1 00:00:00,750 --> 00:00:02,293 So we're kicking against authority. 2 00:00:02,293 --> 00:00:06,840 And obviously we are going against stream with all this. 3 00:00:07,298 --> 00:00:09,801 And we weren't we were not bold people. 4 00:00:09,801 --> 00:00:13,013 So it was very uncharacteristic, 5 00:00:13,013 --> 00:00:16,891 which made us suspect it was God like, this isn't our idea. 6 00:00:17,434 --> 00:00:19,686 Who would think of joining the Amish? 7 00:00:19,686 --> 00:00:21,229 Like, really? No. 8 00:00:22,439 --> 00:00:25,400 You know, it's not like we, like, oh, we want to be Amish. 9 00:00:25,525 --> 00:00:27,193 We are almost like, really? 10 00:00:32,866 --> 00:00:33,867 Today it's, 11 00:00:33,867 --> 00:00:37,620 it's a privilege to have Elizabeth Vendley on the podcast, and. 12 00:00:37,620 --> 00:00:38,997 Elizabeth, I'm. 13 00:00:38,997 --> 00:00:43,084 I'm pretty sure you're the only person I know that was Roman 14 00:00:43,084 --> 00:00:46,129 Catholic and ultimately ended up in the Amish. 15 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:48,173 And now you're a Mennonite. 16 00:00:48,173 --> 00:00:51,134 And that's quite an interesting story. 17 00:00:51,134 --> 00:00:53,511 And I'm hoping to catch some pieces of that today 18 00:00:53,511 --> 00:00:56,514 and maybe some, some lessons pulled out of that process. 19 00:00:57,015 --> 00:00:58,558 So let's just jump right into it. 20 00:00:58,558 --> 00:01:02,437 Tell me about your experience as a Catholic and. 21 00:01:02,687 --> 00:01:04,355 Yeah. What was that? What was that like? 22 00:01:04,355 --> 00:01:08,818 I was born and raised in a typical American 23 00:01:09,027 --> 00:01:12,030 middle class society household. 24 00:01:12,238 --> 00:01:14,699 My mom was Catholic and my dad was an atheist. 25 00:01:14,699 --> 00:01:18,495 But in the Catholic Church, if you marry a Catholic, 26 00:01:18,495 --> 00:01:21,498 you have to agree to have your children raised Catholic. 27 00:01:21,664 --> 00:01:23,833 So my parents did that. 28 00:01:23,833 --> 00:01:27,128 My dad didn't go to church, but we went every Sunday. 29 00:01:27,128 --> 00:01:31,174 My mom took us and dad would come sometimes on the big holidays 30 00:01:31,174 --> 00:01:32,342 just because that's what you did. 31 00:01:33,510 --> 00:01:35,428 So mass was a weekly thing 32 00:01:35,428 --> 00:01:38,431 and religion classes during the week. 33 00:01:39,599 --> 00:01:41,434 Once you're in school age 34 00:01:41,434 --> 00:01:45,605 and that is the one thing that I appreciate, 35 00:01:47,357 --> 00:01:48,775 is that 36 00:01:48,775 --> 00:01:51,486 my mom would not have considered herself a devout Catholic. 37 00:01:51,486 --> 00:01:53,071 She actually used to make the comment, 38 00:01:53,071 --> 00:01:56,074 I hope I'm a better Christian than I am a Catholic. 39 00:01:56,282 --> 00:01:59,494 Although, the Catholic Church has days of obligation 40 00:01:59,953 --> 00:02:02,789 or saint's days where you have to go to church, 41 00:02:02,789 --> 00:02:05,792 which she usually makes sure we went on those extra days. 42 00:02:05,959 --> 00:02:09,462 Nonetheless, she wasn't a devout, 43 00:02:10,505 --> 00:02:13,508 you know, rosary praying type Catholic. 44 00:02:13,758 --> 00:02:17,846 And she would take us to church every, every Sunday. 45 00:02:17,846 --> 00:02:20,849 And I always gives the Catholic Church credit 46 00:02:21,266 --> 00:02:25,687 that they read the gospel as part, a small part of 47 00:02:25,979 --> 00:02:29,607 of one of the four Gospels during mass. 48 00:02:29,774 --> 00:02:32,318 You always get a short bit of that. 49 00:02:32,318 --> 00:02:35,071 It is the Catholic translation, 50 00:02:35,071 --> 00:02:38,992 but it's the gospel so I it 51 00:02:39,159 --> 00:02:42,287 there was always enough for the Holy Spirit to, you know, it's 52 00:02:42,287 --> 00:02:46,207 like spoon feed me until I was old enough to know where 53 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:48,418 where the Lord was going to take me. 54 00:02:48,418 --> 00:02:53,715 With all of that, I was a serious child, I so I paid attention in church. 55 00:02:53,715 --> 00:02:57,135 I don't know why, I just really did. And so, 56 00:02:58,469 --> 00:03:02,015 that that was just always the way my brain thought. 57 00:03:02,557 --> 00:03:04,184 I considered myself a Christian. 58 00:03:04,184 --> 00:03:07,061 I went to the youth group at church. 59 00:03:07,061 --> 00:03:09,898 People viewed me as a Christian. 60 00:03:09,898 --> 00:03:12,734 I did have a very controversial class 61 00:03:12,734 --> 00:03:16,487 in my Christian high school, or, I'm sorry, Catholic high school. 62 00:03:17,447 --> 00:03:19,824 That was Catholic church history, 63 00:03:19,824 --> 00:03:23,620 and he taught the real Catholic Church history. 64 00:03:24,287 --> 00:03:27,165 And it was controversial because there were some things 65 00:03:27,165 --> 00:03:31,002 in the Catholic Church history that weren't always the best. 66 00:03:31,502 --> 00:03:34,964 I feel like he's put them in the proper context. 67 00:03:35,256 --> 00:03:37,091 This was before the Reformation. 68 00:03:37,091 --> 00:03:38,801 That meant reform. 69 00:03:38,801 --> 00:03:39,802 We reformed. 70 00:03:39,802 --> 00:03:42,722 We as a church got better. 71 00:03:42,722 --> 00:03:44,641 I knew the truth, 72 00:03:44,641 --> 00:03:47,227 for better and for worse, about the Catholic Church, 73 00:03:47,227 --> 00:03:50,271 but things just weren't totally clicking 74 00:03:50,897 --> 00:03:54,400 and I kind of thought that was just spiritual immaturity. 75 00:03:55,526 --> 00:03:58,321 I thought, well, when I grow up, I'll understand these things. 76 00:03:58,321 --> 00:04:01,324 Everybody around me at church gets this. 77 00:04:01,491 --> 00:04:03,076 Why am I not getting it? 78 00:04:03,076 --> 00:04:04,661 You know, it must be me. 79 00:04:04,661 --> 00:04:08,289 And when I met my husband, David, he was my supervisor at a job. 80 00:04:08,289 --> 00:04:11,292 We worked in a group home for disabled children, 81 00:04:11,668 --> 00:04:14,420 and when I found out he was Catholic, I'm like, oh yeah, that's good. 82 00:04:14,420 --> 00:04:19,342 But as we got talking, I found out he had the same like that 83 00:04:19,342 --> 00:04:22,345 feeling of I don't really totally get it. 84 00:04:22,762 --> 00:04:26,182 I'm Catholic, but I really don't totally get it. 85 00:04:26,933 --> 00:04:28,851 So we were on the same track. 86 00:04:28,851 --> 00:04:33,231 We weren't necessarily spiritual people, but we're kind of on the same track, 87 00:04:33,606 --> 00:04:36,609 which to us was a green light, you know, to move forward. 88 00:04:36,985 --> 00:04:40,613 So can you, could you dial in on what were some of those things. 89 00:04:40,863 --> 00:04:43,866 Do you know specifically or was it just a general sense. 90 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:45,493 I do now. Back then I, you know, it was a little bit, 91 00:04:46,494 --> 00:04:48,329 a little bit unclear. 92 00:04:48,329 --> 00:04:51,457 I didn't understand the doctrines behind the communion liturgy, 93 00:04:52,041 --> 00:04:53,876 and the way that they do communion. 94 00:04:53,876 --> 00:04:56,504 I didn't quite get it. 95 00:04:56,504 --> 00:04:59,757 At the infant baptism, I never did understand that, 96 00:04:59,757 --> 00:05:05,013 because intellectually, I knew what an adult believer's baptism was. 97 00:05:05,305 --> 00:05:07,515 You know, growing up in America, I knew what that was. 98 00:05:07,515 --> 00:05:09,726 And it's like, that makes more sense. 99 00:05:09,726 --> 00:05:12,729 You know, right away, logically, that made sense. 100 00:05:13,313 --> 00:05:16,316 The nuns covered their head when I was younger, 101 00:05:16,733 --> 00:05:19,944 and then they stopped in the, oh, about mid 60s, 102 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,323 but most of them kept kept wearing their veils. 103 00:05:23,364 --> 00:05:26,159 Well, I honored those women were my heroes. 104 00:05:26,159 --> 00:05:28,703 So Holy Woman was wearing a covering. 105 00:05:28,703 --> 00:05:31,164 Why weren't the rest of us? 106 00:05:31,164 --> 00:05:34,167 That bugged me as a child. 107 00:05:34,292 --> 00:05:37,253 When I would hear that scripture, I was like, 108 00:05:37,253 --> 00:05:39,255 I don't get it because we're not doing it. 109 00:05:39,255 --> 00:05:40,965 I must be spiritually immature. 110 00:05:41,966 --> 00:05:43,217 And that's usually the answer. 111 00:05:43,217 --> 00:05:47,180 You kind of get in in one phrase or another, you know, 112 00:05:47,305 --> 00:05:50,725 I just kind of conform and go along with all the fishes and, 113 00:05:51,392 --> 00:05:53,061 and that's what we did. 114 00:05:53,061 --> 00:05:56,689 So you're clearly you're on a journey like you're searching for something. 115 00:05:56,689 --> 00:05:59,734 You're, you're looking for something more and you're saying that at the time 116 00:05:59,776 --> 00:06:03,529 it was more of this general sense that, you know, now, in retrospect, 117 00:06:03,529 --> 00:06:05,656 it's easy to kind of pinpoint down on some things. 118 00:06:05,656 --> 00:06:08,910 Yeah, start start walking us through the journey. 119 00:06:08,910 --> 00:06:12,121 Then, like, you're looking for something, you're searching for answers. 120 00:06:13,164 --> 00:06:15,124 What steps do you start taking in that? 121 00:06:15,124 --> 00:06:17,251 Well I call it holy unrest. 122 00:06:17,251 --> 00:06:20,046 That's what we had was Holy unrest. 123 00:06:20,046 --> 00:06:24,634 There was enough of the Holy Spirit going in us that this just isn't right. 124 00:06:25,218 --> 00:06:27,220 But we didn't know what. 125 00:06:27,220 --> 00:06:30,765 And we had been married for about six years. 126 00:06:31,349 --> 00:06:34,352 And at that point we had three children. 127 00:06:34,602 --> 00:06:39,399 And we felt that as parents of three children, God 128 00:06:39,399 --> 00:06:44,320 certainly would have given us some insight into how to raise them doctrinally. 129 00:06:44,904 --> 00:06:47,907 They were getting our oldest was getting towards school age. 130 00:06:48,366 --> 00:06:51,369 How do I teach them a doctrine I don't really believe in? 131 00:06:51,661 --> 00:06:54,080 I need to understand this doctrine. 132 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,083 So that unrest led us to the Bible. 133 00:06:57,083 --> 00:07:00,169 We both had Bibles read them on occasion. 134 00:07:00,169 --> 00:07:01,462 Not a regular thing. 135 00:07:02,630 --> 00:07:04,590 David's was a Catholic translation. 136 00:07:04,590 --> 00:07:06,801 Mine was a King James. 137 00:07:06,801 --> 00:07:09,095 And so we would read them on occasion 138 00:07:09,095 --> 00:07:12,390 and talk about it on and off. 139 00:07:13,099 --> 00:07:17,770 Then I became ill, with a pregnancy 140 00:07:17,770 --> 00:07:21,691 where I was stuck on the couch from April until September. 141 00:07:21,858 --> 00:07:23,818 And I have three small children. 142 00:07:23,818 --> 00:07:24,193 Okay. 143 00:07:24,193 --> 00:07:26,028 We're not in an Anabaptist setting. 144 00:07:26,028 --> 00:07:27,738 There are no hired girls. 145 00:07:27,738 --> 00:07:29,907 There are not extended family. 146 00:07:29,907 --> 00:07:34,912 So, I mean, I was on my own, with these children in the living room. 147 00:07:34,912 --> 00:07:37,874 So I was, you know, reading my Bible 148 00:07:38,124 --> 00:07:41,961 and because, okay, I can make this new daily habit. 149 00:07:41,961 --> 00:07:44,297 I've got to sit all day. I'm going to do this. 150 00:07:44,297 --> 00:07:46,174 So I started reading the Bible. 151 00:07:46,174 --> 00:07:49,886 We had also been pretty active in kind of homesteading type 152 00:07:49,886 --> 00:07:53,347 things like baking bread, canning, really into canning. 153 00:07:54,015 --> 00:07:57,018 So as we went to get our supplies for canning, 154 00:07:57,268 --> 00:08:01,898 we would come up against or come across plain people, 155 00:08:02,899 --> 00:08:03,399 Old Order 156 00:08:03,399 --> 00:08:06,444 Amish and some other, you know, varieties. 157 00:08:06,444 --> 00:08:10,281 Back then it was a predominantly in that area, the Old Order Amish. 158 00:08:10,281 --> 00:08:12,366 So we'd see them at the sales 159 00:08:12,366 --> 00:08:16,078 and we began to wonder, see more similarities 160 00:08:16,078 --> 00:08:22,168 with ourselves and them than with, say, the women at the playground at school 161 00:08:22,168 --> 00:08:26,964 or David's coworkers, like we had more in common with these people. 162 00:08:27,715 --> 00:08:30,384 And then somebody at the sale 163 00:08:30,384 --> 00:08:33,387 had mentioned that they were Christians, 164 00:08:33,888 --> 00:08:37,308 and I had thought they were Messianic Jews. 165 00:08:37,767 --> 00:08:40,770 So I was like. Oh. 166 00:08:41,020 --> 00:08:43,523 You know, they had asked me, I at that point was wearing 167 00:08:43,523 --> 00:08:46,484 just kind of a plain sack dress and a headscarf, 168 00:08:46,567 --> 00:08:50,363 and someone asked me if I was some type of Amish or Mennonite. 169 00:08:50,363 --> 00:08:52,448 I said, no, I'm a Christian. 170 00:08:52,448 --> 00:08:54,659 And they're like, well, Amish are Christians. 171 00:08:55,910 --> 00:08:56,536 They are. 172 00:08:56,536 --> 00:09:00,706 You know, to me, a Christian was the guy throwing tracks out on the subway, 173 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,668 you know, and hollering. It's like, no, that's not. 174 00:09:03,668 --> 00:09:04,752 Oh. Wow. Yeah. 175 00:09:04,752 --> 00:09:08,381 I mean, you just didn't really have any context for this world initially. 176 00:09:08,464 --> 00:09:12,385 And so and so I said like New Testament Christians. 177 00:09:12,385 --> 00:09:15,346 Yeah, yeah, yeah. New Testament Christians 178 00:09:15,930 --> 00:09:18,140 to this day, I don't know, 179 00:09:18,140 --> 00:09:20,518 was that an angel or what? 180 00:09:20,518 --> 00:09:25,481 So, as was our habit, we loved the library. 181 00:09:25,481 --> 00:09:28,901 This was back in the day when you didn't have, you know, the internet. 182 00:09:28,901 --> 00:09:31,028 So we're going to go look this up at the library. 183 00:09:31,028 --> 00:09:34,407 And we happened on a book by 184 00:09:34,407 --> 00:09:37,410 John Hostettler called Amish Society. 185 00:09:37,868 --> 00:09:41,914 That book went through the whole Anabaptist movement, 186 00:09:42,290 --> 00:09:44,417 the Anabaptist history. 187 00:09:44,417 --> 00:09:47,420 And then it takes apart the 188 00:09:47,670 --> 00:09:52,383 the Amish culture or in general, the conservative Anabaptist culture 189 00:09:52,883 --> 00:09:57,346 and the reasons why they do things and what Scripture is behind it. 190 00:09:58,055 --> 00:09:59,473 Well, we loved this, 191 00:09:59,473 --> 00:10:02,768 because what I liked about that book is I kept putting it down to read the Bible. 192 00:10:03,686 --> 00:10:06,897 We checked that book out over and over again because we couldn't 193 00:10:06,897 --> 00:10:07,356 get through it. 194 00:10:07,356 --> 00:10:12,361 We kept putting it down to go, oh, oh yeah, oh oh yeah. 195 00:10:12,361 --> 00:10:15,364 And we just had one aha moment after the other 196 00:10:15,740 --> 00:10:18,743 and David would come home from work and I would share this. 197 00:10:18,743 --> 00:10:21,954 And this just ended up being a constant conversation. 198 00:10:23,497 --> 00:10:27,043 so this is the journey and it's, it sounds like there was 199 00:10:27,043 --> 00:10:30,212 a lot of pieces, there was a lot of time probably passing right. 200 00:10:30,254 --> 00:10:33,215 Like this didn't happen overnight. Right. 201 00:10:33,424 --> 00:10:36,135 So then somewhere in this process 202 00:10:36,135 --> 00:10:40,598 you, leave the Catholic Church and end up joining the Amish. 203 00:10:41,432 --> 00:10:43,768 So. So tell me about that. 204 00:10:43,768 --> 00:10:47,980 As a timeline, I can tell you that I remember 205 00:10:47,980 --> 00:10:51,692 when I went to the hospital when I first started having my pregnancy complications. 206 00:10:52,026 --> 00:10:55,529 That would have been in April of 1989. 207 00:10:56,238 --> 00:10:58,699 I wore maternity pants 208 00:10:58,699 --> 00:11:01,827 when I came home from having that baby in October 209 00:11:02,870 --> 00:11:06,415 to pack sweat pants or something was not like, that's not right. 210 00:11:07,083 --> 00:11:10,378 So I kind of have that in my head, is where my convictions 211 00:11:10,670 --> 00:11:13,839 about my appearance really came through. 212 00:11:14,423 --> 00:11:18,010 That, you know, it was not okay to wear 213 00:11:18,719 --> 00:11:21,347 pants anymore, you know? 214 00:11:21,347 --> 00:11:25,810 So that would have been October of 89 that that began, 215 00:11:25,810 --> 00:11:31,232 and by the time we had moved into the Amish community would have been 1991. 216 00:11:32,191 --> 00:11:33,484 So that just 217 00:11:33,484 --> 00:11:37,613 kind of gives you how process, how long the different things took. 218 00:11:37,613 --> 00:11:43,661 Obviously, having your fourth child and, and she was a handful. 219 00:11:43,661 --> 00:11:47,540 She had some medical stomach things, very distracting. 220 00:11:48,749 --> 00:11:51,419 But we were reading, reading, reading, reading. 221 00:11:51,419 --> 00:11:54,422 We were readers and we came across the budget. 222 00:11:55,297 --> 00:11:57,258 Okay. 223 00:11:57,258 --> 00:12:00,261 Oh, this is just so interesting. 224 00:12:00,594 --> 00:12:02,263 What a story. Okay. 225 00:12:02,263 --> 00:12:04,348 So that, we would have probably picked up at the, 226 00:12:04,348 --> 00:12:06,142 at the sale, that we bought our produce at. 227 00:12:06,142 --> 00:12:06,892 Okay. 228 00:12:06,892 --> 00:12:10,312 I was like, how in the world would you have got ahold of the budget otherwise? 229 00:12:10,354 --> 00:12:11,272 Okay. Yeah. 230 00:12:11,272 --> 00:12:16,068 And someone had also, sent us a tract about plain clothing 231 00:12:16,777 --> 00:12:19,780 I believe it was called what shall I wear. 232 00:12:20,114 --> 00:12:24,493 It was by a man named Lester Beachy, printed by the Amish Brotherhood 233 00:12:24,493 --> 00:12:26,203 Publications. 234 00:12:26,203 --> 00:12:29,874 And this pamphlet really explained what we were going through 235 00:12:29,874 --> 00:12:34,253 with our clothing change because, we were close to David's parents. 236 00:12:34,253 --> 00:12:37,673 Mine, not as much, but David's parents we were close to. 237 00:12:37,673 --> 00:12:39,467 And they just did not get this. 238 00:12:39,467 --> 00:12:41,177 What are you doing to my grandchildren? 239 00:12:41,177 --> 00:12:43,679 Making them wear dresses, braiding their hair. 240 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:44,680 What? 241 00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:48,309 You know, and we felt that this tract really explained that well. 242 00:12:48,768 --> 00:12:52,313 So I sent him a letter asking, could we get more of these tracts? 243 00:12:52,855 --> 00:12:56,066 By this time, we knew the culture a little bit 244 00:12:56,066 --> 00:12:59,612 and found especially man to woman, very standoffish. 245 00:13:00,070 --> 00:13:03,115 So I was just very polite and careful. 246 00:13:03,449 --> 00:13:08,370 And he sent back this warm letter that was so obviously 247 00:13:08,788 --> 00:13:12,333 a born again Christian, greeting me in the name of the Lord. 248 00:13:12,333 --> 00:13:15,753 And he was so excited about the Lord's doing in our life. 249 00:13:15,753 --> 00:13:18,130 And he wants to hear more about this. 250 00:13:18,130 --> 00:13:20,257 And I don't know why I had this connotation. 251 00:13:20,257 --> 00:13:22,009 The name Lester would be an old man. 252 00:13:23,260 --> 00:13:24,970 I guess too, because he wrote in the Budget 253 00:13:24,970 --> 00:13:26,514 and he was obviously a good writer. 254 00:13:26,514 --> 00:13:30,100 So I just was picturing this wizened old man with this long gray beard. 255 00:13:31,060 --> 00:13:34,355 So please come and visit us if you're ever in Sugarcreek, Ohio, 256 00:13:34,855 --> 00:13:37,399 which at this point we are in Jiaga County, Ohio. 257 00:13:37,399 --> 00:13:40,402 So it wasn't just maybe an hour and a half away. 258 00:13:40,986 --> 00:13:43,989 So, we did. 259 00:13:44,740 --> 00:13:45,991 We we 260 00:13:45,991 --> 00:13:49,578 literally stopped in on the person, which is so unlike my husband. 261 00:13:49,578 --> 00:13:52,581 He was not a bold person. 262 00:13:53,707 --> 00:13:55,459 So when he said he wanted to do this, 263 00:13:55,459 --> 00:13:58,462 I'm like, okay, lead on. 264 00:13:58,504 --> 00:14:00,214 Lester wasn't an old man. 265 00:14:00,214 --> 00:14:02,883 He was younger than us. 266 00:14:02,883 --> 00:14:05,135 And he ended up being 267 00:14:05,135 --> 00:14:08,931 one of the main vehicles for us, actually, into the fellowship. 268 00:14:08,931 --> 00:14:10,307 We didn't expect it. 269 00:14:10,307 --> 00:14:12,434 We were just asking questions. 270 00:14:12,434 --> 00:14:15,229 Again, this is this is it feels like this is a thread. 271 00:14:15,229 --> 00:14:17,648 It's just a searching, you know, asking questions. 272 00:14:17,648 --> 00:14:18,816 Okay, well, what about this? 273 00:14:18,816 --> 00:14:20,985 And okay, how do we live this out, you know, 274 00:14:20,985 --> 00:14:24,572 what do we do with these convictions that we're starting to to experience 275 00:14:24,738 --> 00:14:25,823 and so forth? 276 00:14:25,823 --> 00:14:28,117 But then that piece by piece by piece, right. 277 00:14:28,117 --> 00:14:31,120 Eventually you end up integrating into the Amish. 278 00:14:31,328 --> 00:14:33,873 Yeah. Through that process. That's that's incredible. 279 00:14:33,873 --> 00:14:34,456 Yeah. 280 00:14:34,456 --> 00:14:39,044 Well, Lester introduced us to someone that was in his fellowship. 281 00:14:39,670 --> 00:14:42,548 Lester was what is called New Order Amish. 282 00:14:42,548 --> 00:14:45,217 So you have your old Order Amish, which is horse and buggy. 283 00:14:45,217 --> 00:14:48,262 German speaking. New Order Amish is also 284 00:14:49,263 --> 00:14:53,017 buggy or buggy church that speaks German. 285 00:14:53,434 --> 00:14:54,852 They are a little more inclined 286 00:14:54,852 --> 00:14:57,855 to use English if somebody English is present at their church. 287 00:14:58,814 --> 00:15:01,901 But their differences aren't really so much in lifestyle. 288 00:15:02,526 --> 00:15:03,485 I mean, the two groups 289 00:15:03,485 --> 00:15:06,488 know the difference, but, you know, nobody else would really know. 290 00:15:07,615 --> 00:15:10,618 To us, New Order sounded like New Age. 291 00:15:11,243 --> 00:15:13,579 We're like, uh oh, big flags. 292 00:15:13,579 --> 00:15:15,122 Like, I'm not sure I want to do this. 293 00:15:15,122 --> 00:15:17,041 Oh. That's funny. 294 00:15:17,041 --> 00:15:20,044 But, Lester had a friend whose name was Steve, 295 00:15:20,669 --> 00:15:24,131 and Steve had married a New Order Amish girl, 296 00:15:25,007 --> 00:15:27,134 and he had come from the Catholic background. 297 00:15:27,134 --> 00:15:28,928 He wanted us to meet Steve. 298 00:15:28,928 --> 00:15:30,262 Interesting. Okay. 299 00:15:30,262 --> 00:15:34,058 So Steve, of course, did all the studying. 300 00:15:34,058 --> 00:15:35,768 We did, 301 00:15:35,768 --> 00:15:41,231 he had become attracted to this young lady who ended up being very close. 302 00:15:41,231 --> 00:15:42,107 Dear friend of mine. 303 00:15:43,233 --> 00:15:45,611 He had been attracted and went to her dad. 304 00:15:45,611 --> 00:15:48,572 He said, you're not a Christian. No. 305 00:15:48,697 --> 00:15:51,075 And he said, well, what does that mean? 306 00:15:51,075 --> 00:15:52,326 And he gave Steve. 307 00:15:52,326 --> 00:15:53,869 Now I'm going off on a bunny trail. 308 00:15:53,869 --> 00:15:56,455 He gave Steve a a New Testament. 309 00:15:56,455 --> 00:16:00,167 He said, read this and then come back and see if you understand 310 00:16:00,167 --> 00:16:02,044 what being a Christian is. 311 00:16:02,044 --> 00:16:05,047 He stayed up that night and read the whole New Testament. 312 00:16:05,464 --> 00:16:06,256 This is kind of guy. 313 00:16:06,256 --> 00:16:09,301 Steve is Steve is now a preacher, a Mennonite preacher. 314 00:16:09,843 --> 00:16:12,096 So at any rate. 315 00:16:12,096 --> 00:16:13,639 So Steve. 316 00:16:13,639 --> 00:16:18,102 In a conversation that we could really relate to, having come from the world, 317 00:16:18,352 --> 00:16:21,355 went through the Anabaptist story, the history, 318 00:16:21,397 --> 00:16:24,358 how the Amish came to be. 319 00:16:24,358 --> 00:16:27,611 And we were all, you know, aha moment, one after another. 320 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:32,199 Our children, in the meantime, were outside playing for the first time 321 00:16:32,908 --> 00:16:34,243 on level ground, 322 00:16:34,243 --> 00:16:38,205 playing with children who understood like they did, behaved like they did. 323 00:16:38,205 --> 00:16:39,164 Played like they did, 324 00:16:40,249 --> 00:16:41,750 not pulling in 325 00:16:41,750 --> 00:16:45,212 TV, not hollering, screaming. Not. 326 00:16:45,921 --> 00:16:48,048 They weren't the best kids around. 327 00:16:48,048 --> 00:16:50,342 They were the same. 328 00:16:50,342 --> 00:16:53,345 They weren't those, you know, almost like today. 329 00:16:53,345 --> 00:16:55,139 We'd say those homeschool children know that. 330 00:16:55,139 --> 00:16:57,433 Like, they're well-behaved and they're all orderly. 331 00:16:57,433 --> 00:16:59,852 And your parents must be too strict. 332 00:16:59,852 --> 00:17:01,478 You know, that's about how we were treated. 333 00:17:01,478 --> 00:17:04,023 Yeah, but our children fit in. 334 00:17:04,023 --> 00:17:06,108 We felt relaxed. 335 00:17:06,108 --> 00:17:09,695 And so Steve and Lester kind of went 336 00:17:09,695 --> 00:17:14,158 through the doctrinal things with us, and we were just so agreed. 337 00:17:14,491 --> 00:17:18,996 We we just were having, like I said, one aha moment after another, 338 00:17:19,455 --> 00:17:23,000 I believe it was Steve that introduced us to the martyrs mirrors. 339 00:17:23,042 --> 00:17:27,963 It's a very thick book full of stories of the early Anabaptists. 340 00:17:28,505 --> 00:17:32,760 That and, Bercot’s book, David Bercot’s book. 341 00:17:33,385 --> 00:17:35,804 Will the real heretics please stand up? 342 00:17:35,804 --> 00:17:37,598 Very convicting. 343 00:17:37,598 --> 00:17:41,268 That helped us understand why other Protestant churches 344 00:17:41,310 --> 00:17:44,688 weren't quite making it in our minds. 345 00:17:45,522 --> 00:17:48,609 He just articulated it like, oh yeah, yeah, 346 00:17:48,609 --> 00:17:51,820 you know, which pointed us right back to the Anabaptists. 347 00:17:53,113 --> 00:17:54,114 And yeah, everything 348 00:17:54,114 --> 00:17:57,117 just kept sending us back to Steve and Lester with questions. 349 00:17:57,117 --> 00:17:59,787 When we saw the Martyrs Mirror we were blown away. 350 00:17:59,787 --> 00:18:05,459 We were like, those, that whole thick stack are other Catholics 351 00:18:05,793 --> 00:18:08,796 that didn't get it. 352 00:18:09,421 --> 00:18:10,297 Yeah. 353 00:18:10,297 --> 00:18:12,508 Drill into that a bit. Yeah. Yeah. 354 00:18:12,508 --> 00:18:15,094 You know when you're just like, even in our churches, 355 00:18:15,094 --> 00:18:17,554 it's just assumed you stay in the church that you're born in. 356 00:18:17,554 --> 00:18:20,933 Yeah. And so we grew up Catholic God. 357 00:18:21,016 --> 00:18:24,144 And my husband would even say that God put us in the Catholic Church. 358 00:18:24,144 --> 00:18:26,230 We were born into the Catholic Church for a reason. 359 00:18:26,230 --> 00:18:29,233 We will serve him this way. 360 00:18:29,691 --> 00:18:31,276 Couldn't argue with that. 361 00:18:31,276 --> 00:18:33,570 But then when there's this thick book of other people 362 00:18:33,570 --> 00:18:36,573 that were born into the Catholic Church, and as soon as they questioned it, 363 00:18:36,573 --> 00:18:39,701 they were martyred or harassed or tormented, 364 00:18:41,036 --> 00:18:42,621 and they stood for it. 365 00:18:42,621 --> 00:18:46,708 And the Anabaptist faith began out of that. 366 00:18:47,751 --> 00:18:49,837 It was it was just an eye opener for us. 367 00:18:49,837 --> 00:18:53,465 Like we thought we were the only ones who didn't get it, 368 00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:57,678 that they were all moving on, going through the liturgy 369 00:18:57,678 --> 00:19:02,057 and they all understood this, you know, and they maybe they did. 370 00:19:02,057 --> 00:19:05,435 Maybe that was they did get spiritual satisfaction out of that. 371 00:19:05,769 --> 00:19:07,688 But we were not. 372 00:19:07,688 --> 00:19:10,732 And we just personalize it like, what's wrong with us? 373 00:19:11,275 --> 00:19:14,278 So it's very validating to see, 374 00:19:14,528 --> 00:19:17,823 you know, in church history that this happened. 375 00:19:17,823 --> 00:19:21,702 And we're not quite as off as we thought. 376 00:19:23,203 --> 00:19:26,415 It was maybe a bit of a reassurance like oh there's something here. 377 00:19:26,456 --> 00:19:28,667 Very much so. very much so. 378 00:19:28,667 --> 00:19:31,670 And there we were in Holmes County like, you know, 379 00:19:32,004 --> 00:19:35,007 the Mecca of Anabaptists, you know, 380 00:19:35,257 --> 00:19:39,136 and it was like, this is a solid thing, even David's 381 00:19:39,136 --> 00:19:43,432 parents could see that this was a solid institution. 382 00:19:43,432 --> 00:19:46,185 A lot of their faith was in the church. 383 00:19:46,185 --> 00:19:48,103 So if the church said it was okay, 384 00:19:49,438 --> 00:19:51,064 you know, it was okay. 385 00:19:51,064 --> 00:19:55,152 So at least the Amish were kind of a institution for them. 386 00:19:56,153 --> 00:19:56,737 Yeah. 387 00:19:56,737 --> 00:19:59,531 You know, it that that helped. 388 00:19:59,531 --> 00:20:00,616 There was a lot of custom, 389 00:20:00,616 --> 00:20:03,619 a lot of tradition that helped them do that mental shift. 390 00:20:04,745 --> 00:20:07,497 But it was very reassuring, 391 00:20:07,497 --> 00:20:08,707 to us. 392 00:20:08,707 --> 00:20:13,712 And at that point, Steve and Lester invited us to attend church. 393 00:20:14,504 --> 00:20:17,549 We asked them the difference between Old Order and New Order 394 00:20:17,549 --> 00:20:21,470 because like I said, this new age, you know, What is this? 395 00:20:21,470 --> 00:20:23,096 That still kind of just cracks me up. 396 00:20:23,096 --> 00:20:26,058 But it just kind of shows just to flag it as it goes by. 397 00:20:26,058 --> 00:20:30,646 You know, like you guys are coming in with very little context, right? 398 00:20:30,687 --> 00:20:33,899 I mean, you're on a journey and you're searching and you have a lot of questions. 399 00:20:34,024 --> 00:20:35,400 And now of course, we can look back 400 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,653 and then kind of chuckle and be like, oh, that's funny that, 401 00:20:37,653 --> 00:20:40,739 you know, you kind of had that that idea of what New Order Amish was. 402 00:20:40,739 --> 00:20:44,159 Now we all know, oh, well, that's not what it is, but it kind of just shows 403 00:20:44,159 --> 00:20:48,288 like, yeah, there was probably an enormous learning curve, you know. 404 00:20:48,664 --> 00:20:51,124 Yeah. That's and that's part of this whole story. 405 00:20:51,124 --> 00:20:53,335 And, you know, as much or as little as you want to get into that. 406 00:20:53,335 --> 00:20:56,838 But anyways, to continue I just want to grab that as it goes by is. 407 00:20:56,838 --> 00:20:57,839 Yeah and there is, there’s kind of a thought 408 00:20:57,839 --> 00:21:02,344 among seekers, which is kind of the name we give to people that look, 409 00:21:02,594 --> 00:21:06,598 look to join the Amish, or get really intensely curious. 410 00:21:07,099 --> 00:21:12,437 We call them seekers in general and just kind of a, a trend. 411 00:21:12,604 --> 00:21:14,773 We tend to be extremists. 412 00:21:14,773 --> 00:21:19,945 So if if a seeker is gonna obey the Bible, they're obeying every word. 413 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,865 So they begin to view culturally that the most conservative group 414 00:21:23,865 --> 00:21:25,033 must be the holiest. 415 00:21:26,285 --> 00:21:27,244 I have heard that. 416 00:21:27,244 --> 00:21:32,874 And and so you go in and you go, okay, what what's what's a Swartzentruber Amish? 417 00:21:33,250 --> 00:21:35,711 Because everyone will say that those are the most conservative. 418 00:21:35,711 --> 00:21:39,339 So I want to check those out, you know, and the Swartzentruber amish are like... 419 00:21:39,339 --> 00:21:42,301 what what what. 420 00:21:42,843 --> 00:21:45,220 Do you really want to learn German. 421 00:21:45,220 --> 00:21:48,223 What? You know, they don't get it at all. 422 00:21:48,307 --> 00:21:52,311 But you you go in there with this idea of older is better. 423 00:21:53,020 --> 00:21:55,897 So old order must be better than new order. 424 00:21:55,897 --> 00:21:58,817 Swartzentruber must be better than old order 425 00:21:58,817 --> 00:22:01,778 because they're more conservative. 426 00:22:01,778 --> 00:22:03,989 And, you know, it's a myth. 427 00:22:03,989 --> 00:22:05,699 There are Christians Swartzentrubers. 428 00:22:05,699 --> 00:22:08,160 There are Christian Catholics. There are Christian New Order. 429 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,121 There are Christian old order, you know, it's 430 00:22:11,121 --> 00:22:14,333 it's it's all, you know, they're humans. 431 00:22:14,333 --> 00:22:15,876 They're people. 432 00:22:15,876 --> 00:22:20,339 So we had to kind of pull away from that. 433 00:22:20,339 --> 00:22:22,215 That mindset 434 00:22:22,215 --> 00:22:26,470 that there was some sort of holiness in, in pumping your own water and carrying it. 435 00:22:27,804 --> 00:22:28,263 I got. 436 00:22:28,263 --> 00:22:28,972 Yeah. 437 00:22:28,972 --> 00:22:33,810 And so that probably I could I obviously my story is not anywhere 438 00:22:33,852 --> 00:22:38,023 the same as yours, but I can kind of imagine that happening. 439 00:22:38,023 --> 00:22:38,523 Right. 440 00:22:38,523 --> 00:22:42,819 And also that being a bit of a process to kind of work through as well. 441 00:22:42,819 --> 00:22:43,153 Right. 442 00:22:43,153 --> 00:22:46,573 And we saw people we, you know, families would then get referred to us. 443 00:22:46,740 --> 00:22:47,824 Oh, we you know, 444 00:22:47,824 --> 00:22:52,496 I began to write like for family life and pathway papers and keepers at home. 445 00:22:52,746 --> 00:22:55,957 So our name got around, you know, and so families 446 00:22:55,957 --> 00:22:59,669 would show up on our door sometimes literally knock knock knock. 447 00:22:59,669 --> 00:23:02,464 Hey, we heard you went from Catholic to Amish. 448 00:23:02,464 --> 00:23:02,798 Yeah. 449 00:23:02,798 --> 00:23:06,218 Come on in, you know, so we saw a lot of people 450 00:23:06,218 --> 00:23:11,598 and that was almost universally a situation where they would see. 451 00:23:11,848 --> 00:23:15,185 That they would think that, you know, 452 00:23:15,519 --> 00:23:18,688 the most conservative meant the most holy. 453 00:23:20,023 --> 00:23:22,234 By that point, we were fully 454 00:23:22,234 --> 00:23:25,362 members and living in a healthy Christian environment. 455 00:23:25,362 --> 00:23:28,615 And we were like, no, it's got to be that 456 00:23:28,990 --> 00:23:31,993 your focus is on the Lord and living for the Lord. 457 00:23:32,661 --> 00:23:36,790 And if you can do that as a Swartzentruber Amish, go for it. 458 00:23:36,790 --> 00:23:39,418 If you can do that as a Catholic, go for it. 459 00:23:39,418 --> 00:23:42,379 If you can do that as a Mennonite, go for it. 460 00:23:42,379 --> 00:23:44,840 You know, that was our message to these people. 461 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,008 Some didn't like that. 462 00:23:47,008 --> 00:23:49,803 I can imagine though because it's almost like well well yeah. 463 00:23:49,803 --> 00:23:54,349 But just give me the list of things and then that this is the real thing. 464 00:23:55,559 --> 00:23:58,979 But what you were just describing, that sounds like a lot more work, 465 00:23:58,979 --> 00:24:02,274 a lot longer of a journey, a lot more processing through. 466 00:24:02,274 --> 00:24:04,317 Okay. What is God calling me to do? 467 00:24:04,317 --> 00:24:07,446 You know, where should I be? 468 00:24:07,446 --> 00:24:09,614 Where do I fit in? What is this? 469 00:24:09,614 --> 00:24:12,325 What is the community I should be integrating into? Right. 470 00:24:13,702 --> 00:24:14,870 Wow. This. 471 00:24:14,870 --> 00:24:16,163 I'm again. 472 00:24:16,163 --> 00:24:21,877 I can't really imagine the shift that this must have been for you all, doing this. 473 00:24:21,877 --> 00:24:25,130 So you, you know, go from, it sounds like a fairly nominal, 474 00:24:25,714 --> 00:24:28,008 environment Catholic church. 475 00:24:28,008 --> 00:24:30,635 Then this whole journey you were just describing, 476 00:24:30,635 --> 00:24:33,638 you integrate into the Amish, community. 477 00:24:33,638 --> 00:24:35,432 You become a member there. 478 00:24:35,432 --> 00:24:37,184 You're not Amish anymore. 479 00:24:37,184 --> 00:24:40,854 And, as much or as little as you'd like to share about that part. 480 00:24:40,854 --> 00:24:42,522 The next phase of the story of. 481 00:24:42,522 --> 00:24:45,484 Okay, what brings us up to today? 482 00:24:45,484 --> 00:24:48,236 it I mean it is a longer story. 483 00:24:48,236 --> 00:24:50,947 And any time you're shifting from a church it's hard. 484 00:24:50,947 --> 00:24:53,950 It was hard to leave the Catholic Church. 485 00:24:54,451 --> 00:24:55,660 I, it was very. 486 00:24:55,660 --> 00:24:58,371 We were born David even had said we were born here. 487 00:24:58,371 --> 00:25:00,499 We're going to, we’ll serve God here. 488 00:25:00,499 --> 00:25:02,626 Then all at once he said to me, 489 00:25:02,626 --> 00:25:05,921 I mean, I just remember where we were because I was so shocked. 490 00:25:05,921 --> 00:25:09,549 And he looked over and said, you know, I don't think we can obey the Bible anymore 491 00:25:10,091 --> 00:25:11,968 and stay Catholic. 492 00:25:11,968 --> 00:25:16,640 And I was blown away because I had laid down leaving the Catholic Church. 493 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,643 At that point, it was just like, this is, 494 00:25:19,768 --> 00:25:23,146 you know, causing I'm upset, I'm leaving it alone. 495 00:25:23,522 --> 00:25:26,525 And it's almost like as soon as I handed it over to God, 496 00:25:26,733 --> 00:25:29,945 David was like, I don't think we can obey the Bible and stay Catholic. 497 00:25:31,154 --> 00:25:31,696 Which isn't 498 00:25:31,696 --> 00:25:35,450 to say, and I don't want to say that others, you know, can't. 499 00:25:35,450 --> 00:25:36,159 I think that's a 500 00:25:36,159 --> 00:25:40,914 yeah, that's an important little You know, I know I know many Christian Catholics. 501 00:25:40,914 --> 00:25:41,748 Okay. 502 00:25:41,748 --> 00:25:45,085 But where he was taking us and the journey he was pointing 503 00:25:45,085 --> 00:25:49,673 us, David, as the leader of the family, made a shift. 504 00:25:50,674 --> 00:25:54,344 That's a, that's a I think a really important piece to not miss is like, 505 00:25:55,011 --> 00:25:58,014 you had to be honest with what God was telling you and say, 506 00:25:58,390 --> 00:26:01,935 this might be really uncomfortable, but we to follow our 507 00:26:02,269 --> 00:26:05,063 what we think God wants us to do or what we believe we're supposed to be doing, 508 00:26:05,063 --> 00:26:06,690 we're going to have to make some changes. 509 00:26:06,690 --> 00:26:07,732 That's really hard. 510 00:26:07,732 --> 00:26:10,443 And the church represents an authority figure. 511 00:26:10,443 --> 00:26:13,905 So it's like we felt like we were pushing against an authority figure 512 00:26:14,364 --> 00:26:18,952 because you have you are taught in the Catholic tradition 513 00:26:19,286 --> 00:26:23,832 the same as in our our tradition to have respect for the church 514 00:26:23,832 --> 00:26:29,045 as an institution, more so in the Catholic setting than in ours. 515 00:26:29,421 --> 00:26:34,134 The church is I mean, you go way back in history, it was actually a government. 516 00:26:34,634 --> 00:26:37,721 You know, if you broke a church law, you were breaking civil law. 517 00:26:38,263 --> 00:26:38,597 Okay. 518 00:26:38,597 --> 00:26:42,225 So that, I mean, it has a pull of authority. 519 00:26:42,851 --> 00:26:44,644 So we're kicking against authority. 520 00:26:44,644 --> 00:26:49,190 And obviously we are going against stream with all this. 521 00:26:49,649 --> 00:26:52,152 And we weren't we were not bold people. 522 00:26:52,152 --> 00:26:55,363 So it was very uncharacteristic, 523 00:26:55,363 --> 00:26:59,242 which made us suspect it was God like, this isn't our idea. 524 00:26:59,784 --> 00:27:02,037 Who would think of joining the Amish? 525 00:27:02,037 --> 00:27:03,580 Like, really? No. 526 00:27:04,789 --> 00:27:07,751 You know, it's not like we, like, oh, we want to be Amish. 527 00:27:07,876 --> 00:27:09,794 We are almost like, really? 528 00:27:09,794 --> 00:27:10,712 Lord, really? 529 00:27:10,712 --> 00:27:11,755 Lord, really? 530 00:27:11,755 --> 00:27:13,423 You know, 531 00:27:13,423 --> 00:27:16,384 but the way he let the dominoes fall 532 00:27:16,384 --> 00:27:19,596 and and David's confession at that point of 533 00:27:20,096 --> 00:27:24,726 of wanting to stick with the Bible as his source, that was. 534 00:27:24,851 --> 00:27:26,227 Huge. 535 00:27:26,227 --> 00:27:28,647 And we began to visit the church 536 00:27:28,647 --> 00:27:31,650 that Steve and Lester went to. 537 00:27:32,233 --> 00:27:36,780 And they went on with as we showed interest in moving into the community. 538 00:27:37,614 --> 00:27:40,617 They made all of those arrangements. 539 00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:44,621 And so again, we see God's hand looking back, 540 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,334 it was an ideal setup where the Lord put us, who he put us with. 541 00:27:50,168 --> 00:27:54,047 A beautiful couple, he was the deacon in the New Order church, 542 00:27:54,547 --> 00:27:57,676 and he really discipled us. 543 00:27:57,676 --> 00:28:01,012 He and his wife and our houses were connected. 544 00:28:01,012 --> 00:28:03,973 Was a Daudi house. So there was just a door between us. 545 00:28:03,973 --> 00:28:05,308 They discipled us. 546 00:28:05,308 --> 00:28:09,062 They helped us with with the doctrine, with our hearts. 547 00:28:09,521 --> 00:28:11,481 And the rest of the church did the. 548 00:28:11,481 --> 00:28:13,358 This is we'll find you a horse. 549 00:28:13,358 --> 00:28:16,236 We'll teach you to ride a drive a buggy. 550 00:28:16,236 --> 00:28:18,530 We'll show you how to milk a goat. 551 00:28:18,530 --> 00:28:20,448 We'll show you how to sew 552 00:28:21,449 --> 00:28:21,700 a dress. 553 00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:22,492 A lot of that stuff. 554 00:28:22,492 --> 00:28:25,537 Like I said, we're already kind of homesteaders, so that wasn't too 555 00:28:25,537 --> 00:28:28,832 terrible of a shift, but it was just like Emen 556 00:28:28,832 --> 00:28:31,835 and Ada, just discipled our hearts. 557 00:28:32,293 --> 00:28:37,257 Lots of popcorn in their kitchen, lots of popcorn, precious memories. 558 00:28:37,257 --> 00:28:39,300 And we lived there for five years. 559 00:28:39,300 --> 00:28:42,303 We were baptized in that setting. 560 00:28:42,637 --> 00:28:46,433 One thing that I did want to mention that that really touched us, 561 00:28:46,433 --> 00:28:49,436 because when you talk about all of the different churches, 562 00:28:49,602 --> 00:28:54,274 you go to a place like Holmes County, which is similar to Lancaster County 563 00:28:54,274 --> 00:28:57,819 in that there are so many denominate, 564 00:28:57,819 --> 00:29:01,489 or not denominations, flavors of conservative churches, 565 00:29:02,282 --> 00:29:06,077 you just have the whole spectrum to basically choose from. 566 00:29:06,244 --> 00:29:08,663 For somebody like us who had the freedom to pick 567 00:29:10,165 --> 00:29:13,168 when we asked Lester and Steve 568 00:29:13,460 --> 00:29:16,463 what the difference was between the new Order and the old order, 569 00:29:16,713 --> 00:29:21,134 their answer was so loving, so Christian, and so kind. 570 00:29:21,134 --> 00:29:23,762 It blew us away. 571 00:29:23,762 --> 00:29:25,221 It was a church split. 572 00:29:25,221 --> 00:29:26,723 It was hard. 573 00:29:26,723 --> 00:29:30,560 But they did not say, well, the old order, thus, thus and that. 574 00:29:30,852 --> 00:29:35,523 And we wanted thus, thus and that it was so loving that, 575 00:29:35,523 --> 00:29:40,779 that we didn't see that in any other church group that we ever visited 576 00:29:41,362 --> 00:29:43,865 since just that, 577 00:29:43,865 --> 00:29:47,452 that real respect and love for where they came from. 578 00:29:48,244 --> 00:29:52,373 It wasn't like, you know, we had had it with the following customs and, 579 00:29:53,249 --> 00:29:56,503 and that it just wasn't like that, which was very touching. 580 00:29:56,961 --> 00:29:59,923 And we found that amongst the New Order Amish in general. 581 00:30:00,632 --> 00:30:01,591 Yeah. 582 00:30:01,591 --> 00:30:04,469 So I did I just wanted to throw that in there. 583 00:30:04,469 --> 00:30:05,845 That's huge. 584 00:30:05,845 --> 00:30:09,140 So the next steps that happen from here. 585 00:30:09,766 --> 00:30:12,060 Bring us up to present day. 586 00:30:12,060 --> 00:30:14,562 So we moved after five years. 587 00:30:15,688 --> 00:30:16,481 Mostly for 588 00:30:16,481 --> 00:30:19,484 logistics, moved to a smaller community in Michigan. 589 00:30:20,443 --> 00:30:22,904 Financially we, you know, we couldn't really buy a farm 590 00:30:22,904 --> 00:30:25,907 in Holmes County, and we were kind of small town people. 591 00:30:25,990 --> 00:30:27,617 So we moved up to Michigan. 592 00:30:27,617 --> 00:30:29,953 That's where we raised, 593 00:30:29,953 --> 00:30:31,287 the bulk of our children. 594 00:30:31,287 --> 00:30:34,666 So that was like 15, probably about 15, 20 years. 595 00:30:35,375 --> 00:30:38,920 And so we went up to Michigan, raised our children 596 00:30:39,379 --> 00:30:43,258 there, and then our family ran into a family crisis. 597 00:30:43,258 --> 00:30:46,427 But at the same time, the church ran into a church crisis, 598 00:30:47,095 --> 00:30:50,223 which one fed which, we may never know. 599 00:30:50,765 --> 00:30:52,851 But we were all in crisis. 600 00:30:52,851 --> 00:30:56,729 And the church became very weak and I became very weak. 601 00:30:56,729 --> 00:30:59,566 I had some considerable medical. 602 00:30:59,566 --> 00:31:01,985 I was medically fragile, very ill. 603 00:31:01,985 --> 00:31:04,821 I needed a strong church, and that church 604 00:31:04,821 --> 00:31:07,782 was basically, well, it basically collapsed. 605 00:31:08,241 --> 00:31:10,660 So I needed to find fellowship elsewhere. 606 00:31:11,870 --> 00:31:14,247 And that's where the kind of long journey comes 607 00:31:14,247 --> 00:31:17,250 that I ended up coming to Pennsylvania for some healing, 608 00:31:18,084 --> 00:31:21,087 and then came back and came back 609 00:31:21,170 --> 00:31:24,132 every time I came, came here. 610 00:31:24,132 --> 00:31:26,926 I went to a particular congregation 611 00:31:26,926 --> 00:31:29,929 because I had a ride, I was Amish, I had to ride with somebody. 612 00:31:30,179 --> 00:31:32,056 So this is where my friend Linda went. 613 00:31:32,056 --> 00:31:36,311 So I went with Linda and her husband to church that was that was my ride. 614 00:31:36,311 --> 00:31:39,939 So whenever I was in Pennsylvania, I went to the open door 615 00:31:40,398 --> 00:31:44,027 Mennonite Church and it clicked. 616 00:31:44,652 --> 00:31:45,320 God thing. 617 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,532 I mean, I did like I said, there's dozens of churches even here in Pennsylvania. 618 00:31:50,199 --> 00:31:53,703 The way they handled my difficult situation and the way 619 00:31:53,703 --> 00:31:58,458 that they nurtured me through that and did not make demands, 620 00:31:58,708 --> 00:32:01,461 but were definitely there for me, 621 00:32:01,461 --> 00:32:04,422 was was awesome. 622 00:32:04,464 --> 00:32:06,925 And so when it got to the point 623 00:32:06,925 --> 00:32:11,304 where David was no longer interested in a conservative setting, 624 00:32:12,388 --> 00:32:15,391 but I was 625 00:32:15,516 --> 00:32:19,270 just that's where this is where I landed, and that's where I still am today. 626 00:32:19,270 --> 00:32:21,064 It's an outreach of Open Door, 627 00:32:21,064 --> 00:32:24,150 but it's still the same bishops, still the same people. 628 00:32:25,234 --> 00:32:27,195 This is just quite the story. 629 00:32:27,195 --> 00:32:29,656 And that's the thing with 630 00:32:29,656 --> 00:32:32,659 as we've had different people on the podcast tell their stories. 631 00:32:32,659 --> 00:32:36,204 It's basically never this perfectly linear straight line. 632 00:32:36,204 --> 00:32:38,331 You know it's like we started here and this was 633 00:32:38,331 --> 00:32:39,832 you know we needed blah blah blah. 634 00:32:39,832 --> 00:32:42,210 And we went took these steps and boom, here it is. 635 00:32:42,210 --> 00:32:43,878 It's it's always a journey. 636 00:32:43,878 --> 00:32:45,588 It you know, it sometimes 637 00:32:45,588 --> 00:32:48,967 feels kind of meandering or okay, we try this now then we're here and 638 00:32:49,425 --> 00:32:54,514 but it's it's part of that process of you have questions, you're seeking answers. 639 00:32:54,514 --> 00:32:57,976 You're, trying to do what you feel God is calling you to do. 640 00:32:57,976 --> 00:32:58,184 Right? 641 00:32:58,184 --> 00:33:01,980 And that's very much the theme that I'm hearing from you. 642 00:33:02,522 --> 00:33:05,316 What would you say to someone who 643 00:33:05,316 --> 00:33:08,152 who would say they're on the same journey they're trying to find? 644 00:33:08,152 --> 00:33:09,612 Where is a church I can plug into? 645 00:33:09,612 --> 00:33:12,240 I'm trying to find a community to, to be a part of. 646 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:13,992 And it's not working where I'm at. 647 00:33:13,992 --> 00:33:16,577 You know, I need I need that, 648 00:33:16,577 --> 00:33:18,997 whatever the case may be, I mean, every situation is different 649 00:33:18,997 --> 00:33:21,874 and and with that to before you jump into that, 650 00:33:21,874 --> 00:33:24,127 I want to also add, you know, it's not like we're 651 00:33:24,127 --> 00:33:27,130 trying to encourage people, oh, leave your church and go find some, you know. 652 00:33:27,130 --> 00:33:28,214 No, of course not. 653 00:33:28,214 --> 00:33:31,551 But there are definitely times where people are on a journey. 654 00:33:32,010 --> 00:33:34,637 And and we want to encourage those people. 655 00:33:34,637 --> 00:33:37,432 So what would you say to that. 656 00:33:37,432 --> 00:33:38,558 It's a really good question. 657 00:33:38,558 --> 00:33:41,728 We get with the seekers that come in 658 00:33:42,103 --> 00:33:45,481 almost always they will ask so do you recommend we do this. 659 00:33:46,607 --> 00:33:49,027 And like whoa that's big. 660 00:33:49,027 --> 00:33:51,821 We don't want to be responsible for that. 661 00:33:51,821 --> 00:33:55,450 The one answer that we gave them is only if God told you to. 662 00:33:56,409 --> 00:34:01,080 And we found that in our marriage to when things got tough knowing that 663 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:05,168 God ordained this is what got you through, God said so it's got, 664 00:34:05,752 --> 00:34:10,089 you know, we have to push forward because God is steering this boat. 665 00:34:10,673 --> 00:34:13,926 So concentrate on your relationship with the Lord 666 00:34:14,427 --> 00:34:17,889 and let him put you where you're supposed to go. 667 00:34:18,931 --> 00:34:22,060 That's that's kind of the the big thing for me. 668 00:34:22,477 --> 00:34:25,480 I see people in churches that don't have 669 00:34:25,897 --> 00:34:30,651 maybe they have some traditions or customs that are they really question, 670 00:34:30,943 --> 00:34:34,572 but they decide they're going to stay and build that church up stronger and make 671 00:34:34,572 --> 00:34:35,031 it better. 672 00:34:36,157 --> 00:34:39,160 And, and I admire that, that they can do that. 673 00:34:39,285 --> 00:34:43,414 There are other people like, you know, I've got I've got some children 674 00:34:43,414 --> 00:34:47,710 and some young people, and I don't want to raise them in this context. 675 00:34:48,294 --> 00:34:51,297 Hey, if that's what the Lord is putting on your heart, 676 00:34:51,464 --> 00:34:54,258 you just got to stick close to the Lord. 677 00:34:54,258 --> 00:34:56,052 Stay in the word. 678 00:34:56,052 --> 00:35:01,766 Surround yourself with healthy Christians that that you feel are on the track. 679 00:35:01,933 --> 00:35:04,727 They're what you want to be. 680 00:35:04,727 --> 00:35:07,313 And and just keep at the word 681 00:35:07,313 --> 00:35:10,316 and keep asking questions of those people 682 00:35:10,691 --> 00:35:14,028 that you respect that you feel are living the word. 683 00:35:15,071 --> 00:35:17,198 And let the Lord direct you. 684 00:35:17,198 --> 00:35:19,575 That's that's the only way you can make it, 685 00:35:19,575 --> 00:35:23,746 because there's going to be bumps, just like in marriage, you know, like, 686 00:35:24,831 --> 00:35:26,207 they do what? 687 00:35:26,207 --> 00:35:27,667 You know? 688 00:35:27,667 --> 00:35:30,670 And that's when you need the Lord's kind of like, 689 00:35:30,670 --> 00:35:33,673 I it's like, I feel like his hand on my shoulder going, you know, 690 00:35:33,673 --> 00:35:36,551 I told you to do this, you know, you're, 691 00:35:36,551 --> 00:35:40,847 you know, in the ditch on a main street with the horse and buggy 692 00:35:41,556 --> 00:35:45,309 and you're in Holmes County and you're thinking, really, Lord, 693 00:35:45,852 --> 00:35:49,313 you know, and it's like, no, he said, you're supposed to try this. 694 00:35:49,939 --> 00:35:52,483 And that actually literally did happen to us. 695 00:35:52,483 --> 00:35:56,612 And up behind us comes this old gray haired Amish guy. 696 00:35:56,612 --> 00:35:59,282 And I'm thinking, oh, he's going to want to talk Dutch. 697 00:35:59,282 --> 00:36:00,491 We can't talk Dutch. 698 00:36:00,491 --> 00:36:03,119 We're going to have to try to explain our name to him. 699 00:36:03,119 --> 00:36:05,246 It was the bishop of our congregation, 700 00:36:06,581 --> 00:36:08,499 and he came and got us out of the ditch. 701 00:36:08,499 --> 00:36:10,960 God provides. 702 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:12,211 Yeah. 703 00:36:12,211 --> 00:36:15,882 That's this, this is quite the story and I just, 704 00:36:16,215 --> 00:36:19,343 I hope from what you've been sharing today that our listeners are hearing this 705 00:36:19,343 --> 00:36:21,179 and say, you know, I'm, I'm on a journey right now 706 00:36:21,179 --> 00:36:24,182 too and I hope this is an encouragement to them to, 707 00:36:24,932 --> 00:36:27,643 you know, faithfulness I think is a thread that's coming through perseverance 708 00:36:27,643 --> 00:36:27,977 this stuff. 709 00:36:27,977 --> 00:36:31,147 Didn't you know, it's not like you woke up one day and boom, had all the answers 710 00:36:31,147 --> 00:36:31,856 and everything worked. 711 00:36:31,856 --> 00:36:32,857 And you know this. 712 00:36:32,857 --> 00:36:35,860 You know it can be years. And, 713 00:36:36,194 --> 00:36:37,945 there's something encouraging about that. 714 00:36:37,945 --> 00:36:40,781 And so as we wrap this, this episode up, 715 00:36:40,781 --> 00:36:43,784 bring all the pieces together and, and tie the ribbons on this package. 716 00:36:43,993 --> 00:36:46,996 Is there any anything you would like to leave with our audience? 717 00:36:47,330 --> 00:36:51,250 You know, I think what I said about sticking with the scriptures, 718 00:36:51,292 --> 00:36:55,171 you know, that is that's the big thing, you know, 719 00:36:55,504 --> 00:37:00,551 the whole Anabaptist movement was on, you know, solely the scriptures. 720 00:37:00,718 --> 00:37:05,139 Let's concentrate on the Word of God and make that our building block. 721 00:37:05,514 --> 00:37:10,394 Not society, not culture, not all of the other things that are competing. 722 00:37:10,853 --> 00:37:13,940 But that became our measuring stick for everything. 723 00:37:14,941 --> 00:37:16,150 And if you're staying 724 00:37:16,150 --> 00:37:19,153 in the word and that is your measuring stick 725 00:37:19,237 --> 00:37:24,283 and and the Holy Spirit is working in you, the Lord will direct you. 726 00:37:24,617 --> 00:37:26,369 He's it's not trick questions. 727 00:37:26,369 --> 00:37:28,704 He's not trying to trick us, 728 00:37:28,704 --> 00:37:31,582 you know, and I think that's why the conservative people who 729 00:37:31,582 --> 00:37:35,253 who think that the most conservative churches would be the holiest 730 00:37:35,544 --> 00:37:38,756 is because you can do that with a checklist. 731 00:37:38,756 --> 00:37:40,466 Learn to haul water, check. 732 00:37:40,466 --> 00:37:43,344 Learn to butcher chickens. Check. 733 00:37:43,344 --> 00:37:46,305 You know, learn to use a chainsaw. 734 00:37:46,305 --> 00:37:46,722 Check. 735 00:37:46,722 --> 00:37:50,184 You know, our carnal minds want to do that. 736 00:37:50,643 --> 00:37:52,520 It's not that easy. Give me the to do list. 737 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:53,729 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 738 00:37:53,729 --> 00:37:56,941 And I'll just knock that all off, and then I'm a right good amishman. 739 00:37:57,358 --> 00:37:59,652 You know, it's so easy or or Mennonite or whatever. 740 00:37:59,652 --> 00:38:02,780 It's very easy for us humans to fall into that, 741 00:38:03,406 --> 00:38:06,117 and our lifestyle lends itself to that. 742 00:38:06,117 --> 00:38:11,122 It's great things in our lifestyle, but it's the word base it on the word. 743 00:38:11,455 --> 00:38:15,960 And if the word is telling you that you're supposed to serve God in that setting, 744 00:38:16,919 --> 00:38:18,087 he'll open the doors. 745 00:38:18,087 --> 00:38:21,090 You don't have to kick against the pricks. 746 00:38:21,924 --> 00:38:22,300 Yeah. 747 00:38:22,300 --> 00:38:26,387 I think that's a powerful one to end on and encourage our listeners 748 00:38:26,387 --> 00:38:26,929 with that piece. 749 00:38:26,929 --> 00:38:30,308 So hopefully through your story that they've learned some things 750 00:38:30,308 --> 00:38:33,436 and say okay yeah I have some something to think about. 751 00:38:33,436 --> 00:38:33,811 You know. 752 00:38:33,811 --> 00:38:39,108 And I just really appreciate you you coming on today and telling your story. 753 00:38:39,525 --> 00:38:41,110 I don't take something like that lightly. 754 00:38:41,110 --> 00:38:43,070 You know, this is this is a process that you went through. 755 00:38:43,070 --> 00:38:45,698 And I feel like we have a lot to learn from what you went through. 756 00:38:45,698 --> 00:38:47,908 So thank you for sharing today. You're welcome. 757 00:38:47,908 --> 00:38:49,243 Thank you for having me. 758 00:38:50,202 --> 00:38:52,913 Thanks for listening to this episode with Elizabeth. 759 00:38:52,913 --> 00:38:55,333 So a number of years ago, we interviewed Samantha 760 00:38:55,333 --> 00:38:58,502 about her journey from the Catholic Church into the Anabaptist movement. 761 00:38:58,502 --> 00:39:01,505 And you can find that linked in the description down below. 762 00:39:01,547 --> 00:39:04,216 We also have several other podcasts that you can follow as well, 763 00:39:04,216 --> 00:39:06,886 and you can find all of those linked below as well. 764 00:39:06,886 --> 00:39:10,514 We're releasing an entire course taught by Frank Reed as its own YouTube 765 00:39:10,514 --> 00:39:11,724 and podcast channel, 766 00:39:11,724 --> 00:39:15,269 and I think you'll find that material interesting and helpful. 767 00:39:15,269 --> 00:39:16,937 And again, all of that is down below 768 00:39:16,937 --> 00:39:20,941 and on our website at anabaptistperspectives.org 769 00:39:20,941 --> 00:39:21,650 Thanks again for 770 00:39:21,650 --> 00:39:24,487 listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.