[00:00:00] Eric Goranson: It's

[00:00:09] Eric Goranson: around

[00:00:10] Caroline Blazovsky: the house. Do you have a

[00:00:11] Caroline Blazovsky: preference over a waterproofing that works well with your dream that you think is like, okay, this thing is going to hold up for 20 years.

[00:00:17] Barbara Kratus Stark: So for infinity drain, we make linear drains and center drains that will work with whatever waterproofing methods are out there.

[00:00:27] Barbara Kratus Stark: Whether it's traditional methods, like a vinyl pan liner, hot mop led pan copper pan. Or a liquid or a fabric bonded kind of modern system. And we get asked that question all the time. Waterproofing is best. And my answer to that is whatever your installer is most comfortable, right. You

[00:00:48] Caroline Blazovsky: can do well. That's it.

[00:00:50] Caroline Blazovsky: I

[00:00:50] Barbara Kratus Stark: don't want to be thinking Craig, the first time someone's trying out a new method of waterproofing, it comes to remodeling and renovating your home. There is a lot to [00:01:00] not, this is around the house.

[00:01:05] Eric Goranson: Come to around the house with Eric G and Caroline B. This is your one-stop shop for everything around your house.

[00:01:12] Eric Goranson: Hey Caroline, how are you? Excellent. This is going to be a fun show cause you know how much I love kitchen and bath stuff.

[00:01:20] Barbara Kratus Stark: Oh, just a little

[00:01:20] Caroline Blazovsky: bit. Eric's obsessed with

[00:01:22] Barbara Kratus Stark: bathroom stuff.

[00:01:24] Eric Goranson: Steam shower. 30 years of design that probably got me doing that. We have got Barbara here from infinity drain. Welcome to around the

[00:01:33] Barbara Kratus Stark: house.

[00:01:36] Barbara Kratus Stark: Oh much for having me. I'm thrilled to be on the

[00:01:38] Eric Goranson: show. This is going to be a lot of fun because people go, oh, it's a drain. Who cares? This is how you make a statement around the house. Literally,

[00:01:47] Caroline Blazovsky: I think drains are so key. Like I'm a long hair person, Eric and I were just talking. We're both growing our hair out.

[00:01:52] Caroline Blazovsky: So we were talking about. You know, that type of thing, but when you're dealing with a drain, I need a good drain because

[00:01:58] Barbara Kratus Stark: otherwise, well, not only that, I [00:02:00] feel like people never realized that they didn't like their drain until they saw one that they did like, and then they feel a little bit cheated, like. I really want this other one, whether it's decorative, whether it's a linear drain, whether it's a Thailand drain, there's so many options out there.

[00:02:18] Barbara Kratus Stark: And it really is that like, you know, cherry on top of the sundae, um, for all of the details, when you're selecting a bathroom fixtures,

[00:02:28] Eric Goranson: When you're walking into a shower that is like the diamond on the ring kind of thing, because nobody likes to see the little round $30 shower drain in the middle of the shower.

[00:02:37] Eric Goranson: That's Chrome, especially when you've got like brass or black fixtures or something like that. And it's like, you did such an amazing job and that missed the mark.

[00:02:48] Barbara Kratus Stark: Exactly. Exactly. I know it was whatever the installer had on his truck that day. And when you do take the time to specify a product like a drain, anyone who goes [00:03:00] into your bathroom, they know they thought of every last detail with the design, this

[00:03:05] Eric Goranson: space.

[00:03:06] Eric Goranson: Exactly. I wanted to use one in mine. My challenge that I had was framing down. And I had some serious issues and I was really trying to figure out how to fit it in mind. But the problem is, is my kitchen is right down below it. So beneath the floor I had, I have a 1200 CFM range hood where the duct going through that, and I could barely fit a drain into the shower, let alone put an affinity drain, but the next shower doing the.

[00:03:36] Eric Goranson: When we, when we do the addition, I've got to do that because I tell you what, there is nothing like putting in that cool drain with. And there's a lot of different ways to do it. You can almost make it disappear. You can make it be a statement piece.

[00:03:49] Barbara Kratus Stark: That's exactly right. And we could have always advised people, you know, when they, when they start talking about doing a linear drain or any type of bathroom remodel, a little planning [00:04:00] goes a long way.

[00:04:02] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, there's a ton of things to consider. Like, are you trying to achieve a barrier free bathroom or a curbless shower? You know, that that that's can be tough to do with a remodel, um, for new construction, you've got time to, you know, modify your plans and make sure that you've accounted for all your floor Heights and things like that.

[00:04:21] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, but really it's a, it has to do with a site specific conditions. And, uh, you know, what, what can we hide in the floor? How deep does the channel need to be? How much floor height do we have to work with? There's all these little calculations that go into, um, uh, installing the linear drain, um, or even even a center drain because we're working with floor pitch.

[00:04:41] Barbara Kratus Stark: We have to tell the water. Where it needs to go in order to drain water efficiently and effectively outside of that enclosure. Oh, that's a question

[00:04:49] Caroline Blazovsky: I was going to ask you. So I obviously don't know what much, as much about drains as Eric does and you do so for an amateur person. What am I looking for in a dream?

[00:04:58] Caroline Blazovsky: Like what do I want to accomplish? [00:05:00] Obviously the water to go down. Right? That's no brainer, but what do I,

[00:05:04] Barbara Kratus Stark: yeah.

[00:05:06] Caroline Blazovsky: So what am I looking for? What kind of luxuries do I have with a drain that I don't know?

[00:05:10] Barbara Kratus Stark: Yeah. So there's really, there's two parts to specifying a drain. It's which one do I like? Okay. What do I want it to look like when it's installed?

[00:05:19] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, do I want to match the finish of my fixtures? Um, is my tile or flooring material a consideration. So for instance, if you're choosing between a center drain and a linear drain, your flooring material, Could have an effect on that. So normally with a center drain or sloping the floor in a four way dish dial pitch towards the center or wherever that point point drain is located.

[00:05:45] Barbara Kratus Stark: So you normally have a smaller mosaic tile or a two by two something. Um, can, um, do that dish bowl shaped pitch easily. Now, if you're using large format [00:06:00] tile, like a 12 by 24, 12 by 12, anything like that, a linear drain can really help you out because you're sloping the floor in one plane. Now. Towards wherever that linear drain is located.

[00:06:14] Barbara Kratus Stark: So this way you've got this one plane pitch and you're not trying to cut up your large format tile, like a, like a pizza or like a pie. So flooring material is a consideration. Um, and how do you want it to look? Um, just design and what are the aesthetics of the bathroom? But then kind of when we get going to what is underneath the tile, that's all about waterproofing.

[00:06:37] Barbara Kratus Stark: Am I trying to do a barrier free bathroom or am I doing a shower with a curb? So there are quite a few considerations when you are choosing what type of drain is best for your bath. Um, so I would say style and then there's functionality. It's what type of, you know, look at my trying to achieve, um, what is the flow rate that I need?

[00:06:59] Barbara Kratus Stark: Am I designing a [00:07:00] carwash style shower? Whereas, you know, body sprays, you know, his and her. Do we need to move a lot of water out of the shower or is it a pretty shout, a standard shower set up?

[00:07:12] Eric Goranson: Well, it's funny, you know, with the trends today with the large format tiles where you're getting into like a, you know, like a 24 by 36 or something very large out there that linear drain or the barrier free, you know, curbless shower where you can take that through the bathroom.

[00:07:30] Eric Goranson: Into the shower, tilt it back towards the back wall and have that long drain along the back wall. That is such a beautiful look with a clear shower door. It just makes the room look so big and so seamless and timeless at the same time, because you don't have to change tile when you run into that.

[00:07:49] Barbara Kratus Stark: Exactly. It really expands the look of the bathroom. And then even what we're seeing a lot now is the bathroom turning into more of a wet room where you don't even [00:08:00] have a physical barrier between the wet side of the bathroom, which would be the shower enclosure and the dry side of the bathroom. And once again, that goes into waterproofing.

[00:08:08] Barbara Kratus Stark: So how are you going to waterproof this huge space and what type of drain channel and system works better? With the installation methods that you're using.

[00:08:19] Eric Goranson: Yeah. So true. And one thing too, that I, I'm not a big fan of the big, huge wet room, because you've got to really try hard in there. If you've got the right air flow and stuff, that can be a cooler room.

[00:08:31] Eric Goranson: If you've got that designed, right. I've had more clients that have wanted to do that in the past. And I left an option in there that they didn't know about for a shower door that we blocked it and everything else, because, but half the time the clients go, Hey, it's really cool. But as soon as I back away from that water, I'm freaking.

[00:08:51] Eric Goranson: Yeah.

[00:08:52] Barbara Kratus Stark: And we even in the shower door where it's just, um, a stationary piece of glass and then the other section [00:09:00] is totally open. Yep. Um, yeah. These are all things to consider. Like how are you really going to use this space? What is it going to feel like? Um, things look really cool in magazines and on Pinterest.

[00:09:11] Barbara Kratus Stark: Uh, but how is it, how are you really going to. How the space is set

[00:09:16] Eric Goranson: up. If I get the licensing from pictures, I would write a book of Pinterest fails. That just were pretty pictures of things that you could never pull a permit on, or probably should ever do in your.

[00:09:30] Barbara Kratus Stark: Yeah, we actually, you know, I've been with infinity drain for almost 12 years and over the years I've seen a lot of installations and, you know, we, uh, we, we, we keep some images that are, that are bad installs that are actually excellent training.

[00:09:46] Barbara Kratus Stark: On what not too. So it's good to see what you should do, but it's also great to see what you should avoid and not do exactly. How about

[00:09:54] Caroline Blazovsky: if you are building on a slab or a structure where you don't have something below you, right? So, or [00:10:00] you have something below you and you can't go into, you know, a second story where you can drop things down into, um, between the stunning w does that affect a drain?

[00:10:09] Caroline Blazovsky: I mean, or doing type of infinity?

[00:10:12] Barbara Kratus Stark: Yeah, and more for a barrier for your curbless showers. If you're doing a shower with a curb, which is, uh, a step over, um, you can hide the slope of the shower within that curb. And the curb can be a varying Heights depending on the size of the shower enclosure. Um, if it's new construction and you're building on a slab, sometimes we will see the set that portion of the wet area of the shower reset.

[00:10:40] Barbara Kratus Stark: In the poor, they block that out because they've planned ahead. Um, but yeah, for remodels barrier, free showers on a slab, like on a first floor, they're tough to do, like I'm not going to sugar coat it, it's not easy. Um, but if you've got a basement or if you're doing it on an [00:11:00] upper floor, As do sister Joyce and other methods to be able to recess that into the floor.

[00:11:07] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, but yeah, it, it, first floor slab remodel. That's going to be tough to do barrier free, but really if you're planning on doing a shower with a curb, you can do just about anything because you're hiding the slope within

[00:11:20] Eric Goranson: that curve. Yeah, just because the floor is at one level, that curb lets you reset to another level behind it.

[00:11:26] Eric Goranson: It's not as big a deal and you won't notice that you're stepping up and over and maybe that's at a different height than what the shower than what the floor in the bathroom is versus the shower floor itself. Yeah.

[00:11:36] Barbara Kratus Stark: And you really won't ever know because visually you've got this physical curve that you're stepping in and out.

[00:11:43] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, so yeah, it's a, it's a great way to, uh, to, uh, you know, hide the, hide the sins of the, uh, the slope of the shower floor, but normally a shower for slope is a quarter inch per foot. So it's rise versus run equation. So the [00:12:00] farther you get away from the drain, the more. Floor height buildup. You have so drain placement within the shower.

[00:12:07] Barbara Kratus Stark: Enclosure can also possibly save you floor height as well. So knowing which wall you're going to put it on, or even if you're going to place it along the threshold or the entrance of the shower, um, can help you cheat a little bit and gain some floor Heights.

[00:12:23] Eric Goranson: That's awesome. Yeah. And, and Caroline is getting ready to do her basement shower here.

[00:12:28] Eric Goranson: So we've been talking about this for a few months now, and, and those are some of the challenges with an older home and concrete floor, how to do that.

[00:12:38] Barbara Kratus Stark: And knowing too, like, you know who,

[00:12:40] Caroline Blazovsky: so who is the expert? So I always ask Eric, but who's the expert that you consult when you're looking at a drain? I mean, is it someone like, is your tile person, or should you be going to getting a kitchen and bath consultant?

[00:12:50] Barbara Kratus Stark: Who does. So the bad answer is the drain is the gray area where the plumber and the tile probe, [00:13:00] who installs the drain may have something to do with what type of waterproof. They're using in the shower enclosure. Uh, so traditionally, uh, the plumber is who installed the drain and you selected your drain through a plumbing wholesaler showroom counter.

[00:13:21] Barbara Kratus Stark: Wherever. Um, so those traditional methods of waterproofing, for instance, or like a vinyl pan liner boring. That's why my

[00:13:30] Caroline Blazovsky: plumber never puts anything like this in like, I hire him and I have a boring

[00:13:33] Barbara Kratus Stark: drain. Oh, for sure. Because it was whatever was on his truck. And also he got it at the county. But through a decorative plumbing and hardware showroom, that is where your design options really open up with different styles and finishes.

[00:13:51] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, so wherever you're selecting your other fixtures, your faucets, shower, head vanity mirrors, lighting, those [00:14:00] showrooms also sell shower drains as well, and they will sell, um, you know, the much more upgraded decorative version of what you find at the wholesale.

[00:14:10] Eric Goranson: That's where that designer also helps you because as a homeowner going in, you have not seen all of the options out there, rarely, uh, of what are the options are and your designer goes, okay, well, what are you gonna do for the shower drain?

[00:14:23] Eric Goranson: And many times the homeowner gives you. This kind of glazed overlook of like, is that something to consider? And then, you know, they refer back to the six pictures that they found on Pinterest that three of them had a linear drain and now they understand what's going on. You know what I mean? And that's where that happens.

[00:14:41] Eric Goranson: And so then they guide you as the homeowner to, Hey, why don't you go down to that luxury, you know, plumbing wholesaler, take a peak. In C keeps them out of the home centers and actually look at products that would work exactly for, they want to do, and then they can order or get in what [00:15:00] they need to little fit that application.

[00:15:02] Eric Goranson: But at the same time that designers working with the plumber and making sure that plumber and tile-setter are talking together, because if you rely on those two, as the homeowner, as a DIY, they better be friends. Otherwise that's can be a very tough situation to get those two.

[00:15:17] Barbara Kratus Stark: Yes exactly. So going through a decorative plumbing showroom, I would say that's your primary primary source for sourcing luxury decorative drainage solutions?

[00:15:30] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, there's also, uh, the drain could be sourced through the tile setter and that is normally done if they are doing, um, Uh, waterproofing system like Schluter, weedy, um, other methods that are really specific to a tile setter that their products are sold through tile distributors. Um, so those complete shower systems, those companies will sometimes also [00:16:00] offer a drain solution that works with their complete shower system.

[00:16:05] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, so kind of, it could go either way, it could go through the plumber. It could go through the tile setter. A lot of times it has to do with the waterproofing. Um, but the plumber will always set the waistline. Where is the waistline located in the shower? And that's always something that needs to be in the plans or the drawing as well.

[00:16:24] Barbara Kratus Stark: Where is the waistline located within the shower enclosure, because standard would be in the middle center center drain. But if you're doing a linear drain system, that waistline needs to be positioned correctly from the beginning. And what

[00:16:39] Eric Goranson: happens Carolinas, the plumber will come in. They'll rough it in, they'll usually put it in toddler, what it needs to be.

[00:16:45] Eric Goranson: And then when that tile Centre comes in and puts in that shower base, whatever system they're doing, they're setting that drain within that process and cutting the pipe off and setting that drain system over the top. And I'll tell you what some of those [00:17:00] shower systems, I'm not going to talk about anybody specifically.

[00:17:03] Eric Goranson: Some of those are not easy to install even for the tile centers that do every day. Uh, I have seen some, some very high-end professionals sit there for 25 minutes, struggling trying to get the system in that they've put in a thousand times. And they still have to fight it to get in. It's not easy sometimes with some of these companies that have their own shower system and drain.

[00:17:27] Eric Goranson: Yeah.

[00:17:27] Barbara Kratus Stark: And another thing to consider with the complete shower system is that those companies are great at making. Waterproofing or tile installation materials. They don't really know the plumbing that well, and they don't have the design options, finishes custom capabilities that a drain manufacturer that who focuses on that specifically would be able to provide a client.

[00:17:56] Barbara Kratus Stark: I think that's the

[00:17:57] Caroline Blazovsky: hard piece. We're always looking. So obviously [00:18:00] I look at mold and my job as an environmental consultant is to look at moldy situations and fix them. And my clients come to me all the time and they're asking me, okay, well, you know, which plumber should I use? Which Tyler, which system should I use?

[00:18:12] Caroline Blazovsky: And the biggest concern I have is obviously the waterproofing aspect. Like that's the first and foremost, I want your shower to be dry for the next 20 years and not have to replace it seven years down the road. Like we're seeing now with these new shower and these, you know, past shower systems that just don't hold up.

[00:18:25] Caroline Blazovsky: Well, do you have a preference over a waterproofing that works well with your drain that you think is like, okay, this thing's going to hold

[00:18:32] Barbara Kratus Stark: up for 20. So for infinity drain, we make linear drains and center drains that will work with whatever waterproofing methods are out there. Whether it's traditional methods, like a vinyl pan liner, hot mop led pan copper pan, or a liquid or a fabric bonded kind of modern system.

[00:18:53] Barbara Kratus Stark: And we get asked that question all the time. W waterproofing is best. And my answer to that [00:19:00] is whatever your installer is most comfortable with doing do well. That's it. I don't want to be the Guinea pig the first time someone's trying out a new method of waterproofing. Um, so yeah, I mean, as a drain company, we don't really marry ourselves to one type of waterproofing.

[00:19:19] Barbara Kratus Stark: We make drains that work with any type of waterproofing. Um, that being said, um, the modern types of waterproofing, the bonded, uh, liquid or fabric, those are really becoming popular. Um, so we're seeing a lot more of those. Whereas 10 years ago, you know, the vinyl pan liners and the traditional methods were still the total mainstream, you know, 95% of the install way to go.

[00:19:44] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, so those newer methods are catching on now, um, in regards to your concerns with mold and things like that. What's great about the newer types of waterproof. Fabric or liquid is that the, um, tile can be [00:20:00] applied directly on top of that waterproofing membrane. So you don't have water seeping through Tyler grout cause Tyler grout are not waterproof.

[00:20:14] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, and water can penetrate those surfaces. Um, and this way with the newer systems, they are not soaking into the mortar. Which they would with a traditional type of waterproofing. And then the water gets directed back to the weeping system of the clamping floor drain. Um, but yeah, I would say and

[00:20:33] Eric Goranson: torn one of those out there.

[00:20:35] Eric Goranson: Nasty. They're nasty down there. When you go to tear one out that, uh, I've been there for demo day and many of the bathrooms I've done with that system and I'm like, oh, going outside, that's

[00:20:47] Barbara Kratus Stark: disgusting. Mel's I tell my

[00:20:49] Caroline Blazovsky: clients all the time. It's not about. If you have mold, you do have mold and I can find mold in any home.

[00:20:56] Caroline Blazovsky: That's not the problem. It's the degree of it because every bathroom is going to sweat. [00:21:00] Its poorest, the vapor goes right through and you're going to have a nasty condition. So I like these new systems. Like she'll lose her. We've been recommending them since I guess about, I guess they came out like 2005, but when we were recommending them, people didn't know what, any type of system, you know, they, they were like, what are you talking about?

[00:21:16] Caroline Blazovsky: And then you couldn't get installer. So now it's getting more commonplace, which is nice.

[00:21:20] Barbara Kratus Stark: Yeah, it definitely is. You know, we make a linear drain system that is compliant, which looters a full system warranty. We worked with them, um, on getting that signed off by them. It's a great system that they offer.

[00:21:35] Barbara Kratus Stark: They do an excellent job educating installers. They have education classes across the country. Um, so yeah, I mean, We, uh, work with them quite frequently. I'm on commercial projects. And then now on the residential side with our new FCS series X

[00:21:52] Caroline Blazovsky: as well, right Eric, we like Arctics products too. There, there weren't.

[00:21:56] Eric Goranson: I did the, a weedy, a vapor ready [00:22:00] system in mind. Cause I had a steam shower. That was nice. I actually had. A training session with their three west coast reps in my bathroom, we did it as a project that we filmed at my house. So I had three a week reps in there, which was awesome because, uh, there was, it was all just, I knew it was going to get done.

[00:22:17] Eric Goranson: Right. We'll leave it at that. You know, I have not done a vapor system before, so I had a good brain trust, you know, one of the things with linear drains and curbless showers that I want people to really think about. Before they even installed is make sure that that is sized correctly because all it takes with a curbless shower is a little bit of a slow drain.

[00:22:41] Eric Goranson: And you now have water all over the bathroom and your brain does not read that water in the shower. Maybe your shampoo in your hair or doing something like that. If you're in a curved shower, you're like, Hey, there's water over the top of my feet. You could have a half inch of water in the shower, [00:23:00] if it's drained one way and it starting to head for the, for the vanity or the bathroom doors.

[00:23:04] Eric Goranson: So you've got to really plan things ahead and make sure you stay up on your maintenance with. So it works correctly.

[00:23:10] Barbara Kratus Stark: Absolutely. And in addition to making sure that the hair catcher is cleaned out, that the linear drain channel is debris. You also, during the construction phase, want to make sure that you have waterproofed the dry side of your bathrooms.

[00:23:27] Barbara Kratus Stark: And it's really easy to do that with a liquid membrane paint on roll-on style of waterproofing. Um, so we always recommend a quarter inch per foot slope within the shower enclosure. But when you're doing barrier free, you would also want to consider putting a really gentle eighth, 16th of an inch per foot slope on the dry side of the bathroom as well.

[00:23:50] Barbara Kratus Stark: That way any moisture or water is getting redirected back to where the drain is located.

[00:23:56] Eric Goranson: That's exactly what I did. Cause I actually put in the heated floor in there [00:24:00] and I did the X system in there. And so we ended up using their, um, their, after we put the RDX down, we floated in their floor leveler, and then we kicked it to the opposite wall a little bit before it's set up.

[00:24:13] Eric Goranson: And so he gave us that slope. So of when water comes out, it's not heading down the hallway, out the door, it's actually kicking back towards the shower and that that's a good way to go. So you don't do that, but you're right.

[00:24:26] Caroline Blazovsky: Clog up your drain. I mean, you could have a BA you know, your septic good backup, and if it backs up, you could end up with a coming out.

[00:24:32] Caroline Blazovsky: I never thought about that. Yeah.

[00:24:34] Eric Goranson: It's all about a little water control.

[00:24:38] Barbara Kratus Stark: Not everyone has a horror story about drain maintenance at some point in their, in their lives. So their tails. Yeah.

[00:24:46] Eric Goranson: But it's something that you've always, we talk about it in our spring and fall checklist here on the show. You just got to go do it.

[00:24:53] Eric Goranson: There is not a. A drain that is a hundred percent clogged proof out there because if you to [00:25:00] get, build

[00:25:00] Barbara Kratus Stark: up, you're on their head, that this is a question that comes up a lot when we're doing trade shows and they're like, whoa, this is such a cold drain. Does this mean I don't have to clean it? It's like, no, it's still a drain.

[00:25:13] Barbara Kratus Stark: You're still showering. You know, hair is still coming off of your head. You know, it's a normal drain. It's just a long. The skinny, rectangular strain. Um, so yeah, there is always maintenance to be done with a drain to keep it flowing smoothly and efficiently.

[00:25:31] Eric Goranson: You know, one of the things I like that you guys have in your linear drains is you have it where you can put the tile in there so that you hide that big piece of metal.

[00:25:41] Eric Goranson: For instance, if you wanted to, to have something where it looked like a slab floor or a large format tile, you can make. Really that drain kind of hide away in there much more so than just having that decorative piece.

[00:25:55] Barbara Kratus Stark: Oh, absolutely. The Thailand cert frame is our most popular style. It's [00:26:00] totally a fan favorite, whether it's a center drain or linear drain, um, you know, the tray itself comes empty.

[00:26:08] Barbara Kratus Stark: So this way your tile setter can line up any patterns or grout lines or veining. If you're. um, so it's really, it makes the drain disappear. You still have full access to the waistline and the hair catcher for cleaning and servicing the drain. Um, but it really, I would say that is like the showstopper drain and it's, uh, it's where is the drain?

[00:26:30] Barbara Kratus Stark: And you're like, exactly. That's the point on. Cool.

[00:26:34] Eric Goranson: Does that still work pretty well with, with hair and things like that? Cause you know, you're used to that, that big grate on the top and that many times that's the hair catcher.

[00:26:44] Barbara Kratus Stark: Right. So most linear drains come with a supplemental hair catcher in addition to whatever would catch on the top.

[00:26:52] Barbara Kratus Stark: Great. What we call that decorative piece. Um, so, you know, I know we have this really deep kind of cone shaped [00:27:00] basket, and we actually gave it to everyone in our office. So either, you know, wives or themselves had very like long, thick hair, It was almost a test of who can keep this in their shower the longest without.

[00:27:15] Barbara Kratus Stark: And we had some folks go a couple months without cleaning it and it, you know, it just, it catches a lot. It's still, you still have a really good flow rate. Um, so definitely take a look at your, at your hair catcher with, with any type of drain, whether it's a center drain or, or a linear drain. Um, and, uh, you know, you're going to have to do clean that out every now and then, but most drains come with that, whether you use it or not is up to you.

[00:27:41] Barbara Kratus Stark: But most drains systems from any manufacturer will come with some type of hair catcher. Well, I also

[00:27:47] Eric Goranson: see you guys do exterior drains as well, because I tell you what, you know, you do a lot of looking out there and you've got, you know, maybe it's the drain around the pool or the driveway. And you've got maybe a stainless steel and a black [00:28:00] plastic or a green plastic that looks really not directly.

[00:28:04] Eric Goranson: But for outside, whether you're doing maybe that stand-up exterior shower or it's the drain around the pool or something in the driveway. You guys have owned that as well.

[00:28:15] Barbara Kratus Stark: Yeah. It's this idea of having architectural drains on the exterior of your home. You know, something that, you know, really has a great look to it.

[00:28:26] Barbara Kratus Stark: That's going to hold up. Well, um, Our exterior drains for the top grade, we used three 16, L 12 gauge stainless steel. Um, so it's really heavy duty as a beautiful look to it. And, you know, it's for those people, you want something nicer. And, you know, we get, uh, specified a lot through architects and also landscape designers and architects who, you know, they were looking for an upgrade.

[00:28:51] Barbara Kratus Stark: To that PVC, you know, drain grate that, you know, you normally see an exterior applications.

[00:28:59] Eric Goranson: I think [00:29:00] it's really cool. Cause you can have that maybe that sliding glass door or that really nice wall system of glass that can move away. And when you bring the tile and the living space out onto that exterior deck surface, you can put that decorative great right there next to that door.

[00:29:17] Eric Goranson: So if you've got strong water or something, come back in. You'll never notice it because it just looks that good. And it's not this ugly drain system. You go, wow. That's not hot.

[00:29:29] Barbara Kratus Stark: Exactly. And you can even use styles like the Thailand cert. But put your pavers or whatever type of exterior hardscaping that you're using within that tray to now it's totally blending into the rest of the space, but you're getting that drainage functionality, which is really cool.

[00:29:48] Barbara Kratus Stark: Just the awesome paver systems. Eric

[00:29:50] Caroline Blazovsky: knows I've done. I did our driveway and it was. Quite expensive. And you don't want something that just looks like a PVC drain. I mean, it looks horrible and you do [00:30:00] need to have some drainage, especially if you've got quite a big paver area with water going off to the side.

[00:30:05] Caroline Blazovsky: So we had to do something like that and we put in a much more decorative looking drain because you just don't want this ugly. You know, plasticky looking thing. When you've spent all this money doing a paver system that doesn't look

[00:30:17] Barbara Kratus Stark: good. It's the same concept in the bathroom where you're like, why would I put in the $15 strainer when I went all this time and effort to pick out my fixtures and my tile or lighting, it's the same thing outside.

[00:30:32] Barbara Kratus Stark: It's those finishing touches where it's like, oh, this is the level of finish that matches the rest of. This project, whether it's residential or commercial, whatever it is. So, um, yeah, I mean, it's a great option to have. I'm sure they're probably more expensive than, you know, what you're going to find at, at a wholesaler.

[00:30:53] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, but it's really going to give you that high end look and just the longevity of the material itself, um, is [00:31:00] going to, you know, last for a very long time and have, you know, really good minimal upkeep to it. So we

[00:31:07] Caroline Blazovsky: know we don't want people going to Pinterest to like, Examples. So where should people go to find your products, but really to S where do you think the best showroom?

[00:31:16] Caroline Blazovsky: Or how should people go plan this out? Because I think that's key is finding a good showroom and making sure you have one

[00:31:21] Barbara Kratus Stark: available. Yeah. And you know, our products are available across the United States in, you know, showrooms, large and small, um, you know, a lot of showrooms. You've got, you know, national players, like a Ferguson regional players.

[00:31:37] Barbara Kratus Stark: You've got small mom and pops, um, or independent dealers, you know, I would find the. Find someone who one you're comfortable working with. Um, number two, you know, look for that expert, someone who is going to be able to put the whole space. Together. And, you know, I would [00:32:00] say a good sales person in a showroom.

[00:32:02] Barbara Kratus Stark: They aren't afraid to call the manufacturer and ask questions. Um, when, you know, you've decided on, you know, whatever fixture it is, like, you know, let's make sure that everything is going to work well together. Um, but yeah, I would definitely go through a plumbing showroom, a tile showroom somewhere, somewhere where you can talk to an expert and say, this is what I want it to look like.

[00:32:27] Barbara Kratus Stark: Can you help me figure out what exactly I need.

[00:32:30] Eric Goranson: See my secret place I go to here in Portland, Oregon, as I popped down to Chown

[00:32:34] Barbara Kratus Stark: hardware, Chad is a great customer of ours. I adore them.

[00:32:39] Eric Goranson: They are easy. They've been around for 142 years now, I think. And they are one of those family run companies where the family that is running at 142 years later.

[00:32:53] Eric Goranson: Is just as good as the founders, as far as running the business and they are the unicorn out there, but it's [00:33:00] fun to see a company that is still family run that is doing better with it. Every single.

[00:33:07] Barbara Kratus Stark: So what's really cool. And one thing that I love about being in the plumbing industry is there are so many businesses just like town.

[00:33:17] Barbara Kratus Stark: They are family run. You know, they've been in these families for years and years. The owner of infinity drain his great grandfather actually owned Simon's hardware in New York city on third avenue. There. He is like multiple generations in the decorative plumbing and hardware industry. And it really is, you know, this kind of family atmosphere, which is so much fun.

[00:33:45] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, but yeah, those independent dealers, they are incredibly knowledgeable. They have great relationships with their manufacturers. Um, they are fantastic to work with. Absolutely. I see that

[00:33:59] Eric Goranson: on your [00:34:00] website, you guys have those, uh, stainless steel pans. What is the application for those?

[00:34:06] Barbara Kratus Stark: Yeah. Okay. So this is a stainless steel shower base.

[00:34:10] Barbara Kratus Stark: It is fully welded. It's basically taking the place of, of your waterproofing. Okay. So it is, you know, we have standard sizes for quantity. We can do a custom fabrication, um, but it takes the place of your waterproofing. It makes installation really fast. This goes right on top of your sub floor. Um, it's, pre-coated.

[00:34:35] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, with a primer. So it's ready to tile. Basically. You are. Building your placing your studs around this enclosure, putting your cement board down or whatever type of waterproofing waterproof wallboard you're using. Um, and you're tiling and the drain is integral to it. Uh, it's got a lifetime waterproofing warranty.

[00:34:58] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, so we originally designed. [00:35:00] Product for commercial applications. So multi-family residential hospitality where they just want to bang out the showers, you know, heads in the beds. That's what you want. So you want to do the renovations as quickly as possible. Um, but then we started getting some interest on the showroom side, on the retail side for a product like this as well.

[00:35:19] Barbara Kratus Stark: So now we have it available to anyone and it takes that coordination of the tray. And makes it pretty seamless between the carpenter, the plumber and the tile setter. Because like we said before, it's hard to have like a meeting of the minds with those three trades. And so this takes a lot of the guesswork and really standardizes the shape of the shower, how the shower is installed and makes it easy on the installation.

[00:35:49] Barbara Kratus Stark: And it sounds like

[00:35:50] Caroline Blazovsky: something I would like on my slab. Because I have this slab bathroom that's on top and it's been like a moisture control issue. Right? Cause you can imagine you've got a slab that's [00:36:00] constantly breeding moisture and vapor through. So the shower becomes just the Mecca of. Um, and I've tried everything.

[00:36:07] Caroline Blazovsky: So that would, that would constitute your base. So that would be your base set up. And can you custom, I have a very small area for shower and very limited because it's, uh, it's, uh, you know, it's like a third bathroom, so it's not anything that's large. So can I custom that to the size I need? Or how does.

[00:36:24] Barbara Kratus Stark: Our standard sizes. It's a 60 by 30, um, kind of a tub to shower conversion. We can do some custom fabrication. Normally we're doing custom fabrication for larger quantities. Um, but you're lucky, you know, someone in the drain game now,

[00:36:45] Barbara Kratus Stark: Springs for you on that. But yeah, it's a really cool. Um, and I think the best part is, is that we carry the warranty on the waterproofing. So if there's any issue with a waterproofing failure down the line, you [00:37:00] call up infinity drain and we take care of the replacement removal, um, like materials, the labor, all of that.

[00:37:08] Barbara Kratus Stark: Whereas normally with anyone else, if you have a waterproofing failure, they're like, oh, well it looks like you need to remodel your bathroom. There's not a lot of calm homeowner's insurance.

[00:37:18] Eric Goranson: Well here, here's the funny thing. And I watched this, it was probably last season of this old house. I watched him do a copper pan and they had soldered the corners and I'm like, okay, that's all cute.

[00:37:29] Eric Goranson: But those soldered corners to me are a weak spot within that because it's not made out of one piece. So that was kind of my concern. I'm like, okay. The whole thought of having something in there. You guys can put it in there. It can be welded. It's banned. It's done at a much different way than if it's just a soldered piece.

[00:37:48] Eric Goranson: And so I thought that was really cool. Yeah.

[00:37:51] Barbara Kratus Stark: I mean, any waterproofing is going to get flood tested or it should get flood tested before. Uh, you move on to the next [00:38:00] step. Um, but yeah, I always find what, one of the things, when I, when I started in the drain industry, I found very interesting was how regional waterproofing was.

[00:38:08] Barbara Kratus Stark: And you just mentioned as this old house in copper pans. So really the Northeast, that's the only place you're going to see a copper pan in New York city. We're still doing led pants. Um, Southern California,

[00:38:19] Eric Goranson: that's hot, hot tar, and then California. Yeah, hot,

[00:38:24] Barbara Kratus Stark: you know, call out the trade, its own specific trade that you call.

[00:38:28] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, and then everyone else kind of does this vinyl pan liner thing, unless they're doing a fabric or a liquid modern system. So yeah, it, that was very surprising to me. I thought everyone just did it the same way, but that is not the case. And it's strange like

[00:38:43] Caroline Blazovsky: Eric and I find that all the time. I'm in the Northeast and he's in Portland and the west.

[00:38:47] Caroline Blazovsky: And so we it's so vastly different how we do construction, which is kind of amazing because you don't think it is, but it is. And especially showers here are very different. Like you said, we're doing, we still see a lot of the led [00:39:00] pans. We've been seeing a lot of the traditional mud, um, which is, you know, not so much what they see

[00:39:05] Eric Goranson: out west.

[00:39:06] Eric Goranson: Yeah. We're much less of that out here. We're probably. From what I'm seeing out there. I think we're probably close on, at least in the Northwest up here, we're probably 60 or 70%, you know, of the new shower systems, the sliders, the wet is the art Xs and all those guys. That's where really everything's going because a lot of those new guys are like, I, I'm not doing this.

[00:39:33] Eric Goranson: Dry pack stuff. I I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep moving. I don't have time for that. Yeah.

[00:39:38] Barbara Kratus Stark: Well, I think what they've found is that it's a faster install. There's less dry time, you know, it's way easier for them. It makes their job easier. So, you know, Some people like to adopt what we have found is, you know, kind of sometimes the plumbing trade is hesitant to change and to learn new [00:40:00] things.

[00:40:00] Barbara Kratus Stark: I know that's probably really shocking. Yeah. Um, but the tiles better is the tile trade we have found are very hungry for information and what is the latest and the greatest and the best and train me on it. And I want to learn. And, um, so we find that, that, that, that, you know, kind of section of the trail, Um, they're up on the latest materials and solutions that are out there.

[00:40:24] Barbara Kratus Stark: There are hungry for information and, you know, they're really willing to try new things that are going to be better solutions for their clients, but also make their jobs easier as well.

[00:40:33] Eric Goranson: Yeah. We've had Jason McDaniel from global tile posse and his crew on here before. That's an interesting debate, getting into technology and those guys, because it is a knockdown drag them out.

[00:40:46] Eric Goranson: And I kind of love getting the popcorn out and watching it, but, uh, good people. But, uh, there's the old school guys and the new school guys and they like to, it's like a.

[00:40:58] Barbara Kratus Stark: It really is, you know, [00:41:00] there's folks out there, this is how I've done it. I've never had a shower pan fail. Great. Keep doing what you're doing.

[00:41:10] Barbara Kratus Stark: And then anyone who wants to try something new there's options out there for them

[00:41:13] Eric Goranson: too. Absolutely. Before we run out here, I wanted to ask you, what do you see? Moving forward, we're shower drains. What are some of the new stuff that you guys have been coming out with and a style-wise what do you think is the next direction for cool shower

[00:41:28] Barbara Kratus Stark: stuff?

[00:41:28] Barbara Kratus Stark: Oh my gosh. That's always what we're thinking. What what's next? Let's see in 2020, which I still feel like is a new product because of COVID. Uh, we launched a slight drain, which is kind of the old summit, make the drain disappear drain. Um, it's just a three eights of an inch reveal underneath the tile is a full-sized channel.

[00:41:53] Barbara Kratus Stark: So you still get that good flow rate. Um, so kind of what we're seeing is how do you make the drain [00:42:00] disappear even more? Uh, but still have full access and functionality to the waistline. So the slot drain is something that's really cool. Um, we're always looking at what are, what are the next finishes that are going to be popular?

[00:42:13] Barbara Kratus Stark: You know, it's this it's been for the last couple of years. This satin brass satin bronze is bronzy brassy tones. Um, going into gold tones. Matt black has just gone bonkers over the last couple of years, but what's next. Eric likes the black,

[00:42:31] Eric Goranson: my whole showers matte

[00:42:32] Barbara Kratus Stark: black, black is red, but what's going to be next.

[00:42:35] Barbara Kratus Stark: So, you know what, we're seeing a lot in appliances right now is this kind of like gunmetal black stainless. And, you know, is that kind of, is that setting the trend for what we will end up seeing? In the bathroom. So for custom finishes, we're seeing more requests for that gun metal kind of black stainless type of look.

[00:42:56] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, we do custom finishes. [00:43:00] Um, and yeah, I would say we've done some rose gold, uh, and really that black, you know, that smokey black, um, that's what we're seeing

[00:43:08] Eric Goranson: goal is so hard because there's 42 different rows gold.

[00:43:12] Barbara Kratus Stark: Oh, yes. Same with like any of the bronze or like brass tones. It's like, well, who's brass.

[00:43:19] Barbara Kratus Stark: Who's bronze. So

[00:43:21] Eric Goranson: yeah. It's Brizo versus Kohler versus, you know, let's go down the list. Yeah.

[00:43:27] Barbara Kratus Stark: Everyone's looks a little bit different. The great thing with the drain though, is that the drain is on the floor and the fixtures are on the wall. So at least they're not right next to each other. So if you're pretty close, it's going to look great.

[00:43:41] Eric Goranson: So true. So true. It's the people out there. And I had this as a designer I'd had, when rose gold had first come out, they were wanting to mix two different brands. It was like, I think it was Kohler and Brizo. We're not doing this. It's not going to work. This is going to look horrible. Pick one or the other.

[00:43:57] Eric Goranson: Cause this is, those are not going to play well [00:44:00] together. I promise. Cause they're just different.

[00:44:03] Barbara Kratus Stark: Yeah, it's tough. And, you know, during COVID, when showrooms were closed, um, or, you know, it was hard to get in and people were still doing remodels. You know, they were basically making their selections over like a zoom call with their sales associate or, you know, looking at finishes online that always look different on a screen.

[00:44:23] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, so yeah, it's finishes are tough. And especially when you're mixing manufacturers, no, one's looks exactly the same. Well, the

[00:44:33] Eric Goranson: same thing goes with kitchens and appliances. You know, the, the black stainless of brand a and brand B are completely different. So you've got to be a little bit careful with that because one looks more charcoal and it looks more black when it has more stainless showing through it.

[00:44:46] Eric Goranson: It's not a standard color, like it used to be with white, black, Harvest gold.

[00:44:53] Barbara Kratus Stark: Exactly. I think that stresses the importance also of get into your plumbing [00:45:00] showroom. See these finishes and fixtures in real life touch. See, feel them play with the handles, feel the weight of them. Um, it's real. I mean, you're spending a lot of money on your remodel or your upgrades, whatever you're doing the bathroom, like let's make sure that you're, you're getting the best value for your money.

[00:45:17] Barbara Kratus Stark: I

[00:45:18] Caroline Blazovsky: think we should encourage people to go in to showrooms. Just like we go in to see the newest car, you know, just go and like take a. And, you know, we're always looking for things to do and to expand their horizons and go in and check out all of this kind of stuff and see what's going on and kitchens and bath.

[00:45:32] Caroline Blazovsky: I mean, Eric has opened my eyes to so much technology and all of these amazing things that happen in kitchens and bathrooms. And there's all kinds of shows out there that you can get your hands on. It's just

[00:45:43] Barbara Kratus Stark: fun, you know, it's a good time. Yeah, it's great. I have two bathroom remodels coming up and you know, I've been in the plumbing industry for almost 15 years, but I'm still going to a showroom to pick out my fixtures because I want to see everything.

[00:45:59] Barbara Kratus Stark: And [00:46:00] a touch see, feel, you know, before I make that, that commitment to the product. So I think it's really important to go support your local showrooms and really pick the brain of those experts who are there. I mean, they are there to help you specify and create your dream space and they have a wealth of knowledge on, you know, everything that goes into putting a bathroom together and many different manufacturers that can give you those solutions.

[00:46:26] Barbara Kratus Stark: So, you know, why not? You know, use them as a resource and, um, you know, they're just, that's their job. They're there to help you. And, and, and more importantly, if something goes wrong, they're held there to help you there as well.

[00:46:41] Eric Goranson: They're there to save you because what happens is, is you can do all the research on Google that you want.

[00:46:49] Eric Goranson: And then you go in and say, okay, I want to get this. And they look at you a little funny. Are you sure about that? I had 12 of those returned in the last eight weeks. Do you really want to do one of [00:47:00] those and you go, I didn't see that in the Google reviews. Yeah. Do you really want to do this?

[00:47:06] Barbara Kratus Stark: Right. And especially right now with supply chain issues, those sales associates, they know the manufacturers lead times how quickly they can get product, whether those lead times match up with the timeline of your project.

[00:47:22] Barbara Kratus Stark: I mean, really they, they are like the Oracle, when it comes to specifying.

[00:47:29] Eric Goranson: And when you get that brand, you'll get the brand that you ordered, not some bad knockoff that you can get online. So that's the other part, too, exactly. To trying to buy coach purses online. They might not have spoken coach. Right.

[00:47:42] Eric Goranson: But it kind of looks at well, Barbara, what's the best place for people to go to take a look at what you guys do.

[00:47:50] Barbara Kratus Stark: So our website is awesome. Infinity drain.com and that's drain with, with no S infinity drain. Um, we have [00:48:00] image galleries, spec, sheets, installation, videos, kind of all the resources that you would need, um, to see what is this style?

[00:48:09] Barbara Kratus Stark: What do I want it to look like? And then. What is going on under the floor and what do I need? We also have other resources like linear drain guides, barrier, free guides. Um, really, so you can kind of teach yourself kind of bone up on, uh, what you need to be thinking about and considering if you're specifying a linear drain or even a center drain for your shack.

[00:48:31] Barbara Kratus Stark: So, yeah, I would send people right to our website. Um, there's also a dealer locator on our website. If you'd like to find a, a local dealer who can then help you make that selection and, you know, give you confidence around what you've, what you've

[00:48:45] Eric Goranson: chosen. Well, that way you can take that metal sample of the drain that you want to use and walk over next to the faucet you want to put in that shower or in the bathroom there and see how things play together and whether or not you need to get a custom finish or something's going to match.

[00:48:59] Eric Goranson: [00:49:00] That's exactly right. Thanks for coming on today. Is there anything that we missed that we didn't talk about today?

[00:49:06] Barbara Kratus Stark: The only other thing I would mention, uh, in regards to infinity drain is, um, all of our product is made in the U S we're based in Amityville, New York. We use only domestic prophets cereals and we're a family owned business.

[00:49:19] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, so when I started infinity drain, we were actually packing up drains in a basement. Um, so we've come a long ways and, um, but I think we have a really cool story, which you can read about on our website. And, uh, we're the ultimate drain nerds. This is all we do. And we live boring

[00:49:35] Eric Goranson: in Amityville basement.

[00:49:36] Eric Goranson: That sounds almost scary.

[00:49:42] Eric Goranson: All right. Well, thanks Barbara for coming on today. We really appreciate it. This has.

[00:49:47] Barbara Kratus Stark: Well, thanks so much. It's been a pleasure. Have really loved it.

[00:49:50] Eric Goranson: I'm Eric G and I'm

[00:49:52] Caroline Blazovsky: Caroline B and you've been [00:50:00] listening to Around the House