Mia Hobbs: Hello and welcome back to series two of the Why I
Knit podcast. My name is Dr Mia Hobbs and I'm a clinical
psychologist who's passionate about knitting and its benefits
for our mental wellbeing. Each episode I interview a different
knitter about why they knit and how it benefits their mental
health. This week on the podcast, I'm joined by Casey
Bernard who co-presents the VeryPink Knits podcast along
with Staci Perry.
Hi Casey. Welcome to the podcast.
Casey Bernard: Thank you! Thanks for having me.
Mia Hobbs: I always start the podcast with asking where your
relationship with knitting began. Where did yours start?
Casey Bernard: Well, I've been thinking about this since you
sent me the questions. I was in graduate school in my mid 20s
and then I finished and suddenly I was like, "I have all this
free time!" I've always dabbled in some kind of crafty thing,
and I started cross stitching and... I don't know what else I
was doing. And then I started with crocheting because I knew
the basic crochet chain from when I was a little kid. And
then I was looking at patterns and looking at things, and I was
like, "I really don't..." I had like knitting envy, I often say,
because I like the finished product of knitting versus
crochet. And so it came after graduate school. It came to be a
thing that I could do, and something that I could pick up
and put down. I have a tendency to fall asleep if I'm watching
TV, so...
Mia Hobbs: I do that if I'm not knitting.
Casey Bernard: Yeah, exactly! [Laughs] Because my husband
would get so mad, he would say, "You've watched the beginnings
of so many great movies." [Laughs] And so knitting kept me
awake on the couch. And then it just got to be a thing where now
it's just part of my life.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah. And did you teach yourself?
Casey Bernard: Yes, this was pre-YouTube so...
Mia Hobbs: Yeah, same! I always say that: "Pre-YouTube" [laughs]
from a... Well, my mum taught me, but when you had problems it
was harder! You can't just look stuff up [laughs].
Casey Bernard: Yeah. And it took a while for me to figure out
which schematic in a book worked better for me. I found there
were some that showed hands and some that didn't show hands, and
when I saw the hands it helped. And then my mom had knit in the
past. But now I've gotten her into it again, and she's like
more obsessed with it than I am. So she was there to help me, but
it took her a while to kind of get going with it too. But yeah,
I just pretty much taught myself through books. And then it was
kind of around the time of Stitch 'N Bitch; that book came
out... that was like early 2000s. Then I took a couple
classes at the local yarn shop, and that's where I met Staci
Perry.
Mia Hobbs: Okay, and you guys obviously host the VeryPink
podcast together. Okay, so you met her through knitting?
Mia Hobbs: She didn't teach you. Okay. What kind of things were
Casey Bernard: Mm-hmm.
you knitting at the beginning?
Casey Bernard: I think I was knitting scarves. So the reason
I switched and I like knitting more than crochet is you can
keep track of the stitches. I crocheted a scarf that was just
like wonky, because I kept losing track of the number of
stitches. [Laughs] So once I found knitting, I was like, "Oh,
it's all there on the needle. I can keep track a little better."
I think I was knitting like... you know, my friends were
starting to have babies so I was making baby things. I never
really enjoyed making scarves that much. I have a few that
I've made, but they just take too long. I find them tedious.
And then I soon started doing weird stuff like a bikini. [Laughs]
Mia Hobbs: How did that go?
Casey Bernard: It turned out really small, and I gave it to
my sister-in-law who's really skinny.
Mia Hobbs: Is it usable in water?
Casey Bernard: Well, it's kind of like, you know, the 70s
crocheted kind of thing.
Mia Hobbs: I always just felt like it would just stretch the
minute it got wet and that would not work well for me. [Laughs]
Casey Bernard: Some yarn has elastic in it, so it kind of
holds its shape. It's cotton with elastic.
Mia Hobbs: Okay. Yeah, I guess it's not like alpaca then it's
just going to hit the floor, isn't it, as soon as you get out
the water! [Laughs]
Casey Bernard: Yeah, I don't think you're really supposed to
swim in it.
Mia Hobbs: No, it's more for like hanging out. Okay. And why
do you still knit? I guess one of the reasons I contacted you
is because I'm really interested from listening to your podcast,
the conversations that you and Stacy have about process versus
project knitter. And I think you're both quite different ends
of the spectrum, maybe, in that. And I've always wondered...
Stacy seems to think that she loves knitting and is a process
knitter and it's almost like all knitting is equal. Whereas you
seem to be more of a somebody who gets bored. [Laughs] Like
you said, you don't like knitting scarves. Why do you
still knit? What is it about knitting for you?
Casey Bernard: I mean, I love the finished project, obviously.
And I think we've talked about this before, that I feel like my
knitting time is a little bit more limited, because I don't
have as much free time as she... not free time, but she has her
own day. She's single, doesn't have kids, she's got the dogs
and the business to run. But, you know, I have kids, I have a
job, I have to cook for everybody, and so I feel like my
time is limited. So I want to accomplish something, which may
make me more project-oriented. I'm also just a project-oriented
person, I think. In my job I worked on projects. I was just
talking about this with my son last night. I could never have a
job where I think about one thing for like 30 years, and I'm
focused on that one topic. I need some variety. I mean,
knitting is relaxing to me. I'm working on a hat right now that
has taken me so long, because I just haven't had the energy.
Then I'll sit down at the end of the day and I'll start knitting
it, and I fall asleep! Or I'm watching TV and I'm falling
asleep because I've just been really busy. But sometimes when
I'm in the morning getting dressed, my husband will find me
standing at the bed, just knitting a row real quick,
because it just kind of like centres me. I just enjoy the
rhythm of having that project going.
Mia Hobbs: Would you knit every day?
Casey Bernard: I would if I had more time. But yeah, I do at
least a little tiny bit, usually. Even if it's one row.
Mia Hobbs: You said you feel like it kind of centres you
or... I don't know if you said it makes you feel calmer. Do you
feel like it gives you other things in terms of benefiting
your mental wellbeing?
Casey Bernard: Yeah. I'm not a good meditator, and it just kind
of shuts everything out, I guess, and I can just kind of
focus on this thing. And I just love having the the tactile
input too, with my hands. And yeah, I like having a finished
project, even if I don't keep it. I think about who I'm going
to give it to and it just allows my mind to kind of like work
through things I'm working on, while I'm working on my
knitting.
Mia Hobbs: Do you feel like the finished product benefits you?
The experience of giving it to someone, or when you wear it, if
someone says, "Oh, did you make your sweater?" or...
Casey Bernard: Oh, for sure! I feel really excited. I made a
Christmas sweater that has a Christmas tree on it, and I'm
like,"Oh, I need to wear my Christmas sweater!" It's the
week I get to wear this. And now, living in Maine, I
definitely get benefits from having all the hats and scarves
that I have made, or cowls.
Mia Hobbs: As opposed to Texas where you were before?
Casey Bernard: Yeah. I knit some gloves for myself last year and
they really are better than store-bought gloves. They are
warmer. They're just better!
Mia Hobbs: Okay, so you're enjoying that aspect of it. Does
it matter what you knit? Does that make a difference? Like
does it make a difference what the stitch pattern is or the
colour or...?
Casey Bernard: I have a tendency to buy the same colour. I find
that I've knit multiple things that look just like the other
thing I knit.
Mia Hobbs: I find I have phases of that. Like at the moment I'd
say I'm in a wine-red phase [laughs] probably influenced by
the season, and then I have other times when I'm like "Oh,
all of my projects are teal! I've just bought more yarn in
that colour!" [Laughs] Does it go in phases like that? Or is it
like overall you tend to knit one colour more than others.
Casey Bernard: I tend to do purples and greens and then I'll
be like "I am not buying more purple yarn!" I really like
black, but black is so hard to knit with because it's hard to
see. I'm working on a sweater right now that's like a grey
marl, like a... it's not variegated, it's kind of a mixed
black and grey. So I've been trying to expand but this last
year or so I've been trying really hard not to buy yarn
because I have so much. I've bought so much yarn or I've
received yarn as a gift and I'm just so behind in my production
this year. [Laughs] I don't want to buy any more.
Mia Hobbs: And the stitch pattern? Does that make a
difference?
Casey Bernard: I like to mix it up. I like to do some colourwork
or I like to do some lace. Staci actually last Christmas bought
me a sweater pattern, and the yarn for it, that's got a little
bit of textured stitch pattern, and then it's got some
colourwork in it. So it's kind of like a mixture of both. But
sometimes, I like to just sit and knit stockinette. I really
don't like garter stitch. It doesn't matter, necessarily. I
will probably not take on a super complicated lace pattern
anytime, if I know that I don't have the time to focus on it.
Mia Hobbs: Sure. Do you have different projects for different
occasions? Like if you're sitting waiting for a kid to do
sports or...
Casey Bernard: Yeah, I usually have a pair of socks that... I
don't really like patterned socks. I like this self-striping
yarn. I've knit a couple pairs of socks that have like the lace
pattern in it and I don't really enjoy that. I like my socks to
be simple. And I even really have gotten to where I only want
to do one kind of heel and toe. So I usually have a simple thing
like a sock that I can just like carry around that's small. Or
just get that done when I don't have focus but I do want to knit
something that I just need to get a row in. And then I'll
usually have something that's got a little more something to
it. More pattern to it. But yeah, I usually have at least
four projects going on, and one may sit for months before I pick
it up again.
Mia Hobbs: You said you gravitate towards the same
colours. I suppose that I have times that I think, "Oh, I want
to knit some bright colour" because I feel like it gives me
a little boost to my mood that day or something. Does it make a
difference when you're working on it? Or are you thinking more
about, "No, I want to WEAR that purple sweater" or whatever it
is.
Casey Bernard: Yeah, so I have this sweater that I'm working
on. It's like a navy blue base and it has a bright gold and
then magenta colour pattern. And when I'm knitting that I'm like,
"Oh, I love these colours so much." And it does make me want
to work with it a little bit more. And you get excited! Like
I love the self-striping yarns. The colour changes and so it
gets kind of exciting to switch to the other colour.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah. So that keeps your interest going. Is knitting
ever unhelpful for your mental health?
Casey Bernard: Sometimes, when I feel like I have too many
projects going on and I feel a sense of dread... not dread, but
I feel like it's just another thing on my list. Like right now
I've been trying to make some hats using a little knitting
machine. My friend has a shop here in town and she asked me to
make a few hats. And it was enjoyable, but at the same time
it felt like a chore. I would never want to do it for a job. I
would never try to sell my stuff because I don't enjoy that
feeling of having to get it done.
Mia Hobbs: So were they like shop samples?
Casey Bernard: No, I just made like six or eight little hats
that you can make on the little crank machine.
Casey Bernard: Yeah. Or, you know, I made a hat for a friend
Mia Hobbs: Yeah. So then it felt like pressure.
that we went to dinner with the other day and the dog ate it.
[Laughs]
Mia Hobbs: Your dog?
Casey Bernard: Yeah, right before we left.
Mia Hobbs: Oh no!
Casey Bernard: He just like grabbed it and pulled on it, and
so it kind of ruined it. When you're making something for
somebody as a gift for a specific day, it was just like
that kind of same feeling.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah, sure. I'm not great with deadline knitting. I
think I couldn't also do it as a job. I think it would reduce the
enjoyment, and it wouldn't be relaxing. Are you gifting a lot
of the things you make, or mainly for yourself?
Casey Bernard: No. I mean, sometimes I'll knit something
and maybe the socks come out a little too big, and I'll give
them to a friend. Or while I'm knitting this hat that I'm
working on that's taking forever, I'm thinking about
giving it to a friend, just because I have a lot of hats and
I thought she might like a hat. I've knit for my husband, I'll
knit for my kids. My son wants a scarf so I'm going to use my
machine to make him a scarf.
Mia Hobbs: So they're still good recipients of knitted gifts?
Casey Bernard: Yeah, they recognise the need for it!
Mia Hobbs: Oh yeah, now that you're living somewhere cold!
Okay. I wonder, Casey, if you could tell me about a
significant knitting project.
Casey Bernard: Significant in what way?
Mia Hobbs: Any way. Some people have spoken about something they
were knitting at a specific time in their life, or it could be
when you mastered some certain skill, or it could be the first
thing you ever made, or a complete disaster. It could be
anything!
Casey Bernard: Well, I think about this sweater that I made.
I bought this mohair yarn (this is when I was a new knitter),
beautiful mohair yarn, and there was a pattern in interweave
knit. And I didn't really (obviously) understand gauge. So
I had like an extra 12 inches of fabric on my sleeves. It was
this pillowy, lovely thing and I worked so hard on it. It was
huge. And I got everything right but yeah, it was gigantic. So it
really was a lesson to me, how to do that properly.
Mia Hobbs: What became of it? Mohair's also horrendous to rip
back, isn't it?
Casey Bernard: I know! I gave it to Goodwill, to the charity
shops. So hopefully somebody found it and is loving it.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah. I'm sure they are.
Casey Bernard: Yeah. But I do think a lot about... I had this
purse that I made that was pretty intricate intarsia, and
then it was felted, and I just really love it. I forget about
it every once in a while and then I'll find it. And I'm like,
"This is gorgeous, a gorgeous design". It's got a big flower
on it. So I just remember that was a complicated piece, and I
stuck with it and made a nice little thing out of it.
Mia Hobbs: And you still have it?
Casey Bernard: Mm-hmm.
Mia Hobbs: Did you make it a while ago?
Casey Bernard: Oh, yeah. It's been probably 10+ years.
Mia Hobbs: That's great. I also normally ask about a knitting
high and a knitting low. They could be events; they don't have
to be projects.
Casey Bernard: A knitting low is when I've worked so hard on
something and then it comes out and it doesn't fit right or
doesn't look the way you wanted it to look. But a high... last
year I finished a sweater that's got this rainbow variegated
yarn, and it's a super basic sweater. It's just a pullover,
but it's like a sweatshirt: cosy. It makes me happy every
time I put it on. I purposely knit it knowing that in the dark
winter days here, I would be like, "I need some happy rainbow
in my life". [Laughs] So this rainbow sweater... it's cosy and
every time I put it on, I'm like "I need to make another sweater
like this because it's so comfortable."
Mia Hobbs: Is it quite a thick yarn?
Casey Bernard: No it's DK. It's really soft. It fits me
perfectly, and it just fit the bill, you know?
Mia Hobbs: So that's something that makes you feel happy when
you put it on?
Casey Bernard: Yeah, for sure.
Mia Hobbs: And with the lows, are you someone who will rip
back if it's not looking how you want it to?
Casey Bernard: Yeah, for sure. And there's been many projects
Mia Hobbs: Put it in the naughty corner!
Casey Bernard: Yeah, for sure.
that I've ripped back and then just given up on, and put the
Mia Hobbs: But do you feel like that gets any easier over time?
yarn away and can't figure out what to do with it.
Casey Bernard: Yeah, especially when you're a project knitter
like me, and I was a younger knitter, I hated to rip stuff
back, and I would just deal with the mistake. But now I
recognise, no, you want to have that thing look good and you
want it to look right. It makes such a difference. I'm thinking
about a tank top that I made. The whole back was lace and it
was with a thick yarn so it didn't take forever, but I must
have pulled that thing apart like three or four times. And I
was so frustrated when I was doing it, but I'm glad that I
did because the final product is perfect!
Mia Hobbs: I suppose I feel like I've got more tolerant of
ripping back, the longer I've been knitting. I've accepted now
that that's just part of... like all knitters make mistakes,
that's just how it goes. And sometimes I'll rip stuff back,
especially maybe at the beginning of a project, trying
to get something right. But I often think if I was cast on a
desert island with one ball of yarn, and I didn't need it to
catch fish to eat or something, I would still knit, even if I
had so little I couldn't make a thing. I don't know whether you
would?
Casey Bernard: Yeah, for sure. I would probably start finding
ways to turn palm tree leaves into yarn or something like
that. [Laughs]
Mia Hobbs: Very resourceful.
Casey Bernard: Well, I learned how to do basket weaving a
couple months ago, so now I see, "I could make baskets out of
that!" But basket weaving and knitting... there's a lot of
similarities! You have fibre and you're weaving. But finding
fibre in different kinds of plants... yeah, I would totally
do that. [Laughs] Weaving and taking the strings out of
coconuts and turning it into yarn.
Mia Hobbs: I didn't even think about all of these things!
[Laughs] I think I feel like I'm more tolerant of ripping back,
and that maybe I've become more process-focused in other areas
of my life. I don't know what you think... whether there's
been any overspill from knitting?
Casey Bernard: Yeah. Like I said, I'm a project-based person
anyway, but I've got a lot more patience with myself. And like,
a hat that I'm working on that should not take this long, is
taking me a couple months... it's like, whatever. There's no
deadline. I'll always have something going on. Although my
husband... I'm working on a sweater for him and I have put
it away and have not picked it up again, and he's like,
"Where's my sweater?!"
Mia Hobbs: Okay. But I guess at least he's keen for the end
product, which is also a good thing.
Casey Bernard: Yeah. It's one of those big oversized cardigans.
The Big Lebowski sweater.
Mia Hobbs: Oh, yeah. I guess that is probably one of the
bigger things to knit, isn't it? An oversized man's sweater?
That's a not insignificant project.
Casey Bernard: Yeah. And the yarn is just not super
forgiving. So I think I put it away mostly because there's a
pattern to it, and it was getting warmer, and I didn't
want this giant thing in my lap. I just haven't had the time.
Like I said, I haven't really had a lot of time and energy to
knit. My kids have to get to school earlier here than they
used to in Texas, and normally I would stay up late at night and
I just can't do that because I have to get up so early here. So
I'm really tired! It's messing up my circadian rhythms and my
knitting rhythm, staying up when everybody else is in bed.
Mia Hobbs: Do you need an easier project for times like that?
Reading a pattern, if you're tired, it's just too much and
you need something...
Casey Bernard: Yeah.
Mia Hobbs: Sure. I guess getting back into it is probably a
challenge in itself, finding where you were in the pattern.
Casey Bernard: Yeah, for sure.
Mia Hobbs: Okay. Casey, I always end with asking what's the
biggest gift knitting has given you for the rest of your life?
Casey Bernard: That's a good question. I mean, if I'm stuck
on a desert island, I can make clothes.
Mia Hobbs: [Laughs] Yes! You won't be naked; you've made a
bikini before.
Casey Bernard: That's right! I'm going to pull those coconut
strands and make some yarn. No, I just feel like it's always an
opportunity to make something for someone or, you know, have
that... I kind of feel sorry for people who don't have a hobby
like knitting, and they don't have a thing that they can claim
to be their own; that they'll just spend all their days
watching Netflix or whatever. It just feels like I have this
special talent and special magic, that I can turn something
into something.
Mia Hobbs: Okay. So for you, it's about the magic of the
creative process or the crafting process, that you've got this
special skill that you can make something like that.
Casey Bernard: Even in times when I'm not knitting a lot, I
will always know how to knit. And I will always be able to
help somebody learn how to knit. I can't imagine not creating
something all the time.
Mia Hobbs: So it sounds like even before you found knitting
you were a person who was making things with your hands or doing
things like crafting, I suppose.
Casey Bernard: Right. Like I have my little macrame here.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah, they're amazing! So have you got other
hobbies on the go, as well as knitting, like that kind of
thing still? Or do you think knitting has kind of superseded
the others?
Casey Bernard: Yeah, knitting is the thing because I can pick it
up and put it down, I can travel with it. Like I said, I started
with cross stitch, and I didn't like that I had to get all the
strings out and figure out what colour I was on, and I felt like
it just was... Anything that takes too much setup time, like
sewing to me takes up too much setup time. I like to have
something that I can just stand there, knit a row, get it done,
get a little creative energy out and move on.
Mia Hobbs: I think that's a really common thing, in the
conversations I've had, certainly. When I was talking to
Betsan Corkhill who talks about therapeutic knitting, about why
it's so helpful, it's that it's very accessible. I think a lot
of people return to it after having kids. So having small
children and needing to do something for themselves. I
think that's a common story. And you can just do... you know,
when a baby sleeps you never quite know how long that's going
to be for! [Laughs] You could do one row or you could end up
doing a couple of inches of something or other.
Casey Bernard: Yeah. And I love it for aeroplane travel and all
those times when you're just sitting and waiting. There's a
lot of times when I've been like, "Oh, I don't have a pair
of socks going and I'm sitting here at the doctor's office.
What am I doing?
Mia Hobbs: I once had to wait some really long waiting times
for some appointments for my eye. I was there for three hours
and everyone else in the waiting room's phone battery had died
hours ago and I'd been doing... I don't love just stockinette,
generally. I quite like... Like with a yoked sweater, I'm super
interested in the colourwork yoke, and then it gets to the
inches and inches of just knitting in the round, and I get
a bit bored really? So for my knitting in the evening,
watching TV, that generally isn't enough to sustain my
attention. But it was great for sitting in a waiting room in a
hospital, because then I felt like I'd achieved three inches
of a sleeve. Whereas everybody else was sitting there by the
end, just watching my hands move. [Laughs]
Casey Bernard: Yeah, for sure.
Mia Hobbs: And I suppose for me, I think my feeling of the
superpower is slightly different. It's more that I have
this hobby I can whip out at any point that makes me feel calmer
and gives me a sense of purpose. And that's the way I feel the
superpower, rather than turning something into... using sticks
and a ball of string or coconut fibre or whatever you're using
to make something. [Laughs]
Casey Bernard: Yeah. And it's so much better than scrolling on
your phone, for sure, in a waiting room.
Mia Hobbs: Do you feel like it makes you feel different from
scrolling on your phone?
Casey Bernard: Oh yeah! Scrolling just makes you more
anxious and more frustrated, or feeling like you need to buy
something or all those different feelings you have. Knitting -
it's a sense of accomplishment. Sometimes it's frustrating, but
it's a totally different feeling.
Mia Hobbs: Mm. I was interested in something you said earlier
about the idea that it gives your mind a chance to think
about other things, or almost like process things while you're
doing it.
Casey Bernard: Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's like meditation in
some ways, especially if you're on a long stockinette thing, and
you don't really have to think about what you're knitting. Just
to be able to do that. You can be working on other things in
your head.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah. Do you think you're deliberately doing that,
or do you think that's just what happens?
Casey Bernard: Well, I think that my brain is going all the
time. [Laughs] It just happens that knitting is giving me
something to work on while it's running in the background.
Mia Hobbs: Do you think that's why you find knitting an easier
way to access calm than traditional meditation, because
you are someone with quite a busy brain?
Casey Bernard: Yeah, I think so.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah, I think that's true for me.
Casey Bernard: Having your hands moving, you can see that sensory
feedback too.
Mia Hobbs: Great. Well, Casey, it's been super interesting to
talk to you. If anyone wants to find out more about your
knitting, or follow you on Instagram, or the podcast, how
would they find out about those things?
Casey Bernard: My Instagram is @kc.knits - that's where I'm
more active, although lately I've been kind of taking a
little bit of a break. I have a website, www.kcknits.com - it's
the letter K and the letter C, even though that's not how you
spell my name [laughs]. And then our podcast is the VeryPink
Knits podcast. You can get it on any podcast app. And we're on
Patreon. We have extra episodes for our Patreon subscribers
only. And VeryPink Knits is Staci Perry's YouTube channel
for all the tutorials and knitting lessons you need.
Mia Hobbs: The podcast is a Q&A about knitting-related dilemmas.
Thank you for your public service. [Laughs] Okay, great.
Thank you so much, Casey!
Casey Bernard: Sure! Thanks for having me.
Mia Hobbs: Thank you so much for listening to the Why I Knit
podcast. If you'd like to find out more about therapeutic
knitting, you can follow me on Instagram at
@knittingistherapeutic, or at my website
www.therapeuticknitting.org. If you're enjoying the podcast, I
would really appreciate it if you could leave a rating and a
review on your podcast app. This will help grow the podcast and
let more people know about the therapeutic benefits of
knitting. And don't forget to subscribe too. Thank you!