Welcome to another episode of Connect & Convert, the Sales Accelerator podcast, where

small business owners tune in every week to hear insider secrets about how to grow their business.

Faster than ever, and we have a treat for our listeners today,

Leah, we have some real insider secrets from a real expert.

I'm always delighted when we can have a guest of this caliber, but first.

Leah.

Hi, how are you?

I am good.

Good to see you and yes, faster, stronger.

There's no end to the directions and what we're gonna be doing with this podcast.

I'm really excited

this, this is one of those topics that, you know, we'd love to go on for days, but unfortunately

we, we won't, but we'll try to get the highlights for you and get your appetite wedded in the proper manner.

And.

We'll do that in just a second.

But Leah, you always start us off with the most lovely introduction and

the free offer that we make to all of our listeners, all of our viewers.

Would you mind starting us off today with your offer?

Absolutely.

It is, as you say, our free offer, it doesn't matter US dollars, Canadian dollars, we take them all.

Big zero price tag.

And what it is is Dennis, you and I do this for love of small business.

We've worked with countless small businesses through our careers and we love being able to help them

hone in on questions or look at things a little bit differently.

And sometimes with our, uh, podcast, we don't.

Get exactly where they want to go, or it inspires them to think, hmm, what else is possible?

So we encourage people to give us a, uh, a shout via email.

You can reach us at dennisCollins@wizardofads.com or leah@wizardofads.com.

Send a request and we will schedule, uh, 60 minute no charge.

Zoom, um, meeting where we can talk about what you would like to talk about.

It could be recruiting, it could be what's going on in, in the, in the world that's affecting your business.

It could be something really, really specific.

It could be about leadership.

Could be about today, stuff could be about leadership.

You never know.

All kinds of stuff, but we love doing that.

How much,

how much does this cost, Leah?

Oh, you know, Dennis, I love when you ask me that it's completely, completely free.

Now, we do have a lot of our listeners that will get ahold of us and will

be talking to us with specific questions, and that's fine too.

We, we love that.

But if you wanna dig deep and find out what, what's possible and a. It

ends up that there's more that we can do and that's what you and I love.

It's coaching small business.

It's inspiring it.

So away you go.

Give us a call.

Give us a call.

But first listen to this one because this, you guys are gonna love it.

Yeah, this is great.

So today, you know, we always try to bring you the latest, the greatest, the most interest, interesting topics.

We have a special sneak peek.

And some real insider information from a gentleman who is an employee retention and leadership expert with

decades of experience helping businesses create extraordinary workplaces.

Today he's gonna reveal some advanced insider information from his soon to be released book.

Our guest today on Connect & Convert is Philip B.

Wilson.

President General Counsel of LRI Consulting services, the nation's leading full service labor and

employee relationship building consulting firm for over 47 years.

Phil is an author, he's a frequent speaker on employee relations topics.

He is an employee retention and leadership expert.

He's written a book called The Approachability Playbook.

I remember getting that.

A few years ago, and I devoured it and I mark it up and I put tabs in it because there is more

in that little approachability playbook than you can imagine.

And now his new book, which we'll be talking about today, it'll be released in April of this year, April 1st.

As a matter of fact, that's no joke.

You gotta pay extra to have a release date like that, that.

I think you do, but here's the title, the Leader Shift Playbook.

Let me say that clearly.

The leader Shift, S-H-A-I-F-T, the Leader Shift Playbook, coming out April 1st, 2025.

Phil, thank you for taking the time today.

It's so good to have you with us.

I love talking about.

Employee relations and leadership topics with you.

It is also one of our favorite topics for our viewers and listeners.

So it's one of those things we could talk all day, but we won't, we will probably leave the audience

wanting more and when the book comes out, they can know all.

So let, let, uh, welcome again.

We're glad to have you.

Thanks.

Thanks for having me, Dennis And Leah.

Uh, okay.

I read the excerpt on your website.

And you hooked me in with your commentary on your trip to Mount Stupid.

Now, I actually thought, Phil, that I had exclusive rights to the top of Mount Stupid.

I thought I had it, and all of a sudden you're claiming it.

I saw your flag up there, Dennis, that I, uh, I planted my own.

Yeah, I was there a bit before you, uh, a, a few years before you.

I think I did make that trip.

It's comforting to know there are others.

Even the experts.

Uh, at any rate, why don't you describe for our audience, because I think it's very instructive, because this

is, this starts with your story and your story, which leads to discoveries

that you made and things that you did to help fix some of the issues.

So describe what you mean by mount stupid and how it inspired this book.

If your listeners have ever heard of the, the Dunning Kruger effect, the, the basic idea

of it is that, um, on a complicated subject, for example, leadership, which is about as complicated as

they get, um, you know, you learn some and then you, you can easily.

Walk yourself into like, oh, I'm an expert at this.

Like, I, you know, you think you know a whole lot more than, you know, and, uh, that's mount stupid because, uh,

you're, you aren't really appreciating sort of how deep the rabbit hole

goes when you, you know, I've talked yourself into, I'm, you know, I'm.

At this and the story I tell it's my own personal leadership journey, but I was, you know, going around

the country, uh, teaching people about leadership, talking, uh, about

the book that you just mentioned, the approachability playbook.

Uh, when I came to the.

Stark realization that I was a crappy leader of my own team.

Oh boy.

And uh, the book itself really sort of describes my, you know, realization and then some of the

work that I did personally, and then along with the relationships on my own team to help transform our.

Company.

Um, and then I, I help the readers understand, you know, they can sort of take these same steps,

these shifts, uh, in your mindset that, uh, that I made and hopefully will help them on their journey.

Wow.

Yeah, i, I was, I was, uh, uh, uh, I guess not shocked.

Have knowing, having known you a little bit, but not shocked at your, your, you know, your vulnerability of laying

it all out there and saying, Hey, here's a guy who teaches this stuff.

That his own house was not in order.

And you know, it's interesting because laying it out there and like once you make the determination

then as someone who is trying to help people, that's the obvious next step to write a book, to share the, the journey.

But how difficult was it for you to come to terms with that?

Like to really recognize it?

Was it people poking you?

Was it like, did you have those moments of, oh, for heaven's sakes, you just don't get me?

Like how, how was that part of it?

Lots of, lots of pokes along the way.

Um, the biggest from my editor, so this book, uh, was actually written about three times.

So I, I, and, and so Janet Goldstein is her name, but Janet, she, uh, helped me with the Approachability Playbook.

She's a terrific editor.

She, um, I then made the, the, the, the huge mistake.

Speaking of Mount Stupid, the huge mistake of writing another book and then just sort of sending

it to her and going like, Hey Janet, like, what do you think?

Um, and her reply was, I think you should re rewrite this.

Oh, oh boy.

Which I did.

Uh, and then I sent it to her again and she was like, Hey, Phil, like this is, this is great stuff in here.

Like there's really good pointers and practical, but like, I don't really.

I feel like you're in here.

You know, like I, she knows enough about my story and knows, you know, enough about my own journey.

She's like, I don't really see you here.

So I, I actually took a, a, a week sabbatical with the book for the,

for the third rewrite, um, which was where I actually kind of.

Reflected on this journey that I had been on over the last few years and started to, to, to think about, okay,

like these leadership principles that I, I'm talking about, where did they transform my own leadership?

And so like the story of being on the top of Mount Stupid I, that, that, which happened years before.

Um, but I, that was not in the book.

Uh, there, there's a, a number of stories with my own team that were not in the book before the third rewrite.

Um, and so a lot of the personal, uh, details of my story, you know, made it in there in the third

rewrite, and she, she finally let me, uh, release that to the world, uh, after, after the third rewrite.

Wow, that's quite, quite an evolution.

What, what is it?

You know, our audience, as you know, is probably is a lot of small business owners, uh, people

who are just, you know, trying to get through the week sometimes.

Mm-hmm.

And they, you know, they think things are going pretty well.

They're meeting payroll, they're making a little bit of money.

Things look pretty good, and all of sudden they're not.

So what, what warning signs based on your.

Experience your personal experience, not only in your own business, but

in all the thousands of companies you've consulted with over the years.

What are the warning signs that you may have to make a leadership mindset shift?

Well, one of the things in our, in our workshops,

we do a, an exercise on what we call the approachability window.

But the, the, the basic idea of that exercise is you've gotta give somebody.

Feedback about themselves and we, we sort of manufacture the situation, but, but it's real life.

So like you're in a room and you have, uh, had a quick conversation with somebody where you're kind

of telling 'em a little bit about yourself and they're telling you a little bit about them, and then

you're put into a position where you have to give them some feedback.

That they don't know you're about to give them.

Right?

Uh, and, and some of that is about, here's some things I think

you're good at and here's some things I think you can improve.

And, but when we do the, the debrief of that exercise, Dennis.

And Leah, what, what we tell people is like that feeling that you had where you're like, your stomach sunk a little

bit and you're like, how am I gonna give this person who I might barely know?

You know, some, some potentially tough feedback.

It's like if you don't feel like that very often, you're not really doing it right.

Like, one way.

So one way to tell Dennis, you know.

That maybe you're not doing it right, as if like all your conversations are comfortable to you.

Yeah, you are.

Uh, 'cause you're probably coasting a little bit.

You know, the, the tougher conversations, the accountability

conversations, those are, um, that's what leadership feels like.

And so if you're not feeling that way on a pretty regular basis, then you're not really doing it right.

That's an inter I, I'd never thought of that.

But you know, if it's too easy, it's too easy.

Something is not right here.

Yeah.

So what kind of reactions do you get from people?

Is it okay?

So you, you, when you're doing this exercise, I find this fascinating.

Mm-hmm.

So if it's Dennis and I, and I am going to be giving him feedback, then is it gonna be reciprocated?

Yeah.

With the same person?

Yeah.

You both do it.

And you know, because it's in a workshop, it's, it's relatively simple.

So you're basically commenting on.

Uh, behaviors, so like approachability behaviors that you think that based on your interactions during that day

that you think that they could improve on, that you think they could work on and you each give each other feedback.

And we even sort of stack the deck, so to speak.

You actually use cards, but you give them cards that they've already kind of been through and cherry picked.

Sort of the easy stuff out of, and so you, you, you make it where they have

to, they're gonna pick something that's gonna be a little bit more challenging.

Um, and Leo, what happens in, in the room as you might expect, you know, you can just, like, first of

all, you know, everybody's kind of like, da da, da, you know, do you know in the fir the first round where

you're, you're revealing things that you already know about yourself.

It's like, no big deal.

And then all of a sudden when you're like, oh.

I have to like have like a serious conversation with someone who gets quieter.

Everyone starts trying to figure out like, how am I gonna say this?

Um, and then it's interesting, but there's a lot of different strategies.

And, and many of these things come natural, but like we, we don't wanna give people bad news.

So, so we, we want to make it a little bit easier for them.

Um, so you'll see things like, I will, uh, they've already by the way, just had a conversation with this person

where this person has mentioned a couple things they think they can work on.

So it's real common that you will sort of reflect back on the conversation

you just had and sort of bring that forward, which is a great, uh.

Tool for leaders to be able to go like, here's some things that like you, you do great.

Here's some things that you already know, you know, are, are challenges.

So here's something that I've noticed and here's something that I think we should work on.

But, but in that.

Exercise you see little versions of, of that.

Um, there's a, there, there's, it starts off as nervous laughter, but

you can, you can quickly see people will laugh to get comfortable.

Um, and when they're giving the feedback, um, they will deflect a

little bit and be like, look, this is just kind of my impression.

I don't know each other, we don't know each other, all that great.

We've just kind of been together in this exercise.

But, you know, this is, you know, for whatever it's worth, this is my take.

Which, which makes it, um.

A good, a good comfortable way to give feedback without, you know, necessarily hurting the other person.

So, so there's all these strategies that people employ that are really great, you know, things to take outta

the room because the next time you have to have a difficult conversation

with someone on your team, you know, you can use those same tactics.

Yeah, I'd be interested, Phil, in, in your

experience, um, and how it compares to some of the experiences I've had.

Mm-hmm.

How many, how many managers, leaders, whatever we call 'em these days, really truly know how to

perform a difficult conversation successfully in your experience?

Without the training?

Without the training.

It's.

I look, some people are naturally better at it than others.

So like, let's just start there.

Not everybody's terrible at it, right?

Um, we tend to avoid those conversations, so like a big.

Kind of mistake that people make or, or problem people have is just avoiding the conversation altogether

until it's kind of like now it's not a molehill anymore, it's a mountain.

Um, but, uh, it is not natural for a lot of people.

And, and because of that, you know, you, you need to come up with sort of some, some tactics to, um, yeah, to get them.

Comfortable.

And, you know, there's different, different tools that we teach.

We, we, uh, one of, one of like my, sort of like magic tricks is this confirmed statement.

Um, so the confirmed statement is if you are talking to somebody and it's like an emotional issue or you're,

you know, it's an uncomfortable issue for them, you know, you talk

to them for a little bit and you listen and, and like, you know, you.

Look, every leadership class you've ever been to, it's like, well act, do active listening, um, you know, ask question.

Yeah.

Like, there's all these sort of like tactics.

Most people don't do it in the moment because it's.

They're a little bit kind of on edge.

They're not exactly sure what to say.

They're nervous.

So typically what happens is we just like jump into problem solving

mode, which a lot of times is the worst thing that you can do.

And so what, what we do is just this little kind of mind trick of we give your brain like a

different problem to solve so that the, the confirmed statement is, you sound blank because of blank.

Do I have that right?

And so, so we make it a rule.

You're not allowed to kind of go any further in the conversation until

you have filled in those blanks and the first blanks on emotion.

You know, you sound angry, you sound frustrated, you sound overwhelmed because of, and then you followed up

with whatever they just told you a real quick, maybe one sentence summary of the story that they just told.

And when you, when you do that, it now for you're going to listen better.

'cause your brain goes from like.

Listening for when can I jump in and drop my knowledge bomb on

this person to like, you actually are listening for emotions.

So like you're in this whole different frame of mind.

So, so you are listening more carefully.

You're proving that you listened because you're naming this emotion

and you're naming and explaining what they just said to you.

And look, here's the.

Other magic part of this, you guys are wizards.

The, the other like, magic part of this is, uh, you can get, you could be totally wrong and you're still fine.

'cause they're gonna tell you what the answer is.

Right?

Exactly.

You can, you can name the wrong emotion.

I mean, unless you're just like, completely, like in outer

space, they will, um, they'll tell you what the answer is.

What, what, what they really care about is like, are you listening?

And at the point that you've proven like, I listened, I cared enough to listen.

For many situations, the problems solved.

They just needed to be heard.

Um, but in other situations, like at that point, they are ready to kind of collaborate on a solution.

So that's, that's an example.

You know, our, the, the book that the, the Leadership playbook, like a, a big part of uh, kind of my commitment

in that book and the last book as well, is just as many of these kind of practical tools that a leader can

use to kind of just up their, their game around, you know, your, your.

Your podcast, it's Connect & Convert.

Connect is like leadership.

The sum up of that, the model that we teach is literally called the connection model.

Like if you connect, all the good things happen, and if you don't connect, it really doesn't matter what else you do.

Like you're like, you're not going anywhere.

You gotta connect first.

This sounds like a conversation that's more of a hug than a, let's just rip that bandage off.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I mean, what's the point of.

Ripping off the bandaid, right?

If you're not gonna actually connect and try to like, uh, work together on like, where do we go from here?

Um, focusing backwards on the history and like whose fault it is.

And like, there there's not, there's nothing to be gained.

Right there.

The key question is like, what can we learn from what has happened and like, where are we going?

What's next?

What's next?

You know, the, uh, the thing that hits me is you also have a Leader shift toolkit.

Mm-hmm.

That's available and.

I have, it's, um, I, I don't know exactly where I got the copy.

I don't wanna say anything if it's not available out there to the public.

Yeah.

It, it comes with the excerpt of the book, so if you

Oh, okay.

So that's where I got it then.

Yeah, I got it with the excerpts of the book.

Mm-hmm.

So I'm not, uh, revealing anything that's top secret, but, um, I would highly

recommend to anyone who's listening here who we piqued your interest

to get that download and look at Phil's Leader Shift toolkit.

You talk about practical.

Mm-hmm.

Everyday applications.

You know, one of the biggest problems I've had in my world of consulting and running radio stations before

that and all the other stuff I've done, we all kind of knew what to do, but we didn't do it.

Okay.

I never could get the action.

Based on the amount of knowledge that we had accumulated, I think you helped solve that.

I know you did an approachability playbook to some extent as well,

loaded with practical exercises, but the toolkit's over the top.

Talk a minute about the toolkit and how you devise that, et cetera.

The toolkit is based on the, uh, the work that we've done with leaders over the last, you know,

decade and a half, you know, is kind of when we started the, the leadership training part of our, of our work.

And, um, so, so it's, it's like you said, it's a number of practical tools that implement some of these concepts.

'cause you're right, like we know what to do a lot of times, but it's more the kind of like, well, what.

That's why, you know, my last two books are called Playbooks.

Like, it's literally, I give you the plays to run so that you don't have to think about it.

It's, it's, it's, and some of the tools are to sort of prepare you for the conversation that you're about to have.

So you feel comfortable going into the conversation that you kind of know what you're gonna do.

Some of the tools are things that you actually fill out during the conversation.

Um, but they're all oriented to being very simple.

Um.

Each one kind of has one point that it's trying to get across.

Um, and each one sort of relates to some of the fundamentals that we've identified over the years as like

the critical building blocks for being an approachable leader, right?

And so that's what's in the toolkit.

It comes for free with the uh, um, with the excerpt of the book.

If you go to your leader shift.

Com, um, you can just throw your email in there and you're gonna get an excerpt of the book and you can decide whether

you think, uh, this knucklehead, you know, has anything to say to you.

And you get the tools as well.

And you don't even have, you know, that's all the commit, commit.

All the commitment you need is your email address and you can immediately unsubscribe if you want to.

You're still gonna get the tools.

I particularly love that you use the analogy of sports because playbook is designed so

that okay, before you're in the situation, you know a direction that you're gonna have to go.

And, and when you look at professional, uh, athletes, when

you look at, you know, your kids in high school, they have a plan.

And that's basically what a playbook is.

It's.

Something that you can look at enough times, know what it is that you wanna do and why.

And then if it goes left well still you're in the middle of something.

'cause real life doesn't take a time out for.

Run in the meeting, you're in the meeting, you're being

approached by something, something's being thrown at you.

So what do you do?

I, I, I really appreciate that, that, that term, I think words are everything.

Yeah.

Well, my sport was debate, but, uh, but I do mine too.

Me too.

We're all look at that.

Alright, let's love a debate.

I do like the, uh, I do like the idea of a playbook.

And, and like you say, Leah, you're, um, you, you know.

Just 'cause you have a playbook doesn't mean like things aren't gonna go crazy, right?

And so you may have to like, call an audible, you may pivot, you may, you know, but having that basic play kind of

in advance when you're getting prepared for whatever conversation or whatever,

you know, whatever you're doing, um, that gives you a solid foundation.

And if you are have already kind of thought through sort of it, it also is gonna trigger like, well.

I could see this person maybe saying this when I'm in this, you know, you, you, you start to

anticipate, you know, what are some of the things that could change up?

Um, so having the play just increases your comfort level and like, most importantly, going back to the beginning

where we talked about, you know, human nature is you're gonna avoid.

Something that is in any way, like uncomfortable, that's the easy button.

So having the playbook in some ways, like gets you at least over that hump.

Like I, I'm confident enough now that I can do this, that I'm gonna go ahead and jump into the game now

and I'm gonna, I'm gonna run the play and, you know, we'll see how it goes.

But like, that's, that's the other part that's really important about

a playbook is just give you, uh, the confidence to get, get rolling.

Right.

That's a great point.

You have referred the four mine.

Are usually required for someone to elevate their leadership.

Uh, I'm sure the book goes into great detail on those four mine shifts.

I'm sure that's the whole, the core of the book, but just,

uh, tell our audience what are those four mine shifts?

And let me put you on the spot.

If you had to choose just one of those mine shifts that would

make the most impact on your leadership, which one would that be?

Uh, I'll, well, I'll answer those in order.

So the shifts are, the first one is your belief in your impact, and here I talk about things like the, you know, the no

SIBO effect, which most people know, the placebo effect, which is, it's like, I believe a sugar pill's gonna cure me.

A lot of times it does.

The no SIBO effect is, is the flip side of that.

Like if I, if I tell you about the side effects that you might experience when you take a sugar pill,

people actually experience the side effects and so you having an impact.

Whether you believe you are or you're not, like you can be a placebo

effect or a no SIBO effect, but like one of those two is happening.

So that's like the first shift.

The second shift is your belief in yourself.

So once you recognize that you're having an impact, then like what are you doing to make sure that

that, you know, you believe that you have the tools and the capacity to be that placebo effect leader.

So that's a second shift, the third shift.

And Dennis, to answer your second question.

The one that I, if I could only pick one, it's your belief in others.

In this chapter, I talk about the hero assumption.

Um, this book was originally called The Hero Assumption.

My editor also talked me outta that.

Uh, but um, the hero assumption is about believing.

Others and you.

It, the, the, the, like, the lessons in here are so important.

It's, I, to me, one of the most important things for my own personal leadership journey, and I think

it's really, really important for anyone who's in leadership.

You know, whether you believe, you know, like Henry Ford is kind of credited with this, and I don't

know for sure who said it, but you know, whether you believe you're gonna succeed or fail, you're right.

The same thing is true about your team if you think that someone is gonna perform well.

Um, the, the, the research is unbelievable on this, but like they, they will rise to that occasion.

And if you believe someone is gonna fail.

Guess what?

Your behavior and the way that you talk to them and the way that you just

carry yourself around them is going to lead to that behavior as well.

And so, so it's not just words, right?

It, it's actions or lack of actions, et cetera.

Yeah.

It's like

what you, this applies

we're, we're talking about business, but this applies to kids in school too.

I remember hearing this very same thing.

If you tell teachers, yeah, this group of this, these guys are, their IQ is off the rails.

Or you tell them, uh, there's a lot of issues here.

Yeah.

That is going to inform what happens with that class and how that,

that, so that study, that study is in this chapter of the book.

Uh, but yes, if you, if you tell people, if you tell teachers that their students will bloom, they bloom.

And if you tell them that, uh, they're average, they stay average.

And if you tell them, God forbid, that they're dumb, um, you're, and, and, and

the studies are unbelievable because what happens is the teacher's behavior.

And like the crazy thing about that, those studies, Leah, they told the teachers just certain kids in the room

and they, they were set up where these were all kids of average IQ average.

You know, they like, they, the, the, the experiments were set up in a way that.

There's a co there's a control in the room.

Everyone's scores were similar.

And then they said, this one, this one, this one, and this one.

These are academic bloomers.

They're gonna, they're gonna bloom this year.

Um, and then everyone else just is average.

Well, the teacher's behavior just with those students was different.

Uh, and, and that behavior actually led to the results going up.

And here's the thing about those studies.

IQ is stable.

Especially in the ages that they were doing these studies in, but the IQ still went up, which is unusual basically

because the leader, which is the teacher, the leader, behaved differently

around those folks because of the belief that they had about those individuals.

Wow.

And I tell some other stories about similar studies, but Leah, to your point, this is not a work behavior.

This is a life.

Yes.

If you, your kids are gonna fail, you know, you're, you're, you're about to have some kids that fail.

And if you believe your own kids are gonna succeed, um, they will.

A lot of times, even, even when you're kind of like, I don't

know how this is gonna work, they will rise to the occasion.

Um, saying, you know, you're, the way you talk and think about your spouse is the same thing.

Your brothers, your sisters, folks in your community, like these.

These lessons are not just work related.

There's a lot of stuff in the book about different, um, sort of life scenarios where these apply as well.

Uh, but it's, so that's Dennis, why this is my favorite, most important shift.

Wow.

For sure.

The final one.

The final shift.

The fourth one is your, your, uh, belief in the power of relationships.

Uh, and so the hero assumption, uh, all of these interrelate with each other, but the power of relationships

is basically this, this point of, you know, your, your superpower as a leader is your connections.

You know, you need to believe in the power of relationships and how important it's to connect and, um.

You know, that can be more challenging with some people than others.

And so, so your, your job though is to, is to strengthen those connections.

So those are the four shifts that I talk about in the book.

I talk about how I made those shifts personally with folks on my team, uh, and uh, how that impacted

our relationship, how it impacted the way that they did their work.

Not just at work, but going back, Leah, you know, I tell a story about Laura, who's one of the folks on our

team who at the same time that we were kind of asking her to, to, to like step up and, and do work that

was, she was uncomfortable with, but we were telling her, making the

hero assumption, look, we believe you got what it takes to do this.

We're gonna help you, but like.

We think you've got this.

And, and she did.

But at the same time, you know, she was, uh, basically just like doing

clerical work for an organization that she volunteered with.

Um, over the course of the last few years, she's risen all the

way to the president of that organization basically because she, I.

Started to believe in herself, um, in a way that she hadn't before.

Um, so there's a lot of stories about sort of how these lessons have applied, you know, in my own company and, and

your listeners are, I think probably mostly sort of entrepreneurial, smaller, you know, businesses.

You probably have some larger ones too, but, but you know, if you are a small business owner and an entrepreneur,

um, you know, the story that I tell is of, you know, I've got 13 employees.

I, I, I talk about the transformation of my own business and my own company, um, using this playbook.

It's so energizing because too many times we think things are happening to us.

Mm-hmm.

Good or bad.

Oh, look what's happening.

Look what this possibility.

And it's, it's, we're this conduit.

But no, our energy can actually, change the path of our business, of our family, of our health.

Mm-hmm.

All of these things.

And you, you tell these stories, so, so, uh, from such a personal standpoint, you

can't help but feel that, okay, there's, there's options here and I can do it.

I, you know, I've always had, uh, folks tell me once again, it's what you believe, right?

But, uh.

The mind shift change is the hardest change you'll ever have to make in

your life, whether it's with you and particularly with someone else.

Because we generally don't understand the psychology of how people change their minds.

I. We tend to use devices that have been proven not to work

and simply act to piss them off as opposed to get the change.

So have you got any advice for our small business owners who might be in that?

They say, yeah, I need a mind shift change.

Phil is right on target with these four, particularly with the number two I think about believing in your people.

How do you make these mind shift changes that maybe you've held for decades?

Yeah.

Let's go back to the hero assumption.

You know, you gotta make the hero assumption about yourself

before you start making it for the folks that are around you, right?

You gotta believe there is a way down off of Mount stupid.

You have to believe that, like, even though you've had trouble with connecting with people in

the past and have maybe led with an, you know, too much of an iron fist that you can change, um.

Those are the, the real important work that you have to do really before you start working on anyone else.

My own personal version of that was, I tell the story in the, in the, in the book, I think the excerpt has

this story, but you know, I approached someone on my team, uh, to offer a

promotion and to basically be like my partner in running the business.

And she was like, I told your dad we're a family owned business.

She's like, I told your dad I'd never work for you.

That, that I, he was not able to retire until I was ready to retire.

'cause I'm never gonna work for you.

Wow.

And I didn't look, we're like a small company and I've like, we've

known each other for a long time and I didn't know she felt that way.

Well that was a wake up call.

And so I had to do some reflection on my own about like.

Wow, how, and this is my mount stupid moment, right?

It's like, how could I have been?

So, um, you know, living in the fog about that relationship and about relationships with these people that

I'm around all the time that are my team, that, look, we have worked together and worked well together for

a long time, but like, I, I wasn't seeing the world correctly and, um.

And so that, like, that was uncomfortable.

That was tough.

That was, uh, that was definitely a point where I had to like,

reflect on myself, but I also believed I could do it.

And I believed that I could, um, make the changes that, that were necessary

to, you know, flip that script around and, uh, and that's what happened.

And so, you know, I would just tell anybody.

It.

Like, that's pretty bad.

So I don't know what your shop is like, and you know, but it's probably not much worse than that.

Um, and if I can do it, uh, you can do it.

That, that would be my, my advice to somebody.

Yeah.

I can't...,

and the desire has to come in there too, right?

Like,

yeah, sometimes you

have owners and they don't really, they're not really engaged.

You, you need to want it.

And these are the reasons why, and these are the benefits.

Yeah, I mean, I wasn't really trusting of my team.

I kind of thought I had to do everything.

Uh, I, I was, I would send people down rabbit holes that were like, stuff that was just a shiny object

that I happened to run across and, you know, and then when they find, yeah, when they, when they like diverted

from what they were supposed to be doing to, to answer my question or

whatever, I had already moved on to like five shiny objects later.

So like I was creating a lot of havoc in mayhem.

My company.

And once I started like reflecting on these things, I started recognizing it.

Then like, it kind of gets pretty easy.

You just ask for help, ask your team for advice.

How can I stop doing?

How can I stop driving you crazy?

And they will tell you.

And, and then if you just start like doing that, um, and,

and they start understanding like, oh, you really mean it.

Like you, this is the new film, right?

This is the new film.

Then they notice like, oh.

He's actually trying to do it, you know, like that, that will build on itself.

So that's really.

Do you suggest doing that in a group setting or individually?

One-on-one.

What?

Do you have advice when?

I, I think it, I mean, I think it's situational first of all.

Like, I wouldn't like give a blanket, you know, advice.

But going back to kind of the fourth shift, it's, it, it really like the foundation is the relationships.

And so in my own case, the most important relationship was that relationship with the person who

I wanted to basically be running the day-to-day of the company.

So I had to like, get that fixed first.

Um, and I worked on that relationship first, and then we started kind of working on.

The rest of the team.

Um, we at the same time implemented a process called EOS, which probably many of your listeners are familiar with.

It's, you know, it's Gino Wickman's book on Traction.

Um, but we implemented that process, which also gave kind of a structure for us to have a lot of these conversations.

But, um, that is, that was our path and that's kind of the path that I, um, you know, that I talked about.

But, you know.

Every company is in a different spot and, and has different people.

And so, you know, your journey is not gonna look exactly like mine.

But I do think these, these fundamental principles sort of will lead you the right direction,

right?

Uh, and you know, we train a lot of salespeople and we, one of the first

things that I try to, to teach, uh, is the first sale is always to yourself.

Mm. You can't begin to, to try to sell someone else on your product or service or whatever it is until

you have sold yourself What you just said sounds an awful lot like that.

Mm-hmm.

The first sale is to yourself.

You've gotta get your.

You've gotta get yourself on board.

And we, we always like to challenge our, our, um, our listeners, our small business owners, don't we?

Leah, we like to issue a, a weekly challenge.

What's a, what would be a good weekly challenge based on what Phil has told?

Maybe Phil has one.

What would be a challenge that if, if you could talk to all these small business owners out there?

Hopefully they're all listening and tell them.

Regarding what you've learned over your career in leadership and what you're writing about in the new book Leadership

Playbook, what would be a good challenge they could do easily today, just based on the information we've talked about.

I'll, I'll go Leah, unless you, well, no,

I wanna hear, I, I have an idea, but I, I wanna hear the master.

I have two, and then Leah can give you your

third and you can pick out one of these three pieces of homework.

Okay.

The first one, I think is in the excerpt.

I, it, it might be at the end of chapter one.

I think it's at the end of the introduction, but the first

one, uh, and this is, this is easier, but it's powerful.

And this is, we call it Everyday Leader.

It's the way we kick off our workshops.

Um, but you know.

Think of somebody that's been an important leader in your life.

Someone who made the hero assumption about you.

Most of the times people will pick someone who was like the first person who believed in them.

Yes.

And, and maybe saw them in a place where they never even really saw themselves.

Okay.

Think of that person.

And once you have that person in mind, if they're still alive, hopefully they are, if they're still alive.

Commit to reach out to them and go, Hey, I was asked to think of someone that was a really important influential

leader, someone that I looked up to and admired and I thought of you, um, and have that conversation.

So that's number one.

That's powerful.

If that person's not alive, um, find somebody who knew them

and have that conversation, uh, with them just kind of.

Have a chance to kind of like remember and, and, and share kind of like what this person meant

to you and, and your own personal journey or personal leadership.

So that's, that's number one.

Um, if you really, so, so that's easier.

Number two is harder, uh, but probably higher impact.

But think a little bit about, um, like my own experience that I just told you about, who is the

person on your team that, like, if I say I want you to go have a conversation with them about, I think.

I think we could be better connected.

I think, uh, I think there's something, you know, in our relationship

that I think could improve and, and, and I want to do that.

Go have that conversation.

Whoever popped into your mind when I first said it, you already know who it is.

Yep.

Um, true.

Go talk to that person and just talk a little bit about, Hey, look.

I'd like to have a better connection.

I feel like we're not as connected as we should be.

Um, and, and then, you know, to make it easier for them, ask them for advice.

Gimme some advice about what can I do to help improve the connection.

You're somebody that I care about.

You're somebody that's important to me.

You're someone who's important in this company.

I. Want our connection to be better.

Um, have that conversation.

So that's my, that would, that, that's like the, uh, you know, the, the, that, that's like, uh,

you know, like the, the backup quarterback can do the first play.

You know, starting quarterbacks will do that, that second play.

So, Leah, how about you?

I love it.

That's gold.

That's gold, Phil.

Thanks.

You know, I, I loved how you said about, you know, asking for feedback from your team.

I think it's really important to set yourself up to be in a place where you can accept that feedback.

Hmm.

And asking the person who's closest to you in your life, ah, how

am I, your spouse, your sister, your dad, someone who knows you.

And just like, be open.

Tell me.

How I am in these situations because

that's scary.

Oh, that's scary.

It's very scary because it's too easy to dismiss someone who doesn't know you.

Someone who is Oh, they just don't like that.

I have them do this job and you have to be vulnerable and you most vulnerable with the people who love you and that,

that that's gonna be the hardest, but it can have the most impact.

Yeah.

I, I have one more than it's just people.

And you, you alluded to it when you were talking about the, the placebo effect, but people, it, it breaks

my heart, but when you tell them to do some self-talk and mm-hmm.

Just say, you know, I, I love you or I'm smart.

Their, their own internal reactions or worse, their external reactions tell you where they are.

Yeah.

They're dismissive.

They don't pick something.

Do it for 30 days every morning, tell yourself, look in the mirror and say something.

It will change because you can't help it.

Even if you discount it, you will believe it.

'cause our mind doesn't care what you tell it.

It believes you.

Yeah.

Okay, your first exercise, I have a crutch for that exercise to, to like lower the temperature level slightly,

but you can have that same conversation, which is that, that we talked about it earlier, but that card exercise,

basically you and you could come up with your own list of behaviors.

We have a list of behaviors as well, but like you can write down behaviors.

That you, you know, are, are like examples of good leadership behaviors.

I guarantee if you went in and like chat GPT and said list, you know, 25, you know, good leadership behaviors and

you basically, and then you can also tell it, list the opposite of those.

Um, and you can have them choose, okay, what are two, what are two things that you think I do well?

And then what are two things that you think I could do better?

You know, where you kind of.

You don't put them in the position.

Sometimes it's uncomfortable, like you put someone in the

position, so tell, you know, so tell me how like screwed up I am.

You know?

No.

Like people are gonna like, not really want to answer that question,

but if you've given them answers that you've already seen, right?

And you're like, mm-hmm.

Out of these, uh, you know, which do you think are things I do

well and which are some things that you think I could do better?

You're, you're gonna get, um, pro, well, you'll at least start the conversation at a different place.

Now, they might also then add, by the way, here's like five other ways you're screwed up.

That's fine.

Um, but at least you, at least you kind of made it easy for them to get that conversation started.

So that's kind of a good crutch for, for doing that.

But it's yes, asking people that are close to you.

Even outside of work that, and, and people like that, you can't fire and people that you can't, right?

Like, they're like, like, yes, my kid is gonna give me different

feedback and my spouse is gonna give me different feedback.

But yeah, that's a, that's a great place to start.

Oh, Dennis, our listeners, our small business

owners are getting more than their money's worth today

Chomping at the bid.

Leah, this has been like a masterclass Yes.

In how to ramp up.

Leadership, no matter how good it may be.

You, if you didn't pick out something from Phil today that could take your leadership from here to here.

You weren't listing.

So I advise you to go back and replay the episode.

It'll come to you, right?

It's there.

I can't wait to hear the results of some of these challenges 'cause I know we're

gonna get some response and they did this and this happened and

Oh, I would love to hear that too.

That's like,

we'll let you know.

Phil.

I, we could go on.

And this has been just totally enjoyable because this is our topic, our favorite topic, our listener's

favorite topic, and you just gave us so much inside information about stuff that, you know, stuff that you've done.

I can't wait to get the full book.

I just can't wait.

April 1st, I've got it marked down, man.

I got it marked down.

Uh, I wanna remind everybody that our guest today was Phil Wilson.

Uh, Phil.

As you probably have figured if you've been listening, is an author and a speaker.

His new book is called The Leader Shift Playbook.

That book will be released on April 1st if you want an existing book.

An excellent book on leadership.

The Approachability Playbook is already out there, already in print.

I got my copy sitting right back here.

I refer to it often because it's full of chunks of wisdom, similar to the leader Schiff, that's S-H-I-F-T.

Playbook.

What a great time.

Uh, I wish you nothing but the best with the book.

I don't see any reason this thing isn't gonna take off.

And you, you have spent a large portion of your life helping people to get extraordinary workplaces

and, uh, this is certainly going to help make that even more possible.

So thank you again for your time.

We appreciate you, we appreciate, uh, sharing with our audience.

Leah, any words of wisdom as we close out today?

I have another reason to wait to be excited about April coming.

Another reason.

Absolutely.

Other than tax days.

Well, you guys don't pay taxes in Canada, so

not Not this year.

Well, when you become our 51st state, we'll put some taxes.

Oh boy.

Oh, there, we could do a whole podcast on that.

Couldn't.

Okay.

I think we better,

and Dennis, we get too much

trouble.

We better quit and say this.

That's all for this episode of Connect & Convert.

We'll see you next time.

Join us.