Speaker: 00:00:00

So we're kicking against authority.

00:00:02,293 --> 00:00:06,840

And obviously we are going against stream

with all this.

00:00:07,298 --> 00:00:09,801

And we weren't we were not bold people.

00:00:09,801 --> 00:00:13,013

So it was very uncharacteristic,

00:00:13,013 --> 00:00:16,891

which made us suspect

it was God like, this isn't our idea.

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Who would think of joining the Amish?

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Like, really? No.

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You know, it's not like we, like,

oh, we want to be Amish.

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We are almost like, really?

00:00:32,866 --> 00:00:33,867

Today it's,

00:00:33,867 --> 00:00:37,620

it's a privilege to have Elizabeth Vendley

on the podcast, and.

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Elizabeth, I'm.

00:00:38,997 --> 00:00:43,084

I'm pretty sure you're

the only person I know that was Roman

00:00:43,084 --> 00:00:46,129

Catholic

and ultimately ended up in the Amish.

00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:48,173

And now you're a Mennonite.

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And that's quite an interesting story.

00:00:51,134 --> 00:00:53,511

And I'm hoping

to catch some pieces of that today

00:00:53,511 --> 00:00:56,514

and maybe some,

some lessons pulled out of that process.

00:00:57,015 --> 00:00:58,558

So let's just jump right into it.

00:00:58,558 --> 00:01:02,437

Tell me about your experience

as a Catholic and.

00:01:02,687 --> 00:01:04,355

Yeah. What was that? What was that like?

00:01:04,355 --> 00:01:08,818

I was born

and raised in a typical American

00:01:09,027 --> 00:01:12,030

middle class society household.

00:01:12,238 --> 00:01:14,699

My mom was Catholic

and my dad was an atheist.

00:01:14,699 --> 00:01:18,495

But in the Catholic Church,

if you marry a Catholic,

00:01:18,495 --> 00:01:21,498

you have to agree to have your children

raised Catholic.

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So my parents did that.

00:01:23,833 --> 00:01:27,128

My dad didn't go to church,

but we went every Sunday.

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My mom took us and dad would come

sometimes on the big holidays

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just because that's what you did.

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So mass was a weekly thing

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and religion classes during the week.

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Once you're in school age

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and that is the one thing

that I appreciate,

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is that

00:01:48,775 --> 00:01:51,486

my mom would not have considered herself

a devout Catholic.

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She actually used to make the comment,

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I hope I'm a better Christian

than I am a Catholic.

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Although,

the Catholic Church has days of obligation

00:01:59,953 --> 00:02:02,789

or saint's days

where you have to go to church,

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which she usually makes

sure we went on those extra days.

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Nonetheless, she wasn't a devout,

00:02:10,505 --> 00:02:13,508

you know, rosary praying type Catholic.

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And she would take us to church every,

every Sunday.

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And I always gives

the Catholic Church credit

00:02:21,266 --> 00:02:25,687

that they read the gospel

as part, a small part of

00:02:25,979 --> 00:02:29,607

of one of the four Gospels during mass.

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You always get a short bit of that.

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It is the Catholic translation,

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but it's the gospel so I it

00:02:39,159 --> 00:02:42,287

there was always enough

for the Holy Spirit to, you know, it's

00:02:42,287 --> 00:02:46,207

like spoon feed me

until I was old enough to know where

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where the Lord was going to take me.

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With all of that, I was a serious child,

I so I paid attention in church.

00:02:53,715 --> 00:02:57,135

I don't know why,

I just really did. And so,

00:02:58,469 --> 00:03:02,015

that that was just always the way

my brain thought.

00:03:02,557 --> 00:03:04,184

I considered myself a Christian.

00:03:04,184 --> 00:03:07,061

I went to the youth group at church.

00:03:07,061 --> 00:03:09,898

People viewed me as a Christian.

00:03:09,898 --> 00:03:12,734

I did have a very controversial class

00:03:12,734 --> 00:03:16,487

in my Christian high school, or,

I'm sorry, Catholic high school.

00:03:17,447 --> 00:03:19,824

That was Catholic church history,

00:03:19,824 --> 00:03:23,620

and he taught the real Catholic

Church history.

00:03:24,287 --> 00:03:27,165

And it was controversial

because there were some things

00:03:27,165 --> 00:03:31,002

in the Catholic Church history

that weren't always the best.

00:03:31,502 --> 00:03:34,964

I feel like he's

put them in the proper context.

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This was before the Reformation.

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That meant reform.

00:03:38,801 --> 00:03:39,802

We reformed.

00:03:39,802 --> 00:03:42,722

We as a church got better.

00:03:42,722 --> 00:03:44,641

I knew the truth,

00:03:44,641 --> 00:03:47,227

for better

and for worse, about the Catholic Church,

00:03:47,227 --> 00:03:50,271

but things just weren't totally clicking

00:03:50,897 --> 00:03:54,400

and I kind of thought

that was just spiritual immaturity.

00:03:55,526 --> 00:03:58,321

I thought, well, when I grow up,

I'll understand these things.

00:03:58,321 --> 00:04:01,324

Everybody around me at church gets this.

00:04:01,491 --> 00:04:03,076

Why am I not getting it?

00:04:03,076 --> 00:04:04,661

You know, it must be me.

00:04:04,661 --> 00:04:08,289

And when I met my husband, David,

he was my supervisor at a job.

00:04:08,289 --> 00:04:11,292

We worked in a group home

for disabled children,

00:04:11,668 --> 00:04:14,420

and when I found out he was Catholic,

I'm like, oh yeah, that's good.

00:04:14,420 --> 00:04:19,342

But as we got talking,

I found out he had the same like that

00:04:19,342 --> 00:04:22,345

feeling of I don't really totally get it.

00:04:22,762 --> 00:04:26,182

I'm Catholic,

but I really don't totally get it.

00:04:26,933 --> 00:04:28,851

So we were on the same track.

00:04:28,851 --> 00:04:33,231

We weren't necessarily spiritual people,

but we're kind of on the same track,

00:04:33,606 --> 00:04:36,609

which to us was a green light,

you know, to move forward.

00:04:36,985 --> 00:04:40,613

So can you, could you dial in on

what were some of those things.

00:04:40,863 --> 00:04:43,866

Do you know specifically

or was it just a general sense.

00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:45,493

I do now. Back then

I, you know, it was a little bit,

00:04:46,494 --> 00:04:48,329

a little bit unclear.

00:04:48,329 --> 00:04:51,457

I didn't understand the doctrines

behind the communion liturgy,

00:04:52,041 --> 00:04:53,876

and the way that they do communion.

00:04:53,876 --> 00:04:56,504

I didn't quite get it.

00:04:56,504 --> 00:04:59,757

At the infant baptism,

I never did understand that,

00:04:59,757 --> 00:05:05,013

because intellectually, I knew

what an adult believer's baptism was.

00:05:05,305 --> 00:05:07,515

You know, growing up in America,

I knew what that was.

00:05:07,515 --> 00:05:09,726

And it's like, that makes more sense.

00:05:09,726 --> 00:05:12,729

You know, right away, logically,

that made sense.

100

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The nuns covered their head

when I was younger,

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and then they stopped in the,

oh, about mid 60s,

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but most of them kept kept

wearing their veils.

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Well, I honored

those women were my heroes.

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So Holy Woman was wearing a covering.

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Why weren't the rest of us?

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That bugged me as a child.

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When I would hear that scripture,

I was like,

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I don't get it because we're not doing it.

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I must be spiritually immature.

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And that's usually the answer.

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You kind of get in in one phrase

or another, you know,

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I just kind of conform

and go along with all the fishes and,

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and that's what we did.

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So you're clearly you're on a journey

like you're searching for something.

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You're, you're looking for something more

and you're saying that at the time

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it was more of this general sense

that, you know, now, in retrospect,

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it's easy

to kind of pinpoint down on some things.

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Yeah, start start

walking us through the journey.

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Then, like, you're looking for something,

you're searching for answers.

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What steps do you start taking in that?

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Well I call it holy unrest.

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That's what we had was Holy unrest.

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There was enough of the Holy Spirit

going in us that this just isn't right.

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But we didn't know what.

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And we had been married

for about six years.

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And at that point we had three children.

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And we felt that as parents of three

children, God

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certainly would have given us some insight

into how to raise them doctrinally.

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They were getting

our oldest was getting towards school age.

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How do I teach them a doctrine

I don't really believe in?

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I need to understand this doctrine.

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So that unrest led us to the Bible.

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We both had Bibles read them on occasion.

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Not a regular thing.

135

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David's was a Catholic translation.

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Mine was a King James.

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And so we would read them on occasion

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and talk about it on and off.

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Then I became ill, with a pregnancy

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where I was stuck on the couch from April

until September.

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And I have three small children.

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Okay.

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We're not in an Anabaptist setting.

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There are no hired girls.

145

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There are not extended family.

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So, I mean, I was on my own,

with these children in the living room.

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So I was, you know, reading my Bible

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and because, okay,

I can make this new daily habit.

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I've got to sit all day.

I'm going to do this.

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So I started reading the Bible.

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We had also been pretty active

in kind of homesteading type

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things like baking bread, canning,

really into canning.

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So as we went to get our supplies

for canning,

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we would come up against

or come across plain people,

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Old Order

156

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Amish and some other, you know, varieties.

157

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Back then it was a predominantly

in that area, the Old Order Amish.

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So we'd see them at the sales

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and we began to wonder,

see more similarities

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with ourselves and them than with,

say, the women at the playground at school

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or David's coworkers, like

we had more in common with these people.

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And then somebody at the sale

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had mentioned that they were Christians,

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and I had thought

they were Messianic Jews.

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So I was like. Oh.

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You know, they had asked me,

I at that point was wearing

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just kind of a plain sack dress

and a headscarf,

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and someone asked me

if I was some type of Amish or Mennonite.

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I said, no, I'm a Christian.

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And they're like,

well, Amish are Christians.

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They are.

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You know, to me, a Christian was the guy

throwing tracks out on the subway,

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you know, and hollering.

It's like, no, that's not.

174

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Oh. Wow. Yeah.

175

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I mean, you just didn't really have

any context for this world initially.

176

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And so and so I said like New Testament

Christians.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. New Testament Christians

178

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to this day, I don't know,

179

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was that an angel or what?

180

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So, as was our habit,

we loved the library.

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This was back in the day when you didn't

have, you know, the internet.

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So we're going to go

look this up at the library.

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And we happened on a book by

184

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John Hostettler called Amish Society.

185

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That book went through

the whole Anabaptist movement,

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the Anabaptist history.

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And then it takes apart the

188

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the Amish culture or in general,

the conservative Anabaptist culture

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and the reasons why they do things

and what Scripture is behind it.

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Well, we loved this,

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because what I liked about that book is

I kept putting it down to read the Bible.

192

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We checked that book out

over and over again because we couldn't

193

00:10:06,897 --> 00:10:07,356

get through it.

194

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We kept putting it down to go, oh,

oh yeah, oh oh yeah.

195

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And we just had one aha moment

after the other

196

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and David would come home from work

and I would share this.

197

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And this just ended up

being a constant conversation.

198

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so this is the journey and it's,

it sounds like there was

199

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a lot of pieces, there was a lot of time

probably passing right.

200

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Like this didn't happen overnight. Right.

201

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So then somewhere in this process

202

00:10:36,135 --> 00:10:40,598

you, leave the Catholic Church

and end up joining the Amish.

203

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So. So tell me about that.

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As a timeline,

I can tell you that I remember

205

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when I went to the hospital when I first

started having my pregnancy complications.

206

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That would have been in April of 1989.

207

00:10:56,238 --> 00:10:58,699

I wore maternity pants

208

00:10:58,699 --> 00:11:01,827

when I came home from having that baby

in October

209

00:11:02,870 --> 00:11:06,415

to pack sweat pants or something

was not like, that's not right.

210

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So I kind of have that in my head,

is where my convictions

211

00:11:10,670 --> 00:11:13,839

about my appearance really came through.

212

00:11:14,423 --> 00:11:18,010

That, you know, it was not okay to wear

213

00:11:18,719 --> 00:11:21,347

pants anymore, you know?

214

00:11:21,347 --> 00:11:25,810

So that would have been October of 89

that that began,

215

00:11:25,810 --> 00:11:31,232

and by the time we had moved into

the Amish community would have been 1991.

216

00:11:32,191 --> 00:11:33,484

So that just

217

00:11:33,484 --> 00:11:37,613

kind of gives you how process,

how long the different things took.

218

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Obviously, having your fourth child and,

and she was a handful.

219

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She had some medical stomach things,

very distracting.

220

00:11:48,749 --> 00:11:51,419

But we were reading,

reading, reading, reading.

221

00:11:51,419 --> 00:11:54,422

We were readers

and we came across the budget.

222

00:11:55,297 --> 00:11:57,258

Okay.

223

00:11:57,258 --> 00:12:00,261

Oh, this is just so interesting.

224

00:12:00,594 --> 00:12:02,263

What a story. Okay.

225

00:12:02,263 --> 00:12:04,348

So that,

we would have probably picked up at the,

226

00:12:04,348 --> 00:12:06,142

at the sale,

that we bought our produce at.

227

00:12:06,142 --> 00:12:06,892

Okay.

228

00:12:06,892 --> 00:12:10,312

I was like, how in the world would you

have got ahold of the budget otherwise?

229

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Okay. Yeah.

230

00:12:11,272 --> 00:12:16,068

And someone had also,

sent us a tract about plain clothing

231

00:12:16,777 --> 00:12:19,780

I believe it was called what shall I wear.

232

00:12:20,114 --> 00:12:24,493

It was by a man named Lester

Beachy, printed by the Amish Brotherhood

233

00:12:24,493 --> 00:12:26,203

Publications.

234

00:12:26,203 --> 00:12:29,874

And this pamphlet really explained

what we were going through

235

00:12:29,874 --> 00:12:34,253

with our clothing change

because, we were close to David's parents.

236

00:12:34,253 --> 00:12:37,673

Mine, not as much, but David's parents

we were close to.

237

00:12:37,673 --> 00:12:39,467

And they just did not get this.

238

00:12:39,467 --> 00:12:41,177

What are you doing to my grandchildren?

239

00:12:41,177 --> 00:12:43,679

Making them wear dresses,

braiding their hair.

240

00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:44,680

What?

241

00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:48,309

You know, and we felt that this tract

really explained that well.

242

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So I sent him a letter asking,

could we get more of these tracts?

243

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By this time,

we knew the culture a little bit

244

00:12:56,066 --> 00:12:59,612

and found

especially man to woman, very standoffish.

245

00:13:00,070 --> 00:13:03,115

So I was just very polite and careful.

246

00:13:03,449 --> 00:13:08,370

And he sent back this warm letter

that was so obviously

247

00:13:08,788 --> 00:13:12,333

a born again Christian,

greeting me in the name of the Lord.

248

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And he was so excited

about the Lord's doing in our life.

249

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And he wants to hear more about this.

250

00:13:18,130 --> 00:13:20,257

And I don't know why I had this

connotation.

251

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The name Lester would be an old man.

252

00:13:23,260 --> 00:13:24,970

I guess

too, because he wrote in the Budget

253

00:13:24,970 --> 00:13:26,514

and he was obviously a good writer.

254

00:13:26,514 --> 00:13:30,100

So I just was picturing this wizened

old man with this long gray beard.

255

00:13:31,060 --> 00:13:34,355

So please come and visit us

if you're ever in Sugarcreek, Ohio,

256

00:13:34,855 --> 00:13:37,399

which at this point we are in Jiaga

County, Ohio.

257

00:13:37,399 --> 00:13:40,402

So it wasn't just maybe an hour

and a half away.

258

00:13:40,986 --> 00:13:43,989

So, we did.

259

00:13:44,740 --> 00:13:45,991

We we

260

00:13:45,991 --> 00:13:49,578

literally stopped in on the person,

which is so unlike my husband.

261

00:13:49,578 --> 00:13:52,581

He was not a bold person.

262

00:13:53,707 --> 00:13:55,459

So when he said he wanted to do this,

263

00:13:55,459 --> 00:13:58,462

I'm like, okay, lead on.

264

00:13:58,504 --> 00:14:00,214

Lester wasn't an old man.

265

00:14:00,214 --> 00:14:02,883

He was younger than us.

266

00:14:02,883 --> 00:14:05,135

And he ended up being

267

00:14:05,135 --> 00:14:08,931

one of the main vehicles

for us, actually, into the fellowship.

268

00:14:08,931 --> 00:14:10,307

We didn't expect it.

269

00:14:10,307 --> 00:14:12,434

We were just asking questions.

270

00:14:12,434 --> 00:14:15,229

Again, this is this is it

feels like this is a thread.

271

00:14:15,229 --> 00:14:17,648

It's just a searching,

you know, asking questions.

272

00:14:17,648 --> 00:14:18,816

Okay, well, what about this?

273

00:14:18,816 --> 00:14:20,985

And okay,

how do we live this out, you know,

274

00:14:20,985 --> 00:14:24,572

what do we do with these convictions

that we're starting to to experience

275

00:14:24,738 --> 00:14:25,823

and so forth?

276

00:14:25,823 --> 00:14:28,117

But then that piece by piece by piece,

right.

277

00:14:28,117 --> 00:14:31,120

Eventually you end up integrating

into the Amish.

278

00:14:31,328 --> 00:14:33,873

Yeah. Through that process.

That's that's incredible.

279

00:14:33,873 --> 00:14:34,456

Yeah.

280

00:14:34,456 --> 00:14:39,044

Well, Lester introduced us to someone

that was in his fellowship.

281

00:14:39,670 --> 00:14:42,548

Lester was what is called New Order Amish.

282

00:14:42,548 --> 00:14:45,217

So you have your old Order Amish,

which is horse and buggy.

283

00:14:45,217 --> 00:14:48,262

German speaking. New Order Amish is also

284

00:14:49,263 --> 00:14:53,017

buggy or buggy church that speaks German.

285

00:14:53,434 --> 00:14:54,852

They are a little more inclined

286

00:14:54,852 --> 00:14:57,855

to use English if somebody English

is present at their church.

287

00:14:58,814 --> 00:15:01,901

But their differences

aren't really so much in lifestyle.

288

00:15:02,526 --> 00:15:03,485

I mean, the two groups

289

00:15:03,485 --> 00:15:06,488

know the difference, but,

you know, nobody else would really know.

290

00:15:07,615 --> 00:15:10,618

To us, New Order sounded like New Age.

291

00:15:11,243 --> 00:15:13,579

We're like, uh oh, big flags.

292

00:15:13,579 --> 00:15:15,122

Like, I'm not sure I want to do this.

293

00:15:15,122 --> 00:15:17,041

Oh. That's funny.

294

00:15:17,041 --> 00:15:20,044

But, Lester had a friend

whose name was Steve,

295

00:15:20,669 --> 00:15:24,131

and Steve had married a New Order

Amish girl,

296

00:15:25,007 --> 00:15:27,134

and he had come

from the Catholic background.

297

00:15:27,134 --> 00:15:28,928

He wanted us to meet Steve.

298

00:15:28,928 --> 00:15:30,262

Interesting. Okay.

299

00:15:30,262 --> 00:15:34,058

So Steve, of course, did all the studying.

300

00:15:34,058 --> 00:15:35,768

We did,

301

00:15:35,768 --> 00:15:41,231

he had become attracted to this young lady

who ended up being very close.

302

00:15:41,231 --> 00:15:42,107

Dear friend of mine.

303

00:15:43,233 --> 00:15:45,611

He had been attracted and went to her dad.

304

00:15:45,611 --> 00:15:48,572

He said, you're not a Christian. No.

305

00:15:48,697 --> 00:15:51,075

And he said, well, what does that mean?

306

00:15:51,075 --> 00:15:52,326

And he gave Steve.

307

00:15:52,326 --> 00:15:53,869

Now I'm going off on a bunny trail.

308

00:15:53,869 --> 00:15:56,455

He gave Steve a a New Testament.

309

00:15:56,455 --> 00:16:00,167

He said, read this and then come back

and see if you understand

310

00:16:00,167 --> 00:16:02,044

what being a Christian is.

311

00:16:02,044 --> 00:16:05,047

He stayed up that night

and read the whole New Testament.

312

00:16:05,464 --> 00:16:06,256

This is kind of guy.

313

00:16:06,256 --> 00:16:09,301

Steve is Steve

is now a preacher, a Mennonite preacher.

314

00:16:09,843 --> 00:16:12,096

So at any rate.

315

00:16:12,096 --> 00:16:13,639

So Steve.

316

00:16:13,639 --> 00:16:18,102

In a conversation that we could really

relate to, having come from the world,

317

00:16:18,352 --> 00:16:21,355

went through the Anabaptist story,

the history,

318

00:16:21,397 --> 00:16:24,358

how the Amish came to be.

319

00:16:24,358 --> 00:16:27,611

And we were all, you know, aha moment,

one after another.

320

00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:32,199

Our children, in the meantime,

were outside playing for the first time

321

00:16:32,908 --> 00:16:34,243

on level ground,

322

00:16:34,243 --> 00:16:38,205

playing with children who understood

like they did, behaved like they did.

323

00:16:38,205 --> 00:16:39,164

Played like they did,

324

00:16:40,249 --> 00:16:41,750

not pulling in

325

00:16:41,750 --> 00:16:45,212

TV, not hollering, screaming. Not.

326

00:16:45,921 --> 00:16:48,048

They weren't the best kids around.

327

00:16:48,048 --> 00:16:50,342

They were the same.

328

00:16:50,342 --> 00:16:53,345

They weren't those,

you know, almost like today.

329

00:16:53,345 --> 00:16:55,139

We'd say those homeschool children

know that.

330

00:16:55,139 --> 00:16:57,433

Like, they're well-behaved

and they're all orderly.

331

00:16:57,433 --> 00:16:59,852

And your parents must be too strict.

332

00:16:59,852 --> 00:17:01,478

You know,

that's about how we were treated.

333

00:17:01,478 --> 00:17:04,023

Yeah, but our children fit in.

334

00:17:04,023 --> 00:17:06,108

We felt relaxed.

335

00:17:06,108 --> 00:17:09,695

And so Steve and Lester kind of went

336

00:17:09,695 --> 00:17:14,158

through the doctrinal things with us,

and we were just so agreed.

337

00:17:14,491 --> 00:17:18,996

We we just were having,

like I said, one aha moment after another,

338

00:17:19,455 --> 00:17:23,000

I believe it was Steve

that introduced us to the martyrs mirrors.

339

00:17:23,042 --> 00:17:27,963

It's a very thick book

full of stories of the early Anabaptists.

340

00:17:28,505 --> 00:17:32,760

That and, Bercot’s book, David Bercot’s

book.

341

00:17:33,385 --> 00:17:35,804

Will the real heretics please stand up?

342

00:17:35,804 --> 00:17:37,598

Very convicting.

343

00:17:37,598 --> 00:17:41,268

That helped us understand

why other Protestant churches

344

00:17:41,310 --> 00:17:44,688

weren't quite making it in our minds.

345

00:17:45,522 --> 00:17:48,609

He just articulated it like,

oh yeah, yeah,

346

00:17:48,609 --> 00:17:51,820

you know, which pointed us

right back to the Anabaptists.

347

00:17:53,113 --> 00:17:54,114

And yeah, everything

348

00:17:54,114 --> 00:17:57,117

just kept sending us back to Steve

and Lester with questions.

349

00:17:57,117 --> 00:17:59,787

When we saw the Martyrs Mirror

we were blown away.

350

00:17:59,787 --> 00:18:05,459

We were like, those,

that whole thick stack are other Catholics

351

00:18:05,793 --> 00:18:08,796

that didn't get it.

352

00:18:09,421 --> 00:18:10,297

Yeah.

353

00:18:10,297 --> 00:18:12,508

Drill into that a bit. Yeah. Yeah.

354

00:18:12,508 --> 00:18:15,094

You know when you're just like,

even in our churches,

355

00:18:15,094 --> 00:18:17,554

it's just assumed you stay in the church

that you're born in.

356

00:18:17,554 --> 00:18:20,933

Yeah. And so we grew up Catholic God.

357

00:18:21,016 --> 00:18:24,144

And my husband would even say that

God put us in the Catholic Church.

358

00:18:24,144 --> 00:18:26,230

We were born into the Catholic Church

for a reason.

359

00:18:26,230 --> 00:18:29,233

We will serve him this way.

360

00:18:29,691 --> 00:18:31,276

Couldn't argue with that.

361

00:18:31,276 --> 00:18:33,570

But then when there's

this thick book of other people

362

00:18:33,570 --> 00:18:36,573

that were born into the Catholic Church,

and as soon as they questioned it,

363

00:18:36,573 --> 00:18:39,701

they were martyred

or harassed or tormented,

364

00:18:41,036 --> 00:18:42,621

and they stood for it.

365

00:18:42,621 --> 00:18:46,708

And the Anabaptist

faith began out of that.

366

00:18:47,751 --> 00:18:49,837

It was it was just an eye opener for us.

367

00:18:49,837 --> 00:18:53,465

Like we thought we were the only ones

who didn't get it,

368

00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:57,678

that they were all moving

on, going through the liturgy

369

00:18:57,678 --> 00:19:02,057

and they all understood this, you know,

and they maybe they did.

370

00:19:02,057 --> 00:19:05,435

Maybe that was they did

get spiritual satisfaction out of that.

371

00:19:05,769 --> 00:19:07,688

But we were not.

372

00:19:07,688 --> 00:19:10,732

And we just personalize it like,

what's wrong with us?

373

00:19:11,275 --> 00:19:14,278

So it's very validating to see,

374

00:19:14,528 --> 00:19:17,823

you know, in church history

that this happened.

375

00:19:17,823 --> 00:19:21,702

And we're not quite as off as we thought.

376

00:19:23,203 --> 00:19:26,415

It was maybe a bit of a reassurance like

oh there's something here.

377

00:19:26,456 --> 00:19:28,667

Very much so. very much so.

378

00:19:28,667 --> 00:19:31,670

And there we were in Holmes

County like, you know,

379

00:19:32,004 --> 00:19:35,007

the Mecca of Anabaptists, you know,

380

00:19:35,257 --> 00:19:39,136

and it was like,

this is a solid thing, even David's

381

00:19:39,136 --> 00:19:43,432

parents could see that

this was a solid institution.

382

00:19:43,432 --> 00:19:46,185

A lot of their faith was in the church.

383

00:19:46,185 --> 00:19:48,103

So if the church said it was okay,

384

00:19:49,438 --> 00:19:51,064

you know, it was okay.

385

00:19:51,064 --> 00:19:55,152

So at least the Amish were kind

of a institution for them.

386

00:19:56,153 --> 00:19:56,737

Yeah.

387

00:19:56,737 --> 00:19:59,531

You know, it that that helped.

388

00:19:59,531 --> 00:20:00,616

There was a lot of custom,

389

00:20:00,616 --> 00:20:03,619

a lot of tradition that helped them

do that mental shift.

390

00:20:04,745 --> 00:20:07,497

But it was very reassuring,

391

00:20:07,497 --> 00:20:08,707

to us.

392

00:20:08,707 --> 00:20:13,712

And at that point, Steve and Lester

invited us to attend church.

393

00:20:14,504 --> 00:20:17,549

We asked them the difference

between Old Order and New Order

394

00:20:17,549 --> 00:20:21,470

because like I said, this new age,

you know, What is this?

395

00:20:21,470 --> 00:20:23,096

That still kind of just cracks me up.

396

00:20:23,096 --> 00:20:26,058

But it just kind of shows

just to flag it as it goes by.

397

00:20:26,058 --> 00:20:30,646

You know, like you guys are coming in

with very little context, right?

398

00:20:30,687 --> 00:20:33,899

I mean, you're on a journey and you're

searching and you have a lot of questions.

399

00:20:34,024 --> 00:20:35,400

And now of course, we can look back

400

00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,653

and then kind of chuckle and be like, oh,

that's funny that,

401

00:20:37,653 --> 00:20:40,739

you know, you kind of had that that idea

of what New Order Amish was.

402

00:20:40,739 --> 00:20:44,159

Now we all know, oh, well, that's

not what it is, but it kind of just shows

403

00:20:44,159 --> 00:20:48,288

like, yeah, there was probably an enormous

learning curve, you know.

404

00:20:48,664 --> 00:20:51,124

Yeah. That's

and that's part of this whole story.

405

00:20:51,124 --> 00:20:53,335

And, you know, as much or as little

as you want to get into that.

406

00:20:53,335 --> 00:20:56,838

But anyways, to continue

I just want to grab that as it goes by is.

407

00:20:56,838 --> 00:20:57,839

Yeah and there is, there’s

kind of a thought

408

00:20:57,839 --> 00:21:02,344

among seekers, which is kind of the name

we give to people that look,

409

00:21:02,594 --> 00:21:06,598

look to join the Amish,

or get really intensely curious.

410

00:21:07,099 --> 00:21:12,437

We call them seekers in general

and just kind of a, a trend.

411

00:21:12,604 --> 00:21:14,773

We tend to be extremists.

412

00:21:14,773 --> 00:21:19,945

So if if a seeker is gonna obey the Bible,

they're obeying every word.

413

00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,865

So they begin to view culturally

that the most conservative group

414

00:21:23,865 --> 00:21:25,033

must be the holiest.

415

00:21:26,285 --> 00:21:27,244

I have heard that.

416

00:21:27,244 --> 00:21:32,874

And and so you go in and you go, okay,

what what's what's a Swartzentruber Amish?

417

00:21:33,250 --> 00:21:35,711

Because everyone will say that

those are the most conservative.

418

00:21:35,711 --> 00:21:39,339

So I want to check those out, you know,

and the Swartzentruber amish are like...

419

00:21:39,339 --> 00:21:42,301

what what what.

420

00:21:42,843 --> 00:21:45,220

Do you really want to learn German.

421

00:21:45,220 --> 00:21:48,223

What? You know, they don't get it at all.

422

00:21:48,307 --> 00:21:52,311

But you you go in there

with this idea of older is better.

423

00:21:53,020 --> 00:21:55,897

So old order must be better

than new order.

424

00:21:55,897 --> 00:21:58,817

Swartzentruber

must be better than old order

425

00:21:58,817 --> 00:22:01,778

because they're more conservative.

426

00:22:01,778 --> 00:22:03,989

And, you know, it's a myth.

427

00:22:03,989 --> 00:22:05,699

There are Christians Swartzentrubers.

428

00:22:05,699 --> 00:22:08,160

There are Christian Catholics.

There are Christian New Order.

429

00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,121

There are Christian old order,

you know, it's

430

00:22:11,121 --> 00:22:14,333

it's it's all, you know, they're humans.

431

00:22:14,333 --> 00:22:15,876

They're people.

432

00:22:15,876 --> 00:22:20,339

So we had to kind of pull away from that.

433

00:22:20,339 --> 00:22:22,215

That mindset

434

00:22:22,215 --> 00:22:26,470

that there was some sort of holiness in,

in pumping your own water and carrying it.

435

00:22:27,804 --> 00:22:28,263

I got.

436

00:22:28,263 --> 00:22:28,972

Yeah.

437

00:22:28,972 --> 00:22:33,810

And so that probably I could

I obviously my story is not anywhere

438

00:22:33,852 --> 00:22:38,023

the same as yours,

but I can kind of imagine that happening.

439

00:22:38,023 --> 00:22:38,523

Right.

440

00:22:38,523 --> 00:22:42,819

And also that being a bit of a process

to kind of work through as well.

441

00:22:42,819 --> 00:22:43,153

Right.

442

00:22:43,153 --> 00:22:46,573

And we saw people we, you know, families

would then get referred to us.

443

00:22:46,740 --> 00:22:47,824

Oh, we you know,

444

00:22:47,824 --> 00:22:52,496

I began to write like for family life

and pathway papers and keepers at home.

445

00:22:52,746 --> 00:22:55,957

So our name got around,

you know, and so families

446

00:22:55,957 --> 00:22:59,669

would show up on our door

sometimes literally knock knock knock.

447

00:22:59,669 --> 00:23:02,464

Hey, we heard you went from Catholic

to Amish.

448

00:23:02,464 --> 00:23:02,798

Yeah.

449

00:23:02,798 --> 00:23:06,218

Come on in,

you know, so we saw a lot of people

450

00:23:06,218 --> 00:23:11,598

and that was almost universally

a situation where they would see.

451

00:23:11,848 --> 00:23:15,185

That they would think that, you know,

452

00:23:15,519 --> 00:23:18,688

the most conservative meant the most holy.

453

00:23:20,023 --> 00:23:22,234

By that point, we were fully

454

00:23:22,234 --> 00:23:25,362

members and living in a healthy

Christian environment.

455

00:23:25,362 --> 00:23:28,615

And we were like, no, it's got to be that

456

00:23:28,990 --> 00:23:31,993

your focus is on the Lord

and living for the Lord.

457

00:23:32,661 --> 00:23:36,790

And if you can do that as a Swartzentruber

Amish, go for it.

458

00:23:36,790 --> 00:23:39,418

If you can do that as a Catholic,

go for it.

459

00:23:39,418 --> 00:23:42,379

If you can do that as a Mennonite,

go for it.

460

00:23:42,379 --> 00:23:44,840

You know,

that was our message to these people.

461

00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,008

Some didn't like that.

462

00:23:47,008 --> 00:23:49,803

I can imagine though

because it's almost like well well yeah.

463

00:23:49,803 --> 00:23:54,349

But just give me the list of things

and then that this is the real thing.

464

00:23:55,559 --> 00:23:58,979

But what you were just describing,

that sounds like a lot more work,

465

00:23:58,979 --> 00:24:02,274

a lot longer of a journey,

a lot more processing through.

466

00:24:02,274 --> 00:24:04,317

Okay. What is God calling me to do?

467

00:24:04,317 --> 00:24:07,446

You know, where should I be?

468

00:24:07,446 --> 00:24:09,614

Where do I fit in? What is this?

469

00:24:09,614 --> 00:24:12,325

What is the community

I should be integrating into? Right.

470

00:24:13,702 --> 00:24:14,870

Wow. This.

471

00:24:14,870 --> 00:24:16,163

I'm again.

472

00:24:16,163 --> 00:24:21,877

I can't really imagine the shift that this

must have been for you all, doing this.

473

00:24:21,877 --> 00:24:25,130

So you, you know, go from,

it sounds like a fairly nominal,

474

00:24:25,714 --> 00:24:28,008

environment Catholic church.

475

00:24:28,008 --> 00:24:30,635

Then this whole journey

you were just describing,

476

00:24:30,635 --> 00:24:33,638

you integrate into the Amish, community.

477

00:24:33,638 --> 00:24:35,432

You become a member there.

478

00:24:35,432 --> 00:24:37,184

You're not Amish anymore.

479

00:24:37,184 --> 00:24:40,854

And, as much or as little

as you'd like to share about that part.

480

00:24:40,854 --> 00:24:42,522

The next phase of the story of.

481

00:24:42,522 --> 00:24:45,484

Okay, what brings us up to today?

482

00:24:45,484 --> 00:24:48,236

it I mean it is a longer story.

483

00:24:48,236 --> 00:24:50,947

And any time you're shifting from a church

it's hard.

484

00:24:50,947 --> 00:24:53,950

It was hard to leave the Catholic Church.

485

00:24:54,451 --> 00:24:55,660

I, it was very.

486

00:24:55,660 --> 00:24:58,371

We were born

David even had said we were born here.

487

00:24:58,371 --> 00:25:00,499

We're going to, we’ll serve God here.

488

00:25:00,499 --> 00:25:02,626

Then all at once he said to me,

489

00:25:02,626 --> 00:25:05,921

I mean, I just remember where we were

because I was so shocked.

490

00:25:05,921 --> 00:25:09,549

And he looked over and said, you know, I

don't think we can obey the Bible anymore

491

00:25:10,091 --> 00:25:11,968

and stay Catholic.

492

00:25:11,968 --> 00:25:16,640

And I was blown away because I had

laid down leaving the Catholic Church.

493

00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,643

At that point, it was just like, this is,

494

00:25:19,768 --> 00:25:23,146

you know, causing I'm upset, I'm

leaving it alone.

495

00:25:23,522 --> 00:25:26,525

And it's almost like

as soon as I handed it over to God,

496

00:25:26,733 --> 00:25:29,945

David was like, I don't think we can obey

the Bible and stay Catholic.

497

00:25:31,154 --> 00:25:31,696

Which isn't

498

00:25:31,696 --> 00:25:35,450

to say, and I don't want to say that

others, you know, can't.

499

00:25:35,450 --> 00:25:36,159

I think that's a

500

00:25:36,159 --> 00:25:40,914

yeah, that's an important little You know,

I know I know many Christian Catholics.

501

00:25:40,914 --> 00:25:41,748

Okay.

502

00:25:41,748 --> 00:25:45,085

But where he was taking us

and the journey he was pointing

503

00:25:45,085 --> 00:25:49,673

us, David,

as the leader of the family, made a shift.

504

00:25:50,674 --> 00:25:54,344

That's a, that's a I think a really

important piece to not miss is like,

505

00:25:55,011 --> 00:25:58,014

you had to be honest

with what God was telling you and say,

506

00:25:58,390 --> 00:26:01,935

this might be really uncomfortable,

but we to follow our

507

00:26:02,269 --> 00:26:05,063

what we think God wants us to do or what

we believe we're supposed to be doing,

508

00:26:05,063 --> 00:26:06,690

we're going to have to make some changes.

509

00:26:06,690 --> 00:26:07,732

That's really hard.

510

00:26:07,732 --> 00:26:10,443

And the church represents

an authority figure.

511

00:26:10,443 --> 00:26:13,905

So it's like we felt like

we were pushing against an authority figure

512

00:26:14,364 --> 00:26:18,952

because you have

you are taught in the Catholic tradition

513

00:26:19,286 --> 00:26:23,832

the same as in our our tradition

to have respect for the church

514

00:26:23,832 --> 00:26:29,045

as an institution, more

so in the Catholic setting than in ours.

515

00:26:29,421 --> 00:26:34,134

The church is I mean, you go way back

in history, it was actually a government.

516

00:26:34,634 --> 00:26:37,721

You know, if you broke a church law,

you were breaking civil law.

517

00:26:38,263 --> 00:26:38,597

Okay.

518

00:26:38,597 --> 00:26:42,225

So that,

I mean, it has a pull of authority.

519

00:26:42,851 --> 00:26:44,644

So we're kicking against authority.

520

00:26:44,644 --> 00:26:49,190

And obviously we are going against stream

with all this.

521

00:26:49,649 --> 00:26:52,152

And we weren't we were not bold people.

522

00:26:52,152 --> 00:26:55,363

So it was very uncharacteristic,

523

00:26:55,363 --> 00:26:59,242

which made us suspect

it was God like, this isn't our idea.

524

00:26:59,784 --> 00:27:02,037

Who would think of joining the Amish?

525

00:27:02,037 --> 00:27:03,580

Like, really? No.

526

00:27:04,789 --> 00:27:07,751

You know, it's not like we, like,

oh, we want to be Amish.

527

00:27:07,876 --> 00:27:09,794

We are almost like, really?

528

00:27:09,794 --> 00:27:10,712

Lord, really?

529

00:27:10,712 --> 00:27:11,755

Lord, really?

530

00:27:11,755 --> 00:27:13,423

You know,

531

00:27:13,423 --> 00:27:16,384

but the way he let the dominoes fall

532

00:27:16,384 --> 00:27:19,596

and and David's confession

at that point of

533

00:27:20,096 --> 00:27:24,726

of wanting to stick with the Bible

as his source, that was.

534

00:27:24,851 --> 00:27:26,227

Huge.

535

00:27:26,227 --> 00:27:28,647

And we began to visit the church

536

00:27:28,647 --> 00:27:31,650

that Steve and Lester went to.

537

00:27:32,233 --> 00:27:36,780

And they went on with as we showed

interest in moving into the community.

538

00:27:37,614 --> 00:27:40,617

They made all of those arrangements.

539

00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:44,621

And so again, we see God's hand

looking back,

540

00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,334

it was an ideal setup

where the Lord put us, who he put us with.

541

00:27:50,168 --> 00:27:54,047

A beautiful couple,

he was the deacon in the New Order church,

542

00:27:54,547 --> 00:27:57,676

and he really discipled us.

543

00:27:57,676 --> 00:28:01,012

He and his wife

and our houses were connected.

544

00:28:01,012 --> 00:28:03,973

Was a Daudi house.

So there was just a door between us.

545

00:28:03,973 --> 00:28:05,308

They discipled us.

546

00:28:05,308 --> 00:28:09,062

They helped us with with the doctrine,

with our hearts.

547

00:28:09,521 --> 00:28:11,481

And the rest of the church did the.

548

00:28:11,481 --> 00:28:13,358

This is we'll find you a horse.

549

00:28:13,358 --> 00:28:16,236

We'll teach you to ride a drive a buggy.

550

00:28:16,236 --> 00:28:18,530

We'll show you how to milk a goat.

551

00:28:18,530 --> 00:28:20,448

We'll show you how to sew

552

00:28:21,449 --> 00:28:21,700

a dress.

553

00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:22,492

A lot of that stuff.

554

00:28:22,492 --> 00:28:25,537

Like I said, we're already

kind of homesteaders, so that wasn't too

555

00:28:25,537 --> 00:28:28,832

terrible of a shift,

but it was just like Emen

556

00:28:28,832 --> 00:28:31,835

and Ada, just discipled our hearts.

557

00:28:32,293 --> 00:28:37,257

Lots of popcorn in their kitchen,

lots of popcorn, precious memories.

558

00:28:37,257 --> 00:28:39,300

And we lived there for five years.

559

00:28:39,300 --> 00:28:42,303

We were baptized in that setting.

560

00:28:42,637 --> 00:28:46,433

One thing that I did want to mention

that that really touched us,

561

00:28:46,433 --> 00:28:49,436

because when you talk about

all of the different churches,

562

00:28:49,602 --> 00:28:54,274

you go to a place like Holmes County,

which is similar to Lancaster County

563

00:28:54,274 --> 00:28:57,819

in that there are so many denominate,

564

00:28:57,819 --> 00:29:01,489

or not denominations,

flavors of conservative churches,

565

00:29:02,282 --> 00:29:06,077

you just have the whole spectrum

to basically choose from.

566

00:29:06,244 --> 00:29:08,663

For somebody like us

who had the freedom to pick

567

00:29:10,165 --> 00:29:13,168

when we asked Lester and Steve

568

00:29:13,460 --> 00:29:16,463

what the difference was

between the new Order and the old order,

569

00:29:16,713 --> 00:29:21,134

their answer was so loving, so Christian,

and so kind.

570

00:29:21,134 --> 00:29:23,762

It blew us away.

571

00:29:23,762 --> 00:29:25,221

It was a church split.

572

00:29:25,221 --> 00:29:26,723

It was hard.

573

00:29:26,723 --> 00:29:30,560

But they did not say, well,

the old order, thus, thus and that.

574

00:29:30,852 --> 00:29:35,523

And we wanted thus, thus

and that it was so loving that,

575

00:29:35,523 --> 00:29:40,779

that we didn't see that in any other

church group that we ever visited

576

00:29:41,362 --> 00:29:43,865

since just that,

577

00:29:43,865 --> 00:29:47,452

that real respect and love

for where they came from.

578

00:29:48,244 --> 00:29:52,373

It wasn't like, you know, we had had it

with the following customs and,

579

00:29:53,249 --> 00:29:56,503

and that it just wasn't like that,

which was very touching.

580

00:29:56,961 --> 00:29:59,923

And we found that amongst the New Order

Amish in general.

581

00:30:00,632 --> 00:30:01,591

Yeah.

582

00:30:01,591 --> 00:30:04,469

So I did

I just wanted to throw that in there.

583

00:30:04,469 --> 00:30:05,845

That's huge.

584

00:30:05,845 --> 00:30:09,140

So the next steps that happen from here.

585

00:30:09,766 --> 00:30:12,060

Bring us up to present day.

586

00:30:12,060 --> 00:30:14,562

So we moved after five years.

587

00:30:15,688 --> 00:30:16,481

Mostly for

588

00:30:16,481 --> 00:30:19,484

logistics, moved to a smaller community

in Michigan.

589

00:30:20,443 --> 00:30:22,904

Financially we,

you know, we couldn't really buy a farm

590

00:30:22,904 --> 00:30:25,907

in Holmes County,

and we were kind of small town people.

591

00:30:25,990 --> 00:30:27,617

So we moved up to Michigan.

592

00:30:27,617 --> 00:30:29,953

That's where we raised,

593

00:30:29,953 --> 00:30:31,287

the bulk of our children.

594

00:30:31,287 --> 00:30:34,666

So that was like 15,

probably about 15, 20 years.

595

00:30:35,375 --> 00:30:38,920

And so we went up to Michigan,

raised our children

596

00:30:39,379 --> 00:30:43,258

there, and then our family ran

into a family crisis.

597

00:30:43,258 --> 00:30:46,427

But at the same time,

the church ran into a church crisis,

598

00:30:47,095 --> 00:30:50,223

which one fed which, we may never know.

599

00:30:50,765 --> 00:30:52,851

But we were all in crisis.

600

00:30:52,851 --> 00:30:56,729

And the church became very weak

and I became very weak.

601

00:30:56,729 --> 00:30:59,566

I had some considerable medical.

602

00:30:59,566 --> 00:31:01,985

I was medically fragile, very ill.

603

00:31:01,985 --> 00:31:04,821

I needed a strong church, and that church

604

00:31:04,821 --> 00:31:07,782

was basically, well,

it basically collapsed.

605

00:31:08,241 --> 00:31:10,660

So I needed to find fellowship elsewhere.

606

00:31:11,870 --> 00:31:14,247

And that's where the kind of long

journey comes

607

00:31:14,247 --> 00:31:17,250

that I ended up

coming to Pennsylvania for some healing,

608

00:31:18,084 --> 00:31:21,087

and then came back and came back

609

00:31:21,170 --> 00:31:24,132

every time I came, came here.

610

00:31:24,132 --> 00:31:26,926

I went to a particular congregation

611

00:31:26,926 --> 00:31:29,929

because I had a ride, I was Amish,

I had to ride with somebody.

612

00:31:30,179 --> 00:31:32,056

So this is where my friend Linda went.

613

00:31:32,056 --> 00:31:36,311

So I went with Linda and her husband

to church that was that was my ride.

614

00:31:36,311 --> 00:31:39,939

So whenever I was in Pennsylvania,

I went to the open door

615

00:31:40,398 --> 00:31:44,027

Mennonite Church and it clicked.

616

00:31:44,652 --> 00:31:45,320

God thing.

617

00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,532

I mean, I did like I said, there's dozens

of churches even here in Pennsylvania.

618

00:31:50,199 --> 00:31:53,703

The way they handled

my difficult situation and the way

619

00:31:53,703 --> 00:31:58,458

that they nurtured me through that

and did not make demands,

620

00:31:58,708 --> 00:32:01,461

but were definitely there for me,

621

00:32:01,461 --> 00:32:04,422

was was awesome.

622

00:32:04,464 --> 00:32:06,925

And so when it got to the point

623

00:32:06,925 --> 00:32:11,304

where David was no longer

interested in a conservative setting,

624

00:32:12,388 --> 00:32:15,391

but I was

625

00:32:15,516 --> 00:32:19,270

just that's where this is where I landed,

and that's where I still am today.

626

00:32:19,270 --> 00:32:21,064

It's an outreach of Open Door,

627

00:32:21,064 --> 00:32:24,150

but it's still the same bishops,

still the same people.

628

00:32:25,234 --> 00:32:27,195

This is just quite the story.

629

00:32:27,195 --> 00:32:29,656

And that's the thing with

630

00:32:29,656 --> 00:32:32,659

as we've had different

people on the podcast tell their stories.

631

00:32:32,659 --> 00:32:36,204

It's basically

never this perfectly linear straight line.

632

00:32:36,204 --> 00:32:38,331

You know it's like we started here

and this was

633

00:32:38,331 --> 00:32:39,832

you know we needed blah blah blah.

634

00:32:39,832 --> 00:32:42,210

And we went took

these steps and boom, here it is.

635

00:32:42,210 --> 00:32:43,878

It's it's always a journey.

636

00:32:43,878 --> 00:32:45,588

It you know, it sometimes

637

00:32:45,588 --> 00:32:48,967

feels kind of meandering or okay,

we try this now then we're here and

638

00:32:49,425 --> 00:32:54,514

but it's it's part of that process of you

have questions, you're seeking answers.

639

00:32:54,514 --> 00:32:57,976

You're, trying to do what you feel

God is calling you to do.

640

00:32:57,976 --> 00:32:58,184

Right?

641

00:32:58,184 --> 00:33:01,980

And that's very much

the theme that I'm hearing from you.

642

00:33:02,522 --> 00:33:05,316

What would you say to someone who

643

00:33:05,316 --> 00:33:08,152

who would say they're on the same journey

they're trying to find?

644

00:33:08,152 --> 00:33:09,612

Where is a church I can plug into?

645

00:33:09,612 --> 00:33:12,240

I'm trying to find a community to,

to be a part of.

646

00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:13,992

And it's not working where I'm at.

647

00:33:13,992 --> 00:33:16,577

You know, I need I need that,

648

00:33:16,577 --> 00:33:18,997

whatever the case may be,

I mean, every situation is different

649

00:33:18,997 --> 00:33:21,874

and and with that

to before you jump into that,

650

00:33:21,874 --> 00:33:24,127

I want to also add,

you know, it's not like we're

651

00:33:24,127 --> 00:33:27,130

trying to encourage people, oh, leave

your church and go find some, you know.

652

00:33:27,130 --> 00:33:28,214

No, of course not.

653

00:33:28,214 --> 00:33:31,551

But there are definitely times

where people are on a journey.

654

00:33:32,010 --> 00:33:34,637

And and we want to encourage those people.

655

00:33:34,637 --> 00:33:37,432

So what would you say to that.

656

00:33:37,432 --> 00:33:38,558

It's a really good question.

657

00:33:38,558 --> 00:33:41,728

We get with the seekers that come in

658

00:33:42,103 --> 00:33:45,481

almost always they will ask

so do you recommend we do this.

659

00:33:46,607 --> 00:33:49,027

And like whoa that's big.

660

00:33:49,027 --> 00:33:51,821

We don't want to be responsible for that.

661

00:33:51,821 --> 00:33:55,450

The one answer that we gave them

is only if God told you to.

662

00:33:56,409 --> 00:34:01,080

And we found that in our marriage

to when things got tough knowing that

663

00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:05,168

God ordained this is what got you through,

God said so it's got,

664

00:34:05,752 --> 00:34:10,089

you know, we have to push forward

because God is steering this boat.

665

00:34:10,673 --> 00:34:13,926

So concentrate

on your relationship with the Lord

666

00:34:14,427 --> 00:34:17,889

and let him put you

where you're supposed to go.

667

00:34:18,931 --> 00:34:22,060

That's that's kind of the

the big thing for me.

668

00:34:22,477 --> 00:34:25,480

I see people in churches that don't have

669

00:34:25,897 --> 00:34:30,651

maybe they have some traditions or customs

that are they really question,

670

00:34:30,943 --> 00:34:34,572

but they decide they're going to stay

and build that church up stronger and make

671

00:34:34,572 --> 00:34:35,031

it better.

672

00:34:36,157 --> 00:34:39,160

And, and

I admire that, that they can do that.

673

00:34:39,285 --> 00:34:43,414

There are other people like,

you know, I've got I've got some children

674

00:34:43,414 --> 00:34:47,710

and some young people, and I don't want

to raise them in this context.

675

00:34:48,294 --> 00:34:51,297

Hey, if that's

what the Lord is putting on your heart,

676

00:34:51,464 --> 00:34:54,258

you just got to stick close to the Lord.

677

00:34:54,258 --> 00:34:56,052

Stay in the word.

678

00:34:56,052 --> 00:35:01,766

Surround yourself with healthy Christians

that that you feel are on the track.

679

00:35:01,933 --> 00:35:04,727

They're what you want to be.

680

00:35:04,727 --> 00:35:07,313

And and just keep at the word

681

00:35:07,313 --> 00:35:10,316

and keep asking questions of those people

682

00:35:10,691 --> 00:35:14,028

that you respect

that you feel are living the word.

683

00:35:15,071 --> 00:35:17,198

And let the Lord direct you.

684

00:35:17,198 --> 00:35:19,575

That's

that's the only way you can make it,

685

00:35:19,575 --> 00:35:23,746

because there's going to be bumps,

just like in marriage, you know, like,

686

00:35:24,831 --> 00:35:26,207

they do what?

687

00:35:26,207 --> 00:35:27,667

You know?

688

00:35:27,667 --> 00:35:30,670

And that's

when you need the Lord's kind of like,

689

00:35:30,670 --> 00:35:33,673

I it's like, I feel like his hand

on my shoulder going, you know,

690

00:35:33,673 --> 00:35:36,551

I told you to do this, you know, you're,

691

00:35:36,551 --> 00:35:40,847

you know, in the ditch on a main street

with the horse and buggy

692

00:35:41,556 --> 00:35:45,309

and you're in Holmes County

and you're thinking, really, Lord,

693

00:35:45,852 --> 00:35:49,313

you know, and it's like, no,

he said, you're supposed to try this.

694

00:35:49,939 --> 00:35:52,483

And that actually literally

did happen to us.

695

00:35:52,483 --> 00:35:56,612

And up behind us

comes this old gray haired Amish guy.

696

00:35:56,612 --> 00:35:59,282

And I'm thinking,

oh, he's going to want to talk Dutch.

697

00:35:59,282 --> 00:36:00,491

We can't talk Dutch.

698

00:36:00,491 --> 00:36:03,119

We're going to have to try

to explain our name to him.

699

00:36:03,119 --> 00:36:05,246

It was the bishop of our congregation,

700

00:36:06,581 --> 00:36:08,499

and he came and got us out of the ditch.

701

00:36:08,499 --> 00:36:10,960

God provides.

702

00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:12,211

Yeah.

703

00:36:12,211 --> 00:36:15,882

That's this,

this is quite the story and I just,

704

00:36:16,215 --> 00:36:19,343

I hope from what you've been sharing today

that our listeners are hearing this

705

00:36:19,343 --> 00:36:21,179

and say,

you know, I'm, I'm on a journey right now

706

00:36:21,179 --> 00:36:24,182

too and I hope

this is an encouragement to them to,

707

00:36:24,932 --> 00:36:27,643

you know, faithfulness I think is a thread

that's coming through perseverance

708

00:36:27,643 --> 00:36:27,977

this stuff.

709

00:36:27,977 --> 00:36:31,147

Didn't you know, it's not like you woke up

one day and boom, had all the answers

710

00:36:31,147 --> 00:36:31,856

and everything worked.

711

00:36:31,856 --> 00:36:32,857

And you know this.

712

00:36:32,857 --> 00:36:35,860

You know it can be years. And,

713

00:36:36,194 --> 00:36:37,945

there's something encouraging about that.

714

00:36:37,945 --> 00:36:40,781

And so as we wrap this, this episode up,

715

00:36:40,781 --> 00:36:43,784

bring all the pieces together and,

and tie the ribbons on this package.

716

00:36:43,993 --> 00:36:46,996

Is there any anything

you would like to leave with our audience?

717

00:36:47,330 --> 00:36:51,250

You know, I think what I said

about sticking with the scriptures,

718

00:36:51,292 --> 00:36:55,171

you know, that is that's the big thing,

you know,

719

00:36:55,504 --> 00:37:00,551

the whole Anabaptist movement was on,

you know, solely the scriptures.

720

00:37:00,718 --> 00:37:05,139

Let's concentrate on the Word of God

and make that our building block.

721

00:37:05,514 --> 00:37:10,394

Not society, not culture, not all of

the other things that are competing.

722

00:37:10,853 --> 00:37:13,940

But that became our measuring

stick for everything.

723

00:37:14,941 --> 00:37:16,150

And if you're staying

724

00:37:16,150 --> 00:37:19,153

in the word

and that is your measuring stick

725

00:37:19,237 --> 00:37:24,283

and and the Holy Spirit is working in you,

the Lord will direct you.

726

00:37:24,617 --> 00:37:26,369

He's it's not trick questions.

727

00:37:26,369 --> 00:37:28,704

He's not trying to trick us,

728

00:37:28,704 --> 00:37:31,582

you know, and I think that's why

the conservative people who

729

00:37:31,582 --> 00:37:35,253

who think that the most conservative

churches would be the holiest

730

00:37:35,544 --> 00:37:38,756

is because you can do that

with a checklist.

731

00:37:38,756 --> 00:37:40,466

Learn to haul water, check.

732

00:37:40,466 --> 00:37:43,344

Learn to butcher chickens. Check.

733

00:37:43,344 --> 00:37:46,305

You know, learn to use a chainsaw.

734

00:37:46,305 --> 00:37:46,722

Check.

735

00:37:46,722 --> 00:37:50,184

You know,

our carnal minds want to do that.

736

00:37:50,643 --> 00:37:52,520

It's not that easy.

Give me the to do list.

737

00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:53,729

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

738

00:37:53,729 --> 00:37:56,941

And I'll just knock that all off,

and then I'm a right good amishman.

739

00:37:57,358 --> 00:37:59,652

You know, it's so easy

or or Mennonite or whatever.

740

00:37:59,652 --> 00:38:02,780

It's very easy for us humans

to fall into that,

741

00:38:03,406 --> 00:38:06,117

and our lifestyle lends itself to that.

742

00:38:06,117 --> 00:38:11,122

It's great things in our lifestyle,

but it's the word base it on the word.

743

00:38:11,455 --> 00:38:15,960

And if the word is telling you that you're

supposed to serve God in that setting,

744

00:38:16,919 --> 00:38:18,087

he'll open the doors.

745

00:38:18,087 --> 00:38:21,090

You don't have to kick against the pricks.

746

00:38:21,924 --> 00:38:22,300

Yeah.

747

00:38:22,300 --> 00:38:26,387

I think that's a powerful

one to end on and encourage our listeners

748

00:38:26,387 --> 00:38:26,929

with that piece.

749

00:38:26,929 --> 00:38:30,308

So hopefully through your story

that they've learned some things

750

00:38:30,308 --> 00:38:33,436

and say okay

yeah I have some something to think about.

751

00:38:33,436 --> 00:38:33,811

You know.

752

00:38:33,811 --> 00:38:39,108

And I just really appreciate you you

coming on today and telling your story.

753

00:38:39,525 --> 00:38:41,110

I don't take something like that lightly.

754

00:38:41,110 --> 00:38:43,070

You know, this is

this is a process that you went through.

755

00:38:43,070 --> 00:38:45,698

And I feel like we have a lot to learn

from what you went through.

756

00:38:45,698 --> 00:38:47,908

So thank you for sharing today.

You're welcome.

757

00:38:47,908 --> 00:38:49,243

Thank you for having me.

758

00:38:50,202 --> 00:38:52,913

Thanks for listening to this episode

with Elizabeth.

759

00:38:52,913 --> 00:38:55,333

So a number of years ago,

we interviewed Samantha

760

00:38:55,333 --> 00:38:58,502

about her journey from the Catholic Church

into the Anabaptist movement.

761

00:38:58,502 --> 00:39:01,505

And you can find that linked

in the description down below.

762

00:39:01,547 --> 00:39:04,216

We also have several other podcasts

that you can follow as well,

763

00:39:04,216 --> 00:39:06,886

and you can find all of those linked below

as well.

764

00:39:06,886 --> 00:39:10,514

We're releasing an entire course

taught by Frank Reed as its own YouTube

765

00:39:10,514 --> 00:39:11,724

and podcast channel,

766

00:39:11,724 --> 00:39:15,269

and I think you'll find

that material interesting and helpful.

767

00:39:15,269 --> 00:39:16,937

And again, all of that is down below

768

00:39:16,937 --> 00:39:20,941

and on our website

at anabaptistperspectives.org

769

00:39:20,941 --> 00:39:21,650

Thanks again for

770

00:39:21,650 --> 00:39:24,487

listening,

and we'll see you in the next episode.