Welcome to Gear and Beer, the podcast for gearheads, beer buffs, and adventurers with discerning tastes, and the latest addition to the Rock Fight Podcast network. I'm Colin True. I work for brands and makers in the outdoor industry for over 20 years.

I'm Justin Housman, senior editor at Adventure Journal, professional gear reviewer, and a certified cicerone, which is the Italian for beer expert. It's not true. That's not actually what cicerone literally means, but for the purposes of our podcast is what it means. Colin, I want to point out to you I did this. I think I said this last time too, but you're becoming even more like. I feel like you become more like circus tent, like, yard barker. With every one of these intros is a little bit more like, like, or, like, shock DJ type type vibe is what I'm getting more and more.

Justin, I don't know what you're talking about.

Let's see. That's toned down. I think you. This is just my voice.

What do you mean, man?

That's why we don't camp together anymore.

Too much. Okay, I won't do that anymore. All right, well, listen, so when Justin and I started Gear and Beer, we were acutely aware of some limitations we would have with certain products, namely women's apparel and footwear. So we set out to find testers who could take on the stuff that we couldn't test, but more importantly, it could hold their own on the microphone. And that's why, joining us today to talk about two new women's outdoor apparel brands, Branwen and Scenic, are the co hosts of the Shiny Objects Podcast, Emily Holland and Angie Marie.

Fight.

Fight. Fight. Fight.

No, ask the other.

Fight.

Oh. Oh, sorry. Sorry. I was. Yeah, we're on Gear and beer. Yep. All right, we'll fight later.

Do you guys. Do you normally fight on the Shiny Objects podcast? Is that what you're fighting about? Like, you each want the shiny object?

Yeah, we're trying to compete to get the shiny object. No, we just like to fight with Colin as much as possible and try to, like, make men feel uncomfortable sometimes, you know?

Oh, we always feel uncomfortable.

That's what.

That's the. That's the problem with men. I need.

I need to make an appearance on that podcast to. To have that be true. Emily. All right, so let's. Let's start there.

Interesting. Okay, Is this a pitch? It's a pitch right now.

All I'm saying is you're challenging Patio's Rock Flight Network record, and I have yet to make a single appearance on your. Your pods. So just if you want to talk.

More about women's underwear on our podcast, we're ready.

Well, that's why you're here, because, you know, clearly Justin and I wanted to talk a lot about women's underwear. Like, well, who could we talk to about that?

Women.

Yeah, the women that we live with. I talk a lot about. I talk about women's underwear every day, at least twice when I'm getting my daughters dressed and when I'm getting them undressed. So every single day. And I still don't really don't know, like, for some reason, panties feels weird to say to, like, little girls. I don't know.

Why is that still an accepted term in the larger culture?

It kind of sounds like to me, like the word moist. Now it just feels like a little cringy.

I hate it. I hate it. So I just say. I just say undies, which is, is, you know, cute.

Undies. Very cute. Yeah.

Yeah.

Really? I think undies should just be. That should be what a base layer is, right? Like your lowest layer should be. Base layer should be undies. Maybe we just rebrand it.

I think that's.

Why do we need to make it complicated with, like, base layers? Like, just. That's your undies.

Yeah.

That'S the outdoor industry thinking it's more important than it is base layer.

Colin, do you. Do you refer to your underwear as undies? How. What do you refer to if you're talking about your underwear like you're talking to your wife? Hey, have you seen my underwear? What do you get? What's the term you're using?

I'd probably just say underwear or boxers. You know, boxer briefs.

You don't wear boxers, do you?

No, no, no, no. We were all judging giant billowing boxers.

Yeah. Jesus. God. Love wearing shorts under my pants.

I like, I like the idea, Justin, that Colin doesn't know where his underwear are and he has to ask his wife where they are.

Before we talk about women's apparel, a few items for our gear and beer listeners. So be sure to follow and rate gear and beer wherever you're listening. Please click Follow on your favorite podcast app and leave us that five star rating. It truly is the best way to help this show out, guys. And, you know, also you should check out our other podcast. We referenced it earlier called the Rock Fight. That's where we talk about outdoor industry, community topics, adventure topics, and you can find that wherever you're listening to this podcast. And now my pal Justin, I think he's going to Tell you like how you can reach out to the show, you can follow along with the show and all the places that, that we do that sort of thing.

This is my favorite part, Colin, every time. This is my favorite part.

Switch it up. Next time you're gonna, you're gonna go first.

You can email us. That would probably be the best way. You can send your emails to myrockfightmail.com you can follow along on Instagram where our funny little videos get posted. The handle there is Rockfight company and Colin prepares a just a wonderful newsletter every week, comes out every Sunday. And you can get that by going to Rockfight Co and joining the mailing list. You can't miss the, the little, the little tab to click on right there versus join the mailing list.

So you can't. I mean, I guess you could, but.

No, you, yeah, you can't.

It's impossible. Well, let's start with our guests chops and why our listeners should trust their opinions on outdoor stuff. So like let's, let's go through the products you tested and I'm sorry, before we go through the products we tested, let's start with, you know. Yeah. Why we should. We trust your opinions. Like what do you guys do in the outdoors? You know, you tested two brands, a base layer or undies brand and an apparel brand. So take us through your outdoor backgrounds.

Guys, I want to fight to go first.

Yeah, I want that to happen too.

Yeah, fight. Angie, you go first.

Why me? Why, why am I here? Good question. I may have lied to Colin and Justin because I'm, I'm not a gear head. I'm just, I've never been a gearhead.

Right.

I am a cheap original New Englander who is refusing to turn on her heat and instead putting on a fuzzy bathrobe. So I have never been a person to spend a lot on outdoor gear. I've never been someone who will tell you the brands of the zippers or the thread count of the fabric, if that's even a thing. I just like have not, I haven't dug into that part of gear. But as I get more and more into my 30s, I'm starting to get angry on the lack of women specific apparel that like really fits our bodies especially. I have kind of like an athletic body but also like different proportions than Emily or countless other women out there. And sometimes it feels like you're just, you know, the shrink it and pink it method of creating outdoor gear from men's gear into women's fit. And I'm just starting to get angry. So I think I am here to give the everyday outdoor girls perspective. I'm a dabbler. I dabble in a lot of different outdoor sports, but I'm not a specialist. So if you're looking for, like an overall, is this a functional piece to use and also, is it cute, then I'm your girl.

She's being, like, overly humble right now. She's like a mountaineer. She's like a river guide. Like, I'm just like, she just ran 100 milers. I know why I'm here. Like, because you're legit hardcore outdoor. That's why.

Okay, yes, sure, I can. I. I've done some pretty epic things outdoors, I should say that. But also, I'm doing them in gear that is not necessarily even for the sport I keep signing up for these biking races with. I don't have bike shoes. I wear my running vest. I mean, when I was learning how to kayak last year, I was wearing a mountain biking helmet. Kayaking, I don't even think that's safe. Okay, so I'm still on a journey. Honestly, the more I talk to Emily, the more bougie I get in my life, for better or for worse. So, you know, talk to me in a year and we'll see what happens. But right now, I'm still about value. I want it to be cute, but I just more want it to be functional. And, like, why. Why can't we have all of those value functional and cute?

Emily, as the bougie person on this podcast, you want to tell us why you deserve to have your opinion be trusted on this stuff?

Yeah, I mean, me and Angie are both bad bitches, so, like, sorry for the swear words, but, like, that's it. You know, she says we're dabblers and we are. Like, both of us do a lot of different outdoor sports. And the reason why she's calling me Bougie is because I've gotten her to sign up for a credit card so that she couldn't get into lounges. I've had her. I sent her a protein shaking bottle because she was getting frustrated by just mixing it with water. And that changed and revolutionized. Oh, it truly did.

My blender bottle era. It's incredible.

So that's why she's calling me bougie. But I do appreciate really well made products. And I try to be rational with, like, do I really need this to do the sport that I need, I want to do? So that might be for rock climbing, it might be for trail running. Might be for skiing, might just be for regular everyday hiking. Um, and I like to have things that kind of can fit in all of those things instead of getting different things for every single sport. So I deserve to be here because I'm a badass and so is Angie. And we like to tell the truth, so that's why.

God, I said all the requirements. Although I just. The way you're describing Angie, I feel like New England, you may not make it out west. New England might just reclaim you, Angie, and be like. Like. Like, she won't even get it. She won't even get a tumbler for. For a smoothie. She just uses a spoon. Let's bring her home.

You know, we love wearing bathrobes at 4. At 4:35 in the afternoon out here, out west, Colin, don't we?

I. Yeah, sure. A bad time to wear a bathrobe, but. No, actually. And that's. That's exactly why you're both here, though. Your backgrounds are great. You have great perspective on things and. Yeah. And you're. And you're good on the microphone.

So.

Welcome to the show, guys. We're really excited to have you here and be our. Be our female apparel correspondents for. For gear and beer. Let's talk about what you got. All right, so let's start with brand win. All right, so Brin is a. If you're not familiar the listeners out there, it is a women's undies brand. We said undies is. They agreed to term now, right?

I mean, women's panties brand might be a little cringy. So, yeah, let's go with undies.

I think we have to ban that word.

Let's ban that word for the rest of the show.

So Branwyn's based in Bend, Oregon. They produce what they call the world's first and only ethically sourced, naturally sustainable performance innerwear for women. Innerwear is not innerwear. I don't like that term.

I don't like that term.

Yeah, it sounds like it's inside you.

It does sound like that. I don't care.

Yeah, I'm not. Yeah, this is like bodyguard. Like David.

I get it, but I don't care for it. I understand. Understand it, but I don't like it.

So socially conscious performance based Brandwin uses construction techniques and merino wool to bring something new and different to active women everywhere. So why don't you guys run through what you got from Brandwin and maybe your history with merino wool products in the past.

The things that I got. This is Emily speaking. Is the essential racerback sports bra and the essential hipster, which is a pair of underwear. And I. My only real experience with merino wool is in socks. Like, I wear a lot of socks that have merino wool. I think it's a really cool, like, textile, but I don't necessarily have a lot of, like, winter gear with that in it. So I was, like, a little bit skeptical about how that would feel, like, against skin, because the socks that I've had have been a little bit itchy. Yeah. Yeah. What about you, Andy?

I originally ordered the racer back and a thong, I believe, and then I realized before it came, wait, I hate racerbacks. Why did I do that? So I also ordered what they call, I think the busty bra. It's more of, like, a bralette type thing and a hipster. So I tried out two undies and two bras also, though I haven't had merino wool experience other than socks. So I was also skeptical. Emily. I was like, what's the hype? What are this, this expensive wool? Do I really need this in my New England body? And honestly, I mean, you'll. Spoiler alert. I actually think I love merino wool.

Is it. Are these, Are these expensive? I'm looking at right now. The essential hipster is 38 bucks. The thong is 30 bucks. I don't see the racer back, but I believe you that it exists. So is that how. Where does that line up with, like, other kinds of undies?

It's on the pricey end for sure.

75 for the sports bra. Now I see it. 75, wow. That seems like a lot of merino.

Is going to be more. Right? I mean, natural fiber, it's hard to procure. I mean, that's it. That's why Smartwell socks are the big everyone when they, when smart Will first kind of started really dabbling in merino in the late 90s. Everything was synthetic at the time, and everyone thought they were going to, like, go out of business because it was like 20 bucks for a pair of socks. Like, no one would ever spend that. And now, you know, merino has become like the de facto, like, you have to have merino in your line. Right. So I think, you know, it's. I would imagine compared to the, you know, garden variety Walmart innerwear, it's probably a lot more. But even compared to synthetic undies, it's going to be a lot more for sure.

What's your experience with merino wool underwear, Colin?

It's all I wear. Seriously? Yeah. He got the essential hipster yeah, the hipster. And it's.

What's. What. What brand? I know we talked about this ourselves, but I can't remember.

Yeah, I've got. I started with smart. I was a smart little junkie for a long time. I used to be a tech rep for them. But I really feel like a lot of their quality, both in the socks and their apparel, has kind of gone downhill over the last few years. Or it's just. Maybe it's just not quite as good, or I can't really point to anything specifically other than the underwear does wear out faster than other brands. I've. I've tried, like, Ridge. Merino is probably my favorite. I've also tried Wooly. They make a men's boxer brief that is. That is good. But I mean, it's. It's. And we'll get into it when we get into a little bit more of the product discussion, but I just think it's unmatched when you're talking about the more intimate places of your body. Have you. Have you dabbled in Merino on.

I just have the one. The one pair of Ibex. And they. They wore. I wore a hole in them in, like a week. I also don't remember thinking that they were any more comfortable than anything else, but I don't know. I tend not to think about it. Underwear has to be pretty damn amazing for me to, like, in the middle of the day. Think about it.

All right, well, let's talk about the other brand we're talking about, which is Scenic. Not Scenic. I learned that this week when we were interviewed the founders for the. Our other podcast, the Rock Fight. So it's Scenic who's based out of Columbus, Ohio. They launched just this past March. They're brand new. And Scenic is an outdoor and apparel brand for women, by women. The brand is looking to create incredibly functional products without sacrificing style. Something that Angie was alluding to there. So what did you get for them? And, you know, what did you get from them?

I got one top and one bottom. I got the Oasis tank in this beautiful hot pink color. Definitely extra points for that. And then I got the trail mix short. And so these are sort of like cargo shorts a little bit. I forget the inseam, but they're on the longer side of an inseam for being a short. Cool.

And I got the. I got the Oasis tank as well, but in black because I can't rock hot pink. It's not my color. And I got the trail mix pant, which is similar to at least the style of the waistband and stuff for the short, but a little bit more flowy like open wide leg pants but still kind of look like cargo pants as well.

Are you looking at them too, Justin?

Yeah, I'm thinking I would probably wear these trail mix shorts.

You would?

I think I might, yeah. I mean they're, they look like a, they look like, they look kind of like a skirt, but they just look really comfortable. Man, they look great.

All right, well we're going to run through both brands and all the products and get our thoughts from our testers. But before we go any further, I think we need to crack open a beer, guys. And as Emily pointed out, hopefully no one has done it yet because I have a big note in our, I've added to our outline because people keep opening beers prematurely on the show. So.

So that's our fault because we never.

Tell people so our now I'm telling people so our sister and now Will, what was our, what was the assignment you gave us?

Just like I, I think I said something about like, preferably like woman owned or like a former woman brewer if you could find that. So that's what I've got. I don't know about you.

What did you get?

I have a north coast which is we've talked about before on the pod. I think we did the script shots. My favorite brewery, it's currently run. The CEO is a woman and I'm 99% sure that the founding brewer was a woman. It may still be. I don't know if it's still the same brewer, but it's one of the very few like women run breweries. Which beer is it in California at least I got the Blue Star Wheat Ale which is like a pretty classic. Just a standard like half of Isen style wheat beer. It's very good.

Emily, you went na, right? Because you are currently not drinking. So what did you find?

Yeah, not currently. I will likely never drink again, but I don't drink at all. Personal reasons that are too long for this conversation. I love how much the NA market has grown in the past four and a half plus years that I've been non alcoholic and this brewery, Go Brewing, based out of Illinois and Naperville is awesome. I just started working with them through another client and they've been super great to work with. They're not female owned, but the CEO and founder is really rad. My understanding is that they're only, they're one of the only non alcoholic breweries that actually brews themselves like most non Alcoholic breweries might outsource brewing. You would know more Justin than I do. But that was a pretty cool factoid. And I'm having the Sunshine State Tropical ipa and it has like mango and peach in it. I had one the other day. It's absolutely incredible. And it won't silver medal last year at Best of Craft Beer awards. So award winning. Not to brag.

I've never heard of it. Go brewing.

Yeah, Go Brewing. This is what the can looks.

It's a beautiful can.

Yeah, it's a really. I love good branding too, which is so good.

Angie, what do you got?

Okay, so I do enjoy beer and I especially love a very bitter ipa.

Good.

But I have to go sprinting on the ultimate Frisbee field in a couple hours. And I was like, maybe I also go non alcoholic for this one. So I got back from vacation, realized I had pretty much nothing in the fridge except for this Athletic Brewing Company, Hometown Harvest ipa, which I believe is just a seasonal limited release.

I've never even heard of that. Yeah.

Of Athletic Brewing or of the. Of the brew.

No, of that. That particular beer or brew.

I think it's just like a seasonal, it's fall type thing. And then I was like, you know, this actually works perfectly for my pairing today because Hometown Harvest, it's like fall in an outdoorsy area.

You're freezing.

I am absolutely freezing. And the thing that I learned about non alcoholic beers is that they only taste good when they're like very cold.

So very cold.

Yeah. I should probably drink this quickly because it's gonna warm up on like my body and my cold soul.

Well, I did a little searching for what we got down here in San Diego and I found it was an older article is a woman named Jen Briggs, who at the time was the CEO of Modern Times Brewery.

Yeah.

Which is a pretty well known San Diego brewery. She has moved on to now go to the another local brewery called Carl Strauss and is now the. I don't know, per LinkedIn. Anyway, she is the CXO. I'm not sure if she what she's doing exactly for them, but she is there now. So kind of a local female beer legend. So I went searching for some Karl Strauss beers and to pay tribute. Anybody listen to our episode of the Rock Fight? When Angie and Emily joined me on there, they asked me about what my favorite candy was. So this is the Karl Strauss Peanut Butter Cup Porter.

Ooh.

So I was just like, wow. I wasn't going to go with a porter, but I saw the peanut Butter Cup I'm like, well, we got to try that.

That's really good. I know.

I'm excited.

I love the through line, Colin. That's great. Or the true line.

Oh, shoot.

This is why she's the brain.

Well, we're gonna wrap it up there, Everybody can't do better than that. Well, should we crack these open?

Let's do it.

All right.

Did we do it on three?

I think if we had done before before, Justin.

Oh, no.

All right, here's our three.

Or on four, three.

On three, two.

There we go.

Cheers.

Cheers. That was on one, though, so that was very confusing.

This is like some good asmr. Like, let me get a.

It sounds so good when you open cans on, like.

Yeah, this is. I don't know who would ever drink 16 ounces. They should serve. This should be, like, in a little tiny can. I could not just sit here and drink this whole thing, but it is delicious.

I would. I would absolutely drink that entire thing.

Hell, yeah.

All right, let's dig into Branwyn. So, you know, we talked about what the garments you tested. Let's get into what. Just kind of general thoughts. Emily, why don't we start with you? What did you think about the stuff you got from Branwyn?

I need to lay out a caveat about undies making. Making everyone comfortable with that word. I don't believe in the usage of these prison trousers called undies. I think they're super constrict, and I'm not always going to wear them.

The podcast is taking an odd turn. Okay.

I don't like them very often. I do wear them for rock climbing because the pants that I have for that are in, like, the harness and stuff. It kind of like, you kind of want some extra layer there, but most days I don't. So my opinion, I think, for at least the bottoms is like, I just felt like I was feeling them too much. It's kind of a weird review, right? Like, I just think that if I probably wore prison trousers all the time, I would pts. Pts, as they're called. I would probably, like, be more used to it and like it more. So I think the bottoms, for me are probably a no, but I could see them being great for someone who's, like, wears prison trousers all the time. But I will say the top, the bra, I first put it on, and I was like, cool. Like, yeah, it definitely has a wool texture, but softer than other stuff I've experienced, for sure. But I think the great thing about a good bra is that you don't realize you're wearing it and you're, like, not thinking about it at all. So obviously, like, I was thinking about this podcast and I was thinking about that in that way, but I was out doing a couple 14ers with some friends the first day I wore them. Wore it. And it was great. Like, I didn't feel it at all. I felt super controlled and intact when it comes to the boobies. And you didn't think you'd hear the word boobies on this video?

Yeah, I expected that we would.

Great. Perfect. So the boobies are intact and super, like, not swinging around. This is the weirdest podcast I've ever done.

You're making it weird.

There's totally, like, ways to, like, talk about this.

Just say it confidently. Your boobs weren't trousers.

Boobs weren't. I would hate that. I know. I would hate that myself. I would hate if my boobs are swinging around.

My boobies were not swinging around, and I didn't. I just felt, like, great. Like, they're super intact. They're not, like, it's not bothering me. It feels, like, super secure. Um, yeah, I loved the. The sports bra one. Um, but, yeah, I just think the undies for me are, like, with the caveat of my general ideas about underwear might just not be a product for me.

Did you try them while you're climbing ever, like, the pts that. That you use them in an active setting?

Um, yes. I wore them the same day I did the 14ers, so I was, like, hiking slash trail running. Um, and then I wore them again for a climbing day, and both were. Yeah, just a little uncomfortable for me.

Got it.

Yeah.

What'd you think, Angie? Feel free to be less graphic than your partner.

I definitely.

I'm gonna put myself on mirror.

I do wear underwear, and I see where you're coming from, Emily, because over a decade ago, I was also anti prison trousers. And honestly, after years of raw dogging it, there were just too many times where is that not the phrase I think people use raw dogging for everything now, but after raw dogging.

Yeah, no, it's really become. Yeah, it's really kind of evolved beyond what I think the original expression, my.

Life without prison trousers. Honestly, it just got to a point where, like, I think there were too many peaks. Like, I mean, you're wearing running shorts that are too wide. And I was just like, this isn't comfortable anymore. It feels more exposed and, like, chafing possibilities. So I started wearing underwear about 10 years ago, and I have never tried merino wool or any wool underwear. I'm sold. I'm sold. Because one this didn't budge. I was looking at them and it again, I have the thong and the hipster and they both seemed like they had a lot of material and I was expecting it to bunch up a little bit or have too much fabric. They didn't budge at all. I love that they are room temperature to the touch, if that makes sense. You know how some fabrics feel cold, some feel more hot. This one just seemed to be like, okay. Skin temperature just blends right into my body. And I liked them for camping because I can go swimming in them. They'll dry, it's fine. It's like, you know, wet cotton, just like it sucks in multiple ways. I also liked them for the front country because full transparency. I got a wax like the day that I got my underwear in the mail and I was like, oh, like maybe this is a nice, less irritating material. And it was. I didn't have irritation. So front country and back country, the underwear passed the test for sure. You want me to go right into the booby prisons?

Let's do it. This is the greatest podcast that's ever been trying to say.

If I want to make a joke about front country and backcountry right now, I don't think I'm going to. Let's just move on. Let's move on.

Yeah, I think that's for the best.

I would say my caveat with when it comes to everything bras is I have a very small rib cage and not small boobies. And I think we. I'm going to just talk about this because I think it's important to normalize, you know, how we're just grown up thinking there's like A cups, B cup, C cups, and like, if you're huge D cups, that is not where the Alphabet ends. You keep going, I am a pretty proportional 57 woman. You wouldn't necessarily, like, look at me and be like, oh, she's huge boobies. But I do have a 32F or a 32G and most stores don't carry those letters. So I was nervous. I was like, there's no way I'm going to like these sports bras again. The racer back, which usually hurts any type of racer back puts just like too much pressure when it's holding everything up. And then I got the busty bra, which is again, more of like a low impact style bralette. I am shocked that I actually really enjoyed the racer back. They. I think they called it medium or high Impact. And I was like, there's no way it's going to contain everything. Keep it intact. As Emily would say. I would never usually wear a racer back while running. I cannot believe it. But I actually went for a couple easy jogs, had no problem with the racer back. I really enjoyed it and it looks way cuter than a lot of the grandma bras that I end up having to buy. Like most of my sports bras look like grandma bras. They don't look like sports bras because I can't usually just do the single piece of fabric, pull it over and call it done. So I was really surprised with that. I also really loved it for biking and hiking because a lot of, a lot of biking and hiking and other outdoor gear comes in racer back form, like for tank tops. And I always hate that my bra straps are showing through it because my sports bras aren't usually racer back. So I loved how this one actually looked with clothes. I loved that again, you can go swimming with it, use it as a swimsuit, keeps you warm, the temperature, all of that in queued. So really liked that. It did give me slight uniboob, but not as bad as other racer backs have in the past. And actually that's something I would love to talk about.

I was just going to say, I mean, I obviously know what you're trying to say, but I've never heard that term and I'm struggling to picture it. Can you maybe he's just like googling uniboor?

I don't want to google that.

Okay, so I'm not like sports bra expert, right? But there are several things that they keep in mind when designing sports bras. And one of them is compression. The idea being that if they use really tight material, it can kind of suck everything in to keep you from bouncing. Unfortunately, when you're using that compressive material, it flattens and spreads everything. And that just makes it so that instead of having like a cup and a cup, you just have one like expanding shape of jiggliness in front of you uniboob. Like you can't delineate between the two and it's just like not flattering. Again, especially when you're pairing it with some of those more athletic style tops, tank tops and T shirts. It can, if you have uniboob the fabric on your shirt content out a bit. It's just not. It doesn't feel comfortable, it doesn't look comfortable. So I still think this one had uniboob for my particular size. However, the Band did not. So when we're talking about bras, right, we have the cups and we have the band. The cups is where the boobies go. The band goes around the rib cage. Typically when I'm wearing something like this that comes in standard sizing, small, medium, large. The rib cage ends up being too big for the size of the cups that I need. This, this band, the around my rib was actually great. Did not budge at all. Which meant no chafing. And I actually get chafing in most of the sports bras that I wear. Like sometimes very painful chafing.

Merino is great for no chafing too, by the way. That's what's one main reason why I've switched over to fully wearing merino on totally.

And I mean that was kind of my conclusion was like, okay, I'm not going to wear this on my hardest runs, but skiing, biking, camping, hiking. I really, truly would wear this a lot because the it's just not going to chief, I don't think. And it looks cuter even if I still have the slight uni boob. Maybe some people are into that, I don't know.

I do want to just say, I mean like, you know, we're obviously laughing and it's and it is a funny conversation to have, but it's like this is all. I think some of this is the weird American way that we approach these topics. And I remember even working retail over 10 years ago and we would have full on store clinics at like sporting good stores and women or people would come in to do clinics on sports bras. Like here's how you fit it and you should know how to fit it. And these are the actual challenges. And it's just kind of this unspoken of thing. To Your point, it's 2024, right? These are real things. Everyone wants to be active. We're more accepting of body types and who people are than ever. And yet it's still a weird conversation that like you have a tough time finding a solution for these things, right? So I think it's got, it's still.

An important conversation and I wish that brands would. I, you know, I don't have a manufacturing background, so I, I don't know if this is really plausible, but I wish that there were a way for brands to have more customization of sizes. So instead of custom fit everything, what if they just had, you know, their usual extra small through extra large or whatever. Extended sizing too for cups and for bands and then you can put the two together for your fit because normally I would. If I could do that, I would get a small band and a medium to large cups. They don't make things like that standard in standard sizes. So if there was a way, I mean I know certain shoe brands are working more with that and customizing your fit based on two or three dimensions. What if we could do that for underwear and bras? That would be a game changer.

Yeah.

The funny thing did you guys and last before we move on to scenic in a second. But the thing about that I find my favorite thing and most people's favorite thing about merino wool is it's naturally antimicrobial. And what that means is that's because it is truly hair. Right? It is from a. The way it moves moisture is in the vapor state. So actually instead of like if you are synthetic, it waits till there's a bead of moisture on your skin before it absorbs it and moves it, which allows bacteria more time to set up. So that's why synthetic gets stinky. No matter how much amount of antimicrobial is on it, it will still get stinky. You will overwhelm it at some point. Wool is constantly pulling that moisture away. And even though if it holds onto a little longer, the wind it dries, it doesn't hold onto that odor. And I think that's another thing that is a huge plus for Marino and frankly worth sometimes the price, whether it's socks or underwear, is the lack of stinky undergarments, especially if you're going to.

Be outside for a while.

So what do you got, Emily? I see you're smiling over there.

I just think you are such a smart cookie. I've not seen the side of you with all your textile information.

Don't let him. Don't let him get started. I mean, that's the one thing.

Sorry. Moving on.

Anybody else?

Sorry.

I like.

I like wool. All right. Justin either brand when follow ups or are we.

Do we want to avoid no other.

I want to hear what Justin has to say.

I just feel like there are so many times I don't think I could deal with all the. That you have to deal with like when it comes to like everything about your life. When I say you I mean just women in general. Like, there's no like the last thing I want to have to do is think about like another item of clothing that I've never thought about before, which is a bra. Like just thinking about because I'm. I'm built kind of weird, you know, and so I'm sure I would have a bunch of weird issues with it. And then like now I have to deal with like something else that might chafe. Like, fuck, that sounds awful. Like I just, it just sucks.

I just know you're tall and skinny, right? Like your body proportions is more medium but your height makes you wear a large, right?

Well, yeah. And like my wife is 6 foot 3, so she's like constantly having issues finding clothes. So she doesn't wear men's clothes. But she, you know, like it's just if she finds a brand that makes something long, that's like her favorite thing in the world. And I've, you know, I talked to some forget who it was. I was like the main apparel designer at Mountain Hardware a few years ago about this. I was like, my wife loves your stuff, but I mean she can't like most like your men's larges aren't really long enough for her legs often. And she's like, yeah, I bet that's true. But like we're not going to make clothes for like the 1% of people that are or you know, 1% of women that are over 6ft tall. Like it just wouldn't make any sense for us. Like we can't do one offs of that sort of stuff. It's like, yeah, I guess that's true. But.

Well, I just want to give one shout out. Like in reaction to what you're saying. We have a friend, Andrea Kelly, who is an independent size inclusivity consultant and she works with outdoor brands to help them figure out why it's a good revenue idea to become more size inclusive and that might be tall, like larger sizes, different structures to different garments. So if brands are listening and they want to work with someone who can help them with that, there is a huge revenue upside to increasing the inclusivity of your size.

That actually would be an interesting episode.

Colin, I was just thinking the same thing. Can you put us in touch? That would be a great follow up.

Yeah, go to makeplus equal.com okay.

Make+equal.

Okay.

That's a cool name.

That's great because. No, because I mean you only know what you know, right? And it's also in a lot of things these brands do come down to the spreadsheet and what says you're going to be profitable?

So I'm also just. Well, yeah, I just, I'm all just to kind of go back to what I was saying before. I'm also just becoming acutely aware of like how much of like a pussy, like most like men are about these kinds of things because I just like we would be bitching constantly about something that's chafing or like, these aren't holding my boobs. Right? I mean, we talk about balls and underwear like that all the. All the damn time. You know, it's obviously similar sort of thing, but I just. Yeah, like, don't give us another thing to like get. Get annoying about because we'll do it. So. Yeah.

Yeah, you already have the man cold. You don't need more things.

That's a real thing, Emily.

No, it's not. No, it isn't. Nope. Don't get me started. All right, shall we move on?

All right, let's move on to. Excuse me. To Scenic. All right, so what did you guys get from Scenic and what did you think? What we talked about what you got? But tell us about. Tell us what you thought about Scenic.

So the Oasis take this is one it actually to me, even though it's like a fashion Forward brand. And so I pull up the scenic website and it's immediately screaming fashion Forward gen Z. And I was like, oh, no, I don't know how this is going to go for me. A lot of the apparel, I mean, yes, I believe that it's like functional and can be technical, but it was just like screaming like, I'm into fashion and like I'm in a bathrobe. Again, I'm not into fashion. I wish I were. Maybe I'm getting a little bit more into fashion. So I appreciated that. The Oasis tank just looked like it wasn't trying too hard to be high fashion, if you know what I mean. It still looked like sporty apparel, something I would normally wear. But then when I got it, it was actually kind of like it made me feel kind of like fashion athletic in a way that usually I'm just like, this is just for function. But I thought it was really cute. So again, hot pink tank, it goes. It's one of those ones that the cut moves in a little bit so you get a little bit more like skin exposed on the sides, which for again, like big boobed girl, that's very risky. So I try it on. Boobage spilling on the sides, not so good. The thing is that this Oasis tank isn't really made to be worn with a sports bra. It's meant to have a like built in bra. And I was like, there's no way I'm not going out of the house like this. So I paired it with my Branwen racer back. So at least I wasn't having Straps showing. The problem with that was that there's. It's an open back oasis top so you could see the brand went through it and it just. It just didn't work. So I would say probably for small to medium sized boobs, it would look super cute. Big boobs. It wasn't like, ideal, but I took it out for a few test spins and my partner, when he first saw me in it, said, oh, it kind of looks like alter universe Angie who, like, lives in the city. And I was like, okay, so it's not really me. And he was like, yeah, but like, you know, it's fine, it's fine. But then I noticed throughout the day, he started just like, complimenting more. He was like, touching me and just like saying how nice and smart I am. And I was like, is this shirt working magic on my relationship? And he told me at the day how beautiful I was and how the shirt was really growing on him. So I guess if you're on the fence and looking for an ego boost, this might be the shirt for you. But again, if you have big boobs, you're not going to be able to wear it in maybe its intended form.

Wow. Holy cow. Magic garment. What was your experience with it, Emily?

I similarly looked at the website and was like, this is way too cool for me. I cannot wear this. I just recently feel like I know what five outfits to wear to make me look somewhat presentable, but also not trying to be super young and cute. So I'm in a weird place with my fashion journey, so I was, like, willing to give it a try, obviously. And similarly, we both have sweet, sweet men in our life and they're very kind to us and they're going to fall in love with each other. We're just waiting for them to meet, but. And I opened up the package specifically for the pants. Yeah. So sweet, man. Andrew, my partner, my fiance now. Oh, boy. Is. Yeah, everyone cringe. He saw me take the trail pants out and they're kind of like this, like, mint green color a little bit. And so again, like, not really my color, but I know that color is really popular amongst the cool kids. I took them out and I was like, oh, my God, like, I'm never going to wear these. And he was like, well, you don't know. Just like, try them on, see what happens. You know, like, maybe you'll like them. Maybe you'll figure it out. So we had a friend visiting and we were going out to dinner and I was like, you know what? Tonight's the night I'm going to try out my Gen Z outfit and see how it looks, put it on the tank top and the pants together. And I was like, I am the coolest bitch in this place right now. I am so cool. And I felt really good, especially in the tank top. I like the open back for me, I have way smaller boobies and Angie. So it, it's fine for me as like a full bra and tank top. I don't think I necessarily would like hike in these clothes. Like the tank top I would probably wear to yoga or maybe to like a light climbing session or something, but probably not for when I need like real boob support. And in that case, I would use probably the Bronwyn bra for that. So I think like, they look really cool. The pants are made really well. Like, I'm excited to wear them again. I think they're very cool looking and the design of like the cinch of the pant is very cool. It's like very different from anything I've experienced. It kind of has like a button and a snap and a couple different things that were just like unique in that unique scenic.

I love hearing that there. That it was almost the casual use of it that was kind of really that, that shone through. Because when I spoke to the founders, I told them like, I always, you know, every brands forever have been doing the whole like, you could wear it on the trail and you can wear it to the bar thing, right? And I'm like, yeah, great, I'll just bring an extra shirt with me in the car and change and then I won't have to wear my stinky clothes. But the fact that like, these clothes, like, obviously they're built well and look good and are made of fabrics that will. You could go do the active things in them. But the fact that you're like, I looked the best of everybody in this outfit, like, speaks so much about like.

This man and these products trail to town.

Also, maybe I'm too cocky for my own good. I would also say too, like, this reminded me of the point that we talked about Colin, like many episodes ago and on the rock fight of Mount yeah, we don't need the perfect gear for every single thing that we do. Like, it is not necessary for our enjoyment of the outdoors. And so it also forced me to think, well, okay, I don't need to be so precious with like the things that I wear for every single instance of this. So I think that's a good reminder too. And so like, I could definitely see people who like, aren't as precious. Like, enjoy those trail pants and use them on the trail. Like truly, I think a really comfortable and like fast drying I think too. So yeah, that was my reaction to them.

Angie, how about the shorts?

The shorts were very Gen Z. Again, they were comfortable but weird. Right? Like the bagginess to me seemed excessive and I understand that they made that as a way to be anti chafe. And it's true, I didn't really chafe in them, but like, I just, there's too much material on them for me to feel comfortable running or biking or hiking. So I brought them to Europe where I would fit in more because they're, you know, 20 years ahead of fashion over there and I've actually felt they were, they were quite comfortable. I think my qualms with it is like, there's all these little fabric loops on the pockets that are meant to be maybe some sort of like cargo holding, like functional. I could not find a function for them. I'm like, I'm not going to put carabiners on these little webbing straps on my pockets. Belts. I hate when belts come with pants like this. Reminds me of like seventh grade. I'd go to Kohl's and get jeans that came with a big sparkly belt. And I just, I feel like they just never really work. Belts should be a separate. Just make belts. Right.

But overall, would you guys say generally happy with Branwen and scenic?

Yeah, I think so. Like, I, I'm excited to wear the Bronwyn Branwen. I like Bronwyn.

Me too.

I just like that name and sports bra a lot more. I think that's really great, actually. I think I wore it this morning for my run. Yeah. And I'm excited to be the hottest bee anytime I go out in this college town that I live in and show these Gen Z girlies what it looks like to be in your mid-30s and still try to be cool.

I actually did consider this. I was like, two new brands. I would have never bought these had Colin not thrown them upon us. And I was like, this deserves a bit of reflection. And my concluding statement is this. I love that we are starting to see more female only female focused brands and brands that are especially pushing past what we've traditionally called outdoorsy. So yes, some of these styles are not my style and maybe more fashion forward. But if that's what's making people feel more joy when they go outdoors, to me that's a huge win. Because when people feel good outdoors, they want to protect the outdoors and maybe Fashion is an avenue where we are able to get people caring more about the environments that they're spending time in. And like hell yeah. So good for you. Branwyn and Scenic slash scenic.

I couldn't agree more. I mean we like even in the. On the men's side, you know, like I. Colin, I talk about this all the time where like I hate technical clothes. I mean I have a bunch because I've just from doing gear reviews. But like I don't really ever want to wear it if I was backpacking. Yeah, I'm not going to wear denim but like when I do most of my like car camping and stuff like that now like I, I'm so much more open minded about what I'll wear. Like I'll bring jeans, you know, like I'll bring a wool jacket. I'll bring a cotton jacket. Like it just. I like this. I feel good in this. I feel like I, you know, same way like you like to dress up to do anything. It's like I feel better in this than I would otherwise. And I don't care if it's not Gore Tex or if it's not whatever, you know, sil nylon or whatever the hell like I'm supposed to be wearing out here. It doesn't, it doesn't matter. And I feel more like myself and I feel have more fun. So.

Yeah, well, I'll send you a wolf long next time and you can report back.

I'll try it.

Yeah, that would be the experiment.

Any port, any port in a storm, you know, like if you're out there, you've been out there for a few days and you're running low in underwear. I would absolutely throw a thong on if it was that or nothing.

Totally.

Although Emily, it's interesting. I mean I feel like I was gonna ask Colin like, Colin, did you ever have like a long period of commando like where that was like a. You're just like I fucking. I'm not wearing anywhere for like a long time.

It was more related to like doing laundry probably if, if I did.

You know they call it raw dogging these days. It's not commando.

Yeah, sorry. Raw dogging everything.

Well, let's raise our beverages, guys. There's the final sip. Everyone enjoying their beers? Thank you. Thank you for our. Our new female testing and correspondence. What should we do next? What's the next. The next. We do women's backpacks. Like, what do you think?

Backpacks? I think we're still on a vendetta against sun shirts.

Oh yeah, we talked about sun hoodies.

I would say top three sun hoodies, bike chamois, and PFDs for boating.

Oh, interesting. Okay.

I like that. We should do. We can do some more paddling stuff.

Yeah.

Well, thank you both very much for doing some work for us and coming on and burying your souls to two men that you barely know. It's.

You know, Colin, you're our friend, Justin. We don't know that. I think we've really bonded during this conversation, too.

And you've seen in my garage, so that's something.

Well, we can wrap it up there. Thank you to our guests, Angie Marie, Emily Holland. Thank you very much. Listen to the Shiny Object podcast anywhere you get your pods. Gear and Beer is a production of Rock Flight LLC for Justin Houseman and our guests. I'm Colin True, and he's back once again to take us out. The voice of the Rock by podcast network, Chris Demakes is gonna sing the Gear and Beer theme song. We'll see you next time.

We have experienced lots of tales to tell. Just like you're with your pals out on the trail, we reveal. Welcome to outdoor Adventure Gear. Pair it with the perfect beer. Now let the games begin. So glad that you're here. At the break, the pudding, the trailhead, we're going to crack open the cooler and in vibe a beverage where we can celebrate our wins. Those losses we hold so close. The bottom line here is you'll get the berries that matter most. Kieran beer and beer.