1, 2, 3.

Welcome to the Rap Report with your host, Andrew Rapaport, where we provide biblical interpretation and application.

This is a ministry of Striving for eternity and the Christian Podcast Community.

For more content or to request a speaker for your church, go to strivingforeternity.org welcome to another edition of the Rap Report.

I'm your host, Andrew Rappaport, the executive director of Striving Fraternity and the Christian Podcast Community of which this podcast is a proud member.

We are here to provide you with biblical interpretations and applications for the Christian life.

And I was privileged to be on to the podcast of Thoroughly Equipped with Melissa Lex, one of the podcasts at the Christian Podcast Community.

We discussed evangelism, apologetics and a whole host of different topics.

I hope that this episode will encourage you and equip you to go out and share your faith.

So coming your way on the RAP Report by way of Thoroughly Equipped with Melissa Lex, I hope you check both of us out.

Follow us online.

Check this out.

And this is so simple to get started and.

But when you have a challenge, you don't know a friend of mine, Mark Spence, he works at Living Waters and he always tells people if you get challenged with a whole bunch of questions, just study up on the last one that you got challenged with and don't have an answer to whatever that last one was.

Study it.

The Bible says about that.

You may have to dive into some science or philosophy to understand it a bit, but that's fine.

Just compare what it's what the Bible says about that topic because the best answer is scripture.

Guess what?

If we're studying Scripture all the time to get better at sharing the gospel, we're also getting better at living the Christian life because the Bible should be coming through us.

We're not studying just to argue with people.

We're studying the scripture to know our Lord and Savior better.

Because if we're Christians, we love him, we want to know him, we want to learn more about him, and that helps us in answering or giving a defense for Him.

Welcome to Thoroughly Equipped Restoring Women's ministry to the authority and sufficient efficiency of Scripture while glorifying Christ through discernment and biblical womanhood.

Andrew, thank you for coming on Thoroughly Equipped again.

I think.

What is this the.

Is this the fourth time?

Third.

Third time.

I'm not sure.

I. I've had you on more than anybody else I've had.

I can say that on here more than anybody else.

Yeah, I mean, since you know your audience like you have guests pay to be on Here she is that well known.

You come on out of the kindness of your heart, and I ask you because I feel like you're very good to speak on the topics that I like having you on about.

So today's topic is apologetics, and I just recently had Angela Mitchell from Raising Apologists, that's her ministry, had her on to talk about how homeschoolers should raise their children up in apologetics.

But I, I really thought, you know, what's missing is the foundation for like, diving deeper into why apologetics is so important, why every Christian should do it.

And so I was picking my brain on who to, to invite on to, to discuss this topic.

And of course I thought of you because you have a show, but you do this weekly and you do apologetics weekly.

Can you talk about your show a little bit?

Sure.

The show that you're referring to, because I do a couple of podcasts, as you know, but the podcast you're referring to is called Apologex Live.

And Apologetics Live is a podcast where anyone can come in and challenge me on anything.

We will have a topic, and I try to go through the topic for the first hour if I have a guest on.

But if someone comes in and I'm just going through a topic, I might cut that short.

But it's, it's something where I've had Orthodox rabbis come in.

I've had Church of Christ folks come in.

I've had, I've had a charismatic that came in.

I've had Catholics that come in all wanting to debate me.

I even had a guy who came in wanting to debate progressive Christianity or affirmative affirming Christianity.

He believes that, you know, that we would, we should be, that Christianity and homosexuality are not an issue.

That guy's really interesting because he did so poorly in his prepared comments and all that.

He, he actually challenged me to a debate.

And, and you are going to love this, Mel.

But he, he challenged me to a debate, but only a formal debate, but only if his boyfriend is the moderator, which he admitted was unreasonable to ask, but his boyfriend told him that he can't debate me unless he's the moderator, and so he's got to go with that.

So he's actually now told me he invited me to a debate, he's going to debate someone else on my view of homosexuality because he said, you know, me talking about the idea of lust.

What do we do when we do apologetics?

If.

How do you, how do you handle when you're going to do apologetics and you don't know you have a debate, right?

Best thing to do, definition of terms.

And so as he was trying to argue, he thought he could.

He demolished.

He could demolish James White in a debate because he knows James's arguments, and he could.

He could demolish them.

And all I did was I asked him, you know, is lusting a sin?

And he said, yes.

And I said, so it really doesn't matter that you lust after men and I lust after women.

We're both committing the same sin, aren't we?

And he was like.

But because he never thought of lusting, which is the core issue right at the heart of the issue of homosexuality, it is lusting for someone outside of marriage.

Yep.

Yeah.

And so he's now going to debate someone else on the issue of lust and whether that leads to homos, whether that's a sin of in the Bible, or whether, you know, just lusting is a desire.

So what's he going to do?

He's going to ignore the context of the passages we looked at, and he's going to get someone to debate him who doesn't know it.

Okay, so that's the fun of the show, because I. I'm weird.

I admit it.

I enjoy when someone comes in with a challenge for me that I'm not ready for or familiar with, because it just.

I learned something new.

This is some of my upbringing, you know, you know, Melbatos, you know, my.

My upbringing.

But I'm raised Jewish.

One of the things Jewish people do a lot around a dinner table is to debate.

You're trained to debate because it helps sharpen your thinking.

That's why if any of you in the audience are wondering, why are so many Jewish people lawyers?

It's the only career you get paid to debate.

Okay, so there you go.

So you learning how to argue, even a position you don't hold to, helps strengthen your own arguments.

And so when I get people come on the show for Apologetics Live, I enjoy that because it's like, okay, I'm going to be challenged sometimes with something that I'm not ready for.

And I.

And.

And what we can get into later in the show of how do I prepare for a debate I'm not ready for?

Because that is part of what Apologetics is.

There's some things.

When there's some things you can't.

But, yeah, so that's Apologetics Live.

People can join Thursday nights, 8 to 10 Eastern time, and they just go to apologexlive.com and you scroll down to where the duck icon Is.

And you can join there.

People.

People want to watch.

If people watch on YouTube, they can join in on the comments.

Facebook.

I forget which, like Facebook page or, or my personal page.

Which one?

They allow comments.

They only allow them from those.

But if you follow me on X, you can comment there.

So, yeah, that's.

It's a lot of fun.

I've actually been on your show.

Right.

A couple times, just calling in because you'll, you'll not just have.

It's not just you debating somebody else or applying apologetics to anybody who calls in.

It's.

Sometimes you'll have guests on the show and so, yeah, you have really good discussions.

I like watching it too.

Yeah, it can get long, but I like watching it because you're right.

There's some people that come on there.

You're just like, whoa.

And then it's fun, you know, you, us, little computer typing behind the scenes in the comments below.

Always trying to like, boost you up.

I don't know if you see those.

Not always.

But I mean, one of the things is that I, I will admit when, when I, when I look at it and I, I like.

Okay, I, I try to look at the chat as best I can.

I will admit that.

But it's hard.

Yeah.

I don't.

I would get so distracted.

I have one of my co hosts on.

It's really hard.

And the reason it's so hard is because I can't like, talk to the person challenging me or my guest.

And like, my guest is speaking, then I can.

It's a little bit easier to, to do because my guest can, you know, can talk while I'm looking at comments.

But then I'm not really.

I'm.

I have to listen to him.

So it does make it hard.

But when my.

So there.

They usually will star comments and I just go look at those and it's like, oh, okay, this is ones to respond to.

Yeah, I just, I like the community because we will chat while you're debating.

But then it's fun anyway because, you.

Know, when that show.

The chat can.

Look, we've had people come in and they're challenging me in chat.

Yeah.

And the chat is the one where they're.

They're going all, you know, dealing with things and, and engaging with the person.

I'm like, okay, you know, they're doing it and, and sometimes we pull them in.

I've, you know, because of that, we've actually had.

We had someone who had come in.

They were, they were just going off on the chat and Everyone was trying to correct this guy, lead him to Christ, and ended up that.

I, you know, I. I just saw it going.

I said, why don't you just come on in?

You know, why don't you join us?

This guy was Catholic, and he wanted to argue that Mary was the Ark of the Covenant.

And so he came in.

That's interesting.

Yeah.

And we were like, okay.

You know, it was a good discussion.

Best part of the discussion, I think at one point I'm, like, listening to this guy and going like, I. I literally.

I'm like, I said, what do you do with the current Pope?

I mean, you know, believing what you believe probably wouldn't even argue that the Pope is Catholic.

And he goes, he's not.

Yeah.

I went, oh, you're one of those.

Yeah.

And I can't pronounce it.

Well, cervanticantists that believe that the current Pope, like, since Pope, I think it was John Paul ii, they.

They believe the Catholic Church is not Catholic.

Oh, okay.

And so then we had a very interesting different conversation.

Yeah, that's.

It can go all sorts of way.

That's crazy.

But okay.

So knowing now that you have.

You have a very good background, how long have you been doing apologetics for?

I mean, and debating.

Right.

Well, how long have I been doing it for?

Since I started sharing the Gospel.

Right.

Which was like, two years after I was saved.

So I. I would have started doing apologetics in 19.

I'm gonna.

I'm gonna date myself.

1986.

Were you even born?

I was six years old.

That gives away my.

My age.

All right, but you're only 25, and so.

No, that's fine.

Yeah.

But, yeah, that's a thing where, you know, when you look at it, it's really.

It's.

It's really something that.

As we examine the apologetics, I tie it to evangelism, because that is when it.

It starts.

Right.

That's part of evangelism.

That's what I.

That's why I think I wanted to have you on more than, like, anybody I could else think of, because I think some people think that apologetics is just simply about making arguments, like having, you know, arguments for creation versus evolution, having to know scientific ideas and philosophies and then counteract that with biblical.

And so here's where my first question, like, what is apologetics?

I think a lot of people do know, but you could explain to maybe somebody who's kind of new you and hasn't really thought about this, and then, what are the types of Apologetics, like the certain philosophies of apologetics that we see in, in Christianity especially.

Yeah.

So there's several different views we can have when it comes to apologetics.

And so when we speak of apologetics, it, it's simply defending the faith.

Okay.

It is not making an apology for it.

This is a problem we don't understand between, you know, it's, it's sourced from Latin, apologia is Greek.

But it is to make a defense for something.

It's not an apology the way we often think of it.

So let's, let's address that.

But when we do look at this, there are several different ways of doing apologetics.

And you're right, there are, there's a lot of people who get intimidated by it.

Do I have to understand, you know, how, how carbon 14 works?

And how long can carbon 14 work on something that's organic would work on something that's not organic?

I, I can't remember all that.

Now you got argon on in there.

And what, and how do we test for that?

And someone's going to throw this out to me.

I just don't know what to do.

What you need to do to do good apologetics is know your Bible, right?

That's it.

The more you study the Bible, the more you can handle anything in apologetics, because no matter what they throw at you, they're going to be challenging your world view.

And what they want you to do is throw out your Bible and then let's talk.

And when they do that, I've had people ask me that, well, stop, throw out your Bible, and then, then we can have a conversation.

And my response is, you know, like, I had this with a guy that wanted to talk evolution, and I said, okay, as long as you promise to throw out anything that's related to biology and then we can discuss evolution.

Because if you want me to throw out truth when talking about truth, then you have to throw out biology when talking about biology.

And then they get into, well, the Bible's not true.

Now I'm in my house right now, I've just left that whole argument and I'm gonna, we're gonna end up talking textual criticism.

And now if you don't know textual criticism, it's not hard, I get it.

But if you, I'll just say, if you get my book, and I'm not doing it for self promotion, but if you get my book, what do we believe?

You can get it@restrivingforattorney.org but if you get the book what do we believe?

That book has a whole chapter that's very easy to understand.

On the topic of textual criticism, can you trust the Bible?

Because that's what they're really challenging.

If you know that, then you're golden because they sit there and what I've done this with people where I go through all the issues of textual criticism, how we could trust the Bible, whether we look at, you know, the way that we look at manuscripts and, and then I just go, okay, so you've done that same research, right?

And they go, I've never read the Bible.

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to talk science.

So you want to make scientific conclusions about a book you've never read.

That's not very scientific of you, right?

You do look at the material, and you haven't looked at the material, but you, yet you claim that it's got errors.

Now, if you run into someone that says, well, I was a Christian, I'll give you a way out of that one.

And I will give you a way out that you can always bring any conversation back to the Bible.

Yeah, you should.

I think you should.

But ask questions we don't know.

But here's the thing.

If you're, you're being challenged, right?

You're, you're, you're, we use the, the apologetics is an, a means to an end.

The end is the gospel.

We use apologetics to get to the gospel.

So when, when they're challenging and they're, they're, they're asking things, we want to get it to the gospel.

That's the goal.

That's should always be the goal, right?

It's not to show how smart we are with knowledge of science and things like that and how we can show that.

This guy that's claiming for science, oh, he's wrong.

Yeah, right.

There are some who seem to do that.

Seem to do that.

And we're going to talk about as your, your question with different apologetic methods, because one of the methods leans more toward doing that.

Two of the methods, maybe.

And so the, the thing that we see is when we're being challenged with something like, well, the Bible has, has been edited and it's been changed, and you start to challenge that.

And someone, you know, because when someone says, oh, the Bible's been changed, I say, can you show me example?

Right?

And they usually go, well, I've never read the Bible, but sometimes you're going to run into someone that claims, well, I'm a Christian.

Oh, oh, so you believed when you were a Christian And I'm going to dispute that, but let's go with it.

You claim you were a Christian and that gives you the authority on Christianity.

So when you were a Christian, you believe the Bible was your ultimate authority for faith and practice.

And they always say, yes, always.

And I just open up to First John, chapter two, verse 19.

That is my go to verse with, with anyone that claims I used to be a Christian because that verse says they went out from among us because they were never of us.

They went out of us to expose they were not of us.

So you believed what this verse says, that you were never one of us.

Right.

And they go, oh no, I was.

Then the Bible wasn't your ultimate authority, which you said it was.

So either, you know, and they'll say, oh, well, you're, you're using a no true Scotsman fallacy, saying that I wasn't truly a Christian, because no, the Bible's saying that the Bible says that the thing you said was your ultimate authority as a Christian.

If you went out from among us, you were never of us.

And you went out to expose that the Bible, your ultimate authority, says you were never of us.

You were a hypocrite that stopped pretending.

Yeah, which I mean, it, I think where.

This is where people get mixed up.

I know it was kind of my issue for a long while just because I think I did fall more.

I was a Christian who thought, oh, I need to know all this scientific stuff.

But I didn't realize.

No, I did realize I had this excuse.

The excuse was, well, the Bible is not authoritative for everybody.

It's only authoritative for those people who believe it.

And so I can't use that as a tool to bring people into understanding truth and logic in God and then talking theology and philosophy and all that stuff.

So it wasn't a tool until I started to just really study the Bible.

And I had to be confronted myself with, do I actually believe everything that is said here?

You know, if it's, if it is enough to equip me, then it's going to be enough to equip me to argue for or have an apology for the reason for the hope that I have.

And that's where I think you were getting to that.

It's that it's all about bringing the people to the gospel, which is the reason for the hope that we have.

That's the gospel.

And I realized I'm, I can't bring somebody to the gospel with scientific facts.

It's just, and the Bible is plainly clear on why you can't do that because it's God and it's the Holy Spirit that has to change lives.

So.

Yeah, but that kind of distracted me from gonna ask you.

Yes.

Okay.

So.

So talking about the different types philosophies or ways you go about Apollo presenting apologetics or whatever.

So you could talk about that a little bit.

Like what we're getting to, I think is more your presuppositional is what I'm.

Yes.

Well, and there's, there, there's actually I'm, I'm leaning more towards on new that I'll get to.

And it was new to me until I did a roundtable discussion.

And then on Apologetics Live, I had each of those people on to have a longer discussion on the, on the four different views.

Yes, I watched some of those.

They were very good.

So people need to go back.

I'll put a link for those episodes in the description because they were good.

It was good because I asked, I asked each one.

Okay, give me a strength.

And the weaknesses of, of your arguments as well.

And so let me, let me just capitalize on what you said with scripture, which is how we do apologize with scripture.

Right.

So you mentioned that you the Bible was only for the believers.

Well, Romans, chapter one for context, as we're discussing the gospel, let's give the context.

Romans 1:16.

I'm going to start there, even though what I want to focus on is further down.

It's verse 20.

But Romans 1:16.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel.

For it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

For it is for in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith as it is written.

But the righteous will live by faith.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all, not some, all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

Because that which is known about God is evident within them.

God made it evident to them.

For since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes, both his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen being understood through what has been made to.

So that they are without excuse.

So this is the thing to someone who says, well, I don't know if I could do apologetics.

That verse tells you that every person you speak to knows God exists.

What do they do?

They suppress that in unrighteousness.

So when they challenge me, I read that verse and I say, God who knows everything, I'll ask them, so you're sure.

Sometimes up front, I said, do you know everything?

I mean, have you ever been wrong?

Yeah.

Okay, well, and then I read this and I say, well, the God who cannot be wrong because he knows everything says that you are suppressing the truth in unrighteousness.

So when you disagree, that's what you're doing.

And we know why, if we keep reading, because you love your sin and you don't want to be accountable to God, but he's made it so that you know that you're guilty before holy God.

That's why you feel guilt when you break God's law.

Right.

This is a thing we have to realize.

Every person we speak to knows God exists.

Okay.

Now this is going to be a very different way of handling apologetics than as we're going to talk about now, the, the differences.

So let's start with what's called evidential apologetics.

And this is the one that many people think of when they talk about apologetics.

It's knowing all the, the science and the facts and being able to argue carbon dating and things like this.

And I.

Okay, what do you do with all the different missing links?

Well, the reality is they're still missing.

And so they're.

Most of the missing links are just drawings that people have in textbooks.

Okay.

And so the thought that many of us have is we got to learn all these facts and know them.

And someone's going to challenge me with something I don't know.

That's what people think of when they, when they think apologetics.

And it's the evidential apologetics.

Evidential apologetics is me presenting evidence outside of scripture.

Sometimes, sometimes it's using scripture, but it is, it can be looking at evidence.

If you think of a William Lane Craig who will argue that he can, he can convince you that God exists without using the Bible.

Right.

But what God are you convincing them of?

Because what we just read out of Romans 1, it's the gospel that's the power of salvation.

And the.

In.

In Peter says that, well, we know the gospel from the scripture.

Right.

You can't know the gospel outside of Scripture.

So if you're going to try to convince someone that God exists without using Scripture, all you did is take an.

A professing atheist to a theist.

But that hasn't gotten them to being Christian.

Right?

That's the difference.

And you can, you can use the evidence in, in an evidential apologetic.

The, the idea of it is that the evidence is convincing enough to be able to show someone that God exists.

And you May not even need to use a Bible.

Okay.

Not all evidentialists will argue like William Lane Craig, but William Lane Craig will say that he's more of a different.

He actually argues a different type of apologetic which is.

We'll look at next.

It's called classical.

But the, the evidential apologetic is to use the evidence of science, of history, of archaeology, whatever it takes to break down the stronghold that someone holds to that's keeping them from believing the Bible.

Okay.

Now I think this is my some that holds this may critique it.

My view of that what ends up happening is I look at that and say, well, the thinking is that everyone wants to believe in Jesus.

They're.

They're waiting to have enough information and it's an informational issue.

Now you and I are both more holding to the sovereignty of God in salvation and, and there's.

Therefore we don't believe men save themselves just with head knowledge and, but a lot of people who, who believe that people need to just make a belief and then regeneration comes after their belief.

Those people are going to lean more toward something like this where they're, they're trying to convince them.

You're convincing people into the kingdom.

That's evidential.

What William Lane Craig actually really argues for, his background is philosophy is more of a classical apologetics.

And classical apologetics is what RC Sproul used to believe.

He now believes in, in what I hold to.

So I knew you'd go there.

Those who don't know who R.C.

sproul is.

Okay, maybe you should if you've been listening to this podcast.

But, but yeah, he's.

He was, he was.

He's passed away and so now his theology is perfected.

He's a Baptist today.

He used to be Presbyterian on Earth.

It's a joke for you Presbyterians.

And that's not else with apologetics is the use of humor.

By the way, it really does help.

The idea of classical is instead of looking and arguing from the evidences, the science, things like that, you're arguing from a philosophical case.

So you're using maybe things like a cosmological argument and these different things to look at philosophy.

And you're getting into an argument of philosophically.

Well, there's, there's got to be someone who created everything philosophically.

There had to be something that's eternal.

And that's true.

Right.

These arguments are not bad and they can encourage the Christian to know that we have a good standing when we stand on, on Scripture.

But again it's, it leans toward this idea that I can convince, convince someone into the kingdom.

And my issue is I don't think they have an evidence problem.

I think they have a spiritual problem.

So yeah, on those first two, one, you have to memorize lots of evidences.

On the second one, you have to know a lot of philosophy or at least understand logic to recognize logical fallacies.

Like when the person says, well, I used to be a Christian and so I know the Bible.

That is a logical fallacy.

It's a fallacy of authority.

They're claiming that because they were a child growing up in a Christian home, learning the Bible as a child, that they know everything about the Bible that they walked away in their teenage years.

Now just think about that, folks.

How many things do you really know solidly that you learned in your, you know, pre teenage years that you, you would know so well of people who've studied it for decades, right?

Yeah, I grew Jewish.

I was in Hebrew school for, you know, a decade and, or more.

But for, for like a decade I was in Hebrew school learning Hebrew, learning things about the Bible, learning things about, you know, the Talmud through, through, you know, to prepare for bar mitzvah.

And I would not argue that I learned that I really knew the Jewish religion when I was bar mitzvahed at 13.

I wouldn't even argue when I converted to Christianity that I, I know it as well as I do now because afterwards I studied the Talmud and read through things and dialogue with.

So I would not argue.

I'm an expert on something from my elementary years.

Yeah, I would also say here that I think there's a difference between, you know, somebody's taking on that logical position, saying that just because they grew up with it and they know it or, you know, have, have been taught it in their church, doesn't mean that they believe or trusted in what they were taught.

Knowledge does not necessarily translate to automatically faith and belief.

So there's a, that is a difference that I see.

And that's what Romans 1 teaches.

And 1st John 2:19 teaches that they're not.

So, so when you look at that, it's, we can rest on the Scripture, which, which leads to the third position.

The third position is presuppositionalism.

That's the one that you heard me referring to and you were saying, okay, that's what I hold to.

I'll get to the fourth one, which you already know because you listen to the, to the episodes we did.

But presuppositionalism is the understanding that from Romans 1 they know God exists.

Okay.

When we Talk about pre.

Presuppositions.

A presupposition or an axiom.

If you think of an axiom, it's something, you can't prove it, it proves itself.

It is the thing.

So can you prove God?

And this is the issue when I do apologize, am I trying to prove God exists or is he an axiom?

Presuppositionalism is the fact that God is an axiom, Okay, A presupposition.

You can't make sense of the world without God first existing.

Right.

And so I could.

Now you could look at that.

And so what do I rely on?

I rely on Scripture.

And so I will say, thus says the Lord, you can be wrong, but God can't be.

And they'll say, well where, where does it say you know that you only know that God can't be wrong because of the Bible.

And so that's circular reasoning.

Well yes and no.

The Bible tells us God cannot lie.

But the Bible is a self revelation of God.

See, you have to start with a God because otherwise you can't explain anything.

You, the whole universe is just ridiculous.

Because how did the universe come about you?

There's only three possibilities.

The universe always existed.

Well, Einstein proved that's not true.

The universe, it created itself.

Well that philosophically breaks the second law of logic, which is the law of non contradiction.

You can't have a and not a at the same time.

In the same way the universe can have ex, you know, existed and create itself.

It's illogical.

Now what did I, I just went evidential and I just went philosophical on both those.

Right?

But the starting point is you have to have a universal absolute source for logic, truth, knowledge.

Because what is truth?

It's not a material thing.

I can't pour you a cup of truth.

It's something that is immaterial.

And so it has to have an immaterial source.

But it's also universal.

It applies to everyone, everywhere.

It's also absolute.

So he needs an immaterial, absolute, universal source.

And that is God.

And we know that.

So now when we come to, to God, we can't know God unless he reveals himself to us.

We can't understand him.

Even, even now when I teach my class on theology, the very I start with the attributes God.

And the first attribute is that God is incomprehensible.

We cannot comprehend everything about God, we never will.

And so it's only when he reveals himself to us, we can understand.

What does he reveal?

Well, that he can't lie.

So they're going to Argue.

Well, that's, you know, that's a circular argument.

Well, you could try to argue that.

Except what's your argument?

Nothing.

Right.

Because.

Right.

Can't explain anything.

Because for your worldview to be true, you need to stop using your ability to reason, truth, knowledge, laws of logic, morality.

Cut all that out, have a conversation.

Because when you cut all that out, I can argue blue cow's moon cheese.

And that should make sense.

Yeah, right.

Because logic doesn't matter.

Words shouldn't matter.

It's just, it just is.

Yeah, right.

It's just chemical reactions.

And so where I lean now is I'm leaning more toward what's called the cumulative apologetic, because it, even though I always said I'm presuppositional and that's where my focus is, cumulative is basically using the best of all three of those.

You never give up Scripture.

Right.

So I have, I have two presuppositions.

God exists, he has spoken.

I don't goes up.

So I'm not going to give up who that God exists to argue for God's existence.

And I'm not going to give up his Word as if it's not true.

I'm just going to quote Scripture.

And when someone says, well, I don't believe that, too bad.

God said.

Yeah, God said.

God said.

Your arguments with God, not with me.

When, when they want to make.

Well, you don't understand science.

God understands science and he says you're wrong.

Right.

Because he said he created in seven days.

So he who is there, by the way, that's the scientific method.

You have to create a situation, observe the situation, document the situation, you know, in, in the test.

Well, only one being was there in the beginning of creation.

So he stood up, he observed it, and he documented it in the Bible.

So we're arguing for a scientific method.

You don't have that.

You can't, you, you cannot apply scientific method to the creation of universe because you weren't there.

But God was.

Right.

I never thought of it that way, but that's actually very good synopsis of it.

I like their arguments on the.

And so cumulative, though allows for me to argue, for example, where, how, how did the universe come into being?

Right.

I, I'm using a little bit of evidence, a little bit of, you know, philosophy, but a whole lot of presupposition because I'm starting with the fact that you already know God exists, you already know he has spoken.

You're suppressing that truth and unrighteousness.

And I'm just going to step into your worldview to show how ridiculous it is.

And then we're going to come back to the Bible.

Yeah, it's like answering a fall according to his folly.

That's basically what you're doing.

Yes.

And the very next verse says, don't answer a fool according to his follies.

Console those two.

Right.

How do we reconcile that?

Well, we take the, the professing atheist worldview, and that's the.

If you, if you're staying with me.

You know why I say a professing atheist?

Because Romans 1 says they all know God exists.

They're suppressing unrighteousness.

So they profess to be an atheist.

They're actually an atheist.

And if they disagree with that, then just ask them if they have all knowledge of all things, because if they don't, then they can't know they're not an atheist because there could be something they don't know about, like God.

And so.

But what, what we end up doing when we're, you know, I'm gonna start with the fact God exists.

He has spoken.

We're not gonna jump in to ignoring that.

But I can step into their worldview to show how ridiculous it is.

Right.

It doesn't fit logically.

That's philosophical.

It doesn't fit with the, with the science.

That's the second law of thermodynamics, that all matter had a beginning and the universe is matter.

Okay.

So right there, I can use those two.

And that's sort of what we end up seeing when we argue for, for accumulative is you're, you, you're not giving up your presuppositions, but you're still using evidence and philosophy where it fits in without giving up the presuppositions that the Bible is the authority.

Because they, that's what they want you to give up.

Because they can't argue Scripture.

Yeah, right.

I told you.

I'm going to give you a trick, okay.

For, for those in the audience.

You're going, you know, Andrew, you're, you're given a lot of things I haven't learned.

Well, first off, let me tell you this to help you feel better.

When I started apologetics, I didn't know these things either, really.

When I started evangelizing, I should say.

And as I was challenged when I was evangelizing, okay.

That's something that would be challenged with son.

I don't know.

I'd go study it, learn more about it.

What they're saying, how does that fit with scripture?

And then what does Scripture say?

About that topic.

Okay, so you're arguing that there was evolution, but what does the scripture say about evolution?

Man was created in six 24 hour day.

Well, sorry, creation was made in six 24 hour days.

Okay.

And if folks want to debate me on that, hey, apologexlive.com Thursday night, come on in, I'd be happy to discuss it with you.

So what you see though is I'm going to go back to scripture and say, well, evolution over millions of years can't be right because God has said, let's see what I did there.

Now I can talk about the science.

I can show how carbon 14 dating doesn't work in these different dating mechanisms.

I could show how, you know, the fact that we have too little salt in our, in our oceans for the, for the Earth to be millions of years old.

We have a moon that's full far too close to us to, to have to, to.

For the Earth to be millions of years old.

I, I can argue the fact that Jupiter is as hot as it is, as far as it is.

It doesn't work with billions of years.

Right.

I can argue all of those things.

And if you don't know how to argue those things, that's okay because those are arguments people make to try to say, oh, it's got to be millions of years.

And I can just go, yeah, but God has said.

But God has said.

And so you may get into a situation where you just don't know how to answer.

I, I was in this situation.

I like to give examples that make me look foolish, but it's true, I do foolish things.

So I'm on the boardwalk in, at the Jersey boardwalk.

You, you may know that place as a fellow Jersey.

Well, you're a Jersey girl, I'm a Jersey guy.

So as a fellow New Jerseyan.

And so what happened was I'm sitting there evangelizing and my bride would come out.

She doesn't actually want to evangelize or talk to people.

She just sits there and runs the video camera and that's what she prefers doing.

But what she'll do is just hand out tracks.

And, and that time I wasn't doing open air yet, but she, she had the camera ready for when I did open air.

And she gets this guy that's just really loud and bolsterous.

And my, my bride, you know, I'm seeing her and like, I, I better go save her.

And, and my, my bride, being my bride, just goes, this is my husband Andrew, and walks away from the conversation.

This guy was so loud that we ended up having about 200 people that just stopped to listen to this conversation.

And he had a good voice and we weren't amplifying.

And he got.

He went off for a while where he was trying to argue that the original religion was the pain, the.

The pagan Celtic religions, and they were the origin.

And for 20 minutes he's going off describing this, this belief that he has.

And the whole time I'm like, what am I gonna do?

Like, how do I get this back to the gospel?

Like, I had no idea.

He's mentioning things I've never heard before.

I had no idea what he was saying.

I had shared with him the gospel about the fact that we've broken God's law, that we're sinners and criminals in his sight, that we're accountable to him, and that accountability is an eternity in a lake of fire.

And we can't save ourselves because we're guilty.

So we need someone who's innocent to pay it for us.

And that person has to be eternal so that he could pay only for me, but for you and for everyone else, and pay it for eternity.

And so we need Christ.

So I explained that.

So this guy is going off.

I'm like, I don't know what to do.

So I just looked at him, and when he.

When he stopped for a breath of air, I finally said, dude, how is this going to save you on Judgment Day?

To me and said, I don't know.

And then afterwards I just said, are you just making this up as you go along?

He goes, yeah, yeah, I pretty much.

Which was just.

The whole crowd cracked up laughing after that, you know, but, but that has been my go to.

Whenever they go to anything.

I've had people that start arguing about evolution and they're arguing and arguing and making all these claims I've never heard before.

And I go, great.

How's that going to help you on Judgment Day?

You're accountable for an infinitely holy God who's going to judge you.

How's all that going to help you on Judgment Day when you face God?

And now we're always getting back to arguing what the Bible says.

You know, God exists.

You're suppressing that in unrighteousness.

I, I'm going to go right back to the Bible there.

I don't.

So if any of you are nervous, that's the way out of, of all arguments is just go right back to Scripture and you can say, how's that going to help you on Judgment Day?

Because they want to say God doesn't exist.

So they're not accountable to him.

They just can't explain that guilty feeling.

And the way many people deal with that guilt is drugs, alcohol, work, sex, things they throw themselves into to try to deaden the guilty conscience.

Yeah.

So they already know this, that God exists.

I don't need to prove it.

And, and this is so simple to get started and, but when you have a challenge, you don't know.

A friend of mine, Mark Spence, he works at Living Waters and he always tells people, if you get challenged with a whole bunch of questions, just study up on the last one that you got challenged with and don't have an answer to whatever that last one was.

Study it.

The Bible says about that you may have to dive into some science or philosophy to understand it a bit, but that's fine.

Just compare what it's what the Bible says about that topic because the best answer is Scripture.

Guess what?

If we're studying scripture all the time to get better at sharing the gospel, we're also getting better at living the Christian life because the Bible should be coming through us.

We're not studying just to argue with people.

We're studying the scripture to know our Lord and Savior better.

Because if we're Christians, we love him, we want to know him, we want to learn more about him, and that helps us in answering or giving a defense or for him.

Yeah.

Amen to that.

And so yeah, I just think that for me, presuppositional.

But I like that idea that the, would you call it again, it's the.

It'S called the cumulative approach to really been practicing that all my Christian life without realizing it.

But it's saying I'm presuppositional because it, it, you know, my base is presuppositional.

But I do use some of the others.

And I don't think.

Yeah.

And I, I, to me, I start to think about.

Well, okay, those evidential and philosophy philosophical type of arguments are meant, are derived from nature, from what we see in the world.

And honestly that's just the natural and the philosophical are supposed to give glory to God and only heighten and place our trust in his revealed Word.

I think.

Right.

So I think if we use evidential and philosophical arguments that the purpose of using those is to go back to what the Word of God says and then ultimately, like you said, to evangelize and share, share the gospel, bringing it back to, to Christ.

And.

Right.

Because in all of it, the verse is that we are to present a reason for our hope and the Hope hat is there because we have a problem.

We have judgment day.

We're gonna all be held accountable for our sin against the holy God.

And we are doomed if we don't have a sacrifice.

We don't have Jesus Christ.

So if people just.

I think.

So here's where maybe like since you started out in a.

It sounds to me like you start out in evangelizing, it you learned that in evangelizing you come across people with objections and arguments for whatever reason not to believe in Christ or argue against Christianity that you had to develop over practice and time.

So talk about, if we haven't already touched upon some things about the important why apologetics really just needs to go towards evangelism.

And then I want to ask you, like, I think women like your wife is a good example.

I feel like I too, I'm not one of these people who wants to debate and I'm not going to be presented to, you know, I'm not going to be out there in the streets proclaiming evangelizing like other evangelists do.

But women should still make use of apologetics, go into maybe why.

So is my first question was evangelizing and apologetics, how those are intertwined and then why women should practice those things as well?

Well, we should evangelize because God commands it.

I mean, it's, it's that simple, right?

I mean, the fact is that we came to Christ because somebody told us the gospel.

Now some, it may have been a paper gospel, right?

Someone left a tract.

It could be someone gave you a Bible and you read it, right?

Because there are people who just, they get saved because they, they have a Bible.

And so what, however it is, it's, it's somebody is, is preaching.

I mean, this is What Romans chapter 10 says, right?

Is that you have, you have the fact that God sends people out to evangelize and that is, is what you end up seeing.

So we need to be about that business.

Now when we do that, the, the, the point that we have to realize is we're going to be challenged with questions we don't have the answers to.

Problem.

But instead of going, oh no, what do I do about that?

And freaking out, we don't do that.

Okay.

And there is a thing for women.

Let me just be clear.

I, I don't like, not everyone has to be out on the street like I do.

That's not required.

But I will say this is.

We all have to be sharing the gospel with whatever, wherever realm we.

We're in.

I would not encourage women to Be on the street sharing the gospel with men.

I just don't.

I don't think it's wise.

Yep.

Especially these days because, I mean, the, the left has lost their minds and makes you island.

And you just don't want to put yourself in the position where you don't know what they're going to do.

Right.

But if you're talking to another woman, you know, there's a thing about.

If you're going to be out on the street, have some numbers.

Don't, don't go alone.

I, I remember I. I used to have.

There's a woman who used to work for us at the ministry of striving fraternity, and we go out evangelizing as a group.

And I remember once we were in California and I saw her evangelizing this very large man who got very close to her.

And I walked over to her and just stood next to her.

I didn't say a thing.

Just stood there and the guy backed up.

Now, here was the irony.

I turned her afterwards and she, she's like, she goes, thanks for coming over.

And I looked at her, I said, you do realize if the guy got violent, I was letting you take him.

Right?

Because she's got a third degree black belt in jiu jitsu, okay.

Easily.

Even though I was like twice her weight.

Okay.

And so I knew she was my bodyguard, right.

If I ever had trouble, I would be like, hey, Melissa.

And she's gonna go beat someone up.

Right?

But what happened there?

Just having a second person.

The guy backed off.

There's people who think, because if you're a woman, they can be intimidated.

What they'll do is purposely get close to you as a woman and, and try to intimidate you.

And the purpose of that is so they can avoid their accountability to God.

They want to.

They want to.

Dead in their conscience.

Romans, chapter one.

They want to.

They want to suppress that truth and unrighteousness.

And they don't want you reminding them that they're doing that.

So they'll use different things to try to shut you up or make you feel like you don't have answers.

And why they do that is so that they can walk away going, see, I have answers and they don't.

When the reality is they don't have answers.

They've just never really had to think about it.

And this is why, when I teach evangelism, one of the things I teach is the use of humor and being polite, and it disarms the person you're talking to.

But I also teach to disarm our own defenses by asking good questions.

Because when you ask a question, you can flip the conversation to be on that person.

So I had a guy who.

When I've been doing open air in New York City and Union Square for decades, for two decades, and as I was doing that, we had a guy that I got to know my regular hecklers, this guy became a regular heckler.

His name's Jason Cross, and he's challenging me there.

There is no God because there's evil in the world.

There is no God because there's evil in the world.

And what if I'm going to appeal to an evidential apologetic or a philosophical apologetic, I'm going to explain how.

What evil is and how it's in the world.

And I didn't do any of that.

I just said, how can there be evil without God?

Well, see, he never actually had to chant to.

To give us support for his argument.

This is an argument I would see him use with every new open air vandalist that came to Union Square.

He would challenge him with this, and they'd get into explaining evil and all that.

I just said, how do you have evil without God?

He's like, well, what's evil?

I said, I didn't say it existed.

You did.

Yeah, of evil without God.

He's like, aha, you got to tell me what evil is.

I said, okay.

Evil is the absence of good.

Good is defined by the nature of God.

How can you have evil without God?

What did I do?

I rooted it right back to the nature of God.

God exists.

Right.

He can't explain evil without God.

He throws his hands up and walked out of the crowd.

One of the few times I've ever seen him do that.

And so.

And he's.

He's was heckling me for 13 to 15 years.

So he's got experience.

Echoing and so the thing is, what got him.

I just asked the.

I put the burden of proof on him to defend what he was claiming.

And we can do that.

So.

So there's a lot of different ways women can evangelize.

And when you're evangelizing, because that's what we do.

Yes.

You're doing apologetics because people have questions.

They're not all argumentative questions.

They're not all being, you know, wanting to be that angry person in your face.

Some of them have legitimate questions they just want answers to.

Yeah.

And so we want to answer those, and we want to do it in a respectful way.

And so what I encourage people to do is, you know, Just be respectful to the person you're talking to, but you don't have to have all the answers.

And I, I remember a time when, and this is a thing, if you listen to Apologetics Live, I start the show every week.

I can answer absolutely every single question that you have about God in the Bible.

I would stand up in New York City and I would get up on a box and I would start by saying, I can answer any question.

I don't care what, how hard you think it is, I can answer any question that you have about God and the Bible.

And sure enough, someone's going to come in and ask a really hard question.

And I go, I don't know.

You can answer any question.

Yeah, I don't know is a perfectly good answer.

And they, they're usually their fingers wagging and their mouth just open and go, huh, all right, that is an answer.

I didn't say you'd be satisfied with the answer.

Because I'm not God.

He knows everything.

I don't.

Right.

So I learned in New York where I had this guy that I found out, he would ask, He, I forget his question now, but he would challenge every open air evangelist with some question.

And when I said I didn't know, he went, you know, Andrew, I have seen dozens of you guys come and go from this park.

You're the only one that honestly said, I don't know.

I said, look, give me your email and I'll, I'll research to get an answer for you.

He goes, no, I'm not doing that.

I said, so you're not really interested in an answer, are you?

Right, Yeah.

I exposed what they're, they're trying to suppress the truth and unrighteousness.

And, and that's what I ended up saying to him.

And so that's what I'm doing.

I'm constantly bringing it back to scripture.

That's the goal.

Yeah.

And women can do that.

And look, you're going to deal with some apologetics when you're raising your children.

That's.

Yes, your kids, they ask you why all the time.

And if you're talking about God, you tend to learn how to answer the why question.

Because God said so is not the answer for everything.

But I don't know, can be a.

Lot of the professing atheists and that I know that I've spoken to, the reason they say they left Christianity is because it doesn't have answers.

And, and I would ask them when, when you asked your parents or you asked Bible teachers the hard questions what was their answer?

And they would say, well, they said, because God said so, or they didn't know.

And they never sought to get an answer.

They just said, I don't know.

That's the key there.

I think that's the key that you show that you are willing to learn and go back to Scripture.

You're doing multiple things here.

You're trusting in the scripture to give you an answer, even if it's an answer you don't like.

But you're also showing your kids that, look, we don't know everything and.

But let's go find out together, you know, And God is good.

God that he will.

He will tell you what you need to know for now.

You know, when.

When you need to know it.

When you need to know it.

Right.

There's things that I've.

I mean, I'm still learning Christian over four decades, I'm still learning.

I mean, I had this experience at the end of last year.

My pastor is preaching through.

Well, actually, he wasn't going through his series, but he was preaching about the 10 lepers.

I don't know how many dozens of times I have read that passage in my lifetime, because I read through the Bible every year.

I read it probably three dozen times, and I never picked up that the one Samaritan that returned came from.

The one leper that returned was from Samaria.

He was bringing out the.

Like, here you got nine guys, only one, the Samaritan returns.

And I went.

I never saw that he was bringing out all this stuff because the guy was a Samaritan and how that played into it.

I'm like, that one word.

I was reading over it and not seeing the importance of what was really being said there, because I skipped over one word and ignored it, thinking that wasn't the major thing.

And yet that plays into what he's saying there, right?

That.

Okay, the Jewish folks.

Yeah, they didn't.

Those nine Jewish lepers didn't return, but the one Samaritan did.

Yeah.

Wow.

Is that a judgment on the Jewish leaders that he was talking to?

Yep.

And that.

That was witnessing his miracles.

Like, so sometimes, you know, we.

We can't stop learning and can't stop answering the questions that our children have.

Because when we do that, what ends up happening?

If we don't answer the questions that our children have, they start to think we don't have answers.

And then they go on to say, the Bible doesn't have answers.

Right.

And the Bible has answers when we don't have answers.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think too Just, well, here, here's what I want to ask you.

What are some, besides just.

The most important, of course, is being in Scripture.

I want to also say that there's other things to help us become better, more proficient at having an answer.

So what are some things you would suggest to help people who are just starting out to be, you know, you're encouraging them to be in scripture and to know their scripture, but what else could possibly help them?

So to the question that I said I'd answer earlier, how do I prepare for debates when I'm don't know I'm doing a debate.

I use two, two things.

When I'm challenged with something for the first time.

It's called hermeneutics and logic.

So let me explain.

Hermeneutics is the art and science of interpretation.

We're doing it right now as I'm speaking.

Every one of you in the audience, you're all hearing me and you are doing interpretation.

Words have meanings.

Language has grammar.

You're taking the words in its context.

You're taking the grammar of my sentences and you are interpreting that and you're getting a meaning out of that.

Okay, so it's the same thing with scripture.

When they, with they're going to use scripture, I'm going to look at what scripture says and I'm going to learn how to interpret it.

What are the rules?

So I go, well, you're, you're not looking at the context here.

You, you're saying something and it's, it's not fitting with the context.

When I had the, the Church of Christ pastor come in, we're debating over baptism, whether it saves.

And I'm looking at the context and he's like, but look over here.

I said, no, you can't, you can't jump to some other passage to understand the context that's in front of you.

You start with the immediate context.

That's hermeneutics.

Then I use logic.

Logic is, you don't have to really know.

And I do have a striving fraternity on the YouTube channel.

I have an eight week class.

It's not very long.

And it teaches these two things.

It's basically apologetics and debate how to do them.

And I teach through very quickly how to use hermeneutics, how, how to understand logic.

And if so, if you take those classes, it's four and four.

If you take those, you're gonna have a good understanding of those.

So you could start there and then expand on it, learn more and more on how to do interpretation, how to use logic, it doesn't mean you have to know all the fallacies.

I don't need to, to know.

Oh, that's the fallacy of excluded middle.

Oh, that's a straw man fallacy.

I, I don't need to know those.

I need to know what makes something logically valid or sound or what doesn't.

And when I can recognize that, then I can argue.

I'm sorry, but you know, your argument is not cogent.

Let me explain why.

And so there's not a lot that you have to know with logic to be able to spot the problem.

And that's where most of the issues come up, you know, with the Church of Christ.

Pastor, I just asked him, is Christ sufficient?

Does the Bible teach that Christ is sufficient for our salvation?

He said, yes.

Is it ultimately sufficient?

He said, yes.

I said, so it's ultimately efficient.

We don't need anything else.

Right.

He said, no.

I said, so we don't need baptism to save.

And he.

And he stops and went, it is true that you are a very skilled debater.

In other words, he had no answer, right?

Yeah, because I used logic to show him that his worldview has a problem.

He knows the Bible teaches Christ is sufficient, but he adds baptism.

Well, if you're adding baptism, then he's not sufficient because you needed something else.

Which I said to him, well, is, is Christ sufficient or not?

If Christ is sufficient, we don't need baptism.

But if Christ is not sufficient, then we need something like baptism.

So is he sufficient or is he not?

And, and he just wanted to be off that show that quickly.

I, you make a good point here in bringing up that example that apologetics, stuff like that is also really, really good for discernment, for holding fast a good doctrine and contending for the faith.

Exactly your point about, you know, having anything else besides or adding to Christ for your salvation.

And that's really kind of like prevalent through all sorts of false doctrine, just adding to them.

And yet, if we know our scripture and do hermeneutics.

Correct.

You know, know how to do hermeneutics, when reading Scripture, you are, you find yourself being able to have an apology for an argument for why Christ and Scripture is sufficient.

So I just think that was a great example right there.

Yeah, because how am I rooting it?

I'm going to root it back to Scripture and the nature of God.

Right.

God exists, he has spoken.

I, God is a logical being.

That's why I use logic, because I know God is logical.

And so you first start with God from His nature.

You're arguing from the nature of God.

I can rely on logic because I know it's immaterial, universal, absolute.

So universal means it always works.

It works for everyone, everywhere, all through the centuries.

Loot meaning it is the standard and God's nature.

Is that.

Yeah.

Good stuff.

So I think we're closing up here.

But you said.

Or was that any.

Was there any more other practical advice on how to, like, really beef up our apologetics or get better at it or.

It's just those two things.

Scripture and then reading scripture.

Rightly.

Just don't get overwhelmed.

I say that because when people.

When I'm out on the streets evangelizing people like, oh, man, I can't do like you.

Yeah.

Because I've been doing it for 40 years.

Try doing something for 40 years, you get better at it.

If you're not getting better, there's a problem.

So don't think you have to know everything one thing at a time.

Just if you're learning one thing, your child asks you a question, study that out.

Learn it, Come back with an answer.

You get asked a question as you're sharing with a co worker, a fellow student in school, whoever you're talking with, and they challenge you or they ask a question you don't know the answer to, just study that.

You don't have to know it completely to know it well enough to know what the Bible says about it.

Yeah.

And they learn the Bible more and you've answered their question.

Yeah, yeah.

Women who have children and who have, well, even discussions with your husbands.

I mean, I don't know how many times I've found practical use ever wrong, ever.

Maybe I'll let you believe that because it's only God that can change your heart.

I tell my wife I'm never wrong, and she says, except for that statement.

I never lie.

Except for that one.

Yeah.

It's more than just accept that one.

But yeah.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I just.

I find it.

My homeschooling journey has Start.

Was.

Was the impetus to Starting my apologetic journey.

And I mean, it's not to say that only homeschoolers will be brushed up on their apologetics, but I think there's a lot of women who have their kids in school.

This is this.

I almost think, like, you need to be trained as a mother if you have kids in the public school.

This is something you should definitely be studying and not leaving it up to the church.

Unfortunately, most popular churches are not doing a good job of it because they probably.

Well, a lot of Churches I have found in my experience don't hold to sola scriptura, don't believe that scripture is actually sufficient to be able to equip the children to have a reason.

But yeah, so I just wanted to encourage women that it is something you can do.

It doesn't mean you have to go out there and be, you know, stand on the side of the street and, and be a, you know, like, what do they call the evangelists out there that are in this.

A street evangelist.

You don't have to be a street evangelist, but just in everyday life experiencing these moments where you're helping, you're helping whoever you talk to, whoever you're talking to, go to scripture and understand that scripture is God's word and is authoritative and inerrant and all of, all of it.

And that to me is if you're.

If there's a woman listening and don't.

She doesn't know the words you just used, go study that.

Yeah, there you go.

Well, there's other words too, but I can't think of them.

Right.

I gotta go eat.

Right.

Yeah.

So thank you so much, Andrew, for coming on to talk about all that.

Very encouraging.

Very.

I'm so glad that even somebody as advanced as you would give us such easy practical advice.

I, I mean, what else can we do here but just trust in God, go to scripture and then trust him for the rest even to help us give those answers and to open the hearts of those who receive the answers.

So I'm thankful very much for your ministry, all the hard work that you've, you've been doing in apologetics and stuff.

Stuff.

So I'd suggest women go on there.

Links will be in the description.

Your classes, like you talked about, your hermeneutic class, your logic class and your book are good resources that women can.

Start learning for hermeneutics.

We actually have a 20 week class on the, on it's called part of the striving fraternity Academy has a syllabus.

So if you want to dig deeper into that, go for it.

I still, I do need to work on the, like a class like that, 20 weeks or so for logic.

I'm still trying to work on that.

Okay.

All right, well, thank you again for coming on and just I hope God blesses and continues to bless your ministry.

Well, thanks for having me.

Yeah.

And hopefully I'll have you on who knows what the next topic will be.

Something great.

Yeah, this was a lot easier than like social justice.

I liked that topic though.

That was a good one to talk about.

Yeah, hopefully we don't have to talk about that anymore.

Yeah, let it just go away.

Yes, please.

Amen.

All right, thanks.

Thanks for having me.

Ladies.

Thanks for listening and watching this episode of the Thoroughly Equipped.

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You can go to my website@ttew.org you can connect with me on Facebook and Instagram links in the description below, or email me@melthetoasttew.org Thoroughly equipped as part of Striving for Eternity's Christian podcast community, a one stop resource for solid podcasts that can assist you in your Christian walk.

Check that out@christianpodcastcommunity.org I pray the God of all grace grants you more and more knowledge and understanding of Jesus Christ as the Holy Spirit thoroughly equips you through his written word.

For every good work, I pray you are in His Word.