense of desert times

that doesn't necessarily equate

to spiritual and health.

Now, if there's hidden sin in your life,

if there's something that's

just kind of blatantly,

you know, disobedient

to the Lord, I mean, what do you expect?

Right? , I mean, obviously

that connection from the source

of life is gonna, is

gonna be there, but yeah.

Okay. So, uh, if you can go back, okay.

45 years ago for you

and how, when, how long

have you been serving

the Lord again, Dan?

- That's about 64,

- Something like that.

64 years. Okay. So you

can go back to Young Dan,

young Gwen mm-hmm .

And if you can give them one

piece of advice if regards

to spiritual health, what would it be?

Put you on the spot. I know. I stuff,

but what, what would you say to Young Gwen

and what would you say to young Dan?

- I think I would tell her

to just chillax a bit.

- Chillax. I love it.

- . Like, just like I,

I was so, um, I wanted

to do it absolutely right.

And I wanted to, I, so I was watching

what everybody else was doing,

and, um,

if I didn't do it right then I

was in the depths of despair.

Um, and I think I would tell young Gwen,

he's not going anywhere

and he loves you.

Just, just where you're at right now,

and sure, you gotta work on yourself.

Sure. There's some things

you gotta get rid of

and there's some things

you gotta take care of

and some things you shouldn't do,

and there's some things you

should do, but just relax

and rest in him and know that, like I said

before he started this,

he's gonna complete it.

Yeah. So just rest in him,

rest in his grace and his love,

and his, um, his perseverance

and his patience.

Um, you're gonna be okay.

- Yeah. Reminds me of, uh,

first Thessalonians four

when Paul, uh, is telling us

that Jesus Christ himself will

sanctify you through and through.

Yeah. You know that he is

doing this work in you. Yeah.

And you can resist it, right.

Sin, disobedience, apathy.

But if you surrender

yourself to the Lord, yeah.

That's just the natural

result is holiness.

The natural result is spiritual

maturity. That's right.

When you relinquish your

life. So I like that

chillax

- .

That, that, that's been

for me, the, the best.

Um, and most comforting

thing is that it's,

he's the one, he's the author

and perfecter of my faith.

Mm-hmm . He's the one who gives me, um,

what I need and he's the

one that's perfecting me.

And, uh, my part is just to

keep my eyes fixed on him.

Says, fix your eyes on Jesus, the author

and perfecter of your faith.

Uh,

- Yeah.

Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. Dan.

- I think I would say to young Dan,

this is a really good journey, .

And, um, don't neglect the one

that you're walking with.

Enjoy it. Have gratitude for it.

And, um, and the journey's important.

Let let the journey, uh, shape your life.

And, uh, that can happen

when that companion

is, uh, is the one you're

listening to along the way.

- Thank you. Thanks for being on here

and sharing your lives and wisdom with us.

And you know that God will

use it to be a blessing to

so many.